Anti-Gun Politicians Never Want to Talk About How They’ll Actually Confiscate All Those Guns

Beto O'Rourke gun control confiscation

Democratic presidential candidate former U.S. Rep. Beto O’Rourke, D-Texas. O’Rourke’s call to confiscate the millions of AR- and AK-style firearms in the U.S. raised some big questions. How might it be possible to round up all the millions of those rifles in circulation? Could it be done safely? And would it solve the gun violence problem? (AP Photo/Robert F. Bukaty)

By Lisa Marie Pane, Associated Press

Democratic presidential candidate Beto O’Rourke’s recent vow to take away people’s AR-15 and AK-47 rifles raised one big question: How is it possible to round up the millions of such guns that exist in the United States?

The number of AR-15 and AK-47s in the U.S. is estimated at a staggering 16 million, creating logistical challenges to take them out of circulation. Many gun owners are also unwilling to turn over the weapons, and if the government offered to buy them all back at face value, the price tag could easily run into the billions of dollars.

O’Rourke’s pointed declaration during a recent debate — “Hell yes, we’re gonna take your AR-15, your AK-47” — stoked longstanding fears among gun owners that Democrats are less interested in safety or finding a middle ground, and just want to confiscate guns. Even some gun-control advocates aren’t so sure that confiscating firearms will work.

“In some regards, this horse is out of the barn,” said David Chipman, a retired agent with the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and now the senior policy adviser for the Giffords group. “For years we’ve allowed these to be sold.”

O’Rourke’s remarks came in the wake of several high-profile shootings, including two in his home state of Texas that involved AR- or AK-style guns, which resemble military-style weapons and generally carry more rounds than regular rifles. A summer of carnage was marked by shootings in Gilroy, California; El Paso, Texas; Dayton, Ohio; and in a 10-mile stretch between Midland and Odessa, Texas. In all, more than 40 people were killed and about 100 were wounded in the attacks.

The prospect of significant gun measures has faded in recent weeks under the Republican-controlled Senate and President Donald Trump, and Democratic candidates have offered a range of proposals for what they would do on guns if elected president.

O’Rourke believes that most people would follow the law and turn their weapons in under his proposal for a mandatory buyback program and assault weapons ban. He also wants to outlaw high-capacity magazines and expand background checks.

Cory Booker has proposed a similar program that would involve civil penalties for those who fail to comply and hand in their AR-15s. They would not be subject to criminal offenses, however.

There is a precedent for the ideas proposed by O’Rourke and Booker, as difficult as they would be to implement.

The Trump administration recently banned bump stocks — devices that allow semiautomatic long guns to mimic fully automatic fire — and ordered owners to turn them in to be destroyed. But there were only about a half million of those devices, and they cost far less than an AR, which can run upwards of $1,000 or more. The ban was largely based on an honor system, though Washington state did offer a buyback program that quickly exhausted the $150,000 set aside to shell out $150 each device turned in.

In 1994, then-President Bill Clinton enacted an assault weapons ban, at a time when there were an estimated 1.5 million of them in circulation. Existing owners were allowed to keep them, however, and once the ban expired a decade later, sales resumed and boomed.

Machine guns like M-16s were outlawed by Congress in 1986, but they can still be owned under a tightly regulated process. Small numbers remain in circulation, largely because of the restrictions.

Democratic candidates pushing gun buybacks have also pointed to similar moves in Australia and New Zealand. However, the number of AR-style long guns in those countries pales in comparison to the United States, and neither has gun rights enshrined in their constitutions.

Chipman believes an assault weapon ban should be handled similar to the machine gun rules, requiring they be registered and heavily regulated but not confiscated.

“I think it would be far more likely that we would find more of the weapons under comprehensive regulation by the government than sort of a forced buyback ban scenario,” he said.

There’s also the optics of the government taking away guns, presenting another challenge for the Democratic proposals.

The idea of outlawing and then rounding up firearms alarmed many gun owners who believe it will not solve the problem of gun violence and would only serve to take firearms away from law-abiding Americans. They point out that while AR-style guns have been used in some high-profile mass shootings, most gun deaths involve handguns.

“Once you start talking about taking guns away, especially legally owned firearms by responsible gun owners, you’re just going to alienate a whole huge portion of American citizens. They’re just not going to stand for that,” said Chris Waltz, the president and CEO of AR-15 Gun Owners of America. “This is what they feared.”

The marketplace for the guns has shifted as well. Connecticut-based gunmaker Colt announced last week it was ceasing production of AR-15 style rifles for the civilian market, citing a saturated market. The company will keep making the guns for law enforcement, which is a big portion of the market.

Of the estimated 16 million AR-style guns that are in circulation, about half of them are owned by current or former members of the military or law enforcement, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Then, there are the logistics of actually getting millions of firearms handed over. Some law enforcement experts question whether a mass confiscation of firearms could be done effectively or safely.

Even some self-identified liberals who own firearms question the legality of gun confiscation and even the practicality.

“Constitutional rights aren’t based on what you like. What’s the slippery slope of this?” said Lara C. Smith, the national spokeswoman for the Liberal Gun Club, a nonprofit group of liberal gun owners. “If they’re going to take away these rights, what other rights are they going to take away?”

Smith, who lives in San Diego and owns an AR-15, contends that calls for outlawing AR-style firearms are based on ignorance and misunderstanding. The rifles are simply modular, she said, capable of being customized with different grips, adjustable stocks and scopes, for example — features that might give it a military-style appearance, but do not make it any more lethal than any other firearm.

comments

  1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

    That’s easy. By telling our Boys in Blue to do the dirty and dangerous work for them. That’s how Ivory Tower Princes and Princesses do it, donchaknow.

    I mean really, do any of us believe Beto had any idea how his plan would work in the real world?

    1. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      Like “doing something” about climate change, “doing something” about confiscating all the scary black guns will require a police state. And make no mistake, the progressive/fascists are perfectly at home with that idea. Factoid: Jacinda Ardern, the Prime Minister of New Zealand who led the charge on NZ’s “assault weapon” confiscation was, before her election, the head of the International Union of Socialist Youth. Socialists know you just can’t et the proles walk around with all those weapons of war. Just sayin’ . . .

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        My ARs have never been weapons of war (and hopefully never will be) but will quickly become them if I’m ever the target of an act of war. God forbid that act be perpetrated by those who weasel their way into offices of power.

      2. avatar JBS says:

        New Zealand is on the outer fringe of civilization both geographically and intellectually.
        Would you believe that New Zealand has an office entitled Chief Censor?
        This is the kind of government we got rid of in 1776.

        1. avatar California Richard says:

          “For years we’ve allowed these to be sold.” said the former BATF agent….. with people like this in the government, I wonder what it is we got rid of in 1776. An agent of the state saying that the government “allowed” us to do something completely legal and protected in our founding document. Ya, I don’t need to wonder who is coming after our guns. This guy and his ilk are riding that train.

    2. avatar Scott C. says:

      I like the reply one woman gave Beto in Aurora “I’m here to tell you, hell no, you’re not.” In reply to his confiscation message.

    3. avatar SteveO says:

      The mathematics of countering tyranny by Mr. Rawles could provide, to quote Anton Ego, ‘perspective”:

      https://survivalblog.com/mathematics-countering-tyranny/

    4. avatar frank speak says:

      of course not …the sheer numbers make these plans unworkable…..

      1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

        frank speak,

        Whether or not anything is actually workable is irrelevant. The vast, overwhelming majority of people only care about their feelings, passions, and what they want — including what they want to hear.

    5. avatar drunkEODguy says:

      “Of the estimated 16 million AR-style guns that are in circulation, about half of them are owned by current or former members of the military or law enforcement, according to the National Shooting Sports Foundation.”

      Something tells me not even all those blue guys are going to be down for doing that. Nothing to break morale like public vilification and the desertion of half your ranks.

      1. avatar tired of it says:

        ….until there is a LEOSA style exemption written into the ban….

        then a goodly portion of the badged civilians will happily support disarming the unbadged civilians.

        1. avatar Rattlerjake says:

          Exactly right!

  2. avatar jwm says:

    We should all give thanks to beto boy for putting it in plain english. Trump will get a second term and he will continue changing the fed courts.

  3. avatar Mad Max says:

    I think they have vastly underestimated the number of AR-15 rifles in circulation.

    I don’t know anybody that is a gun owner that doesn’t own at least one AR platform rifle.

    Then there are all of those bare lowers and 80% lowers that are also being used to build rifles. I doubt NSSF is catching all of those in their count.

    I would guess it’s closer to 30 to 50 million in circulation.

    1. avatar Gadsden Flag says:

      I own a few firearms. Not an AR among them. I do own a few really reliable, well made and accurate “modern sporting rifles.” Whatever that is.

    2. avatar frank speak says:

      even my congressman owns one….and he’s a democrat….

  4. avatar Rick the Bear says:

    ““For years we’ve allowed these to be sold.” said David Chipman”

    Oh, thank you, Master Chipman, for your amazing kindness and generosity.

    We’re not worthy.

    (Schmuck)

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      “For years we’ve allowed these to be sold.” said David Chipman”

      Exactly who appointed him the crown,a most worthless POS.

    2. avatar napresto says:

      Totally incorrect. The constitution and the bill of rights articulate things that the government cannot do, not things it allows. No one “allowed” these sales; they simply “are,” and there’s nothing Mr. Chipman, Beto, or anyone else can do about it short of provoking a civil war. So let’s not do that, okay fellas? It won’t be nearly as fun as you think it will be, and it dang sure won’t improve public safety.

      1. avatar Joe Vuocoloo says:

        Run for office, I would vote for you. Though I would not wish that on my best friend!

        1. avatar napresto says:

          Hah, thanks! I can’t think of a worse job!

    3. avatar GS650G says:

      I too took note of the smug permissive attitude in that statement.

  5. avatar Hannibal and the Elephants says:

    “AR- or AK-style guns, which resemble military-style weapons and generally carry more rounds than regular rifles.”
    I am not familiar with the “AR- or AK-style guns” the author refers to. My rifles only carry one round, and that is a lot less than others, such as lever action or many bolt action rifles. The rest are carried in a non integral magazine. But, if that is the issue, then my “normal” Ruger 10-22 has 110 round magazines available (more than for “AR- or AK-style guns”). So, what exactly is the point re: “AR- or AK-style guns, which resemble military-style weapons and generally carry more rounds than regular rifles?”

    1. avatar Hannibal and the Elephants says:

      In case any of the resident Fudds get confused, my rifles I allude to are “AR- or AK-style guns, which resemble military-style weapons.”

      1. avatar OBOB says:

        In my case to be funny

        Since the AR15 was sold BEFORE the military got them

        I say “Those military rifles resemble MY AR….”

        1. avatar John in AK says:

          I think that I have this ‘AK-Style’ and ‘AR-Style’ thing figured.

          An ‘AK-Style’ gun has a composite stock, is stainless, and fires large-bore ammunition suitable for bears, moose, caribou, road signs, and things like that there commonly found in Alaska (abbreviation: ‘AK’).

          An ‘AR-Style’ gun has a wood stock, is blued but a little rusty, and comes in two calibers: One is 12-gauge, and the other isn’t. It is suitable for shooting ducks, in-laws, unwilling husbands-to-be, road signs, and people who run afoul of the Clintons, things that are common to Arkansas (abbreviation: ‘AR’).

          There are, of course, other types of gun (‘MA,’ which are invisible, and ‘CA,’ which are neutered,’ as examples), depending upon which state in which they are found.

          Simple, really.

  6. avatar Dennis says:

    It comes under the same heading as”everything will be free!”. They all know it’s not possible, just hoping there are enough stupid people in the country to get em into office!

  7. avatar Dan W says:

    There is a slight irony that a resistance to the kinds of confiscations they want could be conducted with generic hunting rifles.

  8. avatar Otto Lode says:

    as I recall from an article I read a few years ago that broke down the numbers of armed US citizens vs military and LEO who in theory would be tasked with confiscation and assuming all or any military or LEO would take up arms against who they KNOW are law abiding citizens the government forces are outnumbered by a factor of 100,000 to one so if just one gun owner in 100,000 decides to not comply and takes out 1 or more confiscator (and the numbers will be dramatically higher) the SWAT teams will literally all be new rookies with no leaders or trainers and the cycle will repeat each week until there are no more willing to take a job where death is all but guaranteed. Just like China governments biggest fear is the “little people” the USA has the exact same problem whether they will admit it or not

    1. avatar Mad Max says:

      660,000 law enforcement officers (0.2% of the population), 1.2 million active duty military (0.37% of the population) and 800,000 reservists (0.24% of the population), totalling 2.66 million (0.81%)…

      vs.

      3% of the population or 9.84 million; the three percenters

      and/or about 6% of the population or 20 million concealed carry permit holders

      and/or about 30% of the population or 100 million gun owners.

      No matter how you cut it, gun owners vastly outnumber government forces (as the Founders intended).

      1. avatar Ragnar says:

        75% of that 2.66 million government forces will be fighting on the side of the “People”

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          And commandeering as much of the government’s advanced weaponry as possible.

      2. avatar Grizlak says:

        But who has the most fire power thanks to the Gun Control Acts of ’34 and ’68? That makes up for a LOT of the numbers discrepancies!

  9. avatar Leighton says:

    Can’t find and get rid of 20M illegals…no way they are going to find all the guns

    1. avatar arc says:

      Give gun owners a license to hunt down and deport, they will be gone within six months.

    2. avatar Andrew Lias says:

      As Carlin said, they can’t even keep drugs out of schools and prisons.

  10. avatar Leighton says:

    Would not be able to use them at public ranges. Would sit in the safe until the laws were changed again

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      A whole lot of places would become two way public ranges with reactive targets.

      1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

        Point well made.

    2. avatar M1Lou says:

      Basement shooting range. Lots of sound deadner and concrete.

      1. avatar napresto says:

        Think carefully about lead mitigation and air filtering! Don’t want to poison yourself!

  11. avatar Hydguy says:

    There is nothing ‘staggering’ about the number of AR/AK ‘style’ firearms out there. It should be much higher.

    1. avatar Dan W says:

      I think we are working on pumping up those numbers.

      1. avatar Mad Max says:

        And fast thanks to Beto.

    2. avatar Foghorn Leghorn says:

      i read staggering – i thought ‘thats a good start’

  12. avatar CCDWGUY says:

    And the BATFE just said they could not change the description to ban “Bump Stocks” so that appears to be down the drain also. Turn in an AR, not likely and the government never owned them so there is no such thing as a buy-back. Oh and there is that whole Second Amendment thing the seem to be ignoring.
    That’s why they want “Red Flag Laws” so they can, without due process just take them because someone who might know you thinks you are a danger. Good luck with that.

    1. avatar daveinwyo says:

      Just this week the House of Idiots, were working on “red flag laws” and a R wanted to add an amendment to red flag criminals on police “known gang member” data.
      The dims became upset that this was going to hurt their voter base and tossed it out.

      1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

        Yep, saw that.

        1. avatar Ing says:

          Tells you a lot about where the Democrats’ priorities are, doesn’t it.

  13. avatar Brewski says:

    Why is this so difficult?

    Any tyrannical action should immediately lead to disciplinary action for violating the Oath of Office, if repeated, they should be removed from office and lifetime barred from political service to prevent further embarrassment to the country.

    Get on it.

    1. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

      This !

    2. avatar Ragnar says:

      18 U.S. Code § 241.Conspiracy against rights

      If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or…

      and, there is this:

      18 U.S. Code § 2383.Rebellion or insurrection

      Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof (ed. U.S. Constitution), or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

      1. avatar Alan says:

        Re the above mentioned, when was the last time action thereunder was brought against government agents. If such action was actually brought, what was the outcome? Please advise, and thank you.

        1. avatar Ragnar says:

          ref. 241: Probably never has been used in the defense of the civil rights protected by the 2nd Amendment. There was a case citing 241 involving the state of Georgia
          https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/383/745/ and a case against LEOs in Mississippi. https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/383/787/

          ref: 2383: Oddly, this was one of the laws that many were throwing around to hang President Trump on for his “Russian Collusion” . As we have all learned, was completely made up by people attempting to “rebel” or “insurrect” against the office of the President.

          I couldn’t find, nor do I believe any case exists where these laws were used in protecting a person’s rights to keep and bear arms. That does not mean that precedence cannot be set in the near future.

  14. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    “Francis “Beatoff Boy” O’Dourke believes that most people would follow the law and turn their weapons in under his proposal for a mandatory buyback program and assault weapons ban.”

    Ole BeatOff Boy may want to educate himself on what and how it went down when our forefathers were faced with a like proposal from the crown.

    April 19th, 1775 is a day of the greatest significance to the birth of this great nation. If they didn’t teach you about this date in your “American History” class I will gladly share the facts with you for “those who don’t know history (or I would add… willfully dare to ignore it) are doomed to repeat it’s mistakes…”

    On that specific day 700 British Red coats (what a coincidence! The Communist’s/Socialist’s favorite color!) under the command of Lieutenant Colonel FRANCIS Smith (wow! talk about coincidences!) marched on the Massachusetts town of Concord under ‘secret orders’ to seize colonial guns, shot and powder that were being stored there.

    When they arrived in the vicinity of the Town of Lexington (Massachusetts) they were met and confronted by 500 colonial militia members. To this day no one really knows who fired the first shot but it is generally agreed that it was “the shot heard around the world” A militia of farmers, store keepers and other ‘commoners’ faced against one of the mightiest and greatest Empires ever…the British Empire…and the end result is well known… the birth of the Greatest Nation ever known to man.

    To be clear, the Red coats forced the colonial militia to retreat at Lexington, after causing them several casualties, moving on to Concord where they found that the ‘colonials’ had moved everything out. Unfortunately for the Red coats it also gave the ‘minute men’ an opportunity to re-group and reinforce with additional numbers. Historians agree that the British troop’s march back to Boston was ‘not a pretty sight’ and that in fact they had to be rescued by British Brigadier General Hugh Percy or they might not have made it back at all.

    What is largely and sometimes conveniently ignored by many is WHAT CAUSED THAT FIRST SHOT TO BE FIRED? Well, the answer is in American History. The British troops had been ordered to seize guns, shot and gun powder belonging to the ‘colonials’.

    The Second Amendment is not (and never was) about hunting. I dare you or anyone else to find any mention of “hunting” in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution or the Bill of Rights; it was written to keep us precisely from the threat of an all powerful government attempting to ignore the Constitution and the Bill of Rights… the threat of dictatorship . Without it the Constitution, and the rest of the Bill of Rights are not worth the paper they are written on.

    Note that this Battle occurred literally four weeks after Patrick Henry’s famous speech to the Virginia Convention, House of Burgesses, on March 23 (this is the final section of that speech):

    “It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, “Peace! Peace!”—but there is no peace. The war is actually begun! The next gale that sweeps from the north will bring to our ears the clash of resounding arms! Our brethren are already in the field! Why stand we here idle? What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!”

    BeatOff going to be at the head of the confiscation squad.

    Mολὼν λαβέ !

    1. avatar Dennis says:

      Bravo! Now if we could only get the screwels to actually teach this history, we might not have to worry about repeating it.

    2. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      And the preeminent “weapon of war” was the Pennsylvania rifled long-gun which was easily accurate out to 300 yards. And in the hands of colonials who knew how to shoot, they were deadly weapons of war. When gun-controllers try to claim that the 2nd Amendment only refers to “muskets” and not scary black ARs and Aks they are intentionally missing the point. Keeping and bearing arms, means modern arms, modern weapons of war.

    3. avatar BobS says:

      There weren’t 500 colonial militia mustered on the Lexington Common as 700 of the King’s light infantry, grenadiers, and Marines marched into town at dawn. The most reliable number is 77. Of those, eight fell.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        and at least some of them were “in their cups”…

      2. avatar Mark N. says:

        Well, they were a bit slow. Eventually roughly 400 militia men gathered and attacked the British covering guard. The march back to Boston was a genuine ordeal for the British, with Americans continually firing on them from behind roadside houses, barns, trees, and stone walls. This experience established guerrilla warfare as the colonists’ best defense strategy against the British. Total losses were British 273 (almost 40%), American 95.

  15. avatar rt66paul says:

    “O’Rourke believes that most people would follow the law and turn their weapons in under his proposal for a mandatory buyback program and assault weapons ban.”

    As Tweety Bird used to say, “Him not very smart, is he?”

  16. avatar Ragnarredbeard says:

    “Many gun owners are also unwilling to turn over the weapons, and if the government offered to buy them all back at face value, the price tag could easily run into the billions of dollars.”

    Stop doing the left’s work. The government never owned my guns and cannot buy them back.

    Call it what it is: CONFISCATION.

    1. avatar Ranger Rick says:

      👆This man knows what he’s talking about.

    2. avatar napresto says:

      Personally, the price tag on my cheapest, worst gun is just north of one billion dollars, a not-at-all-sarcastic special “buyback” rate. What’s that? Oh, no… no, the rest are not for sale. Definitely not. But sure, if Uncle Sam wants to throw me a billion for an aging duck gun that mis-feeds something fierce, I won’t say no. Imagine the tanks I could could buy with a billion dollars… or better yet, maybe I’d just get in on the “buying government” bandwagon and lobby myself some much-needed improvements to our political sphere.

      Maybe I’d go ahead and do both.

  17. avatar D says:

    Libtards say its impossible to deport 2 million illegals yet confisgation guns from 50 million owners is possible

    1. avatar Hush says:

      Consider: The illegals walk around among us and can’t seem to be found! Yet, they think they will find the 16 million+ ARs and AKs not so visible!
      Also, anything, depending on use, can be defined as a weapon off war; so, do not think, for a minute, that they will stop with confiscating the ARs and AKs.

  18. avatar NicoleGuzman22101 says:

    The government will not need to go door to door. The majority of AR’s are registered. A buy back will begin the process. What will follow is the felony phase. The felony phase would employ notices to your employers, your Social Security benefits, along with your bank and credit cards being frozen.

    At that phase, you will be required to produce the firearm or a foreclosure procedure to recoup those losses, along with holding you responsible for that “lost” weapon financially if it appears in harming someone.

    There are radars which can penetrate underground storage areas in barrels or vaults which will discover your lost weapons, and then as a felon, you will be guilty of lying to the government.

    The above though is the diversion, as the real target will be making it legal to hold sellers and buyers financially responsible for any harm that firearm produces, or the costs of authorities trying to track down your stolen firearm. A 20,000 dollar police bill for investigating a stolen firearms is a sticker shock people will realize.

    1. avatar jwm says:

      Thankfully the dems have completely destroyed their chances to beat Trump in 2020. By the time they become relevant again, if ever, the federal courts will be loaded in our favor.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Except that all of mine are legal even in Kommifornia and not a single one is registered, along with most of my AR-owning friends. We either built them ourselves from 80% lowers or configured them to avoid AW classification. Out of all the (off the top of my head) 25 or so ARs my friends and I own here, I can think of only one that’s registered. And that’s only because the guy is a semi-Fudd who didn’t want to take the time and effort to reconfigure his, so it became an AW.

      How many ARs do you think are registered in all the states that don’t require it? I think you’re way off base with your assumptions.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        just check the 4473’s….anything is doable…if they really want to….

      2. avatar Mark N. says:

        If you bought a serialized lower, then you are registered with the State. If you own an 80% lower and have not applied for and engraved a serial number on that 80% build, then you are breaking the law. (Yes indeed, they made the law retroactive to include rifles built prior to the new law.) Not that they’ll find them, unless you break some other law that gets your property searched….

        1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          No, Mark. The law required that any existing 80% lowers be marked per ATF etching standards by July 1, 2018. The serial number is of your own choosing and is not subject to registry. Any lowers finished *AFTER* that date are required to be marked with an identification number provided by the CADOJ.

          The whole point of the law was to do away with unmarked (blank) lowers within the state.

    3. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      “…The majority of AR’s are registered….”

      No requirement to register in SC, unless you are talking about the 4473 stored ..somewhere. As for private sales…no official record.

      good luck with the 4473s too.

      1. avatar Grumpster says:

        Nationwide I would bet the amount registered is in very low single digits. Even states that have registration it is believed that less than 10 percent are actually registered.

      2. avatar frank speak says:

        word is their records are in a mess….

        1. avatar Mark N. says:

          That depends on which records you are talking about. The federal records are only 4473s that have been turned in by closing FFLs. The manufacturers have records of every serialized lower made, and to whom it was shipped. FFLs are required to keep tidy records. And private sales interrupt the ownership record unless each seller keeps a record of the transferee, which some do as a form of defense if that firearm is used for ill.
          State registration systems are another issue. For example, California does not cross-reference Dealer Record of Sales documents, so the same firearm, if sold a few times, may show up as having multiple owners; the old record never goes away, even if you file a change in ownership form. Retroactive registration records in California, New York, and any other state that required a new registration for any AR or AK are notoriously incomplete.

    4. avatar Mad Max says:

      There are plenty of firearms for which the government has no record of who owns them.

      There are places where the private sale of long guns are exempt from background checks.

      There are 80% firearms that there is no record of.

      Even if gun owners turned in the known guns, there would still likely be over 200 million guns in circulation.

    5. avatar Mad Max says:

      Also, the government does not have the manpower to execute all of those searches and seizures.

      Law enforcement and the military only make up 0.81% of population and gun owners make up at least 30% of the population.

      Using an average population density of the United States results in about 1 million square miles that would need searching.

      1. avatar Grumpster says:

        Here in Illinois the police can’t keep up with just the rampant gang crime. They have no time to do anything more let alone anyone that is not an immediate threat or under high suspicion with much evidence of committing a crime of actual violence against someone. The prisons are so full that they are leaving violent felons under home arrest. Hell Jussie Smollet was let off the hook due to his mere 14 felonies. It is pure fantasy to think millions of previously law abiding gun owners will be rounded up and put into prison for not turning in their guns via an unconstitutional law. It is also pure fantasy by leftists liberals to think that the government will be freezing bank accounts, charge cards, and SS benefits as the Supreme Court has already shot down such abuses of penalties versus the crime.

        IF gun confiscation actually did become reality, the progressives would be pretty upset to find out that their homes, apartments, and businesses would also be ransacked by government thugs looking for guns because NO ONE knows where all the guns are so everyone’s property would be targeted. How long before public opinion suddenly ships against gun confiscations then, my guess in matter of weeks.

        1. avatar UpInArms says:

          ” pure fantasy to think millions of previously law abiding gun owners will be rounded up and put into prison ”

          Not so fast. Once the Dems take power, they will open the gates and let all the illegals out of the “concentration camps” (AOC’s words, not mine). As the illegals go out the back door, all the gun owners will be ushered in through the front door. Plenty of space.

      2. avatar Kevin says:

        Exactly right. Hell it takes the feds 3 months at best to process an NFA application in the current climate.

      3. avatar frank speak says:

        would require a massive expanse of ATF…and modernization of their records….expensive

        1. avatar Mad Max says:

          And generations to get all of the long guns and old guns into the registry.

    6. avatar napresto says:

      @Nicole… the real world is not television. You have no idea what you are talking about. Our government isn’t nearly as competent as you describe it, and most guns (long guns especially) are not registered at all. The scenario you posit would be opposed with force because it leaves honest, decent people absolutely no choice. It’s madness, but for that reason, it’s also, thankfully, completely unrealistic.

    7. avatar Geoff "I'm getting too old for this shit" PR says:

      “The majority of AR’s are registered.”

      Wrong.

      In New York state, less than 10 percent of the estimated number were registered.

      90 percent gave them the middle finger. Only a few states currently require registration, leaving well over 90 percent of the total number un-registered…

    8. avatar Huntmaster says:

      By time they get around to deploying those ground penetrating radar units, the matter will have been settled by body armor penetrating AR’s.

    9. avatar Huntmaster says:

      Hate to disrupt your fantasy but radar doesn’t quite work like that.

    10. avatar GluteusMaximus says:

      That vast vast majority are in no way registered.

  19. avatar George Washington says:

    Yeah… These people just throw this shi! at the wall to see what sticks… They know dam well gun confiscation will never actually happen…
    This is red meat for their inner city constituents who are racist against rural white people…
    These animals in the inner city think they are gaining ground in their efforts to completely remake this country…. Problem is, they are of low I.Q. and these politicians know exactly what to say to these low I.Q. voters…
    These monkeys have fallen for this crap for a hundred years and they won’t learn until they are forcibly shown what will happen to them if their ideas actually start to take off….
    Lol…. It’s so funny because their end goal will back fire in their faces and then maybe we can actually MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!!!!..

  20. avatar NORDNEG says:

    Just come & try to take em,,, we’r Waiting. I say put the politicians who want to do this up front,,,
    Can’t believe that after your supposed to take a oath to protect the constitution of the U S, that you can try to subvert the latter, should be immediate dismissal of said creepy politician…

  21. avatar Mark says:

    I’ve never hear of AR15 Gun Owners of America. I wonder if they “do anything” in terms of the legislature. I’m inclined to join because the AR15 is my favorite firearm hands down. Also, I really hope there are at least 50 million AR15s in circulation. Anything less will simply not do. I’d prefer over 100 million. I’ve done my part that’s for sure.

  22. avatar strych9 says:

    Politicians nearly always leave out the “how” part of it. If I’m being charitable I’d say they’re ‘idea people’ rather than ‘logistics people’.

    At least Biggie had an answer to that question. “Kick in door wavin’ the .44” might not be the best solution but at least it is A solution to the ‘how’ question.

  23. avatar RCC says:

    They are still finding Mini14 and M1 carbines in Australia 23 years after the bans. I can’t imagine them getting them all
    back in USA.

    The Australian government paid about 150% to 300% of cost for most guns to try get people to comply. Some people were promptly making parts and selling them to bureaucrats who had no idea what real guns were. I imagine it be a popular home industry.

    1. avatar Manse Jolly says:

      True…I also want to know how the fed gov intends to value my firearm if this ever comes to pass.

      Fair market value is a no-go since I put my time, effort, and know-how into said firearms….and only I can put a value on me. Especially when it comes to ‘buying back’ something that was never owned by the fed.

      1. avatar Kevin says:

        My dear friend. I believe that you built one during the time your hourly wages were around $150. If I recall, about $7500 total for the rife because you took your time ensuring proper quality control. I’m saddened to hear, however, that you lost said rifle in a recent boating accident.

  24. avatar Rusty - Die Ruthie Die - Chains says:

    New Zealand has a population of less than 5 million and despite having a much lower rate of ownership and special licensing required for those who have these firearms appears to be on target to actually confiscate some 10 to 12 percent of those in circulation. Here in the US we have more than three times their population numbers in AR pattern rifles alone and the lefties think we are all just gonna run them right on down to the collection point in return for a $100 Walmart gift card. I think they have been spending way too much time sampling that recreational marijuana they also promote.

    1. avatar Herb Allen says:

      The U.S. has three times the population of NZ!!?

      Uh…5 million vs 325 million (est)? That works out to our having 65 times the population of Kiwi Land.

      And the little island tyranny can’t even begin to round up all the black guns. And don’t even think about trying to disarm the Maoris, Anorexia Girl. They are a scary bunch.

      1. avatar Herb Allen says:

        Oops…my bad. Should have read more closely that you meant AR’s, not people. But I still think there are at least thirty or more times as many AR’s in the U.S. than NZ.

        Beto will have a lot of door banging to do.

  25. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    I Haz A Question, there aren’t enough “boys in blue”. I think they subconsciously want to see if the 2nd Amendment would actually work. It also seems they have forgotten or have never read the 2nd paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, re abuses.

  26. avatar tdiinva says:

    Let’s imagine that 100% of law abiding citizens comply. That will still leave large numbers of AR/AK in the hands of criminals and crazies. The crazies are still going to do what crazies do and the number of spree shooting incidents would remain unchanged.

  27. avatar Ing says:

    Something you all seem to be conveniently ignoring… The article says:

    “THERE IS A PRECEDENT for the ideas proposed by O’Rourke and Booker, as difficult as they would be to implement.

    “THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION RECENTLY BANNED bump stocks — devices that allow semiautomatic long guns to mimic fully automatic fire — and ordered owners to turn them in to be destroyed.”

    If Trump’s bump-stock administrative shenanigans don’t get hammered down by the courts — and it’s looking like they won’t — then the next Democratic president WILL be coming after your AR-15, and probably all semiauto rifles, using the exact same method. Mark my words.

    1. avatar Ing says:

      And now it’s starting to look like maybe they will get hammered down…and in the meantime, out here where all the everyday Americans live, thousands of regular people have had their property taken away, and more than one business has been ruined in the process.

      Anybody that gives Trump credit for some kind of 4-d chess maneuvering had damn well better give him credit for all the damage it’s done, too.

      And if you think this is going to rein in the administrative state, I’ve got a bridge to sell you. The next Democrat POS to occupy the White House will STILL do this and more to us…and Trump might even do some more of it, too.

    2. avatar Dude says:

      Are you implying that the executive branch can just ban ARs by a rule change, as they did with bump stocks? The last ban required new legislation.

      1. avatar frank speak says:

        the bump-stock ban would have too…trump short-circuited the process….

  28. avatar Rob (Not Robert) says:

    Beto is basically AOC with a Texas accent and a Y chromosome. Squeeze his head and more $hit comes out. He is irrelevant in the current presidential race. Stop validating him by listening to and discussing his weak BS.

    1. avatar Ranger Rick says:

      The Beta Boy does not have a “Texas accent”.

      1. avatar UpInArms says:

        I’m not so sure he has a Y chromosome, either.

        1. avatar Kevin says:

          Pretty sure that AOC has one though. Probably why shes so conflicted on which bathroom to use.

  29. avatar Andrew Lias says:

    *EVERY* Red Flag bill should have this in it. They’ll have to explain how a demographic that commits a huge portion of homicides won’t be included or get held accountable by their insane woke base.

  30. avatar WI Patriot says:

    “Anti-Gun Politicians Never Want to Talk About How They’ll Actually Confiscate All Those Guns”

    Because they have no clue as how to implement “confiscation”, PLUS, they know it(confiscation) would never pass muster…just more hot air escaping…

    1. avatar frank speak says:

      not yet….

  31. avatar Swarf says:

    Nice quote from the spokesperson of the Liberal Gun Club.

  32. avatar Chris Morton says:

    If you want to know how it’d work out in practice, rent the movies “Defiance” and “Michael Collins”.

    Francis may be whiter than sour cream, but he sure looks “black & tan” to me…

  33. avatar adverse6 says:

    Assuming there will be a “Constitution” once the National Socialist Party takes control. There won’t be. They will not have to confiscate firearms door to door. Make manufacturing or owning a firearm a felony. Arrest on sight anyone carrying a firearm (that order can be modified as needed). A matter of attrition. Time consuming? Yes, but effective in the long run. The National Socialist Party is as much a criminal organization as a political one. Organized Crime under legal fronts will be happy to assist.

    1. avatar Dennis says:

      Socialism, confiscation, erosion of the bill of rights, etc. It’s all done with the long game, small steps, small enough that lots of people don’t even see it happening (or don’t care). Just ask creepy uncle Bernie! He’s been playin the long game for the last fifty years, an he’s actually being considered for the oval office of this country!?

    2. avatar UpInArms says:

      There will always be a Constitution. I have a copy right here on my desk. Whether or not it will mean anything to the Power Elite, well, that’s another issue. But as long as I’ve got my copy, I’ve got a cause to fight for.

  34. avatar Ross says:

    I believe the true cost of a buyback a.k.a. confiscation in the United States will be measured in the bloodletting that will follow.

  35. Using local/city /state police forces to criminalize, RED FLAG/Extreme Risk Protection Orders, declare political Maverick Gun Owners as Enemies of The State…I’m after that last TTAG article on The Chinese Governments affiliation with the USA gun control movements that the PRC is giving out free pointers (re: Tiananmen Square handbook on Urban Pacification…)
    Like said, IT’S all about the “Authoritarianism.”

    Fight the Future!

  36. avatar DerryM says:

    There are 100 million+ civilian gun owners in the U.S. {with several times that number of firearms in their possession} and an estimated 850,000 Police Officers. What are the chances the Gub’ment would run out of Police before the Police seized all privately held firearms?

    Additionally, there are about 2.5 million troops in the U.S. military plus about 336,000 National Guard Ground Troops {don’t forget a significant number of U.S. military are overseas and in “non-combatant” roles}. All that (including Police) totals about 3.7 million in Government Service versus 100 million +. Factor out for both sides those who cannot or will not participate in the fight over mandatory confiscation, by your best guess, and the Government(s) still comes up on the very short end of the stick or worse.

  37. avatar Ike Konoclast says:

    The people pushing for gun confiscation, starting with AR 15 and AK rifles, do not care whether it is a buy up or outright confiscation. The issue is the “ban”. Nor do they care whether they seize all or just a fraction of the existing banned guns. Much like machine guns, the objective is to make criminals out of those who do not comply.

    Why has there never been another amnesty to freely register NFA weapons like we had in 1968? The law specifically provided for periodic amnesties, yet ATF has fought against them. Hint: Anyone who has an unregistered NFA weapon is a “criminal”. Likewise, anyone who owns an AR/AK style weapon after a ban becomes a criminal.

    It doesn’t matter to the people wanting to ban guns whether they get the banned guns now, or get them from your estate. As with machine guns, it’s a gradual process.

    How will the authorities find them? Many (such as completed 80% receivers) can’t be found – for now. But none of us live forever…..

    Robert Farago published an anonymous whitepaper back in 2010 which describes how guns like these can be found: https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-etrace-revealed-backdoor-national-firearms-registration-scheme/

    If a Universal Background Check system is imposed, it will be one more step toward full registration. Do you ever wonder why only gun dealers are allowed to run background checks? Because the gun, by serial, with buyer and seller, must be entered into the dealer books where they can be copied by ATF.

    If they really only want a background check, individuals would be allowed to run them – but no, they want a permanent record of the transfer where it can be recorded in a registration database.

  38. avatar MLee says:

    Beta Mouth need to go to a few doors himself and demand citizens give up a right and *TRY* and take their property. The skinny mouthy coward wouldn’t do it.

  39. avatar Whittemore says:

    “For years we’ve allowed these to be sold.”
    –David Chipman, BATFE, ret.

    We’ve ALLOWED these to be sold. There, all neatly tied up with a bow, is the core of the problem: the government lifers who see their role as gatekeepers of what we, their subjects, may and may not do.

    The fundamental issue isn’t guns, the fundamental issue is the relationship between the government and the governed. Over the past two centuries, we have ceded far too much control of our lives.

    The ongoing fight to preserve the fundamental human right of adequate means of self-defense is but one part of a much larger problem.

    1. avatar Dennis says:

      Now everyone’s starting to “get it”! Baby steps is what the whole agenda is all about. Take the phones outta your heads people, and pay attention!

  40. avatar Guns & Roses says:

    “For years we’ve allowed these to be sold.” said David Chipman”
    Who crowned you King Shit of turd island? We payed your salary numb nuts. It obvious why they never say how they’ll execute a gun confiscation, because it would sound a little like Nazi Germany with agents of the state going door to door. Except we are better armed than the Jews in Germany were and we aren’t giving up squat we legally bought with our hard earned money. Where do they find these idiot politicians? I mean politicians have always been a bit shaky, but I’ve never seen so many bonehead politicians like I’ve seen over the last few years. It like they have a factory producing these morons with the intent to ruin our country more than it already has been. Can you imagine if Booker and Beto were President and Vice President? This country would literally be going down the toilet. These guys were probably picked on in school and now have a vendetta to settle with the cool guys who have AR’s and AK’s. Seriously though, where do they find these guys?

  41. avatar jim lucas says:

    What they want to do is cut off your bank account and credit cards, then kidnap your children from their school for “safety”.

  42. avatar Alan says:

    As to how the seizure of arms, the lawfully owned and acquired types anyhow would work, consider the following. Those wonderful folks down there at the BATFE have acquired and maintain purchase records of legally acquired arms, and never mind that the law says that such a national registry shall neither be established or maintained. What do you think happens with the sales records, those 4473’s of dealers that have quit the business? They are turned in to the ATF, aka the BATFE, where they are maintained.

    Additionally, so it is claimed anyhow, BATFE agents, in the course of dealer inspections, make photo and other copies of dealer records, notwithstanding provisions in federal law forbidding such activity. Yes Virginia, law enforcement types have been known to violate the hell out of the law, just like criminals do. That is one of the more obvious ways that arms seizure would work. By the way, should you be curious as to how come such obvious violations of federal law are carried on by federal agents, absent do much as a peep from the Congress, check with your Congress person, or U.S. Senator. Good luck getting a substantative answer. Enough for now, though there is always more later, as the target is a mobile one. Oh by the way, there are always those Rat Fink Neighbors that should not be overlooked.

  43. avatar A. C. says:

    The other question that gun confiscation candidates must be asked, over and over is:
    “To the extent that citizens can own and use a gun to protect themselves, government doesn’t need to be RIGHT THERE to stand between a someone and a violent criminal. When government takes our means of defense, government has a DUTY to protect its citizens. Right now no law enforcement agency has the resources to do that. How will government carry out it’s duty to protect law abiding citizens from lawless criminals after they’ve turned in their guns? Be specific.” When you ask that, demand an answer.

  44. avatar Richard Steven Hack says:

    “Machine guns like M-16s were outlawed by Congress in 1986, but they can still be owned under a tightly regulated process. Small numbers remain in circulation, largely because of the restrictions.”

    The story I remember reading somewhere is how when machine guns were banned, there was a one-year grace period where previously unregistered full-auto weapons could be registered without consequences. At the beginning of that one year, there were about 100,000 registered full-auto weapons.

    During that year, *another* 100,000 full-auto weapons were registered.

    Which probably means that *another* 100,000 full-auto weapons are out there that will *never* be registered.

    We can expect the same – or more likely higher – rate of non-compliance for AR/AK weapons. With 16 million AR/AK weapons, you can expect at least 10-30 percent will not be recovered, leaving 1.6 to nearly 5 million of them remaining in private hands.

    It’s pointless to even consider it. Which is precisely why the goal is not to reduce crime, but to disarm the population – even though that is effectively impossible in this country. So the real goal is political advantage. Guys like Beto don’t really care about firearms crime – just using that issue to virtue signal so they get elected and get that pork.

    And that’s not taking into account the resulting black market which will spring into existence.

    1. avatar Alan says:

      The 1986 legislation, actually an amendment to a legislative proposal impacted newly manufactured “machine guns”. Of course, it’s adoption, without a recorded vote, by the way, caused a sharp increase in the price of existing, transferable machine guns.

  45. avatar Chris says:

    I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. They don’t care about confiscations and they certainly don’t have a plan. These are just empty promises so people will vote for them.

    1. avatar Chris says:

      Just remember Occam’s razor: In the face of complex scenarios and problems without resolution, it’s always the simplest explanation. People like this Rourke character don’t give a damn about anything other than being elected and they don’t care what they have to say. As unrealistic as it sounds, all he wants is to be the loudest one in the crowd and win the most support. If people pay attention to him long enough, he’d probably tell you he wears ladies underwear if he thinks it’ll win over the lgbt community. You know how many promises Obama made and followed through on? I can name most of them on one hand. I don’t even watch the news or pay attention to this crap because at the end of the day it’s all a bunch of bullshit.

      1. avatar George Washington says:

        Funny that you can even recount ONE thing that moron hussein obama promised and then followed up on….
        Unless you’re referring to a promise to ruin this country….. Then yeah, he followed up on that one i guess…..jeez

    2. avatar Ike Konoclast says:

      If the Democrats gain control of the House, Senate and White House, that campaign rhetoric won’t seem so empty…..

      1. avatar Dennis says:

        Even if that did happen (god forbid) they’ve never made a promise they didn’t break the day after they got elected.

        1. avatar Ike Konoclast says:

          Really? Don’t forget the 1934 Gun Control Act, the 1968 Gun Control Act , The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993, Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act, and a few others I’ve probably missed.

  46. avatar Will Drider says:

    Gun grabbing politicians and groups also fail to consider the Criminal Marketplace. If tons of illegal drugs and counterfeit products continue to get into the U.S., because of DEMAND: there is great potential for gun to follow suit. Look a Mexico extremes in gun control with ONE Gun Shop in the entire Country. Guns obviously get smuggled in. Same thing is happening under the strict and ever increasing anti gun Laws of the European Union. How’s our War on Drugs going? Hell of a lot of drug crime going on, it a major part of gang warfare to control the turf and drug trade. Freebee needles for junkies and a lot of Pot legalization taking place.

    Take gun smuggling a step further: why smuggle a semiautomatic when a full auto takes up the same space and will sell for more on the criminal black market? Anyone think China, Russia or other anti U.S.A counrties wouldn’t mind supplying the guns and ammo?
    They get a paycheck and we get termoil. There is a major lesson in Prohibition and the cause for its repeal. Banners and confiscators should read up on it.

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