Beaumont, Texas. A Walgreen’s parking lot at 10:18 p.m. Mister unnamed licensed gun-toter, maybe completing a late night diaper run, is strolling back to his car when a shotgun’s aimed at his head and it’s requested that his money make an immediate appearance. But the pharmacy customer’s gun was the only thing that appeared from his pants, getting a single shot off before the stickup man could even react. As the Beaumont PD reports, after the mugger dropped the shotty and took a powder . . .
Patrol Officers set up a perimeter and with the assistance of our K-9 Unit began to search for the robber. A perimeter officer spotted a man hiding behind a business near the area of I-10 @ Corley. This subject matched the description of the robber that was given by the victim. This man also had a gunshot wound to his hip. The original victim positively identified this man as the robber.
And shazam! When they caught the leaking lurker, they solved not just the aborted holdup, but four other outstanding crimes, too. All thanks to some derring do by a gun owner who took a (helluva) chance. Moral of the story: when it comes to carrying your heater, make like Nike and just do it.
Personal opinion… If a guy has a shotgun to my head he gets my money… That $100 is not worth my, or his life. If he tries to force me to go somewhere the story changes but for a simple stickup? IGOTD
Joe I feel like this situation could have so many outcomes. If I had a shotgun to my head I would be looking for any opening to draw and fire. Plus, action is faster than reaction. A practiced draw from IWB averages what, 1.5 secs, maybe 2 secs? He wouldnt know what hit him.
I dont know if I would have stopped at 1 shot though. That shotgun near my head would give me cause to pull the trigger at least 3-4 times just to make sure the BG goes down quick.
Sorry but, that is a typical sheep line of thought.
He gets your cash, then demands the entire wallet (now has your address), car keys, goes to your home, takes more, and possibly harms you and your family anyway. I’ll take my chances on the spot before I let it escalate past the initial “stick up”.
This guy did the right thing and took his (and possibly his loved one’s) safety into his own hands instead of leaving himself at the mercy of a morally bankrupt individual.
> then demands the entire wallet (now has your address)
This brings up an interesting question:
Why are our addresses on our drivers licenses and vehicle registrations?
If the license is only supposed to prove eligibility to drive, and in some cases state-of-residence, there is no need to print the actual address on the license.
this is why i brought my 1st gun 4 years ago. someone i know got robbed and gun point, took his wallet, keys etc. Asswipes went to his house and robbed him again before he was able to get the lock changed.
Even better question, why do we have to register vehicles when we have drivers licenses?
Stickup kids are the worst kind of criminal. As a target, in their eyes, you’ve been reduced to nothing more than a pile of cash. Your life is worthless, all that matters is what’s in your wallet and will they or will they not have to shoot you, but they go into it with the idea that if it’s them or you, it’s gonna have to be you. So… Fight fire with fire. The general disdain for human life in the psyche of a stickup kid is unprecedented. In all honesty, you’re better off fighting IMO. Often durring robberies/muggings where real guns are used, the perp will run and shoot away from the direction he’s running as a deterrent. Not in all situations but it happens. That shot could be the one that does you in. Food for thought.
I agree that $100 is not worth losing a life; but that isn’t the victim’s call, is it? The guy with the shotgun decided that $100 is worth taking/losing a life, and the guy with the gun makes the rules … Until someone produces another gun. My point is that you’re taking a risk either way. Who’s to say bad guy doesn’t just pop the victim in the face because he’s taking too long to produce the wallet? Or maybe he’s got terrible trigger discipline and in his agitated state, simply shoots the victim “accidentally?” I don’t think that compliance will increase your chances of survival all that much in this instance. I think that it does increase the chances of survival for bystanders–something to consider if you’ve got your family with you or you’re in a more crowded area–but in the middle of the night when you’re on your own, I figure (subjectively, I admit) that you’ve got a better chance of survival by active quickly and decisively against the threat when an opportunity to suprise presents itself.
“Seem humble to fill them with conceit … Emerge to their surprise.” — Tsun Tzu
Sorry Joe, but none of us has any idea how this went down. Would you have counseled the 71yo guy in the Internet Cafe to stand down or the 65 yo woman at the Pawn Shop to stand down? Both turned out pretty well for the good guys.
I agree with Joe, particularly if a loved on was present and also in danger.
Depending on what mood I was in, I might then pop him in the back of the head when he turned to flee though.
Then you’ve (maybe) just committed manslaughter? You are no longer in danger with the criminals back to you?
You’re operating under the assumption that the bad guy is going to leave well enough alone once he has your cash, ignoring all the down the line what-ifs such as repeat robberies and identity theft– that is all irrelevant at the time. If he’s pointing a gun at you and demanding money, it is very unlikely to be his first time doing so. So he’s probably already wanted for a laundry list of decidedly bad things. Potentially even murder. So, you’re putting your life on the line with the hope that another (or a first) murder charge is enough of a deterrant to keep him from deciding that your money and a dead witness is better than just your money.
Having given up your first real advantage, situational awareness, and having found yourself with a gun pointed in your general direction at close range, you have ONE advantage: What comes out of your pocket when the bad guy expects a wallet. The majority of said bad guys aren’t going to expect a gun most of the time, and that few seconds is best used introducing a few ounces of lead to Mr. Bad Guy’s circulatory and/or nervous system.
Sure, there are a lot of things you can do to limit damage should you be separated from your wallet, such as keeping a mail box away from your home, keeping some emergency money stashed separately, and so on and so forth. However, all of that stuff is irrelevant when you’re in the morgue because the bad guy decided he didn’t much mind killing you.
Just handing over the money may seem the logical thing to do in some cases, however, it represents a significant tactical error. Mr. Bad Guy is unlikely to expect that the next time your hand comes out of your pocket, it will be to produce more money. You have precious few advantages in such a situation, it is unwise to waste them.
good for him…
+1 for legitimate dirty carry.
I am not a sheep 🙂 let’s assume you get the first shot in, you betting he won’t jerk his trigger in reaction and hit you? Like I said if he tried to force me to go into an alley, and by inference, if the situation became more nefarious, I would draw and shoot, but as the story was told, not a smart move… Why not ask the defense experts who frequent this site what they would do… I will freely admit I’m just a regular civilian.
I am not an expert by any means, but when you draw, you move laterally, and since he has a shotgun you have the advantage of being able to close in so that he would have to back up to get a shot off (if he literally has it to your head). If he is a smart criminal (yeah…) he would have you at gunpoint at least 3 paces out.
Then many other variables come into play; like does he have a shell in the chamber (or is it even loaded), is he expecting you to drop a deuce and freeze, is he looking around for witnesses, has he done this before, etc.
Each situation is unique, you have to think on your feet. If you are predisposed to submit, you have set yourself up to fail, imho.
joe, on a public parking lot the man has a shotgun on you. how much more nefarious does the situation have to get?
I would ask the self-defense experts what exactly makes them an expert? Taking a lot of classes on theory and shooting a lot of targets? Listening to other self-proclaimed experts by word and in print? I guess I would be an expert on elk hunting then even if I had never shot an elk just so long as I had read a lot about it and practiced a lot with a .338 WM. Yeah, there are those experts too. Hell, I have met all sorts of experts on crab fishing whose qualifications are they have watched every episode of Deadliest Catch. They tell me all about how to do it and how it is done. They don’t miss a beat when I tell them that is how I make my living but instead tell me how I can do my job better! Amusing.
I don’t see how someone can be an expert on self-defense unless they have been in many deadly force self-defense situations, i.e., gunfights. That does not include war which is an entirely different thing.
This isn’t my observation but that of the editors of Rifle and Handloader magazines when asked why they didn’t publish articles on self-defense. They said they didn’t and wouldn’t because there are no experts on the subject. Of course there is one guy that is the guru of self-dense and has made a career out of it that has claimed many encounters. It seems every time the guy walks out the door there are bad guys out to get him, that is if you believe him. I don’t. I think he is a bag of air similar to those that have done one trip on the Bering Sea and claim to have seen a rogue wave whereas I have been going there close to 40 years and as have yet to see one of these oddities. Of course they were in 60′ seas too during their 45 days at sea. I guess I am just lucky, my life is quite boring for the most part. I don’t encounter rogue waves and people are not constantly attacking me in parking lots.
Of course I know that is what this site is about, not hunting or target shooting really although they seem to be occasionally mentioned which does keep my interest. Discussing what to do in a certain situation is interesting but I would not defer to so called expert opinion since there aren’t any real experts on the subject, just a bunch of guys that have thought about it a lot. When they have been in a dozen or so gunfights in self-defense situations then maybe I would listen. Otherwise their opinion counts no more than another despite self-proclamations of expertise. Oh, and if they have been in a dozen or so gunfights I would wonder what the hell was wrong with them or what country they were living in. It certainly couldn’t be the America I know because it simply isn’t that dangerous.
I think you meant to say “derring-do”.
You are correct, sir!
The Army Black Caps that teach at the Airborne (jump school) define a successful parachute landing as one you walk away from. In this case, the intended victim was successful in pulling out his gun vs. wallet. I am curious if there any stats or studies that cover similar cases and the success vs. failure rate.
So Han’s walking down the halls of Bespin with his old friend Lando. Leia’s there, and lookin’ good. Han thinks he’s off to dinner – maybe some wine, a little flirting, and then back to the ol’ guest quarters with Her Hotness.
But the door opens, and there’s Darth Vader.
Han doesn’t look incredulously at Lando; he doesn’t duck or run away. What does Han do?
He starts shooting at the MF. He starts shooting.
Be like Han.
possibly the best comment I have seen…ever!
HAN SHOT FIRST!!!!!
i don’t understand this argument. i wouldn’ve shot first also. with a bigger gun. from cover if possible.
You can still lose going down fighting, but it beats living as a pu$$y.
Yeah…but….that strategy failed rather badly for Captain Solo….
no, it didn’t. solo survived to fight again and vader was killed,eventually.
This didn’t happen. Liberals told me so.
All is well that ends well. Armchair quarterbacking the victims actions when he was successful in thwarting his attacker seems a bit off. You weren’t there. He may have felt the moment he relinquished his money the robber was going to kill his only witness.
The victim saw an opportunity to act and did so successfully. Yea for the good guy. End of story.
It occurs to me that refering to this guy as the victim is inappropriate. He may have been the intended victim, but he wasn’t a victim. To borrow loosely from Dave Grossman, the robber went looking for one of the sheep and got the sheepdog instead. I love a happy ending.
He was the legal victim. In court he would be referenced as such. While he fought back and won, he didn’t initiate the confrontation. He was approached by the perpetrator (e.g. robber) and threatened. He fought back, however he did so from a defensive position – not an offensive position. He simply was a victim who refused to be victimized and turned the tables on his attacker.
You would have I point, were I talking about whether or not he was legally the victim of a crime, rather than describing the difference between those who are intended victims and those who are actually victimized.
Kinda like what George Zimmerman did, eh? Oh some may say GZ initiated it by following TM but TM could have walked in his Dad’s house instead of putting on his tough guy act.
Yeah, to tell you the truth, a big motivator in my transition from goofy liberal to full blown gun nut was my realiztion that criminals being shot by their intended victims is awesome.
It seems like back seat drivers, armchair quarterbacks and keyboard commandos have a lot in common. But look at the facts, or at least the report which may or may not be factual. The shooter had a close encounter with a shotgun. He didn’t brown trow or wet the bed. He fought. He won. Good for him. So what’s the issue?
We promote training, don’t we? What for? Nobody needs to train to surrender. We train to win. That’s the whole point. So how can we promote training on the one hand, and promote surrender on the other? It makes no sense.
I did read some stats a while back (which I can’t find right now) that in good guy vs. bad guy situations like this one, the good guy almost always wins. I guess that predators never expect that their prey will grow very long, very sharp teeth.
@Ralphy: Could have been that you read in Gunfacts. The exact numbers escape me but a study concluded that a victim was much more likely to leave an encounter uninjured if they resisted with a firearm instead of compliance and nonresistance. Like, double-digit, more likely.
It been a rough couple of days in the Lone Star State. Add this to the shooting near A&M and the Hostage situation near Alvin.
I think this guy did great. I have always heard that if they only want money, give the money. However, that is the ultimate question: how do you know that the bad guy only wants the money? How do you know they won’t then demand you drive them to ATMs all over town, followed by driving them to your house and terrorizing your family?
The only solution that makes any sense to me is, when confronted with deadly force, respond quickly, violently and decisively then and there.
Not to be all pedantic and such. Well, I guess I am pedantic.
But I think you meant to say “derring do,” not “daring do.”
Right you are. Text amended.
Channeling Dudley Do-Right?
Story would have been happier if the crim died on the scene.
Still, well done! Now get thee hence to a range and practice!
People also seem to be assuming that the dude with the shotgun is going to just take the wallet and walk away. Who’s to say that he didn’t watch Breaking Bad last week and take heed of the advice, “There are two types of robbers, the ones who get away with it, and the ones who leave witnesses.”
Sometimes just give them what they want and they’ll go away without hurting someone (the anti-gun sheep response) works. Sometimes it doesn’t.
This falls in line not only with the numbers, but also why resisting works.
1. Criminals expect you to cower in fear.
2. They think they have a weapon and there for have the upper hand.
One thing I have learned is not matter how scared you are, close the gap. It goes against the flight instinct, but works. In close you can get a hold of the muzzle of a rifle/shotgun etc, or a criminals wrist to get the weapon pointed somewhere else.
While closing the gap you are drawing your own protection in the same motion.
The majority of the time it catches the criminal off guard.
This is also why you train and train often.
More information about this incident:
Good Friend Got Into A Gun Fight
Shotgun robber no match for victim with handgun – 12 News KBMT and K-JAC. News, Weather and Sports for SE Texas
Just talked to him.
He acted prudently.
Perp is wounded and in jail.
Truck in the next parking space
Perp jumps out, throws down on him with a shotgun
Friend is seated with one foot inside his Jeep Cherokee
Keeps talking to perp and pushing shotgun barrel sideways
Says he’s getting his wallet.
Pulls his TAURUS 709 Slim from kidney carry
Perps falls backwards, drops shotgun, jumps up and runs
K9 finds the perp shot through the hip and hiding.
Friend goes home alive.
He will go to jail. Unfortunately you cant cap someone when they wave a gun in your face, until they say im going to kill you in 5 seconds. Its not fair but its the truth..about guns. Dont mis represent people with these stories because some people dont know the law. He will get 10 years min.
Generally speaking, if you face an imminent credible threat to your life or limb, or the life and limb of another innocent party, you may use lethal force to stop the threat. A gun waved in your face—with or without commentary from the waver—qualifies.
Still, at the end of the day, that’s subject to the interpretation of the event by the police, DA and, ultimately, perhaps, a jury.