From the Second Amendment Foundation . . .
New revelations in the aftermath of the mass shooting which took 18 lives in Maine provide growing evidence authorities failed when they might have prevented the deadly attack, the Second Amendment Foundation is noting, while criticizing calls for a slate of new, restrictive gun control laws.
The Boston Globe reported that the killer was involuntarily committed to a mental hospital in July, and an article in Reason noted the man’s family told police of their concerns about his mental state five months before the Lewiston rampage. Instead of focusing on these failures, anti-gunners from President Joe Biden on down the scale have dragged out their well-worn and repeatedly rejected gun control agenda as a response, SAF said.
“Biden and his fellow gun prohibitionists literally jumped at the opportunity to exploit another tragedy to push gun control schemes which would not have prevented the mayhem,” said SAF founder and Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb. “They want background checks…which the killer passed. They call for waiting periods…but the gun recovered by police was legally purchased months ago, weeks after his family contacted authorities and prior to his hospital confinement.
“Contrary to what Michael Bloomberg’s Everytown group is saying about so-called ‘weak gun laws’ in Maine,” he added, “this case, like so many in the past, is revealing a failure by local authorities to act on reliable information and utilize existing laws. As a result, some Maine Democrats are now hinting at a new spate of gun restrictions which will accomplish nothing except to penalize honest citizens and erode their Second Amendment rights.”
“Individuals who are involuntarily committed are already prohibited under federal law from possessing firearms and ammunition,” noted SAF Executive Director Adam Kraut. “The constant calls for additional laws after such a tragedy, particularly when the government abdicated its responsibility, are misguided and serve no purpose other than to exponentially increase the heft of the criminal code books for no material gain. The agenda of the gun prohibitionists demonstrates they only wish to pass laws for self-serving purposes.”
The more and more I read the facts about this shooting the more and more I’m convinced this was to some degree a false-flag type operation.
The state has red (or yellow … if it’s such a major difference) flag laws that were unconstitutionally passed after previous shootings mirroring the same circumstances (guvmint failed time and time again). Such “laws” were either ignored by one or more jurisdiction or simply not used, yet these liberal tyrannical communists/globalists still want more.
Biden and Kumala has been in office all this time (illegally after stealing an election to usher in the UN 2030 agenda) and has never issued a functional order for the DOD to force it’s branches of the military to report folks involuntarily committed to mental detention, even after the USAF was discovered to be negligent in failing to report an individual that resulted in a church shooting. Cant be anything but intentional to NOT do what you’re campaigning to do, at least on this scale. With the intent to use all this to disarm the USA their plans cant be more obvious.
I’m not at all sure that Maine’s yellow flag law is unconstitutional. The problem with all red flag laws is, none of them allow for due process. Maine went to the trouble of ensuring that they have due process.
If a guy is given the opportunity to answer for his supposed “crime”, in a court of law, where he can face his accusers, then it seems fairly certain that the law passes constitutional muster. That, after all, is what due process is all about.
If you are that guy, and you can’t cast reasonable doubt that you’re freaking nuts, then maybe you really are nuts. We know for certain that Robert Card was a nut case. He should have been brought before a judge, and the judge should have deprived Robert of his weapons.
All of his weapons? His car, his baseball bat, his hammers, his knives, he was combat trained so his hands and feet? Just exactly what good does taking the guns away and leaving a dangerous person on the street do?
It’s harder to kill 18 people with bare hands.
An unknown person in NOLA killed 24 w/a qt of lighter fluid…
@louis
So you pick 1 item to refute my argument? Remember the left’s motto: “If it saves just 1 life!”
Bottom line, you have to deal with the person, not the tool. There are many tools.
“leaving a dangerous person on the street do?“
So you’re advocating for a red flag law that incarcerates the subject, rather than just taking his firearms?
I think they’re trying to walk a difficult tight rope, balancing freedom and liberty against the safety of society. And yes, we accept certain limitations on constitutional freedoms every day as a matter of course. Freedom of speech has limitations, freedom from unreasonable search and seizure has limitations, as does the second amendment.
Such laws are absolutely unconstitutional. They aren’t even needed. All a judge has to do is order the subject to stay away from firearms while undergoing mental treatment while ordering LEO(s) to confiscate them while the mental health treatment is ongoing. Such an order can even be issued by a J.O.P. You don’t have to have a specific statute beyond what already exists in the NFA and other such laws already on the books to give a judge that initial authority. Kind of hard to have access to firearms when you’re being treated in a mental institution (but the problem is we got rid of most of those). After release, if the subject is found with firearms they simply go to jail, as do agg. felons if they’re caught with them. It’s very simple.
All this drama, campaign corruption, etc., is never necessary.
!00% correct. BTW, it’s called the “Baker Act”, BUT, in this (and Parkland and Uvalde and Orlando, and Las Vegas and Dayton and Virginia Beach, et al) case, ALL failed.
“Such laws are absolutely unconstitutional.” NOPE, show me how you got to that falsehood.
FYI, domestic violence injunctions have been around for decades- same thing. Are they too unconstitutional?
“ex parte” is NOT unconstitutional. Due process is 48 hours to see a judge and be informed of your crimes.
Never put to conspiracy what can be explained through laziness and stupidity.
Exactly what the left does,, AND they never let a good crisis go to waste, for gun control.
“I’m convinced this was to some degree a false-flag type operation“
“Biden and Kumala has been in office all this time (illegally after stealing an election“
Reality is gently calling, will you answer?
“On November 5, 2017, a mass shooting occurred at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs, Texas“
That shooting happened on Donald Trump’s watch, it was his responsibility to order the armed services to comply, he had three years to do so but was asleep at the switch.
His administration was too busy banning bump stocks I guess…
As planned…nuff said.
When they tell you having a gun won’t protect you, show them THIS video, and remind them of Charlton Hestons’ quote..
This is the harrowing story of Miki, a father from southern Israel 🇮🇱, who singlehandedly defeated over 10 Hamas terrorists who hunted him and his family in their home during the October 7th massacre.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2023/11/mustsee_video_a_survival_tale_from_israel_shows_why_guns_matter.html
Thanks Pugetopia for the link to the interview!
Now imagine an entire community of Mikis.
I believe the main area of the 10/07 attack was focused on a known liberal region. Coincidence? Hamas had been using Palestinians with work permits to map the area and make notes about the inhabitants. How many Jewish people are given permits to work in Gaza?
Exactly. They wanted he and his family for hostages.
For some reason, he was a high value target for Hamas, and it appears they knew EXACTLY where he was, but DIDN’T know about the Glock…
…if the commitment was involuntary, who failed to report it to the FBI? More than three days is supposed to be disqualifying, and he was reportedly in for two weeks.
It is not the amount of time a person is detained under the “yellow” law (Virginia for one has an allowed detention of ten days as I recall), but whether the involuntary detention resulted in an involuntary ADMISSION to a mental health facility. The detention is “for the purpose of assessment”. But to be admitted to a mental health facility requires a judicial hearing and the judge’s conclusion that the person is a danger to himself or others. What often happens if the facility believes the person should be admitted, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, is that they give the individual the opportunity to consent to the admission, i.e., a voluntary admission. Voluntary admissions are not disqualifying.
Your Meme featuring Bart Simpson was right on.
Now just wait for the HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH terrorists to go postal on the United States.
Never happen.
Countries with evil intentions know they cannot take The United States of America by force.
Besides whether we as Americans know it or not we have already been defeated. Try and find a role of Electrical tape that is Made in America, a television, a spoon.
I like Smithfield bacon, how about you? Hah hah hah.
Tuna, Bumblebee is the last and it gets its tuna from the Asian market.
Aspirin, St. Joseph’s, only one left made in USA.
We have met the enemy and they lowered the prices.
Some country is getting a moon tan and America waves a flag.
Possum, possum , possum, obviously fallacies are foreign to you. Look up “non sequitur”- your conclusion is based on false facts.
America’s win or loss has NOTHING to do with where products are made, NOR the economy. THAT is how capitalism works.
Besides, the fact is, if anything, we’re doing it to ourselves. Things “made in America” cost ALOT more, BECAUSE, Americans demand higher and higher wages and benefits. FYI, there’s still alot of things “made in America” , if you’re willing to pay the much higher price.
IMO, AFA consumables- from aspirine to TP, I don’t care where they’re made. AFA electronics, maybe Japan makes it better and cheaper. I drive a Japanese car, that gets 50 MPG, because the USA doesn’t make one.
Still, NONE of that has anything to do with our readiness to defend ourselves, OR go on the offense.
Possums got his tail firmly wrapped around the core of the problem….
Nevermind wiping your ass with offshore made TP, you’d better hope you don’t need antibiotics whose precursor chemicals are sourced through China…
Stuck in Pugetopia said:”Possums got his tail firmly wrapped around the core of the problem…” Umm NOPE, he’s got it wrapped around the ignorant tree, and if you buy into it, you’re right there next to him.
‘you’d better hope you don’t need antibiotics whose precursor chemicals are sourced through China…’
You and he don’t do any research, huh? We don’t buy any drugs or paint or lead or mercury from them. FYI, I get all my drugs from the V.A., so…FYI over 60% of the script drugs we use in the USA, are made in the USA. The rest come from Europe and India.
That whooshing sound is this discussion going right over your head…
“I get all my drugs from the V.A.”
And I get all my milk from the grocery store.
“script drugs we use in the USA, are made in the USA. The rest come from Europe and India.”
I said ‘precursor chemicals..’
Pay attention to detail.
STUCK IN PUGETORIA- NOPE, that whooshing sound is YOU speeding to la la land. i saw the word “precursor”, you’re STILL wrong. YOU should pay attention to reality
BTW, stop deflecting, YOU SAID THAT POSSUM WAS RIGHT- EXPLAIN, AFTER you look up”non sequitur”
I know EXACTLY what non sequitur means. I don’t have to ‘look it up.’
I’m deflecting?
I note that you didn’t DISPUTE the point about ‘precursor chemicals.’
The Chinese have a large market share of the drug related chemicals that we, the Indians, Europeans have all become dependent on.
(BTW, I am VERY familiar with the ‘Indian’ source for generics. My wife needs a particular drug for her pulmonary hypertension. We got dumped off on another pharmacy when Rite Aid closed. About an hour after FIRST time she took a dose of the ‘new’ meds after we got a refill, she said basically, I don’t think this stuff is working, I’m not getting the relief I usually do. That led us down the research path of generics, NDC ‘codes’ and what actually makes up or is allowed in generics.
The ‘new’ stuff was sourced out of India, and research uncovered that there could be a fairly substantial variance in both the ‘passive’ ingredients AND the ACTIVE ingredient. The NDC code for the other stuff showed it was manufactured by a major drug company in the US, but marketed as a generic as well. Once we figured THAT out, we would specify to the pharmacists that we needed a particular NDC code for that drug, and WE HAVEN’T HAD ANY MORE PROBLEMS.)
We, (the ‘western world’) are dependent on semiconductor products including processor ‘chips’ manufactured off shore. Ask Ford why they are having trouble getting processors to keep their vehicle plants going.
We, (the ‘western world,’) have become dependent on CHEAP CHINESE auto parts to repair said vehicles.
We are dependent on bringing in substandard aluminum from places like Russia and re-smelting it to make it usable. We no longer have the capacity to provide our own supply. Think about that for a minute. Where is aluminum used again? What would happen if we ‘all of a sudden’ couldn’t get a reliable supply?
What about FUEL and the crude oil to polymerize into PLASTICS?
Oh, I’m sorry, did I use a word too big and scary for you to understand?
I could literally go on for HOURS.
I’ll just sum it up by saying “TRUMP WAS RIGHT.”
If you’re too ignorant to see that the rope that makes up the noose around our collective necks is being held by PEOPLE THAT WOULD LIKE TO SEE OUR COUNTRY -FAIL-, then I truly feel sorry for you.
Logically, if you purchase everything from somewhere else the domestic production of those products will cease.
As has happened with the Electrical tape this conversation started with.
” I get all my drugs from the VA.”
Non sequitur.
“We, (the ‘western world’) are dependent on semiconductor products including processor ‘chips’ manufactured off shore. Ask Ford why they are having trouble getting processors to keep their vehicle plants going.“
Rather than whining about Italian satellites stealing the election or arguing about who is crazy enough to qualify as a republican speaker of the house, the Biden administration has been working on that issue:
“The CHIPS and Science Act is a U.S. federal statute enacted by the 117th United States Congress and signed into law by President Joe Biden on August 9, 2022. The act provides roughly $280 billion in new funding to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors in the United States.[1] The act includes $39 billion in subsidies for chip manufacturing on US soil along with 25% investment tax credits for costs of manufacturing equipment, and $13 billion for semiconductor research and workforce training, with the primary aim of countering China.“
MINOR49er. “We” ? Western Socialist world ? No kidding we are dependent on semiconductors. No kididng that many if not most come from your allies in Red China. The tick Lefty is to not be dependent on your Red Chinese friends and to make our own. Just as the US should be ENERGY INDEPENDENT and not dependent on any other country for our oil. We have a plant being built here in Oneida County NY and theree are at least two other plants here in NYS that are either being considered (Albany and Buffalo) as well as other thorough out the country.
For your edification, we are not ready to surrender to your Leftist ideology and agenda. We consider it exceptionally important that we maintain the USA as a Constitutional republic, not a Leftist dictatorship.
SDI,
CHIPS…
So, in other words,
TRUMP >WAS< RIGHT!
PEGATOPIA:”I note that you didn’t DISPUTE the point about ‘precursor chemicals.” Umm there’s nothing to dispute- I DID say you’re wrong- wrong is wholly wrong.
“The Chinese have a large market share of the drug related chemicals that we, the Indians, Europeans have all become dependent on.” NO THEY DON’T- look it up- 6%
“We are dependent on bringing in substandard aluminum from places like Russia and re-smelting it to make it usable. We no longer have the capacity to provide our own supply. “WRONG again.Where is aluminum mined on Earth?
Aluminium | Geoscience Australia
“The world’s largest economic bauxite resources occur in Guinea, Australia, Brazil, Vietnam and Jamaica. In Australia, bauxite is mined from established open-cut operations at Weipa in Queensland, Gove in the Northern Territory and the Darling Range in Western Australia.” WE’re friends with all those folks.
Now, let’s get into who imports the most scrap aluminum: India Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 3,141,289.99 1,647,760,000 Kg
China Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 2,029,437.62 1,027,850,000 Kg
Korea, Rep. Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 1,789,802.29 1,040,330,000 Kg
Germany Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 1,703,488.57 1,042,290,000 Kg
United States Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 1,224,519.71
Malaysia Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 1,137,748.90 825,621,000 Kg
Italy Import 760200 Aluminium; waste and scrap 2021 World 1,068,348.77 659,197,000
Hmm, that kinda changes the landscape, huh? Everything is NOT so cut and dried.
“What about FUEL and the crude oil to polymerize into PLASTICS?” What about it? Here’s a look at five ingredients that could make bioplastics competitive with traditional plastics.
Olive pits. Countries that produce a lot of olive oil have a byproduct that can be used for plastic: olive pits. …
Sunflower hulls. …
Fish waste and algae. …
Plant sugars. …
Mushrooms.
And I could go on and on, too.
POSSUM: Logically, if you purchase everything from somewhere else the domestic production of those products will cease.” REALLY? Says who? Source?
“As has happened with the Electrical tape this conversation started with.”
UMM, NO IT DIDN’T- 3M, who invented electrical tape, is STILL in Wi., churning out electrical tape.
”I get all my drugs from the VA.”
Non sequitur.” OK, so you still don’t know what that is.THAT is NOT “non sequitur”. NOT a conclusion, based on false “cause and effect” connection. I mentioned that to say that I KNOW that all my drugs are made in the USA, as are 60% of all drugs.
CCHGN
So, you’ve run all the NDC #s through the FDA system and you KNOW your meds are made here, or are you just blowing smoke like your ‘show me one incident where an armed citizen has stopped a mass shooting’ garbage? BTW, nice shooting yourself in the foot by POSTING an example of EXACTLY THAT…
CCHGN,
Just so you’ll hopefully quit pissing on trees, and bleeding all over the place..
I thank you for your service as a US Marine. Yes, really.
My dad was wounded and taken out of action in Germany, shortly before his unit liberated Dachau.
He was out scouting around and got shot by a German that was part of a group waiting to ambush the rest of his unit.
His getting shot alerted every one else to the ambush. He got several awards, including, obviously, a Purple Heart, and was spared the horror of seeing the camp.
So, I do APPRECIATE the sacrifice and service of our military members.
That being said…
China and pharmaceutical supply chain..
https://www.cfr.org/blog/us-dependence-pharmaceutical-products-china
“Cohn’s words highlight a security concern associated with pharmaceuticals from China. As Rosemary Gibson noted in her testimony, centralization of the global supply chain of medicines in a single country makes it vulnerable to interruption, “whether by mistake or design.” If we are dependent on China for thousands of ingredients and raw materials to make our medicine, China could use this dependence as a weapon against us. While the Department of Defense only purchases a small quantity of finished pharmaceuticals from China, about 80 percent of the active pharmaceutical ingredients (APIs) used to make drugs in the United States are said to come from China and other countries like India.
For example, the chemical starting material used to make doxycycline, the recommended treatment for anthrax exposure, comes from China. When an influential Chinese economist earlier this year suggested that Beijing curb its exports of raw materials for vitamins and antibiotics as a countermeasure in the trade war with
the United States, the worries surrounding our API dependence to China seemed to be vindicated.
Concern about a disruption in the supply chain could explain why the tariffs on Chinese products proposed by the United States Trade Representative in May 2019, worth approximately
$300 billion, excludes “pharmaceuticals, certain pharmaceutical inputs, and select medical goods.”
Aluminum…
“The world’s largest economic bauxite resources occur in Guinea, Australia, Brazil, Vietnam and Jamaica.
In Australia, bauxite is mined from established open-cut operations at Weipa in Queensland, Gove in the Northern Territory and the Darling Range in Western Australia.
”WE’re friends with all those folks.”
Thank you for making my point for me..
BTW, Alcoa, (ever heard of them?) has taken three of the largest aluminum processing plants in the northwest off line in the last 10 – 15 years. Ferndale and Wenatchee in Washington State, and Troutdale in Oregon. They say it’s because of power prices, which is a joke, because Alcoa had (has) power contracts in place with the major hydro electric producers in the state. They were paying literally only several cents per kWH used.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_industry_in_the_United_States
The US imported nearly all the bauxite (the only commercial aluminum ore) used in producing primary aluminum. For years, the US has produced less than 1% of the bauxite used to make aluminum.
The US also imported 33 percent of the aluminum metal that was used in 2014. Of the imported aluminum, 63% came from Canada.[1][15]
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R47294
Through 2000, the United States ranked as the world’s largest producer of primary aluminum. In 2021, the United States
accounted for less than 2% of global primary aluminum production and ranked as the ninth-largest primary aluminum
producing country. Primary aluminum smelting is highly energy-intensive, with electricity estimated to account for up to
40% of production costs. Consequently, a major reason for the decline in U.S. primary aluminum production is that the
United States is a relatively high-cost producer. The world’s leading producers of primary aluminum are generally countries
with comparatively low energy costs, including Canada, Russia, and the United Arab Emirates. By contrast, the United States
is a major producer of secondary aluminum. In 2021, more than 75% of domestic supply came from secondary smelters.
Secondary aluminum production is often more economically tenable than primary production, as it is approximately 95% less
energy-intensive than primary smelting.
““What about FUEL and the crude oil to polymerize into PLASTICS?” What about it?
Here’s a look at five ingredients that could make bioplastics
competitive with traditional plastics.
Olive pits. Countries that produce a lot of olive oil have a byproduct
that can be used for plastic: olive pits. …
Sunflower hulls. …
Fish waste and algae. …
Plant sugars. …
Mushrooms.”
Yes, I am aware of most of what you listed.
Now, ANSWER THIS QUESTION:
Which of those processes are IN PRODUCTION -NOW- HERE that could step into the gap if our crude oil imports were cut off?
Armed Citizens stopping mass shootings…
“You mentioned ONE yourself in another post.” YEAH, ONE in 50 mass shootings-yeah right, good record.
I think Dr. John Lott would like a word or two with you…
https://crimeresearch.org/2022/10/massive-errors-in-fbis-active-shooting-reports-regarding-cases-where-civilians-stop-attacks-instead-of-4-4-the-correct-number-is-at-least-34-4-in-2021-it-is-at-least-49-1-excluding-gun-free-zon/
Massive errors in FBI’s Active Shooting Reports regarding cases where civilians stop attacks: Instead of 4.4%, the correct number is at least 34.4%. In 2021, it is at least 49.1%. Excluding gun-free zones, it averaged over 50%.
As was said by another poster on here, learn to think critically.
And I’ll add this:
One incident is an accident.
Two incidents are possibly a coincidence.
Three are enemy activity…
Very good point(s).
The government did not “abdicate its responsibilities.” It owes no duty to anyone to defend or protect them. It did not have an obligation/duty/responsibility to locate and disarm this individual, nor did the police have an obligation to take him to a mental health facility for evaluation and treatment. Whether or not to take someone into custody requires an exercise of judgment and is a discretionary determination to act or not act, for which officers are absolutely immunized.
As are the prosecutors who refuse to charge, the judges who refuse to find guilty or give slap on the wrist punishment and let’s not leave out the politicians who write either, illegal legislation or ambiguous laws that do nothing to solve the problem, but gives their voters a ‘Feelz Good’. Because they (did something).
“It did not have an obligation/duty/responsibility to locate and disarm this individual, nor did the police have an obligation to take him to a mental health facility for evaluation and treatment” WRONG. Look up RED FLAG LAWS. LOOK UP THE BAKER ACT.
He threatened to shoot up a base, his family went to the authorities with 1st hand knowledge of him being violent and deranged. The darn sure DID have a responsibility.
Legally, no.
Morally, yes, I would agree with you.
Warren v. District of Columbia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_v._District_of_Columbia
https://www.alternet.org/2022/06/supreme-court-cops-protect-individuals
So is this what messy freedom looks like???
Since there is a refusal in our society now, to lock up the mentally ill. And force them to take medication and force them to take treatment.
“messy freedom”? Has freedom ever been NOT messy?
FYI, the refusal to “lockup and force” folks is the very definition of “freedom”.
NOPE, we suggest, just deny them access to guns.
Gentlemen ! ! ! Arm Yourselves.
And have plenty of extra standard capacity mags in your pouch!
I have been harping for years: If you look at the last 25 mass shootings, they all have one thing in common- they’re deranged, many since childhood, and several authorities knew it, yet FAILED to report or flag them.
PASS A LAW THAT MAKES THOSE AUTHORITIES LIABLE AND MASS SHOOTINGS WILL STOP IMMEDIATELY.
Pass a law outlawing Gun Free Zones, and mass shootings will quickly become one or two shots fired before the shooter was perforated from multiple angles…
The problem with that is you have people buying guns, but don’ get any training, so most will leave them at home OR worse try and shoot the BG and do more damage than the BG
Please give examples of this actually happening.
It has been legal in Texas for over two years for anyone who is allowed to own a gun carry it in all but a few prohibited locations. I am not aware of any such instances as you suggest.
Sound of the old zombie ‘Oh my god, there will be blood in the streets if..’
Yeah. Just like Florida when they started issuing carry permits.
Just like EVERY STATE SINCE FLORIDA where Constitutional Carry was implemented..
‘Waaaah! Blood in the streets!!!’
Did it happen?
No.
Bill Rudersdorf HEY I can’t answer you if you don’t leave the means to reply.
ANYWAY, the empirical data speaks for itself- Show me where ANY “armed citizen” stopped a mass shooter.
Pugetopia: Yet another ankle biter, hit and run. Too scared to leave a “reply” function. BTW drop the name calling.
So how did you make the ridiculous stretch from, “most folks will leave their guns at home” to “blood on the streets”? BTW, FYI, Florida has “permitless carry” now. Also, FYI, no such thing as Constitutional carry- show me where, IN the Constitution, it says ANYTHING about HOW to carry.
YOU said that if they get rid of the tiny “No guns ” signs, mass shootings will magically stop. So show me where ANY “armed citizen” stopped a mass shooter.
You mentioned ONE yourself in another post.
Why don’t you just crawl back under your Soros/Bloomburg provided warm rock..
‘Waaaah! Blood in the streets!!!’
Yep, that’s exactly what happened in this state:
“State lawmakers made concealed firearms legal without a permit. Then, more West Virginians died.
Lawmakers who supported the 2016 law said it would help keep people safe. But there were significant increases in gun homicides after it was enacted, according to a new study from WVU researchers.
by Allen Siegler
October 12th, 2023
Among U.S. states, West Virginia has one of the higher rates of gun deaths. While the majority are suicides, the WVU researchers highlighted alarming increases in other types of firearm deaths as well.
When comparing West Virginia’s firearm death rate between the 17 years prior to the law and five years after, the study found gun homicides in the state increased by nearly 48%. Gun fatalities among females and African Americans in the state also rose significantly.
The researchers also compared West Virginia’s firearm death rate before and after the law to the U.S. as a whole. As West Virginia’s rate rose, the country’s deaths remained steady.“
Very interesting research reported here and did you notice this line:
“Among U.S. states, West Virginia has one of the higher rates of gun deaths.“
West Virginia is a solid red state, 2 term Republican governor, both state houses have Republican super majorities.
Red state with “one of the higher rates of gun deaths”, I thought it was the liberals states who caused the problem…
CCHGN, I have to differ with you. Constitutional Carry has been taken to mean your pistol permit is the @nd Amendment! You may not like the phrase, but it is far more valid than “gun violence” or “assault rilfe”.
CCHGN
Just in case you haven’t figured it out by now, this site only allows a limited number of ‘nested’ replies.
Nobody is deliberately ‘not leaving you’ ‘a method to reply.’
minor49ER, THE problem with your “gun deaths” stats is that you lump suicide in with these numbers. Aside from that, I don’t think that anyone here except maybe dacian the DUNDERHEAD and Albert L J Hall believe anything you post.
Shitdiggingidiot
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/07/12/fact-check-gun-law-change-had-little-impact-wv-crime-rates/7891524002/
Both datasets show violent crime, murder and homicide rates in West Virginia were nearly the same in 2014, two years before permitless carry was enacted, and in 2019, the most recent year for which data is available.
https://bearingarms.com/camedwards/2021/09/20/data-shows-crime-dropped-after-wv-adopted-constitutional-carry-n50108
Walter: “CCHGN, it is a very simple answer to your ludicrous question. The reason why no one stopped these shooters is either a) no one in the vacisnty was armed, or b) as in the case of Uvlade, no one had the balls to act.”
Ludicrous question? Foolish, unreasonable, ridiculous? SO in 50 mass shootings NO one was armed. Hmmmm, what are the odds of that? 50 different, completely random events, in different states. Hmm, so where were the guns? at HOME>? The ONLY thing ludicrous are the ridiculous posts.
BTW, NOPE, 2 events of “no balls”- Parkland, FL., Stoneman HS, had an officer on the scene and he bailed.
VNVET69 said:” Almost all high profile mass shootings occur in “gun free zones.” Usually, there’s no one armed to shoot back….Please learn to think critically.”
Why don’t YOU practice what you preach. SO, let’s take a mall, a dozen stores, hundreds of people, YET, NO ONE IS ARMED, because of a tiny piece of paper. So you know this how? Do you go and interview every single person in the mall? NO, YOU DON’T, SO, your lack of critical thinking assumes that none is armed.
FYI, I carry everywhere I go, I totally disregard ANY “NO GUN” sign I see, or don’t see. Concealed means concealed- NOBODY KNOWS. NOW, you can let go of that false idea that no one carries into a “gun free zone”.
Very true. 100% correct.
Except that they are out of touch with reality. BTW, it’d be nice to know who you are responding to exactly.
If what he says is true, why wasn’t the shooter at the Pulse NC stopped? Virginia Beach, Dayton?, et al. Cops were at Stoneman HS and Uvalde, yet the shooters STILL weren’t stopped. Why wasn’t Card stopped? If anyone says because of a little bitty, obscure sign that said “No guns”, is really out of touch. FYI, there was such a sign at the mall in Indiana, but that didn’t stop Eli Dicken, from stopping that shooter.
The reality is, most people who by a gun, leave them at home or in their vehicle. PLUS, most who buy a gun can’t stomach shooting another person. SO NO, that’s NOT correct nor true.
CCHGN, it is a very simple answer to your ludicrous question. The reason why no one stopped these shooters is either a) no one in the vacisnty was armed, or b) as in the case of Uvlade, no one had the balls to act.
“You mentioned ONE yourself in another post.” YEAH, ONE in 50 mass shootings-yeah right, good record.
YOU said: “Pass a law outlawing Gun Free Zones, and mass shootings will quickly become one or two shots fired before the shooter was perforated from multiple angles.” Too bad that hasn’t happened, as of,,,,,RIGHT NOW. OH, removing that tiny piece of paper that says “NO GUNS” will change everything, huh? UMMM,NOPE.
“Why don’t you just crawl back under your Soros/Bloomburg provided warm rock..”: LOL, I’m a registered Constitutionalist. MY Marine Corps blood flows RED. AND, why don’t YOU crawl out from under your conspiracy theory boulder and smell the coffee
Almost all high profile mass shootings occur in “gun free zones.” Usually, there’s no one armed to shoot back. It is very rare that a shooter goes to a hardened target or where someone might be armed. Please learn to think critically.
That said, there have been other places where a good guy or guys with a gun(s) have stopped a would be mass shooter, I recall a church for one where the parishioners had formed a security team and took down a shotgun wielding wacko. I’d have to research for more but I’m just too lazy. So I’ll say, bottom line is, gun free zones (aka free kill zones) need to end. The right to defend oneself and others is irrevocable.
VNVET69 said: “Of course the US can’t control the wages in other countries, every ninny knows that but we can control them here.”
REALLY? Yeah right, so when is THAT going to happen? Wages keep going up. The UAW is on strike right now for higher wages. Hundreds of pharmacists walked off the job for higher wages, Unions renew their contracts every 5 years for higher wages. AND, the cost of living keeps going up, up ,up.
CCHGN, Let me clue you into something. “Gun Free Zones” are target rich environments. If we do away with “Gun Free Zones”, at least the victims will have half a chance. For your edification more than a few mass shootings have been stopped by a good guy with a gun.
CCHGN
I posted this as part of a reply to you elsewhere in this thread, but I think it was too much stuff, and may have gotten ‘moderated away.’
So, if my other reply DOES magically appear, apologies for multiple posts containing this info…
========
I think Dr. John Lott would like a word or two with you…
https://crimeresearch.org/2022/10/massive-errors-in-fbis-active-shooting-reports-regarding-cases-where-civilians-stop-attacks-instead-of-4-4-the-correct-number-is-at-least-34-4-in-2021-it-is-at-least-49-1-excluding-gun-free-zon/
Massive errors in FBI’s Active Shooting Reports regarding cases where civilians stop attacks: Instead of 4.4%, the correct number is at least 34.4%. In 2021, it is at least 49.1%. Excluding gun-free zones, it averaged over 50%.
So, he was involuntarily committed but purchased the firearm prior to his hospital confinement, which gets all the questions of if he was/was not prohibited and when this status was changed out of the way.
Which leaves you the question of why there wasn’t any kind of enforcement.
I generally default to incompetence on such matters, and that’s generally correct. IRL, the cops aren’t much better than the DMV.
It is, however, interesting to note that Rahm Immanuel’s rule applies here and that in many instances this is why there are basically no institutional pushes for greater competence.
The lack of competence in useful enforcement acts as an argument for more laws to make up for enforcement. Step one in growing a bureaucracy or building a police state.
The funny part is that if you want the latter all you have to do is let the self-serving interests of the former run for enough iterations. Anyone looking at the Brits right now would see that, at best, this form of malign neglect is at work in destroying the British notions of civil rights and that years of failing to enforce anything remotely related to actual border security plays into this.
Which is also happening here. Even if 99% of the people who’ve crossed our border in the past few years are upstanding (they’re not because they didn’t follow the rules in the first place, but whatever, ignore that for the sake of argument) you’ve still allowed 60,000-80,000 people with bad intentions into the country.
So you’ve got 5.94-7.92 million replacements for manufacturing and trades jobs to assist in wiping the “Right” off the map going forward and you’ve also got 60,000-80,000 more excuses to build a police state to go after anyone you like.
Illegal immigrants will work for less, it’s the only way to combat the wage discrepancy between us and the countries we buy 98% of our goods from.
MAGA will begin when it has 35cent labor day wages.
.
If it was up to me any
company that moved its buisness from America to a foreign country to lower its cost of production would never sale another product in America.
EPA didnt help matters much either, in fact some foreign countries people blame their pollution problems on American businesses operating in their country. Never mind that country doesn’t have the EPA regulations America does.
Exploitation doesn’t make many friends.
Illegal immigrants will work for less, it’s the only way to combat the wage discrepancy between us and the countries we buy 98% of our goods from.
MAGA will begin when it has 35cent labor day wages.
That, Mr. Marsupial, is one of the more interesting things I’ve seen someone write of late.
“illegal immigrants will work for less, it’s the only way to combat the wage discrepancy between us and the countries we buy 98% of our goods from.”
Sorry but you have NO clue
My, what an stunningly brilliant argument you’ve articulated here.
It’s radiant reasoning and luminous logic are only augmented by the fact that it is presented in a truly magnanimous manner, and that grammar and punctuation bear the mark a truly educated man.
Pleasantries aside, your presentation of 1st order thinking masquerading as intelligence and wisdom can fuck right off and you can go ahead follow it. My patience for this level of outright tomfuckery was exceeded some time ago.
To be frank, loath as I am to say this about anyone; Miner is significantly more intelligent than you will ever be.
OK, so you’ve critiqued everyone else’s posts, yet have NOT produced a single solution or original thought of your own. Care to give it a try?
“Miner is significantly more intelligent than you will ever be“
Thank you, that was very kind of you.
MINOR49er Who would be stupid enough to make such as statement that “Miner is significantly more intelligent than you will ever be“?
I would, Mr. Beverly.
It’s rare, but some people do manage to demonstrate a level of intelligence lower than a stump.
OK, so you’ve critiqued everyone else’s posts, yet have NOT produced a single solution or original thought of your own. Care to give it a try?
Your first statement is demonstrably untrue to anyone who reads the first thread on this article.
And no, I would not care to expend energy explaining basic things to people who demonstrate the sum total capacity to make statements like “Sorry but you have NO clue” and then act like that’s some sort of argument rather than an iteration of the same thing you’re now accusing others of.
This is especially true of circumstances when I have already completed the request elsewhere in response to someone else’s explanation of how you have no idea what you’re talking about.
To CCHGN
So clue me.
Sure, for one, it’s illegal to hire and pay IA,
2nd, the whole claim is senseless- there is NO way IA (or anyone else) working for less will combat ANY wage discrepancies. That’s NOT how that works, BUT this is a non issue. The difference between wages in various countries have nothing to do with USA wages, and we don’t control that
@CCHGN: “The difference between wages in various countries have nothing to do with USA wages, and we don’t control that”
I think there’s a problem with you’re thought pattern. Of course the US can’t control the wages in other countries, every ninny knows that but we can control them here. The problem is, and the one the IAs might resolve when they get their work permits – and they will get them – is that the US cannot compete in manufacturing in the global market because the wages American workers demand are too high. This drives the cost of items manufactured in the US up beyond what people are willing to pay when they can purchase equivalent items made in other countries for less. And, yes, that is how things work.
*looks up from snorting a line of cocaine*
Ah, yes, because no one does illegal things. *wipes nose and leaves baggie in the White House*
To the point at hand:
“Labor arbitrage” is the term for what VNVet69 has explained.
It’s a manner of improving business efficiency via HR as opposed to other methods.
If the people coming here are so wonderful then why are their countries s_holes? If their countries aren’t s_holes then why are they coming here?
I’m guessing in about 30 years the USA will be just another sht hole to escape from.
I’m hard pressed to give it 30 months esp. if the demonicRats have any success in the 2024 elections.
The 30 year time frame depends on several things.
The question is if people will step up and retake the castles the Lefties have captured, starting with the one that controls the main supply route, namely School Boards.
Or, put another way and at the risk of sounding like a total asshole (“trigger warning” as was popular to say a few years back): Will Boomercons put their money where their mouth is or are they the narcissists the psyche community believes that generation to be?
Time will tell. But if the psyche people have the Boomers pegged, shit’s gonna get real bloody, real fast, and those 73 million Boomers will have a much lower population along a very short timeline since they’re the cattle currently being led to slaughter by TPTB.
[Personally, I think they psyche folks are wrong. I think it’s an artifact of the internet and where the rubber meets the road the internet posturing will fall by the wayside. Hence all that shit I post about propaganda, brain function, statistics and divide & conquer via the media.
But then, I’m not clairvoyant and have never claimed to be. I just see some patterns that I’m drawn to look into and I can do some basic arithmetic.]
“If the people coming here are so wonderful then why are their countries s_holes?“
Thank ‘banana wars’.
We’ve been ‘intervening’ in Central and South America since 1846.
“In the slightly less than a hundred years from 1898 to 1994, the U.S. government has intervened successfully to change governments in Latin America a total of at least 41 times. That amounts to once every 28 months for an entire century (see table).
Direct intervention occurred in 17 of the 41 cases. These incidents involved the use of U.S. military forces, intelligence agents or local citizens employed by U.S. government agencies. In another 24 cases, the U.S. government played an indirect role.”
https://revista.drclas.harvard.edu/united-states-interventions/
So what is your point?
AS an 8 year US Marine, it makes perfect sense to me to control our closest physical land neighbor.
Apply this logic to Florida and Texas, then get back to me after checking an electoral college map.
It is, however, possible for people to learn a lesson. Some people seem to require a bit more of a kick in the teeth than others.
The question at hand is, “Have they learned?”.
To be entirely honest, I’d be more than happy to swap any Central or South American 1:1 for our Leftists, even in a country like Honduras.
Hey, don’t put Florida and Texas in the same cart.
I’m a native Floridian and MY Governor is expelling “woke” from our schools.
Texas gov. is leaning more left every day.
Whoever said “Love means never having to say you’re sorry” got seriously mixed up between “love” and “government”.
Up until the mid 1960’s, most dangerously deranged people were quietly lobotomized and sent back to their family. They were still deranged, but unable to act on their delusions and the danger to the general public was mostly resolved. (Gee, ol’ Cletus came home from the hospital meek as a baby lamb…what a change !!!) Psychiatrists challenged lobotomies as a treatment and replaced them with meds, which work fine sometimes, until you stop taking them.
Sometimes the meds make the problem worse: “May cause suicidal thoughts or actions.” Many of those committing suicide or domestic murder suicide are taking these meds. Many also purchased a gun after starting the meds.
It all boils down to one fact. You are responsible for your own safety. Even then be prepared to be run through the system.
I learned one thing, when they say your going into Gin Pop dont get all happy n sht, theres no Gin or Pop.
Just a bunch of guys, some just like the guy who tried to rape your wife before you shuted him.
“Even then be prepared to be run through the system.”OH, you mean like Elisjsha Dicken ( armed citizen who stopped the shooter in Indiana) did?
I’ve been saying this just about from the start. The police dropped the ball, big time.
Why does anyone assume that the authorities made a mistake by letting this shooter free to do his deeds? Causing chaos to make the population ask for more government control is the logical objective.
cough, cough, CONSPIRACY THEORY, cough, cough.
So, at the cost of 18 innocent lives, from an established psycho? NOPE I don’t think so.
“The police dropped the ball, big time.” AND, the psych community AND the state DOJ, AND the DA
It seems to me that the authorities screwed up here but want to blame everything but themselves.
Rahm “Never let a crisis go to waste” Emanuel..
So show me where ANY “armed citizen” stopped a mass shooter.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/indiana-shopping-mall-shooting-police
Yeah, that’s the one I keep needling CCHGN about, SINCE HE POSTED IT HIMSELF..
So basically what you are suggesting is that if this guy, mentally disturbed or not, and regardless of any LAW ENFORCEMENT short of INCARCERATION for life and has the MONEY in his pocket that he could not have obtained a WEAPON of choice anywhere in the USA in 24 hours or 48 at most -no questions asked? SERIOUSLY?
If that is so then you lot are delusional to the extreme.
There is NO DEFENCE against a determined and reasonably intelligent mass shooter NONE AT ALL- not even in those place like the UK that have Draconioan Gun Controls All that can be done is to make the AVAILABILITY of FIREARMS especially those types used in most mass shootings, less available by those types altogether.
Albert L J Hall, As usual, you have no clue what you are talking about. First, there is no accepted (by the medical profession) defintion of the words “mentally distrurbed”. Second, we have this law in the US called HIPPA; it says that a healthcare professional cannot reveal anything about your medical condition without your expressed permission. Third, ONLY after a person has been adjudicated in a court or competent jurisdiction as a “threat to yourself or others”, can the information be entered in the NICS system which would prohibit you from purchasing a firearm. Fourth, most states prohibit purchase of a firearm by a person who does not live in that state. I know that the above has been mentioned to you on REPEATED occasions. But you persist in your anti-gun lies and propaganda.
The “defense against a determined and reasonably intelligent mass shooter”? Is there any such thing?
I strongly suggest you stay in Great Britain where you and your Leftist anti-gun control freaks can enjoy your “gun control” addiction.
As a further suggestion, I think it might be a great idea if you, dacian the DUNDERHEAD and MINOR49er all move in together as you are all actually one and the same person?
Extraordinary post, if you don’t mind continue sharing astonishing article this way! It fulfills me perusing your post. 註冊公司