There’s a simple way to defend against school shooters and terrorists: repeal Bush the Elder’s federal Gun-Free School Zone Act (and state bans on legal carry in schools) and encourage on-site personnel to train and carry. Or just carry, if training’s not available. Depending on a single, identifiable school resource officer to protect a school from an armed killer is strategically inadvisable (even though it has happened). A truly determined killer or killers could defeat the guard and what then? Beslanl. So when I read that ex-Call of Duty director Dave Anthony called for the feds to station plainclothes soldiers in American schools . . .
I was happy he got the plainclothes part right. Not that anyone would know that the soldier dude was the soldier dude, right? That aside, huh? To evoke the spirit of PBS’ Mr. Roger’s Neighborhood, can you say “Posse Comitatus“? Sure you can! Specifically . . .
Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus [ED: Latin for “power of the county”] or otherwise to execute the laws shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
Not to mention Title 10 of the United States Code . . .
The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.
Even though Congress and Bush the Younger modified the Posse Comitatus Act in 2006 to allow the Prez to deploy federal troops to “restore public order” in a wide range of “emergencies,” that measure was repealed. Thankfully. For the simple reason that Americans don’t like the idea of a military dictatorship.
So, basically, no. No undercover soldiers in schools.
Equally, as I said above, a single armed defender (without a rifle to hand, presumably) is scant protection against a determined, coordinated and/or multiple person attack on a school. Of course, any man who spend a large chunk of his career developing a game wherein a single armed defender saves the country/world might be forgiven for playing One Man Army in his head. Well, the idea.
And ideas are powerful! According to Mr. Anthony, they’re irresistible! With the right marketing . . .
The Call of Duty author said he anticipated objections. “The public won’t like it, they’ll think it’s a police state,” he said. But, he went on, “All of these are solvable problems.” Anthony’s address, which was punctuated by videos depicting such future threats as a U.S. drone hacked by Iran and a hotel massacre in Las Vegas, included repeated exhortations to policymakers to learn from the examples of corporations and creative artists in selling potentially unpopular ideas. “When we have a new product that has elements that we’re not sure how people will respond to, what do we do as a corporation?” he asked. “We market it, and we market it as much as we can—so that whether people like it or not, we do all the things we can to essentially brainwash people into liking it before it actually comes out.”
Fascism much? The quote reminds me of soon-to-be-ex Attorney General Eric Holder’s famous comments about brainwashing people to give up their guns. Jokers to the left, clowns to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you. And they call us extremists. [h/t JT]
An elitist prick is an elitist prick whether left or right. They both have in common a disdain for the “little people.” And to them you’re all little people with no right to be free from their divinely inspired guidance and wisdom.
(no offense to short dudes or midgets, etc.)
F this guy.
Also explains how they can sell millions upon millions of what is essentially the same game year after year after year.
You want it, it’s awesome! Rock music! Celebrities! Hot women! Cool dudes! It’s awesome!!!!!! Buy, buy, buy, buy!!!!! Did I mention all of your friends will be buying it? No friends? No problem! Make friends online tea-bagging each other and learning new racial slurs.
I have no doubt that fascism can be marketed well enough to go mainstream. In many ways it already has.
I seem to recall that fascism was quite successfully marketed and went mainstream in a few European countries in the 1930’s.
And there’s a rebranding effort underway here in the U.S.
Facism – It’s what’s good for you.
You can always Swat each other.
Hey, I played COD, I am now qualified to be on SEAL Team 6! High fives!
Uh oh… I’m getting a sense for what the next COD is going to be about…
(when you play multiplayer your enemies are annoying middle schoolers anyway, might as well go meta on the whole thing)
We have to be careful to consider specific threat profiles.
If the threat profile for a school is one or maybe two spree killers who want to make a name for themselves, parents and staff carrying concealed can radically reduce the casualty count if one of those armed parents or staff are next to the spree killers when they strike. (If the closest armed parents or staff are on the other side of a school, unfortunately one or two spree killers could still wrack-up a pretty large death toll.)
If the threat profile is a team of 6+ attackers with rifles and explosives who assault a school Beslan style, one or two parents or staff with concealed handguns are probably not going to make much of a difference.
We have to face the fact that we cannot do much to stop a group of 6+ heavily armed attackers who have the element of surprise. If the bad guys employ really smart tactics, such a group of bad guys would probably succeed even if a similar force of “good guys” with long guns are on site … again because the bad guys have the element of surprise.
Have you ever watched the NRA Life of Duty videos? Some good information in there, most of the guys are really informative to listen to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FND_N2XZOIM This one is Episode 8 “Were not ready” talks about a training scenario that was put on about a school attack and episode 7 “The worst is on the way” is of a similiar theme.
You’re right, it’s probably better not to have any defense option at all
I support armed parents and staff at schools 1000%. I am merely pointing out that firearms are not magic talismans and a few parents/staff armed with concealed handguns are not capable of stopping the most extreme threat profiles.
TTAG staff … that link in the first paragraph should be spelled “Beslan”, not “Belsen”.
Oh dear. The worst part is that the upcoming COD is all about the worldwide saturation of private paramilitaries under a single banner (for “global security”) rising up against the people who hired them.
How do I irony, Davy?
I could be wrong, but if at anytime you believe that the only way to make people comply with something is to brainwash them, then your idea is probably a bad one. I am of the opinion that good ideas are adopted over time because they are good ideas, no brain washing required.
Hollywood is all about brain washing. They believe that if they simply replay a theme over and over again then it will be just automatically accepted.
God help us all the day we start taking advice from anything associated with Call of Duty. Hasn’t the gun community suffered enough from this garbage?
Consider for a moment that people then took that interest and have become POTG when they became old enough. For some, I’m sure that’s their only introduction. It’s a game and only a game, but it can spark an interest in real life shooting sports.
2001-2002 I was all about Counter Strike.
2008 and on I was all about USPSA.
Mother was “Second Amendment, but”, Father was pro but didn’t press the issue.
A lot of the POTG forget that not everyone of us grew up in the country where shooting guns was a part of life, grew up with people who were in to or owned guns, or even lived in one of the slave states that demonized them. I suffered from all three ailments.
Therefore video games like Call of Duty were the only way for us to get into shooting since none of us had anyone to get us into shooting. Of course Goldeneye .007 for the N64 started it for me for modern guns and Medal of Honor got me in to WW2 guns.
Since America is increasingly urbanizing with many anti’s coming from an urban environment I would think that this will be the only viable way to get people like me in to guns in the future especially the black long guns so demonized.
OK, I agree that these folks should not be US Department of Defense soldiers or that the feds should be involved in this at all. Not only are there Constitutional issues, but other than possibly MPs, soldiers are not trained for that kind of work. But I think the idea of having plainclothes, armed security is not a bad idea. Also, while I am not opposed to having teachers have access to weapons, I do think they need to be trained, not only in the use of the weapons, but also in discussing it with the kids. However, I don’t want my kid’s teacher leaving the classroom to engage a shooter. I want them staying with their kids and protecting them. Just like the ill-advised idea of training airline pilots to carry guns, it makes no sense. It would pull them away from their primary job.
There is not just one, easy fix solution to this. First, schools should have better physical security. No one should be able to walk in without staff acknowledging they should be there. Also, classrooms should have heavy doors that can be locked from the inside.
Second, I think the resource officer idea does have merit. There should be more than one in each school, they should have access to a vest and a high-cap carbine and they should be well trained in shooting and tactics. Could determined killers take them out? Possibly, but most school shootings have been done by amatuer, punk kids who are basically cowards. Just the fact that it would be well known that these resource officers are in the school would be a deterrent. The kid who did that shooting in California posted on his Facebook page that he picked targets where he thought it would be less likely that there were plainclothes people with guns.
Another possibility is volunteers from a state organization, like the Virginia Defense Force. This is an all-volunteer, formal military organization under the governor, distinct from the National Guard. It cannot be nationalized. They are all trained in providing security and many are ex-military. They could easily be trained up for school security. Another possibility is getting volunteer reserve or auxiliary police officers. I would personally volunteer my time for such an assignment. Yet another possibility is have the school district pop for rent-a-cops, but again with special training.
First, who’s supposed to pay for all these armed guards? The liability insurance alone would probably be serious.
The real question, to me anyway, is why anyone wants to put hundreds or even thousands of little people, helpless targets, all in one place. Government “school” is worse than worthless to begin with, and sending children into the indoctrination camps to be easy prey for anyone is nuts.
Take the children out of government schools, and let parents and charitable neighbors take responsibility for their education. Eliminate the coercion and theft. Making those indoctrination camps more and more like maximum security prisons serves no good purpose.
Heavy doors that can be locked from the inside? Great idea, unless there’s a fire.
The option of paying for guards is only one of the options I mentioned. The other two would be volunteer, but because they would be deputized reps of the government, there should not be any incremental liability insurance, any more than if police were stationed in the schools. All I was showing were options. As to the door locks, I said “could be locked” not “would be locked all the time.” A teacher would have the ability to engage the lock if shots were heard or a non-fire alarm were sounded. In the Active Shooter class I took at NRA HQ, they showed how in actual school shootings, the classes that succeeded in barricading doors had a much higher survival probability.
As to the private schooling issue, no one is forced to send their kids to public schools. Any parent can pull them out if they can document an alternative. My parents didn’t send me to public schools and I didn’t send my kids to them. But the fact is that a lot of parents would mess up their kids’ education even worse than public schools are doing if left to their own devices. And neighbors? They would be safer with slave traffickers than with some of my neighbors.
There are plenty of retired military folks around. They already have some weapons training, can follow orders or give them (as needed), and having already been armed at various points in their past, liability should be manageable. All we need is eyes-on alarm-trippers and a delaying force. Let’s start with, say, anyone with ten years of service or more, to pre-screen the 4-and-out short-timers.
I’d volunteer for a couple of shifts per week. Offer to pay me, I might be able to double that and make it a part-time job.
Our children are worth it; the only question is, how to pay for it. I’m pretty sure I could line-item-veto enough crap in the current annual budget to fund it for decades, but some other folks might not agree with my choices…
So the guy who has been so responsible for killing student’s brain cells is now going to save them? Oh the irony!
Ralph, I play lots of games, and my brain cells are perfectly fine.
There’s maybe five left, but those five are in great shape!
My idea stated on TTAG many months ago was simple. Staff members that wished to could be armed. Parent volunteeers could also be armed on site.
I’m a semi retired grandpa with military experience(I have been shot at and I’ve shot back). I’m certain that if the laws were changed enough to allow me and others like me to go to our grandkids and kids schools armed that every school in America could have a decent force of armed personnel on site.
Have the already existing SRO’s(They usually cover only high schools) available to schedule and oversee the volunteers and you would have a working system that would cost little if any more than already being spent.
I agree. Arm all teachers willing to train and tool up. Then, have governors activate the Militia using their own guns.
A couple of armed and trained Daddies inside, possibly in business attire so they can conceal one or more handguns with enough reloads as they patrol.
Then, two rifle-armed volunteers outside on patrol in a car(s), which I hear the Israelis do. Equip them with radios at state expense which can use police-band in emergencies.
I would volunteer in a heartbeat for my son’s school. I’ll bet in Alabama we’d have enough that I’d only have to do it once a month. The legislature could treat it like jury duty as far being excused by employers. except for the radios and possible training, state expense would be minimal.
I disagree with active duty soldiers but if you found the funding for jobless vets then id be all for it.
I agree with this.
Vets are older and a lot need jobs.
As for active duty soldiers… Putting young men with raging testosterone who have not seen many women for 1-4 years in a closed environment full of horny underaged girls is probably not the best idea.
Hell, this goes for the older guys too. A LOT of drill sergeants of both genders have gotten in trouble for messing with Privates, and that isn’t even illegal (just against UCMJ regs) – they’re all 18.
It has got to be tempting when hot young things are throwing themselves at you at least 5 days a week.
On top of all that, soldiers get nailed by civilian courts AND USMJ for screwing up with the law.
While you are correct, putting young horny soldiers fresh out of highschool in uniform in highschool is a bad idea, this big notion that “they haven’t seen many women in 1-4 years” is completely false. They’re in the army, not prison. After basic while at your actual duty station you only at work 10-12 hours a day and have most weekends off. You can leave post whoever you want to even during the duty day and everyone goes out to the bars even on work nights. That and military bases are covered with civilian female employees and female soldiers.
All American- I am assuming you’re in the 82nd.
I was airborne too. Spent a few years in the 504. Strike Hold.
Maybe your experiences are different than mine, but between DRF1, field exercises, details, ridiculous All American week practice, etc etc etc, I didn’t exactly have much free time except for weekend. On weekends, I didn’t even bother trying to meet girls in Fayetteville. It seemed like a lot of the nice girls moved away ASAP after getting out of highschool.
I find it telling most of my battle buddies were dating strippers or chicks who had mysterious tan lines on their ring fingers.
On top of that, when I was active duty the Riggers and other female soldiers were told to stay away from infantry guys. The only time I ever saw girls was when we went to a battle buddy’s house about 1.5 hours away or to Charlotte. However, that wasn’t possible one DRF1 and even if we wanted to go we needed a pass. We weren’t getting a pass 90% of the time, usually because our chain of command wanted to pull some sort of surprise inspection over the weekend.
The gist of all this typing is that (and your experiences may be different) I only really got out of dodge about once every 5 or 6 weeks. That’s it.
So yeah. I didn’t see a lot of girls. Most of the girls even in the mall in Fayetteville looked like they were underage (and would probably move away as soon as they hit 18) or had been smoking since they were 11.
Of the guys I knew who actually got laid (who weren’t married or in a serious relationship), most were nasty mo fos and would nail anything female that was alive. This supports my argument above that it would not be a good idea to station (young) soldiers in schools – at least without screening. 🙂
And let’s face it – if soldiers were going to be stationed at schools, they would probably be 11B. After 9/11, every 11B battallion on Bragg was called up to do 12 hour guard shift details at mission critical locations.
So yeah… you’re right that military guys aren’t exactly in prison, and shoot, POGs can even go to college. But 11B guys don’t get out much. And on deployment, it’s a UCMJ violation to even have a playboy or be in a room alone with a female.
I’ll reiterate that I don’t think it would be a good idea to place young soldiers in schools, but I think E6 or above would probably work, though.
On a whim, I looked up some data on school shootings. the Gun-Free School Zone Act passed in October 1990. I looked at school shootings for the 14 years previous to that (Oct ’66-Oct’90) compared to school shootings from the 14 years since (Oct’90-Oct’14). I discounted those that occurred at colleges/universities (as those are not covered by this act as I understand it), and I discounted deaths that were self-inflicted (either standalone suicides, or when a shooter killed themselves to end their ‘rampage’). The bottom line is for the 14 years BEFORE our schools were protected by the Gun-Free School Zone Act, there were 43 shooting incidents at school with 51 fatalities. In the 14 years that our schools have been ‘Gun-Free Zones’ (aka, target-rich environments), there have been 57 incidents with a total of 125 fatalities. This during a period where violent crime rates overall have been falling dramatically. Take this data as you will.
Very good, but I assume you mean 24 years…
Haha… yes, it was 24 years. The numbers of shootings/fatalities and years listed are correct, except that I somehow managed to type 14 instead of 24 like three times without catching it. Thanks. Thats what I get for posting from work on a Saturday.
I’m sure there are countless armed people who would volunteer 4+ hours a day to stand there and secure grounds. We don’t need money for it.
^This. But with screening and only parents.
Teachers/Admin defend your own danm post. Not marginally “qualified” cop “resource officers”. And certainly not active troops. The “Call of Duty” dumbass is a retard “gamer”. Next he has a truckdriver game and advises on logistics and operating a semi?
This country has a piddly tiny force of actually combat arms troops (Infantry/Armor) going to set them up on an OP in a near zero probability environment (a school)? Or are you going to take troops/troopettes from the 793rd Messkit repair BN, 641st Med Bn, 123rd Truck Co and make them guards? Not even a laughable idea. Stay in Hollywoodland bozo.
I’m sure qualified trainers would be glad to train these teachers that want to carry concealed. And do it for free. Give them in depth training, more than what most people get for concealed carry. Teach them to work in groups, to secure buildings instead of cowering in classrooms. How to confront an armed individual determined to do harm to children and stop them. I’m sure the people at Gunsite and Thunder Ranch could come up with a proper training course for a specific school based threat.
Of course, none of this matters until the teachers are legally allowed to carry in schools, with training.
It’s the guy who made COD’s opinion on security in schools…….why is this newsworthy?
I especially like how schools think locking their doors during school hours will stop someone from entering just because the only way to open them is by pushing on the bar from the inside. It’s as if they don’t realize that most school doors either have a large window in it, or are little more than framed glass with hinges. Or am I the only one that didn’t know that door locks activate impenetrable force fields?
Arm the teachers, let the parents be armed, it’s called target hardening. An SRO is better than nothing, but realistically would be the first one targeted in a school shooting
I’m more of a Demon’s/Dark Souls guy. I have a 1085 carbon steel Oakeshott type XIV medieval broadsword I’m willing to carry for the cause (oh and my 9mm).