dayton shooter ar rifle pistol gun feat
(Dayton Police Department via AP)
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Ohio Shooting dayton shooter ar rifle pistol gun feat
This August 2019 photo provided by the Dayton Police Department shows the firearm used by Connor Betts in a mass shooting in a popular entertainment district on Aug. 4, 2019, in Dayton, Ohio. (Dayton Police Department via AP)

The Dayton spree killer who murdered 10 people and injured 27 more had cocaine, alcohol and an anti-depressant in his system when he opened fire. A coroner’s report indicates that he was hit by “at least” 24 rounds during a shootout with police.

According to,

Betts suffered at least 24 gunshot wounds, [Montgomery County coroner Dr. Kent] Harshbarger said. After being shot, Biehl said, Betts tried twice to get back up. Officers, he said, are trained to use force until a threat has ended.

“He is still armed, he still has significant firepower,” Biehl said. “Until he is separated from his firepower, lethal force is warranted.”

Here’s the AP’s report . . .

The Dayton shooter who killed nine people had cocaine on him and in his system during the mass shooting that police stopped in what they described as a combat-like gun battle, a coroner said Thursday.

Montgomery County coroner Dr. Kent Harshbarger said Connor Betts, 24, had a pipe device and a baggie of cocaine with him, and cocaine, alcohol and an antidepressant in his blood. Harshbarger also reported in his preliminary autopsy findings that police stopped Betts with at least two dozen gunshots that hit him at gaps in his body armor.

“This incident involved an intense firefight that is rarely seen other than combat and an active-shooter incident,” Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl said. “The officers were confronted with a moving shooter wearing body armor, actively executing victims with an AR-15 type weapon and high capacity magazines.”

The coroner said police gunfire hit two people. One of them died, but Harshbarger said the gunman, not police, fired the lethal round.

Meanwhile, Betts’ parents have apologized for the wording in his obituary that didn’t mention the mass shooting whose victims included his younger sister.

Stephen and Moira Betts issued a statement that said the obituary for Connor Betts was “insensitive in not acknowledging the terrible tragedy that he created.”

They said they wanted to reflect the son they knew and weren’t trying to “minimize horror of his last act.”

The obituary described Betts as a “funny, articulate and intelligent man with striking blue eyes and a kind smile” before it was taken down Wednesday by a funeral home in their hometown of Bellbrook, Ohio.

Betts opened fire in a popular entertainment district in Dayton. Police shot him as he neared a crowded bar.

It’s not known whether Betts targeted his 22-year-old sister, Megan. They had spent an hour together at a bar in the same area before the shooting.

The family will be holding private memorial services for both of their children.

Ethan Kollie, a longtime friend of Betts who told investigators he bought the body armor, a 100-round magazine and a key part of the gun Betts used in the attack was in court Thursday after a judge balked at releasing him from jail.

Authorities have said there’s no indication Kollie knew Betts was planning the mass shooting. But Kollie is charged with lying on a federal firearms form while buying a pistol not used in the shooting.

Prosecutors said Kollie first spoke with investigators just hours after the shooting.

Kollie’s attorney wants him released on house arrest.

A judge has been reviewing where Kollie would stay under house arrest with electronic monitoring and other conditions.

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  1. Why am I not surprised that this clown was on SSRIs? This is what happens when you fail to raise young men to be men. Let them get hooked on socialism, and then drug them to the gills.

      • “…had cocaine, alcohol and an anti-depressant in his system when he opened fire. A coroner’s report indicates that he was hit by “at least” 24 rounds…”

        And THIS is why we need standard cap mags that hold 10+ rounds. I always wince whenever I hear a Leftist politician or talking head say “who needs more than 10 rounds?” Can you imagine if two crackhead losers tried to enter your home while high, and it took several rounds’ worth of center mass shots to stop him from lunging at your wife? Then you have the next one right behind him to deal with.

        Or if I use Creepy Uncle Joe’s advice and send two shotgun blasts in their direction with a coach gun, I’ll then be out of rounds and have to throw the gun at them.

        • Joe’s advice was to fire those two rounds in the air off your back deck. Then, you wouldn’t have ammunition left to hurt the intruders.

        • This Dayton Police Chief Richard Biehl is acting like a real tool. “This incident involved an intense firefight that is rarely seen other than combat…… and an active-shooter incident,” Really? A 20 on 1 is a combat situation?

          “The…shooter (was) executing victims with an AR-15 type weapon and high capacity magazines.” Oh! So he was shooting the AR with one hand and what? Swinging a sharpened “high capacity magazine” with the other. Dang, looks like everyone has been using them the wrong way all these years.

      • You don’t get put on SSRIs by being ‘normal’ and ‘stable’ all on your own. You don’t typically medicate with a half-dozen illegal narcotics if you are ‘normal’ and ‘stable’ all on your own, either.

        Even this guy’s weird-ass ‘friends’ (confederates is more like it) knew he was a hot mess & tried to hide his weirdness from the world so he wouldn’t be picked up by authorities. Chalk up prescribed brain-pills as just another feature of the profile; you’d have to be an idiot to think they were what caused him to dive off the deep end he was already swimming in.

        What’s needed is a society that stops tolerating this sort of aberrant behavior, so 1) the weirdo friends of this guy would be forced to show some personal restraint or face consequences themselves, and 2) so the weirdo friends would be more likely to report full-on psychos like this murderer instead of aiding & abetting him. All the red flags & what all in the world won’t matter a bit when no one is looking for or willing to report scary individuals for fear their feelings might be hurt.

      • Many people take SSRIs and don’t kill people.

        Is blaming a drug that is safely used by tens of millions is any different than blaming a rifle that is safely used by tens of millions?

    • I know someone who was having some emotional issues awhile back, due to some serious problems, so her doc gave her some anti anxiety medicine.

      Within six months she changed from one of the most thoughtful people I know into a person who was cold and didn’t care about things. She later got off the meds and within a few months was she back to normal. She said she litterally couldn’t feel emotions while on the drugs.

      This was a person who would cry like a baby during sad movies. And quickly turned into a cold person, and then back again. That was some creepy shit to witness with my own eyes. Those pills are no bueno.

      • The pills are designed to numb you so you can continue living without addressing the root cause of your issues. Once you get off the pills you could snap because you haven’t fixed your issues. Sometimes the pills make you emotionless to other people’s pain and suffering, which makes murdering a lot easier.

        Some countries put their soldiers on drugs to get them to fight to the death. Without the drugs they would be more prone to run away. They found to get most of them to conduct suicide missions drugs were necessary.

        Even in Iraq and Afghanistan the militants would drug themselves up before they went on suicide missions against the U.S. military. This allowed them to take many rounds and get back up to donate their vests.

    • We see that a majority of these people have been prescribed SSRI’s, and the labels on the meds state they may cause suicidal or violent behaviour, yet the research about the long term effects on brain function does not seem to exist. If they do exist, they are hard to access.

      When I have brought up the possibility of a link to these meds and the violence, I have been accused of making excuses for the perps and I am telling people not to take these drugs. None of which is true. I suggest that studies should be done, especially in the area of brain function on developing brains and on older brains that have signs of deteriorating before the introduction of these drugs. And if such studies have been done, where is the data?

      • Psychiatrists have no proven system or ability to address mental issues successfully other than prescribing psychotropic drugs to correct (chemical imbalance in the brain) meanwhile having no way to predict who has the imbalances, how it may affect them, or why they occur.

        The, as noted, they really do not know the mechanism these drugs use to mask the symptoms, but they do know that they may cause “suicidal idiations” or “violent outbursts” and that if the “patient” stops taking the drugs his original symptoms, or worse, reappear.

        Meanwhile, “Big Pharma” is making billions of dollars pushing these drugs as cure-alls fro mental anguish or depression, not to mention in social experiments to make children stop acting like children when they are trapped in school all day.

    • Socialism had nothing to do with his mental illness. Lets stop making such absolutely ignorant and bizarre comments. Millions of U.S. Citizens are Socialists to the core and none commit mass murder.

      • … and yet every mass shooting can be linked to socialism, directly or indirectly. Socialists are objectively worse than Nazis. They have ten times the body count.

        • Hank – Nazis were not Socialists. The use of “Socialist” in naming their political party movement was propaganda to gain an advantage in a population where social movements of various types were popular. Nazi Fascists were in the business of invading militarily and killing all the Socialists, Communists, Monarchists, Western Capitalists Democracies they possibly could.

          Fascism is the “other” political concept that is the natural blood enemy of and will not tolerate any other political conept.

          Also, the lie a lot to gain power. Heaps and heaps of lies. Just ask Goebbels, he knows.

        • Bullshit. The Nazis were socialists who accomplished their goals. Like Stalin, Mao, and the Khmer Rouge.

        • My mistake… I should have specified that OTHER socialists are worse than Nazis. National socialists are still socialists. Just because they killed international socialists doesn’t make them less socialist.

        • Joseph Quixote & pwrserge …

          Astonishing ignorance. It’s like arguing with a toddler throwing a tantrum.

          I’d blame the schools but when I went we were taught the differences between our various enemies. Fascists, Socialists, Communists, assorted dictatorships, all different and not one is the other no matter how much they lie to you about who and what they are.

          Fascinating how you have bought into your enemies lies, embraced them, snuggled up close …

        • I’d be curious to know how those that believe that the Nazi’s were socialists reconcile these bits and others like it from Mein Kampf:

          “In the August of 1914 the German worker was looked upon as an adherent of Marxist socialism. That was a gross error. When those fateful hours dawned the German worker shook off the poisonous clutches of that plague;”

          “The instinct for the preservation of one’s own species is the primary cause that leads to the formation of human communities. Hence the State is a racial organism, and not an economic organisation. The difference between the two is so great as to be incomprehensible to our contemporary so-called ‘statesmen’. That is why they like to believe that the State may be constituted as an economic structure, whereas the truth is that it has always resulted from the exercise of those qualities which are part of the will to preserve the species and the race. But these qualities always exist and operate through the heroic virtues and have nothing to do with commercial egoism;”

          “The qualities which are employed for the foundation and preservation of a State have accordingly little or nothing to do with the economic situation…”

          The book is literally filled with this stuff pages and pages of it. Go ahead, I’d like to hear the grand theory sees this as socialism.

        • Socialism is not just economic policy. It is an all encompassing, “totalitarian” system that controls all aspects of life. You can read about it in “The Soviet Tragedy”. Also, Nazis were “socialists“ as many of their plans aligned with the policies of democrats today: societal welfare support, gun control, redistribution (with the exception of the elites, just like communist countries), played identity politics, and many more policies (but for “ze germans”). When you compare Nazi Germany and communist/socialist USSR, how they organized their societies were extremely similar and the goals were the same (while being different in some ways, especially efficiency and implementation of programs) : “The Dictators”. Nazis were race-socialists, similar to many of the rare, fringe white nationalists in the US are. I don’t plan on arguing further (read those books, and others on the topic), as it is a waste of time due to how indoctrination works (i.e. makes people close their eyes and plug their ears and not continue to educate themselves on a topic where historical analysis has been done addressing this topic). Hell, you could take Hillary’s platform from 2016 and see how Hitler proposed and enacted a bunch of things.

          comedic analysis in link:

        • Enuf, Nazism can placed in its own distinct class as it sits so far outside the realm of traditional politics. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not a branch of socialism. It is. It has far more in common with extreme left wing government philosophy then anything right wing. And before you panic that is absolutely true in *American* politics. See, there’s a big difference what it means to be right and left in America, then what it means in Europe or anywhere for that matter. The problem with political words right now is people often use foreign/international political concepts interchangeably with domestic ones, which cannot logically be done. For instance, the meaning of “liberal” in Europe or Australia is not the same as a liberal in America. A conservative in Britain is not at all like a conservative in America. Liberal internationally often has more to do with purely economic philosophies and then you define your political stance with other terms. Another example, In America right wing policies lead you down the road of less and less government. That’s the complete opposite of fascism or anything totalitarian. That’s not so in a place like Germany or Russia. American conservatism actually has a lot more in common with what in international politics is called “Realism.” Which makes sense.

        • Enuf, you are full of shit. Nazis & Soviet Russian socialists/communists (same thing, especially back in the 30s) got along just fine & had the exact same goals, basic philosophy, methods, and figureheads right up until the Nazis pulled off a political victory in Germany. Suddenly, now that they had political power, they didn’t feel like ceding it all to a bunch of Russian oligarchs a thousand miles away; they (the Nazis) wanted to rule Germany themselves. Even then, it was still mostly an internal power struggle/civil-war type conflict as the Nazi party purged itself of members who would not disavow Russian rule, and the two nations got along decently. Right up until Germany pulled off a military victory in Europe. Suddenly, now that they had unquestioned military power in Europe and a common border with Soviet Russia, they didn’t feel like stopping their expansionist goals at a road sign.

          After Hitler ordered the incursion into Russia, Stalin found himself having to distance his regime from its prior alliance with the Germans, and his propagandists (or maybe the Germans’ I forget which did this first) concocted this nonsense of Fascism being “right wing” so that the doctrine of Socialism –previously considered “left wing” as a reference to the seating chart in France’s parliament prior to the revolution– could be portrayed as a polar opposite that had absolutely NOTHING in common with Nazis. “We stand for everything they DON’T stand for” type nonsense, if you will. “Right wingers” are monarchists, or taken more broadly, loyalists to the existing regime, if anything. The term makes no sense in a representative government that frequently changes management (unless the question is whether to abandon that representative component for a permanent dictator)

          Naturally, the opposing side likewise found utility in being artificially distanced from their sibling ‘philosophy’ so the bogus “right wing” label was proudly adopted by Germans eager to pretend they hadn’t been Workers’ Party full-on communists ten years earlier. Propagandists in academia, on both sides, around the world, were likewise eager to embrace the lie, and that’s how we arrive at the current status quo where Fascism and Socialism/Communism are treated as if they aren’t practically identical apart from a couple slogans.

          Which is where the ‘horseshoe spectrum’ conceit comes into play; any passing honest examination shows that Fascism & Socialism/Communism are identical, so the liars once again modified their story by bending the ‘spectrum’ that put Nazis opposite Soviets into a circle –but once which most importantly, “and don’t forget this you will be quizzed on it later,” didn’t meet at the ends. Gotta maintain that precious illusion that Fascism & Socialism/Communism aren’t the same thing, that there are important ‘differences’ between them, such as which group they dishonestly blame for all the problems in the world, or whose letterhead is used to dictate the months’ factory production quota.

        • barnbwt,

          Let me see if I have this right – Since getting stabbed through the heart, and getting shot through the heart have the same practical outcome most of the time, then a knife is a gun, and no further distinction need exist?

          🔪= 🔫 – same thing.

          Or is is possible that there are meaningful if nuanced differences that go beyond this level of analysis?

          Perhaps you will now make the case that Mussolini was also not a fascist but was in fact a socialist, or perhaps that North Korea is really a democracy, after all its right there in the name.

        • So where did you learn that Communists/Nazis were different? In your government school as taught by brainwashed “teachers” using textbooks written by college professors educated in our Utopian leftist universities>? The only one apparently who swallowed the leftist line lock stock and barrel is you Enuf. The liberal left in our country has tried for the last fifty years to say that Stalin and Mao weren’t quite as bad as Hitler and his murderous crew. In point of fact they were arguably worse.
          Go educate yourself and get out of history as taught by Howard Zinn and his predecessors.

        • The utopian claptrap of Karl Marx and the “Socialism” and “Communism” he and his contemporaries and followers defined, oh hell yes, absolutely. Insanity, could not agree more.

          In the end, evil, bloody and murderous.

      • “Tolerance” and “diversity” sure as shit had to do with his mental illness going unaddressed, though. Obviously that whole family has genetic brain issues; Antifa psycho killer brother, tranny sister, and the parents/friends encouraging both of their degenerate lifestyles. Yup, a whole family of .1%-.2% outliers on the psychological spectrum…crazy loves company, as they say. Anyone who raised a voice to this killer’s batshit-crazy friends would be called intolerant of other cultures or lifestyles, anyone who objected to his sister’s untreated mental illness would be called homophobic or transphobic or whatever. In reality, it sounds like a pair of mental cases being egged on to out do each other by both friends & family until the least stable of the bunch finally broke with reality entirely.

  2. Another with Big Pharma as his co-pilot?

    Maybe it’s not the guns (tools) that are evil. Time to look at Big Pharma and their solution to Mental Illness?

    • It’s probably not even a real mental illness but a refusal of leftists to properly raise their kids. After all, it’s a lot easier to drug your kid into a stupor and sit his ass in front of an XBox than to spend an few hours every day doing actual parenting. I’m honestly shocked this ANTIFA schmuck had both parents.

      • It seems more than a parenting issue, PWRSERGE. There are so many indicators that people’s endocrine systems are disrupted, malfunctioning, out of balance. Environmental toxins such as Glyphosate, BPA, atrazine, mercury and hundreds of others are known endocrine disruptors. We are all exposed at increasing concentrations, and the very young are the most as risk. Rather than try and rebalance the endocrine system, the standard of care is to medicate with SSRIs. It is no wonder some of these people become violent.

        There are plenty of indicators in the news that endocrine disruption is widespread and causing much misery and social unrest. I will not say more that that, but we all see it.

        Conclusion: it is NOT the guns. People are poisoned and then we medicate them with more poison.

        • Endocrine disorders are absurdly rare and hardly a root cause. The problem is medication as a shortcut to get boys to act like girls. Young boys need outlets simply not provided by today’s liberal parents and educators.

        • i would place “diagnosed” before your initial statement.
          mosquito abatement, water from plastic. system damage.

      • This. Have seen this sh!t in all the schools I’ve worked in over the last 30 years and it’s only getting worse…

        • Exactly. It is happening across all social and economic classes, across all geographic locations. Young people being medicated into oblivion because of behavior issues. Dr. Stephanie Seneff, at MIT, has done some astounding trend analysis on this topic.

      • PWRSERGE, you are not correct about endocrine disorders being absurdly rare. They are actually quite common. I have been studying this for 20 years. I accept that you will not believe me and I will continue the work. With all respect.

    • Big Pharma makes cocaine???
      Oh! You mean the other “Big Pharma” that the Libertarians support.
      Got it!!!

      • Didn’t opioid use in America get out of hand when they started prescribing bottles of it? Wasn’t Florida full of pills when they made access very easy? Isn’t large portions of white America addicted to these pharma versions of street drugs? Aren’t a lot of people now dying of overdoses because of it? Are these prescription drugs a gateway to illegal drug use and other drugs?

        • No it got out of hand when idiots stopped following the directions on the bottle, costing those who have a legitimate need for the medication access to an effective, inexpensive drug.

        • It got out of hand after 9-11 our govt wanted Afgan warlords to be on our side. So the US govt looked the other way as heroin was imported. It is the Afgan cash crop.

        • chief censor
          The problem with Libertarians is they support drug abuse. They stopped believing in personal accountability decades ago. That’s were the armed citizen comes in to play. We ge to shoot a drug abuser dead when they violate private property. Or when they try to mass murder a crowd of innocent people.

      • Big pharma DOES make cocaine. Pure and perfect as the driven snow, and ridiculously cheap (or at least the military was buying it really cheap 25 years ago). It’s used to pack the nose for rhinoplasty and other nasal procedures. It’s also very tightly controlled.

  3. Where are all the comments I see when it’s a black kid?
    Why not shoot the gun out his hand?
    Why they gots to shoot to kill?
    Why they shoot so many bullets?

  4. It appears this guy was really going after black people in particular. He had the opportunity to go after groups of people but decided to chase down black people into a bar full of black people. There was other businesses with large groups of white people. He instead decided to go to the area where he knew cops were because that is where the black people congregated. He scouted the entire street and establishments for at least an hour.

    He went to his car to retrieve his backpack that had his gun, mags, armor, etc. He spent almost 10 minutes in the shadows assembling his gun and loading it. Then he ran out of the corner shooting his sister at a taco stand, crossed the street where the black people were, chased them down the street and tried to go into the bar where they were regardless of the cops being right there. He could have killed a lot more people if he shot the people hanging out at the patio where he killed his sister, which was down the street from the cops.

    It doesn’t appear he ever fired at the cops even though they were shooting him as he ran after the group of black people running into the bar.

    • This is the kind of stuff/people he was into, according to his t-shirt.

      His parents sure raised a good one. No wonder he had to hide his guns while he planned his attacks.

    • I was tempted to click on the link but distrust the NY Times so severely that I decided not to. But interesting point you made!

    • They claim that the shooter killed 9, wounded 15, and was shot and killed by police within 32 seconds of his first shot. The dude must have been a Jerry Miculek understudy.

      Why were the police stationed on-scene with their ARs in advance?

      I was wondering if any of the dead were killed by friendly fire from the police. Think we’ll ever find out the truth?

      • @Mad Max I know I will sound like a conspiracy clown, but I believe some of these “mass shootings” are orchestrated by gun control groups. Mandalay Bay, Stoneman Douglas, and Sandy Hook, comes to mind, and this one in Dayton. There is more to the story, we are just not privy to any of it.

        • …with the cops shooting at you….

          He had to shoot and move and hit his moving targets while under fire. He was a kid, not a trained commando.

    • Not sure I want to publicize how flaky C-mags are.

      The Aurora theater shooter had a C-mag, too…. and ya, it jammed on him.

  5. Big circles. First one was the Filipino Insurrection. US Army had to replace their 38s with 45s to stop the drugged Moro’s. Second was FBI shoot out in Miami. Although armed with 357 revolvers, the agents could not feed the revolvers fast enough. The decision was made to transition to mag fed 10mm semi autos. The 10mm proved to be too powerful for the bureau, so, they reduced the power of the round to the 40 cal, which, the FBI still could not handle trading the 40 cal for the super dupper high tech 9mm, dragging the entire law enforcement community with them. 24 hits and the guy tried to get up twice. Does anyone want to debate the super dupper high tech 9mm against the 40, 357, 10mm or 45 tonight hahahaha! Full circle and the proof is in the pudding.

    • First off there never were any drug crazed Moro warriors. They chewed a leaf little more powerful than aspirin. There was never any proof through military records when researched several years ago by Jan Libourel that indicated any caliber pistol used in that war was better than the rest, zero. Rather prostittue gun writers after the war pushing for more sales of Colt 1911’s wrote bizarre articles claiming the .45 acp blew people off their feet , or spun them around like tops or made them disappear in a red puff of mist. Any basic physics class since the dawn of physics would have taught anyone this is not possible.

      In the Miami shootout the Cops as usual were ignorant of history. The heavier 124 grain bullet was proven superior in penetration as long ago as WWI and the Germans dropped the 115 grain pills for the heavier 124 grain bullets. Even so the 115 grain bullet that hit the bad guy went completely through his arm and then into the body cavity and stopped just short of his heart. The 115 grain bullet did exactly what it was originally designed to do and that was expand violently without over penetrating which often ends up killing innocent bystanders in a shoot out. This problem is a catch 22 situation , use a bullet that does not over penetrate or use one that does and risk bystander deaths.

      As far as the nut case not dying quickly there have been recorded documented cases that when people high on drugs were hit multiple times with police shotguns even those loaded with slugs and not buckshot that survived the shooting and remember a .12 gauge slug is roughly .70 caliber proving that bullet diameter does not kill and never has rather its bullet placement and penetration to the vitals. Caliber is and always has been totally irrelevant and this was also proven in Africa on big game in the very early 1900’s after the advent of the then new smokeless powders. Its not recent news it is just that people refuse to believe documented History and documented tests because of their own prejudices and beliefs in the articles of gun writers, most of whom never cracked an egg let alone shot an animal or human with a weapon.

      • Unfortunately modern evidence seems to be stacking up against 9mm. Countless events lately see police having to dump multiple mags of 9mm into violent attackers before they stay down. 9mm HPs may have been ok 10-20 years ago, but today’s modern super criminals are hoped up on drugs and wearing body armor. 9mm seems ill suited to the task and unfortunately we will all likely be selling our 9s in favor of 10mm. 10mm is the wave of the future and it’s time for us to accept this.,

      • Holy shit. You actually posted something 100% correct and insightful LOL 😀

        Another thing about the Moros: 45ACP fans excluded the anecdotes that service rifles in that theater also had a tendency to be less than effective against drugged up fighters.

        Id rather have a winchester 1897 in the Philippines than anything.

        • He cut and paste something off wikipedia. I doubt he understands every 3rd word. But that’s what soros pays him for.

        • What you left out was that the “service rifle” at that time was the .30-40 Krag. Not exactly a powerhouse, more of a weak sister. It just so happened that this was also at a time of changeover from the .45 Colt pistol round to the .38 short, itself not much more than a .32 ACP.
          So the perfect storm. At a time of changing to “modern”, smaller bore, higher velocity projectiles, the US encounters a group that will not be stopped by the most “modern” of theories, no matter how many written pages they fill up. Little wonder that the troops on Mindanao sent letters home asking for their Peacemakers and a 12 gauge. And yes, the .45 Colt didn’t have a great deal of success against the Moros either, but the 12 gauges did. Even though you might not find that out from the MILITARY records, which has a heavy vested interest in not admitting that the changeover was a bad idea. But they did anyway, by their actions. After Mindanao, the Krag and the .38 short were never much heard from again. But the .30-06 and the .45 ACP sure were….

      • There is also no telling how many rounds it took to stop him and how many got there after he was stopped. He tried to get back up? Well, had he been shot once then? Or ten times? Home many bullets got thru the body armor or hit elsewhere? How many reached something vital, like his damned head for instance?

        Saying it took 24 bullets to kill him is just over simplifying and wrong. It took a lot more than that, counting all the misses. It took a lot less than that, counting all the ones that hit were hitting counted for something.

        It took exactly as many as the coroner can say found the heart or the brain or the central nervous system and shut him off. All the rest was desperation, loud and messy and terrible and the normal state of affairs when a mad man is killing people and the good guys are pouring all they can into the scumbag to stop the horror.

        24 hits? that’s a number for the ignorant news media, kinda’ meaningless.

  6. I can’t speak for training everywhere but, based on that which I have received, I would not expect to survive as a mass shooter unless I threw down my gun and put my hands up before the police arrived.

  7. Well I for one have finally had ENOUGH! Something MUST be done. I propose a nationwide ban on cocaine. Anybody with me?

    • I’m with you. If banning cocaine saves one childs life isn’t it worth it? I mean really do it for the children!

    • I say ban everything. Oxygen, it was the first climate change gas produced by those pesky anaerobes. Dmmn them all to haell for polluting our sacred methane and carbon dioxide atmosphere and introducing that frail layer of ozone. Dihydrogen monoxide, ban that evil chemical which is associated with more human deaths and extinctions of precious animals than any other known chemical. Ban it all!
      Do it for the Children (at least for the children of those anaerobes)

  8. Cocaine – stimulant, would have amp him up; highly illegal; used by hundreds of thousands without a violent reaction
    Alcohol – legal, where are the cries for more prohibition?, arouses anger in some and relaxation in others
    Anti-depressant – common in these situations, but correlation does not equal causation; helps millions every day; must realize the mental health pros have typically encountered these murderers before their crimes and have tried to “fix” them with a prescription pad; easy target, but probably misplaced
    Face it, drugs can loosen inhibitions on behaviors which are premeditated – everyone knowns someone who willingly engaged in “wrong” behavior indulge in drugs first to up the courage… fights, conversations, stress, work, etc…
    It’s the PERSON who is at fault no matter what they’ve chosen to put in their system. We all face the consequences – fight with the spouse, DUI, missing work, and we don’t blink twice then.
    Make your choices, roll the dice, accept the chances.

    • ‘Alcohol – legal, where are the cries for more prohibition?’

      Didn’t we try that once already?

      Anyway, alcohol is not a stimulant or a depressant, but whatever mood you’re in, it tends to make you more so. If you’re ready to PAR-TAY!!! it will make you party harder, but if you’re down in the dumps it will make you more depressed. It also has a fairly common reaction when mixed with drugs to intensify the effects of the drugs. Mixing alcohol with cocaine and anti-depressants is a dangerous mix. But yes, Bayer is not culpable for inventing cocaine, nor is Budweiser culpable for selling beer. It’s the dumb-ass individual who mixes them together and starts shooting up the neighborhood who’s responsible.

      • That was kind of my point. Personal responsibility and other wicked out, crazy ideas.

        And, no, nothing MUST be done. Deal with the worst problems first, not the most emotional. More people killed in one year, not by but with people wielding, knives. Really, the good guys out number the bad guys. If people stopped outsourcing their safety to the gov’t, they would be many times safer.

        I hope your “Gov” is a troll, because it would be f*cking pathetic for someone who swore an oath to the Constitution to say such asinine things.

  9. Ok Libertarians. I’m waiting for you to say his drug use had nothing to do with his act of mass murder. We have already discussed just how accurate a shooter is under the influence of marijuana. US Army sniper Chris Kyle was murdered by a guy who stated in court he got high on pot before he shot Kyle.

    I remember reading in Reason Magazine that they were very upset that a murderer was trying to say SMOKING POT MADE HIM KILL. OR MADE IT EASIER TO KILL.

    What most people don’t know is that in many eastern societies it’s common for soldiers to get intoxicated before going into battle or assassinating a target. Some of them need “liquid courage”.

  10. Libertarians Liberals and the Left are terrified that the general population will learn the origin of the word “Assassin”.

    “A fanatical Muslim sect in the mountains of Lebanon at the time of the Crusades, under leadership of the “Old Man of the Mountains” (which translates Arabic shaik-al-jibal, name applied to Hasan ibu-al-Sabbah), they had a reputation for murdering opposing leaders after intoxicating themselves by eating hashish. Their reputation has spread in Western Europe 12c.-13c.”

    You can support legalizing all drugs if you choose. But don’t be a liar and say there is no harm done. You are a liar if you say there is no history of murder and mayhem associated with drug use. That includes lying by omission.

    • The most harm is done by the drug warriors and prohibitionists. In the USA today, the murder and mayhem comes from the drugs being outlawed. Sadly, way too much of the violence comes from law enforcement. Thanks to the drug war, we have lost most of our Bill of Rights.

      • I’ve always been a teetotaler myself, well coffee and tea, but my position is that while recreational use of drugs and alcohol includes definite increased risks to both the users of these substances as well as for society, that the blanket criminalization of these substances creates even greater risks than these for a free society and in practice seems to lead to a whole other set of problems without really solving the problem that the law was intended to address in the first place.

        In other words, both Prohibition and the War on Drugs were and are policies that utterly failed to stop the use of either booze or drugs and had the unintended consequence, or in the case of the Drug War likely an intended consequence, of making the banned substance more financially profitable, which in turn lead to the creation of an entire organized and unorganized criminal subculture based upon the illicit production of the banned substance which it can be argued has created even more problems for society than had the state not created policies totally restricting the use of said substances and therefore increasing their value on the Black Market.

        Of course, the War On Drugs significantly increased the coercive powers of the state and their ability to police civil society. It has also facilitated the creation of entire categories of industries and employment opportunities both in the formal legal category of policing drugs and in the informal illegal category of producing, distributing, and laundering the profits from the illegal sales of drugs. Stockbrokers must look upon the War on Drugs with awe and envy for the profit margins that it has affected.

        • ty
          “Stockbrokers must look upon the War on Drugs with awe and envy for the profit margins that it has affected.”

          You do know that criminals have murdered stockbrokers when their investments didn’t work out so well?

      • chris mallory
        You are an example of why Libertarians Liberals and the Left are totally clueless about the human nature of the drug business. White pot users in the 1970 said “if we can just make pot legal, there will be no need for black people to have guns”.

        They wanted to “make the hood safe for democracy”.

        The south of the border drug cartels will continue to murder each other over who controls the distribution and sale of drugs. Libertarians Liberals and the Left are using Projection onto the drug cartels. Believing that if the stuff was made legal that the violence would disappear.

        The three L’s simply don’t understand the concept of evil. “free to Choose” is the motto of Libertarianism. The use REASON.

        Well the drug cartels CHOSE MURDER instead of cooperation with others. They use EMOTIONALISM.

  11. Just one question, the media said, “legally acquired firearm(s)” did no one look at whether question 11 e (for one) was truthfully answered. Legally acquired firearm, I think not!


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