By Cliff Heseltine
There is plenty of controversy among “gun guys” regarding the best caliber for a pistol. Even before gun guru Jeff Cooper put in his .45 cents, arguments over “big, slow and heavy” versus “small, fast and accurate” raged at the drop of a hat. Getting a heated discussion going on this topic is easier than trolling a liberal talk radio show (if you can find one) and suggesting that women should be encouraged to lean pro-life and be stay-at-home moms. But that is not what this post is about . . .
There’s another controversy among The People of the Gun that can almost as quickly devolve into acrimonious debate that needs to be discussed since the gun community is hardly homogenous (no, that doesn’t mean “queer” for those of you in Rio Linda). As in any society, skills, interests and abilities vary widely.
At one end of this group you’ll find those magnificent individuals and marvelous physical specimens that make up the military’s Special Forces. They have physical endurance, intelligence, speed, and amazing skills with weapons and tactics. I refer to these top-tier individuals as .45s.
But every bell curve has a segment on the other end as well, and those people have as much right as anyone else to exercise their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms in order to defend themselves, their families and their property. They may be, in almost every way, the exact opposite of Special Forces types. These are the 9mms. Obviously there’s also a huge segment of the POTG who fill out the rest of the curve between the two tail sections.
The question I’m posing here is why so many people who lean towards .45 end seem to feel that every gun owner is obligated to invest the same time, effort, expense and obsessive view towards high-speed/low-drag training as they do. It should be clear – especially amongst the elites – that if everyone could do what they can, then no one would ever ring the bell at BUD/S. Maybe these are the same high school jocks who had only contempt for their classmates who weren’t athletically gifted enough or had no interest in sports.
Every society is made up of people with all sorts of interests and varying levels of physical ability. Arnold Schwartzenegger was once asked in an interview by a non-bodybuilder type how long it would take him to train up to Arnold’s level. The former governator looked him up and down and said, “Two generations, with the right parents.”
So why can’t people who like to train hard with their weapons, go to shooting “fantasy camps” and practice running and gunning like commandos in multiple attacker scenarios accept that there are huge numbers of 9mms out here in the real world? People who not only can’t afford that level of training, but don’t have the interest or ability even if time and finances weren’t an issue?
Should my 87-year-old mother with a pacemaker not have access to my Smith J-frame for defense when I’m not home just because she won’t budget $1,000 from her Social Security income to take a class at Thunder Ranch? Should a businessman working long hours to make ends meet not carry a pistol when he mans the cash register or makes bank deposits just because he can’t find the time or funds to take classes at Gunsite? Should an inner-city family not keep a shotgun in the closet for emergencies just because their breadwinner is a mousy little guy doing tax accounting for minimum wage?
We need some perspective here. People will fill out the bell curve from both extremes to various degrees. But there will be a greater number approaching the 9mm end of the curve where people will get as much relevant training as they can tolerate or afford. They’ll train to the extent they feel it’s appropriate to their situation, budget and interests.
At the 9mm end, many people are only interested in learning about proper weapon choices, safe handling and operation, suitable concealed carry options, and, to a very great extent the bottom line question: In the unlikely event that I’m have to use deadly force, do I have an adequate tool and can I put it to use? More than that is, in their minds, excessively intrusive into their lifestyle and finances. Why spend ten times as much on the training class as you’re likely to lose to the punk who’s trying to mug you? Who is robbing whom?
There must be a reasonable middle ground. I respect and admire SEALS and all the other highly trained individuals who protect us. I respect athletes, both professional and “weekend warriors”, who have the skills, interest and ability to pursue a sport they enjoy. Many of us, however, aren’t able to pursue either combat-style training or sports at more than a very superficial level. We practice to be a good shot with our chosen weapon(s) and to know how and when to should shoot. All other contingencies are approached intellectually, because running around, play-acting scenarios and rolling in the dirt just aren’t everybody’s thing. Should those people be held in contempt for that attitude?
Can we tone down the rhetoric about MMA-style training and CQB and weapon retention techniques that are only appropriate for the military and police (and that portion of the “civilian” POTG that have the physical ability to benefit from it)? Yes, these things should be – must be discussed. After all, this is The Truth About Guns. But the real truth about guns is that we all have a natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms that applies regardless of level of training or physical ability.
While we should fully support and encourage every gun owner to get as much quality training as they can afford, statistically the majority of confrontations occur at close range (under seven meters) and end with the display of the firearm — not with gunfire. Within seven meters, even if shots are fired, most people with any skill at all can hit a man-sized target once or twice out of six or ten shots. Even groups of attackers, faced with an armed victim and shots fired, are more likely to disperse post haste than risk being shot.
Every situation is different, of course, but “God made man, Samuel Colt made them equal.” For the vast majority of people the pistol replaces the physical ability to fight. That being the case, this is the level of confrontation they should be trained for, not helicopter insertion into bin Ladin’s compound or weapon retention when bum-rushed by a half-dozen gangster thugs.
Many of you may feel like pushing the extremes of training. That’s fine if you take enjoyment from that. Just remember that Chris Kyle, on a shooting range and with guns and ammunition available, was still murdered by someone who had no SEAL training and much less combat experience. I also suspect many a bad guy would pee his pants at the site of even a petite woman pulling a pistol from her garter or one hanging from her bra.
So please, go ahead and train to your heart’s content. And if by some chance we find ourselves side-by-side facing a high-risk scenario, I’ll be very glad you’re there and trained. And I’ll do my best to provide useful assistance. But in the meantime, don’t look down your nose at the rest of us who have other interests in life than high-end firearms and combat training.
ARFCOM and Gabe Suarez say YES!! 😀
Does Every Gun Owner Have to Train Like a SEAL?
Yes, because if you can’t balance a beach ball on your nose while swallowing a whole fish head first, you ain’t sh1t.
Good one..! Go Army – if ya can’t truck it ruck it
But…but…how am I supposed to tactically operate as hard as I can if I don’t?
what operations platform are you tactically driving while you operate bro?
HK556. HK are the best in all the Medal of Duty games I play.
I got eye whiplash reading this thread. Now I’ll be seeing out my ears for the rest of the day. Thanks guys.
Broseph… do you even Operate?
Bro, I operate while I’m operating operationally
Nice Rush Limbaugh reference.
Just having the mindset to realize you may need a firearm is enough to start.. hell, the SEALS never quit training, so who is to say what is too much? But just recognizing you may need it is +infinity over not recognizing it, everything else is icing.
No. The more you have the better your chances are. We all don’t need to be a race car driver, well you get it. My house is trained to know when and where to shoot, most of all will shoot.
Thank you, dude. That so needed to be said.
Have there been court rulings in America similar to the Basil Parasiris case?
http://www.pierrelemieux.org/artparasiris.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil_Parasiris
At age 21, with my pregnant wife, I drew from concealment and immediately stopped the threats coming from a group of thugs all larger than me. One glimpse of that .45 business end cleared up their confusion. Don’t try telling me that training is a must in order to protect ourselves and family. Yes, I train now, but protection comes first. Flashing a red gun would not have protected us! Train WITH your gun, not BEFORE it.
Appreciate this story.
Currently I occupy one of the lower socioeconomic tiers in this society (read as: I’m both young and poor).
I’m really tired of going to the only decent (read as: I can pocket my revolver brass without getting yelled at and I don’t worry about lead poisoning) “pay-to-play” local indoor range ($30 for an hour on the pistol range – that’s 1/3 of a days’ labor to you upper-middle class folks out there, not including ammo) to confirm my and my firearms’ accuracy under as controlled conditions as possible and getting seriously nasty looks like I’m some damn criminal due to being young and having metal bits stuck in my face ’cause I think body art is neat. Freedom of expression is a thing, right?
These looks almost always come from the guys with $4k custom 1911s while I pop the few rounds that I can actually afford to send downrange with my not-gently used, 30+ year old .357 magnum. Are they just upset ’cause mine is louder and I don’t need a blue pill to make it work right?
If you can afford the good stuff and you want to drop the coin, by all means, do. But like Dan said – please, PLEASE don’t look down your nose at someone who can’t/or doesn’t.
It just makes it that much less likely that we POTG will be able to present a genuinely unanimous front on the important issues of the day.
Just because you think they look good doesn’t mean I have to think they look good.
You wouldn’t put metal bits in your face if you didn’t want other people to notice them, so don’t get mad when they look.
Gold Star for you for trying. If you were in Middle Tennessee I would pay the range fees and ammo for you to get some more practice. Hang in there. I remember my poor days of having enough money to eat for a week or make the truck payment but not both. Owning, let alone shooting a gun was a dream.
@Michael B.
I’m not mad when they/you look – you’re at least partially right about why (there’s a hell of a lot of people on this Earth and sticking out a bit isn’t something I consider a bad thing) – it’s the resulting expression and up-angle on the face/nasal passages and the subsequent walk to the range officer to point me out that I’m griping about.
@Bill
Honestly, at this point I’m considering it – but that doesn’t mean I have to like it. Being able to express myself somewhat without a conversation about it is valuable to me.
*sigh*, and the economy not sucking here as much as everywhere else the past few years just means there’s a buttload (read as: 20% population growth projections for the next ten years, practically all of them from the Coasts – or Texas, because we don’t like pollution – er – highly profitable heavy industry – as much here) of people moving here that I’m now in competition with for “jobs that don’t suck” in the place that I love.
@A-Rod
Appreciate the offer, and doubly appreciate the “what seasoning should I use on my ramen noodles tonight to shake things up a bit?” solidarity.
Hey hey hey there American Spirit… don’t hate on the blue pill. It works great!!!! You too one day will learn.
Hell, the blue pill benefits all men. Young and old. Your girl will love it.
While any training (I prefer to call it practice, I’m too lazy to “train”) is better than absolutely none, ultimately we’re talking apples to oranges. When comparing even training centers like Thunder Ranch and Asymmetric Solutions to BUDS the scale would be closer to .9mm to .45.
I haven’t taken those courses, and I’m sure they are very good, but special operations training is a WHOLE lot more than just some CQB work. Those guys get the sh1t beat out of them and come back for more….it takes a special mindset to not ring a bell. I’m betting most civilians (myself included) would pack up after the first 2 days without sleep….
I might make all of 36 hours, no chance in hell would I go through two of days of no sleep without chemical stimulants. I did when I was MUCH younger, and before it was over I was hallucinating and not 100% sure what was real anymore.
My personal best is 54 hours…..bachelor project final report deadline. But I was sitting in a comfortable chair with obscene amounts of caffeine on hand. I wasn’t running 50 km, going for a swim, hauling big ass logs through the surf, marching some more…..
What “caliber” is drilling the wife and kids in HD tactics using Airsoft guns considered?
For non EMT types, is there any benefit in using this product over a tourniquet on an extremity wound? If we’re talking only about junctional wounds, then it makes more sense. If it’s a torso/abdominal wound, then I would imagine it difficult to keep the product from just dispersing into the chest cavity.
Not that I think it looks bad, just trying to figure out where this falls in the tool set.
I have had mine for a month or so and I really like it. I have very large hands and this may be the most comfortable gun I have ever held ( I can even use the decocker one handed). I have noticed that it doesn’t like really cheap ammo. I was using some cheapo ppu and had a similar issue. I do not know if it is due to the really thin cartridge walls they use or the heavy spring in the gun. I have switched to shooting white box win and have had no issues at all.
I bought the titanium color and it looks great.
While I will pay for a training class on occasion its mostly for the enjoyment of the shooting
GOOD. If you don’t knock, expect to be shot. They’re cops, not jury or executioner.
Offer to meet with the (libtard bastard) I mean gentleman. Tell him you are concerned about your daughter & the entire school. Tell him you have considerable expertise that might prevent a disaster. Make it clear that if he ignores your help & something happens it will not look good for him or his career./// You keep this roudy bunch of misfits in line, how hard could it be? Randy
I agree wholeheartedly. Do the best you can with what you have. If all you can afford is a little range time every other weekend, so be it. While I suggest every shooter have at least some training, you don’t need to be Mr. Super Cool Mall Ninja.
I think it’s the same mentality that the athletic people have of the non athletes…. I can, why can’t you? I do, why don’t you? Some people just push the edge of the extreme, just like in other disciplines. The majority of sane people (the middle of the curve) realises that even a little bit is better than nothing. More is better than a little. To paraphrase a speech I heard from Martin Luther King Jr., “If you can’t be a tree on the mountaintop, be a scrub in the valley, but be the BEST little scrub you can.”
At least some training can go a long way–I’m not talking tactical HS/LD training but basic stuff like how to shoot accurately can help a lot of people. I’d rather have a 500 dollar gun + a 150 dollar training course that was worth it, than a 650 dollar gun and no instruction.
But ffs ragging on people for not going to Gunsite or Thunder Ranch and spending the money for travel and training and gobs of ammo is stupid. Not everyone can afford that without cutting into stuff that’s a higher priority.
This post reminds me of a summer training in the USMC Infantry Reserve Golf 2/24 Madison, WI unit. I believe it was the summer of 1997 in Coronado, CA.
Our CO wanted us to get a feel for the Navy Seal obstacle course. In order to see if it would be a good training opportunity, he selected a few Marines throughout the physical fitness spectrum in our company. The course, for those who are familiar with it, does not contain safety equipment (at least, it didn’t back then – there could be a Starbuck there for all I know). I ran through the course 2 1/4 times before one of the less physically fit individuals behind me fell off an obstacle and injured his leg. I remember feeling like a badass, and seriously considered trying out for SEAL BUDS training.
A few days later, we got ready for the amphibious assault course. We all packed our waterproofed combat gear, helmets, weapons, and blanks and headed into Mike boats. As a Squadleader, I had a good idea what the whole company was trying to accomplish and drill for. I was positioned behind our platoon commander, a Captain A., who was a hardass. The idea was for the boats to drop us into 3-4′ deep water, wade to shore, and set up assault positions.
As we loaded up onto the Mike boat, one of the staff NCOs called us “pussies” because we were reservists. We apparently didn’t know anything about the fleet or the “real” Marine Corps. I told my squad not to worry about it, and to just execute the plan as well as possible. I stood behind Captain A., and let him know that our squad was ready to go. We motored out in as a company in several Mike boats. As we were about 1/2 mile from the shore, the boat Captain dropped the ramp and signaled the start of the assault.
Captain A. waved his arm, leapt off the ramp, and dropped into the brink. I yelled “Hold On!” and tried to block the ramp, but was pushed forward by a sea of Marines. The water was cold and salty, and I fell a good long ways. My combat boots, helmet, pack, and rifle made it very difficult to reach the surface. After I fought my way back up, I noticed Marines all around me struggling to stay afloat. I looked for someone to help, but could barely stay afloat myself. I looked for the Mike boat, but it had turned around and was already motoring away.
I felt a bit of panic at the realization that I may drown. I had no idea how deep the water beneath me was. I went under several times, and fought my way back to the surface. For the first time in my life, I considered dropping a firearm where I might not ever be able to retrieve it. One of the times above the surface, I yelled to the other Marines to drop their guns if they felt like they were drowning. I made it to the shore some time later, and helped other Marines out of the water. Some of the guys had dropped their M249’s and M240’s because they were sinking. It was a mess.
Everyone was accounted for, but we had a number of weapons which were dropped into the ocean. Seal Team 6 got their dive gear and retrieved all of the weapons which had been dropped over the next several hours. The boat captain was demoted.
Even as a 22 year old Marine in the best shape of my life, I had respect for warriors that operated at a whole different level than what I could manage.
ROFLMFAO…
think of it as your “tackling fuel”. . . . . while I may not be a SEAL, frankly, the only motivation I have for getting up at 5 am every morning to work out is hoping I don’t have coronary on the street trying to protect myself from the locals who didn’t know how to ask me more politely for my hard earned cash.
Consult first with the President of your nearest chapter of ASIS International. http://www.asisonline.org
This is THE professional society for Physical Security professionals, and numbers local Chiefs of Police and security vendors among the membership. Before I retired I was a member for decades.
The local chapters are always on the lookout for community projects to help with; this would fit perfectly. You’ll get a ton of free professional advice and help just for the asking. And school security was on their agenda long before it was a “thing.”
I’ve since retired from the military years ago and went shooting the other day at the range. I attended many shooting programs and at one time seriously considered competing in 3-gun. Now I’m just a private civilian who chooses to legally carry. Part of making that choice is to practice shooting (not just marksmanship) as it is a perishable skill. The ability to draw, make your weapon ready, and accurately engage your target significantly degrades over time. Quickly. Not having been to the range in several months, I was surprised on how rusty I had become.
I believe everyone should try to get some sort of professional training. But probably more important is to regularly practice. Get a few dummy rounds and practice drawing your gun, taking the safety off and pulling the trigger. If you have a laser you can watch for the dot jumping around. Dry firing doesn’t cost anything. Try practicing at least monthly in different cloths as the seasons change and find out what gets caught where with different outfits. Try practicing drawing in the car (in the garage would probably be best as not to alarm your neighbors). Try practicing drawing while eating at the dinner table, of course probably not during a family meal. Try practicing drawing from the couch watching TV. Time yourself getting into your lockbox as fast as you can, pulling out your gun/flashlight and pulling the trigger once (with a dummy round) at an imaginary target. There are plenty of tactics videos on YouTube to watch and do in the privacy of your home with practice dummy rounds. All of it is free, unless of course you screw up and leave a live round in your Glock and put a hole in your big screen TV.
You may surprise yourself on how awkward you feel at first. You may be surprised on how it is almost impossible to get your gun on your hip out with your seatbelt on. You may discover that your lockbox, takes 10 minutes to get into especially if you drop the key down the heat vent or in the pile of shoes in the closet.
Repetition is key. Go slow and make it smooth. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast. The only way you won’t screw it up when the pressure is really on (when someone is trying to kick in your front door)… when your ability for fine motor movement is totally gone…. is muscle memory. And the only way to get that muscle memory developed, so when you reach for that key, it easily/smoothly/quickly unlocks your lockbox so you can get to your gun without thinking about it…. is a lot of practice.
We may not be able to afford to get to the range or attend professional classes, or find ammo… but we can dry fire/use dummy rounds for free. Your lockbox key should be so worn that it is like butter when you stick it in the lock.
My .40 cents
I haven’t been to a self defense class since I was 8yrs old taking Tae Kwon Do. I haven’t attended a firearm based class save the obligatory conceal carry. Would I if I had the money? I sure would.
In my opinion, I think it is important to learn from a professional, be it hand to hand and/or firearm based self-defense; however I wouldn’t push it on anyone, beyond giving them the following opinion:
-Do you absolutely need it? No. People have survived life and death encounters with very few hours on the range or mat at all.
-Will it improve your odds? Maybe. It seems that chance always has a hand in these encounters, good or bad.
– Will it give you more confidence in your abilities? Most likely. You will have someone scrutinizing your technical flaws and try to help you fix them. They will be attempting to instill a fighting mindset into you that some people just don’t have. Perhaps making you aware of different and better strategies.
Most likely after a good class, you will be better armed with the mindset, tactics, and techniques that may increase your chances to survive such an encounter. Of course, there is always that chance that you will have a huge disadvantage and not survive no matter how well trained you are.
I will say that anything beyond a decent core Handgun class or two and maybe some core hand-to-hand self defense classes; you are delving into the mall-ninja-fantasy area.
Celox has something similar to this, Celox-A, except it “injects” purely hemostatic agent granules.
RF had something to do with this? RF had everything to do with this.
I don’t know which one would kill me faster — walking naked through the south side of Chicago at 3 am dropping fifties from my ass, or training like a SEAL.
The 2009 Homeschool Progress Report found “homeschoolers scored 34–39 percentile points higher than the norm on standardized achievement tests. The homeschool national average ranged from the 84th percentile for Language, Math, and Social Studies to the 89th percentile for Reading.”
http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/ray2009/2009_Ray_StudyFINAL.pdfsource:
From Homeschooling Grows Up:
Homeschool graduates are active and involved in their communities. Seventy-one percent participate in an ongoing community service activity (e.g., coaching a sports team, volunteering at a school, or working with a church or neighborhood association), compared to 37% of U.S. adults of similar ages (Table 2). Eighty-eight percent of the homeschool graduates surveyed were members of an organization (e.g., such as a community group church or synagogue, union, homeschool group, or professional organization), compared to 50% of U.S. adults.
Only 4.2% of the homeschool graduates surveyed consider politics and government too complicated to understand, compared to 35% of U.S. adults(Table 2). This may account for why homeschool graduates work for candidates, contribute to campaigns, and vote in much higher percentages than the general population of the United States (Figures 2 through 7). For example, 76% of homeschool graduates surveyed between the ages of 18–24 voted within the last five years, compared to only 29% of the relevant U.S. population (Figure 7). The numbers of homeschool graduates who vote are even greater in the older age brackets, with voting levels not falling below 95%, compared to a high of 53% for the corresponding U.S. populace. Interestingly, the three participants in the age-55–69 category were also more civically active than their peers nationwide (but the sample size was so small that this category was/is not included in the figures).
source: http://www.hslda.org/research/ray2003/HomeschoolingGrowsUp.pdf
These studies speak for themselves better than I could ever hope to do. You would your daughter a great favor if you pulled her out and homeschooled her. Under Texas law it is very easy to pull her out and homeschool her.
Like many others have already said, if you take the matter of the poor security up with the school officials you and/or your daughter are in for a world of hurt.
The school
Mothers got tired of demanding action.
I don;t have knowledge per se, but $20 says someone submits a photoshop of Shannon Watts . . . . just saying
Forget high speed low drag.
How about high fitness low cholesterol. The most likely way we’re all going to check out won’t involve a bullet, but a blood clot in the wrong artery.An able person with 10,000 rounds of practice in the last month but no gym membership is prepping for the wrong fight.
So… does this contest require additional judges?
We’re not necessarily looking for lingerie shots here. Just tasteful, hopefully creative shots of women with their guns.
Ask a cop and they’ll tell you that they get off on kicking down doors. It’s a rush and the best part of their job as they see it.
It depends. If you are 18 to 55 with no disabilities, an armed citizenry is good but a trained one is better. You put LE in the category with SEALS. I don’t think so. Yesterday a DeKalb Co. police officer was shot accidentally by another cop. The cops I see at the range aren’t impressive marksmen. The ones that train others are very proficient but the average LEO…not so much.
James Yeager’s name was brought up earlier as an example of the “operator” type this article was referring to. He seems to be the most criticized firearms trainer on the internet. The two day pistol course is half the price of similar 8 hour “gun fighting” classes and though he recommends physical fitness, it is not a prerequisite. I don’t know if he should be called a .45 when he strongly recommends 9mm.
I think that you should train however you can. Do what you think you need. It will help you if the time comes for your skill set to be utilized. Do we have to be SEALs? Hell no, but if you would feel that would help you and you would feel more comfortable as one of the aforementioned “.45s” then go for it. Make it a hobby, make it enjoyable for you. The writer here acts like it’s a boon to do so. That’s the wrong way of looking at it. Getting in shape, learning martial arts, professional technique, etc. should be an enjoyable experience for you that may branch over and help you in ways you never considered. Or you could sit in your lazy chair eating chips, watching reruns of NYPD Blue, and say, “Woe is me, I don’t wanna move my butt and do basic calisthenics, I guess I’ll just not do anything and see what happens.” Your choice.
People don’t need to go overboard on their training but owning a firearm is like any other freedom, it comes with responsibility not just to yourself but to those around you and you should get the training associated with your needs. If you have a concealed carry permit and you want to carry concealed then you should be trained how to do it safely and effectively. If your purpose is to have a gun only in the house in the event of a home invasion then you should be trained in the ins and outs of that.
Why would an Ohio resident get a FL permit? simple, when traveling, more states honor the Fl permit than the Ohio permit. As a Holder of both, it was far easier to get the permit in Ohio, and cheaper. Total turn around time , less than 1 month. In Fl there currently is a 90 working day backlog.
Please keep in mind that in spite of all the HSLD training and equipment you have, when the time comes to get your ticket punched, you will have no choice but to check out of this life. Whether you want to or not. And not one minute sooner.
This is true. We’re all forgetting our most potent weapon – our tongue (no, not like that!). “A soft word turneth away wrath” or something like that. The ability to defuse escalating conflict BEFORE it erupts into gunfire is crucial to survival. Not many people WANT to take another human life. Those who do have problems.
Unless you’re invading another country (Ooh America, I’m talking to you!), the chances of encountering hostile armed resistance is slight. Even criminals occasionally turn away when faced by an armed opponent.
The question then is: are you in a good position? A moving target is much harder to hit. A good shotgun (and they’re ALL good) is more devastating than any other weapon (source: US Army report after German WWI complaints about shotguns in the trenches), so this is good to have. Plenty of ammo, aim at targets, and there ya go. Sounds easy, don’t it?
Oh, you don’t mean Playstation? In reality I call the cops and pray.
When the law is an ass, it is the peoples’ duty to rebel. Good to see law enforcement on board with this.
…submitting photo for DiFi’s CCW…
I love it when somebody pulls the mask away – if only briefly. This will surprise few here at TTAG, but it’s nice to to know some mayors took MAIG’s campaign funds and turned away.
Because who deserves an icepick in the back more than MAIG? Tell me, WHO?
The six fingered man?
My name is Free Man, you killed my civil liberties, prepare to die.
I want that cloak that fezzick wore
I love that this story is only a few lines away from the one making fun of the idea that everyone can\should learn how to shoot like a seal.
Same sort of deal as MADD. At one time, they used to be against drunk driving.
Now their agenda seems to be prohibition… again.
I own two Golden Boys and find them to be superb rifles without flaw. I also own an Umberti Win 73/44-40 and it is fine looking rifle that functions flawlessly. I find the 73 to also be a bargin for $1300, the big issue is the 73 is a foreign reproduction and the Henry’s are all USA. The Henry 1860 also represents a very critical point in both politics and manufacturing of guns. Our history should be crowned royal with such presentations as the Henry 1860 as often as an American manufacture can find the where-with-all to get it done. So, Mr. Henry folks, good job.
Those wanting to whipper about the hot barrel, well………………..that’s the way the original wasbuilt. I’m sure you could ask Henry to send you an old sock for your hand if that is your only concern. It wouldn’t be an 1860 if Henry stuck a broom stick on the forearm for you,…….would it?
On the price, I’ve always believed you pretty much get what you pay for. Now, check out the warranty on an Umberti and deal with sending something back to Italy and see how you like that. The Henry’s I have came with an American and an American company standing behind them.
One more thing, the price often seperates the boys from the girls on lots of stuff, in my view there in is the logic telling us why we don’t all own yachts. Some of us just have to be happy with a Pero swamp boat. Let me hasten to say I once owned a Pero. I’ll order my New Henry 1860 at $2300 and figure I got a bargin.
After reading the list of MAIG mayors in California, the vast majority of whom were in LA and Bay Area communities, I suspect that few if any will drop their memberships, since this is their goal as well. Right now they are focusing on banning guns stores, banning internet sales of ammo by requiring a permit and a face to face sale, and banning hollow point bullets. San Francisco enacted an ordinance that, shades of Heller, required handguns to be locked up and unloaded unless in the immediate possession of an authorized person–and the federal trail court judge found that to be constitutional. But for state pre-emption on sales, they would go after the guns too.
MAG.
MAIG want’s to confiscate all firearms? You don’t say!
Next you’ll tell me that MADD doesn’t give a whit about drunk driving and that they are really a prohibitionist group in disguise!
Sorry about the sarcasm – it’s been a long week.
I guess I’m a 9mm+P guy. I’m not sure where that puts me in this scheme of things.
Just my 2 cents worth, I think there is a danger in over training for those of us whom are at low risk of ever needing such training. If you enjoy it and can keep your mind in balance that’s fine. But I think there can be a fine line between ‘situational awareness’ and paranoia. We can’t be too rash in pulling out our weapons or Johnny Doughnut will come and put us in the clink.
See Mary B. my gun is very clean. Oh, hi Mr. B ummm, just talking to your daughter about the weather.
I’ve met Navy Seals and they don’t impress me. They are Marines basically. As far as caliber goes anyone who thinks a .22 is too passy is an idiot.
Diane Feinstein’s first boyfriend breaks up with her saying “sleeping with this assault rifle would be more exciting than sex with you”. And now you know why she hates them.
Wrong analogy. Special Forces train for special missions. If they tried to stop an average trained mechanized unit they wouldn’t even be a speed bump.
Train for your mission which is to defend your home and your person/family. You don’t need ninja training for that. Learn how to spot trouble before it spots you when you are outside and have a good early warning system and a defense plan at home. If there is any model to follow it is Michael Westen and not COL Mike Kirby. (Bonus points for movie reference.)
Awww Bobbie-Sue quit lookin’ at the new recruits in our swimmin’ hole now.
The walking dead gets crazier every season
Olive Oyl before she discovered sailors.
You where in the navy for a short stint weren’t you?
Thank You All for your great stories,
y’all have me greatly interested; Please,
let’s all go shootin’;
No B.S.’n – Jist Shootin’
Let’s all go shootin,
and gunnin’ up for them targets.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liA4Kfj3I48
The vast majority of the people who think they are enlightened are actually indoctrinated.
Come on , Pelosi, you know you want it!
Tea For The Tillerman – GREAT album.
You have to shoot them in the head. Now watch while I demonstrate….
She said it was going to be her or the rifle.. That was an easy choice.
Okay Norma Jean, just aim for the Kaiser’s testicles….
Actually, pouring the milk last exposes it to higher temperatures better, as only a little at a time goes into liquid that is already hot, but pouring tea last means the first of it only warms the milk a little. Also, pouring the tea after the milk and sugar mixes it better even before stirring, because of the greater volume, and it also allows you to judge better how much milk is in the cup by how high it gets in the cup (you can’t go by colour when pouring the milk last, as it won’t mix properly until you stir it, by which time you might already have overshot – whereas pouring the tea last lets you see before you overshoot).
However, I have found that it is better to measure in powdered milk last, as if it is there before the tea it tends to form lumps that are hard to stir in.
To the camera holder:
HE says-“Hell-they strangers on MY property with no invite from me.”
SHE says-“Yep, n they got UUUGLY nekkid legs.”
I like you guys better than AR too. If only you could charge money and make me feel guilty for not giving more.
I like ’em both, but TTAG’s honesty and interactive format put them well over the top.
Aww come on honey! I’ll give you this here rifle if you will show me more of your black socks.
“Guns make killing way too easy.” You wouldn’t believe how many people you can run over with a SUV in the fashion district of Downtown LA. Especially on Saturdays.
I think next time I go to pick up a kid at school I’ll carry an empty holster…leave the gun at home but just carry the holster to mess with them. Nothing illegal about a piece of plastic…
It would be interesting to see an article about opening a gun range. I know that RF looked into before. What is the cost, what equipment does one need, what sort of insurance, etc? It might help those who are toying with the idea.
So his creds are extremely thin, but it will look good to have him as a puppet. Got it.
Stuff that anyone can learn from some who is not trying to cash in on what title they have been bestowed. There’s no magic in shooting like a SEAL, just the ability to shoot and the practice to understand the process…
OK, so this is why I got an email from Sig. Didn’t open it, figured it was just some more junk mail.
I cayn’t be looking at this stuff first thing in the day. I just cayn’t.
I like the pink shirt lady.
Do you remember a number of years ago when Red Lobster announced “all you can eat crab legs.”
The CEO was fired after that incident.
“Once upon a time the men of England were some of the most adventurous and daring on the globe. Not so much anymore, it seems.”
It appears that the deaths of so many young British men in WWI and WWII effectively removed the warrior gene from their population. Unfortunately, it is now being supplied by the large numbers of young Muslim males moving into the island. Goodbye, Britain.
Is this actually going to be a contest or are you guys just going to award the holsters to the three least clothed entries?
Several jumped out at me…
“That looks cool! Let me shoot it!!” No. You may express interest, even effusively, but then wait patiently for the other person to offer you the opportunity to shoot it. If they do not, be gracious.
“Oh, that’s crap. I voted for Obama twice and he would never take away anyone’s guns.”
“Can I borrow some ammo?”
“Don’t you have any of those Muslim targets?”
“Hearing protection is for pussies.”
“Don’t or I’ll shoot you.”
“The gun just went off!”
“Watch this… I’ve been practicing.”
‘I need to practice at the 500 yard range, because I can never get within 100 yards of the President.’
I’m guessing the NSA is particularly interested in gun range talk.
As everyone here obviously has access to a computer, I’d like to recommend that all NRA members, new and old, change their subscriptions to the digital version. Saves printing and mailing costs, and never a mangled copy. You will also have access to 3-4 years of back-issues.
More please. I will be seeking out more information from Mr McKee.
Hickock45……I compared that $1600 Kriss video to the one he made with a $400 Keltec Sub2k and something tells me he’d grab the Keltec if his choice was down to those two and he had to be sure that it went bang when he pulled the switch.
If Mexicans can begin to see the vital worth of guns in the hands of honest villagers, it might provide an example to those immigrating to the US. Southwest Mexico is providing exactly the context needed to understand how the value of a living and uncorrupted 2nd amendment arises repeatedly. I think for many Americans it is difficult to imagine corruption sliding into violence, only to be tamed by the “little people.” A living lesson is in front of our eyes.
How about shooting from the hip? Seals train that massive fire gives them the ability to ex-filtrate.
To get out of a situation I’m not sure the bystanders can afford that level of punishment. Are you?
So there are training limits too. They are different for everyone. Personally I believe you must do what you envision what you are faced with. Depending on situation and your ability, I may, draw or not draw, shoot or not shoot, evade at the first opportunity, etc.
So in answer to the question, I do not believe that the seal level of training is required or even necessary. I’m not putting myself in positions where SEALS find themselves.
And like always, I either live or die based on the decisions I make. (p.s. So do you.)
In reference to the authors last para. Good on you bro! I’ll do the same for you.