By Parson Turnbull

There’s been a lot of discussion among members of the Armed Intelligentsia lately about how Connecticut’s finest might proceed if they decide to confiscate unregistered guns from the state’s 100,000 or more newly-minted felons. The level of concern is evidenced by daily long comment threads, speculative posts by people who are not members of law enforcement, and even a couple of contributed opinions from the LEO community. The rational consensus seems to be that if the gun-grab order were given, cops would pinch a registration scofflaw at the grocery store, at work, on the road…anyplace other than his or her home where a Ruby Ridge-style tragedy might ensue. Here I propose the alternative–that LEOs might not in fact be that rational if and when the time comes . . .

You may have read or at least heard about Malcolm Gladwell’s lookback at Waco in the New Yorker last week. It’s part book review (siege survivor Clive Doyle’s memoir has just been published), part interview and part history. Gladwell reprises what most people now know–that the Branch Davidians weren’t violent and almost certainly weren’t involved in the illegal gun trade or any other criminal enterprise. He also provides a brief and interesting history of the group, which was founded some 80 years before David Koresh came along.

Gladwell’s main theme, though, is the thought process and mentality of the law enforcement officials toward the end of the two-month siege. And that should give us all pause.

The F.B.I., to justify its decision to bring about a sudden and violent end to the siege, believed that the Branch Davidians were dangerously in the thrall of Koresh; it feared a catastrophic act like the mass suicide, in 1978, in Guyana, of the cult leader Jim Jones and his followers in the People’s Temple.

Where did they get this belief? From a perfect, unbiased source–an academic:

Doyle’s memoir emerged from an oral-history project conducted by the religious-studies scholar Catherine Wessinger, who maintains that the People’s Temple was an example of the “fragile” subset of millennial groups: defensive and unstable, and willing to initiate great violence in response to an outside threat.

But, as Gladwell observes, the Branch Davidians didn’t hide or keep people locked away in their compound. They didn’t sit around waiting for the end of the world. Instead, they “engaged freely and happily with the world around them.” Members of the group came and went at will. Koresh himself went into town several times a week to take a bible study group out for beers, or to jam with local musicians.

There were guns at the compound because the group ran a legal business buying and selling them. In other words, aside from being an oddball group of religious nuts, the Branch Davidians were no worse than anyone else’s neighbors. No one was held hostage. David Koresh wasn’t Warren Jeffs.

Gladwell points out that transcripts of the negotiations are telling, and they are–even more telling than he realizes. The FBI followed its script as if they were dealing with garden variety gangsters who would trade their own mothers to save their skins. It never apparently occurred to them to treat the Branch Davidians as people who believed what they professed, let alone as normal human beings.

On another occasion, the Davidians asked the F.B.I. to bring milk for their children, and the bureau insisted that some of the children be released before the supplies were handed over:

F.B.I.: We got the milk for you . . . we’ll bring the milk down. We’ll drop it off. . . . In return, we want four of your kids to come up, and we’re going to give you the milk for the kids.

This is how negotiations are supposed to work: tit for tat. But what proposal could have been more offensive and perplexing to a Branch Davidian? The bureau wanted to separate children from their parents and extract them from the community to which they belonged in exchange for milk. “That doesn’t make any sense,” a Davidian named Kathy S. tells the negotiator. But the negotiator thinks she means that the terms of the deal aren’t good enough.

See what’s going on there? The FBI, unable to let go of its powerfully-held belief that the Davidians were a cult led by a con man, or some kind of criminal gang, tried to trade supplies for hostages. They did this over and over in the lead-up to the final attack. But because the Davidians weren’t a cult, they just saw armed men demanding hostages in exchange for supplies.

The LEOs involved in the operation refused to consider any interpretation other than the one they were handed in the beginning. And in the end, they unleashed violence at the people they couldn’t understand. So who’s really the ‘fragile’ and defensive group that initiates great violence in response to outsiders’ failure to play along with their manichean worldview?

I don’t mean to tar all LEOs with this brush. There are certainly good people in blue — I’ve met a few myself. But, they are at least as prone to groupthink and bunker mentality as any other organization, and likely moreso given the nature of their work. It’s what led Lon Horiuchi to kill someone he couldn’t even see, and what led the LAPD to shoot up a random truck and two innocent citizens during the manhunt for Micheal Dorner.

So it’s not that some cops are willing and eager jackbooted thugs. The potential danger in Connecticut is that someday soon, officers like the ones who ran the Waco siege may show up at the home of a gun owner who’s done nothing but have his name appear on a list of people whose registration forms arrived on Jan 2. They’ll be thoroughly convinced that gun owner is a violent domestic terrorist who’s holding the rest of the family hostage. They’ll demand his or her spouse or children in exchange for food or a phone call.

And if s/he says no, as almost any of us would, the negotiator will just assume they’re holding out for more. They’ll think of the gun owner as the one who’s trading on the family’s lives. And then, at some point, they’ll call it quits and send in the tanks.

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117 COMMENTS

    • I think that anytime people refuse to live by the rules and obey a lawful court order to answer criminal charges…..you can have another WACO. So yes is my answer.

      • I agree.

        WACO happened before the DHS and their usurpation of the FBI’s role in interstate LE. In their mindset, EVERYONE is a terrorist to be eliminated.

        • Answer the charges in a court of law before a jury of your peers or fight it out with the people charged with bringing you there, Either way….we will still be here in the end.

        • BATFE, maybe, MIGHT have some jurisdiction, but as much as BATFE and DHS want to involve themselves in every little thing in order to justify their existence, the issue at hand is a violation of an unconstitutional STATE law, and unless they can find a bona fide link to terrorism or some federal firearms law I think BATFE/DHS are out of the loop.

          Whatever happens is on the (dirty) hands of any Connecticut state or local LEOs who participate.

      • If, people take it to any LEO at lunch time, or any other time in public, that engage in confiscation, it may stop. No threats, just ask them if they were involved, and walk away.

      • When the rules are unconstitutional and immoral, which side is not abiding by the rules? The whole point of resistance is that it is resistance to a wrong.

    • We all die. Are you ready to die for a cause? What if it was generations before your name was cleared? What if it never was? Molon Labe is easy to type. But when the bolt chambers a live round – that’s where men are made and internet heroes wet themselves.

      Btw this is not a personal attack at the OP – just my general thoughts.

        • TRUST ME: U/UR BUDDIES WONT BE THE ONLY ONES! ‘THOUSANDS’ AROUND THE NATION R KEEPING A CLOSE EYE ON THIS ONE.

          THOUSANDS!!!!!!

      • Waco and Ruby Ridge were the last freebies. From now on, these bastards will have to TAKE OUR FREEDOM. And the price won’t be worth the effort. If they want a war, it is their choice. It is well past time that this “government” was reminded just who they serve, and they will find out it is We, the People. Not some arrogant, self-praising dictator and dickhead in Washington, District of Corruption.

    • Yes, many will wait. Why, because the authorities won’t randomly go door to door. Some estranged wife in a messy divorce will spill the beans that her soon to be Ex has an “arsenal” of unregistered assault weapons. She will claim she was threatened. He will be painted in the media as a crazed, abusive, caricature. We will all buy it because he is not the pure as wind-driven snow example of a patriot we are waiting for. And…he will be taken down all alone. He and others, one at a time, until others quietly just get rid of their guns because no- one will stand with them.

      Or, something like that.

      • I think this case started with an Ex- wife. And he only had black powder supplies.

        TTAG 032714 ARTICLE
        DC Resident Mark Witaschek Found Guilty of Attempting to Possess Illegal Ammo

      • “We will all buy it…”

        Speak for yourself. It doesn’t matter what bullshit excuse is thought up, or whether your neighbor thinks you are not a perfect angel. When they come to disarm you, if you are a man, there is only one response: WAR.

      • Chris Dorner fought the LAPD by himself in multiple engagements and shot, what, 5 cops before they got him? One man against a domestic army and he beat them multiple times. That’s a pretty big bite.

      • Cops shot more people hunting him than Dorner did. If you want to get real tin foil hat, Dorner was involved in the murder investigation of Canadian Elisa Lam, who drowned in a water tank in her hotel, who was involved in the making of a child porn movie. The shushing up of it is part of what made him snap against LAPD. This is just one of those creepy 4chan conspiracy theories though, can’t find anything backing it up. The creepy elevator movie of her acting weird is really unsettling.

  3. Anything is possible, however, it would be a lot bigger. Reason being a lot more people of the gun would get involved then just CT residents. Almost civil war type.

  4. “The rational consensus seems to be that if the gun-grab order were given, cops would pinch a registration scofflaw at the grocery store, at work, on the road…anyplace other than his or her home where a Ruby Ridge-style tragedy might ensue.”

    Then, why, oh why, do they continue to do it the Waco/Ruby RIdge way up to and including this example from last December? http://www.kbtx.com/home/headlines/Man-Charged-With-Killing-Burleson-County-Deputy-No-Billed-by-Grand-Jury-243993261.html

    • The ennui of compliance. Cops want a rush, but all these people complying with their authority keeps them from busting skulls like the standard issue operators they are. Their solution is to deny the ability to comply.

    • I see they were looking to shoot a dog…You know, David Koresh went into Waco all the time, he could have been picked up there. The local sheriff had served warrants on Koresh before, with no trouble. ATF went out looking for trouble, even if they had to create it themselves.

  5. I can always hope that after receiving the order to violently end a standoff with an otherwise law-abiding AW owner, LEO’s promptly pepper spray the ass-hat that gave the order & claim self-defense.

  6. I think it will be smaller. If they start confiscation it will most likely be a single family that gets slaughtered. After that, I predict that the majority of CT gun owners would rid themselves of their RKBA. A small number may group up to fight back. But I doubt it would be in any cohesive manner.

  7. Mecha75, my guess is you’ve never been to the state with the most gun companies in the country. We may be the minority, but we take this VERY seriously…

  8. I am convinced that Big Brother will do something in spectacular style to make an example of someone and try to instill fear and compliance in everyone else.

    And they will do it in such a way as to avoid culpability. For example they will initially surround a place and lay siege. After they have enough cameras around from national news networks, they will throw in tear gas canisters which will “unexpectedly” set the home on fire and kill everyone inside.

    Mark my words. Big Brother loves to lay siege on a place and then burn it down. Look at all the historical examples.

      • To be fair, the MOVE folks where discharging firearms at people infringing on “their turf” from a fortified bunker on the roof…

        • I understand, but women and children were burned up. This was under Mayor Goode’s watch, was it not?

      • Well, the bombing of MOVE certainly was interesting, bizarre.

        My biggest regret is that the next day, walking down Walnut Street (in Phil.) to catch the subway, I saw this excellent shirt in a store window. It had a quality silk-screening retouched photo of former mayor Frank Rizzo with dreadlocks, and the caption underneath said “Frankie Africa.” I passed it up and it was gone. Damn!

      • Only thing is, the SLA and MOVE were no great loss to society. SLA was nothing but a bunch of domestic terrorists and criminals. MOVE was a bunch of morons along the lines of the Black Panthers and BLM, and were involved in the murder of a cop in the late 1970’s. My dad was in the navy at the time of the MOVE bombing and had just been transferred to the (now defunct) Philadelphia Naval Shipyard. I was in high school. Even then, I agreed with my dad that it got rid of scuzzy buildings and the scuzzy occupants alike (though I DID feel sorry for the kids who were too young to know any better).

        Ruby Ridge, OTOH, was murder, plain and simple, of the wife and son of a guy the feds decided to label a “white separatist”, and whom they had entrapped on NFA charges. Not sure about Waco, but I figure any time the BATFags are involved, they may as well be playing the “Horst Wessel Song” as they goose-step into action…

  9. As a LEO, I wish I were offended by this. I wish I could say it isn’t true… and that rational LEOs with good hearts will always be able to shake some sense into their fellow agents/officers. But I can’t. This manner of group-psychology affects a closely knit organization just as readily as a mob, if not more so. A small number of CT agencies will be socially disobedient and won’t enforce the new law. Some will come to their senses and find non-violent means for enforment. Sadly, some won’t. The latter will almost certainly lead to tragedy in CT. It breaks my heart.

    • Sadly, followed in close order by New Jersey and Maryland. All three have the legislative and LE potential. And Waco-style circumstances could easily be set up in Southern NJ and Western MD. [Shudder]

    • Same here. Please do your best to inform and educate your brother and sister LEOs to DISOBEY ANY UNLAWFUL CONFISCATORY ORDERS. If they don’t, it’s on them.

    • Hal, I appreciate your sentiments here and you seem to be a pretty good guy but what do we citizens have to do to get you and all like you to understand: There is no non-violent means of enforcing an unconstitutional law of this nature. We have allowed our rights to be stripped from us one by one for decades and have never raised a hand of violence in response. Why? Because we are good people who are doing our best to live our lives and raise our children to, hopefully, be better people than we are. Because of this, the authoritarians who make and enforce the laws that deny us our rights have become emboldened enough to believe they are able to act with impunity. We continue to do nothing because we, unlike the authoritarians, are not violent people and do not wish to become so.

      What you, and all others in all three branches of government, need to understand, is that our patience and willingness to suffer further deprivation of our rights is at an end. If you attempt to confiscate weapons in Connecticut, or any other state, you are going to unleash decades of pent up frustration and rage, and violence will be brought down on you such as you have never imagined. No one wants this to happen but you and all like you around the country have pushed the rest of us into a corner that no longer allows us to retreat any further. So I beg you, do not allow this to happen. I also promise you, if you start it, we WILL finish it.

  10. When the confiscations come, there wont be any subtlety about it. It’s simply not a word in most LEO’s dictionary.

    They will look out the window at their MRAP and in the armory at the Tac Gear and AR’s and think “well we bought ’em we sure as hell should use ’em” It will be aggressive, over the top and obvious.

    Even if it is a takedown at a grocery store, guaranteed it wont be a tap on the shoulder from officer friendly saying, “we need to talk.” It will be SWAT with guns drawn and the comical command voice saying “on the ground!” and a boot on the neck.

    • I agree, and it’s sadly depressing. Like that Waco monument above. Absolutely avoidable, were it not for LE groupthink.

    • And not just LE “group think”, but an agency at the top of their food-chain unwilling to take advice from any other source on how best to proceed.

  11. I don’t doubt that. But most people who may be willing to put their lives at risk, wouldn’t do the same with the lives of their family.

    • Remember at WACO the ATF mounted an armed assault against the compound and were fought off by its defenders. This after the initial massive ATF aggressive assault on the front doors was rebuffed and Koresh was wounded. Of course the ATF took casualties; the Branch Davidians had no reason to believe at that point that the ATF would not breach the upper floor windows and come in with guns blazing, so is it any wonder they shot the bastards while they were still on the roof?

    • I remember that at Waco the Feds managed to lose half of the gigantic double doors that constituted the entrance to the compound. The doors that the Davidians said the feds fired shots through without warning. Lost–without a trace–while in the custody of the Feds. Imagine that.

  13. I think that the risk of violence will be directly related to how involved the state or feds are (compared to local police).

    It’s been my observation that local police, being closer to the community, are more in tune with the needs of their citizens. And, since they deal with the worst in society every day, they are more apt to treat law abiding citizens fairly, especially if it comes down to an issue that the local police may not support.

    For example, in my mid-sized michigan town, I hold a CPL. I am also a regular atendee of city council meetings.

    The cops know about me, council knows about me, and no one has a problem. 4 out of 7 of our council members have CPLs, so I generally talk guns with them before the meeting. The local cops know I carry, so we usually talk guns after the meeting.

    I also know for a fact that of the 4 CPL holders on council, at least 2 of them are carrying during meetings. It’s no big deal around here.

    Now… instead, look what would happen if the feds came in…

    1. They could take the attitude that they’re the ‘boss’ and that their say on everything is final.

    2. They would get frustrated that the local police and citizens don’t support their gun grabbing, which would piss them off and force them to go even more hard-core with #1

    3. They would be itching for a conflct, as a means of validating their own sense of power, as a way of showing up the ‘locals’, and as a way to prove once and for all that they’re in charge.

    As a side note, and a little humor, I would remind the reader of the ‘michigan rum rebellion’ back during the days of prohibition….

    A new federal agent decided to up his game against the Italians and their habit of drinking wine. So he raided a home in northern michigan and seized their barrels of wine.

    When attempting to transport the wine out of the city, the fed was stopped in the middle of the street by the armed sheriff of the town. An armed standoff between the feds and the local police ensued, with the local police telling the feds they had no business messing with their local citizens.

    In the end, the court ordered the wine returned. The local sheriff was reelected, the federal agent got transferred out; and now, every year, the town celebrates ‘rum rebellion days’ with parades, rides, parties, etc.

  14. Given the attitude to guns held by the political establishment in Connecticut, a Waco type raid will be on the table in the same manner that Bill Clinton’s attitude towards guns emboldened the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, Explosives and Really Big Fires. It will be an objective lesson to People of the Gun. And the People of the Gun will realize that there will be no homosexual groups, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, or immigrants offering any support.

    • And here all this time I thought it was Janet “no kids” Reno who flipped out about any purported child abuse story, and was set on making an example of what she took to be a cult that abused children.

      Who knew?

  15. I disagree with the writer. Cops are lazy, they don’t want to go through the research and shoe leather work of figuring out your schedule, its easier to beat down your door, shoot your dog, and grind your half-asleep face into the ground while they fondle your wife and terrorize your kids. In either case, don’t go down without a fight.

  16. This law won’t be enforced for years. And then, only after all the rebel fires have simmered down, the law will be enforced. I predict it will be enforced mostly during traffic stops. Cops will see “FELON ASSAULT RIFLE!!!!!” on their nifty computer. “I’m going to need to search your car, mmmkayy?”

  17. The Davidian’s were a cult, but that is beside the point of this article or the correctness of its analysis.

    What ever people want to belive, gotta let’m.
    Until kristallnacht.

    • At some point in history EVERY religion, including the so-called “main-stream” religions recognized today, was considered a cult. Since every religion ever invented or promoted has been and is a matter of opinion and/or faith (with the single exception of the one I believe), there is absolutely NO justification for killing people who disagree with your philosophy.

      “One man’s religion is another man’s belly-laugh.” – Robert A. Heinlein.

    • The thing that really galls me is this: “…believed that the Branch Davidians were dangerously in the thrall of Koresh; it feared a catastrophic act like the mass suicide…”

      So, to keep them from committing suicide, they decided to murder them all.

      Perfectly logical, to a sociopath.

      I’m hoping for a huge turnout at that rally Saturday, but not expecting it to get much press. I hope a lot of POTG take their cellcams and stuff.

  18. I believe that the State authorities will demand a “demonstration” of the consequence of disobedience to the law. They will not directly wish anyone to die, but if someone does, it will reinforce the impression that resistance is futile. The odds are, to me, in favor of night time raids, or armed standoffs, with a panting liberal media reporting the owner’s refusal to comply with the reasonable demands of the police. And all of this is a great show to impress upon the others out there that they need to remove their rifles from the state. Many citizens, fearful of dying, will comply.

    As a gross generalization, police do not react well to people who do not comply immediately and completely with their “orders,” whether those orders are lawful or not.; often naked aggression is used to compel compliance, sometimes at the point of a gun. How many people have been arrested for lawfully filming police conduct? How many fireman in the last few months have been handcuffed and placed in police cars for refusing to comply with police demands to move their vehicles? The culture of the police is a culture of control, and a disrespect for the rights of citizens. Can we doubt that this culture will be expressed in the inevitable raids on gun owners in Connecticut?

    • See, if the media spin didn’t work great at Waco, I don’t see how it will fly in a confiscation scenario.

      Maybe they just don’t care, but a day is coming when they’ll have to.

    • All I’ve seen on the news the past 2 weeks has been flight 370, a tiny bit on Crimea, and fluffing Obama for making 7 million sign ups. No mention of BP spilling oil in the great lakes, no mention of Yee, no mention that just the 600 million dollars for the Obamacare website could have just bought insurance for the uninsured. Mainstream media as the 4th estate is dead. Probably has been for the last 40 years, we just didn’t have the internet to notice it.

  19. I wonder if this event goes down, will others from around the country decide to join in the fight and fire another shot heard around the world. Imagine one million southern and western boys riding into the liberal northeast to kick ass.

    • I have a vision of a few hundred Connecticut gun owners standing defiantly on Lexington bridge with loaded AR-15s. Let’s see the Liberal media spin THAT.

  20. Being a younger guy I think it’s interesting the ruby ridge incident is not taught in American history classes. In fact I wager that if you asked the average American high school student about it they wouldn have a clue.
    In my opinion I don’t believe a repeatable incident will occur in CT quite yet, I think there would need to be a very large incident for for the confiscation order to be given

  22. Is BATFE involved in CT? sorry I haven’t really been following that situation too closely, been focusing on other stuff. Like why the sky is blue, and the meaning of life, you know, the big questions.

  23. Never gonna happen…….

    In all of CT, there *might* be one guy who holds the troopers off for a few hours, before giving up peacefully, but that’s about it. They’ll start with the confessed felons and arrest them with surprise. Make a splashy example of some of the more upper middle class of them. Then the rest will comply silently, such that when the knocks on the door come, they can cryingly proclaim that they aren’t in violation. And that will be that. This is the way the “Constitution State” ends, not with a bang, but a whimper.

  24. The other side of the coin. At this very moment in Federal Court, 55 of 64 Colorado County Sheriffs are suing the State of Colorado. They flat out said they would not enforce the new gun laws, which did include a magazine ban. I can only hope more LEOs will do the same.

    • Yes. We took an oath to enforce laws, but if you listen to the oath, before any mention of state laws is the oath to uphold the US Constitution. Then it mentions state laws/constitution. Police officers are generally cognizant of this and the ability of the two to conflict.

      Bottom line is most police got into their job to help people, catch bad guys…etc NOT to be the enforcement arm of an over reaching tyrannical government. Maybe its just my geographical region, but I have spoken to literally hundreds of officers (we talk about this topic often) and none of them would obey such an order to enforce laws like this or assist another officer who chose to do so.

      • The problem is All the guberment officials swear to uphold, defend, protect ect.
        the Constitution, and look at the skewed interpretations or total disregard
        they all have, pushing their own desires or agendas.
        I wonder how many have even read the Constitution once, let alone studied it and are guided by it.
        Constitutionally legal or not, Congress passes laws (like throwing spaghetti at the ceiling) they see what sticks or goes unchallenged then becomes law.

  25. I’m honesty hoping that the order will be given. Because only then will “they” learn just how many police/sheriff/constable..etc will disobey that order and I think it will shake the libtards to their core. Now if we only had a free press that would report that mass disobedience amount LE to obey an unconstitutional order…or is that to much to ask for?

    • And just what exactly happens when ONE of those cops who doesn’t disobey gets shot? You’ll ride to the rescue and the thin blue line turns into a pointy f*cking phalanx.

      I come from generations of law enforcement, and sorry bud, you’re all the same. Idealism doesn’t count for squat when it hits the fan, you’d put rounds into your own grandma to cover for your boys.

  26. Anyone in CT that is part of the Resistance should have most of their stuff, less a few sacrifice guns, hidden. If you’re looking to stay low, hide your guns. Don’t hide it under your bed, hide it somewhere solid. All it takes for them to find one and you’re done.

    Stand strong, CT. We’re pulling with you.

    MOLON LABE.

  27. There were those who thought to go lift the siege on the Branch Dividians back then but nothing came of it. Years later Timothy McVey struck a blow on their behalf.

    If the CT police become in the habit of taking down gun owners in inconvenient places it will be a message to those who remain free.

    I’ve said before and will say again that fewer than 50 determined individuals, so long as they are unknown to police, can cause total havoc on a state the size of CT. A few nights of well planned and determined work would result in a state wide power outage and likely an interruption of the water supply.

    Another few nights and the power outage would last for months.

    The first incursion into the relevant state records office would reveal the name and address of every cop in the state.

    Just a few targeted kidnappings would result in a massive sick out of state police personnel leaving the state defenseless.

    At the same time the ongoing blackout would result in massive riots in the urban centers demanding most of the attention of those police who did show up for work in light of the fact that by doing so they left their families, obvious by now, targets, home alone.

    With riots raging in the cities and a dearth of personnel to combat the basic crime let alone the revolutionary acts of revolutionaries the restoration of the power grid would be a years long project.

    CT would devolve into a 3rd world country within a first world country or else fall under marshal law.

    The declaration of marshal law would restrict all citizens of the state in such a way that they are unlikely to care for it. Many would be added to the rolls of the patriots who resist.

    Given time, outside fighters would come into the state and a second either civil war or second revolution would be fought in CT.

    The government of CT has the option either of backing down or of becoming the battlefield for the second American revolution.

    Stand Strong CT. If you fight, there are many who will come to your aid (many more than those who oppose you).

    • Firearms owners of Connecticut, many will come to support you, and those that oppose you WILL NOT come to aid the authorities, because they have no real will to fight. The Feinsteins, Bradys, Shannon Watts’s and Schumers of this world only have hot air to offer. They expect, no they demand that the police/military do their bidding. Not one of them will actually risk anything if this becomes a violent action. Hopefully, the police and any other agencies will realize that the nitwits giving orders are indeed nitwits, not to be trusted or respected. I truly pray that the future will not result in good honest people being violently oppressed by this new law, but I feel it will come to that and that makes me very sad. It also makes me wish I was a younger, healthy guy. Not much an old guy like me with a limp and wheezes when he breathes can offer in a fight for freedom…….. but hey some of our founding fathers were old geezers too.

      • This is exactly why I believe the police will not be called upon to confiscate guns. My new front-runner is NATO troops.

        But I’m dubious they will be able to find sufficient numbers to get the job done.

        Not if we have LEOs and sympathetic members of the military joining out side.

  28. I like Ardent’s hypothetical, but still think a mass firebombing a la Devil’s Night would be just as effective. Just look at France. You cannot stop a wave of violence that size. And if all the 2A supporters in CT set fire to the house of a politician or police officer, it would be impossible to ignore. Of course, to really get the goat of the media, firebomb their homes and offices. 😉

    • With LEOs being potentially sympathetic to our side, I really pray no one sets fire to their homes. Of course, the grabbers may do just that as a false-flag to make us look bad, and win public sympathy.

      Please, PLEASE. DON’T!!!

  29. I’d bet money anyone who has posted to this site is on someone’s list. Plus more money that they have a way of shutting down sites like this real quick.

    They are going to launch a MASSIVE SWAT attack against a single homeowner in a closely packed neighborhood. Collateral damage will help LEO’s cause. “If only they had surrendered we would not have killed or maimed all their neighbors”

    After that it will be easy. Look how easy it was to pass the Patriot Act after 911 and hire all the TSA gropers?

    I can’t help but think how those idiots opened up on that tarpaulin covered boat in Boston. The kid was found by a homeowner after the area was cleared by the gallant cops! Then they have the nerve to say their tacticool vehicles helped! They were afraid to look too close in case they got hurt!

    You are dreaming if you think this will end with no bloodshed. It’s what they want.

    • I’d sure like to see them shut this site down. Meanwhile I’ll train anyone interested in the ways of irregular warfare.

    • “After that it will be easy. Look how easy it was to pass the Patriot Act after 911 and hire all the TSA gropers?”

      They forced a vote, and no one had even had time to read it. ANY legislator who votes yea on something they haven’t read is unworthy of the office, and should be removed from office.

      If they ask you to vote on something you haven’t read, always vote nay.

  30. Don’t even hink the Feds are going to take a backseat on some action where they have the opportunity to justify for more funding. That was the whole reason they went in to Waco.
    They will try to use some extended interpretation of the Commerce Clause or something like that.
    The Commerce Clause, in their eyes, gives them justification to inject themselves in just about everything in our private lives so much so that it has become an abomination of what the Framers of the Constitution intended.
    Even though they may not initially be going door-to-door, I can see them first getting Martial Law declared.
    Checkpoints. Car searches first where there is no opportunity for stand-offs.
    That would greatly restrict traveling with firearms.
    Think of an operation that would be minimal at first, an then increase strategically and incrementally.
    I don’t think the Feds will make the same mistakes they did at Waco.
    Just my 2cents.

    • I don’t think the Feds will make the same mistakes they did at Waco.

      I don’t think so either. But they can and will make new and bigger ones. There are just too many tacticool operator as fsck toyz available, and roided up tacticool operatorz itching to use them.

      NEVER underestimate the power of stoopit.

      • If a tool is made available to them (MRAPS, sound weapons, etc., etc.) there is ZERO chance they aren’t itching to use it.

        And they will. Count on it.

  31. Search and read “And how we burned in the camps”.

    And remember Sgt. York’s advice about hunting turkeys…

    • Are they really going to come get us all. . . like all 150,000,000 of us? Should we be scared? If I thought for a moment that I couldn’t say what I thought I’d be willing to fight right now, today.
      I’m just going to go with the whole ‘government doesn’t have time for me’ thing. That’s backed up with the whole 1st amendment thing. . . you know, like the part where I talk about how to win the revolution with IEDs. I’m sure I’m on a list, I’m also sure that it’s not important. Grow pair and join me out here where we have freedom. You’ll like it.

      • They sure won’t come after all of us at once. They’ll do it in places where their twisted “laws” are already in place, like CT, MA, NJ, and NY.

        They won’t do it for some time in states that respect the RKBA. Not now, anyway.

  33. I remember at Waco F-Troop and the Fibbies were under intense political pressure (like Bill and Hillary level) to set an example. And the three agents on the roof killed in the initial assault were hit by friendly fire and this is why they were buried quickly without autopsy.

    I do not doubt there will be similar pressure to set an example in Connecticut. And no doubt with Obama’s tacit approval.

    Terrorism is where the will of a particular group is imposed on others without the others consent through acts of violence or coercion. The terrorist’s mantra is “Kill One. Frighten a hundred.” This works as much for state terrorism as it does for the mad mujhas.

    The US government has absolutely no compunction in killing citizens to make a legal point. Remember that over 10,000 people died of alcohol poisoning during prohibition because the government deliberately tainted alcohol with methanol and other toxins knowing it would be used in illicit alcohol production.

    • Its on video, the guy goes through the window on the roof, then his “partner” sprays machine gun fire through the window and wall. Criminal or incompetent, no middle line for these people.

    • One of the roof videos clearly shows that one agent went in through a window, and as soon as he did, two agents emptied their mags into the room. Looks like a hit, to me….

  34. 90% of everything posted on this blog and those like it is posted by government agents. If you have advertised a pro-2nd group it will be or is already infiltrated. The government has plainly said it considers those who support the Constitution to be terrorist. To think our constitutional Republic can survive without a fight is nieve. To think that the people who are prepared to defend the Republic and actually able to do so are organizing it’s defense on the internet is stupid but that doesn’t stop thousands of loyal government agents from trolling the internet. Another case of misguided group think coalescing before our eyes.

  36. My MIL was director of Caritas at the time this all went down. He would come into Caritas seeking assistance with 3 or 4 women that he called his “wifes”. The Sheriff at the time was on good terms with Koresh, knew where to find him and how to get in touch with him. Point being that Koresh was known in town and other than being crazy (he stood trial a few years before the siege and had a casket brought into the court room, claiming to be able to raise the dead) the Feds and Janet wanted to make a point with tanks instead of having the LEO bring him in for questioning.

    Oh and by the way, that didn’t happen in WACO!!!! It was ELK but the media had to pin it on the closest “big” city.

  37. “The FBI, unable to let go of its powerfully-held belief that the Davidians were a cult led by a con man…..But because the Davidians weren’t a cult…”

    Weren’t a cult?! I live in Waco! What part of the definition of cult does the writer not understand? David Koresh claimed to be none other than Jesus Christ. They were a cult in every sense of the word.

    Let’s at least agree on who and what David Koresh claimed to be. The rest is up for debate.

    • Using the term “cult” is a media technique for marginalizing a mark and turning sympathy away from him and towards the accuser. Don’t you know anything about how they operate?

      If Jesus were alive today, the media would label him a “cult leader”. Refuse the Kool-Ade.

      • If the Branch Davidians had refused the Kool-Aid, they’d all be alive today. Me, I prefer Gatorade! The Branch Davidians were a Christian cult. Mr. Koresh claimed to be Jesus; I think that qualifies as a cult by any reasonable definition.

        • Well, JESUS claimed to be Jesus! And the Romans took notice and issue with the claim.

          So what was your point, again?

          What if Jesus had claimed to be David Koresh?

        • “Mr. Koresh claimed to be Jesus; I think that qualifies as a cult by any reasonable definition.”

          Yeah, OK, so they were a cult. So what? Is that supposed to make it OK to murder them all?

  38. Ardent, yeah I was sorta kidding about the helicopters. Did I really need to write “Haag” or “lol”? If we are completely honest about it no helichoppers are going to come grab the people in the comments who come across as more “paranoid”.
    I ask you this if I was say new to guns or a fence straddler and stumbled across this blog how do you think I would feel reading some of these comments? I ll tell you, If I was new to guns I’d be darn sure to never let anybody i know realize I had firearms, in fact I’d probably sell that new glock 19 I had just bought at my LGS. if I was a fence straddler I would decide that the left is correct and that all gun owners are paranoid. Think about that, the comments on this article could potentially change some bodies mind on the firearms front. And your whole “grow a pair and join me” comment was totally unneasesscary. Frankly I’d love to see you walk a mile in my shoes. Frankly, the vas majority of comments on any given article probably send up a red flag somewhere, and they’re just putting together a dossier on the individuals commenting. When they think your a threat they have ways of finding you.
    If I no longer comment it is because the black helicopters have come for me.

  39. piecemeal confiscation will result in piecemeal retaliation with many to choose from in various areas….tit for tat…..Freedom is never ‘free’….may those in power realize armed Americans will NEVER allow evil to win………..Semper Fi

  40. I remember Waco. The local Sheriffs and Texas Rangers were dismayed by the actions of the BATF and FBI. They were shoved aside for the big show that went oh so wrong. Janet Barbeque Reno and her squad of goons WANTED an incident. And many of the first BATF casualties were from friendly fire. The two guys killed on the roof were shot in the back with 9mm.
    That was when we all agreed. No more.

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