Sure, there are reasons why it’s not practical for some folks, but home carry can come in mighty handy at times. Like when two hooded doods crash through your door brandishing a fake gun. “‘This was a foiled home invasion robbery attempt. Two men wearing masks entered the cottage with a fake gun. A visitor in the home heard the commotion and fired on the suspects- hitting both of them multiple times in the chest,’ explained Pasco County Sheriff’s Office PIO Kevin Doll. ‘The suspects ran from the residence and collapsed in the sidewalk.'” Which is where they conveniently remained, “writhing on the sidewalk,” until they could be transported to a local hospital. And since no one in the house was injured, the satisfactory outcome was enjoyed by all.
Home Defensive Gun Use of the Day Defensive Gun Use of the Day: Pasco County Parry Edition
They wound up as victims ? WRONG
This irked me also.
Aren’t we *all* victims of gun violence?
Each, in our own special, special way?….
Wouldn’t ‘casualties’ be a more appropriate term?
Man just about every bit of phrasing in this video was unnecessary. The on-site reporter’s intro sounds like he is trying to give sage advice to criminals on their next score rather than showing them what they are asking for.
Interesting how the newsdroid went from “victim” to “suspect” as the story unfolded. Looks like he couldn’t follow the “party line.”
Victims of their own stupidity, I suppose.
It would have been more appropriate to say “went from home invasion suspects to hospital patients.”
The liberals – you have to remember the liberals think of the criminals as the victims. They protect them!!
“IT’S NOT THEIR FAULT!!” don’t you know?
Hopefully the next update to this story will be that these two thugs were transferred from the hospital to the morgue!
Please help control the criminal population. Use .45 ACP hollowpoints.
Exactly, both took multiple rounds in the chest, arguably it was effective in that they stopped the intruders, but WTF? Is this a result of shot placement (chest=good) over caliber?
Shot placement is the factor here. Head shots would have put them down pertinently. With maybe a “flyer” or two to the face and neck. However they were stopped and at the end of the day thats all that really matters.
amen those 380 or 9mm rounds just piss ’em off. lol
There is a difference between killing somebody “eventually” and DRT. A .380 can be lethal with proper shot placement. A .45 still needs shot placement, but has a far higher chance of DRT.
In order to further the medical savings planed in Obumacare I’m pretty sure on page 2973 it requires the use of .45HP (or better) for home defense. Think of the expense of the EMS effort for these two twits. The Presidential organizer wouldn’t allow that to continue.
Tell that to Trayvon
I did not see what caliber they were shot with. Are we guessing or do we know what they were shot with. .45 has its share of failures to stop and we’ve even seen some here on TTAG. A handgun, regardless of caliber is not a death ray. Bad guys got shot, bad guys ceased doing bad things so it was a good shoot.
That’s true, but it’s a bit hard to conceal cary a rifle. Not pistol round is perfect, but some are more perfect that others. I find it hard to believe someone can survive multiple center mass hist from anything other than ball ammo in .45.
Valid points, pwrserge. In my own home I have a pair of shotguns staged to back up my carry gun. 1 upstairs and 1 downstairs. But as a guest in anothers home I would be restricted to just my handgun. Still, I’m not a believer in the caliber wars, at least for handguns.
Hollowpoints fail to work as advertised. Not always, but often enough. For me in a self defense scenario I value reliability above caliber. I would not use a .22 unless itas all I had. But any of the “Cop Calibers”, .38, .357, 9mm, .40 or .45 are ok with me.
The lightest calibered handgun that I own and would use in self defense is my 9×18 Makarov. I don’t run it as a self defense gun because I don’t keep hollow points for it. But, since it’s basically a hot .380 it might be better to us fmj in it and go for penetration over expansion. It certainly meets the reliability criterion.
The Tampa Bay Times is reporting it as a .40 caliber handgun.
So the .40 isn’t a death ray either. This is my shocked face.
The survived multiple center mass hits from a .40 S&W? Those guys need to go out and buy lottery tickets.
Looks like the guest was following at least the second and last rules of gunfighting.
Obviously not loaded with Hornady Critical Defense rounds.
It’s hard to buy lottery tickets when you’re handcuffed to a hospital bed. They can buy tickets in 10-20 years. Depending on their behaviour.
9mm is a proven 1-shot stopper.
Just ask the Martin family.
So you’re trying to hit a target the size of your fist, that you can’t even really see, on a thug charging you… Good luck with that. The only thing I can say is… I’d rather inflict massive internal trauma.
“I’d rather inflict massive internal trauma.”
Then use a rifle. A handgun, in any service caliber, is a pretty poor manstopper.
In hardball, you are absolutely correct. With hollowpoints, a 1″+ wound channel tends to do wonders. Besides, I can’t exactly conceal carry a rifle. Not without a very conspicuous “crip” walk and some MC Hammer pants.
I have a “pistol” that shoots 300 blackout you can borrow. I carried it concealed for a couple hours once, mostly just because I could.
Oh dear christ. Every handgun round is anemic with respect to “stopping power”. Ill take more rounds of 9mm rather than a significantly smaller round count with no proven increase in “stopping power” in .45 acp. If you want to kill a home invader fast, I suggest a shotgun.
I actually still have some Black Talons in .45 ACP!
I use Ranger T series, same as Black Talons, but with 100% less of that “evil” blackness.
I love a refreshing news story in the morning. Good for the guest, I bet they get invited back real soon.
For a guest like that, I might make up the spare bed and ask ’em to stay a while.
What surprises me is that they were both shot “multiple times” in the chest and survived. Hopped up on meth maybe? Robert if you can do a follow up on this it would be interesting to see what happens next.
Must have been using reduced recoil .22 shorts.
Considering it was in Pasco County, I can pretty much guarantee that Meth was a contributing factor to this incident.
It doesn’t necessarily mean they’ll survive long term. It just means they survived initially. If the bullets missed the heart and major arteries, it doesn’t surprise me too much, if EMS was able to get there quickly.
“could wind up with a chest full of ammo”
I about spewed coffee all over the place.
I had two mental images conflicting. One, a bleeding thug writhing on the sidewalk, the other, a foot locker with shiny boxes of new ammo, ready to go plinking with.
“…satisfactory outcome was enjoyed by all.”
Uh, no. They’re still in “serious condition”, with no funerals anticipated.
That’s not a “satisfactory outcome”.
Pasco County seems to be a busy place.
Accompanying video panel to primary video:
“Brandishing a FAKE gun”….
Sorta like never bring a knife to a gunfight?
a happy ending!
“fake gun they tried to pass off as real”
I’d say they succeeded at that part. The occupants seemed fairly convinced it was real.
Yessir, they won the prize for having a convincing looking fake gun. The prize being a chest full of bullets. I love it when that happens.
In all honesty if they had just crashed into my house I would not wait to even see if they were armed, fake or not. Shooting commences at the intruders as soon as they’re seen.
“A visitor in the home heard the commotion and fired on the suspects- hitting both of them multiple times in the chest,” explained Pasco County Sheriff’s Office PIO Kevin Doll. “The suspects ran from the residence and collapsed in the sidewalk.”
“The two men lay there writhing on the sidewalk riddled with bullets.”
MULTIPLE hits in the chest – sounds like excellent front sight focus.
I love a happy ending – they “lay there writhing on the sidewalk riddled with bullets.” Appears to be a massive failure of the victim selection process.
Multiple center-mass hits on two targets? Nice shootin’, Tex!
I thought the NYPD said sighted shots weren’t effective in close-quarters encounters?
Are they still allowed to carry guns !!! ????
I was happy to see the part about multiple center of mass hits, especially after so many articles where they just graze the baddies, like the shotgun story from yesterday. How the f^ck do you graze a guy in the neck with a shotgun?
1. Open eyes.
2. Point gun.
3. Pull trigger.
As long as you get those in right order, at in house distances, you should be able to get a torso hit with a shotgun.
Hopefully, both will survive so they can get convicted and tossed in jail on top of being shot-up pretty good. OTOH, if the perpetrators both die we can take comfort in knowing neither of them will sire any additional mentally defective morons to plague peaceable citizens in the future.
I bet we won’t hear anything about this in the MSM National News. Makes having a guy with a gun in your home sound like it might possibly be a “good thing”, and we CAN’T have that.
I don’t know where you are from and perhaps you did not know this ( I am In Florida BTW) an Orlando police officer was shot in the stomach a day or two ago during a traffic stop, he will be okay after coming out of extensive surgery, They got the bastards and the shooter as I understand has 40 arrests on his rap sheet. So no I cannot agree with your first four words ” Hopefully they will survive”
That’s okay by me, Daniel. I don’t wish death on those who commit stupid, low level crimes, but that’s just me. And you are just you It’s all good. I figure it’s worse to get shot-up doing something dumba$$, then get convicted and thrown in jail for your dumba$$ery, and if they suffered long term misery from the wounds that’s okay too (like having to have a colectomy and crap in a bag for the rest of your life, chronic pain, etc.). So, I’m not exactly being a sweetheart about it and the Constitution forbids “cruel and unusual punishment”, but if circumstances cause things to turn out that way I can live with it.
Glad to hear the PO you mentioned will survive, hope his recovery is miraculously complete.
I am in Southern California.
Correct me if I am wrong but isint the use of even a fake gun during a crime an automatic 10 years in Florida?
Armed home invasion robbery is hardly a “low level” crime; it’s a violent felony, which often leads to further felony behavior (assault, battery, kidnapping, rape, attempted murder, murder, etc.).
I would also prefer deceased multiple felons to permanently crippled and/or disabled multiple felons. Who do you think is going to end up paying for their medical care?
You were correct about the “stupid” bit though.
@ JSIII, I would think it is a felony with some sort of serious mandatory prison sentence.
@SgtR Home invasion with a “fake gun” is still home invasion, so you’re right. In my view, home invasion with a “fake gun” is “low-level” in an absolute sense because it is unbelievably stupid and cowardly to commit any serious crime with a “fake gun”, particularly in a gun friendly State like Florida.
So, “No” I still won’t wish death on these guys. They are pathetic morons, but I don’t begrudge you or Daniel or JSIII or anyone else wanting them dead.
Chris costa was the guest in the home.
Kidding. But yeah that’s excellent shot placement to get two targets in the chest before they turned tail.
What I want to know about is the “Nugent Lawn Mower Accident” in the highlights bar. Did Uncle Ted have a “negligent discharge”?
A guy ran over his daughter with a lawn mower. She lost both of her legs. Nothing to do with ‘ol Ted. Sad Story. Google “Ireland Nugent” if you really want to hear about it.
Man, I read about that right after it happened. Total freak accident, but I can’t imagine the guilt that guy will be carrying around with him for the rest of his life. Awful stuff.
Sadly enough, and not to get off topic…but almost the same exact incident occurred last week in Tampa somewhere. I didn’t catch the details, but I was shocked that 2 people within such a short period of time would run over their daughter with a lawn mower. I got bitched out by my wife for making a callous remark to the effect that we should ban riding lawn mowers…you know…for the children. It was in very poor taste in retrospect.
Good play on sarcasm and gallows humor, though.
Regulate assault lawn mowers! Its for the children! No, seriously:
Does any of this sound familiar?
If the bad guys are victims they are victims of their own stupidity to try a home invasion with a fake gun in one of the most gun friendly states. They have only themselves to blame. The “shooter” and anyone else in the home are the real victims.
PS: Multiple chest shots, no instant drop, this is why I have a rifle.
One of the passers-by who stopped to offer aid identified one of the holes as a “through-and-through” which makes me wonder if the shooter was using hollow-points. Multiple chest hits and at least one “t-and-t” followed by dual survival make me think not.
Matt, hollowpoints don’t always work the way they should. Were these stout guys or were they tweakers that needed to staple their jeans to their [email protected]’s to keep them from sliding off?
I’m a fat guy. Hollowpoints would have all kinds of time to open up inside me. Hell, fmj rounds might get lost inside me and not make it out again without a surgeons help.
But I’m not an addict doing crimes to feed my habit. Most of these guys don’t fall into the well-fed American demographic.
But do you take your rifle when you visit your friends’ houses? It was a visitor who did the shooting.
Pasco is near
Hwy 97, the regional North-South drug route
Oh, good. Two more idiots for whom the Florida taxpayers will be footing the bill for the next 10-20 years.
Two BGs single defender, no injuries on the home team, two BGs incapacitated . . .I’d say everything worked out here just fine. I am a .45ACP kinda guy but I only engage in caliber wars when it’s humorous to do so. One shot instant incapacitation from handguns (minus a head shot) are relatively rare. More often this is the outcome, a short mad dash followed by incapacitation.
Even a dead man (that is, one with an un-survivable wound) often get the ‘dead man’s 10’, that is 10 seconds of continued (often limited) activity prior to collapse (usually due to shock or loss of sufficient blood pressure). This remains regardless of bullet type or caliber. In fact it’s actually an argument against the 1911 (my precious!), since the rapid ability to dump more rounds into the target in the event it advances on you after the initial hit(s) is highly desirable.
If anything, the terrific wound channels caused by .45 HP ammo do more on the back end, causing death later, than on the front end in causing incapacitation (though none of this should be construed as saying the .45 doesn’t provide some performance gains over other common handgun calibers).
The other factor in this is the excellent emergency response system and availability of highly advanced trauma facilities. A shoot like this in the 1970’s, or for that matter in a rural area, would most likely have proven fatal for both miscreants.
Not to spoil the fun, but the same shooting with the same ready access to emergency followed by highly skilled trauma care may well have produced the same results with a .223. To borrow a line; If you absolutely positively have to kill. . . then Uncle Joe might (finally) be right, a shotgun is the weapon of choice. 12ga slugs are about as close as it gets to a magic death ray.
Well, only if they sue the perpetrators and can recover the cost of cleaning up the mess. Blood on the carpet, maybe a hole in the wall or two. Not to mention the therapy/counseling for the victims in having to resort to lethal force. And the cost of ammo, that stuff is expensive nowadays.
It is sometimes amazing how fast certain PPL respond to unexpected emergencies.
I recall an incident when Audie Murphy was a dinner guest at his land lord’s apartment. In mid-dinner a former tenant, mentally unstable and armed bust through the front door. Murphy leapt out of his chair, crossed the room and hit the perp so hard that it broke several bones in his hand, the perp was knocked unconscious.
I believe his heroic actions in WW2 might have something to do with his reacting to a deadly situation. Another one for whatever reason left this world too soon.
dgu stories are by far my favorite ttag articles. when i get the latest edition of the nra rifleman magazine, i go straight to pg 10 (the dgu page)