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I’ll leave it to TTAG’s Armed Intelligentsia to properly fisk the above Facebook posting by the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence’s Christmas Day post. For my part, I’ll say this: self-defense is a natural right. While I would never criticize someone for practicing non-violence, I would never remove any man’s right or ability to defend his or other innocent life by any means necessary. “Justified” violence may not be spiritual, but yes, it is inspiring. It inspires others to do the same, creating a society where the rule of law can exist. The best case for anyone seeking peace and prosperity. As for the second paragraph . . .

Gun owners do not see all people as “dangerous others.” But they do recognize that some people could be a “dangerous other,” and take steps to prevent that person from injuring or taking innocent life. That’s reality. No argument that “the power to build community life in each one of us.” Those who do not seek to interfere with their fellow man’s non-violent pursuit of happiness – a description that does not apply to the CSGV and its adherents – does much to build that community. That is all. Your thoughts?

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  1. Look where it got him.

    There are times when I might turn the other cheek. But I won’t let someone kill me. I have no ambitions of being worshiped though.

    • I’d kinda like being worshipped while I’m alive. Dead lo these 2000 years, He’s not only uninterested, he’s dust.

      • “I’d kinda like being worshipped while I’m alive.”

        Win the lottery.

        You will be deluged with people who will worship you at your feet. Friends you never realized you had.

        “I have dozens of friends and the fun never ends
        That is, as long as I’m buying”

        Styx, “Too Much Time On My Hands”.

        • saw them at weber high school. they had flash pots and a fog machine.
          and the ides/ shames union opened.

    • In Hebrew times a smack on the face was really more of an insult thana legit physical assault.

    • good point. however, let’s all remember two facts: ‘turning the other cheek’ is in reference to being slapped. He is trying to say not to escalate if you don’t have to. being slapped, or the like, is not the same as being robbed or assaulted.
      secondly, Jesus died on the cross ON PURPOSE!! He is God and need not do what He does not wish to do.

      • Yeah I was actually speaking literally.. I have turned the other cheek due to slapping of the feminine variety anyway. Happens enough.

      • Well, his followers generally turned the other cheek quite literally even so. Well, most of them, anyway, which number was quickly reduced by means of lions and amphitheaters (seriously, if you have any evidence that anybody ever fought back against that, I’d love to hear it). The Christians that remained were of the other kind, and since that is the kind that proceeded to make Christianity the state religion of the Roman Empire, from where we come to this day, that’s the kind of Christianity I have for you.

  2. Wow so much fail in that… I’m non-violent until someone brings it to me and mine. I’m not Jesus nor do I want to be.

      • Not only that, but they’re actually advocating aggression here. That’s what’s so ironic. They want the police to sent SWAT teams after people who own the inanimate object that they don’t like. They’re actually the most violent people.

    • The better question would be what if Jesus had an AK and all the ammo he needed, would divinity survive rounds down range?

    • I , on the other hand , am very anxious to meet my Lord and my Savior and pray every moment for his immediate return or rapture , which ever the case may be , but I will not sit and let my life be squished or the lives of others be squished ( murdered ) as long as I have the ability to defend and repel my attackers . The Apostles did not walk up to Roman or other threats and say , I am here to give my life for Christ . They did not choose crucifixion over freedom . They may have chosen death over denial of the Christ , as many Christians are also choosing to do today when confronted by ISIS or Taliban or any of the other Mooslem nut fanatic groups out there , but as long as a Christian can help the poor , feed the hungry , minister to the lost , care for the widowed , spread the good news and carry the cross , a Christian wants to continue to provide for and protect their families and remain a viable soldier for Christ . To walk up and offer your life to a devil that wants your head is suicide and not biblically recommended .

  3. Gobsmacking stupidity.

    Unlike Jesus, I’m not God. Unlike Jesus, self-sacrifice of my own life will not atone for the sin of the world.

    So, since I’m not God, and not tasked with the salvation of the world, I am free to heed the Word of God, that it is immoral to allow evil to shed innocent blood.

    • With their limited understanding of Christianity, the whole story is kind of a blur. All they really know is that JC talked alot about peace so that must mean Christians are hypocrites when they don’t just accept the brutality of the state. And of course that means they can “other” us with every ounce of vile nonsense they can muster, for the revolution!

      • Coalition to Stop Gun Violence might consider this:
        Luke 22:36
        “He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

        • Dont forget to train after you sell your cloak and buy that sword…
          Psalm 144:1 “Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.”

      • Admittedly, that whole part about why Jesus had to sacrifice himself to himself is kinda a blurry part of Christianity in general. As evidenced by the fact that every major denomination has its own explanation, and sometimes several (and Orthodox additionally have a an explaining non-explanation along the lines of “it’s all too complicated for mortals to understand, so shut up and trust Jesus”).

        • Only blurry through the lenses of a prophesizing God denier . The blur is removable if you’ll strip off the old coating that has crazed and look through the lenses of Grace that Elohim has provided you .
          I can’t convince you to know Christ nor will I presume to change anyones opinions about His mission .
          Satan , as most would know him , is very real and could only be defeated by a foe of absolute faith and sacrifice , a foe that the old horn head knew and feared and one that was foretold would come , from the day of his victory over humanity , until the Cross was raised and the vail was torn .

    • Thank you Chip.

      Jesus’ mission was to die as atonement for all the sins (past, present, and future) of all mankind. For that very reason, he could NOT use any means — violent or non-violent — to avoid the horrific death that was his destiny, no … his very reason for coming to Earth.

      Now that we have that out of the way, we can say with confidence that God charges us with defending our lives, the lives of our family members, and even (to a lesser extent) the lives of our neighbors and community. To abdicate that responsibility is abhorrent. If having the ability and will to defend our lives is wrong in God’s eyes, then why did the Israelites wear swords while rebuilding the wall in the Old Testament (Nehemiah chapter 4)? Why did two of Jesus’ twelve apostles have swords while eating the Passover Seder meal with Jesus at the Last Supper? Why did Jesus tell Peter to put his sword away rather than to dispossess it at after the Last Supper? Why did God create the immune systems in our bodies that violently attack and annihilate pathogens?

      Or look at it this way. The Bible makes it clear that murder is wrong. The Bible also makes it clear that if you have a dangerous animal, allow your animal to get loose, and then your animal kills someone, you are responsible for their death. In other words, if you allow a murder to happen, you share the guilt of that murder. When you fail to defend yourself, you are allowing murder to happen to yourself which means YOU share the guilt of your own murder.

        • Larry, now your just trolling dude. Out of character for you, me thinks. I got that you don’t believe Jesus is God. Got it. Point made. Multiple postings on your part denigrating the savior of billions is just sophomoric. Interestingly, the only one smiling at your posts is Your Father, who loves you anyway. Just as you loved your little baby when s/he was obstinate or rude as a small child. May the Lord of all bless you and keep you and shine His Grace upon you and your family.

      • “There is nothing inspiring, or spiritual, about violence, no matter how ‘justified’. ”

        Not inspiring? The men of June 6th, 1944 would like to have a word with you about self-sacrifice.

    • Exactly! He did what he did so that we would not have to. Because we COULD not do what he did. That was him defending his flock in a way that only he could. God, Jesus and the bible all take the subject of those who could intervene and choosing not to very seriously. It’s labeled a sin. It also calls those who do intervene to be held accountable for their actions. David himself was not allowed to build God’s temple because he’d shed too much blood in battle, yet he was still “a man after God’s own heart.” Jesus was not a pacifist, remember the incident in the temple with the money changers. He acted out of righteousness. A better warning would be to remind others that we’d better act out of righteousness too, or be prepared to be judged for it.

      • “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning…. and the Word became flesh and dwelled among men.”

        “I and the Father are one.”

        Jesus did not claim to be a “demi-god”. He claimed to be God: Emmanuel, God With Us.

        • Well said Chip. May I add “all things were made by HIM” “and by HIM all things consist”(hold together)-hey it it looks like I just discovered the GOD particle…A person named Jesus Christ-GOD the SON. “Who being in the form of GOD thought it not robbery to be equal with GOD”…All those quarks,Higgs Bosons,neutrinos and the bizarre world of sub-atomic theory can be summed up in one person-JESUS. So when will all those big brains discover what “dark matter” is?

        • You have to admit it’s kinda interesting that the sole reference where Jesus speaks of himself as God (rather than Son of God, which might as well be a metaphorical expression, as e.g. many neo-Pagans use for themselves, in a sense that we’re all “sons of gods”), as well as the sole reference to the Trinity and Jesus-as-Logos, are in the Gospel of John, which is dated to 60-80 years after the events that it supposedly describes, and which directly contradicts things that other Gospels agree on. It’s almost as if someone wrote it to assert some doctrinal points that arose in that time…

        • Int19h ,
          There are actually many more reference to the divinity of Jesus the Christ beyond the first part of John’s gospel , a section not always attributed to the author , actually .
          Christ himself , acknowledged his divinity before Pilate .
          I think you should regroup .

      • Chip, The concept of a demigod refers to a hybrid of a human and a god. We see that in Greek mythology, with someone like Hercules for example. A demigod would be half human and half god.

        The Bible on the other hand portrays Jesus as Fully God, and Fully Man.

        • Yes, but is the God and Man both one nature within Christ, or does He have two distinct natures united in one Person?

          And if it is two natures, then did both suffer on the cross, or only the human nature?

        • Bible isn’t good with math ( funny )
          Int19h ,
          Pondering the unknown is obviously a quarry of yours and I appreciate your banter more than you may know , so out of respect and brother ship , as a thinker myself , I offer a simple answer to this quandary .
          The Father usually suffers greater in the pain of the child than the child probably suffers themselves . I at the very least remembers the suffering longer than my kids do when they scraped a knee or bruised their heel . The pain I felt when looking down at my lifeless daughter on the cold table of the emergency room December 10th 2007 was so complete , I should by all accounts be dead now myself . The thoughts of her suffering in those moments before she left our earth are at times still unbearable and I could have not gone through it without my faith . She was taken in a series of circumstances and events that could only be equaled by the movie ‘ final destination ‘ or the will of God when she was swept away by a freak 100 plus year flood .
          I have another daughter that was full of life and so beautiful until she sold her soul to drugs and as it turns out , my prayers for her were answered by the very addiction that afflicted her when a heroin introduced infection led to near death , multiple strokes and now to her being an 8 year old at 36 .
          The Father suffers with the Son .

    • It just shows how desperate they have become.

      They’re reduced to sophomoric, ridiculous interpretations of scripture in order to push their agenda. Pathetic.

      • I’m pretty sure there was a very lengthy section where he told his followers he came not with an olive branch but a sword. And that if they didn’t have one they should sell their cloak for one.

        Jesus was not a pacifist, and he did not teach his followers to be pacifists, he taught them to try to be decent human beings.

        A pacifist protects nothing but ideals. People are more important to me than watching loved ones die to prove I’m right.

        Though these are the same people who say islam is a religion of peace…

  4. “Let’s all do our best to reject a mentality that counsels us to see our fellow Americans, and human beings, as dangerous ‘others’…”

    Dangerous others? Like, you mean, gun owners? So you’re not worried about me posing a danger to you anymore, and will stop trying to disarm me?

    It’s a Christmas miracle!

      • He was given what passed for due process in the first century Roman Empire. His judges found no fault in him but he was executed anyway to appease a mob.

        • “Where’s the video”. LOL, as for now you’ll have to settle for Mel Gibson’s “Passion”.

        • It was not just the Roman government that killed him. Jesus was brought before a quorum, council, or court of Jewish elders. Whether it was duly formed or not I am sure some would debate, but I think that the council viewed itself as duly formed. Furthermore, you have this tidbit from the ranking priest:

          “it is expedient for you that one man die for the people, and that the whole nation not perish.” – John 11:50

          Made damn sure that Pilate
          Washed his hands and sealed his fate
          – Lucifer

  5. Hey sometimes Jesus gets mean…”In righteousness he doth judge and make war”. His mission was to lay down his life for the whole world-mine is to protect me and mine. The irony is these evildoers writing this will be judged by their “non-violent” Christ…

  6. Are they genralizing all gun owners and enthusiasts as devout Christians?

    As an atheist I find that insulting. Possibly a microaggression or dog whistle …

  7. And [Jesus] said to them, “But now, whoever has a money belt is to take it along, likewise also a bag, and whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one. — Luke 22.36

    What were they supposed to do with the swords? Trim their fingernails?

  8. Did they not read Isiah, Daniel, or Revelations? He’s coming back with a whole lot of violent vengence someday.

    • And there were those among them who would not taste death before his return. And all of them are dust, as is he.

      • You don’t have to believe in Him, but the dust comments are a bit silly — I’ve got more evidence that you’re wrong than you do that you’re right.

        • All it takes is a personal appearance on TV. Why do you suppose it hasn’t happened, since he sure spread it around when it could not ever be proven. And yes, it is impossible to prove a negative, except to demand proof of the positive. Work on it.

          And all comments by “believers” are sillier than I could ever hope to achieve.

  9. Idiots. If they knew anything about Christianity, they would know that the plan was always for Christ to die in our place, and He is the only one (being perfect) who could so. Furthemore, Scripture explicitly prohibits punishment for killing in self defense.

  10. I can’t speak for Jesus. But I do know that if the US, the British Commonwealth and the Soviets and others didn’t fight back, CSGV would be a Nazi front organization.

    Hey, wait a minute . . . .

  11. Oh, and the answer to the question ‘would we worship him if he had resisted’ is yes, Christ is stil The Son Of God.

      • All will one day. Every knee will bow, and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Hopefully, you will do so sooner rather than later. Do so during the time of His favor rather than on the day of His wrath. No one is innocent, but some are pardoned, and then adopted.

        • He sounds like a very abusive father for sure. I’d rather have no daddy than have one who has random fits of rage and “benevolence” like that. Down with the tyrants!

        • Int, it’s less an abusive father than one guiding his child/children.

          Or, as a parent, do you let your (small) children do whatever they want whenever they want? I’m guessing most parents would say “no.”

          A parent knows things the small child does not. The lessons of the Bible are that there are things we don’t know at all or don’t know how to do well at all. These things include how to treat each other, how to live a truly happy life.

          At some point, good parents have to take “physical” action. For example, I once saw a Mom with several small children have to physically snatch one of them from the road at a crossing because the little lad was urgently running into traffic.

          There are dangers with the metaphor…State as “parent” type tyranny. But, there is a balance, and the true lessons of all moral religions lie, if anything, in seeking balance in our lives.

          Balance is something else we are not very good at, by the way. It’s no wonder that’s the message from “higher” intelligence.

          • As a metaphor, it’s really poor for many reasons.

            For one thing, parents generally don’t punish their children by death or eternal torture, or, say, tell them to kill their favorite pet to prove their undying devotion. When they do, we put them in jail for that.

            For another, children are not permanently subservient to their parents. They grow up and become adults. But Abrahamic god is a permanent father figure that you can never grow up to match.

        • “Or, as a parent, do you let your (small) children do whatever they want whenever they want? I’m guessing most parents would say “no.”

          As a parent, do you threaten your children with endless fire burning them for all eternity, and such nonsense? I’m guessing “no”.

        • What I generally find as a common denominator among non-believers is a disconnect with eternal thinking . Living ones life like there is life beyond our flesh and bones existence . All God is rejected at this point .
          How could God allow his children to suffer ?
          How could God do ?
          Why would God ?
          These are all very legit questions to ask when we ask on a finite scale , but when we ask a finite question against an eternal backdrop our perspective is astigmatic and not squared in the equation we are viewing any longer .
          The punishment of a Gehenna or eternal fire for the refuse is confused way to often with the eternal death of separation from God . The eternal death of one who refuses to acknowledge God and ones (our) need of redemption before Him is simply eternal separation from Him after a given point in time . Gods punishments are our reward for not following His guidance and instructions laid down prior to us committing the acts we are receiving the punishment .
          If I tell my child to not put their hand into the fire and they defy my instruction and do it anyway and as a result burn their hand , have I punished them by the burn ?
          I love my child and don’t want them to burn their hand but my truth led to the burn .

  12. Obviously, they want to ignore the Revelation 19 Jesus. His eyes are like fire, He leads the armies of heaven, and He will strike down the nations with the sword of His mouth. He will rule the nations with a scepter of iron.

    There is a day of His mercy (today), and there is a day of His wrath (that day).

    Christ chose to die, in the place of sinful men and women. That does not mean that legitimate violence in the defense of innocent life is any the less noble. Anybody with the slightest knowledge of Scripture knows that the Living God has always permitted (probably required is a better word) lawful self defense, and the defense of others. The “love of neighbor” demands it.

    Truth be told, these people probably hate the Biblical Jesus even more than they hate the 2nd Amendment.

  13. “Let’s all do our best to reject a mentality that counsels us to see our fellow Americans, and human beings, as dangerous ‘others’…” …Except when you see someone going about their business with an openly carried gun, then call in a swat team and hope they get shot by the police.

    I have no problem with people choosing to be nonviolent themselves, but robbing others of their right to self defense is itself a violent act, and there is nothing noble or spiritual about it either. You’re just contributing to the violence and power of those who commit evil in more concrete ways.

    • Not to mention the hypocrisy of claiming pacifism while advocating for calling people with guns to harass people who do things you don’t like.

  14. I’m pretty sure Jesus knew that had he fought back when he was arrested, he and his disciples would all have been slaughtered right then and there. If that happened Christ’s teachings would have been done for. This is the same motivation for “render unto Caesar what is caesar’s.” Taxation may not have been “right,” but getting killed over that would have stopped the movement and would have been the wrong hill to die on so to speak.

    I’m not even particularly religious this is just my observations from the many years I’ve still gone to church.

  15. ‘Let’s all do our best to reject a mentality that counsels us to see our fellow Americans, and human beings as dangerous ‘others’.’

    And a merry Allahfukinakbar to you too! News flash, some of our neighbors ARE dangerous ‘others’.

  16. They know about as much about Christianity as they know about guns. No sane person would take their counsel on either subject. And BTW, given the homicidal rants against ordinary gun-owners common in their comment threads, I find their “pacifist” posturing to be stunning in its hypocrisy.

  17. Jesus’ reason for being – as we’re told – was to die as a sacrifice.

    Nothing is gained for anyone if someone submits to being murdered.

  18. If I was the son of God, i’d be punkin people all day. “Go ahead and hit me you sissy bitch, I’ll walk on water and tell dad to banish you to hell after unleashing the 7 plagues on your fat ass. What’s that you say? Crucifixion, smucifixion, I got something for that too; boooooo, I’m a ghost, catch me if you can sucker!” I’m not the son of God so until then, if some tweaker asshole wants to try and break in, do bad to my wife and daughter, I’m pretty sure God will be o.k. with me defending my family by any means necessary. After all, as far as I know, the commandment that says, ‘Thou shall not kill,’ is more appropriately translated from Hebrew as ‘Thou shall not murder.’

    • After all, as far as I know, the commandment that says, ‘Thou shall not kill,’ is more appropriately translated from Hebrew as ‘Thou shall not murder.’

      You are correct fine sir!

      • And their definition of “murder” around 6000 years ago was killing a guest in your tent. Wait until he’s a mile down the road to kill him and rape his wives and daughters, it’s all good. And people take this crap seriously.

        • Larry, regardless of the logic of your counter-argument, you are not making any friends with it, nor converts to your viewpoint. In this case it may be better to be the pacifist and just let people who are not a threat to you go about their business.

          “One man’s religion is another man’s belly laugh.” – Robert A. Heinlein.

        • And their definition of “murder” around 6000 years ago was killing a guest in your tent. Wait until he’s a mile down the road to kill him and rape his wives and daughters, it’s all good.

          Cain killed Abel with a rock in a field. Abel was NOT Cain’s guest and they were NOT in anyone’s tent. And yet the Bible clearly delineates that act as murder. Note that this is the earliest recorded murder in the Old Testament and dates back to the very dawn of human habitation of the Earth … easily 6,000 years ago.

          And then we have the example where David put Uriah out in front of a battle with orders for all of Uriah’s fellow soldiers to withdraw from him so that Uriah would be struck down and die. The Old Testament clearly delineates that as murder as well.

          Your claim is demonstrably false Larry.

  19. The whole bit about if Christ had been violent he wouldn’t be worshiped by two billion people? Perhaps. He was a peaceful man, not a pacifist.

    But that does not stop 1.5 billion Muslims from worshiping a mass murdering religious psychopath like Muhammad.

      • Hey Larry. I notice you don’t deny that I am correct.

        What I have found is that athiests like yourself, are what christians are supposed to be.

        Hateful, intolerant, bigoted. Derogatory and demeaning towards those they disagree with.

        I find the ugliness of your thoughts, that shows the lack of love in your soul, as giving me no reason to change the knowing that I have come to.

        That as a once agnostic, that thought that all of those that believed in a higher power were fools and worse, that those “fools and worse” were in fact, correct.

        That there is a higher intelligence that directs the universe, that we are as one with that being, and that being is fueled by unconditional love. That when I am in that space, I am filled with and in that monent, I AM, unconditional love. (You like what I did there?)

        So you see Larry. I am filled by and I am guided by that intelligence that I also call G-d, And in my submission to the creator of us all, I AM free.

        I was once blind and by the grace of G-d , I have come to see. And I could no more voluntarily turn from the reality of the universe than I could voluntarily jab my own eyes out.

        So you, as I have come to see you as a spiritual brother, I wish you the best in finding your path back to the source of all love, and life. But that is dependent upon you, G-d is a loving parent, that has given us free will. You are the one that needs to knock, and then he will answer.

    • >> But that does not stop 1.5 billion Muslims from worshiping a mass murdering religious psychopath like Muhammad.

      In many ways, Islam was a speed-replay of Christianity. Consider this: Christianity had its peaceful hippie founder in Christ, and then it has its share of power-hungry tyrants using it to promote and extend their rule, to suppress internal opposition and conquer new lands – starting from when it was adopted as a state religion of the Roman Empire, pretty much every Christian ruler in Europe used it in some or all of these ways. Islam, on the other hand, had its peaceful hippie founder in Muhammad (first half of Koran), and then it also had a power-hungry tyrant using it to promote conquest and squash dissent – except it was also Muhammad.

      Christianity has a net benefit in that only the peaceful part got written in the holy books, so the other crap can be set aside if needed – even if it took us almost 2000 years to actually do so. With Islam, alas, the holy books contain all the bad parts set in stone.

  20. I guess that Michael Beard (President), Josh Horwitz (Executive Director) and Ladd Everitt (Communications Director) are the New Trinity.

    Can you believe that CSGV was established by the Methodist church? I can.

  21. … [nonviolence] brings great rewards, and is the only way forward for our nation and world.

    Nonviolence brings great rewards alright — to violent thugs (whether they be of the neighborhood two-bit variety or the government variety). And does this mean that our police and military should be non-violent now as well?

    Let’s all do our best to reject a mentality that counsels us to see our fellow Americans, and human beings, as dangerous “others.” Instead, let’s embrace them as neighbors, friends, and people of good will.

    RIGHT BACK AT YOU COALITION TO STOP GUN VIOLENCE. You claim that I am “dangerous” (for having a firearm/s) when I have never attacked anyone and have no intention of attacking anyone. How about you start applying your principles to yourselves: embrace the good people who happen to have firearms as neighbors, friends, and people of good will … because that is EXACTLY who we are.

    This “be nice” and “view everyone as your friend” mentality is just plain stupid … no, make that insane, when a violent criminal attacks and sets out to rape, beat, and/or kill you. In that situation you do what you must: view that person as an evil attacker who is intent on stealing your honor, your body, and your life … and you do whatever it takes to stop them.

  22. As an animal my only purpose is to live, breed and help my descendents. Anyone thinking humans are somehow made differently from other types of meatbags needs to try going 5 days without food and water, and see how much morality there is left. Anyone f with me, I’ll f them up. Plain and simple. I just wanna live and weapons are of high priority.

  23. I’m as mindful of “WWJD?” as the next guy, but I suspect that if I allow a burglar to stab me to death, I won’t be getting back up three days later.

  24. I abhor violence. Violence should only be used in desperation when no other means will prevent catastrophe. But the complete rejection of violence is evil. Nonviolence is for cowardly weaklings who lack the conviction to perform uncomfortable acts to make things right and the evil who think they’re superior for refusing to help those in need. Go ahead and let your own children be murdered by the wicked because you won’t use your power to save good lives. But don’t strip me of my power to do good. If that makes me a dangerous “other” in the eyes of these cultists, so be it. They’re the ones who want violence done to their fellow citizens. They want us shot or forced into imprisonment at gunpoint if we refuse to relinquish our freedom. They’d rather their Lord and savior be murdered than righteously defend himself. They suggest that if he had not allowed himself to be murdered, he’d be unworthy of worship. Jesus accepted his execution for other reasons. A man who accepts his murder without resistance does not value life. It is a rejection of and affront to the entire universe by choosing not to live, the same as a suicide. Religiously speaking, it’s spitting in God’s face. The nonviolent would never experience creation because it would mean having to risk ending the life of an evildoer, and they are unwilling to do that. Such a worldview is profoundly immoral.

    • I am quite content with violence, I’ve seen plenty. That may make me a split second quicker than you in pulling the trigger, which seems like a good deal to me.

  25. This just an Alinsky power tactic to use the enemy’s own rules against them.

    “The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.” Saul Alinsky – Rules for Radicals

    CSGV is not even being close to original with this idea, they took it directly from Alinsky.

  26. The gun control fascists have now graduated from misinterpreting meaning of the second amendment to misinterpreting the Bible. Why am I not surprised?

    • There are about a million different cults within the “Christian” church, and every one of them makes up their own rules, ie “interprets scripture differently”. If you spent a year at a time in a different congregation, never mind a different cult, you’d discover that the meaning of religion is determined by the *man* who is explaining it to you, and usually it will be much to his personal benefit. Interpretation is probably necessary, anyway, since the bible was written by men, about a god invented by men, then translated and retranslated by men, why don’t we just toss it all and invent a new one?

  27. I invite all of them to live by this and allow all manner of crimes to be committed against them without retaliating. House being robbed, spouse being raped? Why even bother calling the police, just turn the other cheek! Let’s all lay down our arms and cede the world to criminals and terrorists, just as jesus instructed.

  28. So much to say but ill keep it simple.
    Esther 8:11:12
    Nehemiah 4:14 to start.
    Self defence is demanded of righteous men of good heart.

    Sin is a very thin line to cross.
    It’s not for men to pretend to know the mind of God.

  29. Simple answer. Jesus was a child. The son of God.

    His father… Our FAther took vengenace and smoke people by the thousands. There is a whole book about it and his wrath. It’s the Old Testament.

    A father will protect his children at all cost and spare no expense. With no excuses.. And no remorse.

    Merry Christmas you filthy animals-

  30. Christianity does not advocate pacifism. Good Heavens, the American Revolution was grounded in the Christian duty to fight tyranny. There were numerous ministers and pastors in the colonies then who made all manner of speeches about fighting tyrannies and the Bible is filled with stories of oppressed peoples fighting tyrants. It is from the Bible that modern liberal democracy, to a degree, even came into existence. Because it is from the Bible that various political philosophers came to understand that there is no “Divine Right of Kings” and that people are not to be pacifist. Thomas Aquinas spoke of a right to resist tyranny. Right to resist tyranny was spoken of by the Calvinists. Resistance theory and tyrannicide are found throughout much of Christianity’s development.

    A classic misunderstanding of this idea that Christians are to stay passive comes from Romans 13: 1-7, which many Christians have used to justify pacifism and allows tyrants to be tyrants. For example, Christians in Germany during the 1930s were told to stay pacifist in the face of Hitler, that to resist him was the same as resisting God himself. This is because Romans 13: 1-7 says it is a sin to resist lawful government. The problem with that is in assuming that all forms of government are lawful government, which they are not. A government that oppresses and slaughters people is not lawful government, and resisting it is not an act of sin against God.

    In Luke 22:36, Jesus said to his disciples: “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.”

    That Jesus was crucified was because he had a unique duty, which was to sacrifice himself to save humanity from Original Sin. It wasn’t because he was just some pacifist and thus got nailed to a cross as a result of it.

    These idiots also don’t seem to realize that there is not a choice between violence and being a pacifist. One can be peaceful and not be a pacifist.

  31. The key point they miss is that if you have no choice but to be a pacifist, that’s not particularly righteous of you. Anybody can be completely nonviolent when they have no other options.

  32. Unlike Jesus, I’m not out to save everyone’s soul from eternal damnation. I just want to save my own ass and, maybe, the asses of other innocent victims so that we can live out our lives in good health and die of old age.

    Pacifism works only if your oppressor has a conscience. It worked for the civil rights movement in the United States because very few racists were willing to go as far as murder and much of the country supported the movement. It didn’t work for the Jews in Nazi Germany. The Holocaust ended only after the Allies killed millions of Germans and occupied their homeland.

    • Yep. Ghandi in China or in Stalinist Russia would have been just another “statistic” , as Stalin said.

      He said something like “one death is a tragedy, a million deaths is just a statistic”

  33. I do not know what influence it might have had on how many followers he would have today but, if Jesus had been packing an Uzi, they never would have nailed him to that cross.

    Just saying….

    • Jesus let himself get nailed to the cross because he was dying to save humanity from Original Sin. It wasn’t that he was just some pacifist who believed strictly in non-violence and thus just let himself get killed like that.

  34. GunGrabbers and Liberals are a synonymous group. They are ‘progressives’ (sic).
    And one of their beliefs is that humans evolved and God does not exist. Therefore
    to make such a statement about the Son of God is the epitome of hypocrisy. But
    hypocrisy is the legal tender of liberals.

    • Gun Grabbers and Liberals are a synonymous group. They are ‘progressives’ (sic).
      And one of their beliefs is that humans evolved and God does not exist.
      Yeah, I was wondering on what moral authority they are quoting the Bible; although it is well documented in the Old and New Testament that Satan can recite Scripture.

    • Not believing in God and believing in evolution doesn’t mean that one doesn’t believe in Jesus. Jesus as a real human preacher (but not God or son of one) is perfectly compatible with a materialistic outlook at the universe.

  35. Must be a different Christ theses antis are babbling about. The one I know took a whip and drove the money lenders out of the temple. I’d have paid good money to have watched that.

    • I can’t believe I had to read this far down into the comments to finally find someone willing to cite the fact that Jesus, in at least one documented instance, carried a weapon and initiated physical violence.

  36. Jesus was a human as he was God. I can’t really speak for Jesus but I don’t think he really wanted to die on the cross anymore than anyone else. “Father, if you are willing, take this cup away from me. Yet not my will but yours be done.”

  37. Christ was not bound to the way of life that the rest of us were, he was here for a purpose. Christ is just as much God as he was human. He was literally here to SAVE mankind, now why would he go off and kill someone or command someone to kill someone else when he’s trying to save the people. God has commanded others to kill back in the Old Testament however he commanded those attacks in defense of Israel. Then when you go back over to the New Testament there was no more attacks on the enemy that were commanded by God. Even Peter when he was with Jesus and he cut off the ear of the soldier Jesus said no because there was no need to do so. Jesus didn’t want anyone to die because he knew that he was about to allow everyone to be saved, before then only the Jewish nation was allowed to be saved so killing the enemy didn’t mean much since they weren’t going to be saved anyway. Now that Jesus has come and served his purpose on Earth we should do everything we can not to kill but we still have every right to defend ourselves. The bible says it is a sin to murder but is no sin to kill. Murder as I see it is killing when their is no need to kill. However their is another side to it when you do kill you are disqualified from certain jobs of the church. Now I’m not certain on what jobs specifically but I remember the story of when David wanted to build a church for God or something like that and God said no because he was a man of war and had blood on his hands. I could be a little off on that story but that’s the jist of it. Anyway these were just some of my thoughts on it hope I didn’t bore anyone too much.

    • However their is another side to it when you do kill you are disqualified from certain jobs of the church. Now I’m not certain on what jobs specifically but I remember the story of when David wanted to build a church for God or something like that and God said no because he was a man of war and had blood on his hands.
      Ummmm.. the Church did not exist at that point in time and it is not a building or even necessarily a visible super structure organization.
      I think you need to spend sometime reading some of Martin Luther’s theological papers to find out that the true Church is comprised of called out believers and may be visible and invisible.

  38. Okay, but Old Testament God was 100% about smiting, and depending on which branch of the Judeo-Christian faiths you ascribe to, Jesus and God were the same “person”, so nonviolence was only a very brief part of a larger agenda of the wholesale slaughter of tons of people for tons of reasons [including but not limited to “she looked back but I told her not to”, and “they enslaved an entire population”]. So.

  39. The second I saw they were referencing Jesus, I knew the post would be filled with ignorant drivel about who they think Jesus was, or why he was here. I was right. What threw me for a loop though, was the second paragraph.

    “Nonviolence is not for the faint of heart.”

    Say what mofo? What are they even suggesting here? That we whom are willing to do great violence in defense against tyrannical behavior are faint of heart? If we just had a little more courage, we could lay down our guns, and be slaughtered with dignity and honor? Surely they are not speaking directly to gang bangers and other random murderers? Every time man, they just more and more stupid.

  40. I’m not Jesus, and neither are my SO or my kids. When a cop can fit into my cargo pocket I’ll consider disarming, but until then, I’ll be appropriately equipped.

  41. Let’s all do our best to reject a mentality that counsels us to see our fellow Americans, and human beings, as dangerous “others.” Instead, lets embrace them as neighbors, friends, and people of good will. The power to build community lies in each one of us.
    That’s why we’re shutting down the coalition to stop gun violence.

  42. You know, I distinctly remember something about “I came not to send peace, but a sword.” Too bad most governments have banned the public carriage of swords. I guess I’ll have to substitute my sword for a gun.

  43. I can see CSGV never read the Old or New Testaments of the Bible.
    Jesus was really not always so peaceful during his human life on Earth.
    Scholars think Jesus looked more like a younger Arnold Schwarzenegger.
    Jesus did physically and forcefully cleanse the Temple.
    As a matter of fact, he stirred things up enough that the religious authorities wanted to kill him and his followers.
    His first Earth mission is mentioned in Isaiah and some other blurbs in the Old Testament.
    Jesus is most certainly not peaceful on his Second Coming as mentioned in the Old and New Testament texts.

  44. Gandhi and Dr. Martin Luther King taught nonviolent protest to change societal ills. They both supported self defense.

    Pacifism can work on a personal level. Self defense includes caring for others. You survive so your kids can. You don’t allow bad people to harm the innocent.

    Pacifism is hard yet it’s a limited response. Deciding to be prepared to do what’s necessary is harder. I think some people think if you choose self defense it’s easy because you are choosing anger as a response. Little do they know the amount of forethought and training it takes to be clear and vigilant.

    “Bad people” are people for whatever reason are living outside the norms of care and compassion.

    • MLK Jr. applied for a permit to carry a hand gun and was turned down and Gandhi believed strongly that his martyrdom would bring about the changes he knew were needed for his nation to heal and not fall into civil war .

  45. Wow, reaching for straws?
    He absolutely could but if He didn’t then we wouldnt have the atonement for the sin of mankind.

    Interesting how they left out John 18, where Peter cuts off the ear of the high priest. His apostles carried weapons that were sharp and they were well practiced with them

    Also left out the temple where He cleans it out with table flipping and whips

  46. “If Jesus had responded to the violence wrought against him with violence of his own, slaying his persecutor’s where they stood, do you think more than two billion people would be worshiping him today?”

    Yes. Muhammad ordered the death of quite a few people. Today billions of people are worship/respect him and belong to this religion.

    Most gun people are non violent and carry guns for self defense only. Criminals carry guns for other nefarious reasons. Why has CSGV bunched them together as one? Do they immediately assume all gun owners and carriers are heartless violent killing machines? Quite the opposite. CSGV is the one violently called for people to “SWAT” gun owners – resulting in possibly people’s death. After years of drudging in the hate cesspool – it is very difficult to see CSGV taking any kind of high road for a perception that they actually care for people.

    • Boom! Should be calling them out on this exact point. Will they try to make the same point during Ramadan?

  47. Nonviolence is only virtuous when violence is a serious option.

    Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels? – Matt 26:53

    Be strong. Be armed. Be willing to use violence. Be willing to show mercy.

  48. Always amazing how people know just exactly what Jesus WOULD have said or done…as long as they get to wag their nasty little fingers in your face and dictate your choices. There was sermon in the early 1700’s in Philadelphia where there had been a recent influx of not altogether welcome Quakers. The Quakers preached a similar form of near absolute non-violence and at a time when what we would consider a brief trip to the interior might well have meant the loss of your hair and worse. The sermon was in rebuttal it’s logic being to the effect that it is wrong and an insult to God Almighty to not defend the sacred life He gave you. Equally not to defend the lives of your family and your lawfully acquired belongings because they are purchased with honest labor at the cost of your limited time on this earth which is a fraction of that sacred life. I wish I could remember the name and date, other than early 1700’s. It was a rousing defense of self defense. That kind of talk would be enough to get me back in church as opposed to the tribal virtue signalling from this poor clown who evidently stood too rapidly in that low ceilinged room.

  49. The Jesus character was most certainly not a non-violence advocate. He was assaultive, aggressive and temperamental. Read the Gospel of John. Yeah, it’s bronze age indefensible nonsense but at least if you read it you’ll see just how upside down CSGV has got their version of the story.

  50. This is about the stupidest thing I’ve ever read. Jesus was specifically sent to earth to die on the cross to cover the sins of humanity.He could have turned his oppressors and murderers into rocks if he wanted to,his mission was clear and he followed through,if Jesus was sent to machine gun every one in Rome and Jerusalem,that’s what he would have done.Atheists and people that claim to believe in Jesus but don’t should keep their pie holes shut on the subject of WWJD .

  51. MARK CHAPTER 12 verse 29And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. 31And the second is like, namely this, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these.

    MATTHEW 18 verse 7Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 8Wherefore IF THY HAND OR THY FOOT OFFEND THEE, CUT THEM OFF, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

    If Jesus would have you cut off your own hand rather than allow it to harm you, why should your neighbor be any different?

  52. Oh jeez. It reminds me of being a kid and arguing on the court about whether real basketball players wear Nikes or Reeboks. Really it comes down to the dude making the dunk or sinking the three pointer.

    Both are fine weapons with their own merits. I’m sure you’ll see teams guys going with whatever they feel works best for them regardless of what they’re issued.

    • I think nikes are the ones that ghetto thugs kill each other over,that would settle that argument. Killing over reeboks? Get real.

  53. The Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:2-17 NKJV)
    1 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me.
    2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My Commandments.
    3 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
    4 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
    5 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
    6 “You shall not murder.
    7 “You shall not commit adultery.
    8 “You shall not steal.
    9 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
    10 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

    If everybody obeyed all these commandments,there would be no need for guns……. CHRIS,unfortunately,they don’t.

    • There are actually 613 laws Goose. It was never meant to save anyone. It was a schoolmaster pointing to the need of a savior. Some of the most non-violent places in the world have no written laws…no written law when Cain killed Abel or when God destroyed the world in Noah time.

      • 613 according to jews,I’m not jewish. And what is the “it “you’re referring to that was never meant to save anyone? Atheists and non believers try to co opt Jesus and make him to be something he wasn’t,if they think the Bible and Jesus are fairy tales,they shouldn’t use it or him as an example.

        • “IT” is the 10 commandments you seem to think aren’t Jewish(BTW there were no “Jews” then-just Israelite Hebrews). And there were 613 commandments. IT doesn’t mean much if you don’t care. CAnd IT sure won’t justify you with GOD. “Jews” refers to JUDAH as a nation after the destruction of Israel the Northern kingdom. Laws don’t matter if you want to commit crimes…

    • If everybody obeyed all these commandments, there would still be male and female “servants” (it actually means “slaves”). I would say that those guys would definitely need guns to kill their pious owners and win back their freedom.

  54. Jesus was not a pacifist.

    “But now,” Jesus said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! (Luke 22:36 New Living Translation)

  55. Murder is different than killing, vengeance is different than defence. Jesus did not teach us to be defence less! He instructed us to not be vengeful! There is a big deference!

  56. ‘Gun owners do not see all people as “dangerous others.”’

    Conversely, the people at CSGV see all gun owners as “dangerous others.” Pot, kettle.

  57. Well, sacrifice is a noble sentiment. But judging from the popularity of radical Islam, killing those who wrong you (and who think differently) seemed to have worked for you-know-who. Besides, didn’t the bible say that while killing is wrong, killing someone who’s going to kill you was justified? It’s been a while since I read it admittedly.

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