Home ATF ATF: LOVE ME! ATF ATF: LOVE ME! By Robert Farago - December 13, 2015 78 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ From the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (And Really Big Fires) Facebook page. Feel free to add or review to the myth vs. fact rundown in the comments section below. [h/t SD] ◀Previous Post Next Post▶ RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR The NFA and the ATF’s eForms System – What You Need to Know You Don’t Say: ATF Lied About Number of Requests Received on Unfinished Frames and Receivers New DOJ Rule Expands Firearm Safe Storage Requirements…And More 78 COMMENTS Read the Facebook comments on that photo. They’re golden. Reply Oh good gravy, that was the best 5min I’ve spent today. Some favorites: They don’t always Waco/Ruby Ridge, but when they do this chart doesn’t apply…. The ATF is committed to reducing violent crime & preventing criminals from acquiring firearms.** **except when they’re funneling guns to Mexican drug cartels that use them to kill Americans If you people don’t make the laws then that means we can shoulder Sig braces yes? And trying to prosecute that as a crime would be illegal since, you know, you guys can’t makes laws. ATF NEWSDAY TUESDAY: ATF dispels 5 common myths we receive inquires on regularly. #Mythbusters Learn more facts about ATF at http://ow.ly/VCPyA Timeline Photos · Dec 8 at 11:40am · View Full Size · Report Photo Like Comment Share 275 people like this. Write a comment… Post Mike Press Isn’t the NFRTR a national gun registry? Like · 12 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 12:12pm ATF It is a national registry of federally restricted weapons… More See all 20 replies Kit Brogdon The ATF is committed to reducing violent crime & preventing criminals from acquiring firearms.** **except when they’re funneling guns to Mexican drug cartels that use them to kill Americans. Like · 170 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 5:41pm 11 replies William Whitley Nah, ATF doesn’t make laws. They just bend and twist existing laws a little… Like · 138 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 11:54am 11 replies Sebastian Trejo If you people don’t make the laws then that means we can shoulder Sig braces yes? And trying to prosecute that as a crime would be illegal since, you know, you guys can’t makes laws. And you can’t claim you don’t have a registry until you get rid of the NFA. Like · 95 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 4:21pm 7 replies Joshua Robert They don’t always Waco/Ruby Ridge, but when they do this chart doesn’t apply…. Like · 68 · Reply · More · Dec 9 at 8:33am Ben R Baker 1) Then why does ATF take guns away from people? http://wkrn.com/2015/11/20/atf-works-to-trace-guns-used-in-violent-crime/ 2) The ATF policy manual is enforceable as a law, yet it is not codified in any federal legislation. If I can be prosecuted for violating a policy, then it is a law. 3) When a gun dealer closes his doors, ATF takes his records. What happens to the records? 4) ATF is funded by the Federal Government. The Federal government collects the money from NFA taxes. Ergo, ATF is at least partly funded by NFA taxes. 5) Then why was a friend of mine employed by ATF in the background checks department? Why does she say her work routinely kept guns out of criminal hands? Why do we use ATF forms? https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics ATF works to trace guns used in violent Tennessee crimes If you buy a gun for someone who can’t legally buy one for themselves, you can face up to 10 years in prison. wkrn.com · Like · 57 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 3:26pm Chris Carlisle So your purpose in life is……what? Besides not being able to make up your mind on things like Sig braces. Like · 50 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 11:55am Steve Day The fact that the ATF can change what “readily convertible” means depending on which way the wind is blowing means you make the decision on if something is illegal or not, by the very definition that is making a law. Like · 33 · Reply · More · Yesterday at 3:19am Jj Muller Nice poster. Lets talk about Eric Holder and “Fast and Furious”? How about Brian Terry and the gun that killed him? Like · 48 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 1:29pm 1 reply Eric Steele However, the ATF attempts to make arbitrary rulings based on opinion of laws, and enforces them. Case in point; attempts to change the categorization of select ammunition, attempts to change status of AR Pistols as SBR’s, etc. While the ATF may not make law, there is…IMO…far too much leeway in the interpretation of law. Edited · Like · 56 · Reply · More · Dec 8 at 11:58am 1 reply Keith Carter The ATF doesn’t make laws? Really? But you do make “findings” and “rulings” about the wordings of laws which radically changes them from their original intent fairly frequently. But you’re right. You don’t make laws. You just change them after the fact in ways the elected officials who passed them didn’t intend. Reply Too much win (or atf fail!) for one thread. These guys DO take guns away. These tyrants DO have a quota to fill so yeah you get a reward for taking our money which is probably money… These idiots DO have a registry and we can see what happened after some Muslim guys shot up the beltway too prove it. They ARE useless( unless you have a dog that needs to be shot, a mother that needs to have a gun pointed at her, a door that needs to be kicked in, or a house that needs to be burnt down). And yes they SHOULD find a tall building and time a freefall descent for us. You know in the name of tyrant ridding science( Bill the science guy approved?). Reply Hey blog hog, ease up on the massives posts of regurgitated material. If I wanted to pore over pages of jackwagon FB comments, I’d go do so. That junk isn’t up to TTAG standards, anyway. Reply Then… don’t read it? In many internet circles, what this man did is considered a kindness. For those unable to access facebook from work, this allows them to see the post and comments being discussed, rather than left in the dark. It’s fine if you don’t want to read it. Most computer mice have a little wheel-looking dealie between the buttons. If you roll this downward rapidly with your fingertip it will scroll past the offending comment and you can quickly go on to reading other things. On your keyboard there is probably a key labelled “Page Down” (sometimes abbreviated as “Pg Dn” or similar) that provides a similar function. Well, those chaps can all look forward to a 3am wakeup call by armed thugs smashing down their door. I like my guns too much to openly provoke the ATF like that. Reply Nicely done Anner , I think someone may have restructured your outline a little better to make it more readable , but I really have nothing to add , again , well done . I will just reinforce two things : Waco , Ruby Ridge . Reply Surely, an agency that has so much respect for the Second Amendment, holds the First Amendment in high regard. They wouldn’t put those commenters on the “terrorist watch list” or the “no-fly list”. No, not the ATF. Reply You mean like the IRS targeting Tea Party activists in an attempt to shut down their campaigning efforts? There is nothing that a bureaucrat hates more than to be ridiculed and shown for the corrupt despots that they are. Since the upper management at the BATF meets all of this criteria; I would not be surprised if some day a flash bang is thrown through my door prior to the entrance of a bunch of “authorized” jack booted thugs wearing ski masks with select fire weapons in a home invasion attempt. Reply 1: No, they don’t want to take your guns away unless… they’re 15.9 inches in barrel length, their sears are stripped enough that they fire two rounds every blue moon, they shoot soda cans or smoke grenades, or the ATF determines retroactively that they’re illegal. 2: ATF regularly rewrites the definitions, which in effect changes the meanings of the laws. Tomato, tomahto. 3: I’m not knowledgeable enough to comment here 4: Not sure if I’ve ever seen this “myth” before, but who the funds go to doesn’t really change the legitimacy of the taxes. Wouldn’t be too surprised if the ATF’s funding is in part determined by the amount of revenue they take in, which would pragmatically be the same thing 5: No arguments here. Reply Here is more knowledge on #3. http://www.gunowners.org/congress02122013.htm Reply Myth: ATF agents are a bunch of jackbooted fascist thugs. Fact: ATF agents do not wear jackboots. Reply Only because they are underfunded. If only they had the resources they need… Reply You go to war against the Constitution with the resources you have, not the army of bureaucrats you might want or wish to have at a later time. Reply Now that’s funny. Reply ATF AGENT ‘ JACK FERRELL ‘ , DOES . Reply I’ll like the ATF a lot better when we read about it in the past tense. Reply I’ll like them better when they are a convenience store instead of a federal agency. Reply ding ding ding you win the innertubz today! Reply Somebody got the true and false columns reversed. Reply No gun registry, eh? Then why are/were they going around to gun dealers and scanning their “Bound Books” under threat of severe penalty? And +1 about the Fast ‘N’ Furious scandal. Brian Terry isn’t the only one who’s dead because of the ATF’s actions in that. – T Reply How are they able to backtrack (legally bought) guns used in crimes to see where the firearms were originally purchased? Reply They say that they go to the mfr, the mfr keeps records where the gun was sold, ffl or distribution center, the ATF then goes through the pile of 4473’s until they find the right one.Maybe this is true, maybe not. I have heard rooms that the ATF has been going to random FFL’s and making copies of the 4473 forms, but I’m not sure if I have enough tin foil stocked or not for that one. Reply Look it up, there’s a cadre of ATF emps entering the contents of every turned in bound book into a “non-database”. Then the scans from the ‘searches’ are entered… Sure, if you word salad on a daily basis, it’s not a “database”. Except that it is of course. The ATF should already be gone, management fired or put to work in some armpit of the ME checking muslim fiance VISAs, ( did this guy ever come back? http://cnsnews.com/news/article/wh-aide-involved-fast-and-furious-was-suddenly-transferred-iraq-issa-threatens-subpoena) or doing joint-task-force liaison with UN soldiers for african child raping investigations- wait, maybe some are already transferred there? I feel sorry for the street agents, who I think by and large try to do an honest job. Most would love to be folded into Customs, IRS, DEA or even FBI, except nobody will take them, expecially the FBI, because no own trusts them, thanks to the stupid past $hit of a few cowboys, and the dirt dumb decisions of management. Reply ATF is funded by the Federal Government? How does the Federal Government pay for anything, when it has no job? Reply The job of the federal government is supposed to include border defense, transportation infrastructure, education, limited inspections, and making laws which do not violate the constitution. The reality is that the government now controls healthcare, destroys privacy, redistributed wealth, and desires to control every aspect of life. Pay your taxes or face tyre consequences. Reply National defense,system of courts for defending an Individual’s person, property, and Liberty. Those are the only legitimate functions of the Federal government. Pretty sure there is nowhere in the Constitution that says Feeral Government has any authority to regulate or provide education. And there certainly is nowhere in the Constitution that gives the federal Government the authority to tax you to build roads. Reply This administration is criminal and the ATF is SDRAWKCAB SSA , FTA . FFTA . Reply I always new the NICS system was not ran by the atf. The giveaway was that it didn’t take 3 months to get a response. Reply Burn. Reply ATF. should be a convenience store and not a government agency. nuff said. Reply Let’s say love has to work both ways and leave it at that. Reply Why does a Federal agency even HAVE a Facebook page? Is their own .gov page not enough? Reply “ATF is committed to reducing violent crime…” Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Deep breath Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Reply Then why did the ATF say that a pistol brace is a shoulder stock when shouldered? A pistol handle isn’t a shoulder stock when shouldered? The ATF arbitrarily makes rulings on their intent to enforce rules that aren’t in the law. The ATF has applied thought crime to to the concept of “constructive possession.” Somehow owning a semiautomatic rifle that requires maching to make a full auto rifle is legal, but owning a full auto receiver tube and other components that require machining to make a full auto rifle is illegal. They are the enforcement arm of liberal nonsensical freedom hating ideals and they support the gun industry??? ATF can FO. Reply Why prevent criminals from acquiring firearms? Why not prevent criminals from acquiring ANYTHING, except maybe a 6×10 foot patch of concrete? Reply Great PR attempt. I swear every single branch of the federal government assumes we’re all complete bumbling fools. Reply Well I’d say at least 3/4 of Americans (if not more) are dumb enough to be classified as legally retarded, so their assumption isn’t wrong. Reply I need to learn how to “share” crap like this on fakebook. This is a hoot… Reply They tried to take away the Branch Davidians guns. It didn’t work out so they just killed them instead. Reply They should have put that in the brochure. Don’t forget shooting babies too! Gotta shoot those Idaho babies and then spout “immunity” to the people! Reply Oh, so, I mean if they aren’t doing any of those things, I guess there’s no need for ’em? Just shut ’em down boys. FBI’s got it covered. Reply Somebody please, please, edit that photo and put the truth in those boxes! Those with good PS skills, this is your calling! This is a real opportunity to fight the bs propaganda. Be sure to mention fast and furious, M855 not being armor piercing based on the law, Ruby Ridge, Waco, and whatever else. Then we can pass the real deal around Facebook. Reply Sorry man, it’s late, this is all I could do, but merry Christmas. http://imgur.com/FKmBjar There goes my Form 4 approval… Reply ATF&E should be a convenience store not a federal agency. A clean well stocked and manned 24 hr. truck stop with clean restrooms. ATF might be doin a great job but, unlike the police who are there in minutes when seconds count, they are there within 12 hours of being alerted by other federal, or state agencies. Like police, they need to mold your rights to fit the ease of their job, and DGAF what that means, because their job is more important. Reply The fellow I dealt with on my first form 4 was very helpful and friendly. Reply I remember when the ATF decided to raid an Airsoft shop because they thought the toy guns can be converted to deadly “assault rifles”. Then when confronted on the facts through a news feature story, the ATF replied by redirecting the question by saying they were trying to reduce “gun violence”. Reply The BATFE arrested a guy and made sure he went to prison because his firearm MALFUNCTIONED. They could have simply confiscated it, or told the guy he had X number of days to get it repaired, but nope, they made sure he went to Federal prison for 10 years. He owned an older semi-automatic AR-15. He loaned it to his buddy. The rifle rapid fired while his buddy had it at the range. Someone at the range reported it to the local cops, who passed it onto the BATFE. They arrested the guy and confiscated the firearm. It was NOT purposely modified to be an illegal machinegun, it simply was broken. That did not matter…neither did the fact that they guy was a National Guardsman with a clean record who had done deployment service. They refused to let experts testify on behalf of the guy at his trial or properly examine the rifle. The firearm was so unsafe that the BATFE lab people used a cord to pull the trigger from behind cover because they were afraid it would come apart as it fired so fast. Remember, folks, this is the same BATFE that ran “Fast and Furious” and the fiasco joke of a “sting” in Milwaukee that ended up with THEIR firearms in the hands of actual criminals. I have no love for them, not in the least. Reply Here is a link to the story, there is more to it than this, but it’s the basics of it. http://www.wnd.com/2008/01/45503/ Reply I do remember reading that. You know, the only reason anyone surrenders is that he thinks he’ll have a fair trial in court. When the evidence is rigged and no one can testify, not really a fair trial. In a sense, you have the same expected outcome as the last people rounded up in the Warsaw Ghetto. When it happens…whether it’s a debt default, rebellion, session of sufficient states, or whatever, we need to make sure to paint the wall with these guys. They proved beyond a reasonable doubt what they like to do when they can get away with it, and I don’t want them anywhere near my family, our new little country, or new little police force. They can keep their lists, we have lists too. Reply Don’t forget, ATF technicians tested the AR in question and found it to NOT fire multiple rounds with one pull of the trigger. Somebody from the field office, maybe the SAC IIRC, sent it back with instructions to keep testing it until they could show Olofson’s AR was a machine gun. That right there is more than reasonable doubt for any ‘fair trial’, and his conviction is clear proof that there is no such thing as a fair trial in the feral court system. Reply Closing down this money wasting bureau/agency is looooong overdue. Reply Shutting down the entire cesspool that is the Federal government is long overdue. Reply CRUZ s the one guy talking about shutting down federal agencies , programs , dictates and mandates and returning America to a strong states rights constitutional republic . CRUZ = small limited federal government , much more Libertarian , strong states bottom up , Jeffersonian . TRUMP = more federal dictates , more federal programs , top down control , Teddy Roosevelt progressivism . Reply HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH “False: The ATF is strictly prohibited by law from having a gun registry” Anyone stupid enough to believe that they actually follow this law is too stupid to own a firearm. Reply Exaclty. The NSA stopped recording data when ordered to, except, whoops, they lied and kept doing it. What fool would trust these institutional liars? Reply Ruby Ridge. Waco. Fast and Furious. This agency shouldn’t exist. Reply Myth: The Bureau will go into your house at night and wreck up the place Fact: The Bureau will go into your house at night and wreck up the place Reply Hmm… they try to blame Waco on the FBI too! Reply April 19 was the Feral Bureau of Incineration. The original inept raid was BATF. Reply Well, I think it’s safe to say that this little PR stunt backfired on them in a major way… Reply I wish the ATF did get the money from NFA taxes. It would make them process them a lot faster and work to relax rules. We should try and lobby to get that money on their budget. Reply The BATF? Instead of arresting Koresh at a coffee shop that they knew he frequented almost every day; they decided to go all operator operationally with full auto weapons into a complex of buildings they knew was full of almost a hundred men, women and children. And after they got some of them killed in the failed invasion attempt, they escalated the stand off to where almost a hundred men, women and children were burned to death. .They targeted a man for retaliation after he refused to become a snitch on a local Idaho white supremacist group; then, while staking out his house, shot his son in the back running away and shot his wife in the head while she was holding a baby. Then, they illegally sold semi-auto military style rifles to the Mexican Cartels, which was used to murder hundreds of Mexican citizens and a US federal agent. This alone, let alone hundreds of other examples of lying, fabricating evidence and targeting gun stores for closure for paper work errors; shows the BATF as a completely corrupt organization, and should be shut down as a provable enemy of the American people. Reply “…and shot his wife in the head while she was holding a baby.” You meant, “shot his wife deliberately while she was holding a baby while knowing she was unarmed, and not only not punishing the government sniper, he eventually got a promotion.” Reply Yep. After all, he was just “following orders”. I think I heard somewhere that wasn’t allowed as justified in committing murder in some trials a while back. Reply BATF didn’t kill anybody at the Weaver homestead. They just framed Randy which provided the excuse for everything that followed. FBI assassin Lon Horiuchi shot Vicki Weaver in the head, and I believe it was Marshals that killed 14 year old Sammy and his dog. Reply It is good to have the facts straight. It was the BATF’s retaliation against Randy Weaver for refusing to become a Confidential Informant, that led to the murder of his son and his wife. Just not directly by the BATF death squads. Reply M R. J A N E T R E N O , The only real man in the Clinton administration . Unless you want to include Hillary . Reply I think if the BATF was more customer friendly it could more quickly build the perception of it being on the gun owners side. Things like not randomly banning types of ammunition, not randomly changing the classification of firearms, processing SBR and suppressor applications in a timely manner (or helping us get rid of the need for applications, since they didn’t make much sense in the first place). We all want to “keep guns from criminals”, but law abiding gun owners all too often feel like they’re being looked at as criminals. Reply Customer friendly? Customer friendly? B-rutalize A-ttack T-errorize F-irebomb E-very one The way they could show they are customer friendly is for the upper echelon management to voluntarily turn themselves in for crimes against humanity as well as for crimes against the constitution and have the entire department disbanded.. Reply M855. They obviously think our memories are as deficient as their agents’. Reply Wow. I never knew the ATF could be so warm and cuddly. Reply Notice they don’t deny having a registry, just that they are strictly prohibited by law from having one. Reply The only ones on here that’s true is that NICS is the FBI responsibility and that NFA tax money doesn’t necessarily stay with BATFE. Sorry guys, not falling for your attempt to get closer to stab us all in the back. Or burn down a building around us when there are innocent women and children involved. Reply The thing I find most hilarious is: you mean the Jackbooted Kitten Stompers have a Facebook page? (00) What, do they Twitter, too? @ Hashtag #gunwalkerericholder or something? What… did the White House slash the PR budget or something? Reply Give me my 7n6 back!! Give me my steel core 7.62×39 back!!!! Give me my AP 7.62 NATO and other calibers back!!!!!!! Reply 5 myths debunked. The rest are all true! Reply LEAVE A REPLY Cancel reply Please enter your comment! 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