By Russ Bynum, AP
The Justice Department said Monday that federal prosecutors are weighing possible hate crime charges in the slaying of Ahmaud Arbery, a black man gunned down after being pursued by two armed white men in a Georgia subdivision.
Arbery was fatally shot Feb. 23 by a father and son who told police they chased him because they believed he was a burglar. They were arrested last week, more than two months later, on charges of felony murder and aggravated assault after video of the shooting appeared online.
Attorneys for Arbery’s parents and others, including Georgia Attorney General Chris Carr and the Southern Poverty Law Center, have asked for a federal investigation. Georgia has no hate crime law allowing charges at the state level.
“We are assessing all of the evidence to determine whether federal hate crimes charges are appropriate,” Justice Department spokeswoman Kerri Kupec said in a statement Monday.
Previously, a Justice Department spokesman had said the FBI is assisting in the investigation and the department would assist if a federal crime is uncovered.
Kupec’s statement Monday also said the Justice Department was considering Carr’s request for federal authorities to investigate how local police and prosecutors handled the case. She said Carr has been asked to “forward to federal authorities any information that he has.”
Gregory McMichael, 64, and his 34-year-old son, Travis McMichael, are jailed on charges of felony murder and aggravated assault in Arbery’s slaying. Gregory McMichael is a former Glynn County police officer who later worked 20 years as an investigator for the local district attorney’s office. He retired a year ago.
The father and son told police they thought Arbery matched the appearance of a burglary suspect who they said had been recorded on a surveillance camera some time before, according to the Glynn County police report filed after the shooting.
Arbery’s mother, Wanda Cooper Jones, has said she thinks her 25-year-old son, a former high school football player, was just jogging in the neighborhood before he was killed.
Meanwhile, a man identifying himself as the person who recorded the cellphone video of the shooting said he’s received death threats.
William “Roddie” Bryan is identified as a witness in the police report taken after Arbery’s shooting. He appears to be mentioned in a single sentence of the report, which says Gregory McMichael told an officer that “’Roddy’ attempted to block (Arbery) which was unsuccessful.”
“I had nothing to do with it. I’m trying to get my life back to normal, and it’s been smeared for the last week,” Bryan told WJAX-TV in an interview that aired Monday. “I was told I was a witness and I’m not sure what I am, other than receiving a bunch of threats.”
Bryan has not been charged in the case. The TV station reported Bryan would not discuss his involvement in the events that led to Arbery’s death.
Outside prosecutors were appointed to handle the case. But the McMichaels weren’t arrested until last week. After video of the shooting leaked online Tuesday, the lead prosecutor on the case asked the Georgia Bureau of Investigation to look into the shooting. The McMichaels were arrested Thursday.
It was not known Monday whether the McMichaels had attorneys to represent them. They had no lawyers at their first court appearance Friday.
The leaked video shows a black man running at a jogging pace. The truck is stopped in the road ahead of him, with one of the white men standing in the pickup’s bed and the other beside the open driver’s side door.
The running man attempts to pass the pickup on the passenger side, moving just beyond the truck, briefly outside the camera’s view. A gunshot sounds, and the video shows the running man grappling with a man over what appears to be a shotgun or rifle. A second shot can be heard, and the running man can be seen punching the other man. A third shot is fired at point-blank range. The running man staggers a few feet and falls face down.
Well, now we know it’s bullshit. The entire “hate crime” concept is unconstitutional as hell. Equal protection? What equal protection?
Also, can we quit simping for the AP and try citing a CREDIBLE news source?
“…can we quit simping for the AP and try citing a CREDIBLE news source?”
Agree…however, I think the point is to report on what the mainstream (lamestream) media is reporting.
The GBI are the only credible source at this point. They said there is more than enough to charge for murder, they can’t charge a hate crime because Georgia does not have such laws. The local law enforcement is corrupt and tried to cover up a murder after the fact.
People should seek out the info on their own instead of relying on corporations and Youtubers to spoon feed you. You know they tell you what you want to hear so they can make money. You know they cause drama for clicks and cash. You know they love to race bait while saying they are not race baiting.
Grifters got to grift. That’s all they know how to do. They have no other means of making money.
A charge means jack shit. I can charge a ham sandwich. Get back to me when you have at least a grand jury indictment.
With that cellphone video, I don’t think a GJ will have any problem handing out an indictment…
Only if the prosecutor fails to do his job and offer the full facts of the case and instruct the Grand Jury as to Georgia’s self defense, citizen’s arrest, and open carry statutes.
Honestly, I wasn’t sure until I looked into it, but I’d no-bill it. As would, I think, any reasonable person. When the issue comes down to the credibility of a career LEO with a spotless record over the credibility of a convicted felon, there’s no contest.
Yeah, but you don’t get to educate the jury on the dead guy’s rap sheet. They remain blissfully unaware of his past ‘adventures’ for the duration of the trial…
Until the defense brings it up as it goes to the defendant’s state of mind and the reasonableness of his suspicion. Given that he had personal knowledge of said rap sheet. 1st rule of presenting evidence, never let the other side present things that are damaging to your case in chief, always cut them off at the pass.
There is no defense side of things in a Grand Jury proceeding.
The State presents what it can/wants and it’s up to the GJ to decide if there’s enough evidence to warrant an actual trial.
Again, not something you want to do when you have to then go to trial. Getting bushwhacked by the defense using evidence you already have is VERY bad. If I was a prosecutor, I’d give the full story to the GJ and let them decide. I certainly wouldn’t want to be the guy who took this to trial and lost when I had the out of a GJ no-bill.
Ethically speaking what I’m about to say is very wrong, but it’s also not uncommon. It’s sometimes referred to in legal philosophy literature as “hyper zeal”.
While “getting bushwhacked” by your own evidence can happen a prosecutor often looks at the overall chances of winning the case, including who the defense counsel is. If it’s a small shop, public defender or the defendant isn’t wealthy then burying defense counsel in documentation is a strategy that’s sometimes used to overwhelm the defense. Sure, there’s exculpatory evidence in the pile but without time and a bunch of people to go through the pile the chances of finding what you need are slim.
Even with the time and people, does the defendant have the resources to pay those people to find the relevant information? Just as Mike Flynn about this tactic. It bankrupted him.
Of course, there’s always the option to “lose” exculpatory evidence too.
Hard to do when all your exculpatory evidence is already in the public domain and you’re the third DA on the case.
Not if you’ve calculated that they can’t actually afford to go to trial.
That’s how you grind a plea out of a BS case.
Are you like on the county’s payroll man? You seem to only comment on this story and it seems like an obsession of yours. I get people get emotional about shit like this but damn.
No… I just REALLY hate racist bigots who ignore the facts and the law to push bad “civil rights” cases when there are much more important cases that would love the publicity and that EVERYONE would agree on.
Barnes mentions some of them in passing.
I do love me some Viva Frei! Great mind for legal explanations of complicated issues and a good does of humor to boot.
I check him out every day now for intelligent, “Fact based” perspective on issues of the day.
A credible news source? Like what do you consider credible? I’m not real impressed with em. ARE there any credible news sources left?
serge has this entirely correct, down to the idea that, since it’s the AP, who the hell knows if it’s true or not.
Hate crime legislation exists to recognize centuries of unfair application of the law and targeted brutality/violence/murder against a protected class of citizens.
The fact that you don’t understand that means you are either willfully ignoring centuries of institutional racism and violence, or that you just don’t care.
” Making up for centuries of injustice”. You do not do this by using double jepordy on offenses in this date and age. What was done in the past is not o k now. If this man was shot while he was just jogging down the road as it appears, then these two are guilty of murder and should get the death penalty. The law should apply regardless of race .
Yup, no such things as a “hate crime”, unless there is a “love crime”.
No yin without yang. No up without down. No Coke without Pepsi (j/k).
The crime is the crime.
“Hate crime” is code for “we can’t prove an actual crime, so we’ll make up some bullshit and spin a bunch of racist BS to the jury”.
Sounds about right. The whole concept is so totally unAmerican. The entire goal is to punish people for what they think, rather than what they do. How the hell did we get to that state?
Crimes of passion are a thing.
As a reduction in culpability, not an increase.
Oh there’s a love crime alright… it’s just not called that… and it’s not the kind of love you want…
The guns are coming out. They believe the government is corrupt. They want a federal investigation into the three DAs and law enforcement.
Blacktivists show up at a suspect’s house (even though they know that the suspects were remanded without bail) with guns looking to lynch somebody, but it’s the “racist rednecks” who are the problem. I also find it interesting that another such activist was just arrested and charged with terrorism for making up “racists” who don’t exist.
Well, you are a racist. So they do exist.
They went to the McMichaels’ house because they wanted to send a message. They were not there to lynch them because they knew they were in a cage. It’s a show of force to the local PD, whom were too scared to answer calls from neighbors about black men lawfully open carrying their loaded long guns. The police refused to save the Karens from the big black guns and big black men. The militia went there for the cops, they didn’t go their for the men involved with the murder.
The men may be in jail but their wives and families are still there. I’m torn on this one. I don’t believe these “black militia” broke any laws, with my limited knowledge of Georgia law. But it seems pretty intimidating to the family that remains at the home who had nothing to do with the shooting. If they showed up at the courthouse to protest I would support their rights 100%, but at someones home? This is some pretty borderline shit.
They went there to commit an act of terrorism. Oh, and FYI, the idea of you calling ME “racist” is laughable to anybody who actually knows me. You want to protest? Take it to a public space like outside a legislature or court house. Doing it on a private street in front of a bunch of people who didn’t do anything wrong is basically the exact same thing that the KKK did back when they were a thing that existed.
Armed protest, however legal, outside of someone’s home, is clearly intended to intimidate. But, instead of intimidating legislators, mayors, government executives, or corporate leadership, this is directed at families in a residential neighborhood. Did these protesters have a right to do so? Of course. Did they do so peacefully? It seems so. Have not heard differently.
On the other hand, the shooting happened in a residential neighborhood. That is intimidating, also.
Regarding the ‘hate crime’ aspect: I’ve always felt those laws are meant to be vindictive and have the effect of criminalizing thought and emotion.
The dude that recorded the confrontation has received death threats. Imagine getting death threats, then looking out of your window to see people marching in the street with rifles.
I have nothing to worry about because I did not lynch a man. And we got guns around here. I didn’t start nothin’, so it won’t be nothin’.
If I was them I would be more worried about people coming around at night with a liqueur bottle, a torn shirt and a lighter. But those militiamen were doing things lawfully, out in the open and during the day. They knew the cops were down the way watching.
I was around for some race riots. I have been around when people were murdered for being a certain color. I mind my business and try to be friends with everyone. I have not created enemies.
I am not scared. Why are you?
Why would I be worried about anything? I haven’t studied this case, so maybe I missed something, but why would the guy that was doing the recording be getting death threats? Did he harm or threaten that kid?
Do you feel the messaging is the same for the Michigan protesters?
Yes boomer, the National Guard at Kent State did nothing wrong. They fired on communist insurgents who attacked them. Some people got caught in the crossfire. What WAS wrong about Kent State is that the rest of the insurgents who survived weren’t rounded up and shot.
Maybe they just wanted to talk?
Yeah… that’s adorable. Showing up outside my house armed “wanting to talk” is a great way to get a 50 BMG center mass from my upstairs window.
And afterwards are you going to run out of the burning house or die inside?
Yeah… That’s what belt-fed weapons are for.
Says the splatter of red mist when the real guns begin singing .
You really think the Feds won’t want to join the fun?
You think the feds would support an armed mob storming a random residential neighborhood?
FYI, I’ve taken mortar fire before, a few BlackKK members with pop guns don’t intimidate me when I’m fighting form a defensible position.
“Yeah, Billy! Let’s go outside to have a little chitchat and offer those brothers some tea. Leave the guns in the safe. We don’t want to be rude to our guests.”
I’m convinced you’re a troll account. There’s no way someone is this purposefully obtuse. Your argumentation is indistinguishable from satire.
Yeah, because I’m sure that if a bunch of armed KKK members showed up outside the family home of a black man who had been arrested for shooting a white man, we would all give them the same benefit of the doubt? Right? What’s good for the goose.
How would you react if a bunch of black dudes stopped a truck in front of your path, came out carrying shotguns, and just wanted to “talk to you?”
Depends? Did I just run away from a construction site I’ve been breaking into for weeks?
I wouldn’t be in that situation, because I wouldn’t put myself in that situation.
Pwrserge, I really am trying to convince myself that you are not that stupid. The owner of the property said nothing was defaced, nothing stolen. Do you think constantly posting your version of the facts changes that?
Again, legally irrelevant. The fact that he was in there is probable cause to arrest.
ah, he was just admiring the lathework.
“Again, legally irrelevant. The fact that he was in there is probable cause to arrest.”
Good think you’re not in charge. You are quite selective in what matters and what doesn’t. Actual statements contradict you and it doesn’t matter. You also inject opinion as facts. Do yourself a favor and let this all go. You can tell us all how right you were when they are acquitted.
Plenty of people have gone to jail for killing people they probably shouldn’t have. If turning the other cheek or letting cops handle it doesn’t compute it’s time to check your math. In the end is killing someone and dealing with the aftermath really worth it? People who’ve killed to protect themselves in justified situations say no and have the legal and emotional scars to prove . This isn’t a game.
Under GA law, the only standard to authorize a citizen’s arrest is reasonable suspicion of a felony and reasonable suspicion that the perp was trying to escape. That’s it. If the citizen’s arrest was legal, then everything that resulted has to be seen in the context of “would it be legal if a cop did it”.
This is going to sink of swim on the “reasonableness” of the father / son group’s suspicion of a felony and the “reasonableness” of their belief that the perp was trying to escape.
This is not a MORAL debate, this is a LEGAL debate.
In GA, effectively, a private citizen CAN make a Terry stop.
“Under GA law, the only standard to authorize a citizen’s arrest is reasonable suspicion of a felony and reasonable suspicion that the perp was trying to escape.”
OK, would you please post the relevant statute and cite the pertinent part?
That would make us all feel better about your judgment.
I am especially interested in seeing the standard you mentioned, “reasonable suspicion”.
serge is the guy who felt that the national guard was not just entitled, but actually obligated to open fire on college students at Kent State, including students minding their own business hundreds of yards away. He advocates picking random democrats off the street and shooting them to send a message. He’s a commie troll who comes here to make gun owners look bad by playing a part and stoking reactions.
On the other hand, he’s hardened to mortar fire and lives in a Nazi bunker with a slew of belt fed weapons, so I guess we need to take him seriously.
Or, you know, not.
Miner, I already did. Several times. I even gave you mouth breathing retards a video. At this point, you’re just looking to lynch a pair of guys because they dared to shoot a criminal.
Show up at my house to make “a point” you better make it in the street. One fucking toe on the lawn and you and Arbery can catch up on the haps….
Those fellows have nice guns.
What gun is that?
The guy pacing across the street appears to be carrying a SCAR.
I have news for for chief censor. The government is corrupt. And I think it’s great that law abiding black people are openly carrying guns now.
My only problem is WHERE they are carrying them. They want to do this in front of court? More power to them. Doing it in front of a witness’ house is witness intimidation.
Why is it a problem? Maybe they just want to talk to 2 white dudes you know all legal like just the way you seem to think it OK. For someone who keeps yelling right to assemble , OH I forgot its black dudes doing it. You are only OK if its white dudes armed up protesting. My bad.
Please cite a case where I supported the exact same actions in a residential neighborhood. I’ll wait. You really need to check your racism at the door. That shit don’t fly with me.
Like I said, they want to do this in a public space away from any witnesses they might intimidate, more power to them. The way I see it, this “protest” is no different than the Klan rolling up to some poor dude’s house and lighting a cross on his driveway.
Yes, the black militia has a reasonable suspicion that the resident of that home has committed a felony, participating in a murder.
They have video evidence showing that he was on the scene and had foreknowledge of the crime, he also used his truck to block the escape of the victim.
Because the black militia members have reasonable suspicion that the individual in the residence has committed a felony they are authorized to make a citizens arrest when he exits home, according to you.
Except for one problem. The issue has already been dealt with by the police. There was no murder.
“The way I see it, this “protest” is no different than the Klan rolling up to some poor dude’s house and lighting a cross on his driveway.”
I think that most of what you’ve been putting out on this subject is pure bullshit. HOWEVER, I AM inclined to agree with you on the above-quoted statement.
I can’t say they’re wrong.
Growing up, I was warned by parents, teachers and even a police officer in Pittsburgh, PA, that I (a White person) would do well to avoid certain neighborhoods. ‘Nuff said!
As a white child of the ghetto I got the same advice.
Funny how if with a certain skin tone you get “avoid the….” or “act this way when…” advice they make entire docuseries and write legislation for you and your plight. If your tone differs and you got the same advice it’s “fuck you, it’s your fault, you’re the problem.” I’ve been watched in shops for my skin color, followed home for my skin color, harassed by neighbors for my skin color, had carloads drive by my child self and threaten to do various things to my cracker ass.
After a while you start to think all the lesson of equality and people being the same all over is some sort of disinfo campaign because as an adult those same lesson-giving people like the media, educators and politicians flip a switch and the last thing they work toward is equality. It’s all inequality all the time with them and everything under the sun is a proxy of gender, religion and color. I get that in the natural world there is no true fairness or equality but why handicap generations of children by convincing them there ever could be or that even if there could never be why work toward that goal when it becomes painfully obvious nobody preaching it is working toward that goal either?
It really is dog eat dog out there and the real sum are those dogs trying to convince the rest of the dogs they just want to get along.
I grew up with every race living next door. My first friends were black males. My brothers first friends were white.
We never had issues with any ethnicity. Our parents weren’t racists. The adults were people trying to work towards their own house and car. Learn English and get educated was the focus of the youth.
However, in mostly white neighborhoods is where you would find racism, heavy amounts. So much racism it created a border between neighborhoods and sparked racial gangs. The black people hated the white people for pushing them into a shithole and calling the cops when they passed that invisible line. The cops loved to beat minorities because they could. This divide created racial murders and beatings.
My parents didn’t want us living in an ethnic stronghold unless it was mostly Asian.
The older Asian generation were busy working out in the park, minding their own business and taking care of the grandkids. They didn’t like the cops and didn’t want any trouble. They owned guns in secret. They learned to thrive in the system and pass the knowledge down. This caused jealousy from the white and black people. The black and white people joined together to hate on the “orientals.” There was no “Chinese virus” back then.
How did they push them into a shithole?
What once was redlining is now creating safe spaces. Self segregating is the new trend in tolerance and equality.
Another reason the whole song and dance is bunk.
Gentrification is another excuse. Personally Id be careful trying to say the reason a people is doing poorly is because another people left. As though the people that left took care of the people that stayed.
Im interested to know as well…
How exactly is anyone forced to live in a shithole? Everyone is free to live wherever they want. It’s expensive to live some places. You have to work for it. As a white male, do I get a discount of some type?
I’m still waiting for my “white privilege” checks to show up. Is there some paperwork I have to fill out at the next meeting?
And there are those who want to return to a bygone era of 1858.
It’s a large country, I’m sure you can dig up idiots who want all sorts of stupid things. What hasn’t been proven is that this is one of those cases.
I am wondering when a white man got beat for using the long restroom in America?
I know it has happened many times to black people, right here in my little Podunk town black people were beat for sitting at the wrong lunch counter.
Please remind me whenwhites were assaulted in jailed because they used the wrong bathroom.
Yeah…. nobody gives a shit about ancient history boomer. What your granpappy did because he was a massive commie racist isn’t my problem.
I don’t agree with the existence of “hate crime” laws. They are thought crime laws. I dislike them as much as I dislike “red flag” laws.
Something we can agree on
It’s called PANDERING to a certain audience.
Makes politicians feel good without the blowback.
It’s the Republicans that are pushing for it to happen.
… and they are wrong. What’s your point? Oh, and if you think the FBI is not an out of control DNC backed secret police, Mike Flyn would like a word.
The FBI has been corrupt since forever. They were white supremacists who hated the Black Panthers. They assassinated Americans and caused terror attacks. They are the modern day mob/mafia.
The extra charges don’t really matter –
Those ‘crackers’ are gonna be real popular in prison.
‘Hate Crime’ is a Federal construct, isn’t it?
Would that mean the federal penitentiary?
Some states have their own hate crime laws. Federal have theirs. Georgia doesn’t have hate crime laws.
The Republicans want the feds to get involved. The AG is a Republican, he is calling for the feds. The Republicans governor is also in agreement.
Do you think that involvment is for show or that it will actually result in federal action?
It’s election time. Anything can happen. It depends on the polling.
1. According to a report I have read, the decedent had both a rap sheet, including violent outbursts, and a mental health history. I cannot vet the source, but comments by the family’s attorney suggests that this is true.
2. The new video showing him visiting a construction site, it is true, does not showing him committing a crime. BUT the fact that there was a security camera inside the structure might suggest that there had been prior thefts from the premises, and if that is true, it would support an inference that this person may have been casing the place to see what might be stolen at a later date.
3. the video from the neighbor across the street shows the decedent WALKING up to the construction site, walking inside, and then walking outside a few minutes later. It is only AFTER the neighbor shouts at him that the decent breaks into a run.
The last thing that bothers me is simply this: if this guy w as just out for a casual jog, why did he grab the barrel of the shotgun, and why did he try to hit the guy who was holding it? the police were on their way, and his own violent reaction to the stop had a lot to do with him getting shot.
Assuming that the foregoing is true, and adding in the fact that the old man worked as a LEO for the DA, are we surprised that the DA gave the benefit of the doubt to a retired LEO when looking at the rap sheet of the decedent?
“if this guy w as just out for a casual jog, why did he grab the barrel of the shotgun, and why did he try to hit the guy who was holding it?”
Grabbing the scattergun barrel is tactically sound, it’s a lot tougher to get shot by it when you control the business end and have all the leverage, it would seem to me.
But by the puff of smoke and gunshot, the older one probably had a pistol in play, in addition to the long gun…
Confirmed by several sources and audible on the tape, his grabbing the barrel was in response to having been shot, not the cause of his being shot.
False. Look at the video I cited and the analysis by one of the most respected civil rights lawyers in the country.
“both a rap sheet, including violent outbursts, and a mental health history”
No source, the witches asserted without evidence can be dismissed just as easily. I too have heard there is a lengthy rap sheet, but no one has posted proof so I doubt it’s true.
I can only find where he took a weapon to school, which according to most on this forum is not a crime and is protected by the 2A.
His other charge was for shoplifting.
Gee, he sounds like a real Al Kapone or John Dillinger or Jeffrey Dahmer or Adam Lanza or any one of 1000 other white killers.
Miner… The “shoplifting” charge was plead down from burglary. Why? Because shoplifting has a maximum value threshold in Georgia. $300 to be exact. He stole a FUCKING TV.
Stupid edit button and auto-correct.
OK… Let me simple this up for you illiterate retards who learned the law by watching Law and Order.
The criminal in question stole a TV.
If the TV was worth less than $300 (unlikely) it would be a shoplifting charge.
If the TV was worth less than $500 (more likely, but still not probable) it would be a misdemeanor theft charge
If the TV was worth more than $500 it would be a FELONY theft charge.
So… who wants to place bets on the sticker price of the TV our intrepid “jogger” stole?
“ The “shoplifting” charge was plead down from burglary.“
Interesting clean, do you have an actual source or a document to back up your assertion?
And you still haven’t come forward with the “rap sheet” with burglary and robbery charges that you have mentioned repeatedly, where is your source or citation for that claim?
I would say your posts were just another example of empty speech but I’m sorry to say, they contain much hate and prejudice.
There is video of Arbery at the house that is under construction. The whole video is not shown. At 22 seconds on the sbooting video you see an object on the road. People say it is a hammer, the resolution isn’t clear enough to identify it as a hammer, but whatever it is, it looks out of place. Now I will say it was Arbery in that house. What he did in that house isn’t shown. We need to whole video. Either way joggers don’t enter properties that aren’t theirs. He went from jogging, more than likely casing the neighborhood, to being caught. People called the police and he was chased and then shot. He was guilty of entering that house, what else he did there isn’t clear. As a result of his law breaking he is dead. Not to mention that under his other name Ahmaud Marquise Avery he has robbery, assault and bringing a firearm into a school. This guy was headed towards death for a while. It just finally caught up with him…
What total horseshit. I have entered homes under construction dozens of times, usually accompanied by my wife. It is fun to try to figure where the kitchen is going, how many bedrooms/baths, and so on. No one EVER shot me, including the first time I recall, a really fabulous 3-story about halfway constructed when I was still in high school. Next-door neighbor shows up with a smile, turns out he is building the house for his family, he invites us to sign the guest register (which had hundreds of signatures and comments). Two chimneys, each holding 4 fireplaces, 2 each on 2 floors, so a total of 8 rooms with fireplaces. Still love that place. We were on a double date so there were 4 of us all over that house. The only reason you are so sure that guy was “obviously” trying to steal something is because you are a racist.
Nice story. Did you steal anything in that place and then started to run away when the owner called?
Not every black man shot by a white man (minority of homicide cases with victim and perp of different races btw) dies as result of racism. These cases are very often used as a tool to blow into dying embers of racial tensions. Why no one writes about those 70 shot and 14 killed during last week in the city of Chicago? Not usefull to rise hatred between demographic groups I guess.
Racist is thrown about so casually that it has no meaning.
Very true especially since all the following are supposedly racist.
1) All republicans
2) People who traditionally never vote but didn’t take the opportunity to vote for Obama
3) Democrats who didn’t vote for Camel-toe or Booker in the Democrat primaries.
“he has robbery, assault and bringing a firearm into a school.”
So back up your claim about the robbery and assault charges, a source or document.
And everybody on this forum is all about “I don’t need a permit to exercise my 2A rights”, blah blah blah.
Unless you’re a young black male and then you don’t have a right to carry a firearm because the protections of the constitution don’t apply to you.
“As a result of his law breaking he is dead.” No…. as a result of somebody else’s lawbreaking he is dead.
Man they’re going to go after the shotguns
Too many fudds to tangle with.
Regarding the hate crime, has there been any reporting about the shooter saying he wanted to kill black people? I’m just curious why they would want to look into this. Is there any proof of racism or is it an assumption because they’re different races?
Because evidence shows that the McMichaels are accusing Arbery of stealing their handgun, they are assuming the videos of black males on the construction site at night are Arbery and they assumed Arbery committed a crime when he ran past their house. They also assumed because Arbery had tried to steal from a store two years ago he must still be a thief years later. Because (you know) black people are born thugs, once a thief always a thief, they will never change, it’s in their genetics.
I honestly don’t see how that proves a hate crime. People make assumptions all of the time, even when they shouldn’t. Does he or doesn’t he resemble the person in the videos? I think there would have to be more than mistaken identity. Who knows, they may find out something he said, or find evidence at his house to justify the hate crime charge.
He “fit the description,” according to the McMichaels. Minorities and cops know what that means.
I don’t agree with hate crime laws. They should be done away with. Hate is a motivation, not a physical act. Thoughts are not crimes in a free society that protects human rights.
Dude, you can’t “prove” a hate crime, and you will never be able to unless somebody invents a machine to read minds. That is but one of the many reasons why there should be no such thing.
I still find it amazing that only that “anti-racist” zealots ever hear these “racist dog whistles”… I mean seriously. The father PERSONALLY KNEW the perp from his time investigating him for a felony. (Yes, it got PLEAD DOWN to “shoplifting”, but how exactly do you “shoplift” a TV?)
“(Yes, it got PLEAD DOWN to “shoplifting”, but how exactly do you “shoplift” a TV?)”
Done all the damn time down here.
Enter a busy big-box store and grab a cart. Do some shopping, including loading a flat panel TV you like into the cart. Make your way to the checkout registers, and pause there for a bit. Now, instead of getting in a checkout line, work your cart filled with soon-to-be stolen loot towards an exit and act you paid for it. Exit store and drive off.
The local cops post video down here a few times a year asking the public if anyone recognizes those pushing the cart out the exit and out of the store…
Geoff, a shoplifting charge in Georgia has a property cap of $300.
Well there is no need to prove a hate crime at this point, that’s why we are having an investigation.
If the investigation shows the murderers posted hateful rhetoric or engaged in other conduct that demonstrates prejudice or hatred of a minority then the prosecutors will move forward with a crime charges.
Why is it so difficult for people to understand the difference in motives, that’s the difference between a regular violent crime and a hate crime.
Up front I will say I do not believe in hate crime laws. Punish the crime, not the motive – or suspected motive. In this case I saw a transcript of the initial 911 call where the caller described the emergency as “There’s a black guy running down the street”. The dispatcher tried to get the caller to elaborate, but like the videos that have surfaced I haven’t seen the whole thing. Being the suspicious type I tend to think media outlets only publish the parts that suit their agenda. But should a federal hate crime be pursued, which is probably only going to happen if they are acquitted on state charges, that initial call could really bite them.
Teenage boys with divorced parents tend to have emotional outburst, mental health issues and get into fights. This is normal young male behavior from those without a father in the home.
His past charges are breaking gun control laws and attempting to shoplift from Walmart.
He had been to the construction site the day of his death. He did not steal. The owner of the property said he never stole from him, people are lying about him being a burglar. Racists online are saying he was caught on video multiple times, but in those videos of black males on the property show no stealing, if it was him he had 3-4 opportunities to steal and did not. Black people were not the only race to trespass on that site.
He tried to evade the angry men with the guns by running the other direction. Bryan, the man filming, attempted to stop him with his vehicle. Arbery changed directions again. Eventually Travis got out with a gun and appears to have pointed it in the direction of Arbery. Then you see Arbery dodge the gun by moving quickly to the right of the truck into the grass. When Travis came around the front of the truck with gun pointed Arbery ran toward him, Travis shot Arbery in the hand before he was ever touched. Arbery then grabbed the gun and started punching. He was shot again and lost control of the gun. Travis shot Arbery a third (what appears to be the fatal shot) when he got control of the shotgun, which the DA fails to mention.
Arbery would have not been killed if Travis stopped shooting once he got control of the gun or if Travis didn’t get out of the truck to use/point a gun.
Yeah… I know I would stop shooting while getting punched in the face by a convicted felon who just tried to grab my gun. Are you insane? Take the races of the people involved out of the equation and this doesn’t even make the local news.
When you shoot a man twice because he is trying to take your gun and he loses control of it, you can stop shooting and step back to access if you need to hit him again. You only shoot to stop them from taking your gun, you do not shoot to kill unless you have a badge.
Trust me, you will get charged with murder if you shoot them like a cop would. Ask me how I know?
If he’s still up and in arm’s reach, he’s still a threat. Black letter self-defense precedent.
So called civilians, in today’s America, are not allowed to shoot to kill, they have to shoot to end the threat.
The state’s argument will be that Travis shouldn’t have intercepted using a gun for trespassing. He shouldn’t have been using the gun in that manner in the first place. On top of that, he could have stop shooting after the first two. Not only that, he had two men helping him and one of them was an armed former law enforcement officer.
A dumbass lawyer will argue they were in fear of their life because they were after him for being a burglar with a handgun. That Arbery was a known criminal that had a handgun on him 6 years ago and he tried to steal 2 years ago. That Arbery had no reason to behave like he did, he must have been crazy in the head.
Not what the current GA statutes say. Given what the law says at the moment, nothing they did was actually criminal.
Bringing their guns to the citizen’s arrest was not illegal.
The citizen’s arrest, was not, on its face illegal.
GA has VERY broad citizen’s arrest powers. In fact, GA has one of the broadest standards in the US.
“So called civilians, in today’s America, are not allowed to shoot to kill, they have to shoot to end the threat.”
So do cops. Theoretically.
OK Pwrserge I had the opportunity to talk to an Attorney up in north Georgia this morning about some issues with a property we own up there where someone is logging trees on our land. While talking I asked him about the Georgia Terry law and was told to make a citizen’s arrest, a person must witness a crime being committed at that time and is allowed detain the suspect until police arrive at the scene. And are not allowed to use excessive force or detain the suspect in an improper way as it can lead to criminal charges for the arresting party. And it is usually used to catch shoplifters by stores. Outside of that the risk of being accused of unlawful arrest means you need to have undisputable proof that a crime has occurred or be prepared for legal and financial repercussions. When I mentioned the McMichaels he said those boys are in a world of trouble. He said there since was not a no trespassing sign at the house being built, the owner states nothing was stolen or damaged there and he would not press charges plus the fact the gun that was stolen and reported weeks earlier means they did not witness a crime being committed at that time.
Sounds like you might be wrong.
Still will probably depend on who is on the jury as to which way it goes for them.
I’ll take the word and analysis of a civil rights lawyer over a guy who practices property law.
Here’s a breakdown from a cop. He still fails to notice that there are two standards in the statute, but even then it doesn’t matter.
“When Travis came around the front of the truck with gun pointed Arbery ran toward him, Travis shot Arbery in the hand before he was ever touched.”
*If* that is true, those guys will be in prison for decades.
And oh, boy, are they ever gonna have fun trying to survive in there when the other inmates hear why they are in there for. A once-in-a-prison term opportunity to get some revenge on a cop that may have been the one who bagged them in the first place.
Those two are about to experience joy of a Chinese metaphor of “Living in an interesting time.” I sure hope they make out their wills first…
Shooting a felon charging you is not illegal. They charged murder. There is no way in hell they can prove murder.
“just jogging in the neighborhood”
It seems as though this narrative has already been debunked. The video clearly shows him casually walking up to that house under construction. After spending a few minutes in there, he leaves at a faster than jogging pace. If you slow the video down to .25, it’s closer to real time, and he still bolts out of there faster than jogging. I think it’s important to get the facts straight. If AP were straight reporters, they would note this fact.
Corporate media and Youtubers like to use click bait to make money.
Isn’t jogging and sprinting subjective? How fast can Arbery run? Maybe the pace he was running is considered sprinting compared to you?
We already knew he trespassed, that we known for days. It’s whether he stole or not. The owner says he didn’t steal a thing and he did not report any burglaries. The owner had cameras installed, those cameras are not owned by McMichaels nor Bryan. The McMichaels were after Arbery for a stolen handgun and Bryan decided to help his friends.
I knew he would do this. No loyalty with these kinds of people.
The owner might not know. Plenty of contractors leave their tools on site overnight. The owner would have no way to know if any of those tools were missing since the contractors, obviously, haven’t been to the site in weeks.
The owner has video going 24/7. He is the one building the house.
With no contractors? Source?
Also, irrelevant. If someone comes out of a building that he’s not allowed into, then runs when someone yells at him to stop, a reasonable person would be justified in concluding he wasn’t there for a tea party.
“The owner might not know. Plenty of contractors leave their tools on site overnight.”
I know a few contractors, and none of them would ever leave their tools overnight at a new construction jobsite, especially if the property wasn’t able to secure itself with all windows and doors locked.
Now, one doing a re-model of a home (kitchen, bathroom) where the homeowners currently reside there, yes, I could see that happening…
The construction site did not have ‘no trespassing’ signs or other markings, so he was not trespassing under Georgia law. The police have already acknowledged that he did nothing illegal.
“Isn’t jogging and sprinting subjective”
It’s like pornography. You know it when you see it. Plus, I’ve seen him move at three different paces thanks to video recordings; walking, then sprinting, then jogging. Maybe he was jogging because he was tired? You can only sprint so far. I have no idea if he stole anything. The video of him in the house is incomplete for some reason. They only show the first few seconds. I’m not giving any sort of legal opinion, I’m just interested in the facts.
Hate crimes don’t exist. Hate speech doesn’t exist. These are simply tools to help authoritarians promote discord and disunity.
War is Peace. Freedom is Slavery. Ignorance is Strength.
No step on snek.
Snek is fine, just want’s kiss. Hot snek, doan let kiss.
Sound advice, ^ former venomous keeper/handler.
You like your Herps on the ‘hot’ side, eh?
snek is danger noodle
Used to, currently herp free. Have been for about 15 years, didn’t want young kids around them, so I gave them up. Though I kinda feel an old itch for an African Bush Viper. Always remind me of little wingless dragons. Yeah, others have keeled scales, ‘cept Atheris has prettier morphs. Never had, but always wanted one. :p
Years back, I had a pair of mellow Australian ‘Bearded Dragons’ and a corn snake.
They were entertaining for a few years, and then I gifted them to a kid in my neighborhood. Having to buy live crickets by the case was getting a bit annoying. I raised mouse ‘pinkies’ for the corn snake.
You have bigger balls than I for keeping the pit vipers. At a local herp show, I saw some of those guys, and some of them have really brilliant, stunning colorations.
And the poison dart frogs look rather cool as well…
Nice, had a beardie myself, once upon a few decades ago. 🙂
That was one of my entry gates into the world of herps. Made the mistake of visiting a show in Miami in the late 80′, that did it. They had all the things, and I ended up with a spectacled cobra by the time I left. Pretty typical entry method back then, really.
If any of the background of the shooter supports racism, involvement in blatant racist organizations, fakebook posts, online activity ect then the Feds might have something……I’m not a firm supporter of ‘Hate Crime’ laws as they have, as far as I know, been applied exclusively to one group. (I could be wrong)
I don’t see how ‘Hate crimes’ adds anything to a murder conviction if that’s what happens at trial.
It’s one thing to lose your temper, and commit a violent act. A situation can go too far, words can lead to intense anger, and it can get physical.
That’s one thing, but if it’s an anger and resentment it’s been spread like a virus through society and you are perpetuating that pathogen that’s a whole Nother animal.
Society has recognized that sort of behavior poses a greater danger to the safety of the citizens and has made the wise decision to enhance the consequences for those who practice hate.
Amazing how many people jump in when the battle is already decided. Hate crime laws are ridiculous. Someone who murders for money or fun are less bad and should get shorter sentences?
Hate crimes are designed to give you a longer sentence. Republicans love to add on many years to a criminal’s sentence so they can remain in prison for life over something that doesn’t warrant such a thing.
Maybe Republicans got to stop being racist towards non whites? Maybe they should stop calling for minimum mandatory sentences? It does work both ways these days. You know justice for all? Or should we make sure every time a NRA member uses a gun on someone they get a minimum mandatory life sentence?
When was the last time we saw federal hate crime charges against anybody OTHER than a white perp? Did the BLM Kidnappers get some time tacked on for their kidnapping and torture of a disabled boy?
Lets see a quick google gives us Gregory Alfred, as a name and the 2018 fed statistics give us some statistics.
Of the 6,266 known offenders:
53.6% were White
24.0% were Black or African American
12.9% race unknown
So 24% of the people charged with hate crimes in the U.S. were black.
hmmmmm if you were Pinocchio your nose would be so long by now.
Not what I asked, but thanks for playing.
Well you did state it was never applied to anyone other than a white perp. So I showed statistics with blacks and even others besides whites.
Oh I keep forgetting, Powertemp is all knowing. Do not question the word of powertemp.
Reading is fundamental. I swear, the fact that I command my 4th language better than you do your 1st is depressing.
I asked when you HEARD of this happening.
>>When was the last time we saw federal hate crime charges against anybody OTHER than a white perp?<<
Now how would you decipher that? Is there a form of English spoken by those with such profound fluency in multiple languages hat normal folks are unable to understand?
Reading is fundamental. I swear, the fact that I command my 4th language better than you do your 1st is depressing. I asked when you HEARD of this happening.
No you didn’t your statement is >>When was the last time we saw federal hate crime charges against anybody OTHER than a white perp? <<
The way you wrote this makes it a rhetorical question
Did you SEE any of those cases publicized at all? Ever? The only one I can think of was the BLM Kidnapping. Where the media bent over backwards to claim it was “not about race” despite the perps screaming “fuck white people” while torturing a disabled boy on a LIVE STREAM. (Then got off with a slap on the wrist, most of them getting less than 5 years.) Oh and the fact that black on white crime is 90% of interracial crime by only 24% of “hate” crime is very telling.
Give up the Russian troll is just going to keep twisting words. That’s what trolls do.
You are not just talking to one person he is part of Russia’s troll army AKA Армия троллей России AKA Putinbots. They are known for having lots of fake accounts they use to spread their lies and deception, look up sockpuppets to see what he is.
You’re wasting time with him and if you look you will see he has other accounts that he even fights with himself with.
Oh, shit… the DNC troll is getting desperate now that his master’s plots are being revealed and Barr is about to start putting his bosses (and probably him) in GITMO.
Did you notice how Obama just got caught running the illegal Flyn “investigation”? Yeah… Something tells me that Obama is going to have a lot more black in him a few months from now.
Oh Lordy, have you got him on the run, he just brought out ‘What about Obama!‘
I am now pouring a double Clyde May’s on two cubes, time to relax.
Sometimes the Russian AI bots can be very entertaining.
Because some Republicans tack on sentence enhancements that you find unfair that justifies some Democrats doing the same thing? I am not a Republican so you can push that button somewhere else. Why do you think killing when it looks like race could have been a contributing factor to motive is worse than killing for money or because one is enraged a lot?
I support proper justice not racist justice. Republicans call for putting black males in prison for life on their first offense. I don’t support blanket sentencing with extremely long incarcerations. The punishment should be fair to the crime and situation.
I also don’t like when people are charged with murder when they never pulled the trigger and were not even in the same area where the murderer killed someone. For instance, I don’t think the Greg McMichael and Bryan are murderers, Travis McMichaels is a murderer. However, Greg and Bryan need to go away for many years, more so Greg. Bryan should get 5-10 years.
I don’t like most (none that I can think of) sentence enhancements either. They are usually just political BS rather that a constructive and rational tweak of sentencing. The US criminal system is indeed riddled with grievous flaws, however I rather fix it by removing the flaws rather than adding counter acting new ones.
Um… Chief… You might want to look up where all these “war on drugs” laws came from. I don’t think it will match your narative.
Sergei, so you think the Democrats started the war on drugs? I’m not surprised that you do not know much about American political history, I’m sure the schools in Russia did not really dwell on the American political system so I understand your ignorance.
“In 1971 President Richard Nixon declared war on drugs. He proclaimed, “America’s public enemy number one in the United States is drug abuse. In order to fight and defeat this enemy, it is necessary to wage a new, all-out offensive(Sharp, 1994, p. 1).” Nixon fought drug abuse on both the supply and demand fronts.”
Meanwhile, Nixon was directing a criminal enterprise that sent burglary teams to break into the headquarters of his political opponents.
He didn’t use the power of his official position in order to obstruct justice by shutting down the investigation of his activities.
Fortunately for America, he had enough honor left to resign before he was impeached.
Sergei, just about every single one of your hate filled posts is factually incorrect, I think you’ve set a new record for fake news on this forum, congratulations!
Those redneck’s are effed. Deservedly so. You’d think Arbery whistled at a white woman. Would you white boyz wait on a country road while 2 idiots pointed gun’s at you?!? Didn’t think so…oh Hate Crime is BS.
Come now. Take the races of the people involved out of the equation and look at it objectively. This isn’t the 1950s. That sort of shit just doesn’t happen.
Did they guy deserve to die? Not for stealing. However, he made the choice to violently resist what, he should have known, was a lawful arrest. Would we be even talking about it if this was a pair of plain-clothed cops?
Did a big black man beat you up russian boy? Take your girl? There is NO defense for these redneck idiot’s. You call the local sheriff. Who’s your buddy…
Given the evidence that has come out, I’d say the odds of a no-bill are about 50/50.
The guy was seen running away from a construction site that had been broken into several times before. It’s not unreasonable that the father recognized the perp from when he investigated him for a parole violation on a gun charge.
There are cases where things are clear-cut and the victim really didn’t do anything to get into the situation he found himself in. This is not one of those cases.
Given how liberally the term “racist” gets tossed around, I have zero tolerance for “arguments” that seek to use such an accusation as the crux of their case.
How do break into place that doesn’t even have doors? For crying out loud. Those clowns were in the wrong. I big on keeping an eye on your neighbor hood and not being afraid to get involved. But those guys were in the wrong. Dead wrong and there’s a body to prove it. Adults would have followed the guy, taken a picture, called the cops and followed up. Not try to trap him on the street and jump their dumb asses out tooled up with shotguns to confront him. They deserve to fry. You can’t fry em long enough. It’s jerk offs like this, AND their defenders that swing people over the anti gun side.
Looked at a picture of the site… Yup… It has doors. In any case, doesn’t matter.
GA citizen’s arrest statute is basically a civilian Terry stop. All they needed was reasonable suspicion.
“How do break into place that doesn’t even have doors? For crying out loud.”
If you walk into a neighbor’s home when they left the back door wide-ass open, that’s the ‘Enter’ of ‘Breaking and Entering’ and that is a criminal offense…
Maybe you missed the part where I didn’t say breaking AND entering. Just walking into a building open and under construction just to look around, is in now way the same as breaking down doors and windows to enter into a building. I’m NOT saying it’s OK. But it isn’t the same. And it isn’t a felony. And according to Serge, it doesn’t qualify for a citizens arrest.
Lots of retards pretending to be lawyers on this topic. Look up the statute. The standard is not “breaking and entering” the standard for a felony residential burglary is entering a dwelling with the intent to steal. Intent can be inferred from the actions. Nobody goes into a vacant home to have a tea party.
“construction site that had been broken into several times before”
Ivan, you are now totally in cloud cuckooland, making it up as you go.
Again you are asserting facts not in evidence, and the property owner has said nothing was stolen. The reporters FOIA showed no house burglaries reported in the area for months.
You’re so lame.
Pwrserge you do not live in the south. That stuff does still exist. Not out in the open like the 50’s early 60’s but it does still happen. The crimes like the dragging death over in Texas 20 years ago are not common sure I’ll give you that . Then there are folks like Jeremy Christian , James Jackson, Russell Courtier, who do not live in the south and are only a few of the names that popped up when a quick search was done.
It’s a country of 330 million people, of course you’re going to have a few incidents occasionally. The point is that blacktivists just can’t let their victim status go. If they did, they would have to deal with the fact that their culture is shit, their crime rates are atrocious, and they sold any political power they might have wielded for a chunk of government cheese.
So if I think that maybe you committed a crime, I can stop you while armed and then fatally shoot you if you take issue with me threatening your life?
That’s what I’m saying… YES. That is currently the law in Georgia. The standard that will be applied is the reasonableness of your suspicion. They basically took Terry and applied it to citizen’s arrests.
You may not like that this is currently the law in Georgia, but it most certainly IS currently the law in Georgia.
I had buddies that were confronted for a little chat by guys with guns. He was shot dead in a Jack in the Box.
We don’t stick around to chat with men with guns. As kids, the first thing we do is run. We never wait to see why the car is driving down the road like that or what the people yelling at us want to talk about.
I have been corned a few times for a “chat” by strangers. They tried to rob me or ask me where I was “from.” Being a good talker and not having any money on me is what saved me.
As an adult I can’t slip by so easily. It’s gun time…
I heard Greg McMichael was witnessed at a right wing white supremacy rally wearing some hateful clothing. I haven’t mentioned this because I can’ verify. If it is him, the hate crime is a coming.
I heard he was a space alien from the planet Xenu. Being at a rally is proof of jack shit.
There is a photo going around. Go look it up.
I’ll wait for the trial, if there is one. Give the guys on 4chan a few hours and they’ll have a convincing photo of the ventilated perp shooting JFK.
There will be a trial. How it will go I have no clue. Depends on how good their counsel is and the gender and racial make up of the jury. Which will depend on who is better at narrowing down the members of the jury the State or their lawyers. I’ve been surprised more than once at the outcome of a trial.
Having heard from one of the best practicing civil rights lawyers in the country, I don’t think the trial will be very surprising. This is going to get yeeted… again. The key detail is that, under current statute in GA, a private citizen is, in effect, allowed to make a Terry stop.
If you look at this from the perspective of current GA statute, the prosecution is going to have to prove…
1. BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the father’s suspicion that a felony occurred was unreasonable.
2. BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the father’s suspicion that the felon in question was trying to escape.
3. BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the son’s use of force was not reasonable.
If I was prosecuting I wouldn’t touch this with a 10 foot pole. Under the statutes as they exist right now, there is NO WAY that I could get a conviction on any kind of murder.
Again, this is not a MORAL debate. This is a LEGAL debate.
Morally, the guys were retarded and reckless.
Legally, they didn’t do anything wrong.
That would be enough to look into the hate crime charge.
Quit making up things
The chief makes up things. No cred as far as I’m concerned
A Hate crime??? How about white liberals support law abiding black people carrying guns??? So they can shot the white racist criminals, that liberals say are out to get the blacks!
Big government liberals don’t want black people, or anyone else, to take care of their own problems. Which may include shooting an attacker.
If they’re going to have hate crimes, then they need to add political affiliation to the list of protected classes. I’ve never seen so much hate and intolerance in my life as I’ve witnessed in the past 3-4 years.
A lot of black liberals are saying they need to start arming themselves because they can’t depend on the government and they don’t want to by lynched like Arbery. I only heard one podcast where the black rights group (whatever their name is) said they need more gun control and to remove stand your ground laws and citizen’s arrest laws. Most black Americans are saying it’s time to legally arm. Unfortunately, they haven’t heard of Black Guns Matter.
Of course the NRA is not going to help. They don’t want those kinds of people in the NRA. They don’t want to upset the “McMichaels,” they could drop their memberships.
What “kinds of people”? Career law enforcement officers with no criminal records and spotless backgrounds? Or are you assuming that every white man that shoots a black man HAS to be racist?
The NRA said they don’t want minorities in their organization because the internal polling said it would upset donors and long time members. They decided to focus on law enforcement, the older crowd and white male Republicans.
The NRA only hired mouth pieces like Colion Noir to make it appear they were diverse. They told Maj Toure they would help the black community get legally armed and offered Maj money to do that, but the NRA did no such thing. Maj Toure left the NRA because they were liars and bias towards a certain demographic. Colion got fired without being told and is back to being a lonely Youtuber.
It goes on and on. We have already talked about this for three years. We don’t need to spend another 20 articles on it.
and just like the older organizations that catered to the vets they will go extinct when their members die off or become to old. When I got out I tried to join the local VFW. I was told we do not like losers. They did not want us young whippersnappers. Now the last of the Korean vets are dying out and they like quite a few other chapters had to close. Funny how a few years back I was told like others we were more than welcome to join. Sorry your drinking hole had to go byebye
“The NRA said they don’t want minorities in their organization because the internal polling said it would upset donors and long time members.”
Cite the source, or it’s bullshit.
Oh, and how do you explain Colion Noir’s presence at the NRA?
Chief, that crap about NRA is pure bullshit, whoever told you that needs his name removed from your list of people to trust. Think for a minute, if the NRA had EVER said such a thing, It would have been the lead story of every newscast in the country, every day, for 5-10 years. Yet you alone have uncovered this gem? Don’t be ridiculous.
You’re an idiot. The NRA is open to and welcomes anyone who supports the 2A. Let’s focus on what unites us rather than what divides us.
Have you seen a statement on this lynching from the NRA? Are they silent because the McMichaels and Bryan are NRA members?
And when la poo steps down I probably will rejoin. Not now though I helped buy enough suits. Money is better spent with other groups.
Holy shit Chief. You need to get your head on straight. This is about as much a “lynching” as any other Terry stop gone wrong. You are a vile vile racist and need to get your head examined.
Chief censor You are doing what I expect from a Liberal. The color doesn’t matter. The Gun Owners of America gave I think $25,000 to Maj Toure of Black Guns Matter. He now has a 25 city tour of the United States. Thanks to the great OFWGs, for helping to make this happen.
There’s not a lot of white conservative gun owners who like the NRA now. Plus I and many black NRA members had a great time in Nashville Tn and at the Atlanta Ga NRA meetings. But you won’t see the racist Liberal MSM show the pictures.
Gun Owners of America are not the NRA.
Go talk to Maj Toure, then get back to me.
Hold on Chris. Are you talking about those (you) people being allowed to walk around with firearms?
That is some radical agitator talk right there.
Oh – And FFS I hope I don’t have to say this was sarcasm.
Some of you are complete fucking idiots. You know nothing… They didn’t murder a jogger, and as usual the picture of the young man is from high school – he was a lot older that that.
Go to The Officer Tatum for Facts… https://youtu.be/sjCzJyFKoqo
That grifter was flapping his money maker early without facts. He was siding with the cop because he was a cop and he needs that money. That man has no integrity. He left being a cop to make money off Trump fans.
Robert Barnes disagrees with you.
Watching a live stream with Robert Barnes & Viva Frei.
Interestingly, immediate knowledge is not a standard when you have “reasonable suspicion” of a felony.
The retired investigator who was once a police officer no longer has “qualified immunity”.
So he will have to answer for chasing a person he believed to be a fleeing burglar, and shooting him dead when he resisted.
It might be a case of lawful but awful, but it certainly looks bad for the father and son.
Too bad they don’t seem to have carry insurance or they would already have a lawyer.
I urge everyone who has a gun to buy the pre paid legal defense product commonly called carry insurance.
It costs $330 to $400 per year and will pay the $30,000 needed for a legal retainer, the $300,000 needed for investigators, expert witnesses, and a trial lawyer.
This is available from several companies, including USCCA and CCW safe, US law Shield and others.
Sorry Doc, but this is CERTAINLY a case of “awful but lawful” under GA statute, this case should never have been brought. The father / son have a VERY strong malicious prosecution case given that one DA already cleared them.
In GA, a private citizen, former LEO or not, effectively has the authority to conduct a Terry stop.
Now that I’ve heard a VERY left wing civil rights lawyer chime in on the statutes in question, I’m even more convinced that legally, this is another Zimmerman case.
Now it’s pure political.. facts and justice be damned just like Michael Brown and Zimmerman bs…
Report: Black Male Murders White Couple In Their 80s With Sniper Rifle—Revenge For Ahmaud Arbery?
They don’t know why he killed them and himself.
Let’s use your standards Chief.
White elderly victims, black perp… Sounds like a racist attack to me. And you’re a massive racist for trying to inject logic into the argument.
Doesn’t feel so good when the shoe is on the other foot, does it?
I only know the couple was old and white and the man was black. He shot them and now he is dead. The police say they don’t know why he would kill them and himself.
Was it a hate crime? Don’t know. Will we find out? Probably not because he is dead and they are dead. If it was a black man hunting white people why did he stop on two old people?
The McMichaels’ case has evidence for days.
Why did he stop? Because the cops showed up and started shooting back.
Nothing to do with this case. Racial hate works only one way.
That was clearly Covid 19 killing the elderly couple anyways.
You’re quoting the ‘vdare’ website?
Are you for real? Thanks for admitting what I’ve suspected about you all along, being a racist to the *bone*…
Merely pointing out other views from lame media you moron. And what you ‘suspect’ about me is worth as much as a bucket of spit.
But thanks for playing
Hate crime? What a crock. If this was a hate crime, then rape must be a love crime.
The two jokers seem guilty as hell to me — of manslaughter.
Not according to GA law. Best way to analyze the case is look at it as a Terry stop. In GA, the citizen’s arrest statute is basically Terry.
Are you allowed to brandish a shotgun during a Terry stop? The “jogger” wasn’t posing a deadly threat prior to that.
Maybe they should be charged with brandishing then.
Yes. What they did was lawful open carry. Nowhere in the video is the shotgun pointed at the perp until after he grabs it.
Comparing Terry to the citizen’s arrest statute in Georgia is completely inane. You do not Terry arrest someone. And a citizen can only arrest… in part to prevent just this sort of ridiculous outcome.
Sorry kiddo, that not what the law says.
Sergei, Why won’t you share the pertinent part of Georgia statute that you are relying on for your opinion?
It would take but a moment to copy and paste the statute section or case law that supports your position.
Your continued failure indicates the facts aren’t with you. And the fact that you claim to have heard a ‘prominent civil rights attorney’ expresse this opinion is just that, hearsay and means about the same as the proverbial bucket of spit. Please, what is the name of this prominent civil rights attorney, so that we may assure ourselves of his validity and credibility.
I am quite curious about what EVIDENCE they have that this a ‘HATE CRIME’.
It takes a hell of a lot more than them just being different races ya know!
So a black person can kill an elderly white couple & barely a blip on news radar. A white guy kills a black male who matched the description of a burglar and who attempted to take a firearm away from him and gets himself killed in the process and the want to charge him with an additional hate crime?! GTFOH.. FEDERAL PROSECUTORS ARE A BUNCH OF PANSY RACE BAITING LEFT WING MEDIA BALLSUCKING SHEEP..
Maybe because he is dead now?
So… I take it you would be ok with the KKK “protesting” in front of his family home demanding an “investigation”?
The black trespasser/ burglar had a criminal record and the two white guys have worked with local police as investigators. For years now. And THEY ALL knew each other.
This case is not what the knee jerker crowd thought it was going to turn out to be.
But I still am waiting for these two shooters to explain why they shot an unarmed guy running away from them.
Look at the video… He was shot when he grabbed the shotgun. Do I need to explain why I have no problem with lighting up someone who is stupid enough to grab for your gun?
I watched the phone video. I still want the entire story. All the evidence. But there is no question this guy was up to no good. And I support regular citizens making an arrest. But the shooters still need to explain themselves. It will cost them lots of $$$ in lawyers. I hope it was worth it to them.
Never forget your bullets all have lawyers attached to them.
True… Never said what they did was smart, just legal.
The most important second of the video is obscured by the truck. The forensics report would be much more revealing.
Everyone needs to watch this 42 minute video. From stephen malenoux.
THE TRUTH ABOUT AHMAUD ARBERY
Good video… The law is actually clearer than Stephen makes it out to be. Not surprising, he’s not a lawyer.
Watch your own video, “immediate knowledge” is the equivalent of being a WITNESS. Looking at a video is not being a witness. I also looked at the older philosophical references to it, arcane as you can get, but popular about 100 years ago.
Someone didn’t watch the full video.
Immediate knowledge is the GENERAL standard.
Reasonable suspicion is the FELONY standard.
Immediate knowledge is a red hearing. Entering a dwelling (occupied or not) with the INTENT to commit theft is a CLASS 1 FELONY. Thus, the immediate knowledge standard does not apply. No reasonable person would think someone would enter a vacant dwelling that does not belong to them with the intent to have a tea party. Thus, reasonable suspicion of a felony applies.
You can always find what you want.
Me: cites respected civil rights lawyer.
You: cites some retard in his drawers.
A civil rights lawyer and a patent lawyer. What matters is the state’s prosecutor.
Cop versus lawyer.
I saw this too.
It’s sad that you can emphasize with the murder, but if you call the black racism exactly what it is, then you are a racist because you are white. Fucking hate these cases. These two men have zero evidence against them that there was anything race related.
My god man, we don’t agree what they did was right, but even more so, we don’t agree with the race baiting. Similar cases literally in the same week of black men following and shooting multiple white people never made so much as a peep.
Nobody wants to show ARBERYs mugshot, his true self. They want to show you a nice well dressed innocent black man. But for the white guys pictures… they use hunting pics… mugshots. etc etc.
I am so tired of this black racism. I am tired of all racism, but I am extremely tired of black racism being acceptable. Call it what it is.
What is wrong with a hunting pic from their social? It’s a wholesome picture with father and son.
Arbery is considered a victim. Why do you want to show a mugshot of the dead victim? Isn’t that an attempt to destroy the reputation of the victim who can’t speak for himself before a jury is convened?
When you try to kill a guy who is lawfully detaining you for your felony, you’re not a victim, you’re a criminal who got what he had coming.
They weren’t detaining him for a felony, they hadn’t seen the video, they’ve had no idea he was on the construction site. They had no basis for a reasonable suspicion because they had observed nothing but a black man running.
“Entering a dwelling (occupied or not) with the INTENT to commit theft is a CLASS 1 FELONY.”
Number one, it was not a dwelling, no one has ever lived there, it was a construction site.
Number two, there’s no evidence he had any intent to steal, he had opportunity but didn’t steal anything and was only on the premises less than three minutes.
And by the way, your claims that he was wearing boots so he couldn’t be jogging is total BS. You want to use the construction site video as evidence then you have to accept the fact he was wearing running shoes as can clearly be seen in the video.
You are ignoring the facts in order to support your twisted narrative of prejudice, you have quite literally pre-judged that the victim was guilty of some kind of burglary offense.
Cats don’t like dogs, dogs don’t like cats but if there raised together they seem to get along alright. Humans geesh ,, hopefully the c virus gets rid of them
I like dogs, don’t like cats. To be entirely fair, kinda’ strongly dislike cats.
Even so, I’d never follow one in my truck, get out ahead of one and try to ambush the critter.
Just not into that sort of rude behavior.
A Federal “Hate Crime” charge is a huge reach always. Proving the crime was done for that reason is nigh on to impossible.
What is painfully obvious is these guys went out to do their own law dogging, ambushed a man who hadn’t done a damned thing they claim and defeated him when he fought for his life.
After that the pappy’s old friends gave him and his mouth breather boy a free pass, which is a thing you do for one of your own.
They should both hang for it, but we’ve gotten too civilized for that. At most, maybe some time and probation is all.
Ok… For CRYING OUT LOUD.
WATCH THE VIDEOS!
There was nothing illegal about a citizen carrying out a Terry stop in GA. They SPECIFICALLY used the language from Terry in the statute!
At this point in the exercise, when so much has come out, the only reason to be this fucking ignorant is if you have an axe to grind.
Do you have any cases permitting citizens (non-sworn) to conduct a Terry stop? I can’t find any.
Look at the video I linked above. The statute in GA is one of the broadest in the country. It was specifically written to, in effect, allow a civilian to perform a Terry stop.
The guy being interviewed in the video I linked is one of the most respected civil rights lawyers in the country and more than familiar with the relevant statutes. I was confused by the dual standards in the statute so I spent some cash and asked.
As you read the below text in quotes, be sure to be staring into your bathroom mirror. Make a scowly sort of angy face, you may need to practice. Point or wag your finger energetically, shout your own name, and then keep going with the text.
Pay special attention to the very last line.
“Ok… For CRYING OUT LOUD.
WATCH THE VIDEOS!
There was nothing illegal about a citizen carrying out a Terry stop in GA. They SPECIFICALLY used the language from Terry in the statute!
At this point in the exercise, when so much has come out, the only reason to be this fucking ignorant is if you have an axe to grind.”
The fact that you made the very argument that was debunked by one of the best lawyers in the country after claiming to have watched the video means I don’t give a shit what you say.
The fact that you cannot comprehend how many people here feel exactly the same way about you and the godawful drivel you post on news stories like this one shows just how pathetically out of touch you are with reality.
Keep on grinding that axe, you are going to get down to the hickory sooner or later.
Yeah… I’m not the one ignoring the legal opinion of the sitting DA AND one of the most respected civil rights lawyers in the country.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. No amount of race baiting of bullshit “hands up don’t shoot” arguments change the facts of the case or the underlying law. I, for one, don’t really care about people who think it’s ok to go into other people’s homes without permission. (whatever the reason) Guy with a rap sheet decided he wanted to pick a fight with a shotgun because he didn’t want to get locked up. Shotgun beats fist.
If you’re going to be outraged, pick a person it’s worth being outraged about. There’s reason why Rosa Parks was chosen to sit at the front of that bus. All you do by whipping up lynch mobs over a BS case is make the REAL cases harder to bring.
“A Terry stop in the United States allows the police to briefly detain a person based on reasonable suspicion of involvement in criminal activity. Reasonable suspicion is a lower standard than probable cause which is needed for arrest. When police stop and search a pedestrian, this is commonly known as a stop and frisk.”
Since neither of the accused is a police officer, the Terry Stop provision does not apply.
… dear god you guys are illiterate cretins. The GEORGIA STATUTE has the same standards as Terry. Basically any citizen can arrest on reasonable suspicion of a felony and use any force necessary to prevent escape. It’s black letter fucking law.
You’re fkn kidding me, right???
If someone pulls a gun on you, you DO NOT attempt to disarm that person unless you want to risk your life….
Anyone with half a brain knows this….
Please stop trying to make everything a GD RACE ISSUE…
WHITE PEOPLE ARE FKN SICK OF HEARING BLACKS CRY ABOUT NON EXISTENT RACISM….
THE WHINIEST RACE IN EXISTENCE, ALONG WITH JEWS…..STFU ALREADY…. NOBODY CARES ANYMORE….
SINK OR SWIM MFERS….. JUST LIKE I HAVE TO DO EVERYDAY…….GD…..
Your rock is calling, it wants you to climb back under it with the rest of the the slime.
You helicopter is boarding.
So you agree with the fake George?
At this point it is obvious to me that all whites are guilty even the ones who say they arent racist. There laws are pointless and do not deserve to be respected. I don’t see how they are going to live down all the racist things they did. MLK was a fool for misleading blacks into peacefully protesting. Blacks should probably steal the central bank from jews and just exterminate the entire white and asian race in america/europe/asia. You don’t benefit blacks so we dont need you. Im going to St. Louis and buying the federal reserve there. Its easier to win a war when you control all the wealth so thats what I aim to do. If Korean Bob hadnt have ruined it for everyone then things would definitely be different. Because of his sole actions he started a permanent and lasting conflict. He has caused a divide between me and michelle le, jessica, and laci.
You REALLY need to lay off the crack…. moron
Anything to take eyes off the corruption that gave a former cop a completely free pass to shoot people, I guess.
Good observation. And, if anything, a former LEO should understand the law better than the average citizen. Given the facts as I understand them, not even an active LEO on duty would be authorized to use deadly force in this situation.
Their actions were stupid and irresponsible. What’s interesting is the conversation never ends up being incompetence, only racist. Why is that? The left’s entire argument for disarming us is, we don’t need these deadly weapons. We should only let the “highly trained professionals” have these weapons.
He got the same pass as any other citizen who lawfully tried to detain a felon in Georgia.
Just the other day someone pointed a shotgun at me and so I rushed him and ripped the gun out of his hands… said no one except a ghost.
When I see a case in the news, I realize that I am probably not in complete possession of the facts. That makes it hard – if not impossible – to reach a conclusion resulting in the assignment of fault. A jury, presented with all of the facts, would be in the best position to render judgment. But based on what has been published by diverse sources of information, I think we can reach some preliminary conclusions.
1) Gregory McMichael and Travis McMichael were not active law enforcement officers (LEOs).
2) Since they are not LEOs, they do not have a duty or a right to pursue and use deadly force against another person. It is drilled into every concealed carrier that you must fear being gravely injured or killed, and that fear must be reasonable (the “reasonable person” standard). In most places, you have an affirmative duty to retreat to safety if that is possible (except if you are in your home or at your place of business).
3) The truck driven by the McMichaels pursued the decedent, who was on foot. Even had you put a gun in Ahmaud Arbery’s hand (which he did not have, according to reports), the McMichaels had no duty or standing to pursue Arbery. They were not in fear for their lives (even if Arbery had a gun they could have driven away). They could and should have called 911 and retreated if they felt that a crime had been committed.
4) Arbery showed no evidence of being armed. The McMichaels had vastly superior firepower, transport and vantage point.
A number of other events occurred in this incident that would come out in a trial, but I’m not sure that one needs any additional facts to determine if the McMichaels should be charged with a crime. Unless Glynn County has a “shoot on sight” provision in their legal code that applies to ordinary citizens outside their domiciles, it appears that a crime was committed here.
For the moment, let’s take race out of the legal picture, If all of the actors were white, would this shooting have been justified? If my son was out for a run, unarmed, would he deserve to have two guys in a truck run up on him and shoot him down?
As gun owners, I feel that it’s incumbent upon us to stand for equal justice under the law. Any of us running down the street is entitled to the presumption of innocence. As a concealed carrier, I will use my weapon only when I have no other choice; when me or a loved one cannot get away and I genuinely fear for my life. It’s ethical and it makes practical sense.
Don’t give up you day job kiddo. Under Georgia law, citizens have broad arrest and pursuit powers. Far broader than the bullshit standard in most of the rest of the country.
They’ve been arrested, why don’t we see how chips fall before we try and make this a federal case.
This likely became a federal case because the local authorities completely mishandled it. There were numerous failures and conflicts of interest. If this case was handled with integrity and competence, it would probably not have gone to the federal courts.
Oh, fuck off, the only “mishandling” was in caving to a bunch of racist poverty pimps because one of their precious boys got exactly what he had coming.
Right. a man running down a street, apparently unarmed, was run down by two guys in a pickup truck who shouted some inapplicable Terry language at him before they shot him down. Certainly, this is the definition of someone who “had it coming.”
Let’s cut through the nonsense. These guys, doing what they did, are the very reason that there are loads of people who want to take away our guns. And every time someone like you defends them with ludicrous arguments, you provide the anti-gun lobby more reasons for believing we are all dumb rednecks who will shoot at anything that moves.
The two guys in the truck, based on the available public evidence, hunted down and killed an unarmed man. This suggests that they had both criminal intent and malice aforethought. This meets the preconditions of a murder charge.
If you are going to attempt to cite law in the future, kindly copy and paste the statute into the message, along with a link back to the actual law for reference. It would also be helpful if you could include court decisions in support of these laws/statues.
“It looks like the perp” looks like it landed the McMichaels in jail. Those two buffoons are prime examples for what not to do especially for those void of common sense. The elder McMichael who should have known better led his son into a deep shthole. All could have been avoided if they simply stayed home and called the police or maintained a non-confrontational distance from the suspect for a photo or to provide location for LE.
This isn’t about Georgia Law, open carry and all the dribble previously posted mostly by bigots who see Black and want to get a rope. No law gives you a right to bully or intimidate any person with a gun, knife, etc. “You see this gun? You don’t do what I say I might use it” is the kind of stupidity that will land you in jail right beside the McMichaels. The obvious and only reason the McMchaels left home with weapons was to pursue a suspect. A suspect they shot and killed. Sucks to be them.
History tends to repeat itself and this case probably won’t be any different than the “race shootings” of recent history.
Btw. Thanks for reminding us all your not a racist…..
Yeah… sorry Karen, in Georgia, the citizens have exactly the same powers to arrest and detain as the cops. They just don’t get qualified immunity.
Bitch, calling people racists because they aren’t supporting a lynch mob over a ventilated thug, shows exactly why the 19th amendment needs to be repealed.
10 o’clock local news here in North Florgia just reported that an investigation into Gregory McMichael’s personnel file shows that in April 2014 he faced suspension of his certification with Georgia Peace Officers Standards and Training (P.O.S.T.) for being deficient in critical training hours. Further, it shows that he did not have legal arrest powers in GA., as an Investigator, from 2006 thru 2014. He then had his P.O.S.T. certification suspended in February 2019 for failing to maintain the required training in 2018. They are now trying to figure out if he made any arrests during that eight year period.
So, now there’s a second alleged perpetrator with a problem “record”?
The plot continues to coagulate.
We should never jump to conclusions without facts. That said, although there are many “hate crimes” and cases of citizen overreach that are unjustified, we should not dismiss them out of hand simply because they rub us the wrong way at first glance. As gun owners and carriers, we should be champions for color-blind, race-blind justice. Why? Because we have the power to kill and people of all political stripes know it. Responsible carriers are a net positive impact on society. We are in the position to protect ourselves and others IF we bear that burden responsibly.
So much virtue signaling. So much illiteracy.
When these guys walk… and they will walk…
All you retards can kiss the fattest, hairiest part of my Cossack ass. I will be mocking you beta cucks for this for the next decade. The sad part about this? You saw this bullshit before less than a decade ago… TWICE. And you retards still keep falling for it.
The white male, Republican beta cuck, AG has put a black woman on the case after 3 white MAGA country DAs wouldn’t charge the 3 Trump supporters.
This might be setting yourself up for failure. Based on evidence that is currently available to the public, this looks more like manslaughter or negligent homicide rather than felony murder. I have my doubts they’d be able to prove this is a felony murder and perhaps not even the aggravated assault, but again, that’s only based on the evidence available to the public as of this morning. If the GBI has more evidence that they’re not releasing, then yes there’s always the possibility they can get a conviction. But color me skeptical when more tapes are coming out daily that the McMichaels had a rationale to pursue Arbery in the first place (note: such a rationale does not excuse their other actions such as bringing the weapons and exacerbating the situation). The point is, if it’s not even likely that the original charges can be sustained, what makes the feds think they can tack on a hate charge? This one is clearly absurd as there is no evidence or indication that this was racially motivated at all.
All of the recent bloodlust is going to end in disaster if the McMichaels are acquitted of the murder charge, and if the Fed’s drop their hate crime case. There’s going to be riots. On the flip side, I guess that’s what the prosecution is banking on. If the jury can get pressured into thinking “man if we vote not guilty, my neighborhood is going to go up in flames”, perhaps they will err on their own personal safety. Sly and dishonest, and the media is certainly complicit in ramping up such blood lust.
The government has a lot of info, a lot.
There are some text messages going around that the families involved dislike black people and they had it out for Arbery in particular. Some text messages are said to contain plans to get Arbery the next time they see him. If these text messages are real, it appears the 3 men premeditated an armed mob action against Arbery, which explains why Greg would go after Arbery when he saw him run past his house.
Based on the messages I seen, it looks like Bryan will also get charged with being an armed participant.
It appears drama will break out around June or when this info gets out. I hear the neighborhood is starting to put up “no trespassing” signs because they are anticipating groups of people coming to the neighborhood they don’t want around.
It appears Trump is now throwing them under the bus. He knows a lot more than the public. He wants to distance himself from those 3 Trump supporters involved.
I suggest you go back to law school and re-read what felony murder entails. Because this post shows a complete lack of understanding of what makes felony murder.
here you go
Stop posting grifters to defend murderers because you are also a white man.
What a contrast between the two videos, thanks to both of you for posting, it is very enlightening.
The misinformation and intentional mischaracterization of the facts in the YouTube video is hilarious, except for the fact they’re discussing the murder of an innocent man.
The claims made on the YouTube video are the very essence of ‘fake news’, by individuals who clearly are motivated by their Conservative political views.
The CNN video, with an on camera interview with the actual property owner shows the truth of the matter, the McMichaels never saw the video, never had any reason to believe the victim had committed a burglary.
The perpetrators did not have a reasonable suspicion a crime and been committed, they hadn’t seen any evidence to indicate the victim had anything to do with any crime.
Random YouTube videos by uninvolved, uninformed commentators who are intentionally mischaracterizing the available facts, will lead folks down the wrong path.
The McMichaels will be the new poster children for the anti-gun movement, who will rightly see them as a danger to citizens.