Chicago Thug Threatens CCW Carrier With a Fake Gun, Gets Kneecapped

Chicago Robber Shot CCW Concealed Carry Defensive Gun Use

Illinois has 243,245 CCW license holders – that’s about 2.5% of its population, which means it has one of the lowest per capita CCW rates in the U.S. We can talk all day about whether the prevalence of concealed carry is a crime deterrent, but the fact remains that some Chicago criminals feel comfortable enough to threaten their largely disarmed population with realistic fake guns.

A 63-year-old man was walking with another person in South Chicago one evening last week with at least an hour of broad daylight left, when the two were approached by four young men – a 16-year-old and three accomplices. Here (and in screenshot above) is the Google Street View of the block where this incident occurred.

After the instigators demanded the victims’ property with what looked like a real gun, the concealed carrier shot the 16-year-old in the knee. His “friends” fled, of course, leaving their pal in a world of hurt waiting to be rushed to the hospital, where he is currently listed in serious condition.

The gun the muggers were using wasn’t real, not that the concealed carrier could make that distinction in the heat of the moment. Maybe the wayward youth has learned a painful lesson. And maybe, will the number of licensed carriers increasing in the Windy City, other would-be stick up men may think twice.


  1. avatar The Chuck Norris of Rifle Calibers says:

    That’s just plain stupid. Might as well try to rob people with a .308!

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      When they get caught it wouldn’t be considered armed robbery if they used fake guns. Kids can easily buy fake guns online — a cheap investment for their career of crime.

      1. avatar Darkman says:

        The commission of a crime even with a fake gun is still a felony.

        1. avatar Psyguy says:

          ‘When they get caught it wouldn’t be considered armed robbery if they used fake guns’

          While I was going through college and worked midnights in a store, a guy had his hand in his coat pocket saying it was a gun

          He was charged with armed robbery.
          Passing notes to a bank teller saying you have a gun when you don’t …. same thing

          Maybe the laws have been p*ssified since then – who knows.

      2. avatar Swarf says:

        Pretty sure that loophole has been closed for quite some time now.

      3. avatar jwtaylor says:

        Not in Texas. Let’s say you are standing next to your friend. Your friend takes out a fake gun and robs someone. That someone draws a real gun, your friend punches him in the face. He falls, fractures his skull, and dies.
        Both you and your friend will likely be charged with capital murder in the state of Texas, and get in line for lethal injection. It’s a long line.

        1. avatar The Chuck Norris of Rifle Calibers says:

          I think in most states it hinges on what a ‘reasonable person’ could foresee happening, and they generally use a very liberal definition of reasonable. For instance if you’re the get a way driver for a robbery and someone gets shot and killed you’re going up for murder since you aided in a crime you should have known could result in murder. It can get a little ridiculous. There was a case a while back (I think in OK) where the robbers were unarmed and the homeowner shot and killed one of them and the driver was charged with the murder of her accomplice. I’m all for harsh penalties for criminals, but convict them for the crimes they actually commit, not anything they can find 6 degrees of separation from.

        2. avatar Erik Weisz says:

          Don’t you mean 6.5 degrees of separation?

        3. avatar Toni says:

          @The Chuck Norris of Rifle Calibers
          here in australia the driver would have been given a slap on the wrist and the homeowner charged with murder even if the other person had shot them first. i wish i knew what i could to to get changes made here so leftist judges cant make crime worse. maybe start hanging judges from light poles alongside the crim they let off with a slap on the wrist

      4. avatar MLee says:

        @ CZJay
        Wanna bet? You may want to check the laws of the particular jurisdiction but most make no distinction between imitation or real. Using an imitation weapon is still armed robbery.
        If you bring up the name Ladarion Roberts in the Spokane County Jail, she is charged with 1° Robbery, 1° burglary and 1° kidnapping plus a few PCS charges. She went in an elderly females home, produced a fake gun, robbed her, tied her up and stole her car. 1° robbery is being armed or assaulting someone while robbing them. Those are all three class A felonies with a maximum sentence of life.
        The law makes no distinction on fake or real weapons.

        1. avatar Matty 9 says:

          A getaway driver is WAY closer than 6 degrees of separation! A murder charge for being that closely involved in a B&E where someone dies is not unjust!

      5. avatar Dyspeptic Gunsmith says:

        Well, this being Chicago, who knows what the government will charge?

        But in the rest of the country, if someone pulls a fake gun that only looks like a real gun, too bad, so sad, it’s considered a real gun as far as the DA is concerned.

        1. avatar JasonM says:

          Chicago is cracking down on gangs, so I’m sure the court will give this kid an extra stern talking to, before letting him go.

        2. avatar Hoyden says:

          He has plans…he’ll walk.

        3. avatar Klaus Von Schmitto says:

          “He has plans…he’ll walk.”

          Not very well with no knee.

      6. avatar Frank says:

        B.S., so using your logic if someone uses a rubber dildo during a rape, it’s NOT really a rape? LOL!

      7. avatar Devon Nulton says:

        Back in the early ‘70s, I once walked out of a bar, at closing time. As I walked across the parking lot, a gentleman in an older model Cadillac
        drove toward me, at a speed that was unsafe in a parking lot. I stepped out of the way, and he missed me by about eight or twelve inches.
        Being young and cocky, I said something challenging to him. He immediately hit the skids, rolled down his dark tinted side window, and I
        found myself looking at the business end of a pistol. I immediately raised my hands, turned, and walked away. Only a few steps later, steps later,
        I heard a car approach quickly, then heard someone say, “Get out of the car, with your hands up!” I looked behind me to see two police officers
        with their guns aimed at the threatening driver. Then I heard him defensively say, “It’s a fake.” They had him cuffed, and in the back seat of the
        squad car so quickly that I didn’t see it happen. Next I saw, the perp was looking at me from the back seat of the police car.

    2. avatar The Chuck Norris of Rifle Calibers says:

      Hmm… I guess my Creedmoor reference was a little too subtle.

      1. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

        Subtle as a freight train.

        1. avatar The Chuck Norris of Rifle Calibers says:

          Yes, well the 6.5 Creedmoor hits like a freight train only one traveling at 2900fps!

        2. avatar Rusty Chains says:

          Wow, that freight train is moving 10 times faster than the Japanese Bullet Train.

      2. avatar Illinois_Minion says:

        The .38 Creedmore fanboyz don’t frequent this website as often as you think.

      3. avatar Matty 9 says:

        Not subtle. I got it. I just think we (all calibers) should move beyond the past caliber wars.

        It’s getting old. I don’t know how much it hurts die from any rifle caliber, neither do the deer.

        1. avatar tickTalk says:

          I agree.. as long as we all settle on the .45-70 gov.
          You can go throw your tiny little bullets at things far away. I want to stop a charging bison at 10 feet..

      4. avatar Creedmoor E Lee says:

        Not at all.

        It’s vitally important to continue spreading the good word until the mouth breathers give up their non 6.5 rifles and fall in line.

      5. avatar SouthAl says:

        No, they are all still amazed at the amount of ass-hurt an objective analysis can produce.

      6. avatar Dave in PTC says:

        Not too subtle. I was just thinking how the 1911 in .45 cal is superior to all other calibers. If I recall, not one single person has ever shown any intelligent, objective evidence to the contrary. So talking about any other caliber is just silly.

    3. avatar ca says:

      A 308 SBR is doable with a folding stock.

  2. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

    Knee cap? Interesting…

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      I think, in his old age, he forgot how the phrase goes.

    2. avatar Rick says:

      Maybe mafia inspired

    3. avatar Nickel Plated says:

      Have you guys seriously never heard of “knee-capping” someone when referring to shooting or hitting them in the knee? Weird, kinda thought it was a pretty common term.

      1. avatar scott says:

        It is common. I just prefer center mass.

      2. avatar tickTalk says:

        It was.. but I always heard it in reference to using a baseball bat…

  3. avatar darkstar says:

    “May have learned a lesson” Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. Call me cynical but I seriously doubt it.

    1. avatar anonymoose says:

      Like this one guy that my dad represents, he will be dealing heroin out of his wheelchair. Don’t worry, I’m sure his granny will bail him out too.

    2. avatar tdiinva says:

      Sure he did. Next time bring a real gun.

      1. avatar Hannibal says:

        Unfortunately… this is likely.

        Center-mass would have been the safer option.

        1. avatar Eric in Oregon says:

          Maybe that’s where he was aiming.

    3. avatar Mark N. says:

      He may go on to other crime, but armed robbery will not likely be on the list because he will find it damn difficult to run away after wards.

  4. avatar Tom W. says:

    Those poor white boys forced into a life of crime from being victims of poverty and,….

    Oh wait….Nevermind..

    That limp will last a while.

    1. avatar The Chuck Norris of Rifle Calibers says:

      If only they could have found jobs that paid a living wage of $15/hr this would have never happened!

  5. avatar RA-15 says:

    I bet the thug learned a valuable lesson , or 2. Guns are not toys , you never point a gun ” toy ” or not at anyone. Also , a bullet to the kneecap is painful , I guarantee you said thug will remember lesson 2 for years to come. It makes me sick to my stomach when I hear this kind of dirtbags going after their elders. What ever happened to the day’s of helping your elders across the street ?

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      What ever happened to the day’s of helping your elders across the street?

      Can’t see them while you’re texting.

      1. avatar Matty 9 says:

        This started under FDR, accelerated under Johnson’s “war on poverty” and REALLY sped up under ournprevious cummander in chief. It looks like the tide is turning. All crime has been falling simce the 90’s

  6. avatar anonymoose says:


    1. avatar Bloving says:

      You just know the fake gun is why his momma will insist he didn’t need to be shot…
      I. Hate. Airsoft. Guns.
      I solemnly believe I sell only one for every ten that are stolen and only once – ONCE, has a customer ever let it be known to me they were using it for legitimate training purposes.
      Everyone else is either just causing trouble or using them to keep their cat off the furniture.

      1. avatar CZJay says:

        I wouldn’t shoot my cat with an airsoft gun. I would shoot those vicious raccoons…

        I practice with airsoft. Airsoft is a good way to become familiar and comfortable with guns without having to handle a real one.

      2. avatar Hannibal says:

        Back in college we would have airsoft fights in the dorms. Imagine that now!

        Of course back then everything seemed more sane, in a way.

      3. avatar Red in CO says:

        Plenty of value for force on force training, although I’d imagine the kinds you’re bitching about are not the $500+ models that can reach out 70+ yards (and that are used by tens of thousands of serious players, many of whom are current and former military/law enforcement in elaborate, multi day events).

        Wanna whine about realistic looking water guns too? What about cap guns?

      4. avatar Nickel Plated says:

        I don’t see how the airsoft gun is responsible for this.
        Did you mean you hate stupid people who act like assholes?

        Let’s not get into the whole demonizing inanimate objects shitck. Kinda makes you come off as a crazy person.

  7. avatar Survivordude1090 says:

    I love a happy ending.

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      1 out of 4.

  8. avatar ironicatbest says:

    What ho, I just got the shit scared out of me. Tromping thru the brush to my fishing hole and jumped up a young fawn, it ran aways and give out a ” eeewhah” here come momma and she wasn’t happy.

  9. avatar Hoodlum says:

    Sounds like the carrier needs to practice more. He was about 16 inches from center mass

    1. avatar CZJay says:

      Either he was listening to the advice in many interviews from mothers of dead gang members or from a FBI agent at the club.

    2. avatar KTR says:

      Well, if you consider the groin area center mass then, OK.

      I believe center mass would’ve been closer to 30-32 inches higher.

  10. avatar HP says:

    “Illinois has 243,245 CCW license holders – that’s about 2.5% of its population, which means it has one of the lowest per capita CCW rates in the U.S.”

    I have a hunch that, like New York State, if you remove the swollen, cancerous liberal city that runs the state, the percentage skyrockets.

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      A lot of the CCW holders are probably in Chicago. Unlike NY, they don’t have a carve-out and are preempted by state law. And a lot of people there realize very well how dangerous it is.

  11. avatar ironicatbest says:

    Nah, that kids going get out of the hospital/ jail( after costing the taxpayers money) then brag about getting shot. Next time he will probably have a real gun. The only thing they learn is how to become better at their- -job- -.

  12. avatar Chris T from KY says:

    The Irish Republican Army use to kneecap people all the time in the 1970s.

    1. avatar JR Pollock says:

      Sometimes they’d do you the courtesy of letting you drop your pants, so you wouldn’t get clothing fibers in the wound. Not kidding…

      The movie “In the Name of the Father” had one such scene.

      1. avatar Chris T in KY says:

        How nice of them!!

  13. avatar Leighton Cavendish says:

    Should have blown his junk off…at least then he could not pass on his damaged DNA (any more)…

    1. avatar Hannibal says:

      It ain’t DNA, it’s learned.

      It won’t likely be unlearned, either.

    2. avatar Toni says:

      back in the late 80’s early 90’s (cant remember exactly when) there was an old granny whose granddaughter had been raped by these 2 guys that had only just gotten out of jail a few days before. six weeks later the cops still had not caught them so she set about finding them herself. found a few guys that looked similar took photos and followed them to where they lived in each case. got her granddaughter to go through the photos and identify the ones it was. took them to the police and told them these are the guys and this is where they are staying. still nothing was done. so she got a pistol that her late husband had brought home from WWII from the bottom of the closet and went and dealt with them herself. knocked on the door of where they were staying and when one of them opened the door she blew his nuts of. she then walked in and did the same to the other and then walked into the cop shop and handed herself in. she never got charged. sadly things have changed in this country in a big way since them

  14. avatar rt66paul says:

    Believe me, severe trauma to the knee can cause a lifetime of pain and very well can make you unemployable. Having to use a wheelchair or gimp sticks the rest of your life is not a way anyone wants to start their adult life. Losing your junk could be worse, but you could still get a job and support yourself.
    A lifetime dependent on the system was just assured.

    1. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

      In one way or another a 16 yo doing armed robberies was destined to be a life time drain on society. When he’s 22 he’ll be easier for the victim to describe to the cop. Gimpy is a description.

    2. avatar J says:

      Funny story, the other year a robber did.shoot.himself in the dick in Chicago.

      With his previous record I don’t think employment is a concern though.

    3. avatar Curtis in IL says:

      He was already unemployable. But now he can apply for disability and get a check from Uncle Sam every month to supplement his thug income.

    4. avatar CC says:

      A lifetime dependent on the system was just assured.

      No. the data indicate that a juvenile committing felonies is to cost society about seven million dollars in their lifetime in injury/death of others. Teaching them a lesson early or incarcerating them for very long periods is cheaper, not more expensive.

      Studies in several US jurisdictions show about 93% of US murder is committed by persons who have committed prior crimes, 81% by those who have committed either ten prior crimes or a prior felony. with plea down and clearance figures this actually means more like 96% and 92%.

      Less consequence is what costs US society the most by far. This since DGU likely save the taxpayer millions, and is certainly more likely to have put this kid on the right path than getting away with it and learning that crime pays.

  15. avatar Gun Free School Zones are a crime against humanity says:

    Don’t fuk with an old dude. He’ll shoot you. And everybody on the jury has a grandparent.

  16. avatar former water walker says:

    This 16 year punk should be in a morgue. And his crew…there are lot’s of concealed carriers in the city. And it’s reported (generally) in a positive way on the local tv news. I really doubt the black voting population will vote for anyone but the dumbocrats. Republicans are raciss…

    1. avatar former water walker says:

      As an addendum: Illinois has slightly over 300000 CCL holder as of TODAY…

  17. avatar Stinky Butt says:

    Too bad it wasn’t a head shot.

  18. avatar MiketheHopsFarmer says:

    Bullet Tooth Tony laughs at wannabe criminals and guns that say replica on them.

    1. avatar Matty 9 says:

      I was totally reminded of that “replica” scene. Especially the “shrinking balls” part…..that was his homies running away!

  19. avatar FedUp says:

    Reminds me of a story from the 1970s, an illegally armed chap in DC was confronted by a small gang with switchblades. He pulled out a revolver and told them to take a hike. They didn’t back down. The leader just said something like ‘sheeet’, and took a step towards him.

    He took careful aim, and shot the leader on the outside of the thigh. He fell to the ground, looked at his guys standing there, and said ‘Ain’t ya goin’ do nothin’?’. They all decided to do nothing, so their intended victim walked away and reholstered his revolver. Better to violate DC gun laws than to get yourself gutted with a cheap switchblade.

  20. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    Play stupid games,win stupid prizes.

  21. avatar Ralph says:

    This is so sad. That poor young man was just turning his life around and would have had a storied career as a pole vaulter. Look at him now, hopping around like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest.

  22. avatar Jim Bullock says:

    And yet this counts as “gun violence” because the honest guy minding his own business declined to be robbed after an assault. (Credibly threatening violence is assault, legally: nuanced distinctions by state.)

    The assault by the four (4,), as in a gaggle, a swarm, a “we got you beat whenever we decide to”group, counts as nothing at all to the folks who want you disarmed.

    BTW, why does someone need a rapid-firing weapon of war, with a high-capacity clipazine and even a folding thing that goes up. Four of them, closed in, then offered violence. When they close in in fours … maybe one shot between reloads isn’t quite enough.

  23. avatar SouthAl says:

    TTAG should start a weekly “Mine’s is Real” column.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      Mine’s loaded.

      Chuck Norris reference.

  24. avatar ATTAGReader says:

    My bet is that the self-defense shooter shot low by accident or lack of practice. Depending on the gun, I do that with the first shot, especially my small .380 pocket pistol with a very long trigger. Easy to pull low on the first shot (but not knee cap low). Next shots I get it together and they are dead center. The idiot thug is lucky the guy stopped with the first shot.

  25. avatar Barry Soetoro says:

    Should have aimed higher. Now this kid will just be a thug with a limp.

  26. avatar Adam says:

    This is such a shame. If only the old man would have trained shooting center mass.

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