Dan Zimmerman's Liberty safe via The Truth About Guns
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If you live in and love the firearms lifestyle, you assume the same basic responsibility — to keep your firearms away from people (kids, criminals, crazies) who shouldn’t have access to them. A gun safe will do that job for you, but how to choose one? Here are some helpful tips.

Size Matters

I’ve owned a Liberty touchpad-open gun safe in burgundy-and-brass for 20 years now, and it has sat in the corner of my office, quietly doing its job without complaint all that time. The closest modern equivalent is Liberty’s Presidential Series 25.

Liberty Presidential Series

I also built a hidden gun room once I ran out of storage in the safe. I erred by not buying enough capacity initially.

Reason: What you don’t plan for — or at least I didn’t — was how much other stuff will wind up in the safe. Yes, I have a bunch of firearms in it, but there’s also all our important car and home documents, some cash, other personal documents, some ammo for the firearms in the safe, and assorted other goodies.

Also, my son and daughter have their firearms in the safe as well because they live in gun-restrictive states. They may never be able to possess their existing semi-auto rifles and shotguns unless they move back to Texas, so I’m holding them indefinitely, maybe a lifetime.

Door organizers can help cut down the clutter handguns can cause, but there’s no substitute for volume.

I’d say the smallest safe most gun owners will look at for their storage needs, depending on their situation, is a 24-gun safe, or more accurately, one that holds 24 long guns.

Keeping Things ‘Safe’

A good safe has to be durable enough to withstand the most common types of attacks: removal and sidewall penetration.

To start with the latter, the Liberty has enough sidewall thickness to satisfy me. It’s 7-gauge solid steel, but I believe a minimum of 10- to 11-gauge steel is satisfactory and a lot more affordable. What you’re trying to buy is enough strength that it’s drill-resistant or can fend off someone trying to puncture the sides with other tools, such as an ax or sledgehammer. Hopefully, you don’t store your acetylene torch in the same place as your safe.

Kodiak 20-Gun Long Safe (KSB5928EX-SO)

Plenty of safes from major makers (Liberty Gun Safe 1776 Series 23, the Browning Sporter, and the Kodiak KSB5928EX-SO meet the capacity and side-thickness minimums above and won’t break the bank.

Simple removal is a bigger problem than you might think. If q thief who has targeted you has the means to slide the safe into a pickup bed, then he can open it with more aggressive means at another location.

Liberty 1776 Series 23

I had my safe bolted to the floor on a second story. Someone who wants what’s in it has a tough task of tearing it from the floor and getting it down the stairs. Probably too tough a job for most thieves. (Handgun safes should get the same treatment.)

Of course, that usually suggests professional installation. I had mine moved up the stairs by a local installer and bolted into place on delivery. If you plan to put your safe on the ground floor of your home, you really should have it bolted down, or someone can simply winch it into a vehicle and go to work on it elsewhere. Or, if the safe is light enough, the thieves can even use a hand truck to move it out of the building.

A lawyer I know put two 50-gun safes in his garage, both bolted to the floor, side by side. Effectively, they function as a very-difficult-to-remove 100-gun safe. He bought Browning Medallion Series.

Browning Medallion Series M49T

Next, The Closure

So, you’ve got a big-enough safe with walls that are thick enough to withstand attack. It’s bolted down to prevent it from being kidnapped. Now, how about the door?

You don’t want it to be easy to open, so look at how it is constructed in the crucial areas of locking bolts, hinges, and the lock type.

My Liberty has internal hinges that can’t be gotten to from the outside. Also, the steel door itself is as heavy a gauge as the sides, so there’s no flexing or weakness in the front itself. Also, the door is sunk into the safe body, which makes it more difficult to pry on. Before buying your safe, make sure there’s enough body steel under the door-seal lip itself, and that the edge doesn’t have any flex or wiggle.

Then, consider the bolts that fit into the safe’s body at the top, latch side, and bottom. You want as many locking points as feasible behind the door jamb to keep the door face from simply being ripped off.

Next, you’ll need to choose a manual combination lock, an electronic lock, or a biometric lock. Many shooters favor a mechanical lock because, like the argument over red dots and iron sights, they don’t want a lock powered by batteries that can fail.

Because I intended to be in and out of the safe a lot while I had children in the house, and part of my home-defense firearms were in the safe, I was more worried about how slow the manual lock was to operate, so I chose an electronic model that had a six-digit opening sequence.

I’ve had to change the batteries a few times over the years, which I admit is a PITA because the fragile wires under the keypad pulled loose from the connections, but I go several years between vexations caused by the battery updates. YMMV.

As I’ve viewed safe features over the years, I’ve noticed how various biometric opens have come onto the scene. I’ve tried them on quick-access safes and they’ve generally worked. Frankly, I’m not sold on them yet because I’ve been prevented from opening some safes because of a wonky alignment or dirty fingers. But they do offer speed of entry and allow for storing several fingerprints if you want others to have access to the safe.

Corrosion

Thefts and fires that damage firearms do happen, but both issues are sporadic. Rust is not. You simply must take steps to control corrosion inside your safe or you’ll wind up damaging your firearms.

If you think about it, safes will trap moisture inside because their very design makes ventilation difficult. To combat corrosion, you must clean and dry your firearms before putting them away. That wet duck gun can put water into the air in the safe and affect the other items in there.

TTAG has a few articles on the basics herehere, and here, or search the site for “how to clean your guns” to get a full lineup.

Break-Free Gun Collectors’ Preservation Kit

For guns that will be in the safe for extended periods, clean them as you normally would and apply a long-term solution to protect them. You can find several choices at Brownells, but I like the Break-Free Gun Collector’s Preservation Kit and Boeshield T-9 Waterproof Lube.

Brownells Gun Socks

Using Brownells Gun Socks will protect your guns from scratches and dings going in and out of the safe, and the cloth is treated with silicone that inhibits rust and the fabric wicks moisture away from metal surfaces. Of course, an in-safe dehumidifier is a good idea, too.

Using adjustable shelving and racks in the safe interior can also help keep corrosion down. By separating the various firearms in the safe, it’s easier to keep track of them and keep them away from each other.

Wrapping Up

I didn’t touch on fire-resistant standards for safes because the makers promote many confusing claims about fire ratings, and a better fire safe adds dollars outside the job of preventing unauthorized access. But, in general, better fire protection means a better safe, so if you’re prepared to spend the dollars for enhanced protection against a gun fire, go for it.

With the advice above, you’ll be on the hook for somewhere around $1100 to $1600 for a big-enough heavy-duty safe with a lock style you prefer and a lifetime warranty, because this purchase will likely be with you for that long. There are both American-made models and foreign units in a color range from matte black to gray to cream white, whichever you prefer.

And you can improve from there. But even if you can’t buy the “best” safe possible, then buy something. Securing your firearms is a responsibility all gun owners should accept. In fact, some states, such as California, mandate criminal penalties for criminal storage of a firearm.

So don’t be “that guy” who didn’t take the right steps to keep the wrong people from getting your guns. Along with your safe, you’ll get some peace of mind along with your new gun storage.

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58 COMMENTS

  1. Sturdy manual tumbler. No electronics. Raised a couple of inches from the concrete floor by being placed on ceramic pavers, to avoid possible water damage or leech. In a discrete location that doesn’t draw the eye. It’s not a Picasso to show off…it’s a safe to guard your valuables.

    And for Pete’s sake, no gadgetry like an interior motion-detected security camera linked via wifi to your phone. Did I mention no electronics?

    • I Haz a Question,

      Raised a couple of inches from the concrete floor by being placed on ceramic pavers, to avoid possible water damage or leech.

      I mixed and installed a 12-inch high block of concrete to serve as the “foundation” for my modest gun safe. That block of concrete significantly reduces the chances of water ever getting into my safe. Perhaps more importantly, anyone wishing to remove my safe and take it away will have to handle the additional weight of that extra concrete since my safe is bolted into the giant concrete block.

      • Ah yes, bolted. I forgot to mention the bolts. Mine is bolted at multiple points to the wall’s studs with heavy lag screws. To remove the safe, a thief (or group of, due to the sheer size and weight) would need to literally destroy the entire section of wall.

      • I did the same thing. Lived in a house that flooded the basement when I was young and I’m not letting my stuff get ruined like that.

        I even had the sense to pour the slab wide enough for the second matching safe I purchased last year.

      • Bolted to the slab, but the house floor had been 3 feet under water before I bought it, have a $15 waterproof box for papers, cash and jewelry won’t be damaged, guns will need immediate cleaning. But if I knew the house was going to flood, I would still keep the guns in the safe rather than carrying them all around in the car. I anticipate largest loss would be ammo, which I *would* remove given time. I live on a lake, normally have several days warning if it will get close to flooding. Electronic lock is fine, I keep spare batteries on top of the safe. I would welcome a one-foot base just to lift the safe up where it’s easier to access. Concerning internals, most places which sell safes also have the plastic coated steel “S” shaped holders for holding handguns under shelves, really saves a lot of shelf space.

        • Your safe set up sounds good. But I suggest you store your ammo in water tight cans. It could flood living next to a lake. But your ammo in rubber sealed cans, with a desiccant pack, would be dry.
          It’s how I store my all my ammo.

    • Going with some Underwriter Laboratory standards is a good place to start with safes, bypass the sheet metal crap. Fire rating is more important than flood rating unless it’s in a basement or you live in a flood prone area.

      Paper and electronics, like thumb drives, should be kept in a secondary fire resistant container.

      I wouldn’t use anything less than a TL-30 if someone intends to put even a modest amount of valuables in it. Good rule is that 10% of the safe contents should be spent on the safe. Got $50,000 inside? A minimum of $5,000 should be spent on the safe.

      If it can’t survive a UL standard then it’s probably not worth the money.

    • “…no gadgetry like an interior motion-detected security camera linked via wifi to your phone. Did I mention no electronics?”

      Why not, as a secondary layer? I have a Liberty with a sensor inside. It texts my phone when the door is opened, when the temp gets too high (we went the house fire route before I had this safe), or if it’s moved. I’m not depending on that device to prevent theft. So, what’s the big deal?

      (I did chose a dial lock as I didn’t want to depend on an electronic one.)

  2. Firearm storage, like everything in life, involves balance and trade-offs.

    In my opinion the objective of secure firearm storage is nothing more and nothing less than simply ensuring that:

    1) small children
    — and —
    2) smash-and-grab thieves

    are unable to quickly and easily access your firearms.

    A resourceful and determined thief WILL get your firearms if he/she has enough time. And exceedingly few safes will protect your contents from a full-on home/structure fire in the time it takes most local fire departments to arrive at your home and extinguish the fire.

    • Agree which is why I just have a cheapo locker for long guns. It serves the purpose for now. If thieves managed to get something, it would be covered under homeowners insurance. At this point in time, if I’m going to invest $2k, it will be for firearms, ammo, targets.

    • If I ever build another home or have to remodel the one I have, I will be installing a heat activated sprinkler system in the kitchen and the garage to keep down the fire risks.

      I’m surprised somewhere with strict laws hasn’t already made that a building code for new construction, but it’s just a good idea and really doesn’t cost much at all.

      • For residential construction some local municipalities do require it by law but it is usually to provide whole house protection. Sprinklers installed solely in the kitchen or garage offer zero spread protection to the surrounding home. If your garage doesn’t have it already, it should have min. 5/8″ thick firecode (type X) gypsum board at the walls & ceiling to slow down fire spread to the rest of the house.

      • Oh goody, more regulations.
        Like houses aren’t expensive enough.
        No problem though, maybe the gubmint will make it FREE with the magic money tree (i.e. my wallet).

        • To be clear, I wasn’t advocating for more rules. I personally think it’s a good idea for someone to do it and surprised the government hadn’t tried to “fix” it yet.

          I’m more of a do it first and ask forgiveness later kind of guy. That’s the way it is out in the sticks where I’m at.

  3. A significant consideration in a gun safe: how much it weighs and whether or not your structure can handle the weight. And weight bearing capacity applies to both the floor where your safe will reside and any stairs that installers have to climb to install and/or remove your safe. (And a corollary to this consideration: potentially locating your safe in a less-than-desirable location that IS capable of supporting your safe.)

    I am nearly certainly that more than one installation crew has had the extremely unpleasant experience of stairs collapsing underneath them while attempting to move a gun safe up/down stairs.

    Keep in mind that a large gun safe could easily weigh on the order of 700 pounds. That also means that you would likely need four BIG guys — probably weighing at least 220 pounds each — to move such a behemoth. Thus, the total weight that your stairs would have to uphold is on the order of 1,500 pounds.

    • Stairs? You’re a braver man than I. Mine’s located on the house’s foundation, on the ground floor.

      Only the heirlooms are in the safe, BTW. I have several go-to guns stashed at various points around the house, both inside and out. Three with ammo at the ready. I’m never outside of ten seconds of grabbing a gun in case of emergency.

      • My safe is dynabolted to rebarred concrete floor. It doesn’t move a millimeter if I grab the inside edge of the door frame and put all my weight into it, after more than a decade.

        Calcium Carbonate dehumidifier takes care of the moisture issues. Just check monthly, pour the collected water down the toilet, and refill the crystals.

        • I use the large hanging closet desiccants, and replace every three months. Even here in SoCal we have humidity (though we don’t know where it comes from because it’s so rare we often get confused when water falls from the sky).

    • If your “large” safe only weighs 700 pounds, it most certainly is not a safe.

      My Graffunder safe is relatively small (60 x 28 x 24 outside dimensions). It was designed to fit into a 1970’s standard size residential hall closet. The empty weight of this little guy is twice that of the “large” safes you guys are talking about.

      Last time it was moved, the young men that worked for the moving company were students at the local college. All of them were either members of the power-lifting team or defensive linemen, or both. The thee of them poured out gallons of sweat rassling it up the basement stairs and into a nook in the basement of my new house.

      It did show me that even using a lot of muscle, special equipment, and know-how it still wouldn’t be quick work to steal even a “small safe”.

      I’ve had this safe for almost 40 years, it was delivered by Uli Graffunder himself.

      http://www.graffundersafes.com/products/safes-weapon.html

  4. IF you have a large collection of valuable guns(& prople know you do!)you’re a target. Look at that dude who advertised he had the most gats in America. Enormous security. Still robbed…I say this as an antique dealer for 25 years-let alone guns. Keep it down low. Hush hush. Do your best…

  5. Back in the day, we had to call a safe company to break into one. It took them almost 3 hours. So that was my first one. A browning pro-steel.
    My second one was a liberty fatboy. Both are still on their shipping pallets to keep them off of the concrete slab.
    Yes, safes are a bit spendy, but peace of mind is priceless.

  6. No safes. Turned a large walk in closet into a firearms room with a triple bolt solid steel door fitted into a steel casing. It has reinforced walls with 4×4 studs on 12″ centers and 3/4″ plywood on both sides of walls and floor. Cost was about the same as a large safe except it holds a lot more. Did have to go under the house and add support pillars due to the added weight of ammo and other goodies. That shit can be damn heavy in quantity. In case of fire Run fast Run Far.

    • That would be my approach as well. I’m handy enough that I could easily add a closet/storage room that would be all but impenetrable for less than what a good size safe would run. Heck, I added an entire bedroom upstairs in my house for about what the author estimated for the (too small) safe in the article.

    • If they know about it…they can get in….given time and tools…like any other safe.
      What about the ceiling?
      Now…1/4″ steel all around…top and bottom…LOL

    • Don’t have to run far unless you are storing powder or explosives…ammo does not explode with terminal force in a fire…
      the ones loaded in guns? maybe…probably?
      loose or boxed ammo? nope…

  7. Haz got it right. No electronics! My Liberty and Browning safes have served me well for years with manual dials. Case in point. Recently I was meeting a friend to do the kind of deal we all love. A private transaction. He had a new/unfired Wilson 1911 I wanted. I was trading a Colt and Ruger 1911 and cash. There was a side deal for a Randall knife trade. Now understand, we both have a two hour drive to the rally point. I’m just getting underway when I get a PX from Chris. His safe won’t open. Batteries aren’t the issue. He changes batteries in all his safes at the same time. All the others would open. I go into a holding pattern. Finally I get the call he got in. No rhyme or reason. It just wouldn’t open.

    Glad to see old format is still here. When it’s gone so am I.

  8. Spin dial lock REQUIRED, Either a high nuclear explosion, like the first event of a foreign invasion, or sun spots and your electronic lock is going to stay locked forever.

  9. Sturdy Safe is a great option. Yes, they have started producing a lot more “fancy” designs, but the core is a solid heavy metal box that is fully customizable. Their base specs (steel thickness) are better than most anything out there. Plus you can add steel and other protection where you want it. My 42w x 72T weighs 1700 lbs with ZERO drywall aka fireproofing. Mine uses ceramic wool blanket. It may not be fancy, but the value is in the construction, not finish.

    When anchoring, use “drop in” anchors. That way you don’t have to lift the safe off and over typical anchor bolts/studs if you need to move at some point. They fit flush into the concrete and you run a bolt in from the top.

    Sturdy safe fan boy maybe…but they work and they are made in the USA. (if CA is still considered part of the Union LOL)

    • We are. And the sleeping masses have been awakened. Loving how many of our Sheriffs are finally saying “nope” to Newsom and his lockdowns.

  10. My problem with gun safes is that they will really only stop ‘run of the mill moron’ type crooks, which admittedly is enough most of the time.
    .
    A thief that goes in knowing there are guns ahead of time can easily grab enough portable, battery powered, tools from the local Harbor Freight, up to and including a backpack-sized oxy-acetylene outfit, to defeat all but the most extremely robust safes.
    .
    Anything small/light enough to move with a dolly (which is still pretty good sized with a good dolly) is easy pickings with nothing more than a 3lbs mini sledge and a battery-powered reciprocating saw.

    • Before someone calls me out on it…
      Obviously a large sturdy safe is much more of a deterrent but by that point the investment is substantial enough the few can/will do it.
      .
      Anchoring to concrete is also another substantial hurdle. Wall studs and floor joists, however can be cut/sectioned pretty quickly and easily with basic power tools.

  11. My takeaways from decades of owning gun safes is this:
    1.) Electronic lock is OK as long as you get the model with the backup passkey. Just pop the keypad off, insert the special key and you’re in. (Pass key should be something like four inches long so the lock is inside the door, not on the outside.) Without the backup manual key, I agree, no electronics. With the backup key is the best of both worlds. Quick to open but can’t keep you out. If the electronics have a lifetime warranty, that’s fine as long as the company still exists.

    2.) Multiple smaller safes is better than one large safe. Easier to hide, splits up your goodies in case they get one open, and easier on the floors, stairs and the movers. We keep only “sacrificial” stuff in the obvious gun safe. The rest is in an old “big” safe behind a false wall. (When we move out, it stays.) If they come in and hold a gun to our heads, I’ll open the safe they can see. They’ll get a couple older .22s with no firing pins and no ammo, some fake jewelry and a little cash.

    I figure that, if we ever sell the house and a potential buyer makes an offer, our counter will be: “There’s a built-in 48 gun safe hidden in the house. Pay the price we are asking and we’ll show you where it is.”

    • About 15 years ago I bought a safe that weighed about 600 lbs.empty and when it arrived I could not believe my eyes. An old man and his wife show up in a bobtail truck with a lift gate. They spent ten minutes unpacking it and I thought I was going to pitch in. He pulls out this six wheel hydraulic dollie. It could climb stairs and power wheels. When I bought the safe they charged $200.00 delivery. This guy and his wife have got a sweet setup probably work two or three days a week.

  12. Hello TTAG Management,

    Well, that’s aggravating. I tried to post a comment. It never showed up and when I tried to re-post I received a dialogue box saying that it appears to be a duplicate message of one that I’ve already posted.

    Is this part of the “few behind-the-scenes difficulties” that Dan wrote of in his last New Post?

  13. Underwriters Laboratory (UL) does not consider any vault a “safe” unless it has plate steel that is at least 1 inch thick.

  14. Buy bigger than you think you will ever need. Guns with scopes and or mags take up more space than ones that dont. My Liberty has a very thin floor plate (not good). Hopefully they have corrected that or look elsewhere. Buy a Golden Rod dehumidifier (heater). As long as the temp in the same is warmer than the ambient air temp outside the safe, rust cannot happen (30 years safe in my uninsulated, unheated, not air conditioned garage in the humid south). For a good size collection of long guns, consider a gun closet or vault with a vault door. Safes suck. They are a pain in the butt to get guns in and out of. The one you want is always in the back. Your wife wont like it no matter where it is. They stick out like a sore thumb.

    • Think of what you need and at least double or triple the capacity. My first 4 gun safe quickly ended up holding 6, then 8, then 10. Thankfully milsurps don’t have scopes and fold down or flush fitting sights. My next safe was rated for 15 and currently holding more than that.

  15. Four grand and still has a sheet-metal door?

    Look elsewhere; you can get a TL15 or TL30, used, in that price range. And $40 worth of Harbor Freight tools can’t get in.

    And get an electronic lock. EMP concerns are silly, and irrelevant. The safe is a Faraday cage, already, and the electronics are on the inside.

    • I would agree that sheet metal sucks…

      Regarding a TL safe…I looked at a used one that was about the same price / size as my sturdy. I almost got it, but at over 4000lbs, it really limited placement options. But yes, if you are sure about location, a used TL jewelers safe is a much better than a “gun safe”.

      EMP…not sure about that..BUT…when I have replaced batteries in electronic locks in the past, it seems that the brain is on the outside and only a little set of wires goes inside and actuates the release. Even if that is not correct, the keypad is OUTSIDE the safe, and it is electronic, so it would (possibly) be rendered useless.

      manual old school is the most robust.

    • Electricity flows on the outside of faraday cage seeking ground.

      Looking at my Liberty Safe, the electronics (keypad assembly ) are covered by a plastic bevel on the outside. The motor that works the lugs inside has two copper wires thru a waveguide that is only effective to about 100 MHz. Of course wires thru a waveguide negates the waveguide beyond cutoff theory. If you have forewarning of an emp, remove the battery, ground the the positive and negative connections for a moment to remove any energy left in the keypad. Theory says one of three things happens. 1. The keypad is fried. 2. The keypad survives, and resets to the default password. 3. The programmed password remains. It depends on the keypad type, the location in building, and the distance from the source of the EMP.

      Mine is grounded via the bolts I used to anchor it down with. I am looking for a brass bevel to replace the plastic one and to attach a nickel cadmium fabric over the keypad. Overboard? Probably. Prudent? Defines. A EMP is probable, and we are due for a large one. The Carrington event was in 1859 and scientists believe it a 100 year occurrence.

      • Sounds like a good plan…and not sure if it would matter for an emp….but a household electrical system required a grounding rod to be driven several feet into the ground to meet code. Likely thats overkill, but are 4 bolts screwed 5 inches in concrete sufficient. I don’t know…just something to think about.

  16. Sturdy manual tumblers for sure, it seems that your local driggie burglar thinks that by smashing the electronic lock they can get into the safe. If you do go the electronic lock route, do yourself a favor and splice some extra wire into the lock and secure it. That way if the lock is smashed, it won’t break the wires up inside the safe.
    It happened to a friend but he managed to get a long clip on test lead onto the wires, negating a locksmith drilling to get into the safe.

  17. Get a Zanotti safe. Modular so you can easily move it and fir it in spaces a normal safe would not go. Made in the USA, uses quality La Gard locks (no electronic locks) and is rock solid. It’s super easy to disassemble/resemble if you need to move it or set it up in closet of small space you move an entire safe into.

  18. I see the general population still has good eyes and steady hands. I no longer do, and a dial lock is impractical for me.

    A commercial model Kaba electronic lock is reliable enough for me – no problems in about 20 years.

  19. My “safe” is enough to deter the meth addicts who burglarize houses around here, and for that it is sufficient. It would be very difficult to jimmy, and it is bolted to concrete. Throw in a few noisy dogs and a spouse who is always home, and I think my security is adequate for the risk.

    But don’t believe what anyone says about capacity. If you use optics, you will be lucky to fit in half what they say. Mine is supposed to have a capacity of 12, but at six, four with scopes, it won’t take any more. The room that is left isn’t enough for a decent amount of ammo, so I may have to get a fire safe just to store the meager supply I have managed to save up. (California’s ammo law and the drought really put the brakes on stocking up. Shelves everywhere are empty and at double or triple the prices just a few months ago. Internet buys are a forgotten memory.)

  20. Stick with a sargent and greenleaf mechanical lock, and pay extra for a Group I lock. The Group II locks can be opened by manipulator (like spies or jewel thieves in the movies, they turn the dial slowly, while listening with an electronic stethoscope. It’s a real thing). I recommend AmSec, Champion or Superior, and expect to pay at least $4000.00 for a safe you can trust.

  21. 7 gauge steel isnt enough. Most people can pick up an el cheapo Harbor Freight angle grinder that will zip through the steel in no time flat. You want something that has an aggregate in the body that eats up cutting tools.
    Inside hinges arent inherently better than external ones, and are usually flimsier than external also. You cant get a well designed safe door off by cutting off the hinges anyways.
    And you dont always need a ton of locking bolts, if the door is solid steel or steel and aggregate (not gauge steel wrapped around drywall) and stiff enough to resist deformation, 3 bolts on left and right and one on top and bottom is more than enough.
    Design and engineering are important when it comes to safe.
    AMSEC makes some real TL15 and TL30 safes that are worth the money.
    And protecting your things takes a multi-pronged approach. Gotta be smart about what you show off, harden your home, security system.
    It all matters

  22. Never been very impressed with gun safes.

    I buy commercial and Jewelers safes. No electronics.

    I have found the best way to buy a safe is to buy it used from a commercial business that is closing. You will buy it for a token plus the moving costs because they are so difficult to move. Most of my safes have been retail $5-$10k but have never cost me more than $800 plus moving.

    Safe movers make the move look much easier than it is. Also, Most of my safes are rated 1-4 hours to break in but my safe company can get into a 4 hour locked safe in +/- 7 minutes!

    With all the. Businesses going under from commie flu there should be tons of safes coming onto the market

  23. I made the same mistake as the author when I bought my Liberty safe. The seller warned me that I should ge one step up. turns out I really needed that bigger one. I’m running out of room on mine. Can’t buy another one. Don’t have a place to put it.

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