In the video below, former ATF Firearms Tech Branch Chief Rick Vasquez sounds the alarm on the Bureau’s soon-to-be-released bump fire stock ban. As the Military Arms Channel’s Tim Harmsen discovered, the new regs are set to outlaw “any device that enhances the rate of fire.” Say goodbye to competition triggers. It gets worse . . .
As Mr. Vasquez points out, to make this work, the ATF has to create a legally acceptable firing rate. The rate would set a common baseline across all rifles and platforms, above which enhancements could not go.
The Second Amendment is appalled. Not to mention that the ATF “rules” represent an end-run around the legislative process. And then there’s the Miculek problem . . .
If a shooter exceeds this standard rate of fire with some non-enhanced methodology — such as being Jerry Miculek — it’s possible he could be arrested. On federal charges. For shooting a machine gun.
It sounds crazy, but remember that the ATF ruled that the SB Tactical Brace was illegal (without an ATF-approved SBR tax stamp) when fired from the shoulder. While they reversed that ruling, the “logic” is the same.
The danger is clear: the ATF’s bump fire stock regs could have serious consequences for firearms freedom.
So where is the NRA in all this?
The ATF bump fire stock regs were their idea, designed to take the wind out of the sails of a post-Vegas mass shooting federal bump fire stock ban. Which they did. Only to put gun rights in the teeth of a howling gale.
[Click here to watch the full, unedited interview.]
Such a silly question 🙂
There is no need for the cops to show up, let alone the SWAT dudes – after all, if the law says the bad-guys cannot have guns, then by definition, the bad guys do not have guns.
Just repeat the following words and everything will be OK.
“When guns are outlawed,
outlaws will not have guns.”
I’d like to think that they’ll realize theres no practical way to enforce rules on a “rate increasing” device, be that a spring, binary trigger, etc. Particularly when you can bump fire off your belt loop easily. If they try something along the lines of “1 round a second” like some have hypothesized, I know for a fact that I can shoot a bone stock glock or m&p 2-3 times a second. So then you would be forced to implement some kind of mechanical limiting device that I can hardly imagine would be feasible (maybe that’s the point). I believe (and hope) that this will go nowhere because they’re trying to make the decision too broad over too many different parts. IF anything like this is rammed through I imagine there will be mass non compliance.
You can easily 3D print a bumpfire device that goes over the pistol grip or just buy the Hellfire Gen 2, Hypergat, or similar devices. Time to stock up on those and binary triggers, it seems.
Doesn’t the trigger itself effectively increase a firearm’s rate of fire from zero to something greater than zero?
Uh-oh! It looks like it’s time to break out our Revolutionary War era accoutrements…
Thinking about this it’s likely going too far. The reason why is that proving you transferred a firearm could easily be producing evidence that you have committed another crime such as transferring it to someone who shouldn’t have it or some other bureaucratic hitch up in the process. Taking the 5th in such a case would be EXTREMELY advisable regardless of having the guns still or not.
its nice that it sticks out past the muzzle too, so you can use it as a “dead thing poker”.
Quote DAVE: ” If someone is at home, smoking a legal doobie, “
Sorry, Dave, there ain’t no such thing as a “legal doobie” in the USA
Jerry Miculek will be outlawed.
So their “ruling” is based on what law on the books again? As far as I know, the only law regarding a “machine gun” is the literal written form of the 1934 National Firearms Act which defines a machine gun as a firearm which: “fires more than one round per function of the trigger.”
So based on that, how does rate-of-fire factor into any existing law at all? As far as I can tell, there are no national laws that even mention rate of fire.
I’m no lawyer, but this to me is the ATF just screaming to be dismantled due to gross overreach of chartered authority. Not to mention dismantled on grounds of being abjectly unconstitutional, but that’s not stopped 99% of the federal government from treading all over it on a daily basis.
Sure. Why not? We’ve got all these guys just sitting around…might as well give them something to do.
Technically speaking, smoothing an action isn’t to increase the rate of fire, it’s to smooth the action. With the mentality being shown, a padded butt stock could increase the rate of fire because it aids the shooter in comfort, thus enhancing the ability to fire a weapon more rapidly and in an increased rate of succession. However, I just don’t see enforcement on trigger packages, action and trigger jobs. That’s a bunch of “the sky is falling” malarkey. The intent is to curtail possession and use of items that increase the rate fire beyond what (most) humans can perform, Jerry Miculek being the exception. That being bump stocks, slide fire, trigger cranks and such.
Granted, all it takes is some snot nosed brat with a badge to make someones life miserable because the letter of the law says………etc. Nobody wants to be dragged into a court having to pay a lawyer, have guns seized and generally be a very unhappy person because the rules or laws used inadequate, poorly crafted, careless language.
SAM I AM, Obviously, as with any “Gun Control” legislation which only serves to harm and/or effect law-abiding citizens, the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934 had zero effect on criminals (since criminals do not register or pay tax stamps on their weapons) and neither did the Firearm Owners Protection Act (specifically the Hughes Amendment) of 1986 which banned import or manufacture of machine guns.
How come no one ever makes a magazine extension tube for Mossberg 500 series?
Who cares if the existing front mount of the magazine tube is welded to the barrel? /end_sarcasm
Even though, I don’t hunt, I enjoy all of Liberte Austin’s posts. Informative and a sense of adventure and humor thrown in. Keep it up.
http://www.kcci.com/article/police-shoot-mountain-lion-in-back-yard-of-des-moines-home/6873048
“A provision of Proposition 63 requires people convicted of certain crimes to provide proof that they sold or transferred their firearms before the court finalizes their sentence.”
And it just so happens, California wants *all* guns ‘Registered’.
How convenient! Now they know exactly what guns you own!
It’s *not* to “help fight crime”, that is a LIE.
it’s to make CONFISCATION easy for the ‘law’.
And this is *why* ‘Universal Background Checks” should be un-constitutional.
My ‘Armed self-defense activist’ goal now is the destruction of ALL gun registration schemes.
‘No one is coming to take your guns”…
Virginia is considering such a bill.
“Getting a search warrant will now be a rubber stamp deal. Leading to more aggressive recovery efforts. Leading to . . .”
Wouldn’t it be beautifully ironic if the spark for ‘Civil War, part Deux’, came from California?
*snicker* 😉
I still think this will die in the comment period with the ATF basically using this as a “Well, we tried but Congress needs to act” CYA way of passing the buck because the ATF doesn’t want to open this can of worms.
I mean, this is the organization telling Congress that they want silencers off the NFA because they aren’t often used in crimes and the ATF doesn’t really want to continue doing the amount of work that keeping silencers regulated this way entails. Now I’m supposed to believe that they’re going to, of their own volition, add to that pile of work by not just adding bump stocks (used ONCE in a crime so far as I know) and a ton of other shit to boot and then coming up with arbitrary numbers for rate of fire? On top of that they’ve got to know this is going to spawn a ton of lawsuits.
So again, the ATF, an agency begging for it’s NFA workload to be reduced is not voluntarily going to take action to insure that it’s NFA workload to be increased by many, many times what it is today… over an item that, so far as any reporting (that I know of) has found, has been used for exactly one crime?
I’d call those claims dubious.
This set of assertions reminds one of Winston from Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels when he says “You went out six hours ago to buy a money counter and you come back with a semi-conscious Gloria and a bag of fertilizer. Alarm bells are ringing, Willie.” because the proclaimed forthcoming actions on the part of the ATF make about as much sense.
I’m ok with the concept of prohibited possessors, provided due process has been adhered to. Where we draw that line (violent felons only? multiple non-violent felonies? 1st degree felonies only, regardless of violent or not?), is essentially a political decision for the People to decide through the political process.
Given a prohibited possessor, though, he should be subject to being busted for that illegal possession when the police have probable cause that he’s in violation. Whether that entails warrants and a task force, or busting them in the routine course of arresting them for some other criminal activity he gets involved in, is a matter for law enforcement to decide based on their reasonable priorities. They can’t pursue every lead on every alleged crime, after all.
Mandating that newly prohibited possessors PROVE they’ve divested their firearms, however, is an unconstitutional and costly invasion of privacy, in addition to being a potentially Kafkaesque ordeal for the offender. It’s just more unworkable, unhelpful Hell heaped on a nearly bankrupt state with a subprime credit rating on par with Estonia and the Czech Republic. Surely they have better things to do with their time and money.
Showing up with a SWAT team and “asking” for search consent is a sham. That is an overwhelmingly intimidating and illegal use of government power. It’s even worse than doctors unethically leveraging their special position of authority to inquire about and document a patient’s firearms ownership.
I know: you can just say “no.” Technically, you can, but many will feel immense pressure to acquiesce, especially as someone already on the crap list who doesn’t want any more trouble.
Thanks for thinking this one up, Wayne and Chris.
And thanks to Marion for promoting it.
Negotiating Rights Away, Since 1934…
I did not even know about this until yesterday. I commented and I also called and wrote my senators and house rep asking them to make noise and stop this infringement. A noisy senator or rep is better than any comment we make on the subject. The ATF will ban semi autos via regulations no matter what we say. Fast trigger devices include any after market triggers.
Huh.
I really figured they’d drop the American series. I still say it has no real future.
Fine then… as long as the SR series stays around… or at least until I get my SR9c and the new PCC to match.
????
If ATF actually decrees that bump fire stocks, binary triggers, etc., are in fact “machine guns,” it’s not like we’d be able to just suck it up and “get legal” by just getting a tax stamp for them. Due to the Hughes Amendment, the registry on “machine guns” is closed. Ergo, it’s the Atkins Accellerator problem on steroids — millions of units that for years have been legal and blessed by the ATF suddenly become 100% illegal with no way to fix it.
Now, such a result will look fundamentally unfair to a lot of people, and I suspect that ATF will come under a lot of pressure to try and mitigate it. One way they could do so would be to just reopen the MG registry (which I believe the President can do by an executive order granting an amnesty period to all who want to register “illegal” MG’s) so that everyone who has what the ATF now considers a “machine gun” can get legal.
Of course, if they do that, I have a funny feeling that there are going to be a lot of people quietly machining thousands of DAIS’s and Lightning Links to take advantage of the amnesty . . . which would really hoist ATF on its own petard.
There’s no such thing as an SR9E, nimrod. It’s simply the 9E.
But if you don’t add “SR” most un-enlightened gunner have no idea what you’re talking about.
The SR’s and 9E never got much love from the Gun Press and is a great pistol.
The more compact size of the Security 9 will probably be a good thing for Ruger sales.
Revolution in 3…2…1…
You guys better not procrastinate , I’ve already placed orders for two of these , I going to have one to hold the Glock mags and one the SR mags , , I own two SR9’s and a boat full of the mags so I’m really down with this .
I am another of that long gray line of gun guys who despise SA on the SB1657 deal.
if i saw that BEFORE I purchased my M1A, it never would have been purchased. That said, the “customer support” is non existent. I phoned with a question to a woman who answered, put me on hold for 15 minutes,. came back and said we don’t know. Lessons learned: When you spent thousands for a long gun and get crap in return you don’t buy again. I would have more respect for them if they flat out told me to piss off, which is exactly what they do anyhow.I swear. Anymore these companies get the dumbest head they can find and put them on phones.
Sad deal.
I don’t care if Ned Christensen, Ted Yost, Chuck Rogers and Mahatma Gandhi each fingered it, that’s a lot of dough for any serially produced handgun. $2499 would be a more realistic price IMO.
I think this is all to set up the mandate for “smart guns”. A computer chip controlled gun can have firing limits coded into it, along with a govenment shutdown mode that will be implemented against pesky citizens. Tinfoil hat, anyone?
A murder. Pure and simple.
What a stupid-looking mess.
These overpriced 1911 assemblers have completely jumped the shark, and I say this as the owner of over a dozen 1911s. Some of them overpriced.
Mountain Lions were extirpated from Iowa and none had been confirmed since pioneer times. That changed in 2001 when a Mountain Lion was killed in a road kill incident in Western Iowa near Harlan, IA. Since then there have been many confirmed sightings and some lions killed. Lions have no protections in Iowa and can be killed legally, even if they aren’t an immediate threat to life or property. The interesting thing is that since 2001, confirmed sighting have happened scattered across the state and not confined to any specific region. For a time, it was thought that only juvenile males were present, essentially looking for new territory. Evidence is building that female lions are also present and a population could be building. Iowa has a large whitetail deer population as a likely food source.
Lions are solitary and have very large ranges and are very territorial, so they appear to spread widely in short order even if they are in actuality few in number. The males and females are together only for mating, and then the female will force the male away before the kits are born, because he will kill and eat them.
When are they ever going to BE FORCED TO ADMIT THAT THEY ARE
N O T
P R O T E C T I N G
A N Y O N E
ATF Rules ARE FING
H O N O R
S Y S T E M
O N L Y
GUESS WTF, ATF&E,
N O
O N E
(AND I MEAN NOT AN FING THING)
I S
P R O T E C T I N G
Y O U (and yours)
F R O M
U S
IF WE CHOOSE TO STOP PLAYING YOUR STUPID Fv<k Fv<K GAMES.
Semi-auto, with a 20 round mag please. There’s already a 24 round pump.
I’m gonna wait for the STFU model….
Where’s the NRA? The same old place it always is. Give us more MONEY, more money, more money! Hey maybe we’ll give ya some cheap bag or a hat. But shell out more money!
NO MORE nra! You sell us out and do us in the backside? GOA folks!
Spellcheck – FABARM.
thanks for the detailed review. went to my FFL to get a p-01 i just ordered, a few hrs ago. i had serious concerns. i wasn’t expecting the unfinished frame inside…so i guess that’s normal. there were wear marks on the muzzle end of the barrel, and even the gunsmith thought it was…questionable…for sure more wear than the 5 test fire shots. feed ramp showed some marks/wear too. had only read good things about cz, maybe a little about the rough finish. they weren’t kidding, tho i do think mine is used (we’ll see what grabagun has to say). anyway, great article…now i know i still want one.
Now that is cool. That is really cool.
I plan on getting an integrally suppressed .300 BLK upper soon. I’ll wait to see what the price is on this. I’ve been looking at that one that’s advertised here on TTAG as well. It’s cool that stuff like this is commonly available now, but there’s even competition in the market. It really wasn’t long ago that all this stuff wasn’t available.
SOCOM’s SURG contract (suppressed upper receiver group) is the cause of all of these integral AR uppers we’ve seen in the last year. The GEMTECH Integra was pretty awesome in 5.56 (it’s reviewed on TTAG) and I hear it’s crazy quiet in 300 BLK. LaRue has an interesting looking one. This SIG one shows promise. The Thunder Beast Arms one I shot a few weeks ago was sweet. There are others, too, of course, and there will be more new ones releasing this year.
Thanks for the reviews on these things. I’m probably going to get one if silencers ever get out of the NFA. If they don’t when I get around to getting a silencer, I’m probably just going to sbr the lower or put a brace on it.
At the rate I’m buying “not silencers” gun stuff, it might be a couple of years before I can afford any kind of decent silencer.
I’ll be happy to wait for our resident gunsmith to comment on the potential utility of this thing, but I’m not seeing it.
I thought this was for display, not gunsmithing.
*Spread THE WORD ONLY 5 DAYS LEFT! Lets blow up their inbox so they will never AGAIN… think about doing this EVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!! I mean it ….lets overwhelm them!! What part of #SHALLNOTBEINFRINGED do they not understand???????
Please comment TO THE ATF politely using your own words not a boiler plate response for it will be trashed.
You can use just a short Sentence or 2 saying you oppose this rule Change!
THE SITE LIST SPAM AND MULTIPLE COMMENTS FROM The SAME SOURCES AND COMMENTS THAT ARE THE SAME OR NEAR THE SAME WILL NOT BE IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE RULES AND CONSIDERED SPAMMING!
REMEMBER THE COMMUNIST ARE MAKING COMMENTS TOO…. PAID FOR BY SOROS,BLOOMBERG,HOLLYWOOD,CLINTON FOUNDATION,FACEBOOK,EBAY,GOOGLE,YOOBTUBE ETC….
HERE IS THE LINK WITHOUT THE GOA SURVEY BS…SHAME GOA….
https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=ATF_FRDOC_0001-0035
Don’t complain if all semi-autos get banned and sat on ur butt to lazy to comment!
We cannot allow the ATF to the have the power to write and change laws and make Plastic a NFA item!*
And everyone called me stupid and paranoid for saying that this was just a blanket semi auto ban. I guess I’ll just get called all kinds of names and profanities like the last idiot who saw fit to insult me.
I hate to say I told you so but I told you so.
Good luck negotiating with the SS… I mean the atf.
Goodbye America.
I imagine that Instructor Zero is like Uther Pendragon (in Boorman’s Excalibur) in that he does EVERYTHING in full rattle.
Difficult to take advice about ballistic protection seriously from an author who doesn’t understand caliber measurements.
My respect for Stephen Willeford and Johnnie Langendorff continues to grow.
Slingshot and non-dominate thumb on the slide release are the two methods that I use most often. The reason I use the non-dominate thumb on the slide release is due to having small hands/short fingers that make it hard for me to reach the slide release on most pistols with my dominate thumb.
I powerstroke with my thumb and first few fingers, depending on how big the slide is.
About 25% of the bow- and black powder-hunters who come to my store are restricted to primitive tools because of a prior felony. All they want to do is hunt. It’s something that they really love doing. And for most of them, the reason they are disbarred is a stupid felony DUI that should have been expunged a decade ago.
Finally have a official count of rounds fired: 1050 5.56+8 308. With 59 killed (Injured numbers include injuries from trampling and other non-gunshot injuries.) That’s less than one kill per 18 shots fired. He would have gotten far more kills if he concentrated on the scoped 308s.
Still no video?
Last time I checked the Glock parts guide for my 23, the little lever on the side of the weapon is a slide _lock_, not a slide release; therefore I have learned and practiced using the hand-over-slide method. I don’t pinch or ‘slingshot’, more grip strength required. Plus it was easier to teach my wife who is weaker than I found the hand-over method easier as well.
To be honest, I’m not even sure there are that many of these stocks or trigger cranks in this state. There’s probably no plan to go out and look for them, the state is just hoping people will comply, and they can call it a success.
Just so everybody is clear, slingshots, fireworks, and booze bought in NH is also illegal here in MA. Guess how much of that stuff you can find in this state…
As with all gun control measures past these days by the gun hating states, i’m sure compliance will be sketchy, enforcement will be selective, and prosecution will only apply to those who have no criminal ties so as to make ”cutting a deal’ to be nearly impossible.
what if your other hand is busy or incapacitated or otherwise unavailable
its why i dont own a 1911
theyre cool and all that but my fingers are too short to get the slide and mag release on those things
all my pistols i own because i can get all the controls easily with one hand lefty or righty
makes sense and works for me
Dirtbag enters pizzeria with toy gun and robbery in mind.
Pizzeria employee opens up with own firearm, kills idiot dirtbag.
Evidently state and federal firearm laws are working, or this dirtbag may of had a real gun and real bullets.
These facts alone are calling for a celebration. State laws were in play, and the criminal lost everything, and no innocent persons were hurt.
One less criminal in Texas, and a local business that has the capability to provide protection for you when you visit them.
Gotta love it…
They can keep their rifle & scope if I have to JOIN the S***Hols Facebook/Instagram/Twitter!!!!
Gang violence can be reduced a little by permanently cutting off all Welfare and SSI to households containing gang members or thugs who were caught illegally possessing or using a firearm.
On my H&K P7M8 and P7M10 all I have to do is squeeze the grip and the slide releases. No silly tabs or releases, it just works flawless. Engineering marvel. I wish H&K would start making these again.
Four 590s???? Four?!
Counter arguments to the lies your liberal professor told you:
1. America is a “prison nation” with “insert wild statistic here” number of prisoners locked up. While the peaceful more advanced test of the world lives in perfect crime free harmony. This is absolute crap. America has a ton behind bars because we have a ton of criminals. This is due to combination of many factors. But, “tough on crime” worked. Under obama we went back on “tough on crime” policies, and low and behold, crime had begun to increase again. Meanwhile, the rest of the worlds crime stats are intentionally skewed by host nations and the media.
2. The innocence project. Here’s how the innocence project realky works. It’s a left wing political scam aimed at ending the death penalty by “proving” all these people sentences to death are “innocent”. This is not the case. Here’s what really happens. Person commits grevious crime and is sentenced to death. Due to an ignorant lengthy appeals process, they sit on death row for 30 years or more. 30 years goes by. Evidence gets lost or is no longer useable. Witness and victims, and their families, die off or simply stop wanting to be involved. Courts, juries, political landscapes change. After decades it gets pretty easy to get someone off death row then make the claim “oh look at this poor man who spent 30 years on death row and was innocent.”
3. Public hangings, whippings, firing squads and the stockade are “cruel and unusual.” All these methods of dealing with crime are more effective than the current system, and are very much constitutional, as they existed at the time of the constitutions implementation and remained the preferred method of dealing with crime until the creation of the modern prison system in the late 1800s.
4. As controversial as it may be, a form of eugenics occurred in late 20th century America that no one wants to talk about, because it worked. That’s abortion. As abortion became legalized in the 70s, abortions sky rocketed. 20 years later, about the age most criminals peak in their criminal career, crime began its dramatic drop seen until recently. A major contributing factor was that poor, single, minority, and inner city mothers never had the children they would’ve had, to grow up into the criminals they would’ve.
Well, dammit. There goes another six hundred bucks flying out of my wallet.
Official answer? No.
Unofficial answer, I may already have one…
im not sure, but i think the text body formatting got all screwed up. does the elite bio fiber have something to do with the wad?
“It’s coming right for us!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3RJUMm-hd0
Awesome review.
While I can appreciate all the bells and whistles of the “Operator” AR15s, they are not specifically needed. Current culture tacitly implies that if you don’t have a 1200 dollar AR fitted with a hand lapped barrel boasting 1/2 MOA, rails, lasers and lights, 800 dollar electro-optics, and 30 mags of 77gr SMKs, your doing it “wrong” and don’t even show up to the range.
Been years since I attended a SHOT Show. Assuming is only gotten bigger since then, it’s a Big Enough Deal that you’ll fit right in if you need three days to see only what you came to see and are dragging a Radio Flyer wagon around to haul all the swag the vendors keep shoving at you.
????
If it isn’t true I would expect the NRA to come out strongly, and set the record straight with verifiable facts.
If it is true then anyone connected with the NRA that knew about it should resign, in disgrace, immediately.
Lawyers on the NRA legislation staff would certainly know the law when it comes to foreign funding and U.S. elections
I carry a SabreRed peppergel thingy. Mostly for 4 legged critters. Works really well too(and only 15bucks).Carried a PepperBlaster for years but limited to 2 blasts. Neither was ever spotted by an inquisitive type…unlike this thing.
Hello, is anybody here interested in online job?
It is simple survey filling. Even 10 bucks per survey (10 minutes duration).
If you are interested, send me email to hans.orloski[@]gmail.com
Why even have this debate. Full auos should be as legal as any other firearm.