“Update, 9:20: The Watershed Post has confirmed that the armed man took two Bovina residents hostage earlier today. A local official confirmed that both hostages were held at gunpoint, but later escaped unhurt. As of 9:20pm, the gunman is alone in the house on Pink Street, and the standoff with law enforcement is ongoing.” So, just like Boston after the Marathon bombing suspects were on the loose, the entire Delaware County town of Bovina—all 40 square miles of it—is in “lockdown.” “At 2pm, the Delaware County Office of Emergency Management issued instructions to all Bovina residents via NY Alert to ‘remain indoors and lock all doors.’ Another NY-Alert was issued at at 2:26pm asking Bovina residents to remain inside until further notice. The instructions to Bovina residents to remain indoors are still in effect as of 6:30pm this evening. ‘We decided, ‘Let’s just do this safely,’ the Delaware County Sheriff’s dispatcher said.” Yeah, martial law should always be implemented with public safety in mind. I wonder if any of the town’s 633 residents have an unregistered AR. [h/t WB]
“We decided, ‘Let’s just do this safely,’ the Delaware County Sheriff’s dispatcher said.” Yeah, martial law should always be implemented with public safety in mind.”
Of course, we wouldn’t want anyone to see how this is dealt with. I understand the safety issue. But closing a whole town because of one man?..And is this an order that if not followed has any legal ramifications?..or are they just asking nicely?
Either way, what better way to panic a town than to tell them to hunker down because a crazy is on the loose.
Just wait until they start making up reasons… and the lockdown becomes permanent.
Why isn’t anyone challenging the legality of these orders? Any of the lawyers on here have an opinion?
I would assume these “lockdowns” are not legally enforceable barring a declaration of martial law; this is based on knowledge of Ohio law, god knows what New York has on the books. I suppose the police could attempt to arrest you on an Obstructing Official Business charge, but good luck having that stick in court.
Nobody in Bovina goes outside after dark anyway. It upsets the cows.
Ralph,
If the seizure of a person can be defined as:
“Government interference with a person’s freedom of movement, where a reasonable person would not feel free to leave”
then wouldn’t this type of mass lockdown constitute a seizure under the law? In other words, aren’t they detaining an entire city when they pull stunts like this?
If the Travon Martin
miscarriage of justicetrial (miscarriage because charges were filed, that is) taught me anything it’s that our current definition of the average “reasonable” person has a pretty low standard. I say this because for MONTHS I listened to the same dronelike argument:“The 911 operator told him not to get out of the car!”
I suppose to those “reasonable” folks, a 911 operator’s command has the force of law, which it doesn’t. That tells me that the average “reasonable” person truly believes that ANY command from ANY government employee should be followed as a lawful command. I won’t digress into how sorry that makes us as a people. However, it forces me to believe that if law enforcement (i.e. government) tells the town to stay indoors, then the average “reasonable” person would not feel free to leave. Wouldn’t they then be effectively “seized in place” en masse? How does THAT work under the fourth amendment?
What else is a 911 operator going to say? To pursue and open the municipality to a lawsuit? She’s working off a script the layers gave her.
I don’t take any issue with the instructions. In 99% of scenarios it’s probably sound advice, although the operator isn’t present and can’t ever truly achieve situational awareness. However, a 911 operator is not a LEO nor do they have the authority to give commands that you must follow under the law. What is scary is that sheep are willing to assume that ANY command given to them by ANY government employee is something that must be obeyed. Not a good thing.
One of these days, these Bolsheviks are going to try this suspended 4th Amendment crap in a town with “real people” and the shtf will occur kind of like at Ruby Ridge only on an Urban Scale.
If the guy is in a house, I see no particular reason for anyone else to need to “shelter on place.”
Yeah, you think they’d be crowing, “It’s cool, we found him, he isn’t going anywhere.”
I don’t know, but just to be on the safe side I’m going to call my boss in the morning and tell him I can’t come to work until it’s safe out there, and I don’t even live in the state of New York. Better safe than sorry I say.
If the cops tell me to stay in my house and the Chinese havent invaded or there isnt a civil war going on in the US they can go to hell.
And even if the Chinese invanded you should still be allowed out and about with the ability to protect yourself. This is just more nurse maid crap for the masses that dont want to take responsibility for themselves.
An invasion by foreign troops or a rebellion are the two conditions outlined in the Constitution for Congress to declare martial law. Everything else is BS.
What if it’s the marshal law that causes the rebellion?
Sometimes the only appropriate response is to look them in the eye and grab your junk.
Is this a mandatory thing or just a butt protecting public announcement the powers that be put out to cover the elected officials in this area?
“All residents are asked to remain indoors and lock all doors”
It is not an order, it is a request. I am not a lawyer, but I don’t think they can force everyone to stay inside. If there is a medical emergency, or you need to get your meds, or go to the hospital, or airport or whatever, they cannot detain you.
The thing is, the vast majority of the people will follow the request.
I would love to see the case if they arrested someone not following the “request”
Legal or not, you can be sure that if you are outdoors and they shoot you, the trigger happy cops will not be punished.
Why be so trusting. You could be inside your house when they shot you and would never be punished.
Bingo.
I’ve worked as a leo for a few years now and only once did we declare a civil emergency in the city I work in, due to a natural disaster. There was a mandatory evacuation, which not everyone followed. The ones who didn’t follow the “orders” didn’t get arrested; the only difference was that the roads were closed and 911 would not work.
I thought guns were illegal in NY and all thoes tough laws were meant to keep crimminals from getting guns? Must have bought it from some redneck in the gun loving south.
As far as I can tell neither in this case or in Boston were you required to stay indoors. It was a request. The idiot dispatcher who described it as martial law doesn’t know what martial law is. However, given the police penchant for shooting middle aged Hispanic ladies when something like this is going on, it’s probably a good idea to stay off the streets so you don’t end up having your car perforated by over anxious police.
The TTAG staff added the martial law comment, not the dispatcher.
Clearly you never watched the videos people in Boston posted online. There was no “request” in Boston.
Not everybody stayed home. There were people walking around town.
And that somehow changes the fact that plenty of people had guns pointed at them while being ordered to close their windows and doors and to stay inside? What about all the people who were forced out of their homes at gunpoint and then searched?
It was a request; like when that nice fellow on the street points a gun at your chest and asks for your wallet. You have the option of refusing his request.
Sounds like the PD budget is up for review. Condition Red. Red ink.
Just reading the comments on this and this thought struck me:
How likely is it that this new tactic is to limit the number of video recorders present at these events?
Damn good question.
Eh, I don’t think there’s much to that. They usually set the cordons so far back that video recorders wouldn’t see anything anyway.
Legal butt covering in case a bystander gets shot would be my first guess. However, desensitizing the public to this kind of thing may be a side purpose for people at some levels in the chain of command.
Gee,what if the victims had a gun,they wouldn’t have to”escape” their own home and likely bad guy turned around or dead.Oh that’s right you can’t exercise your constitutional right there Sooo “children go to your room right now and don’t come out til we tell you to !
A bit of a side point here, but I heard something about Newark, NJ and I was curious whether it was Newark or Camden was the one known for being the worst crime rate (on earth?). I thought I’d share a couple excerpts from Wikipedia.
Newark: ‘In 1996, Time magazine ranked Newark “The Most Dangerous City in the Nation.”… In 2011, Newark recorded 90 homicides, after experiencing 86 homicides in 2010. Overall, there was a 6% increase in crime numbers over the previous year, including a rise in carjackings for the third straight year. Along with the increase in crime, the Newark Police Department increased its recovery of illegally owned guns in 2011 to 696, up from 278 in 2010.’
Camden: “Morgan Quitno has ranked Camden in the top ten most dangerous cities in the U.S. since 1998, when they first included cities with populations below 100,000… On October 29, 2012, the FBI announced Camden was ranked first in violent crime per capita of cities with over 50,000 residents, surpassing Flint, Michigan. In December 2012, Camden residents surrendered approximately 1,137 firearms to two local churches over a two-day period.”
Looks like those gun buy back programs are making a big difference!
Watch Cory Booker get a senate seat as thanks for a job well done as Newark mayor!
Lock down? This should take 8 cops or less. He’s only got 7 rounds!
When I was in Texas in the 70’s you would get storm and tornado warnings thru the EBS. Sheltering in place was a common caution. Nobody, especially the Texans I knew, considered this a sign of an out of control government.
This wasn’t a case of a giant storm that could wipe out entire cities, this was one guy with a firearm and a mental illness. You want to be dumb and play in the storm thats dandy, but you should have the same right to go about your business during a standoff.
I don’t believe either example, the storms in Texas or the New York announcement were Mandatory. Getting excited by the local government advising you to shelter in place amkes as much sense as getting upset about any other advice that doesn’t carry the weight of law. It really is a non issue.
None of these actions carry force of law. Doesn’t mean the cops still won’t shoot you.
Ya, but Tornadoes and Storms are hugely unpredictable, uncontrollable, and can easily effect the entire city/town. This is a lone gunman in a house surrounded by police. He can have absolutely zero influence beyond the distance that his bullets can travel. Shutdown the neighborhood to protect the neighbors and police? Sure, entirely acceptable and expected. Shut down the entire town? Ridiculous and unnecessary.
…but what if that one guy was part of a larger group of guys who intended to terrorize the entire town and take over more than just one house? You never know, it could happen, and so just to be on the safe side they’re going to need everyone to stay in their houses until the police show up, and then let the cops in the house just to make sure that everyone is safe…and maybe just take a look around for any unregistered AR’s.
Check your facts. This lone gunman was armed, on the loose and looking for ANOTHER hostage situation, since the first didn’t work out for him. When they had the situation fully contained they lifted the lockdown, but told us to remain cautious. My three small children are grateful to the authorities who did their very best to keep our town safe by notifying us promptly about a dangerous situation and telling us the best to keep our families safe. Namely, not allowing an armed madman who is looking for hostages into your home. How can this possibly construed as bad?
What idiot would tell his/her “Small children” anything about this guy/incident? Trying to set up a lawsuit for emotional damage to their little minds?
They were aware of the situation for many reasons, dozens of emergency vehicles speeding down our country road all day long being the first. The clincher though was when their father came home from work to answer the call for firefighter assistance on the scene.
Nice name calling, though. I always pay attention to the opinion of the person who has nothing to say so they put people down.
1 guy 1 gun, and whole town held at bay, all day?
I’d go outside anyways. “Shelter in place” doesn’t work for me unless their is a foreign invasion (in which case I’d be fighting against the foreigners), or a rebellion (no comment).
At some point, you just gotta live your life whether the government approves or not.
The Cops like the ‘Martial Law Thing’ because that’s the ‘Fire At Will On Civilians’ THING! For them- Possibly staged maybe? If there are any door to door searches or gun confiscations then it ‘was staged- The Locals and the Military and the Government are disarming Americans like ‘crazy’ everywhere- Soon have the Country will be disarmed and the only shots fired will be the method of death for any that say ‘NO You Can’t Come In, or NO You Can’t Search My House, NO You Can’t Rape Me Or My Children, NO, You Can’t Rob Me With The System, NO You Can’t Shoot My Pets [for fun and because you’re trigger happy]{and} No, I am not giving up my guns- For me I say if anyone steps into one’s property and especially to one’s door, then if not invited and the feet start thru, cut those legs off or look higher- One wants to be a ‘Bully Bad Ass’, then one needs to know that Sam Colt made more than one-I have a Video about a Cop Sniper taking out a 15 Year old boy who was threatening to commit suicide and the Cop Sniper shot the boys Genitals off for fun- All the Murdering, Rape, Robbery, Safe Blowing by Uniforms, and they simply say stay in your homes until further notice??And ‘wait for what’? YOUR TURN- wes thompson
You frighten me, and more than just a little bit.
Its well past the point where its a few bad apples. Good cops are the exception, not the rule. The whole system is designed to either weed out or change the good ones. They love this sh!t.
“Assault weapons” don’t have to be registered until April 15, 2014.
You really think that would stop them?
I’m sure there wasn’t much fear because everyone would be armed ready to defend their homes if necessary…oh wait…this is New York…
Even though it’s been said a number of times, it’s clear there are still many people ignorant of the fact that New York is a pretty red state outside of NYC.
the comments are the scariest part:
Jacquie Lempka · Top Commenter
Excuse me, this is the USA and we can not be DICTATED to, or CONTROLLED by our government…LOCKDOWN? hmmmm must be another Obama test going on! WE THE PEOPLE HAVE HAD ENOUGH!
Reply · 3 · Unlike · Follow Post · 12 hours ago
Chrissy Reynolds
yes this is the USA and you are advised to lock down… you can still go out if you want just like you can when they close the roads… I just hope and pray if you choose to go out you are not a victim…
Reply · 8 · Like · 12 hours ago
Mary F Hickey McKeon · Top Commenter
If he has a gun(s) then it is much safer to obey the law in this case rather than go outdoors or drive passed this house. It is for the community’s protection. Any reasonable person should realize to stay indoors in cases like this.
Reply · 7 · Like · 12 hours ago
Janine Bray · Works at Retired Walton CSD
I’m happy to have been advised to get indoors – with 7 kids – neighbors and families, I am grateful.
Reply · 3 · Like · 11 hours ago
Melvin Paul Harrington · State Fire Instructor at NYS Division of Homeland Security and Emergency Services
apparently you dont care for your own safety.
Reply · 1 · Like · 11 hours ago
Julie Baker Morse · Follow · Top Commenter · Works at Freelance Writer/Political Blogger, Open Salon
Melvin, I think that people just mean that, in a free society, it’s better for the government to request that people remain inside, for their own safety and for the safety of responders, than for the government to ORDER the People to remain inside.
Reply · 1 · Like · Edited · 10 hours ago
Lorelle Gifford
Julie Baker Morse The police can’t win with some people. Warn you to stay in and it is too controlling (God forbid you be protected)…don’t tell you about it and they are withholding information….someone gets hurt and they get sued and held responsible when some idiot expresses their “freedom” to get in the way of a potentially dangerous and violent situation.
Reply · 2 · Like · 10 hours ago
I can tell you as a resident of Bovina with three small children I was happy to be notified and ASKED to keep my doors locked. A short blurb about the situation on the AP wire does not really give the information you need to judge a situation properly, or make these kinds of comments. This person was on the loose, armed and clearly dangerous after holding two people hostage. I would much rather keep my family safe than put them in danger just to show “the man” that he’s “not the boss of me”.
Oh, and one more tidbit you wouldn’t learn from the article – this is a large hunting and farming community. The majority of people who live here have guns in their home and know how to use them. They still choose to put the safety of their families first and follow the request of the authorities, people who are trained to deal with a situation such as this.
Thanks, the perspective of someone who was actually there adds quite a bit to the discussion.
I am deaf, I did not hear the announcement.
Winter Park, Florida. Mid to early nineties.
There was a disturbed, read crazy as a bedbug, individual with an arsenal (Yes, I use that word advisedly. 6 – 10 guns of every type.) and a car filled with explosives. Got him stopped on a major artery (Lee Road just east of I-4, if anyone knows the area.) WP PD shut down about a two – three block radius. Culmination – he blew up the car. A police officer was approaching the vehicle at the time, and was seriously injured IMS.
Hero cops, man. Risking their very lives to protect the community. Unfortunately, that breed seems to be more and more scarce.
Point of the anecdote? THIS is how you handle that sort of threat to the community. Not by locking it down.
For all you wimps who think the cops shooing you into your homes is a good thing – “Those who would surrender their liberty for the sake of their security, deserve neither.” to paraphrase Ben Franklin, to busy to look it up.
“oh, protect us great nanny state! We are helpless without you.” When they are shoving you into the cattle cars, hope you remember this little warning. The state cannot dominate you without your capitulation. Disgusted by how many are already there.
A non mandatory police advisory to stay in side is a direct link to the cattle cars and showers? A bit overwrought, aren’t we?
I’d make it a point to put on my roller blades and go up and down the streets, in the general neighborhood where the guy was holed up for good measure.
Basically, this was a non story. Yes there’s a gunman and police action. But the whole “Lockdown” part is a bit of PT Barnum. The cops put out an advisory to people to be safe. Armored vehicles were not patrolling to enforce the rules and I’ve heard of no one being hassled for not staying inside.
It’s easy to seperate the thinkers from the panty wetters on this site.
Comments are closed.