Ukrainian servicemen sing a patriotic song amid buildings destroyed during fighting between Ukrainian and Russian forces in Borodyanka, Ukraine, Tuesday, April 5, 2022.(AP Photo/Vadim Ghirda)
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By Cody Wisniewski

Nearly three months in, it’s tough to judge the overall state of Ukraine’s war with Russia. But there’s widespread agreement (and amazement), that Ukraine has defeated Russia’s initial effort to take Kyiv and topple the Ukrainian government. Much of Ukraine’s success in this regard has come from ordinary citizens bearing arms in defense of their country.

This is almost certainly the gun rights story of the year and possibly the decade—showing the world that the natural right of self-defense is an integral part of individual liberty and an essential check on tyranny. Whatever happens now, these lessons should never be forgotten.

But does Ukraine’s own government sufficiently understand these truths? Reports out of the country suggest an underlying gun control ideology still has a hold on officials, despite some movement in the direction of liberty.

Ultimately, Ukraine will undermine its own fight for freedom from Russian tyranny if it steps back from protecting citizens’ natural self-defense rights.

Russia Ukraine War civilian gun guns training
Ukrainian civilians receive weapons training, in the outskirts of Lviv, western Ukraine, Monday, March 7, 2022. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

The nation’s initial embrace of civilian armament was sudden and dramatic. As Russia launched its full-scale invasion in February, Ukraine handed out more than 25,000 automatic rifles and 10 million rounds of ammunition to volunteers in Kyiv. Simultaneously, Ukraine’s parliament overcame decades of debate to pass a more friendly gun rights law. While the legislation has major flaws, it’s better than the prior system: a Soviet-era holdover in which a single official could ban all private gun ownership.

In April, a new communique from the Ministry of Defense praised the “volunteers who took up arms” for “doing an incredible job . . . with weapons in hand, you liberated the north of Ukraine from the Russian occupiers, and now you are fighting for the south and east of Ukraine.”

This same message, however, goes on to take a different tone from Ukrainian officials’ stance in February.

Cars pass by destroyed Russian tanks in a recent battle against Ukrainians in the village of Dmytrivka, close to Kyiv, Ukraine, Monday, May 23, 2022.  (AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky)

The communique orders volunteers in several regions to return their weapons: “Some of our regions have been liberated from the occupiers, and there is no fighting . . . in these regions, it is time to concentrate weapons in certain storage areas. You will take care of [the weapon], take [it] for training, and, if necessary, get [it] to complete tasks.”

Even if the weapons are state property, this disarmament decree seems unwise — especially for a country still very much at war, where civilians have allegedly been indiscriminately killed and otherwise brutalized, and where some Russians would reportedly like to “do it again.”

The order also indicates Ukraine may be uncomfortable with the armed citizenry that has helped to keep it free thus far. And it’s not the only indication of that discomfort.

Prior to Russia’s 2022 invasion, President Zelenskyy opposed a major campaign to expand the legal protection of gun rights. As Firearms News noted in a recent article, Zelenskyy’s current vision of security is for Ukraine to become “a ‘big Israel,’” as well as a European Union member.

The bodies of Russian servicemen lie on the ground after an attack on their position by Ukrainian forces outside Kyiv, Ukraine.(AP Photo/Vadim Ghirda)

While Israel is well-known for its military prowess, that country also (in the words of its Public Security Ministry) “does not recognize a right to bear arms, and anyone wanting to do so must meet a number of requirements, including a justified need to carry a firearm.” EU policies are similarly restrictive, with gun ownership being treated as a state-granted privilege and not the preexisting natural right that it is.

All of this suggests Ukraine’s government does not fully grasp the lesson its armed citizens have taught the world: that gun rights are human rights, while gun control offers only an illusion of safety.

As with so much else in this conflict, however, the future for civilian armament and gun rights is unclear. On May 13, Ukrainian Defense Minister Oleksii Reznikov announced the country intends to arm a million people for “a new, long phase of the war.”

Reznikov says Ukraine “must plan resources carefully, avoid mistakes and project our strength in such a way that the enemy ultimately breaks.”

It’s already clear that Ukrainians could have been much more effective in their defense if they had been able to train with these tools their entire lives instead of quickly learning to handle them during an invasion.

A picture of Russian President Vladimir Putin hangs at a target practice range in Lviv in western Ukraine. (AP Photo/Bernat Armangue)

Ukraine has the opportunity to empower its citizens to exercise their right to self- and national-defense and to continue to defend the country against Russian aggression in one fell swoop. But one of the worst mistakes Ukraine could make would be a schizophrenic gun policy that alternates between mass armament and mass disarmament. If this is where the country is headed, it’s imperative to change course.

The key to avoiding this mistake is recognizing the truth about our rights.

Individual self-defense, and national self-defense, are simply two different forms of the same natural right. Both must be fully embraced for Ukraine to survive in freedom.

 

Cody J. Wisniewski (@TheWizardofLawz) is the director of Mountain States Legal Foundation’s Center to Keep and Bear Arms. He primarily focuses on Second Amendment issues but is happy so long as he is reminding the government of its enumerated powers and constitutional restrictions.

To learn more about the Center to Keep and Bear Arms’ work and support their fight for your natural right to self-defense—from both man and tyranny—visit www.mslegal.org/2A and donate today!

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245 COMMENTS

  1. Ultimately it will be up to the people of Ukraine. If government demands they give up their guns and they refuse we may get a lesson in what happens when you try to disarm people who won’t just go along with it.

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  2. Ukraine is not, and has never been, a free country. The government controls the media, they banned opposition political parties, and the only way to be safe from government prosecution is to know a Biden.

    • The “opposition parties” that were banned were all Russian/Putin paid for organizations whose role was to prepare Ukraine for the Russian invasion.

      • Maybe, but keep in mind that the Democrats have been calling their opposition Russian/Putin stooges for the past six years. If they could silence their opposition, based on that, don’t you think they would? Actually, they already have. The government silenced free speech by colluding with Big Tech. That’s why they’re freaking out over the possibility of free speech on twitter.

        Do you think it’s possible to have an opposition party that isn’t in league with Russians? Opposition always exists.

        • In this case, those “opposition” parties were in fact paid for by the Russians. That is why the troops in the initial invasion were carrying dress uniforms – they expected a 3 or 4 day “war”, as their Fifth Column was supposed to have prepared the “freedom from the nazis” beforehand. That ploy simply failed. And, yes, we too have plenty of organizations and individuals on Russian payroll, starting with Greenpeace and various anti-Vietnam War organizations and, more recently, Hillary and her team. Freedom of speech does not include giving a platform to your enemies.

    • Yeah, we don’t need facts here to counter the “rUsSiA bAd” narrative, which states Ukraine is a democratic country. Go away, truth teller.

      • Ukraine has invaded no one.
        Russia has conquered numerous places and each is left very miserable.

        • Cool story, bro!! Now do Russia vs. Nazi Germany. Just because Russian is a Leftist/fascist dictatorship (and it is) does NOT make Ukraine a bastion of democracy, fairness, and freedom. Learn to see in more than black and white. Russia can be (is) a fascist dictatorship, and Ukraine can be a corrupt kleptocracy; these are not mutually exclusive concepts.

  3. So we’re still pretending that client state “Ukraine” is winning, and they’re about to send Russia packing with it’s tail between it’s legs? I wonder how this would have played out without the US contributing. Would Europe have kicked in the difference? Or would ultra-brave, dreamy Zelenskyy have signed a peace agreement, sparing the death and destruction (and tens of billions of profit)? Who’s planning on rebuilding that country some day? Has anyone thought about that? What’s the end goal again because Putin would probably commit suicide before he admits defeat here.

    Answering the author’s question. No. They don’t care about freedom or rights. They care about winning and staying in power. They armed citizens because they had to.

    • What was accomplished? Showing China how to avoid the responses they could receive if/when they make a move on Taiwan.

      They are currently attempting to decoupling themselves from any potential sanctions from a Taiwan invasion. Removing key sectors and individuals off the backbone of technological and economic supply chains to break reliance from the West.

      This would include the worldwide payments network, where currently the bulk of global money transfers are processed through SWIFT and chips. China’s alternative parallel system developed in 2015 known as CIPS will help break the global dependence offering China insulation from the West’s sanctions.

      We keep on showing our hand, China takes notes, and they continue on growing stronger.

      • Yep. The big winner here was China who watched the west show their hand. Now they’ll adjust accordingly. First and foremost they’ll likely buff their logistics arm and look for the severe weaknesses of what’s plagued Russia in their own force. Then as you said they’re going to buff their economy and trade to avoid global sanctions.

      • Attacking Taiwan would screw up the global economy enough that it would cause WW3. If TSMC gets damaged, we won’t be talking about toothless sanctions.

    • “Or would ultra-brave, dreamy Zelenskyy have signed a peace agreement, sparing the death and destruction” — I’m sorry, did I read that correctly? Are you blaming Zelenskyy for the death and destruction? I hope that you remember your own advice, and should you ever be attacked, submit, in order to avoid death and destruction.

      • “Are you blaming Zelenskyy for the death and destruction?”

        Well? Isn’t it true that if Ukraine didn’t resist, the vast majority of death and destruction would not have happened?

        Brother-In-Law blames Zelenskyy, and every other government leader for not preserving the lives of “the people”, whatever the eventual outcome. “Nothing is more important that preserving life.”

        It is interesting that people who believe, “If it saves only one…” are pretty much all endorsing military intervention/support for Ukraine.

        • Many people say that every one should just relax and let rapists and thrives do what they want as most won’t actually kill you.
          After sone beating and raping they might get tired and leave you. But, some of us don’t like this whole idea and think we should fight Putin to the death.
          Those who surrender encourage thugs.

        • No one said anything about surrender, Richard. The legitimate questions I posed were asking if Zelenskyy would be forced into peace talks. That involves some sort of compromise from both sides. The only reason he hasn’t been forced into that is because we’re propping him up. In other words, we are enabling war, as we always do. More war means more death and destruction. It isn’t for “democracy” either. That’s propaganda for the sheep. It’s for money, power, and ego.

        • “It is interesting that people who believe, “If it saves only one…” are pretty much all endorsing military intervention/support for Ukraine. “

          Yes, that’s a very interesting observation! As a general rule, I’ve found the best default position is to be against whatever the establishment/globalists are for.

      • Comparing the Russian invasion to someone attacking me sure is a childish worldview there Simple Jack. It would be more akin to me taking my family to the wrong side of town at the wrong time, and taunting the wrong group of guys. If they attack me should I fight back and defend my family? Of course! But if I cared about the well-being of my family, then why would I put them in such a dangerous position to begin with? How about money and power? That would be cold wouldn’t it? But people do that, don’t they?

        This conflict has been brewing for decades. The powers that be don’t want you to think about that. They just want you to think Putin bad, Zelenskyy good. That makes life easier for them when the bodies start piling up. The US invested over $5 billion into Ukraine in the 90s and 2000s in order to control them, excuse me, um, promote democracy. Yeah, I think they said it was to promote democracy. People like Simple Jack believe that. $5 billion was worth quite a bit more twenty years ago. That wasn’t a small investment. Would you believe a large portion of it was for border security? Crazy, huh?

        The International Monetary Fund got involved in order to make the country more attractive to investors. That is code for multinational corporate control of the economy. As this was happening, the president of Ukraine was seen as being too friendly to Russian interests which also wanted to control Ukraine. President Yanukovych ended trade talks with the EU. Instead, he engaged in trade talks with Russia. So what did the US do? We did what we always do when things aren’t going our way. We helped stage a coup, overthrew the government, and installed a “pro-western” government. Guess what happened immediately after that? Yep, EU trade deals and tens of billions in investment from the IMF. Funny how that worked out.

        Ukraine is caught in the middle of a proxy battle between western corporate interest and Russian interest. To answer your question, no, I don’t just blame Zelenskyy. I also blame greedy corporate interest that doesn’t care how high the body count goes and how many communities are destroyed as long as they get control in the end. Russia sees a more western Ukraine as a threat. NATO, which wants to expand, is literally an anti-Russian alliance. Solving this conflict, or better yet, avoiding it, would require leadership and morality from the US. We’re severely lacking in both departments.

        • Well, let’s look at the details of “peace talks” with Russia. After every agreement to evacuate the civilians from a war zone, when the Ukrainians assembled the refugees, the Russians opened fire on the busses. Do you really believe that peace talks with such animals are possible?

    • Dude, have a look at that building in the lead photo; one of the same four you see in every pic. Where’s the fire damage, the soot, the blackened window frames still with bits of glass in them? Why are pieces of fencing on the top of the debris pile?It’s staged; that building has looked like that for years. Look at those ‘freedom fighting’ carollers in the same pic: not a spec of dirt or dust to be seen on any of them. Not a scuffed knee or elbow, not one finger smudge on their freshly shaven faces or one scratch on their guns. Those burnt out tanks look like they’ve been there for two years judging by the rust and the saplings abutting them. It’s all horseshit. If Russia wanted ukraine to be a parking lot, it would be. It’s amazing how the very same people here who decry the media as nothing but lies are all so quick to jump on their bandwagon as soon as the big bad USSR is involved. And to listen to that same media you would think tens of thousands of russian soldiers have died without firing a shot other than at two schools. It’s like an interactive movie with drooling retards as the participating but captive (yet paying) audience. The critical mind boggles.

      • @Rider/Shooter, Yeah what’s with those rusty tanks? That’s weird. It’s difficult to tell how much death and destruction there’s been so far because of all of the propaganda coming from both Ukraine and Russia. I don’t trust information from the US either. They’ve already admitted to lying about the conflict. The UN reported that 14 million Ukrainians have been displaced from their homes. Half of those have left the country altogether. Imagine living like that. Any way you look at it, it’s a bad situation.

        • A burned tank/apc will rust rapidly in the winter snows and the spring rain, of which there is a lot in Ukraine. The high heat of their burning ammunition eliminates all protective coatings. And think about it, do you really think that the Ukrainians would leave a massive amount of burned out armor littering their roads for years? Add to that all of the videos of blasted and burning buildings as well as Putin’s admission of a “special operation” in Ukraine, and it is impossible to deny that there is a war going on there that is not in the least bit fake.

        • The temperatures reached from burning propellant (say 650 degF and up) will expose hot steel to air and oxidize it immediately. Just like if you weld or braze on steel it’s bright orange next day.

    • to Dud Brain

      quote————What’s the end goal again because Putin would probably commit suicide before he admits defeat here.————-quote

      One again another post by you seething in a racist diatribe that only the uneducated Far Right would make that know nothing about world history. The end game is that Putin, like Hitler, came clean about what he intended to do and that is reinvade all of Eastern Europe. The economic chaos and enslavement of millions of people is at stake here. Obviously you do not believe in anything the U.S. stands for. You only look at your greedy pocket book and your own selfish self interest.

      • “another post by you seething in a racist diatribe”

        Stop listening to the voices in your head and try paying attention to what’s in front of you. Please seek help.

        “The end game is that Putin, like Hitler, came clean about what he intended to do and that is reinvade all of Eastern Europe”

        Pure propaganda. Russia isn’t trying to take over Eastern Europe. Pearl Harbor isn’t about to be bombed. “We” aren’t fighting Russia in Ukraine so we don’t have to fight them here. Only a war apologist would say something like that. We aren’t preventing the Axis powers from taking over the world. Russia knows attacking a NATO country would be suicide.

        “You only look at your greedy pocket book and your own selfish self interest.”

        Yeah I want people to live instead of die because I’m greedy. There you go listening to those voices again.

        • Ahem. Putin has said on multiple occasions that a military confrontation with NATO is inevitable. One of his generals (stupidly) said that the goal of the southern front troops is to take Odessa and then continue on to take Transnistra. Moldova would be take as well. The ultimate goal is to take any territory that offers an invasion route into Mother Russia-which includes at the minimum all of the Baltic states and eastern Poland. Once you understand that Russia has been invaded multiple times over the centuries, and that it has a national paranoia that NATO intends to do the same, it all makes sense from their perspective as the only road to security.

        • Putin’s paranoia is understandable, which is why he invaded Ukraine. I don’t see a Poland invasion going well for them. I think they understand that. The result would be the end of Putin’s reign. Maybe the stories about his health are true and he’s going out in a blaze of glory.

      • dacian the stupid,

        “racist”.

        Quoth Inigo Montoya: “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”

        Or, an even better quote (from John Wayne in McClintock): “You learned a lot of words in college. I sure wish you’d learned some definitions.”

        You are a mentally incompetent @$$clown of an uneducated failure’ dacian the stupid. Do the world a favor and go commit sepukku. You are of no value above the ground; you should be underneath it, inspiring the cabbages.

    • If the gas fields in East are real, Ukraine can sell gas and half of Europe’s work force can rebuild it.
      Depending on amounts stolen, it can be full on Dubai style.

  4. I said this when all this mess started. Just a cursory glance at the innertubz showed that Ukraine did not have gun friendly laws.

    I said then that I would not take up arms to defend a .gov that did not trust me with firearms during normal times.

    • Actually, although Ukraine does not have anything like the Second Amendment, for a European country the gun laws were not too bad (even somewhat liberal, in a classical sense). You could walk into a gun store and buy a handgun, a silencer, or a semi-auto rifle. Carrying one around town (handgun) needed permissions, but it was hell of a lot better than anywhere else in Europe, except for the Czech Republic.

  5. If there is one thing that 9-11 and the subsequent invasion and occupation of Iraq has taught me, in *powerful* video imagery, is this :

    You cannot just give someone their freedom, they will not cherish and value it enough to keep it.

    The only way freedom is won and kept is if the people were literally (and I’m using that word correctly here) willing to die for it. Our job is to convince those that want to take our freedom in the false belief it will provide them security is that the price they will have to pay for taking our freedom will be too unpleasant for them to be willing to pay.

    EDIT – Nice pic of turret-less Russian tanks. A single $100,000 missile turns a multi-million dollar state-of-the-art tank into a few thousands of dollars in high-grade scrap metal.

    Merrica, fvck yeah! 🙂

    • To be accurate, Russia only has a very few “state-of-the-art tanks”. That would be the T-14 Armata. Unknown if it actually works as is not combat tested. Every thing else they have (used/lost)is just Cold War retreads in various derivatives.

      • It is said that there are no more than 20 T-14s. All hand built prototypes. The T80 is a hybrid T64 and T72 with a gas turbine engine. The T90 is a further developed T72. The most common tank in Ukraine is the T72BVM.

        There have been reports of the 1960s ers T62s being moved from storage. Hopefully as training tanks as they will be completely inadequate against modern AT weapons. Or as the lead elements of a “zerg rush” attack to soak up enemy fire.

        • The Austrian analyst pointed out t-62 are great as mini mobile artillery
          Kept far enough back to reduce ATM deaths, can offer good value.
          Lots of unfit conscripts to crew them.

  6. Ukraine isn’t going to defeat the Russian invasion. It’s not Russia that is going to collapse, it’s the West.

    • Y. But should the headline be more like “Do Nazis and Oligarch sponsored puppets in corrupt buffer states value freedom and gun rights?”

    • Russian military really sucks, bad. Like they’ve failed in ways even Saddams army didn’t. I can’t even begin to describe the multitude of things they’ve failed in because it would take a book to write about it all. I don’t think Russia has any chance to “win” under current conditions.

      But it is possible the west could collapse economically, and then support to Ukraine dries up, and Russia eventually wins through sheer numbers. Russia has proven they are still more then willing to toss thousands of men into a meat grinder and still shoot their own men in record numbers.

      • To get an idea of how bad, all you need to realize is that Russia has gone back to World War I tactics because it is incapable of combined arms maneuvers. Yes, meat grinder, just as it was a hundred years ago. Massive artillery barrage followed by an infantry attack supported by tanks. Its aircraft are flying solo missions, not coordinated attacks. They have no close air support. All the lessons they’d learned in the past have been forgotten.

        • Russia is not the old soviet union. They have a population of less than 145 million now.

          All human wave style attacks will do is deplete their manpower to the point where they cannot exist as a nation any longer.

      • Yep Ukrainian parliament just passed a law authorizing Ukrainian commanders to shoot Ukrainian soldiers in the back if they try to surrender to Russia.

        Talk about “DEMOCRACY”!!!

        • “Yep Ukrainian parliament just passed a law authorizing Ukrainian commanders to shoot Ukrainian soldiers in the back if they try to surrender to Russia.”

          Ukrainians learned this tactic, and much more, from the Russians. Seemed to work for the Russians at Stalingrad, and elsewhere. (The Wehrmacht wasn’t so good at it)

        • How well would it go over in history if say an American soldier surrendered to the enemy (unnecessarily)?
          I think being murdered is a high probability.
          Same for all nations in an existential war.
          Stalin’s peasant army often had enemy soldiers who didn’t want to fight against their own side but did to avoid instant death and many Russian peasants had no concept of the nation of Russia they only knew to match “that way” or die.

        • From major news feed “ The relevant passage of the bill, referring to “insubordination of the soldier, defiance or challenge to the commander, use of violence, abandonment of battle station or designated premises”, states: “In a combat situation the commander may use weapons or give orders to subordinates on their application, if no other way to stop the offense exists, without causing the death of the other party.”

    • Resent reports suggest that the Russian economy is on the verge of collapse. Increases in benefits have not kept pace, and of course the flow of Western goods has evaporated. Russia cannot replace the equipment it has lost because it lacks both the computer chips and the trained workforce to build them at the same rate as they are losing them. In fact, Russia is pulling 1960s era T-60 tanks out of cold storage (literally–they have been parked outside) and shipping them to Ukraine. When its gas receipts get cut in half, its economy will collapse.

      Then there is the problem with casualties. Russia has not admitted how many have been killed or wounded, and Ukraine reports that Russia refuses the return of Russian bodies–a ploy to avoid alerting the Russian population as to how bad the slaughter has become. Russia raised the maximum age to volunteer for military service to 50, and if the war continues at its current pace, a national conscription law up to age 50 will follow. Once its people learn that tens of thousands are wounded or dead, discontent will set in, and the captive media will no longer be able to keep things under wraps. Then we will see what happens.

      • The classic response is “bread and circus”. I wonder how much cash Putin has access to he can gift to the population? If he could double military salary he would have all the wet bodies needed. A big problem in Russia is they have even more FAS / crack babies than others. Back 20 years ago when women were pregnant, the use of street drugs and alcohol was higher than today. As a result, from a group of 100 young men, more are incapable of functioning in a military role. No matter how much you punish them they cannot avoid lashing out and in general struggle to use sophisticated equipment. As I look around for numbers I find the low number is 5% and high is 12%. That’s a lot of drag.
        The only strategy that is showing is Russia to use long range artillery until they mush up a place they can walk in. The west is too timid to provide the quantities of superior artillery and counter battery radar as well as missiles to counter. Unless these weapons show up, winter will come and Germany will do all it can to keep the heat on and Russia will be able to depopulate Ukraine of Ukrainians and can send in impoverished Russians to breed more FAS babies in squalor.

      • Stop drinking the COOL-AID being served by the West MSM/INTEL sources.

        Russian ruble is not “DEAD”!!

        Russian oil still flows to the rest of the world..

        US just purchased Russian oil by way of gas, refined in India!!!

        • It may be that the Russian military will become increasingly worried about the depletion of qualified soldiers and equipment and insist on withdrawing until they can rebuild using all that oil money. They are losing men and machines a 100x faster than they can be replaced.

        • JRM
          Why do you describe Russia’s military as 99% intact?
          The analysts I read are showing a different math. They point out for example that Russia does have many thousands of tanks on reserve but these lack even basic upgrades. We can see tanks in Ukraine equipped with infrared search lamps obsolete in 1975. So in terms of skilled combat arms people, modern equipment, precision guided munitions, Russia is heavily compromised. Although all wars are “come as you are” since say 1980, Russia has very little manufacturing capacity to replace aircraft and PGM. They do have plenty of artillery.

        • So Richard you ask a question but don’t allow a reply???

          Russia has only sent less than 300,000 troops into Ukraine!!!

          Russia’s military remains intact.

          BBC even ran a story about how long the lines were in FEB in Moscow at recruiting stations.. The BBC reporter slammed the Russian women who were in line, to join the Russian military, and admitted the majority of the women they interviewed stated they would be willing to go to Ukraine and fight.

          Also many of the men were volunteering to join the Russian military, besides the men that were required to do their year service.

          Contrary to the WEST MSM/INTEL sources, Putin still has the support of the Russian people.. He is not “DYING”!!

          How about the anti-war protesters protesting in USA/Britain against our wars we launched??

          So the anti-war protests in Russia are “NOTHING” but hyped by the West MSM/INTEL agents!!

          It is clear you are drinking the cool-aid, Russia has been manufacturing aircraft for decades, along with tanks, armored vehicles. They even started manufacturing domestic drones in the last few years!!

      • Why? It’s like only the west notices the west (other than Islamic hatred if they can’t manage to emigrate here). If ‘we’ collapse then the rest of the shithole countries will just keep on being shitholes. What do they care if they can’t look at pictures of skinny broads in levis anymore?

  7. Small arms do not win wars, rather its billions invested in heavy firepower.

    Even as far back as the ill-conceived American Revolution it was French money, the French Navy, the French Generalship and the well trained professional French Army that won the war for the ill trained , ill equipment. and incompetently led rag tag band of American Hillbillies.

    • That’s really not true at all.

      I’ll spend mo time with a rebuttal to your points because you are so incredibly stupid the only thing you deserve is childish name calling.

      • Agreed.
        What we see now is not Russia winning a war where you conquer and occupy and tax the losers and grow your empire. But Russia is succeeding in grinding up infrastructure and depopulating the region. This can work for them as this gives them access to the gas fields.

    • dacian, the Dunderhead, I have a RED HOTY NEWS FLASH for you. It’s boots on the ground that win wars after your big weapons do a part of the job. And boots on the ground means people will GUNS! Opps ther eis that dirty word. You are no more of a “military expert” than you are a “gun expert”. Still don’t know the firing sequence of a cartridge, huh?

      • to Walter the Beverly Hillbilly

        quote————-Still don’t know the firing sequence of a cartridge, huh?———–quote

        You have been called out by other posters to answer your own question which you are too terrified to answer because you know I will tear you to pieces on it. By the way its a stupid question but not for the reasons your pea brain imagines.

        • ROFLAMOBT NAME ’em Lefty. Seems the one being town up where is you.
          Now see if you can tackle the question.
          What is the firing sequence of a cartridge?

      • Jesus wally, are you drinking? That’s some poorly laid out and executed “edifimicashun” even for a lying meathead like you. You ok, bro? I feel vaguely concerned… an honored veteran at your (necessarily) ripe old age shouldn’t be getting so excited. Did 6yrs as a cop teach you nothing?

        • And for the one hundredth and thirty second time ttag: fuck your moderation bullshit.

        • Riderless/Shootoff Canuck. Seems your education was sarely neglected.
          it was 10 yrs are a police office, numnutz! They say hiring the handicapped is fun to watch. you prove it.

        • Oddly enough, are you d_rink_ing was the moderation trigger. Try posting that alone. WordPress stinks.

    • Nice try, but wrong! Typical leftist bullcrap answer because you hate the idea of an armed populace and love the totalitarian left. If you actually want to educate yourself to understand the American Revolution there are loads of books on the subject, but I have better things to do than try to educate you.

        • “This number is probably inflated by Ukrainian authorities, but estimates from Western intelligence report a Russian death toll that’s still much higher than the one the Kremlin is officially recognizing.”

          They admit they’re pushing propaganda within the article. They don’t even mention the Ukraine death toll. They don’t want us to think about that because Ukraine good, Russia bad. That’s all we need to know, so let’s celebrate more Russian death.

        • Dude, Ukraine is reporting its casualties as much as Russia–which is not at all. They have admitted that the death toll is high without giving a number, except for 100 a day dead in Sievierdontsk.

        • Why would anyone believe the propaganda ? No one on tv or almost anywhere else if telling the truth. Partly be cause almost no one knows it. Not a strategist on here.
          If you send a army group to one place with no intention of taking it you tie down a larger army to protect it.
          If you are trying to protect civilians you leave a way out.
          Russia has every time. The Ukrainians have blocked people and goods from leaving.
          Minsk please.
          At least try and understand what happening.
          Don’t act like Biden !

        • There’s an analyst on you tube that used a team to verify all the dead and equipment and compared kill rates to know equipment population.
          To jump to the conclusion, he found Russias claims absurd, in that they claimed to have destroyed more of Ukraine equipment than they ever owned.
          Roughly he calculated Russia exaggerated by 5x
          Ukraine by 2x

        • This is a complete “GUESS” not “FACTS”!!!

          And there is a difference in Ukrainian manned Russia/Soviet vehicles and Russian manned Russia/Soviet vehicles.

          I noticed that a lot of destroyed equipment has “V” on them, which is what the Ukrainians have on their vehicles, while the Russian are using “Z”!!!

    • Good, sweet baby Jeebus on a frickin’ nuclear-powere pogo stick, dacian, you ignorant slut (wannabe),

      Tell that to the Vietnamese, dacian. Blow it out your @$$, @$$clown. No amount of “firepower” is effective against a dispersed, supported guerilla movement, UNLESS you are enough of a Leftist/fascist idiot (such as, for example, you and MinorIQ) to actually believe “scorched earth” is an ‘effective’ strategy. Michigan is infamous for hosting local militia. Planning to nuke Detroit, you ignorant, uneducated f***????

      Go suck off MinorIQ; he MIGHT be willing to listen to your insane, uneducated drivel in exchange for a BJ.

  8. It’s nice to think people are fighting, bleeding and dying for their loved ones and themselves but they’re just fighting bleeding and dying fighting for the state against another state. Neither of which will “let” them keep their arms.

    The only way I’d bother fighting against another state on behalf of my state is if I knew my state respected my individual liberty. Well, it doesn’t. I wouldn’t raise a rifle for the US of today. Why bleed and die for a state that actively hates you?

    • The invasion of Ukraine failed for one reason, the troops they were fighting were just like themselves. While we have been seeing evidence of true atrocities by some, the majority are appalled at just being there, and their utter lack of motivation demonstrates that.

      That’s why their generals are being picked off in high numbers, the grunts have little motivation to press the attacks, so the generals are forced to the front lines, and the Ukraine army can spot them and their snipers deal with them. It’s also why US generals look identical to the grunts unless close up. They learned that lesson long ago…

      • Another aspect is that Russia has a national conscription law that requires one year of service. None of those soldiers are supposed to be sent into combat, and many have neither the training nor the proper equipment to do so. (Only “contract” soldiers are supposed to go into combat.) Yet there they are at the front. They are rebelling, in small numbers at present, but the numbers may grow. At least one Russian general found it necessary to jump into his “jeep” and flee before he got shot.

        • “Another aspect is that Russia has a national conscription law that requires one year of service. None of those soldiers are supposed to be sent into combat,…”

          And it’s their special forces that are taking some of the most grievous losses, their so-called professional troops getting chewed up and spat out. They wanted a military career beyond the mandatory 1-year conscription…

  9. If Ukraine wins they sure better, if they know what’s good for them.

    To turn on gun rights after such a war would be the epitome of stupid, but it sure has happened before especially in that region of the world. If that happens I would hope the Ukraine citizens say “come and take them”.
    But, again, it seems very few countries are willing to do that.

    In order for Ukraine to win they’re going to have to learn how to fight offensive war, which can be done, but is more complex and expensive then pure defense, and takes actual effective leaders in combat. As the Russians have proven very few countries are actually up to the task of being able to effectively preform offensive warfare.

    • Ukraine cannot win a battle of attrition. Russia can keep throwing troops and hardware at them until they are defeated, and that will happen because Putin will not stop until that happens.

      Even if Putin dies from the cancer eating him, he’s chosen a successor every bit as evil as he is to complete the task.

      And bad news, in a few years, the newly-rebuilt Russian army will have learned some lessons from the conflict they will use on their own people when the food riots happen when the world economy collapses… 🙁

      • The former Soviet province is barely a tick better than Russia. Presidon’t poopy pants needed to prop them up cause Hunter got a bundle from them. And Bidumb blames Russia for everything. BTW where is the rest of Europe supporting Ukraine??? Don’t look for an American style 2nd Amendment…

      • I’m not so sure about that, because Russia is historically pretty bad at war. Their track record is downright piss poor and they really fail to learn lessons and apply what they’ve learned. I don’t think they can regain the initiative as it stands, unless support from the west drops off due to as you pointed out, severe economic reasons. This is a very real possibility.

        But Russian military will likely remain brutal, causality high, and foolish. The biggest shocker of this war to me was their lack of even basic wartime abilities and a lack of knowledge of even their own history which they glorify. Even if economic factors force the west to withdraw support and Russia wins, they will likely still lose tens of thousands more men in the process.

        They have certainly shown however they are still quite ok with that.

      • Demographically, the Russian birth rate is less than replacement; its population is shrinking and immigrants are not moving there. Where are the troops going to come from? Further, only the elite are getting an adequate education; the journeymanship programs to train new workers in technical skills has collapsed. This whole was is Putin’s swansong, his dream to protect the homeland from Western aggression, so he will not back down. But the cost may prove to be too high.

        • Mark,

          Hmmm. Much of that sounds strangely familiar. I wonder why?? Don’t gloat too hard, Mark, the Leftist/fascists have been busily implementing the EXACT SAME ideas and programs here.

          I have two undergraduate degrees, and two graduate degrees. My boys have between them three degrees (soon to be four), and both my girls are in college. The first thing I did with each of my kids when they started driving was to teach them to change a tire (and make them do it), check and fill the oil, check the coolant, etc. Both my boys can swap out a light switch. Being TRULY “educated” is only inconsistent with being life-competent to ignorant, uneducated morons like dacian the stupid and MinorIQ. If people of intellect choose to be uneducated morons, who is to blame for that???

        • Agreed.
          I suspect the theft of worn and children is an attempt to bolster the Russian population.
          A larger portion of women in Russia are unable to produce healthy children due to alcoholism and tuberculosis. The larger rate of damaged children born with fetal alcohol syndrome and underweight due mothers TB will be unsuitable for the military. Last chance to grow the empire

      • The rumor mill has it that his successor, one of the KGB old guard, is the most hated man in the Russian government. He may not survive Putin’s death.

        • Bump him off, and numbers 2 through infinity will still be bad… 🙁

      • Putin has fully recovered from his illness, according to WEST Intel sources!!!

        Since it seems that the vast majority of the posters on this site, is drinking the Cool-Aid they are being served!!

        • Regarding the “Z” and “V” both are Russian markings.
          The basic reason Russian armor losses are so high is incompetence. This isn’t subtle. Those long columns with mud on each side of the road??
          The list is long. But losses have slowed as Russia is adapting and now they better protect against drones and hide in scrapes more. Soon there will be hundreds of T/62 tanks out with glass optical sights using their 105 cannons because they have lots. They are worth less money than a high tech ATM. That is their main survival strategy- they are not worth killing.

        • Again posting and not allowing a reply..

          Get you facts straight the “V” are Ukrainian manned vehicles..

          Drinking the cool-aid again..

          The claim Russia was using “V” was an attempt by Kiev to downplay their losses when the foreign press starts showing all the destroyed equipment in Ukraine..

          BBC even showed interviews with Ukrainian soldiers standing beside their vehicles and they all had “V” on them, even the civilian vehicles the Ukrainian fighters are driving have “V” on them!!!

        • One of the things regarding tank hulks that seems to be overlooked, is the 2014 battle for Crimea (and eastern Ukraine). There were armor losses on both sides. As of yet, we have not seen any accounting for those hulks. Were they all removed, and what we see are losses since February? Were the hulks left in place, and what we see are old wrecks from 2014. Does it matter which?

          Excessive claims of battle damage to the enemy was vastly overstated during WW2, and forward.

          Russia in not going to admit they are losing. Ukraine is not going to admit they are losing. Water is wet, and daylight comes with the sunrise. Why is any of this even being discussed?

          Whether Ukraine wins, or not, the question remains: What does US and NATO involvement mean in the long term? Deterrence to unprovoked attack everywhere? Or catalyst for world war?

        • SAM I AM, you can add the NATO war against Serbia in Kosovo..

          90%+ Serbian vehicles and armor survived the NATO attacks inside of Kosovo, when at the time NATO was claiming 90%+ destruction of Serbian armor in Kosovo!!

          NATO got a black eye when Serbia withdrew from Kosovo, which embarrassed NATO brass “PROPAGANDA” War!!

  10. In Iraq, we called civilians with weapons “insurgents”. Heck, we killed civilians without weapons.

    I got a Silver Star for shooting one. I pray for forgiveness everyday.

    There is nothing free about Ukraine; pro-Russian people in the Donbass have been disenfranchised for years now. Now the Ukrainian government gets $40B to steal and launder. yay. Also- how much CNN do you watch? Russia is winning this war. Russia never wanted to take Kiev; they wanted to protect Russian speaking people east of the Dniper river. But hey, at least Kiev can still have a homosexual pride parade.

    • This is true.

      Ukraine isn’t a group of good guys. But hey they launder US foreign aid money so everybody in congress who miraculously makes millions per year on a salary of less than $200k LOVES that rotten Ukrainian government.

    • Russian propaganda. Ukraine did not get $40 billion in cash, they got it in arms shipments. If people on the Donbas have been disenfranchised, it is because they split off into their own countries in 2014 (supported by Russian troops and armaments without which the revolt would not have been possible) and have had “self-rule” (from Moscow) ever since. Putin’s attack on Ukraine has nothing to do with the Donbas and everything to do with his fear of invasion from the West. From the very beginning, he intended to take all of Ukraine, but that attack failed due to incompetence, lack of logistics, and absence of leadership. He planned to behead the Ukrainian government and then invest the country, followed shortly thereafter by an invasion of Moldova. Strategically, his next move would have to be an invasion of eastern Poland to cut off the Polish Gap invasion route. He always believed that a confrontation with NATO was inevitable.

      • Hey Biden shill.

        Everything you claimed is a lie.

        The $40B is on top of $700M arms trafficking.

        Just for reference, the Fed Gov shut down over $4B for the trump border wall.

        The Ukrainian army got WREKT. Reddit brigade including coward James Yaeger all went home.

        But hey- if you want to keep believing the same CNN that wants to take your guns away, go ahead. You are a Biden supporter.

      • “his next move would have to be an invasion of eastern Poland”

        Russia is invading Ukraine because they DON’T want a war with NATO. That would be the end of the current ruling party in Russia because they would be humiliated.

        • Hence the now nearly daily threats of using nuclear weapons. Putin knows he cannot prevail in a conventional war against the west, notwithstanding the weakness of the German military.

      • Well, actually, the $40B doesn’t exist. If you read the actual text, you’ll see that over half is never intended to get to Ukraine (or at least to stay there). Biden is Biden, and this time he has sent his wife instead of that idiot son of his to negotiate the kickback. Ukraine has no choice – $20B is still a lot better than nothing.

    • Oh, you got that right! Russia just wanted to protect Russian-speaking people in the Donbass by killing them by the thousands, raping teenage girls in front of their mothers, and then killing the mothers, by putting mines into children’s toys, by blowing up train stations when the refugees were assembled there, by opening fire on the busses full of civilian refugees after arranging the “evacuation” – yeah, they just wanted to protect Russian-speaking people…

      • Wow, your pretty far gone up the msnbc ass, aren’t you? Do you also dance with snakes with yer eyes rolled back into yer head?

        • My cousins, ignorant hillbillies who dance with snakes, don’t watch the snakes on MSNBC.

          A dance partner is not a reliable source for news.

        • “SomePeepsAreSoMouthbreathingStupidItHurts”.

          Sorry, moron, the “Struggle Sessions” aren’t until this afternoon; you’ll have to re-confess then.

        • I am sorry – do you not agree with something that I’ve said specifically, or are you just farting in the wind?

  11. The war in Ukraine is not between tyranny and liberty. It is between two authoritarian regimes. The government in Ukraine was not/is not a a free republic envisioned by the founders of the US. The US support of Ukraine is simply another manifestation of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.”

    A gun roundup was inevitable. The Ukraine government is recapturing the firepower of the public, amidst an unfinished war, because the Ukraine government fears that citizens will morph the fight against Russia into a fight against the Ukraine government.

    The tactical and logistical folly that if needed, the confiscated firearms will again be issued to “the people” is astounding. The Ukraine government is so fearful of “the people” that the government made a calculated decision to accept more death among the people during the time it will take to re-issue the confiscated firearms, and organize once again against the Russians.

    • That and those weapons depots will certainly be targeted by Russian missiles and artillery. Looks like they want to learn the hard way.

    • What a load of bollocks. As a soveriegn nation Ukraine has the right to choose it’s own destiny You are however s correct in saying thatvthere ARE Right [and LEFT] Wing Political movements in Ukraine just as there are in pretty much EVERY Nation on Earth, and none more so than the United States, but the general impetus in Ukraine has been towards a EUROPEANN TYPE of DEMOCRACY for at least two decades. Not without opposition considerable opposition, of course both internal and external. Ukraine is learning the lesson of politics that there has never in HISTORY Been the creation of a DEMOCRATIC STATE without considerable bloodshed.
      The fact is that the POPULATIONS of totalitarian regimes of this world like Russia and China have no conception of DEMOCRSACY and the SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITIES that go along with it.
      It is being ‘pushed’ that the West in it’s aid to Ukraine is not against the Russian People but against the Russian Regime.
      That my freinds is absolute bullshit.
      Of course it’s against the Russia People simply because it is THEY that have allowed, in the uniquely supine RUSSIAN way people like PUTIN and his gang to take over.
      There is an old very old Political truism.
      MOST of the People MOST of the time, MOSTLY get the GOVERNMENT they MOSTLY deserve

        • Actual,

          Why would you want to inflict that defilement on your poor, innocent hand??? What did your hand ever do to you???

          Albert the Subject is the poster child for Euroweenie “democratic socialism” – he never met a collectivist, anti-individualist idea he didn’t cream his jeans over. There is a reason we kicked their sorry @$$es to the curb in 1776.

          “War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things: the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth a war, is much worse. When a people are used as mere human instruments for firing cannon or thrusting bayonets, in the service and for the selfish purposes of a master, such war degrades a people. A war to protect other human beings against tyrannical injustice; a war to give victory to their own ideas of right and good, and which is their own war, carried on for an honest purpose by their free choice, — is often the means of their regeneration. A man who has nothing which he is willing to fight for, nothing which he cares more about than he does about his personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. ”

          “. . . unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.” Kinda sounds like the curriculum vitae of MinorIQ and dacian the stupid, dunnit???

      • “the general impetus in Ukraine has been towards a EUROPEANN TYPE of DEMOCRACY for at least two decades. ”

        Again, you’re a lying sack, Albert. Maidan was a western funded coup. Or, in simpler terms, the established government of Ukraine was overthrown by the US/UK/EU/Soros/Koch and maybe Bill Gates alliance.

        If you want to talk shite about sovereign nations, then WTF was all the west involved in overthrowing a sovereign nation’s leader?

        The answer is, we only respect sovereignty when we feel like it.

        • dacian the stupid,

          Clearly “fake” dacian – he almost sounded rational. A state which you have never achieved, even in your fever dreams.

    • “The government in Ukraine was not/is not a a free republic envisioned by the founders of the US.” — got a secret to tell you. Just between you and I — Ukraine was not envisioned by the founders of the US! That does not mean it is not a free republic.

      • “That does not mean it is not a free republic.”

        Any evidence that it is a free republic? Not that it matters; Ukraine is being sold as no different from the US is embracing individual freedom.

        Ukraine has the right of self-defense. Does any other nation have the obligation to assist? If so, what is that obligation? What are the risks, rewards and consequences of assisting?

        Zelenskyy already essentially declared the future of Ukraine is the future of NATO, the future of Europe, the future of the world. Does saying so make it true?

        What are the vital US interests in the war between Ukraine and Russia?

        What is the expected/desired outcome for the US?

        Is there a risk of nuclear weapons use? Is the risk greater now, than when Ukraine was Soviet territory?

        What will be the US response to nukes used against Ukraine? NATO? Finland? Sweden?

        How much public discussion have you experienced regarding US intervention? Is there clear consensus in the US regarding tweaking the nose of the Bear? Have the people of the US issued a mandate to fight for Ukraine, regardless of cost?

        What does “success” in Ukraine look like for Americans? What does failure look like for Americans.

        • Sam, I would venture that “success” in the Ukraine for the USA would mean wealthier politicians, while “failure” would mean slightly less wealthy politicians. Nothing more, either way.

        • “What are the vital US interests in the war between Ukraine and Russia?”

          There are zero interests for American citizens, just like there are zero interests being considered for the people of Ukraine. It’s about money, power, and ego. The main driver is corporate interest and greedy, egotistical politicians.

        • Dude, there is a BIG interest for American citizens. First the Ukraine is a speed bump for the rest of Europe. Second, when one person’s freedom is attacked, everyone’s is.
          Lose that Leftist “corporate interest and greedy” nonsense. Egotistical politicians? Yeah, Putin

        • “What are the vital US interests in the war between Ukraine and Russia?” I’m curious – if you see someone being raped, mugged, or murdered while you’re walking on a street, do you ask yourself “are there vital interests between you and the victim?” and, since there probably aren’t any, do you just walk away, or would you take a picture first?

      • OK, I’ll pick up the gauntlet . . . define “free” for me, Alexander. How would YOU define/elaborate the motivating principles of our Founders? Can you articulate them? How would you define “freedom”??? Hint: Counting noses ain’t it, champ. Our Founders were QUITE explicit about NOT wanting a ‘democracy’ – as were the Greeks, after they got a dose of it.

        “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep debating what they are going to have for lunch.” I p*** on your ‘democracy’, sir.

        • I had a teacher once who ask the class what was democracy.
          We all, being uneducated, chimed in “majority rules”.
          Teacher looked around and said, so I see a few more males than females. Shall we vote on mandatory Topless dress code!?!
          The particularly dumb students were deeply confused.

        • Richard,

          I like that story! Our Founders knew whereof they spoke/wrote. “Democracy” always translates to “rule by the mob”. For MANY years in the US, slavery would have won a popular vote – did that make it “right”??? Prohibition jumped through all the hoops to be adopted as a Constitutional Amendment – and it was STILL a dirt-stupid (almost dacianesque) piece of idiocy and fascism.

          Our Founders knew this, in their bones. dacian the stupid and MinorIQ still think the world would be ‘a better place’ if the ‘smart folks’ (in their addled minds, of course, that includes them) ran things. The concept of “leave people the f*** alone” is foreign to their Leftist/fascist worldview. I would love to persuade them otherwise, but they are not susceptible of reason, . . . so I mock them mercilessly, instead.

        • “Free republic”, as I define it, means it has fairly honest elections for all governmental positions (at least an order of magnitude more honest than in the US); basic human rights exist and are acknowledged, such as freedom of speech and association; private property is the law of the land; the courts are not obnoxiously corrupt (as they are in the US); the Law is uniformly applied to all citizens. Until the war, I believe that Ukraine had more of the above listed freedom than the US, with the last one being on-par (just as corrupt) as the US.

        • Alexander,

          And you are free to “believe” whatever floats your boat. That Russia is a fascist dictatorship, and that Putin is a fascist dictator, in unquestionably true. That Ukraine is anything other than a corrupt kleptocracy is a fantasy. Both of these statements can be (are) true. Don’t disagree that the US has become corrupt and abandoned our founding principles. How you make that translate into “Ukraine is a free republic” is an exercise in mental onanism that I shan’t bother to explore. Zelensky is “better” than Putin. For certain values of “better”, Zelensky may be “better” than Senile Joe.

          “Better” =/= “good”, FWIW. Ukraine is a corrupt kleptocracy. Russia is a fascist dictatorship. The US is busily corrpting the hell out of its founding principles.

          Was Hitler “better” or “worse” than Stalin??? Was Mao “better” or “worse” than Hitler??? Pol Pot?? Pinochet???Chavez??? Castro???

          Jeebus, do you even do reality, bro???

    • This ^^^^^

      All freakin’ day, THIS ^^^^^^

      As Henry Kissinger famously said, “It’s too bad both sides can’t lose.”. Putin is a fascist joke pig of a Leftist KGB dictator; Zelensky is Putin-lite. Neither country could find “freedom” with a both hands, a map, and a flashlight.

  12. There is world of difference between ordinary CIVILIANS joing hastily recruited mitilias as part of an OFFICIAL DEFENCE FORCE than a rag-tag bunch of gun freaks seemingly bent on CIVIL WAR. Ukraine is most definitely NOT a gun obsessed society and the average citizen does NOT own a firearm for the purpose of SELF DEFENCE. My grandson has travelled extensively in both Ukraine and Russia [and incidently in GEORGIA] and is a speaker of Russian Ukrainian and most of their dialects and whilst firearms are not exactly uncommon they are most certainly not as generally in evidence . Those persons volunteering in Ukraine for Active Service against invading Russians are being armed and trained by the STATE. They are NOT freelance operators are are subject to the same military disciplines and LAW as the Standing Defence Forces. Generally speaking Ukraine does NOT have a ‘gun’ Cultuire’ in the same way that the USA has and gun crime is in fact rare as compared to other forms of crime. My grandson, for instance has never seen a firearm in the hands of other than the Security Services and the Police
    We have by now all heard of the men of the extreme right wing Army Units that were beseiged in NUCLEAR BUNKERS under the MARIOPUL [sic] Steel works. The untold story is that Ukraine simply because they were becoming a real bloody nuisance to DEMOCRATIC governance in Ukraine. THey served their pupose by becoming a REAL and PRESEM NT danger -in-being to Russia [much like the largely inactive BATTLSHIP TIRPITZ was to the UK during WW2] and, by the way, there are STILL over 400 civilians and an unknown number of soldiers STILL in those bunkers!

    • Bruh, they literally have olympians, teachers, farmers, and normal every day people CONFIRMED to have fought against the Russians already – and have nothing to do with the Ukraine military with zero “training”.
      I agree with Ron: Just shut the fuck up.

    • “Ukraine is most definitely NOT a gun obsessed society and the average citizen does NOT own a firearm for the purpose of SELF DEFENCE.”

      How’s that been working out for them?

    • Prince Albert, you really should stop shouting. You will use all the oxygen in your tobacco can much more quickly. Anyway, I was trained and issued firearms by the government all of my adult life. Paid to carry them every day. Learned more from a citizen that had no government training. Met him between my military experience and my LE experience. You know why I never cared about giving the government back their firearms? BECAUSE I HAD BETTER ONES AT HOME!!! Did you hear that?

    • Albert Hall, British Subject, Well, you see, OUR Founding Fathers considered the entire male adult population to be the “militia”. Now I am sure in Great Britain, where you are a subject, it must be different. The United State is not the Ukraine, Russia or Great Britain. Now move along like a good little subject.

  13. It’s NOT GUNS in individual hands that will decide victory it’s ADVANCED WEAPONRY. Ukraine is NIOT short of bloody ‘ firearms’ it had huge stocks left from the Soviet Era and actually has a considerable manufacturing capability as well BUt by now Ukraine has armed up to ONE MILLION volunteers with smallarms butbvthey are of limited use in what has become long range and armoured warfare and BUT and a big BUT when Russia is forced to put boots on the ground to hold what it’s taken that’s when the fun starts Policing Ukraine would take up between 300, and 500 thousand troops. In fact when the West knew that a Russia invasion was going to happen in spite of Russian rhetoric to the contrary they had planned on supporting an INSURRECTION and IRREGULAR warfare by week three with the exception of some of the UK HIgh Command who had been trainging up the Higher Grade Units of the Ukrainian Forces. So Ukrainian resistance was not just a surprise to Russia it surprised the West as well and most of all the USA. It did not surprise the government of the UK who gave it six weeks.

    • Albert Hall British Subject. Are you sure you were in the British Army? If you were, you know that it is boots on the ground that win battles, while tanks and APC’s do contribute without the foot soldier there is no victory? So much for your anti-gun rhetoric.

      • Boots vs tanks? I’m seeing a major failure on both sides to master that whole ‘combined arms’ concept. Nowhere do I see signs of ground pounders working closely with armor and/or mechanized. Everyone on the Russian side wants to ride in a big target, everyone on the Ukie side seems to be dug in, waiting for the Russians to come to them.

        • Paul for your edification, if you know anything about warfare, you would know that tanks are ALWAYS backed up by infantry. But then you are so enthralled with tanks you can’t possibly understand the concept.
          Second, with today’s modern anti-tank weapons which have been given to the Ukrainians much of the Russian “tank advantage” has been neutralized.
          Third, the Ukrainians are dug in waiting for the Russkies to come to them because of those anti-tank weapons. That is the best tactic to use with an anti-tank weapon.

    • Hall should anyone take anything you stupid British have to say. Your pathetic military ranks behind that of the French these days.

    • Ahhhh, my old friend, Albert Hall. Albert used to tell us how happy he was to not be American. In America, he would have ridden the short bus to school. In the UK, people had no idea that he was mentally challenged – well – until he opened his pie hole. Then everyone knew.

    • You’re a lying sack, Albert. Ukraine was short on firearms of all types. Ukraine was training their new recruits with plywood cutouts of firearms, then sending those recruits to the front with zero weapons. They were told that when a soldier was killed, they could take that soldier’s weapon. Firearms, you idiot. Sidearms in some cases. Rifles. Automagic, semi-automagic, even single shot rifles and shotguns.

  14. Saturday sure brings out the morons at TTAG. Do you guys in St Petersburg troll farms get a 2 day weekend or something?

    • Some people have this strange obsession with Russia as this tough country that stands up to globalization and somehow is in the fight against western leftists.

      What these people fail to realize is Russia is the country that infected the west with leftism, and in fact it continues to do so because modern Russia not only loves its communist Soviet history, but also realizes leftist movements are destabilizing. Russia also isn’t “tough”, just brutal. There’s a big difference.

      • I wont dispute that. It should be recognized that there is a difference between the levels of resources, manpower, and wealth with these two. Putin does NOT need to ask other nations for support. Unless you want to consider energy exports from Russia.

      • There are more than a few people (some with wealth and power) that still feel the need to fight Russia with the same vigor of the 80’s.

  15. I love that Ukraine passed a tax law that captured Russian vehicles are tax exempt.
    “Hey look at my suv”
    “Hey look at my T-80 MBT”

  16. Cody Wisniewski, how ya doin, Polski?

    Why you accept Zelensky’s propaganda at face value? There’s a lot of crazy stuff going on in Ukraine, but Ukraine isn’t beating Russia. Not yet, and maybe never. Zelensky is winning the propaganda war, because western media supports him. But you should check the other side’s propaganda too. Balance the two streams of BS, and you might get a more accurate picture. I say ‘might’ because two streams of lying BS will never add up to the facts.

    Anyway – why is Joe Biden shipping billions after billions to Ukraine, when he won’t secure our own borders? I guess Joe just hates Americans but he loves lying Slovaks.

      • fRoM tHe mOUtHpIeCe oF tHE lEaDEr oF tHe sTUpId tRaIn hImSeLf.

        Moron.

        • “fRoM tHe mOUtHpIeCe oF tHE lEaDEr oF tHe sTUpId tRaIn hImSeLf.

          Moron.”

          Nope, still not “Struggle Session” time, yet. Wait ’til this afternoon for your self-confession, please. If you absolutely insist, you can sit in the corner with a dunce cap, if that will make you feel better.

  17. @Rider/Shooter
    “success” in the Ukraine for the USA would mean wealthier politicians, while “failure” would mean slightly less wealthy politicians. Nothing more, either way.”

    Which politicians, in which countries?

    • As a starting point, we could check to see which family members and acquaintances of American politicians have been profiting from deals and positions in Ukraine.

    • Sam, well I meant your country but I’m pretty sure mine and many others could be included. I don’t think Pelosi and the idiot manchild in Ottawa visited the front lines 🙄 of Kiev just to say hi and do selfies; they went to oversee withdrawals/transfers of their ill gotten gains. And prob to impress upon their fellow puppet zelensky who the more immediate personal threat is if he doesn’t toe the line, or whatever.

      • “Sam, well I meant your country but I’m pretty sure mine and many others could be included. ”

        Thinking Ukraine politicians, as well.

  18. All I know is gas is $6 a gallon and it’s all Putins fault.
    America thought it was funny when Russia had bare shelves, Hello.
    If , that’s a big if, UCrane does succeed they’ll take the gunms they gave to the freedom fighters? back.
    It was plumb fcking dumb to have Russia as a neighbor and then depend on other countries to save their asses. UCrane should have been tooling up since Crimea was annexed. Nope Zielinski thought he could snap his fingers and the U. S. would send in jolly green, because, you know, Patton didnt like the Russians.

    • possum,

      “UCrane should have been tooling up since Crimea was annexed.”

      But . . . but . . . , then there wouldn’t have been all that sweet, sweet ‘foreign aid’ from the US (after siphoning off the designated shares for Hunter “Crackhead Hooker-f***er” and “the Big Guy”).

      Ukraine is, and has historically been, a kleptocracy. Ditto Russia/’Soviet Union’. Let them all kill each other.

    • Actually it has, and has received lots of training from US military advisers. Russia expected the same rag tag army and militia it face in 2014; what it found instead was a much better trained and equipped military than in 2014, and that was a shock.

  19. The Ukrainians are questioning their preparedness for this invasion. Russia isn’t going to control the entire country. They may be able to get and keep the Donbas and Black Sea regions. If that’s how it ends, I could.see Ukraine adopting a system more like Switzerland, where everyone is at least trained in marksmanship to ve ready for the next invasion. Rather than rifles are stored at home, they’d propavly be in government controlled depots. If the Russians give up, and Ukraine takes back the Donbas, and, maybe Crimea, I don’t see them changing their preparedness policies.

  20. I said at the outset of this thing that Ukraine CANNOT win with small arms. I see pictures of destroyed tanks. You cannot destroy a tank with a Kel-Tec sub2000. Inspite of the craziness that Biden likes to put out there.

    I have no idea who will win this conflict but I have my doubts it will be Ukraine. Regardless of how much money or guns are gifted to them. Guns that Ukraine ends up selling on the black market. Putin will likely absorb them into Russia but who knows, anything can happen. What does surprise me though is that it’s taking so much time and resources from Putin to do this. I did not expect that. But THAT might just be a sign of the woke times because I do believe that the same things that have infected our military/government have also infected them.

    If the Ukraine people can learn to appreciate freedom and the power that being armed gives them then that’s great. But because of the kind of people running OUR country right now, THEIR freedom is costing US. But if they don’t start learning how to load their own ammunition and machine their own metal into firearms then none of this will EVER mean anything more than an exercise in futility.

    • “Guns that Ukraine ends up selling on the black market. Putin will likely absorb them into Russia but who knows”

      In other words, we enable war, current and future. What would they do without all of the arms we toss out into the world? We did a fine job outfitting the Taliban. We even built up their country’s infrastructure before leaving. They’re better off now than they were before we invaded them. Maybe people should start thinking about consequences of actions.

      • Afghanistan’s people never much pushed back on the Taliban’s ideals. That was always obvious. The west should have trained every woman in weapons skills so they stopped just committing suicide and instead took out an oppressor. The Ukrainian population knows what life will look like if they lose. Either they are dead, leave, or must accept mass rape and later deprivations and misery. After say 15 years of Russian immigration they might get some basic infrastructure again but under an economy with say 90% of all wealth siphoned away.
        Chechnya is a sort of model.

      • It’s just a lucrative game for them. And only the good people seem to die, mostly. It’s a fucked up world and it’s that way exactly because of these types of people. It’s a shame and an embarrassment, indeed an eternal stain on our species that we allow it to continue. Hell, many of us cheer it on.

    • I guess you were unaware that many Russian tanks and aircraft were designed and/or built in Ukraine. Although much of that industry was in the Donbas, some portions of it still exist in the rest of the country.

    • I don’t see any “pro Russia” here. I don’t see any pro Ukraine here either so what are you talking about?

    • “Takes a story like this to bring out all the idiot pro Russia fangirls.”

      Could you provide us a definition of “idiot pro Russia fangirls”?

  21. The answer to this question depends on how much of Ukraine is left after the Russian predators pick the country’s carcass clean.

  22. The government? No. Like every other government.
    The people? Yeah, weapons handed out to people have a tendency to get lost… and stay with the people. The people now know. But only to the degree of keeping it in a basement, not to actually fight for a pro gun government.

  23. @Alexander
    “…if you see someone being raped, mugged, or murdered while you’re walking on a street, do you ask yourself “are there vital interests between you and the victim?” and, since there probably aren’t any, do you just walk away, or would you take a picture first?”

    No comparison between the two. Which vital American interests were present when the Sovs took over Ukraine after WW2? Which vital American interests were present in1956, when the Sovs invaded Hungary? Which vital interests were present in Prague in 1968, when the Sovs invaded? Which vital interests were present in 2014, when the Russians invaded Ukraine and Crimea?

    Using your flawed analogy, if intervening in a rape is obligatory, why is the US not involved everywhere in Africa, simultaneously?

    Conflating personal and national interests is risky. Especially when facing a nuclear-armed gangster without full agreement on the part of the voters in the US.

    Ukraine is a European problem, to be mismanaged by the nations most immediately at risk. Ukraine was promised by the EU and Russia that being defenseless, Russia would not invade, and that if done, Europe would rush in to defend. If the US is obligated to intervene in Ukraine, it is morally obligated to interfere all over the globe, whenever/wherever bad forces persecute good people.

    Back to your analogy, are you seriously proposing that if someone across the street is being raped by a gang of heavily armed thugs, you will rush over in an heroic effort to die to no effect? Have you obtained approval from your family to do such a thing? Are your family OK with you landing them in grief and financial disarray in a futile effort that only signals virtue, without having any positive effect?

    • When Trump was in office, he made sure that petty dictators and Caligula wanna-be’s stayed under the carpet. Biden”s handlers sent a clear message to the thugs of the world that now is the time to make all their dreams come true. They specifically excluded Ukraine from the US cover, giving Putin the green light. Very likely, this was all arranged and Ukraine was supposed to fold in a week or so. Given how the new US fucked Ukraine, it owes it much more than just weapons. In fact, aside from lots of talk, the supply of weapons is specifically designed to let them bleed Russia, but not to win. If Ukraine actually wins, it will be a miracle, along with incredible Russian incompetence. But, the moral reason for stopping Russia is that this primordial evil cannot be allowed to expand beyond its borders. This evil cannot be described in a short comment. Its closest comparison is the Rape of Nanking, but a hundred years later. Those animals, if not stopped, will export this evil not only into the rest of Europe, but far beyond.

      • “But, the moral reason for stopping Russia is that this primordial evil cannot be allowed to expand beyond its borders. ”

        That moral reason must be applied, at all times, everywhere. The US did not have a moral requirement to destroy the Soviet Union as it gobbled up eastern Europe. Why now?

        Not only does the US government not have the backing of the nation for war with Russia (continued interference in Ukraine just might push Russia beyond rational thinking), the US has not had the moral fiber to defeat evil since 1945. All the US does is send messages, slap bad guys on the fingers, and go on and on without mission, or purpose. General MacArthur was correct: “There is no substitute for victory.” If you want war, be prepared to annihilate the enemy, or don’t even start.

        Trying to “bleed” Russia out of existence pretends that a death threat to Russia will not result in a vicious outburst of irrational response. Are the people of the US prepared for that? Willing to risk that? What evidence do we have to that effect? Or, is the public now the vassal state, captive to the myopic will of the elites?

        The US had no moral imperative to rescue Ukraine from the Sovs, prior to 2022. Why now? When Left and Right combine to wage war on the same target, be very afraid.

        • Putin and his entourage are simply thugs. Very rich thugs; they control 140 million people, but they are just thugs. Trump understood that and kept them in their place – they did not dare to practice their thuggery in the open while he was in charge. With the corrupt and spineless shit that is now smelling up the White House, Putin can do whatever he wants. He is not insane, or suicidal. Yes, he made a terrible planning mistake, but he is not suicidal to resort to nukes. Besides, he has millions of brainwashed serfs that he can send to their suicides. So, a direct war between Russia and the US (nukes) is not a realistic scenario. As to the Soviet Union gobbling up Eastern Europe – that was a direct consequence of the 1942 Tehran Agreement, when Stalin asked FDR for the entire Eastern Europe, and FDR, against the strongest protests from Churchill, gave the entire Eastern Europe to Stalin, just for the asking. FDR was a socialist and there is plenty of evidence that he was a communist sympathizer, as well as an admirer of Mussolini (in the 1930’s). So, it wasn’t so much that America had a moral need to protect Eastern Europe, it was that America sold Eastern Europe into Soviet slavery. Do you thing there should have been some consequences to that?

      • Sadly, it does seem like the west gives just enough arms to cause bleeding and not enough to end the war.
        The present horror of Ukraine needing to stand still while shelled so they can (whoever is left) can repulse a vehicle incursion is disgusting.
        With M-777 in quantity Russia would need to pull back or lose too much artillery.

        • The only exception is Boris Johnson, who has sent more weapons to Ukraine than any other nation. Obviously, he has disturbed the agreement between the ruling assholes of the world, so bullshit charges have been brought up against Johnson to expel him. And there charges are!?! – he didn’t follow bullshit mask and social distancing protocols while everyone accusing him did not follow the same protocols!

        • Alexander;
          Good point Boris has been shipping a lot of cool stuff. Those short / medium range missiles could do some bleeding if USA and Europe share the co ordinates of say a cruise missile launcher or ideally a surfaced diesel sub. Even just busting howitzers if there’s enough missiles to make a difference.

        • These weapons are not going to get very far, if they reach Ukraine!!

          Now there are reports lots of military hardware is vanishing once it reaches Poland!!

  24. @Lamp
    “Was Hitler “better” or “worse” than Stalin???”

    Stalin ran a more effective killing machine.

    • What about style? Hugo Boss vs potato sack.
      Then the guns. Every gun of the Reich I find really cool. Soviet Union WW2 guns, somewhat cool.
      Sure Stalin wins to the total death and misery competition, but the gulags were slow and just ugly. Hitler? Much weirder and faster killing. So the worst human ever prize goes to……???

      • “worst human ever prize goes to……???”
        Mao – 60+ million in 27 years
        Stalin – 20+ million in 30 years
        Hitler – 13+ million in 12 years
        other lesser marxists were less productive, although even their efforts, when focused on smaller nations, seemed very effective to an unarmed observer. And as a special mention, the Kim dynasty deserves credit for officially creating a Communist God and the appropriate sacrifice rituals.

        • So Putin really is just a Kleptomaniac.
          He hasn’t really killed even his first million.
          Maybe indirectly at this point.
          But he probably has aspirations.

  25. @Alexander
    “Do you thing there should have been some consequences to that?”

    As stated, the US should intervene anywhere any country is invaded by another. My proposition is that such a stance requires universal, consistent, no excuses deployment of military forces of the US….without respect to internal politics of the invaded country, without respect as to consequences. Essentially, the US must proclaim that it is the legitimate international police, obligated to risk national destruction as a result of miscalculations. The history of the US to be effective as international police since 1945 is abysmal, and has no victories to claim.

    As a result of the consistent failure of the legitimate international police to actually right wrongs (due to schizophrenic internal, and thus international politics) should be the guide to future foreign interventions. There is no national agreement in the US that foreign interventions should be pursued, even at the expense of an irrational nuclear outcome.

    If the US has a moral obligation to repel an invasion of a former Soviet captive, it had that obligation from the beginning, agreements and treaties to the contrary not withstanding.

    It is sheer idiocy to gallop into war, bugles and drums blaring, swords swirling overhead, if you haven’t made carefully considered decisions, understanding the consequences of failure, and rallying the nation around the mission.

    • Excellent comments and a clear view of things Sam, for a blind squirrel n all. Those morning martinigeurittas work well for you.

    • I happen to agree with most of what you’ve said, but remind you that supplying weapons is not the same thing as fighting yourself. The Soviet Union supplied lots of weapons to North Korea and North Vietnam, yet was never in danger of a direct US attack because of that. In this case, the US is supplying very few weapons, all of them having short range, while preventing other countries from giving longer range weapons. At the same time, the oil crisis that this administration created has raised Russia’s profits by billions. An unbiased observer may conclude that something nefarious could be going on here…

      • “In this case, the US is supplying very few weapons, all of them having short range, while preventing other countries from giving longer range weapons. At the same time, the oil crisis that this administration created has raised Russia’s profits by billions. An unbiased observer may conclude that something nefarious could be going on here…”

        – Supplying weapons is actually conducting war. Prior to US entry into WW2, the US and UK conspired for the US to claim neutrality, all the while supplying one of the belligerents (but not the other, as a true “neutral” should have done). The Germans were justified in sinking US shipping of war materials and supplies to the UK. Regardless of the intent of one party in an armed conflict, what matters is what the unfavored party decides. In this case, Russia makes the decision of whether the US is a participant.

        – The idiocy that results in the US siding with Ukraine, while promoting the financial stability of Russia is…well…idiocy of the first order. That Russia has not completely disengaged from any coordination with the US is also a puzzle. The whole thing is a political and international farce. Note that the US is sanctioning Russia, but paying a small price compared to Europe, Middle East, and Asian nations. Not to mention expending weapons that cannot be easily replenished in any military confrontation with China.

      • A very credible analyst concluded the USA wants to bog Russia down to weaken its military capacity to delay its invasion of the Baltic states and Moldova.
        His arguments were very convincing.
        Hence usa deleting the targeting pods off the M-777 rendering it actually inferior to the Russian 152 mm.
        Kinda sick watching Ukrainians having to sit and eat artillery with no ability to respond, waiting for Russian advance then the non dead Ukrainians can kill a few tanks then cycle repeats. It’s not sustainable for Ukrainian.
        If they surrender the Russians will rape every infant just like Berlin 1945. So they just have to die in slices. I’m sad about this.

        • “Hence usa deleting the targeting pods off the M-777 rendering it actually inferior to the Russian 152 mm.”

          This might be useful information:
          “Can US Artillery Stop the Russian War?”

  26. “Those morning martinigeurittas work well for you.”

    When I can find my way to the refrigerator.

    Actually, I am puzzled that so many people are flying off in all directions, simultaneously. As we used to say, “All airspeed, and no heading”. Of course the cry of the confused seems to fit: “When in trouble, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout.”

  27. The Kiev government gave away guns in precisely the same fashion as Transition Government of Russia did in 1917: because of desperation. There is no fundamental shift in policy, and because of the totalitarian, criminal nature of Maidan regime, they will seek to revoke the guns and disarm the population. Ukrainians may be freedom-loving, but their overlords are definitely not.

  28. when this war is over and if Ukraine wins it will be interesting to see what happens next. what happens when the government tells everybody to hand in the guns. what will the people do?will they just do it or be defiant? will they push for better rights? will they get rid of Zelensky? will there be another war, a civil war?

    • At the moment, Zelensky has support of at least 90% of the population (the only ones that don’t like him are pro-Russian separatists, but there are few left). So, why would Ukrainians “get rid of Zelensky”? and why would there be a civil war?

    • When USA took Kuwait back from Iraq the first thing they did was brutally suppress the armed resistance members and seize all weapons – at gunpoint.
      Even though they had fought the Iraqi at huge risk.
      Governments don’t like anyone to have guns.

  29. Given the current trajectory it’s more likely the death toll will rise and Putin will draft masses of useless scum and give them free latitude to “do like Berlin” and we may hit a million dead in fall. This would increase Zelensky support.

  30. Richard Kudrna
    “How well would it go over in history if say an American soldier surrendered to the enemy (unnecessarily)?”

    Hhhmmmm…..
    John Walker Lindh was not murdered
    Bowe Bergdahl was not murdered

  31. There’s a difference between war in Iraq and a war where if you lose your country is gone, your women and children raped, etc.
    I mentioned “existential war”
    Also, the Ukrainian law is for deserters, not men who surrender.
    I think private Slovik ? Was executed in 1945 for desertion.

  32. @JRM
    “SAM I AM, you can add the NATO war against Serbia in Kosovo..”

    I use WW2 as the benchmark for many things. It was the last war “won” by the US.

    About propaganda….

    in Jan 1972, I was at Da Nang AB, RVN. We listened to the Chinese english version of their end-of-year wrap up regarding the war in Vietnam. The Chinese claimed that in 1971, the army of North Vietnam had destroyed more rail cars, locomotives and trucks than had ever been produced in Europe.

    • Yeah Russia says they have destroyed 130% of all of Ukraine armed forces.

      I think any soldier watching these videos of Russians notices the lack of discipline, the filthy camps, the looting, the rape, the filthy vehicle interiors, the flat tires, and sees a lack of Esprit de Corps. The guys are fighting like pirates to get loot and rape, not fighting for their unit. The Ukrainians are fighting so their kids don’t get raped. This is why the Ukrainians have hurt the Russians so badly.
      I had two buddies in intelligence and, out of date sure, but they explained how all contact was analyzed and grouped. Satellite and aerial observed losses are all classed and body count estimated. Tire tracks counted, truck weights estimated, garbage analyzed ( ten men in ten days leave x trash), radio chatter is overlayed, etc etc in vast tedium until the vehicle losses and body counts and the big picture is very well known. Today add idiots on Facebook giving out tactical data. Of course this isn’t shared on the news but there’s a few independent groups fact checking what governments are saying. Russia exaggerates 5x
      Ukraine 2x
      So Russia has lost 18000 or so mostly combat arms people. So less than 2% of the total armed forces, true, but a painful loss of actually their best. Similarly they burned through huge portions of high tech weapons. They didn’t build up. Budgets got kleptoed so huge shortages and much equipment on books was only on the books and not physically extant. There’s a unit of armor that found out digital black boxes had been stolen to strip out the $5 of gold in the, leaving hundreds of vehicles useless.
      Russia is hurting and it’s capability shrinks every day, and usa is spending Ukrainians to bleed out the Russians. In two months Russian forces will have no hope of taking Moldova. There might be 150000 dead in all but Russia may implode shorty after. Unless adults take over, offer 5% of oil in reparations, steal only 50% of revenue instead of 85%, and in 10 years could take on nato.

      • “So less than 2% of the total armed forces, true, but a painful loss of actually their best.”

        Is Russia truly using their best? I have no way to know, but the performance to date makes one wonder. Thinking the elites are retained in Russia to protect Putin and the gang. Using the worst of the military ramps up the body count, along with the outrage inside Russia, leading to increasing support of the Russian people.

        Maybe the “pirates” are not being paid reliably, and booty is the way to feed the families of the “pirates”?

        • Actually salary was increased significantly in Russian military.

          There are photos of armored fighting vehicles packed with loot such the crews were impeded. Not smart.

          When you see a motivated fighting team everyone is pulling his weight. Every piece of equipment is secure.
          Fluids are checked, optics clean, status known. When we see the Russians in half uniforms, food and cloths scattered in the vehicles,we are looking at scum stealing the fight out of their own military. Anybody out there ever get reamed out for a loose shovel ? A flat spare tire? What was the truth I was told – “ you piece of s—t are a minor extension of this machine. You will respect it as your own body” or something like that. This is a military truth. Russia has a moral and material (manpower quality) problem with all the FAS teens and moms with TB.
          They steal and rape cuz they like that and don’t feel part of a good team. Basic training in Russia involves a lot of sexual humiliation.

      • Somebody who is drinking the cool-aid!!

        Ukraine was recently caught releasing a video of “BATTLEFIELD” footage which was fabricated by Ukrainian actors!!

        So don’t drink everything you are being fed!!

        BBC has shown Ukrainian soldiers in tattered clothes, panicking when incoming artillery..

        If Ukraine military is so professional why did Zelensky sign a law allowing Ukrainian commanders to shoot Ukrainian soldiers in the back if they try to surrender to Russian forces..

        Sounds like a “MORAL” problem in Ukrainian forces!!!

        The war in Ukraine has shifted in favor of Russian forces, eventually they will reach Odessa and next will be the Moldova border!!

        Look how long it took the US in Iraq and Afghanistan, the most “technological advanced professional military in the world”

        It seems you have deleted Iraq and Afghanistan from your mind. The war in Ukraine is 100+days..

        • JRM
          You appear to be a paid troll.
          What you write, such as the “V” markings and the “shoot in the back” is easily disproved Russian propaganda.
          You should return your pay.

        • None of the propaganda, or news videos from the combat zone matter. Only actual events can determine outcomes. We will know the end results one day, regardless of all our pontificating and prognostications.

          Dismissing, for the moment, the lack of national consensus on war in Ukraine, and the risk of nuclear outcomes, where are the calls for ramping up the replenishment of “weapons of war” being expended in Ukraine? Replenishment is not an overnight thing. What is the national plan for the interim?

        • BBC person in studio, mentioned the law when Zelensky signed it, even the BBC reporter in Kiev, talked about this “LAW” right after Zelensky signed it!!!

          She BBC person in studio even mentioned she couldn’t believe Zelensky would sign such law, in which the BBC reporter in Kiev, confirmed the statement!!

          So now BBC is “RUSSIAN” propaganda??

    • Yep and you don’t watch BBC interviews with Ukrainian soldiers in Ukraine who are standing beside their military and civilian vehicles with the letter “V”.. And showing Ukrainian vehicles arriving on the front in S. Ukraine with V painted on them..

      Biggest propaganda victory by Ukrainian INTEL to push the narrative Russia is using “V” on their vehicles..

    • Seems you can’t read..

      “The last line includes the silhouette of a Kamov Ka-52 Alligator attack helicopter, indicating that the gray helicopters are Russian, while the Ukrainian ones wear green or blue pixelated camouflage.”

      Ukraine does have their versions!!!!

      • Ukraine has helicopters but not KA-52.
        They would like to have some but they don’t.
        They just got a bunch of Mi-17 from USA.
        You are a paid troll , right?
        There are guys here that bring life experience into the chats as compared to your endless spouting of easily disproved Russian propaganda. This is boring. Go away.

        • I was going to ask how much you’re getting paid!!

          Read the story that was the export version!! Which is a red flag for me..

          So when BBC is interviewing Ukrainian soldiers who are driving vehicles with V on them and new vehicles arriving on the front with Ukrainian soldiers with V on them is “PROPAGANDA”??

          BBC also did an interview with one Ukraine’s mobile artillery units, a month ago, and lone behold they had “V” painted on their vehicles!!

          Ukraine attempted a rescue in Maripul using hips, the Ukrainian painted Z on them and were using Russian codes to try to get in, which failed and they lost all their helicopters, according to BBC..

  33. Russian aerospace;
    I work in aerospace and we used to have a design office in Russia and we have several great guys who emigrated.
    I enjoy talking to them about the old days when Soviet aerospace was awesome. Now it’s not. More missile designers moved to Israel than remain in Russia. Materials science stays strong but there are vast delays to obtain the alloys wanted. Avionics and ECM lack investment and manpower and all the recent stuff uses overseas components that now are very hard to get in Russia even at 10x the price. The United Aircraft MS-21 was a very nice project and probably superior to older aircraft on the market but was a global design using much western tech so is now delayed by at Least 5 years. The 5th gen fighter programs are short of people and budget. Engine programs advance at snails pace. Russia has some excellent products but can’t make them in useful quantities because the budgets are small and pilfered. The KA-52 attack helo is an example. Hard to make composite structure with shortages of resins and fabrics and some sort of electronic targeting pod unavailable so they fly around and shoot unguided rockets. Russian military aerospace / supply chain is a mess. Very little capacity exists. The total new build of fighters is below one per month, helo below 5 per month. If this was 1985 Russia could have blackened the sky with aircraft. Now they can’t avoid a rag tag air defense network and I suspect lose aircraft to component failures as often as enemy action. See videos of bombers lacking weapons integration so crew are in the bomb bay hand launching weapons.

    • The Russians aren’t 10ft tall, for sure. However, as they proved in WW2, quantity has a quality all its own. No matter how poor Russians are in advanced systems, enough old stuff will overwhelm an enemy.

      The question is, how inferior must be Russians be so that nukes appear a rational response to military bad fortune?

      The corollary question is what the “West” would do in response to a miniature sun appearing at midnight over Ukraine?

      • There is only one possible response.
        MAD requires it.
        What other possible answer is there?

        “Oh ok do what you want cuz we are ok being the bitch in this crowded prison”
        Unless the enemy accepts you to hit back with only an equal strike, or surrender instantly, you hit back with a matching blow. Most probably he launches everything at which point all human life will be gone in a few months so it no longer matters. Slow death in nuclear winter. Eating other dead things that stay fresh if sealed due the radiation killing all bacteria.
        If Putin orders it he will be dead quicky.

        • “MAD requires it.”

          MAD requires zero nuclear response to a Russian nuclear attack on Ukraine. Or Nambia. Or Buryatia. Or Burma.

          The NATO pact has never been tested. Is anyone convinced that US decisions makers of today are made of the same stuff as those of the 50s, 60s? The world wonders.

  34. Equipment being stolen and sold into “Africa” is Russian propaganda. They also claimed they were shipping in equivalent Poland in a disinformation campaign to cause slowdown of genuine Ukrainian equipment.
    I have second hand info that logistics inside Ukraine are running smooth with help of usa digital automation. Not a black hole.
    Russia seems to be doing ok as well logistically. Good supply of fuel now (they stopped using turbine powered tanks as they can’t fuel them), and plenty of artillery shells. But, severe shortages of PGM to the point they are repurposing anti ship missiles to hit buildings. If the west ever takes enough pity on the rivers of dead civilians, and let in the precision artillery, the war will turn immediately. Russia is maxed out and the next wave of 50 year old Alcoholic dummies will be even less effective than the FAS army they have now.

  35. SAM I AM;
    Good point.
    The small visibility I have on employee intranet for my parent corporate employer does gently describe some fresh industrialization for some well known systems being consumed overseas. The factory floor photos show a lot of activity.
    But to your point I haven’t heard of the defense act being activated to boost production of systems being depleted.
    USA remains a world leader in weapons capacity. Russia was also prior to 1990, but no longer. It is possible that intel available doesn’t indicate it’s necessary. Or is it just inertia? Or USA being quiet to avoid stimulating the enemy? Germany announced big spends for weapons production but then it seemed to go quiet.
    To annoy some Russians; many Production Engineers I have worked with adore and study the works of Albert Speer. The man who brought science and modernity to WW2 German production and delivered bizarre amounts of high quality weapons and materials from mostly bombed out rubble. He distributed manufacturing and organized tech data, exploiting early “wire photo “ machines to send out drawing updates. An amazing man.

    • “An amazing man.”

      I would limit that to something like, “Accomplished organizer”. Speer was all in on slave labor.

      Heck, we can’t even decide whether to replenish the Strategic Oil Reserve. Ramping up industry to rebuild weapons stockpiles is a whole ‘nuther animal.

      And lurking in the background….how does a nation stay prepared if the military-industrial complex is not fed robustly without the immediate threat of war? People ask me, “How many weapons do we need for defense, anyway?” I generally reply, “More than we have on hand at the moment.” The reactions are fun.

      • Agreed. One basic thing is to NOT shit down a line. We read fresh Stingers can’t be built until some component obsolescence is solved. There should be a steady small line and staff keeping up the engineering changes endlessly. You shut the line when you have the next better thing only. Speer would have been disappointed.

        • “You shut the line when you have the next better thing only.”

          Yes.

          As someone once posited, “You can never have too much ammo”.

          Now we need to persuade the populace, such that politicians “get the picture”.

      • I was wondering to myself what Speer would have said about the iPhone factory when the modern MBA flew from California to deal with the rapidly climbing rates of suicide. They did the business case and installed nets at the dorms to catch the jumpers. I wonder how the suicide rates compared between the iPhone factory and say the ceramics plant where my Grandfather was obliged to work?

        • “I was wondering to myself what Speer would have said about the iPhone factory when the modern MBA flew from California to deal with the rapidly climbing rates of suicide. ”

          Reading this comment is something like walking into the middle of a conversation between people I don’t know.

          Could you take a look at making things more clear?

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