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“Benjamin Parangan Jr., a member of the maintenance crew [at the Living Water Fellowship church] for at least eight years, allegedly opened fire when he was told he no longer had a job,” reports. “The bullets missed Pastor Terry L. Howell Sr., 61, [above] who drew his own pistol and critically wounded Parangan, 47, according to the Sheriff’s Office.” And there you have it, save the fact that no child was injured during the making go this defensive gun use. “About 16 children were attending day care within the church complex during the shooting; none was harmed. Their parents had picked them up by midmorning.” I wonder what lesson they learned from the experience . . .

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  1. In Ohio the good pastor would either be room temperature or in jail, as it is illegal for anyone to carry in a building that houses a day care, even a proprietor, even in a private residence. Because, you know, no one needs a gun in a daycare, or a church, for the children, and all that jazz…

    • Agreed. Everyone would’ve been much better off is the pastor left his pistol back home. Thankfully, no one was killed.

      • And obviously only the police and military have enough training to use a gun safely in a building filled with other people…

    • I want to Paul Harvey rest-of-the-story this thing. There are few humans less trustworthy than a religious “figure”. They are so often involved in crack-smoking, hookers, homosexual hookers, screwing 8 year olds, having porn about screwing 8 year olds, that I wouldn’t let one valet my shop van, let alone my car.

      They’re all as corrupt as Graham and Schuller. Why don’t people learn?

      • Cool story bro.

        +7 for imagination.

        -12000 for irrelevance.

        FYI, trashing and stereotyping an entire group of people because of the actions, perceived or otherwise of a very few individuals, will likely win you few friends from POTG. Because, you know, that’s what groups like MDA do to us gun owners. So there might be more receptive forums out there for your atheism hard on.

        • And it is also what you “POTG” do to muslims. Note, I am pro-gun but I am not fooling myself into thinking that all of you are my friends.

        • Yo, yo, yo Sambo82. Cool story bro’ indeed.

          Do tell of the one, just one Muslim-run nation you’d like to like to live in. Still waiting… Crickets…

          The UK is learning exactly what the “moderate” Muslims do when faced with extremists – go along and sanction their obscene behavior. Muslims are free to have their primitive existence somewhere other than the civilized west. This is a nothing less than an evolutionary struggle, so I’m not apologizing for taking the side of the folks who don’t condone marriage to a 9 year old, buggery of early teen boys, and the killing of all who oppose them. FTFY.

          doesky2, If you’re like my self-identified “Muslim” friends who cherry pick the Qu’ran and work in strip clubs, then we’d probably get on just fine. Just like my “Christian” friends. They’re all secular humanists, but feel a societal construct to “conform” If you tolerate the pure filth that’s going on in the UK and Scandinavian world right now, then yup, you should be wary of me. You’re friends are out to kill my culture, so they are the enemy of civilization, just as Islam has been since day one. Pick a side.

      • Sorry, your brush is too broad. I believe you are thinking of the Catholic church. Others also participate in all this fun, it’s true, but to nowhere near the same extent. A situation which should have been predictable 1000 years ago when priests were suddenly required to be celibate. Like, I am so sure.

  2. I wonder what lesson they learned from the experience . . .

    “Let me give you a little advice so you know. In times of economic uncertainty, never ever fvck with another man’s livelihood.”

    Guido (Joe Pantoliano) in “Risky Business.”

    • You kinda have to wonder how bad the gardener messed up to have been fired from a church where he’d worked for 8 years.

      • If I had to guess, or even if didn’t, but just felt like speculating, I’d bet his firing had something to do with those kids at the daycare.

        • I’m very open to the possibility, because it sure seems to run deep with religious “leaders”. The more fervent they are the more likely it is that they go very bad. The Catholic sex-abuse “scandal” has exposed to the public a tiny fraction of what went/goes on, just in that little tribe alone. I went to a Catholic HS and learned quickly who was a bit too eager to get me in their office for ‘consultation’ or come to the residence for ‘dinner’. To their credit, when they figured out I wasn’t “compliant” they backed-off rather quickly. Other guys were not so lucky, and having been brainwashed from an early age, they did what they were told. At least one guy I went to school with ate a gun after graduation for that very reason.

          Here’s a database for all the priests accused by state and Diocese. 54 in the Diocese I live in and this is just the folks who have the courage to come forward despite getting treated much as the Hasidim above treat their own for reporting it. This is just the Catholics, this ignores the whole panapoly of Protestants, Muslims (long tradition of young boy buggery), and the independent crazies like Koresh’s lot, well that’s just a given.

          I’m know there’s nice people out there who are involved in the business of religion. But I know that our prisons are filled with a disproportionate number (90%) of people who identify as “religious”. I know not a week goes by there isn’t some scandal involving religious figures doing something they shouldn’t with children, drugs, prostitutes, and/or money. The ones that get caught are like every other crime of this nature – only the tip of the iceberg.

          Like I said, I want to hear the rest of the story, like why he’s firing the janitor. If it was the janitor doing the molesting, why is the ‘good reverend’ covering up for him by just firing him? Or is it the Rev eliminating a witness who could call him out? There’s a reason molesters and pedos gravitate toward religion, the chances of getting caught are really low – you have the self-leverage of the flock (god will fix this, or forgive it), and their inherent guilt (I must have brought this on myself, god is punishing me). Not to mention, who would believe me? The good father would never do…

          Youth ministers? I don’t think there’s a week goes by without at least one arrested for child porn. And those are the tiny percentage that are caught.

          Is every religious figure a molester/pedo? Nope. But I tend to assume the worst with these things, and when the dust settles, there’s usually something very wrong waiting.

          jwm – No personal backstory, save having met some folks over the years who had bad things happen to them and some got screwed up by it. And one friend from HS. I just know the history and how much of it gets covered up.

      • @Gs650g –

        A personal observation I have made…

        I have lived here in Central Florida for pushing 30 years. Over that period of time, I have worked for a fair number of people on a short-term technical contract basis, along the lines of what remodeling contractors do as an example.

        In that time period, of the employers who professed to me the loudest their “Christianity”, were the ones who treated me the most dishonestly. It now rings loud ‘Warning’ bells to me.

        I am NOT atheist. At this point, someone who goes out of their way to proclaim their faith to me is someone I need to be the most concerned about.

        This wasn’t a once, twice or even 3 time kind of thing.

        • Few things are better warnings of getting ripped off than one of those silly chrome fishies on their vehicle, or the statement of “Christian Values” in their advertisement.

  3. EVERYONE has the right to defend themselves, with deadly force if necessary. I am a devout Christian and I do not believe that God will hold it against him.

  4. “Sell your cloaks and buy a sword.”

    Looks like the pastor is willing to not only shepard his flock, but defend them as well. Good for him!

  5. Praise the LORD! How bad was the gardener? Bad enough. I know the Baptists we’ve been hanging around lately would have no problem with this good pastor.

    • If they try that at Dirk’s church, it will be an ugly surprise.

      Dirk will have no problem taking care of business.

      • Dirk might be pi**ed off that there is nothing for him to do, someone else has already taken care of it. I’m not sure fruitcakes realize that most churches prohibit firearms, or believe people pay attention if they do. In TX, if you are caught carrying you may be asked (ordered) to leave. I suspect, if someone starts shooting a church up and is stopped by a CC, that no one will EVER ask that CC to leave.

  6. Won’t the anti’s say something like “See, if he didn’t have a gun he wouldn’t have shot him in the first place. If he had to go home first, he might have calmed down and not shot anyone.”

    How to respond to this?

    • The aggressor is a gardener. Shovels and other such tools make great bludgeons. There’s a decent chance there are a few machetes around as well. It’s very likely the disgruntled employee was only a minute or two from a deadly weapon at any given time.

      • That’s a massive assumption. Knowing the predilection of religious types for child molestation, buggery, and general sexual abuse. From Billy Graham, to Al Sharpton, to Bill Cosby, to Creflo Dollar, to Eddie Long, to Ted Haggard, to Jim Bakker, to Douglas Goodman, to Gilbert Deya, to Tony Alamo, to Hasidic child molestation rings of NYC…

        There’s few things that are a better predictor of sick subhuman behavior than religious beliefs. BTK was a president of his church council and a boy scout leader.

        • 16V,

          Perhaps you will learn one day to discern between “religious types” and people who truly have faith in our Creator. This latter group are the ones we can expect to NOT molest children.

          That said, having a saving faith does not guarantee that a person of faith never commits wrongs. It should mean fewer wrongs, a deep sense of contrition after committing a wrong, and a serious longing to never commit that wrong again.

        • Meh. Until there’s reason to think otherwise, I’m going with the story that seems to fit the available facts. An employer informed an employee that he no longer had a job, and the latter became angry and took a shot at the former, who then returned fire.

          I am a third generation non-believer, I’ve got no loyalty to religion. At the same time, people who hold religious beliefs (the vast majority of the planet), should be judged individually, and not by association. Just like everyone else.

        • uncommon_sense,

          There’s nothing to discern. One believes in a magical sky-daddy and molests kids or does not. You’re offering a “No True Scotsmen” logical fallacy, quite common with “believers”.

          If you actually read the papers, or a good aggregator, there is rarely a day when a Christian youth pastor isn’t being arrested for child porn or molesting kids. It’s endemic. Let alone the rest of the “religious” hierarchy. “Pastors”, “Ministers”, whatever. The Protestants have sweet FA to brag about.

          You can be whatever you want, but that doesn’t change the stats any more than stating that the 13% of Americans who are black commit 50% of the murders. I need no fear of ‘eternal damnation’ to tell me right from wrong, that anyone does is a rather poor reflection on their self-control – were it not for imaginary hellfire and whatnot, you people would be acting like animals? That’s confidence inspiring…

    • Bob, you could say that attempted murder is a crime, so the laws that are on the books mean little or nothing to that gardener. Using a firearm leaves a victim no less dead than if the perpetrator used another tool, the difference comes in the equalizing factor of the firearm as well as the ease of use. On the other hand, a potential killer may look at a hardened victim and weigh the risks associated with a possible hospital/morgue visit for him/herself. Firearm Deterrence; Mutually Assured Destruction

      Of course the Second Amendment was not written and adopted for self defense, it was written to allow citizens to balance power and ensure freedom.

  7. Wow, talk about “Flip-ing” out. 😉 Filipino maintenance worker tries to kill pastor over a silly, low paying job? Oh yeah, that’s a good idea/solution. Dumb-ass. I hope he gets a LONG prison sentence. I bet no one will mess with that pastor again. 🙂

    • What does his nationality have to do with this?

      Are we to now be on guard because Filipinos are more dangerous than anyone else?

      Are you trying to lift yourself above the “others” ?

      Does that make you better?

      If you are of European dissent and don’t come from a long line of wealth I’m sure there is a stereotype about your nationality.

      • Seriously? Face palm. Nice try but I suggest you insert your foot in your mouth. I’m just being silly Billy. If you can’t see the humor in that (and can’t discern the difference between having fun with nationalities vs being blatantly racist), then you’re way, way too sensitive. Lastly, guess what? My family is Filipino, dummy. LOL

  8. I have a friend who used to go to that church. He told me the maintenance man had been complaining for years that the pastor was racist and he hated him. There was tension even before he was fired.

  9. The next time some neurotic panty wetter whines about guns in churches show them THIS and THEN remind them of Jeannie Assam at the New Life Church in CO.

  10. My mantra is that anything can happen, any time, any place. Nobody wants to have a Debbie Downer around, so I try to wait for openings in conversations when somebody else first dismissively sneers “Why would anyone ever need to have a gun in a……”, before I whip out some example ripped from our own recent local headlines as an example of why.

    Why would anyone need a firearm just to stop off on their way home from work to buy some fireworks? Well, because a string of fireworks stands on the same street have been robbed at gunpoint by a trio of thugs this past week. That streak came to an end last night when they picked the wrong Houston fireworks stand to rob. Triple tap to the face, wrist and (gasp!) back, later, and ta da! Career criminal is now unemployed, so to speak.

  11. My brother moved to SC a few years ago and the church he goes to encourages parishioners to come girded in the whole armor of GOD. That includes concealed firearms. He loves his church.

  12. What lesson…?

    Thou shalt carry weapons in the House o’ the Lord.

    Or for Judaism:

    If a man cometh to slay thee, slay him.

  13. Now its time for my “that reminds me of….” comment. Hey its early. Anyway do a google on a guy named J. Frank Norris. He was pastor of a big Baptist church in Forth Worth TX back in the 1920s. A very controversial character – stories say that he wanted the people of his church to build a new building. When they were reluctant to spend the money, he allegedly burnt the old one down. He was never convicted of arson because it was pretty hard to get a grand jury to charge a prominent preacher in Texas back in those days, but “common knowledge” said that he did the deed. Later on Norris shot and killed a political opponent in his (Norris’) office. The opponent was unarmed but Norris claimed self defense. Again no charges were brought. Rev Norris had a long and colorful career – he was involved in a number of law suits and was praised and criticized from many pulpits.

    I say all of this just to point out that controversy and scandal in the religious world isn’t new. I consider myself to be a person of faith and sometimes I just wonder how God looks at some of these folks. I’ll leave that up to a much higher authority than me.


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