“I can tell you that in my 27-plus years of policing here in Madison, this is probably one of the most disturbing and heinous crimes that I’ve ever seen.” That’s the exact pronouncement of Madison, Wisconsin Interim Police Chief Randy Gaber [via wkow.com] re: a home invasion by six scumbags. Specifically, “Madison police say three men planned a home invasion, but broke into the wrong home on Quincy Avenue on the north side around 6 a.m. on February 23. Police say the suspects were aware it was not the intended home, but they proceeded to violently attack the two victims who had been sleeping. The suspects are accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting the woman who was six months pregnant.” Actually, that’s not nearly specific enough . . .
What hell did the perps put those innocent civilians though during their 45-minute invasion? Here’s hoping the entire chronology of events comes out at the trial – and that the criminal or criminals providing the information do not receive lenient sentences for providing it. I want people who believe in infringing on Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms to come face-to-face with the facts of this case – where unarmed Americans were brutalized by armed thugs – so that the antis understand that no law would have stopped the assault.
Actually, that’s probably wrong. What’s the bet that at least two of the perps had previous convictions for firearms-related offenses? What’s the bet that at least three of them had a rap sheet that included a conviction for a violent offense? A law that would have incarcerated them for these offenses MAY have kept them from destroying innocent life. Again, that’s what they did to unarmed Americans.
If one of the two residents had a firearm, preferably on their person, they would have had a good chance to stop the gang assault in its tracks. Of course, there were SIX bad guys busting in their door. If the victims lived in a state which prohibited handgun ammunition magazines to 10 rounds, the armed self-defender would have a minimal margin of error. If he or she shot with the accuracy of the New York City Police Department (27 percent hit ratio), they would have been easily overwhelmed.
In short, this should have been a defensive gun use. Anyone who says differently – or would do anything to hobble the defenders’ ability to shoot their assailants – is a callous, delusional human being bent on increasing the sum of human suffering. That is all. [h/t Pascal]
Cue grieving mother/grandmother/aunt/etc… “But [fill in the blank] was a good boy! He never do nothin’ like dat!”
That usually happens when the victim fights back and they try to turn the table on who is the victim.
Acts like this make me seriously consider advocating the mazzatello (execution by mallet). It was used only for the most loathsome of those to be executed.
Wood chipper.
They can choose to go in head first or feet first.
John
Gentlemen, please! As supposed staunch supporters of the Second Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights are we so ready to disregard the Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”
As heinous as these sorts of crimes appear to us, do we dare take the stance of the Anti-2A crowd that our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights are subject to revision by the people or the government on a whim?
We either support the entire Bill of Rights or we agree with the anti-Constitutionalists that these amendments do not in fact mean exactly what they say.
We stand for all or we stand for nothing.
There is a guy that makes a parts kit for these. He is on the akforum under M-I. It takes Mp5 mags and is available with different options.
While I generally agree that these “alleged” perpetrators should be tried, convicted, and after 15 years of appeals executed for this crime, it presumes a great deal and relinquishes a lot of authority and discretion to the justice system. The victims do not get to decide what charges will be brought, who will get a plea bargain for turning against the others, nor any of the numerous other legal mechanics that will be in play over the years it will probably take just to get to trial.
Armed self defense is the only real solution to these sorts of crimes. So long as vermin like this exist within the society no amount of cops and prosecutors will resolve the issue. It is fairly obvious that they provided no effective deterrence to this crew. And yet statistically it shown that that in neighborhoods known to have a high likelihood of effective personal defense these sorts of crimes seldom happen. I think we could also safely presume that on the first or second round coming at them out of the bedroom these cretins, who had no particular reason to target these people and so no reason to risk their lives in continuing the assault, would be falling all over each other on their way back out the door they just broke down. Just sayin’.
Perfect example also on the dangers of mag capacity limits. 6 perps, 7 rounds may not get it done.
I own almost every Walther up the line of caliber’s and can honestly say that of all the incredible quality guns on the market, these will take the cake for me every time. I’ve never held a gun like the P99 (9mm), that points so naturally and is just a treat to shoot. Fits in my hand perfectly, which is subjective. Also have heard phenomenal remarks about the PPQ trigger.
Christopher Newsom and Shannon Christian, both raped and tortured for days and then murdered by six human predators.
If you don’t have a strong stomach, best not to Google the details; but if you do; you will see proof that evil does exist in the world.
Carry a weapon and NEVER surrender yourself or your gun if human predators have a weapon threatening a loved one; better that everyone were to die a quick and merciful death than to experience what Christopher and Shannon did before they were murdered.
if you dont think they are coming after the guns then I gotta wonder how your brain keeps your lungs breathing. They are coming, they are coming very very soon.
this is probably one of the most disturbing and heinous crimes that I’ve ever seen
Did you catch that? “Probably.” And “one of the most disturbing.”
When something like this is only probably among the worst, then you’ve been policing in Mogadishu or something, not Wisconsin.
He’s seen our elections, and the political process for selecting the Chief of Police and Dane Co Sheriff.
So, nearly Mogadishu bad, but not Baltimore bad.
So I’d say around Anacostia bad.
Like Milwaukee, only smaller.
Returning briefly to the recent Benelli m4 vs SCAR post…Benelli with extended tube, accept no substitute.
Not to worry, AG Holder will be sure their voting rights are safe and secure when they all get out in 5 to 10.
Ya know, I would be really ashamed to be the party that so actively pursues the “felon vote”.
I moved out of NJ several years ago when it became apparent that despite the valiant efforts of various groups, the majority of its population is anti gun and greatly influenced by nearby NYC. I lived in NJ for about 30 years and instead of getting better, it has gotten worse and unfortunately I do not seeing that changing.
I voted with my feet and moved to Florida. I am no longer supporting a State government that I disagree with. To me, staying would be absurd as I would be paying the people who want my guns.
The people who say that home invasions are a statistically remote “straw-man argument” for armed self-defense–based on fear mongering orchestrated by the gun lobby–must have to work very hard to suppress the memory after reading a story like this.
Death by firing squad. Blindfold, cigarette and everything. Air it live on world star hip-hop.
I prefer public hangings. I don’t believe a lawful execution should be quick and painless.
I would bet money that whatever side of the gun control issue the victims were on before this happened, they are now pro gun for law abiding citizens today.
IMO, the PPQ M2 has the best trigger of any polymer gun there is. It is smooth. The gun feels extremely comfortable in ANY hand, the grip is very smartly designed. The bad… subjective yes, but I find it to be extremely UGLY to look at. Also the plastic has a weird feel, very unlike glock or M&P or the extremely high quality P30 plastic. The gun is also very flippy although it is a soft shooter. Personally outside of the range, I would be uncomfortable carrying it or use it for HD. The trigger is so smooth and easy to pull, it seems downright dangerous. If I didn’t already have a great range gun, the PPQ would be appealing but as such I don’t have a use for it.
I agree on the PPQ trigger.
I have an M1. Awesome trigger but…way short and slick in my paws to the point where I would not carry it. When I hand it to someone who has never shot it before unintentional double taps are common. I do love it as an excellent range toy.
I saw listed on the CCP specs that it has 2 mm less travel than the PPQ. I’d like to try one, but I don’t know if I’d personally feel okay carrying it with such a slick trigger.
Yeah, yeah, I know all the rules. But I got iron monkey claw powerful hands to where a Glock with NY1 or NY2 spring feels about right to me. YMMV of course.
For a while after getting the PPQ M2 I also was unintentionally double-tapping. The trigger takes some getting used to, but I progressively learned to master it. I now have 2250 rounds through the gun, and I have it down. It’s worth it to train with this gun and gain the experience needed to properly operate it. I really love this trigger!
The Anti’s will of course consider the fact that no one died a validation/ justification for gun control. Just think how many deaths may have occurred if the innocent couple would have had a gun and tried to defend themselves.
“Rape me, Just don’t kill me”.
The person in the last mugshot could have been Obama’s son.
Actually, only 3 actually busted in. The other three were planners, or after-the-fact accessories, as I understand it. So, even one firearm in the hands of the victims would most likely have saved them. Certainly, even with just 3 on-site perps, more than 10 rounds could very well make the difference. And yes, the lead bad guy had a couple of felony convictions under his belt, including sexual assault, and arguably should have been behind bars in the big house and not in the victims’ house. The state’s insistence on turning those kind of animals loose is yet another compelling argument for RKBA
I am reasonably certain that the ATF has seized EP Armory’s customer list. So if you bought one from them, you may want to follow the advice posted on CalGuns–if you haven’t built it out, don’t; and if you have, strip it now so you can just turn it over when they knock on your door (or send you a nasty gram demanding its surrender on threat of a federal felony prosecution).
I’ll bet that Senator De (Cowardly) Leon is just giggling gleefully. He is winning and his “ghost gun” bill hasn’t even been passed yet.
At least when a crackhead shoots my dog, he can’t cover his ass by trumping up charges against me.
Public hangings. Bring them back. The gibbet for them all. Sick shits.
I thought Madison, WI was one those liberal/blue/nirvana/utopias where unicorns s-ing skittles happens, with no crime…? Wow, my bubble has been burst-not really. These vermin do need some exterminating.
Just a comment on those curved scratches on the bullets. That ammo is unfired and has scratches on the bullets from extraction. Meaning those scratches typically are not happening on chambering a cartridge, but from when the ejector is angling the unfired cartridge into the locking lugs of the barrel extension. The front side of those lugs are known to be quite sharp on many brands of newly built ARs.
To check if it’s happening before or after chambering a live round, just fire a virgin unscratched round into a stack of phone books and recover the bullet. The bullet may be bent up a bit from impact, but it shouldn’t have that curved scratch on it.
Ok I am puzzled by one thing so maybe someone can help me. The magnifier in the picture appears to be cheap Chinese garbage. I am surprised by that. How do I know that. I own one. Used it on an AR with an Eotech for a while. Are there other magnifiers that look the same that are name brand ? I know has nothing to do with the commentary. Just an observation.
He’s still a conservative nut who hates gays and marijuana, so he’s no good to us running for president.
If you think most of the liberal leadership is “Pro Gay” you are kidding yourself. They are indifferent to homosexuality (for now) and only champion it for political reasons. Same thing with diversity. It is a means to an end. If they ever seize full control, they will turn on the homosexual community and crush them along with anyone else that claims individuality. In their vision of society, everyone must be the same, which includes sexual preference.
I just wanted to say thanks to The Truth About Guns for this review. About 9 months ago I bought a mid-length M15 (15A4CBA2) with fixed front sight. The TTAG review went into the pile of info I processed before making my purchase.
My M15 only had one single jam which pushed the bullet deep into the brass, which was caused by a crappy 20 round mag that did not have a non-tilt follower. The ArmaLite metal mags, PMAGs, and other no-name mags with good followers have run flawlessly in my M15.
Thanks TTAG for keeping me informed and pointing out a quality built AR carbine.
Gun hero or gun whore? Here is my back of the envelope calculation regarding who will and who won’t throw gun owners under the bus: if they support ALL of the Bill of Rights — then they may be worthy of support — if they “posture” positively over guns and then support anything the NSA does — that is a danger sign. The Constitution is not multiple choice.
The FiveseveN is an odd choice for a bedside gun.
PA might be the most gun friendly state. Open carry w/o a license. Shall issue LTCF. no restrictions on NFA stuff.
More gun friendly than Arizona?
I think of Arizona as the friendliest friend of firearms. Too bad about the damn scorpions. Those things keep up at night. (The arachnid, not the 80’s rock band.)
It’s all about the consequences of the choices we make.
That homeowner and his wife chose not to have a self-defense piece handy – perhaps because they felt guns were icky.
And, for 45 minutes, the three sub-human predators had their fun with the missus.
That’s that *feel*?
Ready to go buy a gun yet, buddy?
John
Culture win.
And don’t forget about Ted Cruz.
But let’s not start the flame war over why Texas sucks. We need to focus on states that ACTUALLY need our help like CA, NY, and CO instead of getting into a pissing Co test between Arizona and Texas.
After 13 years in office, his record of advancing 2A freedom isn’t earth shattering, but there’ve beensome noteworthy accomplishments. Certainly far more than mere lip service.
There’s the reduction is training hours for CHL’s, but that’s for new applications. For renewals, training hours have been reduced to zero, which is more appropriately described as eliminated.
There’s also the 2007 law that allows for the carry of a concealed handgun in one’s vehicle, without requiring a concealed handgun license. This settled a century+ old debate by eradicating the “travelling” standard, which had been abused and used to prosecute some people wrongfully. Now, if you’re legal to own, you’re legal to carry in your vehicle without expense, hassle of a license.
Another law mandates that employers may not bar employees from storing their firearm in their personal vehicles on company property. That one’s new and could see some civil suits yet, but it’s a great step. Same with colleges/universities, which can’t ban guns locked in cars.
Some nice tidbits, more than honorable mention; but not the rock it out, full throttle expansion I’d like to have seen.
…and if we had an old school beat cop in the neighborhood, the neighborhood would solidly support him. It works two ways.
There was a proposition on the ballot last week to expand locations where concealed carry is permitted. Prop 2 passed by almost 90%.
They just had Idaho gov. Butch Otter on local radio explaining the bill he signed allowing CC on colleges and universities.
Cool guy.
Any one knows who makes either a leather holster or kidex holster for a SIG-227R. I purchased one SIG227R and I have been unable to find a holster for the gun. I heard that a P226R holster fits the P227R. Please reply, thanks
Madison, WI seems to be a hotbed of this type of predation against women. I’m sure that lots of the people in Madison are effectively brain-dead on the issue of guns and crime, and they have the results to show for it.
I’ll just leave you all with a few choice snippets, first a couple more gang rapes (the second complete with the cries of the anguished mother realizing that “her baby” is going away for quite a while):
http://www.jsonline.com/news/crime/milwaukee-man-to-stand-trial-in-gang-rape-case-b9990461z1-222351121.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/29246614.html
Annnnd then the usual pablum from the cops in Madison, the Chief, spouting his twaddle on gun control, as is the habit of liberal big-city cops:
http://www.wisn.com/news/south-east-wisconsin/milwaukee/Chief-sheriff-trade-barbs-over-gun-control/19116966
He’s no Steve Perry.
I like Gov. Perry, but let’s not devalue the word “hero” by using it inappropriately.
A hero is someone who risks his/her life to save/protect/defend someone else’s life. Sometimes heroes die in the process.
Being pro-2A in Texas isn’t exactly a political risk.
I’m sorry, is it me, or is just totally illogical to suggest that a march today is intended to somehow intimidate MOMs who made a presentation last Saturday? Haven’t those moms gone home yet?
No, you’re right. But since when has MDA been about logic? They seek to demonize gun owners, and if they make themselves look like complete idiots while attempting to do so, that’s fine with me.
Luckily time is not a constant.
Wait, concealed carry is dishonest, but open carry is bullying… Shannon needs to make up her mind.
One would almost think she didn’t want us to carry at all…..
“Gun Hero” my ass.
Just under who’s orders do you think the TX State Troopers have been ILLEGALLY ARRESTING cap & ball replicas which are explicitly NOT legally defined as guns, on PUBLIC Austin Capitol grounds??
You think those CosPlay dragqueens who have left alone open carriers all this time, would ‘suddenly’ grow a statutes-enforcing fervor specifically targeting cap/ball replicas??
Another RINO puppet to dangle in front of the geopolitically clueless.
Ask Perry how many of already-TX tax payers-paid-for roads he’s personally sold to Cintra, a Spanish company with toll lease for over 99yrs??
Only if some actually paid attention to how politics actually operate, than what’s advertised…
Farago, you should know better.
So he sold some highways to Cintra. So what? Cintra owns tolls roads all over Europe and the US.
I vote castration followed by a good old-fashioned chain gang. Racist? Tell that to my beautiful black wife.
One more woman better educated, and hopefully you made the man’s mind just a little more open. Good job!
Why would FL provide an exception going to, during, and returning from … fishing??
Gators and drug smugglers.
“Gators and drug smugglers.”
Which is to say, the Crowe family.
Don’t worry, Raylan will get their asses.
He’s a FLETC (Federal Law Enforcement Training Center) instructor? Powerful statements. I wonder how long he will remain an instructor once his boss gets a whiff.
I hope it never comes down to armed conflict and Ruby Ridge type scenarios. We will have no choice if governments initiates acts of violence. If guns are successfully taken away, the rest of our constitutional rights will in short order be ended or severely restricted.
How is the balance with the can on?
Regarding the squirrel-hunting “terrorist”…
and the sheriff’s department continues to investigate.
Given that this is South Carolina, I’m betting that’s code for “y’all, you ain’t NEVER seen this many squirrels in one place this time of year, get over heah and shoot some as soon as y’all get off shift!”
But had the victims a gun and used it, would you have given them the George Zimmerman treatment? That is the real question.
That last part, the provision about incidental, accidental revealing of a legally concealed weapon, is why Florida may end up getting constitutional open carry. Florida Carry’s website has the full skinny (as they are leading the legal charge), but in a nutshell: A newly minted CCL holder was arrested for not having his IWB pistol concealed as he walked down the street. His was defended under the then brand new accidental reveal statutes and the judge ruled the law too vague (or some such) and wrote in his summation that concealed carry was a privilege. Florida Carry then appealed to the FL Supremes, that as the FL Constitution has RKBA as a right, then open carry must be constitutional, since the lower court has ruled that concealed carry is a privilege. The FL AG tried to get the case thrown out, but the FL Supremes denied the motion. The ruling is currently “pending”, but I have not heard when they expect to get an answer.
If it looks like a gun, it’s going to be treated like a gun, and I’m not sure why a law is necessary to say so.
Because in single-party Democratic fiefdoms, there must be a law to control everything. A new tax will inevitably follow the new law.
Because lawmaking.
I have owned my Walther PPQ M2 for about a year. I’m not loyal to any one brand. I held it, fired it, and bought it. The PPQ M1 range weapon at my gun range has over 20,000 rounds without any mechanical failures. It retains all the original parts. When you rack the slide, it feels as tight as the 5″ M2 my buddy bought two weeks ago. It is a fine weapon.
Why is the CCP any better than the competition, almost all of which is more compact? E.g. M&P Shield. Or walther’s own pps?
He would bring the median age of the Board down to 70.
Pence will sign it, despite all the negative sensational local news coverage
And the NRA coming to Indy in April, Shannon must really be happy
The “brick wall” of the “gun lobby” is the American people. Hopefully it will remain that way and only strengthen.
He MISSED! And the part about “this weekend”? Does that mean today? Or “last weekend”?
What a cunt this guy is. He wants to make kids safer then go to Brownsville and the South Bronx homeless shelters. He can spend an extra 100 mil and get those kids and their families some decent clothes, food maybe even give some of them jobs. No he wants to waste money on Shannon (T)watts traveling around the country spewing nonsense.
Gun Rights will not be as big a deal as obamacare: simply, because politicians view obamacare as a bigger vote winner. Look at it this way: every baby boomer with enough of a brain left to read a newspaper every couple years has an opinion on ObamaCare and they view it as either satan or savior and will vote according to that view.
Well he’s right. They won and the people of Connecticut seem to want these laws. No arm of the government or the courts is willing to aid the gun owners of Connecticut, so short of fighting it out I really don’t see anything they can do.
If I was a voting man I would bet that the gun owners lay down and turn in their arms.