Gun Guru John Farnham of defense-training.com received the following email from a Jewish friend on the East Coast. He adds his comments after the text.
16 Dec 12
“We are a Jewish family, and all our minor children attend a Jewish elementary school. The school itself does its best to maintain a low profile, but due to its academic excellence, its appearance and location are well known in the area. We Jews, whether in Israel or here, are acutely aware of the continuing threat to us and our children, no matter where we live. It is not paranoia, as I’m not talking about ‘imagined’ threats, am I? Because of our community’s ability to accurately comprehend threats and threat-levels, we have elected not to do what is currently common in this civilization: (1) pretend threats don’t exist, and (2) wager our lives on police arriving sometime before the last shot is fired. So, this is what we’ve all agreed upon and instituted . . .
“Each father, including me, is on a mandatory, rotating duty-schedule. Each of us is thus ‘on-duty’ several days each month, all day. Yes, we have to take days off from work. We are posted in the back of each classroom, visibly armed with both an AR and a pistol. All our weapons are constantly loaded and ready, and can be plainly seen as such.
Each child thus knows and understands that there is always a father, their own or that of one of one of their schoolmates, there with them in the classroom all the time, and he is able, willing, and committed to defending them with his life.
We consider this system the only logical and effective solution to our security challenges. Again, it is as low-profile as we can reasonably make it, and from the outside, a casual observer can’t see any of this, but all of us, children, parents, teachers, and administrators know, and are thankful for, what we have put in place. And, as you might say, we don’t care who likes it!”
Americans are responding to the latest mass-murder incident, not with cries for additional restrictions on our freedom, but by going out and buying guns! ARs, XCRs, PTRs, SIG/556s, Kalashnikovs, M1As, et al, as well as magazines and ammunition, are currently being bought-up so quickly, dealers can’t keep them in stock.
Even requiem anti-gun editorials are currently muted, as Americans are in no mood to be piously lectured by media elitists and political gas-bags alike, that we are too stupid to own guns!
The Jewish Community, at least in the case described above, is smart enough to perceive real problems and come up with real solutions, not just the same old tired, fictitious, worthless fluff suggested by most politicians.
Good show, guys!
I would be HONORED to do the same at a public school if such things were legal. Afterall in my state all able bodied men over the age ofmjority are technically the militia. They do this same thing in Israel with no problems; why is the US any different?
Because our schools are run by “Progressives”!
Funny that they call themselves progressives while moving us backwards.
I’m not Jewish but I would gladly volunteer in that school since public schools don’t believe in keeping our kids safe.
So would I!!!!!!
Hopefully soon we can legally!!!
Same in my state, where it is legal to keep a gun locked in your car on school property. If it came to it, some of us parents could form a car patrol. We’d probably be denounced.
I really hope every possible gun is bought off the shelves in the next two weeks. Our willingness to spend money is the strongest message we can possibly send to Washington. I will be making another purchase tomorrow.
I live in NYC, am Jewish, and wish we could do the same. Unfortunately, even if my school wasn’t composed by anti gun liberals, (my school is mostly middle eastern Jews who don’t have ancestors who survived the holocaust) it would be illegal. I think it’s a great idea, and should be implemented in schools across the country
“…we have elected not to do what is currently common in this civilization: (1) pretend threats don’t exist…”
Since Americans are more likely to die in a car crash than from a gun, I guess that means they’re going to be selling their cars and walking the kids anywhere they need to go too? Or are they just looking for an excuse to take time off work to appear to be a badass to their kids?
And how long do you think it’ll be till one of these guys has a negligent discharge and kills a kid? Probably a lot sooner than their imagined mad man showing up there.
Haters gonna hate…
And with a date formatted DD-MM-YY, what country did this “east coast”er reside in?
dd-mm-yy is a common date format for anyone with military, or government contract experience. I did not serve, but I did work as a maintenance contractor, and my father is USN (ret.) with 24 years, and also writes his dates in this format.
We’re both 100% American.
Military, FLAME DELETED I’m retired and still write all my dates that way. I think the proper format you meant is DD MMM YY, not your DD-MM-YY.
You’re right, I meant the DD MMM YY format.
a) Why is that relevant? Other than the hatred of the “other” so typical of the “liberal”. I was born in America, have always been an American citizen, and spent a decade in Israel. The fact that I picked up this mode of writing dates while there does not speak to my citizenship, morals, or ability with firearms. And even if the writer was not an American citizen, why would that be germane to this thread?
b) Would Matt approve of having an armed LEO or security guard in the school? Or in a bank? Or protecting an armored car delivery? Or patrolling the business district in Manhattan? Or acting as a bodyguard for “celebrities”? What about the risk to innocent bystanders, or the risk of a “negligent discharge?”
And other than their “license to kill”, and get away with assault and murder, what makes the LEO better than any competent American citizen? [From a rational, liberty-oriented POV, not a statist authoritarian one.]
c) BTW, anybody who follows the news, including on this site, knows that the chances of a “negligent” discharge among the vast number of citizen gun-carriers is vanishingly small. Among LEOs, on the other hand, it seems to be more common.
What gives you the impression im a liberal? From wikipedia “Liberalism (from the Latin liberalis) is a political philosophy or worldview founded on the ideas of liberty and equality.”. It is well known here that i dont believe in equality.
I never said a LEO would do any better. You must be new here because i’m well known to call them gun grabbing welfare queens.
Anyone who follows the news here knows the chances of a ND are far greater than those of encountering a spree killer.
matt’s not a liberal or a conservative. He’s a racist and an antisemite.
Glad you brought that up.Modern automobiles are equipped with traction control, airbags in the steering wheel,dashboard,AND roof rails,and in some cases certain cars even have lane departure and laser guided cruise control.We realize the risk cars pose,which is why we buckle our seatbelts and purchase vehicles crash tested by agencies funded with our tax dollars.By comparison the risk of a spree shooter attacking a school is no less real then a car crash-yet there are no socially acceptable and effective measures on place to mitigate the risk, as there are with cars.While this school is to be commended for “buckling their seatbelts” as it were, a majority of learning institutions will refuse on principle to take any steps at realistic security. Those schools which bar armed defense are akin to morons who jump into a Chevy Camaro and do 120mph without their seatbelts on.
Even with all those safety features, more people die every year from cars than guns. Last time I was in a accident, head on with another car, where both were doing about 30mph, my airbags didnt deploy.
The risk of a spree shooter is far less than a auto death. And what prevents one of these fathers from becoming a spree shooter? Parents killing their children and then themselves isnt unheard of.
Yet,as a small town in Connetticutt knows all too well , the risk is not zero. Worse the nature of a spree shooting means its an entirely unpredictable event.You and I can safely assume that we wont be involved in an auto crash unless we’re near or inside of a car. Yet a spree shooting can literally happen anywhere,including your living room.
My point is this:in the 1950s and 60s the deaths from car crashes reached a point where we as a society said we’d had enough.Today even the most basic car sold has multiple safety features.
Life is risky.Taking precautions is thus only a wise thing to do.Car crashes are the most common way people end up in the hospital, so the management of that risk means buying a safe car and driving responsibly.Management of an unpredictable armed attack requires you or a nearby agent be armed also.
So it’s me and my wife’s anniversary. We go up to North Conway, n.h. We get a bite at a steak restaurant and there is a blatant local sitting behind me. This guy is spewing off racial obscenities at an alarming and almost comedic rate. But the one thing he did say is “people can say what they want about the Jews, but they take care of their kids”.
Take from that what you will. And move away if you don’t like guns. The south will try to succeed again if we try to take their guns. And I’d be with them.
I control where my car goes and what it does. Much like I control where my gun goes and what it does. Safety and care operating either mitigate user error being the cause of accidents with either. That small percentage of times when my safety is risked because of someone else’s car or gun I don’t want to be left out to dry with no protection. I think we can agree it would be statistically better to be hit by a car while in another car than as a pedestrian. Much like I would rather be armed if/when someone else tries to threaten my safety or that of my family with a gun.
A auto accident can happen in your living room too.
Or when youre flying in a plane.
So what are they doing to address the risk of one of the armed fathers becoming a spree shooter, or having a negligent discharge? Apparently nothing. As I said before, it seems they are doing this to impress their kids.
If one of the fathers wanted to become a spree shooter, he would do it whether he was permitted to have the weapon at the school or not. You are using the flawed logic that the presence of the firearms increases the chance of malicious use. The risk of intentional malicious use is the same whether weapons are permitted in the school or not. Now, I will grant you that the chance of a negligent discharge goes up if the fathers are carrying weapons in the school. Obviously, if there is no weapon present, you can’t have a negligent discharge.
Jews have been the group of people most hated and hurt in history. Every time there was a problem they got blamed. They were murdered and slaughtered and the only reason Jews as a people managed to survive is the fact that they spread out. If one village of them was put to death in one country, the other villages in other countries still lived.
Not that long ago, leaders in Hungary were calling for lists of powerful Jews. Europe is in shambles due to the fact the overwhelming majority refuse to take spending cuts. Germany is raising its retirement age as other countries lower them.
Bad stuff is coming, and its coming fast. Anyone with eyes can see that. These men might not ever have to use their guns, and I pray to God that they never have to use them.
History repeats itself, and sadly for the Jewish people, history repeating means Jews dying.
The number of Slavs killed in Holodomor is greater than the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. When you factor in Soviet battle deaths, the number of Slavs killed in WW2 is far greater than the number of Jews killed. So it is hard to say they are the most hurt.
Greece lost about 10% of its population during WW2, most of them through starvation.
There were a lot more Slavs than Jews.
The Nazis, the greatest racists of all time, considered both slavs and Jews as “subhuman”. Having known some Klansmen in my youth I know that they also consider Jews and Slavs to be non white.
Beats the hell out of me how any slav, knowing any of this, could in turn be a racist. I guess if you beat a dog hard enough he’ll lick your hand.
Imagine if all schools had been run like this for the last 13 years. How many kids would have been killed by psycho shooters? Add up the deaths from probable negligent discharges and do some comparisons.
How many Columbine and Sandy kids would still be alive with armed guards in the classrooms? You do the math.
How many kids would have been killed by psycho shooters?
The same, because the psycho would have known to kill the single armed guard first.
Which argument makes any police protection, of anything or anyone, by less than an armed squad, useless.
Matt, perhaps the armed guard would see the attacker walking up with a rifle and would be able to defend himself and the kids. Make sense?
And if armed guards indeed carry rifles, as they should, they would have a reasonable advantage over an attacker with a concealed pistol, possibly even if they were surprised.
And perhaps the guard wouldnt. Also what prevents the guard is the spree killer? It isnt unheard of for parents to kill their children before they kill themselves.
Negligent discharge Matt, really?
I would assume these fathers are reasonably trained and wont be walking around with their finger on the trigger while pointing it at a kid.
And you nailed it. All cars should be banned of course! Or perhaps the govt should limit all cars to 15mph from the factory.
I would assume DEA agents are “reasonably trained and wont be walking around with their finger on the trigger” either, however this video proves otherwise
MikeB Jr, if you think DEA or police are “reasonably trained”, you’ve obviously never read the news. Their incompetence is everywhere.
I didnt see where he killed a kid in that video. Yep, he was an idiot for a second there. But even he was pointing the weapon in a safe position,for the kids, and no death resulted even from a discharge.. I like those odds, rather than no protection from crazy people with rifles.
Totenglock, have you never seen any of my posts here which were critical of the police? Hell I call them gun grabbing welfare queens all the time.
matt was a negligent discharge.
I laughed so hard I almost cried.
I’m with C5!
OMG Ralph!!! I have learned to read your comments with plastic over my keyboard, or at least not drink soda.. lol
matt, what you are saying says alot more about you than you realize; you are saying that YOU are not capable of providing effective defense for yourself or your children, it’s called transference.
For people who are confident in thier abilities, like most people who here at this site, we trust that other citizens, as proven through statistics, can be trusted to use a weapon wisely and with in law.
I would suggest Matt, that you go out and get some self-defense classes, get some confidence in your self, it might change your perspective.
This post to you matt was further up the post, but it ended up down here, but your example of the the DEA agent being an arrogant elitist public master being an idiot and not a public servant simply reenforces what I said,if you had confidence in your ablities you would know that a small percentage of people are careless and stupid, but, again,statistics show that of those with a CCL, a fraction of ONE percent lose thier license because of some criminal infraction, unlike the cop, a citizen with a negligent discharge in public would lose thier license, if not go to jail, which is why , I believe cops do these types of things, they know there will be no consequence.
So once again matt, your posting shows your lack of confidence in yourself, not anyone else.
I dont have a problem with myself. But I find the idea that some random father with a AR thinks he can effectively protect a school from a spree killer to be hilarious, especially when there are much greater threats which they routinely ignore.
What I find interesting matt is this common perception among anti-gun people like yourself that a spree killer that usually dosen’t have much experience shooting a gun in your mind becomes an unstoppable killing machine, but a law abiding citizen with some gun handling experience is completely helpless in the face of this mad man.
Like I said matt, it’s obvious that you have little confidence in the ability to defend yourself, maybe take a hand gun defense course and realize you can make a difference.
I’m not anti-gun, I own several. I’m not against CC or OC either, but I dont believe these parents walking around schools with a AR are going to make things any safer either.
Yeah, it’s not like any school shootings have happened recently. . .
As often happens your emotions are causing you to write gibberish. Most things have some degree of risk to them. Jewish schools in America have been attacked and people murdered. Those people are not hiding in their homes. They are taking reasonable safety and security actions. The safe handling of a gun almost guarantees that no accidental discharge will occur.
matt, go take your meds and go back to sleep.
matt, if I read the story correctly, there was an armed father in every classroom, not one for the whole school!
You appear to be correct, I must have over looked that.
It would please me immensely if more schools and parents too such an active interest in the defense of their children. While I do not have children, I work between a day care and an elementary, both visible from my desk. And I am aware, especially now, of the vulnerability of both institutions. With that in mind, I pay careful attention to anyone moving through my field of view over course of the day. Because vigilance is the price of safety.
Sorry but I don’t buy it. Each father takes off of work several times a month? Lets call it 3 days per month, 8 months per year. That’s 24 days off per dad.
Now lets assume the school is K-6. Assume one class per grade level and its stated that each classroom has an armed dad. That’s 7 dads per day. There’s about 20 school days per month. So by my math there would be 140 slots per month, of which each dad takes 3 slots per month. Voila! There’s an estimated minimum 47 dads involved in this school defense program taking 24 vacation days per year to support this.
How do all these dads have jobs that get at least 24 days of vacation that they can burn at their child’s school? Unless this is in the East Coast of Israel, I’m not buying it.
Let’s see… I have 15 days paid vacation this year. On Jan 1st I will have another 15 days. I can use those days as follows: 7 days in the first part of the year(Jan to June) then summer break and then use the other 8 days between Sep and Christmas break in Dec.
In two years I will have 4 weeks vacation(20 working days) so then can go 10 & 10. And yes I would use every day to help guard and protect the school children.
I would even go to work for the school as an Armed Guard and take whatever training they would require. I already have and have had my CHCL license for my state and am a 15 yr Army combat arms veteran.
There are Vets and Retired LEO’s, fathers and grandfathers like me all over the country who are ready and willing to do whatever it takes to protect the children.
Well done! Because of our travel schedule my children are home schooled. If they weren’t this would be my next logical step.
Last post disappeared. I estimate that 47 dads would each have to take 24 vacation days from work to support this program. I’m not buying it.
If its 94 dads its only 12 days off work a year. If its 186 dads, its only 6. Or, if you, you know, think outside the box, its exactly no days off work. “Hey boss, I got a thing with my kid on the 12th, 18th, and 24th of January, I need those days off work. Can you schedule me those days off? Thanks.”
Every job I’ve had will usually compromise with you if you give them enough of a heads up. And it sounds like this is the sort of thing that’s worked out weeks, if not months, ahead of time.
Active shooter got you down? Serpentine!
That was perfect! I needed that.
What about colocating all newly built schools, police depts, fire depts & EMT/ambulance as much as possible? I realize this doesn’t help for things that are already built, I’m just wondering if going forward this would be a good idea? I realize there probably are risks (how to get fire/police out to a remote problem quickly when kids are arriving for school – maybe a spoked wheel config would fix that) but it would seem there are benefits to having the police, fire dept, EMT’s closer to our unprotected kids. I’m not saying that this is the best solution, just maybe one idea that would help going forward? Other +’s/-‘s to this idea?
There are far more schools than police departments…
In NYC, one of the most violence-plagued high schools in the city is close to City Hall and the central police station at 1 Police Plaza. Doesn’t seem to help.
Sell all public schools to private institutions. Repeal all taxes that fund schools. Let parents home school or send children to private schools. If you choose to send your children to a private school, you can pick one that arms the teachers or has parents/relatives that provide security. In high schools you can teach the older/mature students to do the same. This will not only resolve the problem of free fire zones we currently have but will give us better education of our children and teachers and schools will have to earn their money by producing well taught students. No government solution to a govt. created problem and it will cost less. A lot less. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9PEqmpGK9k
I’m not Jewish, but I already know that when my kids are old enough to attend school, I will be definitely taking time off to volunteer.
As far as school volunteers go, it’s by and large mostly women. Fathers are absent, and that’s unfortunate… more companies, workplaces, etc. should be making it easier for men to be present in their kids’ lives.
Our guards at work (Federal building) are constantly training and shooting. I’ve had quite a few convos with them about different guns, ranges in the area, etc. I’d trust them with my life, good to see Fathers protecting kids.
How does this work with Gun-Free School Zones Act? Aren’t they technically breaking the law?
You mean there is already a law in place that prevents guns from being in schools?
There are exceptions in the federal law for CCW holders or those authorized by school officials. Many state laws are more restrictive.
To be more precise, the exception for CCW holders only applies if the license requires training. A CCW holder in NH, which issues with no preconditions, would not qualify
In this case it is a private school, and thus private property. they can do as they please.
I wonder if we could get away with guarding schools in Tennessee. I dont recall the exact words to that specific law as I have no kids or business at a school except for work to which I can not carry anyways.
Its something to the effect that you can carry on school grounds in your vehicle as long as you do not exit the vehicle and enter the building. I think it is more specific though to dropping off and picking a child up, Im not sure off hand. If not though, having CC’ers take shifts during days off from work could be a loophole to provide armed protection (in the parking lot mind you).
Running inside to engage an active shooter would put you in a bad legal situation but to save a childs life? Worth it.
It appears that while the last election was a collective collapse of intelligence on the national level, on the local level, common sense is bubbling to the surface:
Makes me proud to be from St. Louis. Someone in authority who has finally figured out (and spoke it out loud) that schools are Kill Free Zones!
I would gladly volunteer at the local schools if it was legal. And the only reason matt, our proud racist is mouthing off is because of the fact that it was a Jewish school.
As far as mental illness and guns being a bad mix we have matt as a sterling example. I was under the impression that he had been banned from this site. Oh well.
He mouths off about everything. Heck, half the time I agree with him. This isn’t one of those times but if you’re going to cry racism any time someone disagrees with you I”m not going to feel too bad for you if you kill a minority defending your property and people drop the “racist” tag on you.
Scott, in matt’s case he hung the label on himself many posts ago and since, He proclaimed he was a racist and proud of it too. And as a side note every time that I’ve shown a gun to a badguy, outside of military service, the bad guy has been white.
I applaud the community getting together to try and protect their children Their solution works for them. We can debate their soluton to the cows come home.
The key to take away from this conversation is gun free zones do not protect your children. CC is a deterrent even if no one is carrying. You never know who may be armed. Sad we have come to this but all the mass shootings are in gun free zones becuase no one can shoot back. I have several friends that are police officers and we do have them in our pulbic schools. There is nothing the police could have done to prevent anything once the bullets start flying. There needs to be some sort of presence in the schools either CC or a police offer. They all felt this would not have happened if CC was allowed or a police officer was there.
I think this is great though I think the mothers, teachers, and school staff should also be armed (and maybe they are). Is an armed father sitting in the back of ‘each’ classroom the ideal place to be? What about patrolling the halls and school grounds so they can deal and stop a threat before it reaches the classroom? Obviously, details are unknown and limited to armchair quarterbacking. I don’t get the sense that the photo above ties in with the actual school described. If the school is Hasidic (ultra-orthodox) I can see how those people can orchestrate their schedules to take time off since the families closely support each other and generally speaking they often do not work corporate type jobs.
Good for them! Even if it is impossible to stop mass killings entirely, let’s at least move them away from our children.
We should arm the teachers. i just saw a pic. someone posted on my FB page. It was a Israeli teacher with her students. She had a rifle slung across her back to use to protect her students. I know in Israel most young people have to go into the IDF so they receive training. If there was a private school near where I live I would help send my grandkids there and also stand guard on my days off. I salute this father.
Can someone from the great state of Texas confirm — I believe that in Texas they have school district police departments. These are TCLEOSE certified police officer for the state of Texas who have a slim responsibility directly related to schools and nothing else.
This is a case, where they have evaluated their options, and concluded what the best course of action should be. There is NOTHING WRONG with this. Yes this is a Jewish school and it smacks in the face of American Jews, who for the most part are anti gun. This is a group, yes it is religiously cohesive which realizes their personal action and volunteering is best for their children’s safety.
If this type of plan could be implemented nation wide, it would be wonderful, and it wouldn’t cost the tax payers much at all.
The British would never allow armed guards in Jewish Schools.
Jewish Schools have reinforced bulletproof windows, locked gates at all times.
However Islamists in the UK hate Jews, and if they somehow decided thatet proof windows and locked gates added to this a sophisticated entry device would not put them off, therefore they were dedicated sufficiently to break in and kill those schoolchildren because they hate Jews. Therefore Ithink that it is more than appropriate for all Jewish Schools to have armed guards as the threat from Muslim-extremists is real, although as far as the British government is concerned armed guards for Jewish Schools will never come into effect because they don’t want to upset the sensitivities of the Bitish Muslims, whereby it’s better in the longrun for Jewish school kids to be killed then upset the Muslims.