“Nobody needs weapons of war on America’s streets. Nobody needs more than fifteen (ten? eight? seven? six? two?) rounds for self-defense.” Bullsh*t. A California restaurant employee is alive today because he had enough rounds in his gun when two men stormed his Vista eatery with bandanas over their faces and guns in their hands. If he’d only been armed with a revolver or mouse gun, he’d have been outgunned . . .
The employee, who hasn’t been named by police, was holding down the fort at Uncle Tony’s Italian Cuisine on the night of January 3rd. When the two gunmen tried to rob the restaurant, the employee drew his own pistol and opened fire. His combat shooting was better than that of most police officers: he fired eight times and managed to hit each of the gunmen at least once.
Police were dispatched to the scene at about 9:40 p.m., but the gunmen had already fled. The employee gave police a good description of the two robbers, including the crucial detail that both of them had gunshot wounds to the upper body. Less than three hours later, two men matching the description were located at a nearby hospital with similar gunshot wounds and very fishy stories. The unnamed suspects were arrested as soon as the doctors were finished stitching them up. They’re being held on suspicion of robbery, conspiracy, weapons charges, and probation violations.
This story illustrates some very important truths about armed self-defense.
The first truth is that if the chips ever go down, you can never have too many rounds in your gun. California is far from the Promised Land when it comes to rational gun laws, but if this employee had been living in SAFE-act New York and restricted to a total of eight rounds this gunfight would have run his gun completely empty. He would have been helpless or overwhelmed if there had been just one more bandito, or if he’d missed just one more time.
The second truth is that criminals don’t give a damn what gun-control laws might be on the books. The perps in this case were already hardened career criminals, already on probation for previous crimes. Who knows? They might have even been trying to knock over this restaurant so they could pay their court fines and probation fees.
In anti-gun California, armed robberies like this are usually described as “It Should Have Been A DGU” incidents. This one has a surprisingly happy ending, thanks to the employee’s preparedness and quick responses. It also hits close to home for me, because Tony’s is less than a mile from my mother-in-law’s house. I’ve walked and driven past it several times, because it’s just down the street from the grocery store we shop at when we’re there.
Full story: San Diego Union-Tribune.
I agree with the author completely. Although, the NY SAFE Act restricts round count to a total of 7 not 8.
Is it 7, or 7+1?
7+1silly. No more than 7 rounds in your mag is the law
Except armed agents of The State, since they have declared war on the American people.
How else are they going to shoot 100+ rounds at innocent newspaper delivery persons?
And David Gregory. David Gregory needs illegal standard-capacity murder-causin’ magazines to exercise his First Amendment rights.
If you know what you are doing eight is enough. If you are the average street cop 80 might not do the trick. We also don’t if action took such a short time that they did not have time to begin their retreat before the shooting stopped. How many times did they fire?
Eight is enough? Against ten would-be assailants? Would you wait for some of them to line up? A horde of ravenous zombies? Magazine limits are insane. Magazine limits KILL!
“Eight is enough? Against ten would-be assailants?”
.45. Take out your target and anyone within 3 feet….
What did they d0 undergo mitosis and replicate themselves. Ten armed guys walk in you better have a least BAR.
Let’s think about the scenario. Two armed guys walk in waving around pistols. Do you think they expected armed resistance? If they did then they either would have decided to go elsewhere or come in guns blazing. Since they didn’t do either we can safely assume that they thought nobody would resist. Right away that puts them at disadvantage. I imagine they were frozen in tracks for a moment or two with mouths hanging open when the good guy opened up on them. Do you also think he went miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, miss, hit, hit and then the bad guys thought it was time to leave. It probably happened so fast that they were just beginning exist after the first four or five shots. I don’t think they offered any armed resistance..Sounds to me that they were attempting to flee at the first sign that hey faced an armed man. He just happened to be a good shot.
80 might not be enough if youre a New York City cop.
@tdiinva
this article continues our discussion/debate from yesterday.
Would a 1911 with 7+1 done the job here? Just a yes or no.
He’ll probably be fired.
I used something similar on my .375 H&H for game in Africa. I love it. And it takes a pounding.
Whatever happens, never think or say you shot to kill, or anything like it. Your life was threatened and you did only as much as you had to, to protect yourself or family. If wounded dirt bags flee, good. If they decide to die, that wasn’t your intent. Department of Corrections firearms instructor taught us to say we “aimed to stop the action” and never say to kill or wound. Stick to stopping the threat or stopping the action!!!
My TX CHL class was light on the political rhetoric, but the walk through the facility to the classroom was lined with posters and bumper stickers full of it. Didn’t surprise me any.
On the other hand, I just shelled out a hefty membership fee for a range a pretty fair drive from my house. It’s a nice facility that’s noticeably lacking in political sloganeering, and that was a factor in deciding to join — I want to go for the shooting, not a political rally.
I have a great new movie idea based on this blog post:
“The Clown Militia Goes to Washington”
See also:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=clown+militia
guess cuomo doesn’t want to run for POTUS. oh well
Hell for all we know he might have hit them both with the first shot he fired and missed with all the rest.
I’ll bet his body guards have more than 10 rounds in their mags. Laws only apply to the common scum.
Correct, the NYS police protect the governor and police are except from the limits
12 gauge slug is anywhere from .50 to .70 caliber. But large caliber weapons shouldn’t be allowed, but shotguns should be allowed.. but M-15’s shouldn’t… wait, what the hell is this clown talking about?!
The M15 is a bus route in NYC. I rode it in my youth. The guy is a true moron.
A quick google search tells me there is such thing as an M15, but me thinks that guy doesn’t know what that is.
FUAC. This guy is such a freaking dipshit. And now you can’t even order ammo online in N.Y.. Unconstitutional IMHO. 2A means jack shit to this asshole.
No one needs an M15!
Disarm the average New Yorker, forget that bad guys can always get guns. DEFINITELY the way to go, you pea-brained SHEEP.
The law was passed in 20 minutes. It will take years for it to be struck down, if it is indeed struck down. Then NYC and Albany will try something slightly different to screw its citizens, and it’ll take another 2 years to undo that. Can anyone tell me why a law that restricts constitutional rights is able to remain in effect while the State delays and delays?
That’s easy. The criminals are the ones making the laws with the intent of consolidating power. Do you think that Obama, Biden, Feinstein, Holder, etc. would ever supports any limits for *their* bodyguards? Now you get the picture.
Yet another review/reason why I like TTAG.
Thanks Nick. I’ll stick to lancers and pmags.
I live less than 70 miles from NYC and I sure as hell hope the emanations of stupidity as expressed in those interviews can’t reach me here. Maybe it’s time to lead line the walls.
M-15…I want one of those! And half these people were mugged on the way home by a bad guy with a gun.
If ya gotta have the window, get a PMag with the window in it.. they WORK. My only gripe with the pmags is they do not have a 20 round clip with a window.. 30’s get in my way prone, but 20’s do not.
With hundreds of millions of rounds being produced and production facilities maxed out there is bound to be some defective ammunition produced. Even if the defect rate is one-eighth of one percent (.125%) with 100M rounds…you’re talking 125,000 potential defects…
Those idiots in the video would also probably want to restrict a lot of things. If you asked them if cars like the one Paul Walker died in were just too powerful and too dangerous for the street, do you think we should ban them? I am sure they would say it should happen because, safety. Nobody needs more than 150 horsepower, it’s for the children of course.
Less talking….
More insurrection, please
Do note the officer was fairly reasonable, cite and release and return the weapon, V lodge and confiscate.
If the magazine isn’t registered, then that’s an issue, and if he had more than 10 in it, that’s “illegal” too. According to the article, the officer didn’t ask if the magazine was registered which I would think should have been done. Also, if you had a magazine that holds more than 10, you aren’t supposed to load more than 10, so if he had number 11 chambered (why didn’t he?) Then there shouldn’t have been a problem.
So who gets to be The Stig at the TTAG testing range?
I make this comment because “freedom rifles” (you know what they are) are the whipping boy of the anti-gun movement. The one firearm that scares them the most as well as the other useful idiots.
Before 1986, owning machine guns was a rarity in this country. Even gun owners called those who owned them “gun nuts.” That sure changed when word got out they were going to be banned . More machine guns were bought in history at one time because of Ronald Reagan signing that law which still reverberates to this day with the high demand, low supply, and extremely high costs for only the super wealthy to afford.
Before 1989 owning a freedom rifle from overseas was a rarity. There were tons of types like AK’s, FAL’s, Galil’s, G3’s, AUG’s, FNC’s, 550/551 series; even a few FAMAS and Chinese Type 81’s made it over. You were considered a gun nut or un-patriotic for owning one. That all changed when an executive order was signed by George Bush banning their import unless severely neutered. Prices are now up to 5 times as much just on Chinese AK’s alone because we can no longer get them.
Then it came for the domestic freedom rifles’ turn like the AR-15, AR-18, and M14 (with Bill Ruger selling us out to protect his Mini-14). They got thrown under the bus too with the 1994 AWB. That alone was IMO the turning point for the freedom rifle to gain the ever increasing popularity it does today further enhanced by just the threat alone of another one a year ago because of Sandy Hook.
If the antigunners stopped giving a shit then maybe there would be less of them on the market to begin with. They are their own worst enemy.
I have broken exactly 1 firing pin in my life from dry firing, and it was on a rossi 357 that has an external hammer mounted firing pin EXACTLY like that colt has. So, to blatantly ripoff a TTAG staple, the pawn shop guys are wrong. Again. Still.
Also, its not ‘crystallization from vibration’ or whatever the hell phrasing they pulled out of their beards, it is work hardening due to repeated impacts. When you dry fire a gun like that, you are basically cold forging the firing pin, making it extremely hard but very brittle in the process, and one day it snaps from being too brittle.
Agreed. If instructors ‘on our side’ want to alienate liberals such as myself, that is nothing but counterproductive.
There would have been a time, maybe 35 years ago, when I would have agreed with Metcalf about regulations and rights. There was a time when being seen as reasonable by my opponents would have been important to me. I would have cringed if anyone had called my political opinions “extreme.” There was a time, long ago, when I actually cared what people thought and said about me.
But then I grew up and assumed responsibility for my life, probably around the same time I became a father and assumed responsibility for the lives I helped create. Funny how that can change a person. It turns the MDA moms into screeching birds, howling at the world to leave their kids alone, believing that safety is enhanced in proportion to the volume of their argument. It changed me into that quiet, lumbering bear that dares someone to mess with my child because I will f*** them up.
So many different reactions to the same stimulus: elitists like Metcalf say trust us; MDA says you cannot be trusted and must be neutered; POTG just tool up and say “if you bring it, I will end you.” My grandmother was so right… sooner or later it all comes down to character and responsibility.
But where can I buy a 30-round magazine that is externally indistinguishable from a 10-rounder? THAT I would be interested in.
An AR chambered in a centerfire .125 cartridge would do that trick. Now we just need to develop such a thing.
You know what we need now? We need Plinker Arms to make an actual 30 round magazine that looks identical to their 10 round magazine pictured above. (Alternatively, Magpul could make a 10 round magazine that looks identical to their 30 round magazines.) Then, we assemble 20,000 people at Sacramento, Denver, or even Washington D.C. and all those people wave a magazine in the air. Keep in mind that some magazines could be 10 round magazines and some could be 30 round magazines. There would be no way to know without actually handling one and checking its part number or actually loading it.
Think about that. Talk about a massive expression of civil disobedience. More importantly, it would be a huge positive public relations move for the gun rights crowd and a massive negative public relations move for the gun grabbers. What are the gun grabbers going to do? Send in the police to try and detain 20,000 people to inspect all 20,000 magazines? Then what? Arrest thousands of people for holding a piece of plastic with a spring in it? Better yet, as soon as the police start moving in, everyone drops their magazines on the ground and kicks them. At that point there is no way to prove whether someone was holding a 10 round “legal” magazine or a 30 round “illegal” magazine.
I cannot think of a better way to illustrate how arbitrary and silly the laws are regarding 10 round magazines. And what politician would want to be responsible for the arrest of thousands of people whose “crime” was holding a piece of plastic with a spring? It would be $14 well spent.
The funny thing is that these laws only affect the law abiding. It is like they are preventing some sort of pre-crime.
In the prevention end (in their minds) that mass shooting start with Joe Law Abiding blowing a blood vessel pulling his Glock out of the bedside table and blowing everybody in the vicinity until he runs out of ammo. He has no extra magazines, no extra ammo. In their minds, problem solved.
The thing that they don’t seem to think through is that every one of these mass shooting were prepared and thought out and whether someone has 10 qty 30 rd magazines, 30 qty 10 rd magazines or 60 qty 5 round magazines or 300 loose rounds & single shot the outcome is the same.
We the people don’t need any more rounds than LE or the military are allowed.
Send it back with Option 5 checked: Come and Take It
Saw the video. Thanks for the work. My wife wants a judge, but we live in CA so it ain’t going to legally happen.
My question is why can’t Taurus make a standard length cylinder for a snubbie in .45 colt, or ACP or .44 special. A smallish big bore revolver without the shot shells would get my attention.
I see this as an impaired gun. Not that the gun is impaired, but for the arthritic, those with carpal tunnel, and the diminutive or inexperienced. Not every gun is for the operationally bearded operators operating in operations.
Why do civilian disarmament proponents hate us? Because they are evil. It is only because of Stockholm Syndrome that we (good citizens) fail to recognize and act upon it.
It really is that simple. Civilian disarmament proponents hate us because of our worldview. They actively harass us verbally and sometimes even physically because of our worldview. They actively attack us (through proxy via our criminal justice system) when we are simply living our lives in a peaceful manner and have not harmed them in any way. They look down upon us with disdain and resentment and want us banished, imprisoned, or dead because we do not think the same way they do. Stated simply, civilian disarmament proponents are not willing to “live and let live”.
That, my friends, is the definition of evil … and all because we “gun nuts” are different, NOT because we are actively infringing on their rights to life, liberty, and property.