ACLU: We Need to Restrict the Second Amendment to Preserve the First

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Right to Carry Timeline
Courtesy Wikipedia


The America Civil Liberties Union, which has never been able to count to ten and remember to include number two, is apparently unaware that more than 40 states have either shall-issue or some form of constitutional (permitless) concealed carry laws. And somehow the Americans who live in those states have full access to and use of their First Amendment rights.

New York’s restriction on public carry serves the state’s profound constitutional commitment to free expression — one that exceeds the United States Constitution and has made the state a cultural center for the nation and the world.

“Like most other rights, the Second Amendment is not absolute, and there are important First Amendment interests at stake when it comes to the carrying of guns in public,” said ACLU Legal Director David Cole. “The widespread and unregulated presence of guns in public spaces can chill our rights to assemble, protest, and speak out, and states are justified in regulating public carry to help promote trust that all will be free to exercise their right to free expression without worrying about getting shot.” 

ACLU press release announcing their amicus brief filed in New York State Rifle & Pistol Association v. Bruen

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  1. Fascism marches in America. The fascist left has gone so far to the left that now they’re to the right of the klan and the proud boys.

    Snuck up on the right from behind and now they’re too damn stupid to realize they are the right. Their movement is bought and paid for by corporate billionaires. It would be funny if it wasn’t so tragic.

        • Totally unrelated to guns, but my favorite Moe Sizlak quote is this:

          I’ve done a lot of things I’m not proud of. And what I am proud of? It’s disgusting.

          Classic character

      • I don’t fear being shot by a Conservative, I fear being shot, knifed, or beaten by. Democrat. Anti-Asian violence comes at the hands of black people (both from black men and black women), not imaginary “white supremacists.” Most prisoners are Democrats, if they were Republicans, the Democrats wouldn’t advocate allowing them to vote and hold office.

    • Again the high school drop out Jethro WM makes a fool of himself. It is always the Far Right Nazi’s like the Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer and the Oath Keepers and the KKK that regularly intimidate people at rallies by carrying assault rifles.

      This has never been the policy of the Left so once again Jethro WM makes a complete fool of himself with his maniac rants while failing to understand who the real fascists are in the U.S.

      Did the Left storm the Capitol and try and set up a Trump Nazi Dictatorship with Jethro WM cheering them on. The answer is no it was Jethro’s boys the Far Right Nazi’s that did.

      See a shrink Jethro your howling from the roof tops is alarming your sane neighbors.

      • Wow. Called crazy by lil d? 🤔

        IIRC, lil d is the one considered/called sh!thouse rat level crazy by nearly everyone who reads the slop he posts here on TTAG.

        I would consider a crazy call-out by lil d as an affirmation to ones sanity.

        Well done JWM, lil d has acknowledged your sanity.

        Hey lil d, up your meds. 🤪

        • Consider it a badge of honor to be added to the list in Dacian’s “little black book” (a bank of filing cabinets).

        • James, he either needs to up his legal meds or decrease his illegal “meds.” Based on what he says, it could easily be one or the other.

      • There is no such thing as “far right Nazis”. Nazis a creatures of the left. If you doubt that they were socialists just read Mein Kampf. The FDR era Dems knew the Nazis were their people. Would love to see you explain how Nazis have anything in common with a faction that believes in small government. The only thing Nazis are to the right of is commies, so I guess that tells us pretty clearly who you are.

        • quote————–There is no such thing as “far right Nazis”.——————–quote

          Purity you flunked history class and are using projection. The facts are the Nazi’s were as far right as you could get. They are just like you, they hated immigrants, refugees, were xenophobic and hated any race other than their own.

          And of course Hitler and the Nazi’s hated Communists and that is why they attacked Russia.

          Hitler inherited National Socialism from the days of Bismarck it was not a creation of the Nazi’s who hated it.

          Hitler privatized public utilities just like the Nazi U.S. Republicans try to do.

          Hitler hated workers Unions and tried to reduce their power just like the U.S. Nazi Republicans have done.

          Hitler was militaristic and spent vast quantities of money on the military just as the U.S. Republican Nazi’s do amounting to .54 cents of every U.S. Tax dollar

          Hitler gave tax breaks to large corporations just like the U.S. Republican Nazi’s do.

        • Apparently little d has forgotten that all through the 19th century and most of the 20th century, the Democratic Party was chock full of racists, that when they could no longer own slaves, they invented the tenant farmer contract that kept blacks (and low class whites) in poverty, and that gun laws were written to assure that the blacks could not fight the KKK. He forgets the marches and the killings during the 1960s where blacks finally found a voice and fought to overturn voting laws that had prevented them from participating in government. What the Democrats did to blacks was no different than what Hitler did to the Jews and other racial minorities including the Roma, among others. Does he not know that FDR was a racist who tried to prevent Jewish refugees from coming to America, and refused entry to a ship-full of Jewish refugees guaranteeing their deaths upon their return to Europe?

        • Dacian, you’re entitled to hate Republicans AND Nazis both, but they aren’t the same thing. Your historically illiterate attempt to paint them with the same brush is just blind, propagandistic ignorance.

        • And during the 1980s the Soviet Union was spending more than 50% of its GDP on defense spending. One reason why they went broke.

          The USA during the second world war had a peak of about 25% of GDP, and this was supplying most of the allied combatants

        • Southern Cross your so full of bullshit it stinks. The stats show that the U.S. spends more on its military than all the major Nations combined.

        • These were HISTORICAL numbers and presented as percentage of Gross Domestic Product (ie: the entire economy).

          Yes, the USA does spend a lot. With a large economy the percentage of GDP is the reference. Japan had their defense spending capped at 1 or 2 % of their GDP for decades. But the size of their economy still made this a significant amount. This limit was relaxed some time in the not too distant past.

          Submarines and Carriers are not cheap. Nor are modern fighter jets. And these need maintenance and spares contributing the lifetime operating costs. Also consider the global spread of US forces and the associated logistics. This costs money to operate. And a small mention to vendors over charging as well.

          Numbers from China would be under reported and would have to be compared to relative purchase value. Other countries may not make truthful claims either as this could tip off their rivals.

          The GDP values came from a reference book on the Cold War and an article on the “Farewell Dossier” which covered the weaknesses of the Soviet economy.

          Marx was not an economist. Keynes was. Read less of the former and more of latter.

        • dacian the dim,

          An old and wise saying (that you are too brain-dead to understand or appreciate):

          “The most expensive thing in the world is the world’s SECOND best military.”

          I would ask you to cogitate upon that concept – but you are capable of neither cognition nor logic.

      • I have been amongst or in the area of various armed groups and I wasn’t concerned. Being used to the tools of the 2nd amendment reoves the fear.

      • “This has never been the policy of the Left…”

        NFAC lead by Grandmaster Jay

        I know using the googles is hard….but it’s easy to see what you only want isn’t it?

      • Look up the fates of “The Cambridge Five”. They embraced communism. Betrayed not only their country but the western world in general. Escaped to the USSR. They found a system as bad as the fascism they were fighting against and fell very short of its promises. The cause and county they fought for considered them an embarrassment and a potential security risk.

      • dacien, you conveniently leave out that it was the left that caused so much more damage in all of the riots that occurred in all the liberal cities. Add to that Chaz… or any of the other stupid names they called occupying public land and claiming it was separate from the United States. Also, you mention the kkk, but conveniently leave out that it was started by democrats. It’s funny that you tell other people they are full of crap when you stink to high heaven.

        • Furthermore, you seem to forget or are unaware that it was a very liberal and democrat president who interned the Japanese after the kick off to World War 2. That’s right, FDR interned the Japanese people, including Japanese Americans. So not only did a liberal president (and FDR was on par with Bernie Sanders btw) lock away a people different then him but he trampled many constitutional rights doing it as well. Very Nazi-like of him. So your premise that it is all “Nazi right conservatives” is asinine in the extreme and pretty libelous. How about this, Andrew Jackson built the democrat party… and the President that defied the Supreme Court when he pushed to have Native Americans pushed off their land. Theophilus Eugene “Bull” Connor, the man made famous for ordering police to let their dogs loose and spray water from water hydrants on African American protestors during the Civil Rights movement, a Democrat. History actually shows that democrats have had just as much a hand in atrocities in the US. And US conservatives are night and day different then Nazi conservatives in the extreme, but you are so full of the crap you claim others are full of, you are only seeing brown.

    • It proves to me how little history people do not know, or how it is intentionally “Forgotten”.

      on April 19, 1775, the American revolution started with the “The shot heard round the world”. The British were attempting to confiscate colonists’ guns, primarily to make it easier to further subjugate the colonists.

      The Second Amendment was born out of this conflict as a means to protect our rights. The ACLU has it completely wrong. With very little effort you can find innumerable examples of firearms protecting people’s rights in America. Funny thing….a lot of the time people were protecting themselves from Democrats bent on controlling them.

      I think I see a pattern………….

  2. Hilarious the fact these clowns can get a BAR card and insulting us all further is their belief they actually know how to interpret our laws. The 2nd. Amendment is one of the two amendment hat are clear-cut and absolute. And these poor bastards actually get press time. UNBELIEVABLE !!!

    • I’d take a BAR.
      I’ve always wanted one, I guess I should have bought one when I had a chance but it was converted to 7.62X51.
      That ain’t original.

        • Had been modified semiautomatic. Hindsight, at the time I thought it was over priced. $1,350 , you’ve gotta remember though back then AK’ was $200 , M1 Garands $350. $800 should have bought it.

      • While tracing the family tree I discovered an ancestor was a lawyer that left the NE, ended up hanging out his shingle in a wild west town.
        Told the family back east that he was playing piano in the local whorehouse, just so they would respect him.

  3. “Like most other rights, the Second Amendment is not absolute,”….. Nor should it be relative to one’s address in the USA.

  4. You’re far more likely to be jailed, beaten, fired and publicly shamed for exercising your right to free expression than be shot. Especially if your expressing the wrong point of view. A problem that the ACLU played no small part in creating.

    • Shire-man,

      I came to express the same sentiment.

      Our nation’s recent “cancel culture” is far more chilling to our First Amendment right to free expression than people who possess firearms at demonstrations.

      We would be wise to note and remember something of critical importance:
      The Far Left keeps insisting that our side “act like gentlemen” in furtherance of our societal/political goals while the Far Left elevates “dirty pool” to an entirely new level in furtherance of their societal/political goals.

    • Yeah Shire-man, something the ACLU fails to mention. It is not conservatives that are blocking free speech. Between all the social media sites (who all support liberals) that are blocking what they see as “misinformation”, but is ultimately conservative views they disagree with and Antifa that does everything it can to destroy free speech, the left are far more dangerous to free speech then conservatives with a gun. But liberals are the biggest projectors in the world. Just look at dacien to see that.

  5. We need to rid ourselves of the marxists like the American Communist Lawyers United to preserve all of our rights and freedoms.

  6. The ACLU has been involved in the anti-Constitution push for a long time. In the 60s it was required of 8th graders, in California, to study and pass a test on the Constitution. The ACLU backed a suit to end this practice and by the the mid-70s it was no longer required.

  7. From the article:

    …the Second Amendment is not absolute…”

    I guess the mindbrights at the ACLU don’t understand what “shall not be infringed” means.

      • And, just like the gun-grabbing Leftists on SCOTUS, the supposed “gun-rights supporting” “conservatives” can be dead-@$$ wrong, too. I like many of Scalia’s opinions – doesn’t mean I think he’s infallible. His Heller opinion is a POS. The story around DC is that he had to write a POS, watered-down opinion to preserve the 5-4 majority. I’m inclined to believe that. WHATEVER he wrote, his being “conservative” buys him no passes AFAIAC. Read the effin’ Constitution. If you’re still unclear, go back and read the Federalist Papers and the notes of the debates around the Constitution and (particularly) the Bill of Rights.

        • “Read the effin’ Constitution. If you’re still unclear, go back and read the Federalist Papers and the notes of the debates around the Constitution and (particularly) the Bill of Rights.”

          Fun fact; Saw a Mark Levin interview of professor Alan Dershewitz where Alan spoke about some Harvard law graduates not having taken a single course on the Federalist Papers. Went on further to state some graduates have never even read them.

        • James,

          Doesn’t surprise me. I first read the Federalist Papers in junior high school – I think I’ve read them ‘front to back’ at least a dozen times, and I refer to them on the daily.

          When I went to law school, “Constitutional Law” was a required class, but I was actually excited to take it. My prof was better-then-decent, but not outstanding, but . . . I was purely shocked at the level of Constitutional ignorance of my fellow students. A few of them had HEARD of the Federalist Papers, I would be money none of them had actually read them.

          There is a notable and important difference between ‘credentialed’ and ‘educated’. It would be nice of some of the so-called ‘elite’ could grasp the difference!

  8. Sitting on your pompous lawyer behind and nitpicking the 2A to fit your narrative is much different than nitpicking the 2A while your defenseless lawyer behind hides and listens to home invaders b*tch slap your stepford wife and hump your daughter. At that point all the comfy ACLU BS flies right out the window.

    For people in the real world defense of freedom, home and family is absolute by any and all means necessary. Case fn Closed.

    • And Regan was the first one to fall in line. He inflicted the insane homeless on Ca.

      Note: To all you that worship on the Regan altar, he aslo attacked gun owners’ rights in Ca.

        • R Reagan closed the mental hospitals. He also signed the Mudford Act that banned the open carry of loaded weapons, enacted after armed Black Panther members visited the Legislature in Sacramento.

        • Mark N.,

          Well, it IS true that Reagan did both of those things. In context:

          1. He closed mental hospitals because (a) he/State of CA had been successfully sued (in part by the ACLU) for so-called ‘involuntary commitments’, and were required to release many (but not all) patients, and (b) took that as a great opportunity to get that item off the CA budget; and

          2. Yep, he signed the Mumford Act. Didn’t veto it, and I saw no evidence that he campaigned against it. Which makes him different from MOST “conservatives” how, exactly????

          Republicans have done equal, if not greater, damage to 2A rights as have Dimocrats. Anyone who trusts ANY politician simply hasn’t been paying attention.

  9. The American Communist Lipservice Union, is an elitist Socialist group, that has never read the Constitutiin as a literal document, and has always treated the Bill of Rights as a Bill of Priveleges, issued bt Government. That is why they work so hard at removing God from the discussion, because if Rights come from God, then Government cannot take them!

  10. How does someone carrying chill anyone else’s speech if they’re carrying CONCEALED??? ACLU didn’t think this one through.

    • Simple, a downtrodden economically disadvantaged person announces a unique opportunity to donate funds to their personal charity, at which point the concealed carrier removes his gat from a waist storage container and demonstrates the need for silence with a loud BANG!

    • Yes, their argument doesn’t make much sense considering what this case actually entails. The supreme court is only considering “whether the State’s denial of petitioners’ applications for concealed-carry licenses for self-defense violated the Second Amendment.” So it is really whether NY can deny applications for concealed carry. Not open carry restrictions, or when and where you can carry concealed. Whether NY citizens are able to get a license to carry concealed (and this doesn’t mandate constitutional carry either) see shouldn’t have any chilling affect on the first. It seems this case likely won’t say whether NY can prohibit carrying weapons to a rally or in various places.

      The ACLU wants to portray this case like it’s about rifle toting proud boys who want to counter protest little school kids holding up “don’t pollute” signs, by pointing loaded machine guns at them. But this case is not about that.

      ACLU also seems to think that, of course theiir preferred righteous political justice activists would oppose all carry and wouldn’t want to be armed themselves. But why would those activists also want to be disarmed? Nothing says only republicans get to carry.

      • “Yes, their argument doesn’t make much sense considering what this case actually entails. ”

        Actually, their argument makes perfect sense. You see, not knowing if a person is carrying means one must curtail speech because it is impossible to ascertain that no one is possessed of a firearm. Not knowing, it is more prudent to say nothing, because that might cause a gun owner to “snap”, and start shooting everyone in sight.

        “An armed society is a polite society.” Polite is not what the anti-gunners, leftists and statists want to extend to “deplorables”.

        • And argument that, like many against looaer concealed carry laws, relies on the premise that these dangerous, trigger-happy would-be murderers are also responsible enough that they won’t carry if the law says they can’t.🙄

    • The case in which it filed its amicus is a CONCEALED CARRY case. Further, the other case was still on appeal but had become moot as none of the Plaintiffs were still under 21. Thus the law still stands. Justice moved too slowly.

      • Mark N.,

        Let me save you some effort. dacian the dim is bereft of intellect, education, logic, literacy, historical knowledge, rhetorical skills, common sense, or manners. He is SUPPOSEDLY ‘educated’ – or so he claims. He is incapable of framing a coherent argument, wouldn’t know a FACT if it bit him in the @$$, believes all the idiotic Leftist talking points his professors ALLEGEDLY brainwashed him with, and can’t actually cite any support for any of his “positions”. Trying to engage dacian the witless in discourse is like trying to play chess with a pigeon – he struts around the board, loudly; knocks over all the pieces; and then struts further and proclaims how he “won” the game.

        The only reason I interact with him at all is that he is SO much fun to slap around and mock. Don’t bother to try to educate him; he is not susceptible of ratiocination or learning. Mock him mercilessly, or ignore him.

        • I think I was winding the little d up really tight yesterday. And he was still irked off today.

          My aim is to hear his brain pop from my side of the world.

          Keep referencing his “little black book”. Make it a badge of honor to be added to the list.

        • Southern Cross,

          dacian the dim is simply too easy a pinata NOT to take a swing at – thin, limp shell and easy to crush. Unfortunately, like most cheap pinatas, he is empty of anything of value.

          Still, as pathetic as he is, a dark side of me enjoys slapping his smug, ignorant, arrogant face whenever he hangs it out there.

        • Lamp, don’t forget outlandish claims such as comparing US conservatives to Nazi’s. You know what’s funny, he still hasn’t even attempted to engage me in a previous post I did on this thread where I showed that he is full of crap.

        • Mike,

          If you are waiting for dacian the dim to engage in an actual, ya know, DISCUSSION???? The Second Coming will happen, first.

          dacian CLAIMS he is ‘educated’ (but never provides any details). He makes naked assertions (most of which are blatantly, provably false), without citation or support, and then runs like the scared little b**** that he is if you challenge him.

          We have some epic troll/morons here at TTAG (MinorIQ, are you around???), but dacian is a special kinda stupid.

  11. “ACLU: We Need to Restrict the Second Amendment to Preserve the First”

    It’s called an amendment to the constitution: go for it !!

    • Q; Want to know when lil d is lying?
      A; He’s posting to TTAG.

      Q; Want to know when he’s posting some of his most MASSIVE Lies?
      A; He defines his “contributed content” as proof! 🤣

      Up your meds d! 🤪

      • The Daily Beast Reporters are also guests on one of the most respected news media outlets on the planet, France24News. but then again what would a backwoods Jethro like yourself know about accredited news media outlets.

        • So a couple of pissed off teenagers reflect a national need to teach a class based on racism against white people? Hmm.

        • Hey lil d, care to comment about the ACLU getting caught changing RBGs statements, then attributing the modified statements to RBG?
          Seeing you just stated YOU know what the ACLU “meant” a few posts ago.
          You need to step away and take your meds. 🤪

        • Since journalists made it very clear they are no longer impartial observers. They slant and distort the presented facts and opinions to their own viewpoints.

        • You had to click into the second article to get any detail and even then no specifics were offered.

          Not so much as fake news but no news. I would imagine it was a classroom reverse exercise that went further than it was supposed to.

    • dacian the demented,

      You also probably think Howard Zinn is a legitimate historian, too, amirite???

      dacian, you are so transparently intellectually inept, you aren’t even a decent punchline. If God had gifted you with an actual brain, you would have taken it out an played with it. Fortunately, God was kind enough to spare you that indignity.

      Besides, He needs a few object lessons on the dangers of arrogant stupidity.

    • NYS does not typically issue for self defense, only for hunting and target shooting, still leaving citizens barred from carrying protection in urban areas. This lawsuit is NOT about a NYC law but a NYS law.

  12. lolwut?

    To sum up: “My right to form a mob and riot, loot and burn are threatened by private gun ownership.”

    What a fool.

    ACLU needs to check themselves before they wreck themselves.

  13. How ironic to pretend to defend free speech when liberals and the extreme left, as well as most mainstream media, and college students and faculty, have already pronounced it dead.

    • “How ironic to pretend to defend free speech when liberals and the extreme left, as well as most mainstream media, and college students and faculty, have already pronounced it dead.”

      Not quite correct. Legitimate speech is still protected and alive.

        • “As long as the Left is allowed to determine what is “legitimate speech”, of course.”

          Live by the Golden Rule: He/She/It/ who have the most gold rule. The Left has more billionaires than the normals, and can buy more votes.

        • “Didn’t tertiary learning start the “cancel culture”?”

          One could argue that “cancel culture” began in the mid-60s college campi.

    • “New York’s restriction on public carry serves the state’s profound constitutional commitment to free expression…”

      Haw haw haw! I lived in NY State most of my life, and this is a complete and total lie. NY is a state where subjects (not citizens) must routinely self-censor to avoid trouble with leftist employers and officials. NY is a state whose (disgraced, murderous, sex pervert, ex-) governor stated that people with values and opinions different from his own were not welcome. NY is a state that taxes what it can’t steal and bans what it can’t tax. NY has no commitment to free expression at all! None. Nada. Zippo. NY actively suppresses free expression in whatever way it can. It will continue to do so until every leftist in the state government is rooted out and banned from power… but I’m not holding my breath.

      TTAG trolls: I highly recommend moving to NY. You’d love it!

  14. From the ACLU press release:

    “For centuries, restrictions on concealed weapons have been an important part of maintaining the peace in which social, civic, and economic life thrive,” said NYCLU Executive Director Donna Lieberman.”

    I have never believed the ACLU supports civil rights. They are a group of racist atheist lawyers who eschewed their own Jewish and Christian family religions. They cheered on the police as they attacked anti-abortion Christian protesters in California. As I have said before. The Libertarians Liberals and the Left have NEVER supported the civil rights of Christians. All lead by the ACLU.

    But they all supported American flag burning. They supported the burning of a cross on the private property of a black person. They forced the cops to get badge cameras. Then they forced the cops to turn off the cameras before Trump supporters were attacked by Antifa.

    But they do support antiwar protesters. It was the ACLU that attacked and helped to destroyed the Boy Scouts.

    The ACLU fooled it’s members. Just like the NRA fooled it’s members.

    • Yes.
      The US Constitution, Bill of Rights, and Federalist Papers are NOT like ordering dinner off an a la carte restaurant menu.

      ANYONE who doesn’t stand firm FOR all of them, stand firm AGAINST all of them.

      Those who don’t like this simple truth can hop a flight to the foreign country of their choice. I suggest the neo-marxists, fascists, and socialists get to a country that supports their views. Those machines need fresh human meat to grind up.

  15. And here is another “civil rights” group who was always against civil rights. Homosexuals are socialist progressive in their political orientation. And if it makes you feel better so is the NAACP. A group founded by all white people.

    “WASHINGTON – Lambda Legal and the law firm Williams & Connolly LLP filed an amicus brief on behalf of LGBTQ+ rights organizations Tuesday, urging the Supreme Court to uphold a New York gun regulation that would require individuals carrying guns to show proper cause for doing so”

  16. Shall not be infringed in conjunction with the 14th amendment and supremacy clause takes this out of the hand of the states as the states voted for the 14th amendment.

    People’s ignorance is astounding regarding the idea no one has guns on them. If average gun owners were dangerous to the general populace, those anti gunners would probably be the first to go.

  17. No, actually we need to disband the aclu!! Anothergang that was created with a noble purpose that morphed into just another arm of the communist party of America!

    • They need to be loaded up on planes, then airdropped into China and N Korea. Should find themselves in prison/forced labor camps in no time. There’s always room for another mass grave, to be filled by those who refuse to comply.

  18. These people project their own fears on others or inanimate objects, and then shrike they are being offended or assaulted.

  19. ‘We must destroy the Second Amendment in order to preserve the First. We must destroy the country in order to save it.”

    — Says every Left-Wing moron

  20. All it takes to get Universal Health Care is convincing the ignorant stingy Hillbillies that its cheaper to pay $2,000 in taxes than pay $8,000 for health insurance.

    It literally boils down to convincing enough stingy tight wad ignorant Hillbillies that the number 2 is smaller than the number 8.

    All other countries have figure this out decades ago.

    • I see that your attention span is approximately equal to your IQ, dacian the witless. The subject of the amicus brief was concealed carry in NY. Health care is not only not the subject, it was not even mentioned in either the original opinion OR the amicus brief. DO try to pay attention, keep up, and stay on topic, dacian the dim. Or, preferably, go away and let the adults speak.

      • Dacian is getting old and hes mentioned several times he cant afford his insulin. Hes worried about his health care.
        Maybe it’s no he himself, perhaps his spouse?
        All those civilized countries to live in and he’s wasted his time sticking it out with America and now hes to old to “flee” to one of those countries that is so much better then the U.S. of A.
        Yup I’d be pissed too.

    • I don’t understand why anyone believes that if government pays for medicine that it’s going to take less time to develop, less testing to ensure it works, less money to produce. Or that a doctor’s education will take less time and money.

      Unless government decides that professors get less pay, doctors don’t have to learn as much, manufacturing companies should get paid less for equipment, people researching new medicines should take a pay cut, and government should get to decide when a person dies.

      A 75% reduction in healthcare costs? Lol, not even the most generous pro big government estimates would come even close to a 50% reduction

  21. I think present day “progressive” thought has its roots in the 60’s campus radical movement. To me anyway, it’s passing strange that their idea of liberalism morphed from the unhindered ability to use profanity, free love, free drugs, do your own thing – you can’t judge anyone unless you’ve walk a mile in their moccasins, to where it is today.

    Paradoxically, Progressives seem to think taking away freedom and individual liberty somehow makes us more free.

    • Walking a mile in their moccasins, ? Cottonmouths? .
      So that’s where the phrase, “Snakes in the boots came from”.
      Whew, can you imagine, walking a mile with cottonmouths in your boots.
      It’s bad enough walking a block with this boa constrictor in my pants.
      Pets or not.

    • Freedom is slavery. Just so difficult to make all those decisions. Just better to let the guiding hand make them all for us.

      / sarc

      • To your point…In the early 1980’s the old Soviet Union allowed a limited number of Jews to emigrate to the US. Believe it or not, a number of them went back to the Soviet Union after living in the States for a couple of years. The most common reason they gave was that life was too hard here. There were too many choices and too much personal responsibility. They felt more comfortable having the State provide them everything – minimal though it was – rather than face having to provide for themselves.

        Sam Adams said it best:
        “If ye love wealth better than liberty,
        the tranquility of servitude
        better than the animating contest of freedom,
        go home from us in peace.
        We ask not your counsels or your arms.
        Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you.
        May your chains set lightly upon you,
        and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.”

  22. If someone is engaged in a reasonable discussion, or debate, why would anyone pull a weapon? Could it be that the ACLU is trying to encourage hate?
    And of course, we will get the argument from some that this is how things are done in Europe, or some so called civilized country. So, why, if the US is such a dangerous, racist place are so many trying to come here? Could it be that the US is still the best chance for someone to improve their lot in life?

  23. @Serpent_Vision
    “And argument that, like many against looaer concealed carry laws, relies on the premise that these dangerous, trigger-happy would-be murderers are also responsible enough that they won’t carry if the law says they can’t.”

    Demanding logic is racissississ.

    • I was taught by my Dad to always speak softly, and carry a big 45acp.
      Time marches on and things change. I carry a double stack 45acp now, along with two extra mags. 🤔

  24. Oh I forgot, freedom of speech.
    Sarcoxie Missouri just took down its cities facebook page, no more bad mouthing Sarcoxie by gawd

  25. Cui Bono.

    Who created 3-judge appellant reviews? Lawyers? Doesn’t the government always demand en banc review? Doesn’t the government prevail in the overwhelming number of cases directed to en banc review? What is the point of the 3-judge review?

    • Sam,

      Several thoughts/comments:

      1. ANYONE can “request” en banc review when an appeal is filed;
      2. NO ONE (including the gummint) is “entitled” to en banc;
      3. En banc is usually (in all courts) reserved for “rehearings” by the same court.
      4. Finally, if either side is unsatisfied with an Appeals Court ruling, they can EITHER (and usually do both), (a) request a “rehearing en banc” to review the initial Court of Appeals decision, (b) file a writ of certiorari to SCOTUS.

      Few, if any, Federal Courts of Appeal decide initial appeals by other than by a three judge panel (standard format for Federal Courts of Appeal, and totally authorized by both enabling legislation and ‘custom and practice’). ‘Rehearings en banc’ are fairly unusual, and typically reserved for those situations where a court you would NORMALLY expect to make a predictably partisan ruling (best example, the Ninth Circus), slips up and rules “incorrectly” (against what the Leftists want). Likely to be overturned by the Ninth sitting en banc (which isn’t even actually “en banc” – the Ninth Circus has 25 or more judges, and “en banc” is 11 judges sitting as a panel. Weird, eh??).

      • The three-judge review seems to be a lawyer gimmick to drive billable hours.

        Tried to research the number of “en banc” reviews for 2020, but can’t seem to figure out the right search terms.

        BTW, notice how many appeals court rulings are no longer applicable nationwide? Courts ain’t political.

        • Well, TECHNICALLY, no Circuit Court of Appeals ruling is applicable “nationwide”. It only applies to the Federal District Courts within that Circuit. If it is a ruling on a FEDERAL law, or even a Federal District Court case, is NOT accepted by SCOTUS for review, it is considered “persuasive authority” in other Federal Courts – but is not binding.

          Even a Court of Appeals ruling that is denied certiorari isn’t necessarily precedent nationwide (although the denial of cert. may lend it some additional ‘heft’ in other courts). Only SCOTUS rulings are considered binding precedent “nationwide”.

  26. I never listen to the ACLU. They don’t know what they are talking about. It has been proven time and again, especially in other countries, that the 2nd amendment protects the 1st amendment. Venezuela, the Former Soviet Union, China, Cuba are all perfect example of this. And even the United States, when they used Jim Crow laws, including gun control, to keep African Americans down. Oh and dacien, guess what, it was democrats who did that and furthermore, a democrat Governor currently (North Carolina) who kept one of those Jim Crow gun laws in place. So take your bull crap elsewhere. No one on here is buying your liberal bull crap.

    • I think everyone is giving the little commissar a drubbing today. His responses are devolving into short personal attacks instead of the usual sesquipedalian loquaciousness.

      • I’m totally fed up with the massive POS. Telling me I fabricated the incident where my son having a rifle in his home saved his life shortly after his 20th birthday.

        Where Whiner49er has earned the “this is where we throw our heads back and laugh”, lil d turd will now get the following response after comments to TTAG………

        He certainly has earned the title. 👍

  27. @LampOfDiogenes
    “Well, TECHNICALLY, no Circuit Court of Appeals ruling is applicable “nationwide”.”

    Unless the president is Trump (or any other non-Leftist), then every federal injunction applies nationwide.

  28. “I have to give you credit for that one! Fact check: True. Sad, but true.”

    Happy to be here, grateful for the opportunity, proud to serve.


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