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“I don’t think it’s necessarily about nontraceability. It’s more I don’t want anyone to know what I own and that includes the federal and state governments.” – Travis Brunson in ‘Ghost guns’ a growing issue in Florida [via]



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  1. It’s not about nontraceability. I just don’t want to be traced.

    Funny. Of course I do understand what he’s actually saying.

    • Ha! I thought the same thing…I definitely get it too. I guess he means he doesn’t want an untraceable gun for criminal purposes. He wants one for privacy purposes.

  2. They equate (attempting to) regulating firearms and their owners / possessors with regulating firearm use, which they cannot do.

    I could call the ATF&E and tell them I modified a firearm for select fire, and filed off the SN and told them I was going to use it on them, and I could likely get it done before they could interdict me.


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    • The very fact that there exists an 80% lower is proof that you’re trying to skirt around someone who is usurping your liberty. It’s not the ‘solution’ it’s a symptom.

  3. -But, when a “homemade firearm is found at a crime scene, it means investigators are virtually left with a dead end,” said Mary Harmon Salter with the ATF.-

    So what happens when a person is murdered with a 2×4? Oh, the investigators need to find means, motive, and opportunity. Poor people have to do their jobs.

    • I wonder what the statistics are on how often the gun left at a crime scene is actually traced to the person who committed the crime. Im guessing it has to be vanishingly close to zero.

      • If it was as useful as claimed you would never hear the end of the “success stories”, that you don’t tells you and me everything we need to know.

      • It is cumbersome, but hardly impossible. The thing is that they don’t trace guns BACK, they trace them FORWARD from the manufacturer, to the dealer, and then to the first purchaser. Thjis does not work too well with old guns, but heh, it’s something. The real problem is that it is difficult if not impossible to trace forward beyond the first purchaseer. Often guns are sold years earlier in a private sale with no documentation, or guns have been lost or stolen before they make it to the ultimate crime scene. It is rare that traces result in further criminal charges, but it does happen. For example. the rifles used by the San Bernardino shooters were traced to a family member of the male shooter, who had purchased the rifles in what the feds allege was a straw sale. ?That person (a cousin, I think, or in-law of some type) has been charged. But you are right, in the vast majority of cases, the trace is absolutely pointless, and I have never ever seen an explanation as to why it is done except perhaps in a vain hope that it will be traced to the shooter that left it at the scene. But when they know who the shooter is, it is an exercise ion government waste of resources.

    • “So what happens when a person is murdered with a 2×4?”

      The detectives have to make the rounds of the lumber yards in the area.

      • Can’t they just log into the ATM camera across the street, download the video, give it to the nerds in the lab while pointing at the grainy outline that you think might be a person and saying “enhance that right there.”

  4. “It all starts with an 80 percent receiver that holds 80 percent of the gun together.”
    That’s some funny $h!t right there. Gotta love “journalists.”

    “But, when a “homemade firearm is found at a crime scene, it means investigators are virtually left with a dead end,” said Mary Harmon Salter with the ATF.”
    Why do these morons insist on clinging to the fantasy that serial numbers solve crimes? Do they really think gang bangers buy their guns from FFLs?

    • I had to go look at the source NBC article again.

      Because no journalist would be so stupid and no article lacking research where a claim that an 80% receiver holds 80% of a gun together. I was wrong.

    • Living in a gun friendly area, my local station broadcast an edited version of this tape, eliminating the derp and actually being accurate in its description of the issue. But what was left unanswered was this: Mexican cartels buy unfinished lowers in bulk and then ship them to Mexico to be completed. And I’m like, “So?” Why does the ATF care about what the cartels are doing in Mexico? It is not as if these guns are being used in crimes very often in the US. Oh, but GEE! They could sell them to TERRORISTS! Umm, OK, yeah right. As if terrorists couldn’t do the same here.

      What we are really seeing is another attempt by the ATF to try to ban 80% lowers as a threat to national security. What the ATF fails to understand is that terrorists will get guns, 80% or not, through the black market, same as any other criminal, and it is not the purchase of a firearm that will lead to the stopping of any planned attack.

      • “What we are really seeing is another attempt by the ATF to try to ban 80% lowers as a threat to national security.”

        Maybe this is why so many of us voted for Trump. If he really means to drain the swamp it’s time to get started.

    • Yea, I heard that line and, even though the bar is pretty low, I still find it hard to believe that they got it this wrong. From the video: “It all with this…” show M&P 15 on video “…an 80 percent receiver that holds 80 percent of the gun together.”


      Too bad they didn’t bother to reach out to an ATF representative to clarify what an 80 percent receiver is. Oh wait.

      So much fail.

  5. Well, you have to arrest someone after a murdering rampage. Numbers help them do that, otherwise befuddlement abounds and satan rules the day.

    • Nope. Serial numbers are practically never used to solve crimes. Canada stopped their long gun registry because it didn’t help them solve crimes. A gun that is traceable to you is never left at a crime scene, criminals are stupid but they are not that stupid. Don’t just call me names. The number of crimes solved by finding a crime gun and tracing it by it’s serial number to a responsible party absent other evidence is not roughly zero.

  6. “The process is not quick and easy; it’s certainly much more expensive than buying a complete firearm”

    Is it though? I though part of the draw on buying an 80% was that if you had the tools or access to them they were cheaper to assemble?

    • Well if YOU have the fancy expensive tools already awesome. I sure don’t. So the quoted statement sure holds true for me.

      • You can actually do an polymer lower with a hand drill. There was a video showing just that. An aluminum probably requires a drill press, but a cheap drill press is under $100. You do not need a fancy CNC machine to have a fully functional firearm.

        • A handheld router with the right kind of bit and a jig that you can buy for about $30 will work just fine for an aluminum lower. (Or so I’ve been told by a coworker who plans to do it that way.)

    • I wouldn’t say a router and a jig were especially expensive tools. No an 80% lower is definitely not cheaper but the money you save by just buying a receiver isn’t that significant in the grand scheme of building a rifle that will cost several hundred dollars.

  7. I came from MA where there is a state registry, so I’m sort of accustomed to the gov knowing what I have.

    Fortunately, they haven’t pulled any NY / CA shit yet: “thanks for registering your guns, this type is now illegal, turn them in or sell them out of state”.


  8. “Ghost guns” are becoming the other boogeyman right alongside the “gun show loophole”. It must really flummox the anti-gun crowd that, apparently, the most homemade firearm is the AR-15. Even in California, guys were/are building their own AR-15’s as fast as they can get the parts. The commies in the Legislature passed SB-1407 and Gov. Moonbeam signed it this year. It takes effect Jan. 1, 2017, requiring home builders of firearms to obtain a Serial Number from the State DoJ for the receiver of a homemade firearm. That takes the fun out of 80% AR receivers…

    • “That takes the fun out of 80% AR receivers” CA is 65% democrat and that’s the point. Thou shalt have no fun with armaments.

      • EXACTLY! You would be surprised at how many guys I know who have been building AR-15’s here in CA out of 80% lowers over the past ten-fifteen years, yet none of those rifles have turned-up at crime scenes (that I know of, and I would expect, if they did, the left-wing media here would yammer about it for days on end).
        I am thinking “ghost gun” AR-15s built to sell to criminals in CA is a fabricated issue. What a surprise!
        Most guys I have spoken to do it as an act of defiance to “Commiefornia’s” tyrants in Sacramento.

        • “Serial Numbers” will be issued by CA DoJ and probably take six months to infinity to get, so that’s as obscene as anyone could endure.
          Don’t know if they will be letters and numbers or what. FUCA6922692269226922 would only go to one lucky recipient, for example.
          Okay this was supposed to reply to Alex and Curtis, but I FUBAR’d the Reply to. DOH! Sorry!

  9. So you’re here on a gun blog. You buy parts and ammo online with your credit card or PayPal account. You share pictures of your toys on social media. You go to the same range daily, weekly, monthly. And you think that if the Government wanted to know what you had that not having a serial number would keep that info private? This whole “ghost gun” thing is totally ridiculous. Serial numbers on guns at all are ridiculous other than possibly helping with warrantees and historical tracking. What part of shall not be infringed don’t these MF’s get? This whole discussion is just about as ridiculous as needing a $200 tax stamp for a thread adapter.

  10. Yep, tell the entire world that what firearms you have is none of anyone else’s business. Nobody will even THINK that you actually have any. What was that you said, Walter? “Dumbass?” Yeah, pretty much.


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