It Should Have Been a Defensive Gun Use: “In My 27-plus Years of Policing in Madison, This is One of the Most Disturbing and Heinous Crimes I’ve Ever Seen” Edition

Suspects in Madison home invasion (courtesy

“I can tell you that in my 27-plus years of policing here in Madison, this is probably one of the most disturbing and heinous crimes that I’ve ever seen.” That’s the exact pronouncement of Madison, Wisconsin Interim Police Chief Randy Gaber [via] re: a home invasion by six scumbags. Specifically, “Madison police say three men planned a home invasion, but broke into the wrong home on Quincy Avenue on the north side around 6 a.m. on February 23. Police say the suspects were aware it was not the intended home, but they proceeded to violently attack the two victims who had been sleeping. The suspects are accused of repeatedly sexually assaulting the woman who was six months pregnant.” Actually, that’s not nearly specific enough . . .

What hell did the perps put those innocent civilians though during their 45-minute invasion? Here’s hoping the entire chronology of events comes out at the trial – and that the criminal or criminals providing the information do not receive lenient sentences for providing it. I want people who believe in infringing on Americans’ natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms to come face-to-face with the facts of this case – where unarmed Americans were brutalized by armed thugs – so that the antis understand that no law would have stopped the assault.

Actually, that’s probably wrong. What’s the bet that at least two of the perps had previous convictions for firearms-related offenses? What’s the bet that at least three of them had a rap sheet that included a conviction for a violent offense? A law that would have incarcerated them for these offenses MAY have kept them from destroying innocent life. Again, that’s what they did to unarmed Americans.

If one of the two residents had a firearm, preferably on their person, they would have had a good chance to stop the gang assault in its tracks. Of course, there were SIX bad guys busting in their door. If the victims lived in a state which prohibited handgun ammunition magazines to 10 rounds, the armed self-defender would have a minimal margin of error. If he or she shot with the accuracy of the New York City Police Department (27 percent hit ratio), they would have been easily overwhelmed.

In short, this should have been a defensive gun use. Anyone who says differently – or would do anything to hobble the defenders’ ability to shoot their assailants – is a callous, delusional human being bent on increasing the sum of human suffering. That is all. [h/t Pascal]


  1. avatar Buckeyecopperhead says:

    Cue grieving mother/grandmother/aunt/etc… “But [fill in the blank] was a good boy! He never do nothin’ like dat!”

    1. avatar Michael in GA says:

      That usually happens when the victim fights back and they try to turn the table on who is the victim.

      1. avatar BR549 says:

        Obama, of course, would be saying, “If I had six sons, they would look like [fill in six blanks].”

        1. avatar Doc 03911 says:

          Guy on the far right could pass..

      2. avatar ErinTarn says:

        “They jus’ stumble in tha wrong house, thas’ all. They thought the crackaz, I mean peeps in der was intrudas.”

    2. avatar Samuel Leoon Suggs says:

      Yeah probably not; the victims took the abuse like good little subjects so the mainstream media won’t be interviewing any family members.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        Once/if they recover, that is.

    3. avatar DV says:

      “There’s a 12-gauge for that.”

      1. avatar Gene says:

        Only with an extended tube.

      2. avatar FoRealz? says:

        Make sure it has the shoulder thing that goes up and .30 caliber magazine clips.

    4. avatar MothaLova says:

      And cue the missing fathers, who won’t be available for comment because they haven’t been seen since before these criminals were born.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        For real. But, speaking of that, let’s assume the “fathers” were on the household scene, after all. Would they have turned out better if the so-called “dad” were there to:

        A: Beat their mother on a regular basis
        B: Beat them on a capricious and drunken basis
        C: Stole the rent money and bought hard drugs
        D: Still been a member of the family, but in the state penitentiary?

        You see how skewed the “it’s the fatherless black household) BS is? We had better face the fact that the core black family (there are excellent exceptions) was destroyed decades ago, and this is something that police, lawyers, prisons or a zillion long-painted-fingernail social workers is not going to fix… for a really long time.

        That horse was out of the barn before most of you were born. You can trace it back as far as slavery, which broke families up. Once and for all. It may be earlier than that; I just don’t know how to know about that.

        What is boils down to, I believe, is not just broken families. It’s not just barely-at-all families. Role models? Don’t make me laugh. Or throw up in my mouth, a little. It’s SO bad that it’s not even about role models; there are good role models available. But they almost always choose Johnny Too Bad, the horrible role model.

        Sure, the schools must shoulder some blame. But you can’t be educated if you believe education is “Whitey’s bullshit”. I mean, could you possibly?

        And yeah, yeah…. popular culture and “gangstaism”. But you can STILL make the right choice, in spite of it all. The black Americans I’ve known are almost all from good, strong family structures. And they didn’t embrace Thug Culcha. But all of them. I’ve know blacks who came from shaky and unenviable backgrounds. And not a one of them turned out to be bad people.

        You can say I haven’t been exposed to the other side. That’s true. But it’s obvious prison sentences are anything but a deterrent to crime; our prisons are universities of crime. They don’t prevent crime – they just turn out better and more determined criminals.

        So scratch that lousy “solution”, okay? There are lots of uninhabited, remote islands out there. How’s about once someone accumulates a rap sheet of X length, we airdrop them or this or that one, with no supplies? OK… one sandwich. Then they’re on their own for the duration. Thank can go Wild Savage on their fellow prisoners… nobody knows, nobody sees but Jesus!

  2. avatar dook says:

    Hang ’em in the public square and leave their corpses out for a week.

    I don’t care what color, race, persuasion, background, nationality, political party, etc. they were a part of. This type of stuff needs to stop.

    1. avatar Samuel Leoon Suggs says:

      White rich guy rapes a pregnant woman and I’m still shooting him in the face given the opportunity. Wrong is Wrong race and socioeconomic station has nothing to do with it.

      1. avatar dook says:

        Exactly my point.

  3. avatar JoshuaS says:

    Acts like this make me seriously consider advocating the mazzatello (execution by mallet). It was used only for the most loathsome of those to be executed.

    1. avatar John Boch says:

      Wood chipper.

      They can choose to go in head first or feet first.


    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      Gentlemen, please! As supposed staunch supporters of the Second Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights are we so ready to disregard the Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

      As heinous as these sorts of crimes appear to us, do we dare take the stance of the Anti-2A crowd that our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights are subject to revision by the people or the government on a whim?

      We either support the entire Bill of Rights or we agree with the anti-Constitutionalists that these amendments do not in fact mean exactly what they say.
      We stand for all or we stand for nothing.

      1. avatar The average American says:

        Hear hear!

      2. avatar Alaskan Patriot says:

        Agreed. However, “the punishment shall fit the crime” is also a rule of biblical (and arguably natural) law and as so is incorporated into the Bill of Rights, even if implicitly, but virtue of the fact that our Founding Fathers were religious beings. Cruel and unusual punishment is and should be outlawed. However, I would bet my last dime that most would agree that death by mallet or hanging or anything else you can possibly imagine would STILL not be sufficient punishment for SIX men who gang raped a pregnant woman. I am against excessive punishment. However, there are no words to describe these males (I refuse to describe them as “men”) nor the actions they have taken, and as such, they deserve far worse than whatever they will receive. GUARANTEED.

        1. avatar Carry.45 says:

          Good on ya for finding the loophole. These beasts need to be humiliated and beaten damnsanear death.

      3. avatar Jon says:

        I agree with you, do not shred the Constitution. One question: If we do this to all of the good people who perpetrate this kind of crime, and level of heinousness, when does it not become cruel or unusual? At what point does it become usual? Also, I detect an and in there.

      4. avatar JoshuaS says:

        1. Death by mallet was an accepted form of execution at that time for particularly heinous capital offenses

        2. I don’t actually share the ideology of the Founding Fathers

        3. I don’t believe in the “Bill of Rights” as a foundation of any right I claim or exercise. By itself, it is just words on a paper. At best enforced as human positive law, changeable by the whim of voters. To the degree that we respect the “rule of law” we have set a certain benchmark for amending the constitution.

        4. Instead, to the degree I even will use “rights language” I will found in on nature and justice. I believe in the 2nd amendment because it is in accord with natural law. It is good law.

        5. So no, you are claiming I can only support the right to arms if I buy into your ideology. I don’t. I am not a libertarian, but I will support them where we share common ground. I am not in favor of liberal democracy, but I will cooperate with those who are and in it in order to promote our common good. I don’t believe in rights language (which reverses the ontological order between justice and rights in an older sense), but I agree materially on many things with those who do. I am a devout Catholic, but I am going to work with a Jew when we have common ground. I am a traditionalist conservative, but hey if a liberal or an “American conservative” (read liberal conservative, those words are not opposed) shares common ground with me, great

        6. I will support the Bill of Rights as such because they are the law, and the rule of law must be upheld. I would oppose amending to get rid of the 2nd because it is good law. I understand the 8th amendment against cruel and unusual punishments to be precisely against punishments done for spectacle or out of proportion with retributive justice. Execution of pedophiles, rapists (what SCOTUS outrageously calls cruel and unusual) is not cruel and unusual. It is just.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          While I do take some issue with the tone of your post, I think you’re more right than wrong.

          I don’t believe in “natural rights” much, either. I think “natural rights” are a cop-out, because of the implication that if you are willing to forgo them, I probably should, also. That’s the “cop-out” part.

          The concept is a cop-out because it suggests those rights will always be recognized as such. Hey, they’re “natural”, RIGHT?

          WRONG. Every one of them has been bought and paid for by somebody who fought and suffered before you, and if you believe in the concept of “rights” at ALL (I happen to do so), you must be ready, willing and able to do what they did, and it seems we all might have to do more, not the same.

          And… I can’t get to your post to reference the rest of you points, because it WAY up there, and a hard road to travel.

      5. avatar Gs650g says:

        How about releasing them all at 2 PM and notifying the victim families 2 hours before? Don’t forget to have a baseball bat salesman in the parking lot.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          Sales? He’d make more money renting them out.

    3. avatar Mack Bolan says:

      There is only one sentence suitable for rapists.

      Their junk should be nailed to a chair on top of a pyre. Once the pyre is lit they are provided with a dull knife.

      1. avatar Bryan says:

        No knife, spoon.

    4. avatar FoRealz? says:

      Give them a Bronx special

      Duct tape ’em to a chair and hand out screwdrivers to the crowd. Come back in 5 and hose away what’s left.

    1. avatar Ross says:

      I’m good with that.

      1. avatar Accur81 says:

        Me too.

    2. +1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    3. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Stone them. It’s biblical.

    4. avatar jughead says:

      Cool story, bro.

    5. avatar Ralph says:

      Or get medieval on their ass.

  4. avatar Hannibal says:

    Magazine limits.

    1. avatar whatever says:

      Indeed. Three rounds in each? Well that’s 18 rounds right there. Is it me or are these home invaders showing up in larger and more aggressive squads? “High cap mags?” More like “reasonable minimum mags” if you ask me.

    2. Hey their are only six you should be able to take care of this with a revolver if you where really an exspect marksmen (Fudd Sarc)

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        This of course is exactly the sort of line you would get from advocates of the “Safe” Act in NY that originally attempted to ban anything over 7 round magazines. Better not miss.

        1. avatar TyrannyOfEvilMen says:

          Step One: Use as many bullets as necessary to stop the threat from normal cap mags
          Step Two: Spread low-cap mags with enough residue on them around the place.
          Step three: Put the normal-cap mags away in a safe hiding place.
          Step four: NOW call 911.

          Problem solved.

      2. avatar Gs650g says:

        Shoot one and the other 5 pu$$ies won’t even stick around to carry him out. Make a real mess of him and see who wants to be next.

    3. avatar Hugh Glass says:

      A home invader limit need to be passed. Home invasions shall consist of a two person perpetrator team maximum.

      1. avatar NYC2AZ says:

        Don’t forget having people put up a “home invasion free zone” sign.

        1. avatar ErinTarn says:

          Forms groups. Families Against Home Invasion. FAHI

        2. avatar William Burke says:

          I LIKE it! How much is a membership? 🙂

    4. avatar Gregolas says:

      This. I would certainly feel better not to be limited to 7-10 rounds should a gang of six come to my house. Has Gov. Cuomo seem this article?

  5. avatar Tile floor says:

    Draw and quarter em

    1. avatar dook says:

      Nope. Rack ’em. In the town square. Maybe take a week.

      Or, ye’ olde “slowly lowering on to a short, broad stake aimed at the anus”. Maybe take a week.

    2. avatar Cliff H says:

      Gentlemen, please! As supposed staunch supporters of the Second Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights are we so ready to disregard the Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

      As heinous as these sorts of crimes appear to us, do we dare take the stance of the Anti-2A crowd that our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights are subject to revision by the people or the government on a whim?

      We either support the entire Bill of Rights or we agree with the anti-Constitutionalists that these amendments do not in fact mean exactly what they say.
      We stand for all or we stand for nothing.

      1. avatar TyrannyOfEvilMen says:

        Actually, I think the eighth amendment need not be invoked in this case. Instead, as gunowners, in a case like this we should be focused on winning EACH of these criminals’ hearts and minds: With two shots to the heart and one to the mind!

      2. avatar William Burke says:

        You’re right. The Apaches taught me: bury ’em up their necks near an anthill, and cover their heads with honey.

  6. avatar Bill says:

    well you know, pigs gonna pig and all that.

    1. avatar OFBG says:

      ^^^ Suspect and totally unnecessary. Also cowardly. If you’re gonna say it, just say it and take the heat.

  7. avatar Charles5 says:

    THIS is exactly why NOBODY should be denied the right defend themselves with a firearm with whatever magazine capacity they so desire. This story also completely destroys the gun control advocates argument that “home intruders are just looking for stuff to steal and will run away as soon as they realize someone is home. No need to shoot them.” Absolutely ridiculous! I’d like to see Shannon Watts et al explain how gun control kept this family safer.

    1. avatar JR says:

      If you ask Shannon Watts that question, you might get an answer along the lines of “It was the culture of gun violence that made them do this.”

      She would likely find a way to spin it to be a gun’s fault, somehow.

      1. avatar Dev says:

        Sure, she would say the phallic imagery of a gun led these poor, downtrodden and oppressed youths to believe that rape was a legitimate emotional response and expression of their frustration at their station in life.

      2. avatar Charles5 says:

        I’m sure she would. They have no shame do they?

    2. avatar dook says:

      Whatever the lefts actual answer, in their heads they would just be thinking “well, sometimes people just have to die so I can have my way”.

      1. avatar JR says:

        Wow, that’s dark. The even darker part is how easily that idea is to accept as quite possibly true.

        1. avatar Charles5 says:

          I am completely convinced that it is true. It is the collectivist mindset. The greater good and all that. Socialist/Progressive/Gun Control Types believe that the ends justify any means. If they thought they could get away with it, they would kill anyone that stood in their path and justify it with Utopian proclamations. Go read one of their blogs and see how many of the comments wish for the literal death of the opposition. Sure, you will find that kind of talk almost anywhere, even here at TTAG (another reason for the new comment policy). The difference though is that it is the predominant theme in their responses to anything that opposes their vision for society. I actually overheard a guy in the barbershop say that he wishes Obama would just arrest and or kill all the conservatives and proclaim the new law of the land. He genuinely believed that was a viable solution to societal ills.

      2. avatar Another Robert says:

        I think you’re on to something there.

      3. avatar Another Robert says:

        I think you’re on to something there. No one is more mean-spirited (or more racist, for that matter) than a doctrinaire liberal. Sorry for the double post, something happened the first time and it looked like it didn’t “take” so I tried again.

      4. avatar jughead says:

        I saw that same animated thing on YouTube from which you got that line.

      5. avatar William Burke says:

        Holy crap, man… NEVER have I heard this put better than you did! NEVER!! It’s about them “having their way”. There’s a word for that: INFANTILISM. It’s a perpetual temper tantrum.

        And they nearly invariably raise children who are weenie-copters.

    3. avatar Katman says:

      I think this reinforces the point that good people need to be armed, as Wisconsin has very reasonable gun laws (at least compared to the People’s Republic of Maryland, where I live). People have a responsibility to protect themselves and their family, to the best of their ability and willingness.

    4. avatar ErinTarn says:

      Anyone who has forcefully entered a living space that does not belong to them has forfeit their life.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        I agree. The home (permanent or temporary) must be inviolable. Anything less is rule by terror.

  8. avatar Cliff H says:

    While I generally agree that these “alleged” perpetrators should be tried, convicted, and after 15 years of appeals executed for this crime, it presumes a great deal and relinquishes a lot of authority and discretion to the justice system. The victims do not get to decide what charges will be brought, who will get a plea bargain for turning against the others, nor any of the numerous other legal mechanics that will be in play over the years it will probably take just to get to trial.

    Armed self defense is the only real solution to these sorts of crimes. So long as vermin like this exist within the society no amount of cops and prosecutors will resolve the issue. It is fairly obvious that they provided no effective deterrence to this crew. And yet statistically it shown that that in neighborhoods known to have a high likelihood of effective personal defense these sorts of crimes seldom happen. I think we could also safely presume that on the first or second round coming at them out of the bedroom these cretins, who had no particular reason to target these people and so no reason to risk their lives in continuing the assault, would be falling all over each other on their way back out the door they just broke down. Just sayin’.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      And the other problem with execution for this sort of crime, as emotionally satisfying as it may appear, is that it gives the perpetrators a very strong incentive to never leave a live potential witness behind.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        That’s a powerful realization, Cliff. And if you can’t get to that place, you’re living in Wonderland. Your entire belief system is built upon shifting sands and Denialism.


  9. avatar iCONOCLAST says:

    Is there some portion of every police academy curriculum in America that teaces “cliche 101” ? Every cop I ever read about in any article states, “in my (insert number of years on job) I have never seen (whatever crime or heinous occurrence they’re talking about) so bad, so terrible……. We’ll you get my drift.
    Talk about your standing headline.

    1. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      Cliche perhaps, but such statements should remind everyone that, no matter how experienced the cops are, they can’t prevent crime. The best they can do is catch the scum after the fact and temporarily take said scum off the streets.

    2. avatar Accur81 says:

      Gang raping a pregnant woman for 45 minutes is a particularly hideous crime. RF is quoting the police chief.

      When you actually get on scene and investigate nasty crimes, you get a new understanding of how evil people can actually be. I won’t apologize for the cliche and neither should anyone else.

      1. avatar iCONOCLAST says:

        Any kind of rape is horrible, just commenting on the same old same old when it comes to cop quotes. I tell you, some of you guys are touchy old ladies who take offence at practically everything.

        1. avatar Hannibal says:

          We are all impressed by how cool and worldly you are that you can be blase about raping a pregnant woman.

      2. avatar iCONOCLAST says:

        See below

      3. avatar Cliff H says:

        Clichés, like stereotypes, come into the lexicon for a (usually very good) reason.

    3. Oh yeah the cop should totally work on his rhetorical skills for occasions like this cuz we totally need creative and original speech when something like this happens in a community.

      1. avatar iCONOCLAST says:

        See above reply

    4. avatar ropingdown says:

      My report reading experience has been different. It seems to me that when the PC says it is one of the most heinous crimes he has seen in his career, it usually involved a particularly violent assault on innocents. Sneak one in your comment the next time you see a report contrary to this.

  10. avatar Pascal says:

    The h/t was not me. But thanks of thinking of me since I do send a few your way from time to time 🙂

    1. avatar Charles5 says:

      I imagine several people saw this and submitted it, including me.

  11. avatar Jack Brown says:

    Only 3 perps carried out the actual home invasion. The others are charged with conspiracy and accessory after.

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Plea deal?

  12. avatar jerry says:

    Perfect example also on the dangers of mag capacity limits. 6 perps, 7 rounds may not get it done.

    1. avatar jerry says:

      Oh,I see only 3 in the house. Still, multiple assailants, my point stands.

  13. avatar ThomasR says:

    Christopher Newsom and Shannon Christian, both raped and tortured for days and then murdered by six human predators.

    If you don’t have a strong stomach, best not to Google the details; but if you do; you will see proof that evil does exist in the world.

    Carry a weapon and NEVER surrender yourself or your gun if human predators have a weapon threatening a loved one; better that everyone were to die a quick and merciful death than to experience what Christopher and Shannon did before they were murdered.

  14. avatar Ralph says:

    this is probably one of the most disturbing and heinous crimes that I’ve ever seen

    Did you catch that? “Probably.” And “one of the most disturbing.”

    When something like this is only probably among the worst, then you’ve been policing in Mogadishu or something, not Wisconsin.

    1. avatar Sebudei says:

      He’s seen our elections, and the political process for selecting the Chief of Police and Dane Co Sheriff.

      So, nearly Mogadishu bad, but not Baltimore bad.

      1. avatar Jus Bill says:

        So I’d say around Anacostia bad.

        1. avatar Sebudei says:

          Like Milwaukee, only smaller.

  15. avatar C Wesley Bryant says:

    Returning briefly to the recent Benelli m4 vs SCAR post…Benelli with extended tube, accept no substitute.

    Not to worry, AG Holder will be sure their voting rights are safe and secure when they all get out in 5 to 10.

    1. avatar Another Robert says:

      Ya know, I would be really ashamed to be the party that so actively pursues the “felon vote”.

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Here on TTAG we have commentors that are all for completely restoring gun rights to felons once their sentence is up. Do we want that now?

        1. avatar Accur81 says:

          Not me. I’m fine with theses dirtbags not ever voting again (we wouldn’t know anyways without voter ID) or having gun rights ever again (they may still carry anyways because it doesn’t seem like they have much regard for the law). In fact, I’m pretty ok with them not breathing anymore, should they be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I’m at work and haven’t had time to research the whole story.

        2. avatar Chris Mallory says:

          I am in favor of restoring gun rights to felons. I am also in favor of bringing back the death penalty for rape and armed robbery and using it much more often for murder. Hang these six and restoring their rights isn’t an issue.

    2. avatar Gs650g says:

      The Benelli would put a slug through two of them lined up in a doorway or hall. Buckshot would make spaghetti as well.

  16. avatar Jack says:

    The people who say that home invasions are a statistically remote “straw-man argument” for armed self-defense–based on fear mongering orchestrated by the gun lobby–must have to work very hard to suppress the memory after reading a story like this.

    1. avatar JR says:

      It may be a statistically low probability event, but that does not matter. As someone here stated recently, it’s not about how likely it is, it’s about the stakes involved.

      The statistical likelihood is itself a straw man. When it happens to you, God forbid, the odds just went to 100%. Low probability at that moment will not save your life.

      1. avatar Jack says:


      2. avatar Ryan says:

        Risk is probability multiplied by consequence. While the probability is (thankfully) remote, the consequence is extraordinarily high. So the risk is still unacceptable. Besides it is not about “needs”, but rights.

      3. avatar OFBG says:

        …or you could reverse their statistical argument and point out how statistically rare gun homicide is in the US (contrary to media hype).

    2. avatar NYC2AZ says:

      I’ll bet the two victims in this story thought it was statistically remote as well… which is my standard response (with an example article) to the grabbers that bring it up.

      1. avatar C Wesley Bryant says:

        Given that they reside in Madison, a liberal utopia, they were likely rabid supporters of confiscatory gun programs. Statistically speaking, of course. As horrifying as this was, and I would not begin to wish it on any libtard, I have to wonder if their recent experiences will alter their political views. For their sake, I hope it does.

  17. avatar JR says:


    I’m eagerly awaiting Bob Cook’s comment on this one given he said…

    “I don’t understand the mindset of feeling like I would need to carry a gun as I would carry my smartphone. I know the threat is out there, but so is the threat of tornadoes, and I don’t carry a storm shelter on my person at all times. Because I don’t live like I could be under attack at any moment

    They entered the wrong home.

    That reminds me of a home invasion right up the road here back in December or November of ’13. Similar deal. Two baddies broke into the wrong home (they thought it was the house of a dealer rival they wanted to steal from), only the homeowners there were armed.

    Score that one a win for the armed home owners.

    You NEVER know when evil will come your way.

    1. avatar troutbum5 says:

      The difference between a tornado and a violent attack is that you can stop the attack. If you are armed and prepared. The tornado is going to keep coming, no matter what you do. Bad comparison.

  18. avatar the ruester says:

    Death by firing squad. Blindfold, cigarette and everything. Air it live on world star hip-hop.

    1. avatar Sammy says:

      With all respect to you Ruester,

      F that. No cigarette, and especially no blindfold, their victims were accorded no such compassion. And shoot only limbs and non vital areas, let them bleed out.

      1. avatar Dev says:

        Get some people who are bad shots and give them a couple of hours to get it right.

        1. avatar Defens says:

          Paging NYPD to the white courtesy telephone….

        2. avatar JoshtheViking says:

          And give them bb guns to make it extra difficult.

    2. avatar Charles5 says:

      I prefer public hangings. I don’t believe a lawful execution should be quick and painless.

      1. Public hanging is quick and painless just not consistently enough for or increasingly weak society.

        1. avatar Charles5 says:

          If you let them drop several feet and their neck is snapped, then yes, it is quick an painless. But, if you set up where they just dangle and basically strangle to death, it can take a minute or two and they are in agony the whole time.

        2. avatar ropingdown says:

          At Alcatraz the problem with hanging was that the hanged man’s head too often popped off. If the drop is too fast, too far, the rope diameter incorrect, or the condemned man’s neck to fragile, the decapitation results. I’m not sure why they considered that a problem. Perhaps the Liberal Auxiliary marched against needless head-popping? Or was it the resulting mess? I don’t know.

      2. avatar Chris Mallory says:

        So basically you aren’t any better than they are. Justice calls for their deaths, not their torture.

        1. avatar ropingdown says:

          I’m surprised you consider hanging to be torture. A minute of discomfort is hardly torture, and neither cruel nor, until very recently in the Republic, unusual.

    3. avatar Tommy Knocker says:

      For this kind of stuff, I much prefer burning at the stake. Roast them….

    4. avatar Cliff H says:

      Gentlemen, please! As supposed staunch supporters of the Second Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights are we so ready to disregard the Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

      As heinous as these sorts of crimes appear to us, do we dare take the stance of the Anti-2A crowd that our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights are subject to revision by the people or the government on a whim?

      We either support the entire Bill of Rights or we agree with the anti-Constitutionalists that these amendments do not in fact mean exactly what they say.
      We stand for all or we stand for nothing.

      1. avatar the ruester says:

        I actually totally agree with you; the blindfold and cigarette stay!

    5. avatar jughead says:

      +5 Internets. I could actually see that becoming a status-thing, with the perps yelling “Worldstar!” just before being executed.

    6. avatar Ralph says:

      No cigarettes. They are harmful.

  19. avatar SC Jeff says:

    I would bet money that whatever side of the gun control issue the victims were on before this happened, they are now pro gun for law abiding citizens today.

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      I’m not confident of that result. In my experience such people joint rabid anti-gun groups because….the perpetrators had guns. “We must stop all the gun violence!” “A gun raped my wife!” And so on. Of course I hope your expectation is the reality.

  20. avatar Sammy says:

    I not only believe in the death penalty, I believe in a very slow, degrading, death penalty in cases like this. A strong, clear, visual message must be sent that if you are committing crimes that shows no conscience or regard for humanity then your execution, preferably at the hands of one of the victims or their kin, will follow the path that YOU chose for your prey. A fire ant hill would do nicely.

    As per RF, Home carry people, home carry.

    1. avatar Cliff H says:

      Gentlemen, please! As supposed staunch supporters of the Second Amendment and the entire Bill of Rights are we so ready to disregard the Eighth Amendment: “Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.”

      As heinous as these sorts of crimes appear to us, do we dare take the stance of the Anti-2A crowd that our natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights are subject to revision by the people or the government on a whim?

      We either support the entire Bill of Rights or we agree with the anti-Constitutionalists that these amendments do not in fact mean exactly what they say.

      We stand for all or we stand for nothing.

      1. avatar Ardent says:

        Ok Ok, since you’ve missed the part where no one has responded to your repetitive post I’ll explain it to you. The hurt is ugly and fresh and people are won’t to talk about things they would not intend. Now let it go.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          My post was repetitive because by the time I read this article the Comments section was filled with this sort of claptrap. I understand the passions involved and truly believe that justice would be served by these bastards taking a 9mm up the pipe, or anywhere else on their execrable bodies, by the intended victims acting in self defense. That does not, however, excuse our pontificating on the Second Amendment on the one hand and then deciding we can and should ignore one or more of the others just because we are really, really pissed off about something.

          If we complain that the tactic of the Progressives and gun-grabbers is to undermine the Bill of Rights, then ourselves undermine the Eighth Amendment, where is the strength of our argument?

          As stated in my article a few days ago, none of the first ten amendments has ever been amended or repealed since ratification. Progressives and other self-serving politicians have done their best to modify these natural, civil and Constitutionally protected rights through unconstitutional legislation, but the rights themselves exist and we must support them en mass, or quit whining when the civilian disarmament crowd keeps coming after the 2nd Amendment.

      2. avatar Mister Fleas says:

        Why do you keep posting that garbage again and again?

        The phrase “Cruel and unusual”, before it was perverted by leftists, meant punishment that was above and beyond the law. Hanging rapists is only cruel and unusual punishment under modern rule of law. Men convicted of rape were routinely executed in America in the past.

    2. avatar ropingdown says:

      The Crown Heads of England believed the same thing. They thought that to “hang, draw, and quarter” a man would make an impression. They decided the punishment should be applied to religious dissenters. That is why my ancestor in my father’s line, a “Quaker,” fled England and took up farming in West Jersey near Philadelphia.

      I think we can skip the pursuit of horrid deaths and concentrate on the certainty of apprehension and severe punishment. I’m for the death penalty where there is no possibility of mistaken identity. Often it is possible to be certain of the identity. A panel will have to resolve the issue.

    3. avatar PeterZ in West Tennessee says:

      I, too, favor the death penalty in cases like this. However, I do not favor torture.

      I can’t understand why the various states, in their attempt to make executions painless, keep screwing up so badly. I can think of two simple, painless, certain mentods of execution. Each are much more certain of being painless than the current three drug procedure.

      1. Overdose of heroin. Most heroin users who OD never even get the needle out of their arm, and it must be enjoyable to use if they keep wanting to do it.

      2. Anoxia. Use a gas chamber type of room and simply flood it with nitrogen, displacing the oxygen. Conciousness simply fades away until your brain starves of oxygen.

      Either one of these methods would eliminate all of the “one of the drugs didn’t work and the perp died in agony” complaints from the anti-death penalty crew.

  21. avatar mrvco says:

    The Anti’s will of course consider the fact that no one died a validation/ justification for gun control. Just think how many deaths may have occurred if the innocent couple would have had a gun and tried to defend themselves.

    “Rape me, Just don’t kill me”.

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Is that going to be the new MDA slogan?

      1. avatar Sammy says:

        you owe me a cup of coffee and a keyboard. I saved the mouse.

      2. avatar Sammy says:

        You owe me a cup of coffee and a keyboard. I saved the mouse.

      3. avatar mrvco says:

        “Rape me, Just don’t kill me” certainly gets my vote.

        “Just try and rape me, I’ll blow your freaking head off” just doesn’t sound very “Anti”.

        1. avatar Cliff H says:

          Which head?

    2. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

      You laugh today.

      Back in the 90’s, there was a ecumenical group who was saying just that.

  22. avatar Me says:

    The person in the last mugshot could have been Obama’s son.

  23. avatar Another Robert says:

    Actually, only 3 actually busted in. The other three were planners, or after-the-fact accessories, as I understand it. So, even one firearm in the hands of the victims would most likely have saved them. Certainly, even with just 3 on-site perps, more than 10 rounds could very well make the difference. And yes, the lead bad guy had a couple of felony convictions under his belt, including sexual assault, and arguably should have been behind bars in the big house and not in the victims’ house. The state’s insistence on turning those kind of animals loose is yet another compelling argument for RKBA

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Sadly, my guess is that this collection of human refuse was out on bail and prowling the streets again by 10 a.m. the next business day.

    2. avatar JR says:

      You know, I might have my cynicism dialed up too high, but I’m starting to wonder if that’s not the reason “they” hate guns and self defense rights so much.

      People that defend themselves kill the pawns…so long as the revolving door exists, crime stays high enough (and stuff like this happens, which leads to calls to “DO SOMETHING!”) to justify more laws, more active involvement by government, more activists, lobby groups, and of course, the news media gets a never ending stream of stories to report.

      Thugs are the pawns in this game; yeah, I can feel a bit of sympathy for these guys when looked at in this light. (Not much, though, they still make their own choices).

      The thugs think the good willed State is doing them a favor with early release and low sentences and parole and probation. I wonder if they realize how thoroughly they are being used.

      When a home owner successfully removes one of these career recidivists from the cycle, or more correctly if enough do, there are so many elements to a lot of narratives that get challenged. The State did not solve the problem, and they State has a harder time justifying the money they spend, the new cops they need, etc, etc, etc.

      It is a fascinating landscape upon which to gaze.

      1. avatar Charles5 says:

        It is the old mantra of self preservation. I the police were ably eliminate crime, would we really need police anymore at least on the scale that we have them now? If gov’t fixed all of society’s problems, then there would be no need for gov’t.

      2. avatar OFBG says:

        Hmmm. Never thought about it that way, but it does make a lot of sense.

        Still, inspires absolutely NO sympathy for the thug perps though.

        Being from a poor and/or “underpriviliged” background should provide PLENTY of motivation to get educated, get working, and get your shite together – just as it has for multiple generations of all the immigrants who came to this country from all over the world both by free will and by force.

        Expecting anything less and excusing thuggery is just being racist (like most libs).

        1. avatar JR says:

          Yeah, I agree. By the sympathy remark, I just meant in terms of a very bird’s eye view of “lives wasted.”

  24. avatar FoRealz? says:

    Public hangings. Bring them back. The gibbet for them all. Sick shits.

  25. avatar Jim Scrummy says:

    I thought Madison, WI was one those liberal/blue/nirvana/utopias where unicorns s-ing skittles happens, with no crime…? Wow, my bubble has been burst-not really. These vermin do need some exterminating.

    1. avatar Sebudei says:

      We call it, “25 square miles surrounded by reality.”

  26. avatar Mark N. says:

    WAIT wait wait wait wait. Robert, you’ve gone overboard on this one. YES it should have been a DGU, but as Another Robert says, it was three guys, not six. AND Wisconsin has very liberal gun laws, allowing open carry and shall issue concealed carry; NO ONE denied the victims their right to keep and bear arms. I don’t think Wisconsin has magazine limits either.
    Instead, being in Madison (an incredibly liberal enclave in an otherwise mostly sensible state–a college town), the victims were probably a couple of liberals who don’t believe in guns. You cannot blame “society” or “the government” for their failure to arm themselves–that was their choice, and they will bear the scars of that choice forever. You can only hope that their attackers will receive appreciable long term sentences, and the victims will have learned from their mistake. What they most certainly are not are victims of anti-2A laws.

    1. avatar JR says:

      “it was three guys, not six.”

      That makes it better somehow?

      Those folks that made the choice to not be armed did not do so in a vacuum. We will likely never know WHY they made that choice. Perhaps they never even thought about it at all, one way or another. There are a lot of Americans who live with their head in the sand with respect to real violence.

      But, being in a college town, it is VERY likely that they were “strongly persuaded,” via peer pressure if not overt coercion, that guns were icky, bad and the cause of all evil. Further, it is also possible that they were likewise convinced that even fighting back was somehow “wrong.”

      I say this because I’ve seen it..not in Madison, but in a very similar college town in a mostly conservative state (Chapel Hill, NC). In Chapel Hill, people have been sold the idea that putting up cardboard signs declaring campus a “No Rape Zone” would stop a serial violent rapist. It did not, obviously.

      Despite the miserable failure of that program in the early 90’s, they revisited it at least one more time. You too can own your very own “Rape Free Zone” T-Shirt from their 2011 campaign.

      And while I admit this group is fairly narrowly focused, and perhaps not mainstream even on a campus like UNC-CH, I can say that I DID know people like this during my time there (and I did not get out much, graduate school did not allow much time for social activism even if I had been interested in stuff like this):

      Please read their ideology behind rape prevention.

      Peer pressure in these campus towns is a POWERFUL thing, so it very well may be that these victims drank the Kool Aid that (a) life’s dangers were not really that great, (b) you can reason with violent actors as if they are reasoning people with similar values and (c) someone else will do the heavy lifting in terms of personal defense.

      Of course, I don’t know that. I don’t want to assume it’s true. But, I do think “society” and the “local culture” as pressuring agents do share SOME of the blame in perpetuating these kinds of myths.

      1. avatar Another Robert says:

        It doesn’t make it “better”, it just makes it more accurate. And RF ( and consequently others) used the number as an argument for high-cap mags. We want to leave stretching the facts to make our arguments to the other side I think, because even a valid argument looks invalid if it is made on the basis of “stretched” facts.

    2. avatar JR says:

      “it was three guys, not six.”

      Aside from that pleasure that comes from being pedantic, how does that make it better?

      I had a big old huge long post on the topic of social peer pressure in college towns that somehow got dumped.

      1. avatar JR says:

        {please delete that second reply if at all possible….ttag is lagging bad right now and there are a lot double and triple posts}

        1. avatar Jus Bill says:

          Your browser’s “Reload” icon is your friend.

        2. avatar JR says:

          Nope; wasn’t the issue, but thanks, anyway.

          I reloaded the page about 10 times before posting the second message, and on this and other pages many users had multiple post copies at about the same time I posted.

          There was something technical going on, but it was not my browser.


  27. avatar RegicidalManiac says:

    Oh good. I live in Madison. This is why the FNX has 17+1 in it at all times.

  28. avatar John Boch says:

    It’s all about the consequences of the choices we make.

    That homeowner and his wife chose not to have a self-defense piece handy – perhaps because they felt guns were icky.

    And, for 45 minutes, the three sub-human predators had their fun with the missus.

    That’s that *feel*?

    Ready to go buy a gun yet, buddy?


  29. avatar TheBear says:

    Holy crap… 6 of them?

    This is more like a missed defensive CLAYMORE use than defensive gun use.

  30. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    Madison, WI seems to be a hotbed of this type of predation against women. I’m sure that lots of the people in Madison are effectively brain-dead on the issue of guns and crime, and they have the results to show for it.

    I’ll just leave you all with a few choice snippets, first a couple more gang rapes (the second complete with the cries of the anguished mother realizing that “her baby” is going away for quite a while):

    Annnnd then the usual pablum from the cops in Madison, the Chief, spouting his twaddle on gun control, as is the habit of liberal big-city cops:

  31. avatar Maineuh says:

    Could happen to anyone. ANYONE. I’ll never understand those twits who keep talking about statistical improbabilities. Math will protect you! Screw that noise. I’m gonna go hug my Mossberg and make sure the tube is full.

  32. avatar JPD says:

    This is where good ol’ western justice would come in handy. Brought to trial the next day, witnesses testify, build the gallows, hang them day after trial. Done deal.

  33. avatar Tom from Georgia says:

    For all the frustration that’s been voiced regarding trying and punishing the perps, that’s all after the fact. I’m less interested in the justice system’s failures than that of people who will not, for whatever reason, take concrete steps to defend themselves against potential harm. Crying for more police, tougher sentencing, etc etc – all worthless horseshit, as far as I’m concerned. Excuse me. You, and only YOU, can decide for yourself to arm yourself with the means to defend your well-being and that of your loved ones. Period. End of story. If you cannot or will not take those steps, then fine – but do not, I repeat DO NOT, tell others what to do, not once, not ever.

    And if you live in a jurisdiction that refuses to let you protect yourself, then you need to either move, or become more politically involved and get the law changed. Again, simple as that. If you’re politically involved and still can’t get the law changed, then you need to decide what’s more important to you – obeying a law that can get you killed, or not obeying said law and arming yourself anyway. The animals, pigs, and politicians don’t care about you, why should you care about them?

    I know that it brings up the specter of an often ugly and brutal past, but reports like this do help to understand why we had mob justice from time to time.


    1. avatar whatever says:

      Well said. All this lynching talk is now after the fact. Hanging Drawing and Quartering didn’t stop brigands and highwaymen from plying their trade. Some thugs are either predators who don’t care about punishment or so well organized that they can play the odds and still come out ahead. I can’t speak for anyone else but if they try to prey on me the odds of sleeping like a baby after it’s over will be very much in my favor and not at all in theirs.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Hanging Drawing and Quartering didn’t stop brigands and highwaymen from plying their trade.

        It certainly stopped repeat offenders.

        1. avatar whatever says:

          Nope to inefficient use of government resources for something that amounts to little more than macabre entertainment. I want a justice system that keeps violent felons off the streets, not a bunch of dog shooting thugs badly imitating a lynch mob complete with lynching the wrong guy out of blood lust or race hate as happened far too recently in America.

          They even held picnics while they burned hung and castrated the wrong guy dozens of times over. Picnics and photos while butchering the wrong guy like a pig. That’s where that mentality goes, Ralph, and I don’t want that kind of entertainment. I simply want people to be able to protect themselves in an efficient and just manner, and that’s all.

  34. Does this crime in the land of serial killers really shock anyone?

    1. avatar Jus Bill says:

      Obviously, yes. See most of the posts above.

  35. avatar former water walker says:

    I vote castration followed by a good old-fashioned chain gang. Racist? Tell that to my beautiful black wife.

  36. avatar Ardent says:

    This sort of thing NEVER happens here. Then again, the last three shootings in the news in my county were ALL homeowners shooting intruders.

    Armed self defense doesn’t just work on the purp shot, but on everyone thinking about doing whatever it is that he was doing that got him shot.

    ‘Hot’ burglaries here are unheard of. Now, I can’t prove that it’s because virtually every household contains a gun, but I have my suspicions.

  37. avatar Chris Mallory says:

    There is no evidence that the victims were unarmed. The thugs broke in at 6 am while they were sleeping. A dog or an alarm would have been a good start. Otherwise, it doesn’t matter how many guns you have, when you wake up with a rough hand over your mouth the guns aren’t going to do any good.

    1. avatar Doc 03911 says:

      They will if they’re under the pillow.

      1. avatar ropingdown says:

        My belief exactly.

  38. avatar MotoJB says:

    Get a rope…six of them. Seriously.

  39. avatar Grumpy in Kali says:


    Why wasn’t the sleeping pregnant woman packing a shotty up her coochie???!!! She must not be a red-blooded American woman.

    Wait, there are laws that are not being enforced along with judges not properly sentencing violent criminals and prisons letting inmates go due to overcrowding and budget cuts? Noooooo……

    The Hammurabi Code would be quite effective in this nation….but criminals would find additional ways to use their willingly committed crimes to get “disability” money.

  40. avatar WI Patriot says:

    Madison, WI, aside from being the capital city of the state of Wisconsin, is also the leftist/liberal capital in the state of Wisconsin…
    There are 3 cities in the state of WI that have turned it liberal blue, Madison, Milwaukee, and Green Bay…the rest of the state of WI remains conservative red…

    1. avatar AznMike says:

      Really? Figured Green Bay to be a relative red city. The way I always considered it was the southern part of WI was relatively blue versus the mid to northern. Which reminds me, I should go pick up some more boxes of defensive ammo when I go home for Spring Break.

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        I thought “Spring Break” was in the rear-view mirror. It’s mid-March, fer cryin’ out loud! Aren’t finals in about three weeks?

        1. avatar AznMike says:

          Nope, finals are in May.

    2. avatar WayneMHK says:

      Even in the reddest of states, wherever there’s a university………

      1. avatar William Burke says:

        But most college kids may vote locally, but the votes are counted in their home districts…

  41. But had the victims a gun and used it, would you have given them the George Zimmerman treatment? That is the real question.

  42. avatar HiPlanesDrifter says:

    These six obviously have a Death Wish. Let’s accommodate them. Too bad Paul Kersey, er, Charles Bronson, isn’t around to be a part of it.

  43. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

    For those who think that the unwashed masses calling for a violent end to rapists is “why we need professional police,” I submit the following news story out of Detroit, another liberal, big-government shangri-la:

    “100 serial rapists identified after rape kits from Detroit Crime Lab are finally processed”

    So much for the assertions that professional police are the bulwark against crime and criminals.

    1. avatar ropingdown says:

      Very interesting. But we have to consider the budget squeeze. Repeatedly over three decades Detroit had to decide whether to grant new raises to the PD or process the rape kits. The choice for any big city political machine would be obvious.

      1. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        That’s exactly what I’ve been on about WRT to cops.

        They’ll loot the treasury to line their own pockets. The actual pursuit and generation of real evidence against real criminals (ie, non-political criminals) will always take an inferior priority to the comp/bennies packages, the toy budget and the donut fund.

        There are at least a dozen large cities in the US where you’ll be reading about severe public spending cut-backs in the next two years, and the central issue will be the outlay for law enforcement pensions that are underfunded and the outlandish defined benefit pension rules that are allowing cops to retire with high five and even six-figure pensions payments per year. Here’s a little sample of what is coming down the road, the most recent case I’m keeping my eye on: San Jose’, CA:

        Just as in Detroit, they’re cutting the salaries of the current employees (cops) to fund the retirement packages of those who are no longer out on the street.

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      When do we get a professional police force?

  44. avatar EagleScout87 says:

    “Anyone who says differently – or would do anything to hobble the defenders’ ability to shoot their assailants – is a callous, delusional human being bent on increasing the sum of human suffering.”

    That IS all.

  45. avatar WayneMHK says:

    I hate seeing these things happen, but when they inevitably do, I make sure the wife reads about it. She’ll never question the shotty behind the headboard or M&P on the night stand.

  46. avatar Scythian Arrows says:

    Around [urban youth], never [take it easy].

  47. avatar IdahoPete says:

    Hey, Madison Wisconsin – liberal heartland of Wisconsin, home of a wonderfully sensitive and caring university – also known as “The Sexual Predators Paradise”, due to large numbers of liberal, unarmed, gun-fearing female college students. And what is the recommended solution to heinous, evil actions like this?

    Dane County’s Victim/Witness Assistance program is helping the couple recover from the incident and hopes the community will provide support and stay positive. “We don’t see senseless brutality like this very often,” says Julie Foley with that group. “We can help facilitate recovery just by being the community that we are.”

    Yeah, that will really help stop this kind of evil. Feckless idiots.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      Turn the bastids over to the Comanches.

  48. avatar Chris says:

    Hrm, I have read this story. Something they neglected to mention in this review of this incident, is the house the hit had a man and a woman in it.

    The man was legally blind, and they beat the shit out of him.
    The woman was 6 months pregnant and they raped the shit out of her.

    Then they took everything of value that they could from the home before they left.

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