By LC Judas
While my previous posts on the virtues of the .40 S&W round seemed to stirred the sleeping dragon known as the “pistol caliber wars”, that wasn’t really the intent. And today it’s time to talk about what the .40 Smith & Wesson brought about by the nature of round’s existence. There is a lot to thank the .40 for and it usually gets no credit. The round’s virtues go far beyond the fact that it reliably penetrates the 12-18 inches of ballistic gelatin, as it was originally designed . . .
First, the fact that the .40 is easily one of the best upgrades to 9mm handguns there ever was is an easily overlooked and fun fact. I use the Browning Hi Power case for my example. While Smith & Wesson and GLOCK made most of the original sales of handguns chambered in .40 to law enforcement, they weren’t the only game in town. Browning rushed to market with a .40 Hi Power on the 9mm frame they’d been using and it essentially failed. The gun experienced accelerated wear which warped the frames, ruined tolerances and accuracy over a time period that was well below acceptable service life for the effective round count.
That example, as well as some other models from other manufacturers that never made it to market or ended up with teething problems made it clear that it would require beefing up the 9mm platform if they wanted to offer a .40 in the same form factor. This lesson was well-learned by Heckler & Koch as they offered their USP models in .40 first before moving to 9mm and .45ACP. The tougher platform increased the service life of 9mm pistols across the board, as the trend caught on, and being the most popular caliber in the country it served a good purpose in extending the life of the secondary market of 9mm handguns.
The .40 was also the first caliber of handgun to regularly share holsters with another caliber. While that seems minor now, back then semi-auto handguns were a lot harder to fit as specs could differ slightly between models even if they shared fundamentally similar designs. Anyone who has tried getting fitted holsters for a Sig 229 knows how many variants of rail they have and that the 228, which is very similar isn’t the same and won’t let you share the same holster.
Holsters weren’t the only thing being shared between .40s and 9mm handguns. After companies had for the most part started producing .40 and 9mm in the same frames, conversion kits for converting a .40 gun down to 9mm began to hit the market. Converting a gun to .22 can be fun for plinking and training, but having the ability to go to 9mm — when ammunition for .40 was a lot more scarce and expensive — was a godsend.
Caliber conversions from .40 to 9mm are usually accomplished with just a simple barrel swap. That makes the .40 one of the most aftermarket-friendly handguns out there because it was born as the bastard child of both 9mm and 10mm designs. Prior to that, modularity in the pistol realm really had, for the most part, only been achieved by making .22LR kits for .45ACP pistols. There was also the necked-down 9mm in a 10mm case known as the 9x25mm (9mm Dillon) which had a special purpose in competition, but it never caught on as a mainstream law enforcement or defensive round. With the advent of the .40 you got a gun with an easy slide assembly or barrel swap to the much-loved 9mm.
That advent of the .40 created a huge aftermarket for customization, too. If you regularly run a .40 pistol in 9mm, you’re probably going to consider lighter springs, alternative mags and the springs to fuel them. Wolff makes their bread and butter off of exactly that. There are other recoil systems that minimize wear and tear if you run hot loads – like those from Sprinco – that minimize bolt flash. That’s something that’s a marked issue with .357SIG.
Owning a gun in multiple calibers without needing to make multiple outlays for more firearms is also going to make reloading a lot more tempting (especially in calibers where there simply is no wide availability of ammunition like .50GI). That fuels the market for gear like chronographs, reloading dies and presses as well as associated materials. Buying fewer firearms means you have more money for ammo and that gets more shooters in the sport and exposed to two calibers with one pistol (four if you add a 357SIG barrel and .22 kit with it).
That also helps if you’re trying to do apples-to-apples comparisons with firearms from the same make with the same manual of arms and appearance to cultivate the same reflexes for use, keeping the same parts for repairs and enhancements. I still have GLOCK parts (of various brands) floating around the armory from my mad customization days.
The .40 inspired more than just more gear. The 357SIG, another caliber with a whole unique set of ballistics in the defense and duty caliber debate, was spawned directly from the .40 Smith & Wesson. It was necked down in much the same way the .40 was born in the shell casings of 10mm pistols.
Following on that precedent, Magnum Research came up with the .440 Cor-bon (necked from .50AE) for Desert Eagles, .400 Cor-bon (necked from .45ACP), and the invention of the .50GI from Guncrafter Industries in the 1911 platform saw GLOCK .45 platforms get a slide assembly and mag for the purpose.
A lot of people think that .40S&W is a solution in search of a problem and more fuel for a fire that needs to burn out, but it fills a vital role in the defense and duty caliber hierarchy. Its existence is a testament to ingenuity and persistence, as the 10mm round could have just as easily fallen out of favor and been replaced by .45 or 9mm by the FBI. But the .40 bridges that gap between 9mm and .45, highlighting the weaknesses of both rounds at the time. The concept of a consistent set of criteria used to test them raised the bar for what was considered acceptable ammunition. The tests used to evaluate all calibers became standardized after the .40 came into being, more respected than reading books with outdated opinion or outright speculation many accepted as fact.
No, .40 isn’t the best caliber out there, but nothing is. That’s reality. But what the round does in ballistic gel isn’t conjecture. Manufacturers now are able to see how the end users test their products and they develop them accordingly. The HST from Federal is a direct result of looking at what was desired ballistically and building a bullet accordingly instead of simply theorizing on what might be effective.
Expansion and penetration in any caliber is now the universal standard for what works; the old “stopping power”, “power factor” or “one-shot stop” measures weren’t realistic or objective standards. Today, the Black Talon is a pice of ballistic engineering history because of the political fallout, but if the gelatin tests had been the standard used at the time, I doubt they would have fallen from favor the way they did.
Even if you’re not a fan of the .40, you can’t deny that the firearms market now is far more comprehensive because of it. Now we have tougher 9mm firearms and when a company comes out with a new nine we we’re eager for the follow-on .40S&W, 357SIG and .22 models to fit the same holsters and mag pouches. For the folks who say .40 was good for its time and that bullet technology now is better, that’s because the high bar resulted from the inception of the .40. Without the drive to compare it to the 9mm and .45, the improvements in those more popular caliber’s would likely have been much slower in coming.
Better guns, better ammo and more selection safeguards the Second Amendment better than any closed-minded .45 or 9mm cultist claiming the old guns and ammo work just fine and there’s no reason for change. Why alienate when you can assimilate? More choice and innovation is better. MAC made the statement last year that he feels .40 is fading, but looking at what it has done and how much it has caught on…I doubt the manufacturers and consumers have gotten that memo or will anytime soon.
What I got from reading this:
-People care about .357 sig?
-The author is trying to justify his purchase of a .40 when modern 9mm or .45 is equally effective
-.40 was cool in the 90s/early 2000s
OK this is 100 percent real, look at it yourself
Im grateful for all you .40 haters. Its much easier to find .40 ammo than 9mm or .45 around here.
^^ This LOL
I shoot a lot of 40 – so any less pressure on the supply line is very much appreciated!
Same here (far northern California)-which kind of surprised me in a semi-rural area where all the cops carry .40 Glocks. Nothing is on the shelf in the stores I frequent except .40 and an occasional box of overpriced 9 mm SD ammo.
Think of a 40 as a 10mm short, downloaded to the lower end of the 10mm range. The shorter cartridge enables it to fit smaller hands with the 10mm light ballistics and a higher round count then the typical .45.
The .40 was a practical way to get the benefits of the 10mm in a practical package.
Improvements in bullet design have helped all calibers and kept the 9mm still in the game.
I remember the infamous FBI shootout, and when I joined the Sheriff’s Reserve Deputy Program in the early ’90s, I went with a new offering by Sig Sauer -the P229. I wasn’t about to go 9mm. The P229 has served me well and I never failed to qualify on the first attempt. I’ve never have had to shoot anyone (knock on wood), but I feel the .40S&W will do it job efficiently. As Apple IPhone has its fanboys, so does the 9mm. Of course they are going to bad mouth the .40S&W.
Good point. As an iPhone user, I would rather defend myself with a 9mm.
I recently went to the range with this rifle. Bought it new less than a week ago.
I can confirm the fact that the compensator IS LOUD AS S%$^. Almost as loud as my M1A Scout Squad. I didn’t realize how bad it was until one by one the range staff came up to me and asked WTH I was shooting. Everyone seemed to be impressed by how loud it was. I also noticed that the compensator isn’t lined up exactly at 12 o’clock when looking down on the gun.
Also, the muzzle flash bright enough to light up the next town over.
I’m not a good enough shot to comment on accuracy and I was using an aimpoint, so I can’t really comment there.
I don’t quit agree, my Browing 40 is around 25 years old and I shoot It on a regular basis. Its a gem and 4″-5″ patterns never fails. I also own 45 and 9mm. The 40 out shoots these cals. It’s one of the best and most reliable guns in my armament. Take care and be careful out there.
The best thing about the 40 S&W is the 357 Sig.
Has this guy even considered the mathematical fact that murders have generally been declining over the past 20+ years, despite the increase in the U.S. population?
I mean, I figured that out years ago, and I didn’t need a degree from Harvard to tell me I’m right.
I love my .40. It does have the ft lbs at impact of a .45 and the muzzle velocity of a .357. Range, accuracy and knockdown power. I’ll keep it thank you.
“Knockdown power”
You lose the interwebz for today, Larry Potterfield.
“…the .40 bridges that gap between 9mm and .45,… ”
Correction: the .40 JUMPS the gap between 9mm and .45, and somehow manages to emerge with a pistol that can often be harder to control in rapid fire than the .45acp.
There’s little question that the .40 has strong terminal ballistics. But the cost of that is the least controllable duty caliber in America. That’s why increasingly more LE orgs are returning to the 9mm, helped along by better developments in 9mm bullets in the last ten years.
Correction: the .40 jumped the shark between the 9mm and .45. Though I do like my Glock 20 and 27 in 10mm. .40, .357sig, and 9mm. Six guns for the price of two! Lone Wolf barrels not included…
You forgot to add:
“And lo, it shall be fired from a Springfield Armory XDm, thus sayeth the Lord.”
Berretta up calibared the 92 into a .40 cal and its a piece of crapolla. The Maryland State Police bought them and have been in litigation for years because the gun is unreliable and generally worthless. That up conversion of the pistol was reminiscent of how back in the 70’s GM converted gasoline engines to diesel and managed to kill the diesel car market in the US for 40 years,
Oh how I loath everything GM.
Sorry to hear you were denied CC L. Do I understand you have a FOID CARD? If so I don’t understand why you were denied. I also live in Cook County,Illinois. Haven’t tried to get a CCL($). Trying to move to Indiana a mile away. From what you wrote I don’t see you as some big threat. I have a crazy Ex-wife who accused me of all kinds of crap that NEVER happened. GOOD LUCK SHAWN. Illinois sucks.
I’m sure that your beautiful collections are safely tucked away in Fort Knoxian gun safes by you elite readers. I’m a utilitarian kinda guy and my Glock 21 fits my meathook hands, and needs, perfectly. I’ve never fired a Sig Sauer, but can attest to my 21’s ease at target re-acquisition – I practice by keeping (or trying to) a solid core tennis ball, really my Rottie’s chew toy, in the air for the full clip – of-course I’m never able to do it – perhaps I’ll next try a hot air balloon.
I’m a retired mechanical engineer and have never liked to use phenolic composites in high stress applications – period. Ever since I owned a Mustang II V6 with a composite camshaft gear – which ran ever so quietly (but tended to disintegrate at temperatures below +20F, unless you woke up at 4AM to crank it gently and allow it to warm-up until 7:45), when I left for work. I only used them in non-critical applications. So I also have a blued-steel Ruger GP-100 .357 with a 4″ barrel for whenever I’m in doubt.
I bought my 21 from a wholesaler who sent it to my local, but very rural gun shop about 12 years ago, after hearing Tommy Lee Jones tell Robert Downey Jr to buy one in “US Marshalls”. Tommy Lee referenced their ability to operate in an AK-47 environment, after dropping them into really nasty goo. I like that feature. While I care for my firearms, I’m not a fanatic about it. I clean ’em after I shoot ’em and hose them down with a good gun oil whenever I remember to between ball-killing sessions.
I rarely shoot my Ruger as all of my Lumbar disks have danced their last dance. As twisting is painful, I like my 21 because it expends most of its recoil energy in chambering the next round – it’s a comfortable AND FUN pistol to shoot.
I bought mine about 12 years ago, and even though I’m a GA native, I’m glad mine was made in Austria. I’m sure the Glock plant in Smyrna, GA, phased in the 21 frame after the more preferred calibers and frame sizes were up and running, and with all new production kinks (that invariably occur) worked out.
I read the accuracy reports and can only say that the wallop of a 230 gr .45 caliber bullet will cause the aggressor to have second thoughts even if I’ve missed my primary target by 4″ at 25 yards, especially with him knowing that my DAWG has 12 more bites left in her before I bring in the reserves. At 5 yards, if you can’t hit an aggressor anywhere, I’d consider a different method of self preservation.
The story about why Police Officers were issued .38s, instead of .45s, is that if you are hit by a .38 in the shoulder, leg or arm, it would cause a perp to become very compliant and cease his hostilities. The .45 would disarm him, literally. Colt .357 Pythons were issued to State Troopers Nationwide and to some Sheriff’s Deputies, as help might be some time in coming. Collateral damage is also a major concern – apartment walls are made from recycled something-or-other, and supplied by the Chinese – incapable of stopping even the sickliest housefly.
In today’s world of ultra-violent urban conflicts between Law Enforcement and the Bad Guys, I’d want the sex appeal that Ma Deuce provides (me and Sly Stallone), when i drape the cartridge belt over my shoulder as I step out of the SWAT-mobile.
The last thing I have to say, finally, is that while I’m an ardent supporter of our Second Amendment liberties, we, as responsible gun owners MUST do everything in our power to stop the random an mindless assassination of our Children and Grandchildren while they are in their classrooms, or merely walking down the street.
I don’t give a rat’s behind if those involved in gun thuggery kill off each other at a rate so high as to have ZPG become a reality. But to save the lives of the innocent is a sacred trust was given to us by whichever higher power we as individuals answer to.
Thanks for giving me the platform from which I can talk about the Glock .45ACP Frame 21 that was made specifically for me, and of the responsibilities we must assume as gun owners. It is our RIGHT to bear arms; it is our DUTY to ensure that that Right is not abused.
Regards to all.
I don’t want to get hit with a supper soaker let alone with a bullet.
…mmm, supper.
I would have titled this something more like “.40 S&W: A Middling Round.” It’s far from perfect and manages to take some of the most significant disadvantages of other rounds while gaining only modest performance increases. And ballistic gel, while it may be the best simulated substance cheaply available, is fairly limited in what it can tell about a real wound.Whatever happened to shooting pigs?
Could you expound on the disadvantages of the .40S&W over other rounds?
Everyone knows…….
The best pistol is the one you are willing to carry with you.
The best caliber is the one you are comfortable shooting and can depend on reliably hitting your intended target.
Shot placement is more important than caliber (generally).
A North American .22 Magnum in the eye beats a .44 Magnum miss every time.
Practice, practice, practice. Carry what you are comfortable shooting and make sure you can hit your target.
Meanwhile, 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP are all acceptable and arguing that anyone else should carry one or the other just because YOU like it is…
+1 to what Cliff just said.
….amusing.
This is very interesting, You are a very skilled
blogger. I have joined your rss feed and look forward to seeking more of
your wonderful post. Also, I’ve shared your website in my social networks!
The 9mm is much easier to hit with in compact and subcompact lightweight polymer guns. In a full size gun I’ll take a 40 or a 45. Even Rob Pincus has gone back to recommending and personally using the 9mm over the 40.. He feels the data suggests the more holes you put in a bad guy is more important than how powerful the round itself is to a point, and that most people hit better with a 9.
During the ammo shortage I could find .40, but no .45 or 9mm due to haters. Good stuff.
The .40 S&W is clearly a superior performer to any 9MM loading, with all else being equal of course, and with a similar round-count (15+1 vs. 17+1 in the S&W M&P line for example) and minimal weight penalty. You can find (high-dollar and very hot) loads that will match or even exceed the venerable .45 ACP +P for energy and penetration (and with a higher round count).
The only downside I’ve found is the recoil impulse, which is worse than just about anything short of a full-house 10MM (and don’t get me started on magnums).
Caliber comparison (HST).
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g299/355sigfan/bullets/9mm4045HST.jpg
What I find humorous is the .40 receives even less love than the .380. That’s crazy.
I’ve owned a MKA1919 for several months. I think it’s a GREAT weapon. No problems with mine.
While I certainly do not agree with LC’s contention for the .40SW, I do admire the care and attention to presenting his case well, with well thought-through articles. So, good job there.
I have done a lot of my own personal research and reading about the .40SW and after a lot of time researching and then shooting the .40SW, I have definitively and definitely concluded for myself that modern 9mm JHPs offer everthing I want and need in a SD round.
I like the higher capacity I have with it and the better handling firearm that it provides.
The SIG P320 is certainly an intriguing platform that may well “solve” the caliber wars for a person who can easily swap out calibers.
But good job, LC on making your case.
Caliber wars always make for a “fun” discussion and I think we can all rejoice that (most) of us have the freedom to use whatever the heck we want.
I would underscore the point that everyone should choose wisely and only after a lot of PERSONAL research and experience.
I have watched now hundreds of people using various calibers in defensive handgun classes, from basic to advanced, and in every case the .40SW is a much “snappier” handgun that offers more of a challenge for the shooter with follow up shots. FWIW YMMV.
Happy shooting.
Super. Nazi grammar.
“Between 2010 and 2099, climate change will cause an additional 22,000 murders”
That is so laughably stupid. It goes beyond the fallacy of treating correlation as causation. It reaches new, uber levels of stupidity.
The ultimate cause of such acts as murder and rape are the evil wills of the perpetrators. Colder weather often means less crime, true, in that even evil people tend to be less active and stay at home. But warm weather does not cause crime, just as cold weather does not make people virtuous. It merely is a factor that influences what choices people with free will make.
Crime correlates with many things. E.g., economic fatherhood (that is the rate of fatherhood where fathers are actively involved in raising children) inversely correlates with violent crime. The more 18-45 year olds on the street without familial responsibility, the more crime. Much of the drop in the 1990’s onwards has been due to locking up more people for longer, which has a similar effect of cold weather, less opportunity for crime. But even though crimes rates vary inversely with this economic fatherhood (and very closely too), even that is not causation. Having a child does not turn one away from evil, and being childless does not make someone evil. Rather we have to look for a rational connection. Here I would suggest that the sort of men who would father and take responsibility for a family are generally better than those who reject responsibility (absent fathers e.g.). So all that information tells us is that a sense of responsibility and duty to others is contrary to criminal inclinations and should be fostered
Likewise, all the “cold weather equals less crime” correlation tells us is that if fewer people are out and about, fewer will be targets of crime. There is nothing useful in that, since, short of curfews, mandatory escort laws, etc there is nothing there to use to combat violence. Rather, it is merely a sign that violence is an issue, that when more people are out and about they are prey to evil people. We should be able to be active and not be prey.
I’ll just put this up here, as always, FWIW, I bought my Daniel Defense M4 V1 about … oh, what, four/five years ago and have put thousands of rounds through it. It’s nothing fancy. No gas piston, just the old DI system. It gets dirty. I clean it, occasionally. I slather it with top quality oil and grease every time I take it out. Never has failed me a single time. I drop it on the ground. I bang it around. It has that “comfortably worn in” look now.
I just keeps working.
I was in the super market the other, and I stopped by the poultry stand to pick up a whole chicken. The first one I picket up had this nasty hole going in one side, and when I turned it around there was this chunk of copper right on the edge by the skin, It had a couple of petals flared out and………………………….You don’t suppose ???
Bought the M&P Shield .40 blind. No range or even firing use w/firearm or calibur. Just discussion with a pro who is one of my closest lifetime friends.
I find it fulfilling in every single regard.
Replaced .45 ACP as my carry weapon.
Well said, now give me my weapon back “the 40”. The one with the big grips. Be safe out there guys and gals.
not only should she be more careful, but she needs to start teaching her kid NO TOUCHING GUNS without mommy or daddy. I taught my boy that around the time he was 2 and to this day, he’s very good about this.
Yup, exactly this. No mystery, always a learning experience, and reinforces safety.
This is just a horrible, terrible and easily avoidable incident. My prayers go to the child and the family.
“The young Army wife ”
I stopped reading here. Did not need to know the rest.
I bought a Glock 35 and have put probably 20k rounds thru it… of 9mm. I have never once fired .40 thru it, in fact I still have the 2 100 rd boxes of white box that my FFL threw in at purchase. .40 is the only caliber I own that I have no reloading (or even cleaning) gear for. I figured it would be nice to have the 9/40/357 capability, but I’ve found no real world use for it att all.
I’m not really a fan of the .40. It recoils more than the 9mm, but it doesn’t do a whole lot more than a good 9mm defense load. The extra downside isn’t worth the upside. After owning both a Glock 22 and a 23, I’d choose either a 9mm or a .45 over a .40, but that’s just me.
I love shooting the 40! 165 grain 40 mimics my favorite 357 magnum load (158 grains moving at 1200 fps).
I have a $500 AR that shot right out of the box and continues to do so with no maintenance what so ever. I had a big name $1000 AR that would not shoot right out of the box and I was told all kinds of nonsense by the mfr to try and make it work. I suggested they take it back and fix the over priced POS or give me my money back. They decided to fix it and I decided to sell it. After owning a half dozen different 556 AR’s and three 762 AR’s…i have determined that mktg hype and price have nothing go do with quality and reliability. KMAGYOYO.
Bought a 40 shield couple of weeks ago. Shoots great! My wife and 12 yo son had no problems whatsoever with the 40 shield. I was concerned about the “snappy” recoil, but it was fine. My wife loves this pistol, she has a BG380, I guess I am going to have to get my own shield now! At the range, put 350 rounds of Speer FMJ with NO failure to feed, fire, or eject. Magazine springs are quite stiff and last round is tough to get in there. Overall, very pleased with the Shield 40!
Hmmm…during the ammo shortage .40 was easily the most common caliber I encountered. I still see spotty 9mm. .380MIA most of the time. There’s .45 but it’s more expensive. And not much has changed around here ( Illinois & Indiana ). I’m happy with .40 & shoot it well. If I want stopping power I’ll shoot my 12 gauge.
I find it amazing that there are some on here who go nuts at the “Militarization” of police yet they think anyone else should be able to buy a belt fed machine gun at Kmart.
You can’t have it both ways.
Why not? Our taxes pay for police, if we think select-fire rifles and the latest in mall ninja gear is too expensive or surplus to the needs of average beat cops when PD’s twenty years ago generally got along fine with uniform blues, shotguns and revolvers then why shouldn’t we have some degree of say in that? If cops want better gear, let them pay out of pocket.
You can’t have it both ways.
Oh yes we can. Individuals have rights (and can have privileges) whereas governments, and agents of government, only have privileges. The government is prohibited from infringing upon the individual right to keep and bear arms. The People can limit the privilege of government at the People’s discretion. I’m surprised that you don’t see this as I’ve read some of your other writings. Does government (and agents* thereof) have privileges, rights, or both in your understanding?
(* As individuals, they have rights. However, when acting under the authority of government, they are acting on privilege.)
Yikes.
Worst I have experienced is Ammo Brothers in Cerritos Kalifornia. Definitely mall ninjas, brat 20-somethings who act macho and like talking about their latest build rather that helping customers. You have to take a number for just about anything you may need help with. Over priced, they gouged the day of sandy hook. Never went back.
What ever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”? It sounds to me like they branded you “guilty” based on a ten year old arrest followed by a complete dismissal of charges. You guys have pretty much summed it all up but I had one thing to say. It’s our government trying to “prevent” violence that might not even have the potential to become an issue. What happened to integrity? What happened to letting people show you what they’re made of? I have been shooting for 20+ years and owned guns for ten years and I am sure most of you have owned them for probably double to triple that number. Why is it that ALL OF US can manage to not go on rampages for 200+ years, but a few folks do and now the 200+ years of gun owners that DIDNT are being held to a standard where we are almost EXPECTED to go nuts and kill people!!! FOCUS ON REAL CRIMES, NOT FICTIONAL CRIMES THAT “MIGHT” TAKE PLACE. From the moment we purchase a firearm, its like they are waiting for us to slip. As if its a matter of time. They are working so hard to prevent gun owners from being statistics that they are letting real criminals walk right by. Legal firearms are not the issue here. The fact that I can go to downtown Sacramento with a thousand dollars and find a fully auto AK before I get to Starbucks….. Thats the issue. Shawn, I don’t know you. I probably never will. What I do know is that you are being wronged by the bastards that are proving that gun control is a failure. Hopefully soon they will stop trying to PREVENT folks from getting firearms and treat the source of the problem:PEOPLE. What happened to holding people accountable? What happened to letting people be free and punishing the ones who COMMIT CRIMES?! Possibly AFTER IT HAPPENS?! Rather than assuming we are all trying to go on rampages…seems a little twisted, no? Good luck Shawn, I’m sure you’re a decent dude. I am sorry that our government is so stupid. I’m probably gonna move to AZ or CO. Maybe not CO…..let’s see how the stoners do with firearms first.
Reporter’s unprovoked question causes police spokesman to discharge his mouth accidentally. Further investigation determined that a pre-conceived notion had been accidentally placed on his oral trigger, causing the premature oration.
At the age of 2 kids are still learning to speak let alone comprehend…yes they grasp things but not everything. @neiowa i dont know of any 2yr old that can hit a light switch or the strength to even break the vacuum seal of a refridgerator door. And you expect for that 2yr old child to understand what a gun is capable of doing or to have an adult talk about crime and murder to a child of that age.
I have a Ruger mk III, 22/45 lite in gold. I have big hands and like the way a .45 feels. Take down and mag extraction were buggers til I found this site. Now one hex screw and the bolt comes out. I also bought a mkII hammer so that the mags would drop when I hit the button. One evening +45 minutes. Watch the video.
http://www.eabco.com/Ruger_Mk_III_Speed_Strip.html
Pardon my French but, I call BULLSHIT.
I am cutting some slack for the officer on this one. Unless there is video showing all the events leading up to it that might change my mind.
However the PD was way off base. In fact LIED about the events.
Good to see some of you have such highly evolved & super intelligent 2 year olds. NO, your 2 year old ain’t THAT great. Do any of YOU remember being 2?
I do, I’ve got memories back to just before I was 2. Namely my first airplane ride and a specific butt whooping involving a puddle of water and a baby suit. I remember being very wide eyed and confused and had no idea what I even remembered until I rode an airplane again when I was 10. Turns out you climb onto a plane using a jetway, and the jetway is not the plane’s wing. I don’t think I even thought in complete sentences yet. I also remember catching my first fish at 3 with my dad and granpa, first riding my bike without training wheels at my grandads house on my 4th birthday, and going to kindergarten. Do people not remember stuff like that? Seems important to me.
I like to keep a couple pistols in all the common calibers. I have a SW40VE (bring the hate… good as Glock with better grips for $250 new), SD40VE (see above with better trigger), and a Hi Point .40 carbine ($150, old ugly stock). I have a handful of 9mm pieces including 3 CZ75 variants (am I redeemed?) that I rarely score ammo for, but there I am at Wallyworld World staring at stacks of .40 while my .22lr and 9mm sit quietly waiting to eat. My only .45 isn’t a 1911, either. Scored a S&W 457 that looks new, and I can feed it, too.
“.. a preponderance of evidence that you pose a danger to yourself or others….
Danger to yourself is only used legally if the person denied posed a danger to himself, as in suicide. So that voluntary admission to a ward might have been for a suicide attempt. That would be terminal as far as CCW is concerned.
I have Kimber CDP II and Gold Match II. Wonderful firearms. Bought both used and have had no problems. Great way to avoid break in problems. Handled your Micro yesterday. I have Kahr P380. Both are same size or so close it doesn’t matter, Kahr is slightly lighter. Kahr has longer trigger pull. Kimber micro CDP is really a beautiful little gun. If you have the money and the ego, get the Kimber. I also had 238. Cocked and locked does not bother me. I still like the Kahr because of weight
You simply CANNOT teach a child under the age of about 4 to NEVER do something.
They quickly develop the motor skills for simple actions…especially ones they see on
TV routinely. But it takes FAR longer for them to develop the mental faculties to understand
and remember an admonishment to NOT do something. Unlike a child who burns a hand
on something hot which literally sears that conditioning into their psyche the admonition to
never touch a weapon simply will not stick in the mind of a child. Even elementary age school
children who can remember what bus to take home and the combo to their locker at school
have trouble with such tasks. For homes with children who have not reached puberty the
best course of action is to keep ALL weapons locked away if not ON THE BODY. And even
then there is no absolute guarantee that something bad won’t happen.
Nick,
Great review, your past reviews, like the Tavor, SCAR-17S, and now the PWS MK114, are very candid, informative, and no BS. I always enjoy reading your reviews. Thanks again
40SW rocks everything else sucks socks.
Consequences… http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/03/31/protesters-converge-on-albuquerque-streets-over-police-shooting/
Tech alert: Is anyone else unable to reply to individual posts and replies on the mobilesite? Or us it just my crummy phone?
Tom
Hi-Cap 1911 in .40 = 19 rounds of fun. yes, I carry my competition gun. my backup’s a .380
oh the trigger?
If your finger’s on it you’re about shoot it!
Sorry, but living in the “progressive” state of Massachusetts, I, an average citizen am not allowed to own such scary looking gun.
In a free market, even empathy scales demand.
-D
If you want to sell it, why even mention that it’s your first AR build? Say what your dream is, and that this AR isn’t it. Somebody will buy it. Or they’ll offer you what they’ll pay. It’s not that nobody wants to buy it. It’s that nobody that’s seen it so far wants to buy it for what you want to sell it for. Used to hear the same thing years ago in the housing collapse. “Our house won’t sell, it’s been on the market for two years.” No, if you put a lower price on the thing, like $200K for a $200K market value, not $300K (what you owe) on a $200K market value… you might get some interest. Beauty and VALUE is in the eye of the buyer, not the seller.
It doesn’t matter WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT. Not one whit, it doesn’t. It matters what people want, and how much they’ll pay for it. For guns, if people are willing to pay close to new prices for parts, they probably don’t want used ones. Sorry to say it, but custom guns are used. If you ever thought you’d get your money out of a used custom built gun, you’re mistaken…
I got it.
What about robbing people under a bridge? Or cooking meth (it worked out fine in Breaking Bad)?
I must admit, it is a nice rifle. The color is nice and it seems like a “heavy” build. Though I can’t understand the short sight radius and quad rail.
Gunbroker gathers personal information as a way to prevent fraud. The point of their database is that if someone tries to rip a buyer or seller off (fail to pay for a purchase or failure to send item that has been paid for), the offender’s personal information will be in the system and gunbroker can take appropriate action.
I have no problem with this. Fraud is a serious problem on the internet, and it makes sense to collect some personal info to deter potential scammers. As for the claim that they have a “gun database”, that’s highly dubious. It’s just a record of gun transactions (transactions also are removed after a certain amount of time. It doesn’t record what happends to the guns after they are sold or where they go. If someone moves to a different address after buying the gun, that won’t be recorded on gunbroker. Add that in with the fact that the records are maintained by a private organization, not the government, and I don’t see a problem.
Being in the business of building AR’s and uppers most people don’t care about the name on the rifle, they care about the price. In today’s market that will be a hard number to reach. I just bought an AR from a guy for 1200.00 (his price) with an 800.00 acog on it. Sold the scope and reused the parts for other builds.
I’d argue that this is exactly how capitalism is supposed to work. A system in which something is only as valuable as what someone is willing to give you for it.
What’s the theory behind the short sight radius? Optics interefered with the usual placement?
Even blind dogs find bones now and then. Mr. Y should crawl in a ditch and stay there. Nobody wants to hear what he thinks.
Thats the problem with tying mental health with handgun licensing/permits to carry. We all agree that crazy people who are unbalanced and don’t know right from wrong shouldn’t have access to guns. But the issue becomes in drawing the line. There is also the issue of heathcare information privacy.
ssue #1: who draws the line of what is too crazy to own/carry a firearm. Depending on the politics of the individual, that line could range from no one except police/military all the way to everyone including ex-cons and crazy people.
Issue #2: Where is the line drawn. Do you deny anyone who sought marital counseling or had a temporary bout of depression and was on meds for 6 months after a divorce/miscarriage? The person in this case sought voluntary in-patient treatment. Apparently the individual was sane enough to know they needed help, and I bet they are much better than the average person in denial.
Issue #3: Most important. Will tying applying for a permit/license actually cause people to avoid seeking mental health? As an example, what about that Iraq/Afghan war vet with PTSD? He is perfectly normal. A patriot in every sense. Of any citizen, they have earned the right to be able to defend themselves. However, they have a little trouble sleeping from the nightmares so they consider going to the VA to get some counseling or medication. Except they know they will lose their rights to have/carry firearms in doing so. So they ignore the warning signs and do not seek treatment. This is the perfect example of actually hurting someone who deserves help, needs help, but do to knee jerk responses that were not well thought out, we have set the conditions for a potential problem.
I watched the video before reading your post RF. Amazingly I had the exact same thought as your closing remark. I’m starting to like this guy. He has risen to the semi-interesting level with a small dose of humor. Who knows where this will go? Maybe at some point he replaces Jimmy Kimmel or
whats-his-name over on The Tonight show?
While I laud the group’s goals, I really have to question the situational awareness of a resident who opens the door to someone who (a) they don’t know and (b) is carrying a weapon.
I hope to live in a society where that would be the norm, or at least about as worthy of comment as whether the person was wearing a ball cap … But right now, that’s not us.
I know, microstamp the primer to say “wrong house” let’s vote on it shall we?
The NYT, suitable for birdcages everywhere.
NRA?
I agree with the sentiment, but you need to define what a hoplophobe is. We all know it, but your average “person on the street” has no idea.
Patrick said, “how many ‘real’ armed forces use polymer pistols (Sorry Romania!)?”
That was posted a few years ago, and definitely more true at the time. Considering the fact that the British army will now start issuing the Glock 17 gen4 to its soldiers (In replacement of the Hi-Power), I think that it shows a growing respect for the polymer wonder.
Amendment II. “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
Amendment IIA. “Arms are any and all weapons desighned, used, or otherwise desired for defence/offence. Shall not be infringed means there shall be no law pased by no man that restricts this right from anyone.”
Amendment IIB. “Any public servant found to be engaged in violating this right may be shot, stabed, detonated, burned, or otherwise affected by the arms used by those attacked by the public servant.”
Be cautious about modifying the 2nd Amendment. If the idea of modifying the core amendments for the “better” becomes viable, you can be sure that moves to modify them to restrict our rights will follow. Instead of fighting smaller state level governments, we would be fighting constitutional regulation. You don’t want to go there.
I’m joining in Facebook support. The NSA, DHS, ATF, IRS, and DOJ are fully aware that I am pro Bill of Rights. CT is definitely in trouble, but they deserve out support. The next psycho who shoots up a “gun free zone” might be in your state. Wouldn’t you want support from responsible gun owners if that happened in one of your schools or theatres?
89,764 violent crimes committed with a gun reported…hmmm…you are undercounting actually!
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/violent-crime/violent-crime
SEE OVERVIEW
“Information collected regarding types of weapons used in violent crime showed that firearms were used in 69.3 percent of the nation’s murders, 41.0 percent of robberies, and 21.8 percent of aggravated assaults.”
14,827 murders x 69.3% = 10,275
354,420 robberies x 41% = 145,312
760,739 assaults x 21.8% = 165,841
Total violent crimes reported involving the illegal use of a firearm = 321,428
My EDC is a S&W M&P .40 FS TS. It is an easy firearm to shoot. Since it was purchased at the height of the firearm and ammunition shortage, this is what I could get. Also, most of the only readily avaible ammunition in my local gun stores was .40S&W.
I carried a High Power in .40. I couldn’t get 1000 rounds out of the spring. I briefly replaced it with a new production 1911; it was problematic. My current EDC is a S&W M&P .40 FS TS.
Dan,
Keep it up and keep posting pieces like this! I own and shoot pretty much every standard caliber aside from .357 Sig, or .38 Super. They all have their roles, uses and I enjoy them all recreational and there isn’t one that I cannot find a suitable defensive load for.
But for me, .40 was, is and remains my favorite of them all. It just sits at that wonderful middle ground between 9mm, .45 ACP and even 10mm. I just wish more manufacturers such as perhaps Colt and Kimberly would get in the .40 game! Then again I also wish they’d branch out a little bit and offer something other than amazing 1911 frame handguns… Can’t win ’em all I guess.
Different strokes for different folks.
Newest purchase for me: M&P .40 Shield. After very satisfactory practice, it replaced Colt Commander 1991 as my go to carry piece.
I’m happy. Your results may vary.
I don’t agree that the 40 Smith and Wesson is the perfect middle ground. With modern, bonded, hollow-point defensive ammunition the performance of one round of any caliber (9mm, 40, 45, 357) are very similar. The fact that 9mm is easier to shoot means it can be shot faster. Since the medical damage is about the same for every defensive handgun caliber, the one that you can hit with the fastest is the best.
I have shot 9mm and .45 for years, got bored with 9mm as I can shoot it accurately as fast as I can pull the trigger (no challenge) out to 20 yards. The .45 is more of a challenge to get on target quickly after the first shot. Then for the first time I shot a .40, recoil? what recoil?, I shot 9mm and .40 back to back in a Sig P226 and was just as fast and just as accurate with the .40. But then again I am 6′ 1″ and 205lbs…so I guess I need to go shoot a 10mm to see what the recoil “fuss” is all about. I like shooting .45 in +P at 185, 200, and 230. I get the big bore and velocity…a nice combination. I live in Kalifornistan, so am limited to 10 rounds, may as well be the big ones…
One reason people, especially as of late, seem to bash the .40 is because they’re gullible, by that I mean listen to how many gun writers or tactically dressed bearded “hipsters” say the 9mm is the best because in their mindset a pistol is next to worthless to begin with and since they’re so bad let’s carry the one that gives the best capacity and the least recoil. Lets’s face it, most cannot shoot a handgun very proficiently so in that sense I can see why they would praise the 9mm.
I like the 9mm, .40 and .45 but to me where the .40 shines is that it gives you the biggest bullet in a 9mm sized platform, nearly 9mm capacity and ballistics that, in cases, can exceed the .45. There’s so many comments on here that make no sense at all, and I get that many just don’t like or just don’t have a good reason to buy a .40 and that’s fine, but concerning the big three, they’re all lethal but they’re not equal either.
I’ll even say the .40 isn’t far behind a 10mm, and we all know if there’s ever a kool-aid drinking bunch it’s the 10mm crowd. No I like the 10mm too but come on, some of the more gullible types will actually start to think the 10mm is like a .41 Mag or something, when that’s an apples to bananas comparison, the .40 vs 10mm is closer to a red delicious vs gala apple comparison.
So ballistically the .40 is no slouch, my G23 with handloads can run 180gr close to 1200 and the G35 can surpass 1300, I’m not aware of a .45 ACP, let alone a 9mm that can do that, and like I said, not far behind the “mythical” 10mm at all. Of course for the less accomplished handgunners out there the .40 can be loaded to shoot just as lightly as the lightest 9mm so it doesn’t disturb their apparently weak wrists.
The .40 offers so much that of the big three, it covers the most ground and is, I think, to most versatile of them followed by the .45 (since you can have good performance from the ACP sized .45 Super, but that’s another story).
Josh, your post is right on the mark. Recoil in a full size handgun is negligable in a 9mm, .40, or a .45. I shoot all of them and .357 Sig as well. Yes, handguns recoil, yes you have to hold onto them perhaps tighter than you think, you have to practice, both with one hand, two hands, weak hand and strong hand. I have fun with all of them. What I do like about the .40 is that it makes nice big holes in my splatter targets that are easy to see past ten yards, just like the .45. I also like .40 as it is REALLY cheap to shoot compared to .45 and .357 Sig. .357 Sig is so accurate, so flat shooting it feels like the perfect round for me, but why choose one flavor when you can eat all of them? In reality .40 is not a compromise at all, but a really cool alternative that offers a lot of capability, a lot of capacity and some pretty cool power in a reliable round. My P226 has never failed to feed FMJ or JHP of any .40 round ever. My homedefense gun is an AR-15, I feel much better about .223 or 5.56 fragmenting when it hits sheetrock than any of my pistols. For carry, do what feels good for you, the balistics do not matter if you cannot reliablbly make good hits with your favorite flavor. I am comfortable with 9, 10, 12, or 19 rounds of any modern 9, .40, .45, .357 Sig, if I need more then I can pull my backup or reload… :-).
Guys , bottom line is 10mm, covers all the bases, from low loads to hot loads… there is nothing that all the other calibers do, that a ten can already do… with advancements in metalurgy and polymers.. there is no reason gun companies can’t design a smaller framed 10mm pistol: with 15 or more capacity… they won’t because nobody would buy anything else.. other calibers…. its all about market selection and profits! the 10mm nullifies all other calibers, thus reducing their market strategy to make you buy several pistols in other calibers instead of one caliber ( 10mm) THAT DOES IT ALL AND IS FOR HUNTING ! THERE IS A PROVEN FACT THAT MOST COMPANIES DON’T WANT THE 10MM TO RESURGE…. THINK ABOUT IT.. 10MM PUSHES LIKE A 45 ACP.. SHOOTS FLATTER THAN OTHER CARTRIDGES, HAS THE SAME CAPACITY AS 40 S&W.. AND PENETRATES BETTER THAN .357MAG.. SPEND TIME WITHE 10MM IN MULTIPLE PLATFORMS LIKE I HAVE, AND I GUARANTEE YOU WILL CHANGE CALIBERS… OR HAVE YOU HAD TO MUCH KOOL-AIDE FROM THE GUN PUSHERS AND AMMO COMPANIES! DOESNT TAKE ANY MORE POWDER OR BRASS, LEAD ETC.. TO MAKE 10MM VS 45ACP…. SO WHY IS SO HARD TO FIND SOMETIMES… IT’S BECAUSE YOU GUYS KEEP BUYING INFERIOR CARTRIDGES AND THEN ARGUING ABOUT WHICH IS BETTER…. WHEN THE BEST CARTRIDGE 10MM HAS BEEN FOR QUITE AWHILE NOW.. DON’T THINK SO ASK TED NUGENT, KEITH WARREN,..
fast forward to 2016 and the 40s&w is falling out of favor faster than lightning. guys on texas gun trader just cant get rid of thier 40s and i see some pretty big price drops and they still dont sell. there is no logical reason with terminal ballastic advancments on both the 9mm and 45acp side to own a 40 anymore. im not a big james Yeager fan, but hes right in saying pick either a 9mm or 45. ive been done with the 40 for a while
Well I know that this is an old thread, but cant resist. `~The 40 S&W is so highly used by LEO’s and government users for a reason, and a good one. Remember that the 40S&W was made backwards. The case is thick, just cut down from the 10mm. The stiff case is where the pressure comes from. It is a hand load caliber if I ever saw one. Those of us who play around with loads can attest to its overwelming favor over a 9 or 45. Speed. Ok how about 1279 fps with a 165 grain boolit. Do the math. Thats almost 600 ft lbs of energy. That load penetrates with a fmj. I have fired Underwood 165 gr ammo and it is so very impressive. Nothing in a 9 comes close. Nothing in a 45 flies so flat and accurate. My hand loads do a tad better. The 9 case is limited. The 45 is too. But you can load hotter with the 40S&W. Not even close with a 9mm or a 45acp. I carry an all steel Kahr K40, and a T40 at times. The extra weight tames the recoil. If you must have light, go 9. If you want 600 ft lbs of energy, go 40 S&W. Also. Did you know that the 40 S&W has much lower DB report than a 9 or 45 ? The ammo is always easy to get. But it is so easy to hand load. My favorite combat/range gun is my STI SS 5.0 1911, with a 5.5 inch barrel in 40 S&W. I hit anything I shoot at with it. I have cornoed 165 gr loads at over 1300 fps average. Who needs a 10mm.