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Have you heard of States United to Prevent Gun Violence? Yeah, neither had we. But the civilian disarmament org had a brainstorm; set up a gun store in New York City. Then, when customers inquire about a specific firearm, tell them about a particularly heinous crime that had previously been committed with that model. Yes, the unsuspecting clients probably should have been alerted that something was up . . .

by the mere presence of a gun store in Manhattan. Be that as it may, SUPGV captured a brilliant bit of guerrilla theater to use as agitprop to further their anti-civil rights cause. As that was the goal, mission accomplished.

Of course, never do they tell their unsuspecting patrons about all the other times — orders of magnitude more — that those same guns have been used to prevent rapes, assaults, robberies, murders…in short, to save lives. Doing so would have done some real violence…to their narrative. And God knows we can’t have that.

[h/t DrVino]

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  1. Like Sleeper 13 productions , like David Gregory in DC on National TV , the law does not seem to ever be enforced against the anti’s. Their messaging is so slick , because they have zero problem LYING all the time . Beat them back with truth. Push pro gun laws in every state. When the feared ‘ wild west ‘ does not happen, more and more people on the fence realize Freedom and personal responsibility go hand in hand.

    • So, why didn’t the poor victims of this awful gun crime just dial 911? Oh, they did, but law enforcement didn’t show up in time to protect them? Well, I guess that means I need a gun too, right? Very effective sales pitch, if you ask me.

    • It would be ironic if one of the store’s propaganda victims commented that they thought it was illegal to sell guns that were used to commit a murder and call the ATF right there at the store to report the suspected illegal activity.

        • Gentlemen, gentlemen, thank you for your kind offer. If I may keep the same illegal theme as those law breakers who set up the above video, I might as well go with a real (and illegal) Cuban Montecristo!

      • Hey Dan, has anyone sent this off to the DA in New York. If those were real guns and magazines, this is a crime. In fact multiple crimes. Even if they were movie guns, in the environment shown it still might be illegal.

        • It’s NYC.

          The people who will be doing the ‘looking’ are leftists.

          Foxes watching the hen-house.

        • Yeah, and I’ll bet they ran afoul of the ATF as well. If they didn’t have an FFL, then they are in deep sh!t for selling firearms commercially without a license. If they had an FFL, I’ll bet they are still in deep sh!t for not actually being serious about selling firearms for a legitimate business/profit.

          And how about the person operating the counter? Do they have a New York state and New York City pistol permit? If not, they violated the law every time they handed a firearm to a patron for inspection. And did every single patron have a pistol permit? If not, then they are guilty of conspiracy to handle firearms without a license.

          All involved should quite literally be facing decades in prison. And if the ATF and prosecutors refuse to enforce the law on these people, then we should argue every case in court and appeal every case in court on the grounds that the laws are capricious.

        • I bet that the act of offering to sell someone a gun illegally, even if the gun is a counterfeit, is still a crime. It will be interesting to see if the fed or NYPD moved on that.

        • Looking at the 1911 and the shotgun, some of them were fake (airsoft or otherwise), but I’ve never seen a fake Hexmag, so we could get them on the mags.

  2. So, I am wondering if in fact all the guns are real, are they in compliance with all NY state and city rules. It looks like there are a couple of evil black rifles on the wall there with 30 round mags. Are the folks doing this “sting” using firearms that would be considered illegal there? You wouldn’t want another Gregory situation there. Y’know using an “illegal” hi-cap mag on a tv show to prove a point and all……

  3. It can’t be cheap to set up shop in Manhattan. I doubt they are really selling any merchandise. Who’s paying for this? !!

  4. Ok so set up a storefront selling hammers with tags on them relating to murders committed with similar hammers because freaking hammers kill more people in the US than guns.

    But seriously, how many people schooled these toolbags and those visits didn’t make the final edit?

    • According to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, 8,855 people were murdered with firearms in 2012. In the same year, the report says only 518 people were murdered with blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.).

      • Given the choice, I’d rather be murdered with a firearm than a blunt object. Just think, if those people killed by a firearm hadn’t been killed by a firearm, they would still be alive and not die from anything else! Only old people with health insurance die, and they would’ve lived if they hadn’t eaten butter, bacon, sugar, salt and gluten.

        • I’ve seen statements similar to “hammers kill more people in the US than guns” in comments several times. It’s not true, and it doesn’t help our side to spread misinformation like that.

          I think it got started from comments about hammers, clubs, etc… killing more people than rifles/assault rifles, which is true.

        • You are correct David Davis — criminals killed more people with bludgeons than all long guns (rifles and shotguns).

      • I’m assuming that what he meant to say was that
        more people are murdered with hammers or blunt objects
        than were assaulted and murdered with rifles.
        That particular factoid gets a little scrambled from time to time.

      • The analogy is that hammers, blunt instruments kill more people than ‘ASSAULT RIFLES’, not all gun murders.

      • That’s so completely incorrect. Maybe the numbers are correct for “blunt object” as defined by “A club or hammer” but that sure as hell doesn’t include pipes, baseball bats, chairs, vases, lamps, rocks, pillows, plastic bags, ropes, and on and on. Also way more people get killed by stagnation and knives. I also would like to see the actual deaths cased by bullets vs guns. I imagine people are bludgeoned to death more times then not with a firearm and it technically falls under killed with “firearm”. I would like to see an honest study of “murders” caused by bullets vs caused by something else. No suicide, accident stuff. Then we can talk honestly.

    • As David Davis points out, that particular stat is incorrect. I think it stems from the fact that more people are killed with hammers (ok, blunt objects) than are killed with rifles, and by extension ‘assault weapons.’ But somewhere along the line the wires got crossed and the stat got muddled.

  5. Do they sell the gun used by Lon Horiuchi to shoot Vicki Weaver in the face while unarmed and holding a baby ??? Just Asking . Ban the BATF , see HR 1329 ( Sensenbrenner )

  6. They are definitely employing the Alinsky playbook in their disarmament quest. This is slick, expensive, Madison Avenue PR, a la stop smoking campaign. However, unlike cigarettes, there are numerous positive side effects to firearms. The only way to change the hearts and minds of the people is to bring them into the tent by experiencing guns for themselves. Can you imagine what the video would have turned out to be if it was a “first-time shooters” firing range where newbies are exposed to firearms in a safe environment? I came to firearms later in my life (at 30), and I grew up with a rabidly anti-gun mother, so much so that I was not allowed to play with water guns in my home. Now I carry in her home. The best way to counter the antis’ slick propaganda is to expose people to firearms in a positive manner. Since my conversion, I have made several converts of others. I always offer to take newbies to the range on my own dime. The more I share the love, the more we are all protected from the antis’ emotional strings crap.

      • There was a band out of Houston back in the 80’s called “The Judy’s.” They did a song about THAT Jim Jones called “Guyana Punch.” Kind of twisted, but one of my favorite high school memories.

  7. If their goal is to make people think twice, they’ve succeeded. I play alot of video games and was gonna go buy a copy of GTA 5, but after seeing this I thought twice about it and changed my mind.
    (note: the “gun salesman” in the vid is an actor. his name is Ned Luke, and he plays Micheal DeSanta/Townley in gta 5)

    • Oh, the hypocrisy. Voice a character in a game that glorifies violence and crime, then shame people about wanting to own firearms for self defense. I can proudly say I’ll never own a copy of GTA V either.

    • Why did you have to point that out? I love GTA and I have no problem with it as I am a grown ass adult that can separate fiction from reality. Also I believe its protected under the 1st Amendment the same way The Godfather and Good Fellas is. Well I guess that’s a name I need to put on the list with Jim Carrey, Sylvester Stallone and so on of people to not support.

  8. I call BS on this. For those that are not familiar with NYS gun laws, IT IS ILLEGAL FOR SOMEONE WITHOUT A VALID NYS PISTOL PERMIT TO HANDLE A HANDGUN. Period. Full stop. It is ILLEGAL. Go to any gunshow or real gunstore and the FIRST thing they will ask is “can I see your permit”.

    Sooo, either these are ALL actors and those are prop guns, or they just documented multiple crimes. Let’s see if the Manhattan DA Cyrus Vance investigates and prosecutes

    • My first thought as well. Doubtful that any of it was filmed in NYC – probably the whole thing was done on a Hollywood soundstage, with a full complement of actors.

    • Hoooly crap, I was about to say the same thing. If those “buyers” aren’t actors I will eat my work boots! You would think that in NYC they could at least find some that are convincing!

    • Do Not Give Free Publicity to these pukes. It is what they count on. Only point out all the laws BROKEN. Follow the money back to daddy Bloom-Bucks.

  9. Another emotional appeal by the anti-2A crowd – their one and only tool to win over the hearts and minds of the American public.

  10. Looking around the good ol’ internet, New York seems to be one of those states that mandates the destruction of any gun with a criminal record. I don’t know of any states where guns used criminally can be resold to the general public, though perhaps it’s allowed somewhere. I skimmed the video, whiny guilt trips annoy me, but he seems to say that the guns he’s selling are the exact ones used in accidents and crimes, rather than saying ‘this is the same model as’.
    Anyone in NY who hears that the gun they’re looking at also has crimes attached to it would have it in their best interest to leave the shop and call the police, because that place is clearly selling illegal firearms.

    Actually, now I wonder if the police were called on them at any point. Did they have an FFL, since they appear to be selling actual guns? Are they in compliance with state regulations? Or did they just lease a space and set up shop, not caring about any of the regulation around owning and operating a firearm shop?

  11. Half of those stories could have been entirely different had good people not been restricted from carry guns in the areas the atrocities took place.

  12. That whole thing was probably scripted. The sound was too good for a hidden camera setup, and so was the lighting.
    Also, none of the guns had serial numbers in the normal places, so it looks like they were props.

    • It is a hoax. The “salesman” describes the stainless/nickel plated single-action revolver as a .22 caliber revolver with a 6 inch barrel. First of all, that revolver does not have a 6 inch barrel — it has a 4 or maybe a 5 inch barrel. More importantly, if you look around the 1:30 mark, you get a nice view of the muzzle and chambers of the cylinder where you will notice that the chambers look to be at least .38 Special caliber and possibly even .44 Special. Whatever they are, they are way too large to be .22 caliber.

      That alone discredits the entire video.

  13. I highly doubt this will happen, but I REALLY hope these guys get royally fucked by a lawsuit. I mean, Eric Holder will probably try to defend these guys, but one can hope.

  14. So… That sure looks like 30 round mags on the ARs on the wall. I assume all of these people are currently serving time in NY state prison.

  15. Imagine this in a car dealership. Guy goes up to see the sticker price: “This Prius was used to run over a 5 year old boy. How dare you consider purchasing a car you child killing monster!”

      • No our overlords thankfully limited it’s horse power to 10 in order to protect us from the evil more powerful engines.

    • I was just about to post the same sentiment. This car at the dealership killed a family of four, this iPhone at the AT&T store bullied a teen to suicide, someone overdosed on this prescription drug from CVS, this laptop from Best Buy downloaded kiddie porn…

    • You got that right.

      How about a liquor store that shames customers with stories like “This is the same beer that 14-year-old Timmy drank himself to death with.”

      Or why not set up a fake Apple Store and shame buyers by telling them that this is the same laptop that some sleepy perv uses somewhere to look at child pornography?

      Do any of you TTAG-ers think that the “buyers” in any of those setups (or Scrubula’s) would respond with “Gee, I didn’t know. I sure won’t buy a Prius/ShockTop/MacBook now”? More likely, the response would be “What kind of sicko are you?”

      Shamers gonna shame. I never could stand ’em, the sanctimonious pricks.

  16. Is that supposed to be the whole store? I’m thinking fake–I mean, like the whole thing is a fake, not just the store.

  17. Notice the diversity of the people who went inside… a least now we know 2A supporters aren’t all just white rednecks.

  18. Wow. What a terrible salesman. I hope his salary isn’t made up entirely of commission, because his kids will die of starvation before he can put food on the table.

    But at least he’ll be comfortable in knowing that they weren’t hit by lightning, or eaten by a shark, or accidentally shot, which are all statistically in about the same area.

  19. 1) I’m pretty sure police all use gun models that have been used to murder people. Maybe they should protest 1 Police Plaza.

    2) Where does this group’s funding come from?

    • Hint: he used to be mayor of a certain city, was related to a former governor and had a TV network-empire.

      You guessed it: Frank Stallone!

  20. My money is on an “all actors” presentation.

    If they can do it for “Cheaters” and “Mystery Diner”, why not do it for Bloomberg?

    Oh yeah, love the comment: “This gun actually killed somebody? Good. Then I know it works. I’ll buy it.” Comedy gold right there.


  21. OK, one more comment: Should someone set up a storefront in which an actor portraying a robber or mass shooter bursts in and starts killing people? The unsuspecting customers/test subjects can then choose to defend themselves (or not) by picking up a dropped Glock or throwing pencils at the assailant.

    I would love to put SUPGV’s board of directors into that scenario. They could try shaming the shooter.

  22. “You don’t want to be the Walmart case.”

    Wrong. I don’t want to be the dad in Connecticut who had to testify against the raping murders of his teenage daughters and wife during a home invasion. That he was a defenseless eye witness and victim of.

  23. set up a gun store… when customers inquire about a specific firearm, tell them about a particularly heinous crime that had previously been committed with that model.
    You never know, this might be a selling feature.

  24. Typical leftist collectivist thought. They think just because they believe I’m part of a group (gun users) I am going to feel guilty about the acts of someone else in that group.

    You can’t make me feel guilty for another man’s actions.

    They don’t even REMOTELY understand how I think. Utter fail here, stupid tactic stupid cause.

  25. True story: 2 days ago I’m at my “gun friend”s house with my wife just spending some time fellowshiping, having a conversation when he says “Oh, I have to show you this” and brings out a blue Smith & Wesson pistol box.
    Opens it up, clears the weapon and hands me a nice 1911 in .45acp, says “yeah, I just got that back from the police”
    (gun is still in my hand at this point. I return the slide to battery, admiring the finish and light weight for a .45)
    “Yeah, they’ve had it about 6 months”
    “My brother-in-law killed himself with it- I got most of the blood off except in this hole here you can see a little bit…”
    (I hand it back)
    My wife probably would have freaked out a little if she was the one holding it but she only made me wash my hands. I have no superstitious feelings about an item like this and would have gladly taken it off his hands for a good ‘tainted’ price. I do not believe there is a law that would require disclosing this gun as a suicide piece.

    Be safe, everybody!

  26. The customers should have replied “YOU’RE SELLING STOLEN GUNS USED IN CRIMES! It would also be interesting to find out how they got these guns in the first place.

  27. Can you imagine their twitter/fb feeds later after someone reads this page… “GUN EXTREMISTS WANT TO BUY MURDER WEAPONS… Quote ‘at least we know they work’… oh the horror! These sound like the same people that didnt want equal rights for blacks in the last century! Makes my blood boil at the bs they spew. End rant

    • Some things never change. The democrats were the ones that passed all of the hate blacks legislation since before the civil war. KKK ditto. Democrats first started passing antigun laws to keep blacks from owning them. I think it was Louisiana that banned blacks from owning dogs for fear they would train them to attack white people.

      Now the dems er excuse me “Progressives” want to expand anti gun laws to basically also cover whites who don’t agree to their statist view of the world.

  28. How is this legal? If it wasn’t a real FFL (and what real FFL would cooperate in destroying his business), then aren’t they operating an illegal storefront (assuming the customers are real). Even were the guns all fake isn’t there some fraud going on?

    • Josh,
      I believe even movie prop guns are regulated as they are usually modified functional weapons. Also NY has laws requiring even toy guns to have red painted barrels on them.

      These guys need to go to jail for a long time with REAL criminals.

  29. I don’t know who these guys are either, but way to keep it classy. I will never understand why people try to scare others of guns when motor vehicles kill more than guns ever will in the states

  30. If it is in NYC then they are in a world of hurt. Every time someone held a handgun without a handgun license they were committing a Felony, PL 265.01 at least. The person supplying the gun would also be committing a felony. Many of the guns on the wall even if they are not real would still be illegal in NYC because they don’t have the required orange tip and if they are BB/Pellet/air soft guns, they are also illegal and totally banned in NYC. If the ARs are real, they are also illegal to own. Transporting them into the city would also be illegal as would bringing the mags and ARs into NY state because they can’t buy them in the city or in NY State. I have no idea how many laws they violated. It would take a lawyer to do that.

  31. Do they do car dealerships as well? Maybe stand in front of crack houses to warn people of the legal and personal problems it entails?

  32. Gee, if the clerk in this phony store had told me that a weapon in which I was interested was the same sort of weapon as had been used to commit some heinous act, I would have asked, “But what does that have to do with me?” Was this store actually prepared to sell a gun to a determined buyer? What of New York State;s Sullivan Act, which makes the ownership of concealable firearms very difficult? The whole set-up would have seemed very fishy to me,

  33. Upon further review , it seems all guns , real OR replica , REQUIRE permits. Also any offer of sale will need a valid FFL. Plus all proper code regs. met to open the store in the first place. Inspenctions , Fire escapes , Exit lights , etc. Lets see those permits , shall we ?
    Please post the number of the code officer, for that area of the city.

  34. I knew it ! They never filed a form 27-B / stroke 6. Also looks like blatant violation of FC105.6 of latest issue 2014 Fire Code. See ammo in glass counter.

    • Hi, there. I want to talk to you about ducts. Do your ducts seem old fashioned, out of date? Central Services’ new duct designs are now available in hundreds of different colors to suit your individual tastes.

  35. I like the video! They should do the same for car sales, which would be very interesting since there is no Constitutional Right to a car unlike my Right to Bear Arms. Man, I need wings to stay above all the bullshit on the web.

  36. I like how a good chunk of you have failed to notice that the star of this little “psa” is Ned Luke…. Let me say that again… NED LUKE… For those of you who don’t know who ned Luke is, he is the voice actor of Michael townley/de Santa in the fifth installment of Grand theft auto. A game practically about stealing cars and murdering people. Ned Luke in my opinion wouldn’t have been the best choice for someone to represent an anti gun culture. Plus wtf ar-15 from sandy hook shooting? Assuming you even believe that hack job of a red flag, Adam Lanka never even used an ar-15 just handguns it was in the trunk (it hurts just talking like this really happened) this is all some desperate attempt by Bloomberg and Shandon watts at pulling at the emotions of the weak minded people who don’t have a clue how to form a though for themselves. If I walked in a gun store and was told that every gun was used in a murder suicide whatever, first I wouldn’t believe it, second so what I know the gun works and I know my intentions with it. It’s a gun, it’s not possessed to carry out some despicable plot to kill me and my family. I am a responsible gun owner and I’m not some bats shit crazy murderer. So thank you bloomberg and Shandon watts at trying to scare me and make me think that if I buy this this will happen to me. It didn’t work, I think I’ll take all of them.

    • Right! Never mind the fact I remember the “live news” helicopter footage of the “officer” recovering the weapon from the trunk. When he “cleared” the weapon, it sure didn’t look like he removed any magazine, was operating an AR charging handle and if he was, he damn sure didn’t cycle it 30 times.

  37. It is illegal in NY to even hold or touch a handgun if you do not have a pistol permit. I wonder if the weapons were real or just props. These fanatics will stop at nothing to destroy what they do not agree with or endorse.

  38. Idiots, that’s the point, guns are made for killing.

    The SKS’s and UZI on the wall are choir boys compared to the bloody body counts the Mosin Nagant and AK’s have racked up.

  39. I would be interested to see the demographics of the people who came into the store. All thugs and criminals or law abiding citizens looking to protect themselves? I understand it’s not the point of this particular social experiment, but it might be interesting to see how their own exercise matches up with their arguments for gun control.

  40. I don’t believe any of this. Those were actors, as no “Pro 2nd Amendment” New Yorker is going to have their mind changed by this Anti-Gun propaganda garbage. Why not do the same with a bar where every bottle tells a story about vehicular manslaughter while driving intoxicated?

    Why didn’t they have a display setup to showcase what full-auto subs Mike Bloomberg’s bodyguards carry to protect him?

    I’ll never live in New York, period.

  41. It appears to me that the AR-15 that the elder gentleman was holding would be deemed illegal in the great Communist New York. Same for all the semi-auto handguns.

  42. Anyone else catch the airsoft barrel on the “45 automatic”?

    How bout that awful plastic sound when he pumped that shotgun?

    Isn’t there a NY law about making fake guns look real?

    • I’m betting that there are exemptions for theatrical productions, television and film. It would be interesting to see whatever applications these producers made–they undoubtedly would have had to list the address for filming, along with at least some disclosure that they were planning to allow people who walked in to violate the law. Unless those were actors…

  43. Wonder if that shop “owner” had his Class 3 dealer’s license or the tax stamp holder was in the building for that evil submachine gun. If not guess what, that’s a felony mister. Also wondering if it is transferable or really killed anyone, if it’s all good I know some guys that would be in the market for the right price! LOL Liberals… people that can make you laugh and cry at the same time.

  44. Here is what I suggest: Some 2A advocates see if they can get a permit to do something similar to this. Doubtful that will happen in NYC but even if turned down it would show the hypocrisy of this video. IF approved we school folks in just the opposite of these folks. Let them know how many lives are saved every year with guns used for self defense. Let them know that the “fact” that if you own a gun you are more likely to kill or injure someone in your family than someone breaking into your home is a TOTAL lie. Add a few other real facts and then tell them that unfortunately they are NOT allowed to buy a gun to protect themselves because their elected officials have decided that only criminals and mentally ill people are “allowed” to have guns while the rest of us must obey the law and live unprotected in “gun free zones”. Might also tell them how long it takes, on average, for law enforcement to arrive if they are able to call for help. Then interview them when they leave the “store” and ask what they have learned. How about it NRA ?

  45. Please – do send along the statistics of the crimes that have been stopped, the lives that have been saved, the order of magnitude more good that these guns have done in the hands of private citizens than the incredible destruction and loss of life that has happened when these guns have been in the hands of, albeit emotionally disturbed, private citizens. I look forward to reading those statistics.


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