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Does this security guard’s action constitute an imminent threat of grievous bodily harm or death? (Make the jump for the full video.) If not, what does?

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  1. A little short on context to say if a DGU is the proper response. Also why is a security guard in the middle of a street?

    • Gated community? The bay area is lousy with them. Private security is a large business here.

      • You can’t pull a gun on someone unless they pose an imminent threat right? And cops are as or more restricted depending on the rules of their jurisdiction. Right?

        Since there was no arrest or even a citation or backup called, I am going to assume that the camera man was no threat to anyone.

        If a plain clothes cop pulls a gun on me over a non arrest able violation… Well, I’ll let you guys guess whether I would fear for my life and SERIOUSLY consider using appropriate force to defend myself or not.

        • You can’t *shoot* someone unless they pose an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm, however, there is no such national standard for drawing a gun and pointing it at someone. States treat ‘brandishing’ differently. If you point a gun at someone in your property after dark in a state like NY, NJ, etc you’re in a different world than in a state like Nevada.

        • The rules for brandishing do vary from state to state. My point remains. If this camera man hasn’t done anything worth an arrest or even a citation, has he done something worth having his life threatened with a gun?!?

          The answer is extremely obvious. Say someone pulls a gun on you, you haven’t done anything worthy of even a ticket, guy claims he’s a cop, but offers no proof, lists no crimes, does not produce a warrant, a partner, handcuffs, or even a badge. You wouldn’t feel threatened?! You wouldn’t feel like you had the right to defend yourself?!

          This fat sac should be fired and become a prohibited person. And then, he should count himself lucky he didn’t attack (yes, I count what I saw as an attack) someone who was armed with a gun instead of a camera.

          I rarely make statements like this. If he’d come after me like that, one of us would have died. Period, full stop. I’d have defended my life successfully, or I’d have failed

        • The alternative is to trust my life completely to that fat psycho who pulled a gun on me for something not even worth a ticket

        • Hannibal,

          My understanding is:
          (1) The only situation where you are legally justified to use deadly force is when an attacker presents a credible, imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm.
          (2) Purposely, aggressively pointing a firearm at someone at close range and yelling at them IS APPLYING DEADLY FORCE.

          Therefore, when the security guard pointed his firearm at and yelled at the bystander, the security guard was applying deadly force. And the security guard would only be justified to do that if the bystander had presented a credible, imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm … which he apparently did not do.

          This means, as far as we can tell from the information that we have, that the security guard was therefore the attacker, the guard was applying deadly force, the guard therefore presented a credible, imminent threat of death or grievous bodily harm, and the bystander would therefore have been justified to use any force necessary — up to and including deadly force — to defend himself.

          Important note: brandishing a firearm has a specific legal meaning in any given jurisdiction. I would be stunned if any jurisdiction allowed someone to purposely point a firearm at another person with obvious aggressive intent and simply call it brandishing. Rather, I would expect all jurisdictions to call that something along the lines of assault with a deadly weapon … a much more serious felony than brandishing. I expect brandishing to refer to displaying a firearm in a threatening manner or waving it about in a threatening manner without actually pointing it at someone purposely and aggressively.

          Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. The above is not legal advise.

        • “Purposely, aggressively pointing a firearm at someone at close range and yelling at them IS APPLYING DEADLY FORCE.”— I disagree. This is not APPLYING deadly force, because the deadly force was not actually applied. Pulling the trigger would have applied the deadly force. This is definitely a THREAT of deadly force, though.

        • I agree. Security guards and Police have no more right to BRANDISH weapons threateningly than anyone else does.
          Now since we do not know the whole story here I cannot say more about whether or not the security guard was out of line or just doing his job.
          Since I know I will never put myself into the situation that this would ever happen I cannot say one way or another.
          I live in a good neighborhood and have had 10 thefts of my property in 23 years. The Police are useless unless you can tell them who did the crime. Ever after I provided them with the perpetrator in 2 instances nothing came of it.
          I am the only property owner in this HOA community who is allowed to have no trespassing signs. Only because I raised hell and placed responsibility on the HOA if my dog eats the next criminal. I have had no thefts in the 6 years since those signs went up.
          Also having the signs up expended my rights regarding Castle Law to the boundaries of my property. It seems privacy fences alone do not but privacy fences with no trespassing signs do.

        • How do you know there was no arrest? How do you know there was not police response? The video starts and stops in the middle of the situation.

    • You are correct… more info is needed. like…

      If this were a gated community where the sidewalks, roads, and other common areas are property of the HOA, you have a different problem than if they are public right-of-ways/easements.

      That is, if the security guard is in the employ of the HOA as a representative of the HOA. Then he is representing the land owner, and the question becomes different.

      Can a land owner or his/her representative pull a firearm on an unknown person carrying a camera on the land owners property?

      The question also changes if the camera person had a firearm…. if the person being managed at the beginning had a firearm… if those people were or were not residents? What state is this in? And so on.

      Nice training video… 😉

    • Shoot the fat security guy who drew on you, don’t do CPR, just call 911, let the paramedics do it if they go there in time.

      The clip is short but pointing a gun at someone like that is some big time BS and fatty deserves to go in cuffs for armed assault.

      • @DDay
        Isn’t verbally ridiculing him for being an obese tub of lard enough? I could have gone a long way antagonizing that overweight fat slob even with his gun pointed at me.

      • So, you’re caught breaking into someone’s house (while carrying a baseball bat because you’re going to beat him to death for fucking your daughter) and your answer is to shoot the guy stopping you? You can’t claim self-defense when you’re in the commission of a crime. Period.

        Since I know you’re going to ask how I know that was what was going on in the video, I’ll just answer that before you ask. I don’t. Just like you don’t know that wasn’t exactly what was happening.

        The video doesn’t show enough to make an educated determination as to who was right and who was wrong. The fact that one of the suspects had a baseball bat leads me to believe that the security guards have a decent foundation for the possibility that they were in the right. No guarantees though.

    • My question exactly. Sorry, I’ve seen waayy too many vids of “dindu nuffins’ where they very much “did something” to provoke whatever response they got and then conveniently started filming. Not to mention witnessing dozens of instances IRL from shoplifting, to armed robbery, etc. No matter how red-handed they are caught, no matter how many videos, no matter how many witnesses, they “dindu nuffin”. Couple of cops I know in the bad part of STL, have an ongoing bet as to what the first words they here will be when they cuff a suspect, they’re both black so there is some minor variance, But you already know the frontrunner…

      Interestingly, my black friends have never had trouble with random white security guards pulling guns on them. Hmmmm…

      • This cop never calls for backup, never makes an arrest, never even issues a citation. Now clearly I don’t know the cameraman or what he did to irritate Mr Tubs there. But whatever it was, wasn’t even worth a ticket, it damn well wasn’t worth a drawn gun. I’m happy that your black friends have never had an incident like this one. Fingers crossed they never meet this fat sac. If they do, try not to blame your friends

        • This “cop” doesn’t make any arrests or issue any citations because he’s not a cop. He’s a private security guard.

        • I’ve read mixed reports about that. Someone else in this thread called him a plainclothes cop and had links. Doesn’t matter though. A real cop should have arrested someone worth drawing on. A rent a cop should have called the real cops to deal with a perp worth drawing on

        • There is apparently some dispute as to his status, I care not about this story enough to look it up. My point still stands – what led up to Stay Puft drawing his piece?

          What did our fine young men on their way to promising careers in brain surgery do, exactly? Unless one is batsh1t psycho,. nobody draws for no reason, so what was the reason? If there was none, the video should surely show it, right? Future Achievers are well known for having their phones going at the first sign of being able to claim victimhood status, or sue whitey for anything, so where’s the rest of the footage?

          As to why one of them isn’t ticketed or cuffed, we have no idea what actually leading up to this snippet, other than guaranteed one or both did something stupid and/or illegal. Ferguson effect, one of them may have just strong-armed an old lady for all we know, and like Mike Brown, thought they could just walk away, and guard, fearful of being Zimmerman’ed, let them go.

          In a world of easy video footage to be manipulated, there are a whole lot of aspiring Worldstarhiphop stars, looking for ‘fame’.

    • Bingo. Does our videographer have a legal right or legitimate business at his current location? Does our videomaster closely match the description of a burglary / robbery suspect that was just reported? Is the minimally trained security guard losing control of his faculties?

      With that said, I’ve arrested or done liability paperwork on pretty much everyone I’ve drawn guns on in my current line of work. The most common cause for us to draw guns on non-felons occurs when people report their car stolen, find it, drive it, and forget to tell police that it needs to be taken out of the stolen vehicle system.

      • If I remember general law correctly, everyone has a right to be where they are unless they are legally restricted, prohibited or informed otherwise. Raggedy guy walking on a public sidewalk (if the sidewalk and street are public) in or near a gated community needs to have no “legitimate business” being there.

    • Yes. I want to know what was going on with that other security guard who was rousting a guy with a baseball bat.

  2. Depends a lot on the state. A lot of states give security guards on private property near police level powers.

    We don’t know anything before the video. Were the guards reacting to a crime or suspicion of a crime or were they just being ass hats.

    As for shooting him? Walk fast and he’ll keel over trying to keep up with you.

    • If Mr Tubbs there was reacting to a crime worthy of a drawn gun, it should have lead to an arrest. Fatty Mc Threaten there didn’t even issue a citation

      • He might have been responding to one of those swatting type calls from a citizen. Got worked up by a “man with a gun” call by the first reporter. Found out the 911 call was bogus and stood down.

        We really don’t know. All we have is a less than 1 minute video.

  3. The real crime here is that the person recording didn’t rotate the camera 90 degrees.

    • Cliff notes: Thugs armed with baseball bats in a neighborhood where they do not live looking to use said baseball bats as weapons against other people.

      • unless they were using them against fatty, he should have stayed out of it and called 911. If he involved himself where it didn’t belong, he deserves an arrest.

      • Sounds like a whole lot of assumptions on both your part and the gun brandishing Rolo-cop here.

  4. Agree that lack of context makes it difficult to answer the question, but nothing undermines a claim that you felt your life was in danger like recording yourself arguing with someone in the middle of the street.

  5. Yep. Needs context. Taken at face value, assuming I’m not somewhere I’m legally barred from being, and assuming I’m not up to no good, his gun comes out = my gun comes out. But I’d damn sure be dialing 911 with my other hand instead of recording.

      • Drawing on a drawn gun IS a great way to get shot. Trusting your life to a cop who points a gun at you for something not even worth a ticket is also a great way to get shot.

        • You assume, based on a very short video, that because no arrest or ticket there was no reason to have gun in hand.

        • I can only make assumptions based on what I see. If I get contradictory information, I am happy to revise my opinion. What I see is a plainclothes man waving his gun everywhere while following and shouting at someone.

          Additional information not shown, but typed indicates he was responding to a call about some people with bats.

          My assessment still stands at least in my mind. The cameraman was either an imminent threat to Tubbs or someone in the community or he wasn’t.

          If he was a threat, that cop is garbage for not arresting him. If he wasn’t a threat (which I think is the case) then Tubbs had zero reason to point a gun at him. It’s not like the gun was at the low ready against a perp with a bat. It was being waved at a cameraman trying to walk away

        • “Trusting your life to a cop who points a gun at you for something not even worth a ticket is also a great way to get shot.”

          But making a sudden move to draw your own gun gets a free pass from the rattled security guy with a gun pointed at you (and all around)?

      • Check my phrasing. I didn’t say I’d draw after he had gun in hand, I said I’d draw when he does. As soon as I see that draw stroke, I’m drawing too. When someone’s bahaving belligerently, then reaches for his hip, he’s likely going for a weapon. I don’t need to see what he decides to draw to know he’s escalating things.

    • The thing I got out of this video is that the recording denizen has 1) had pleanty of guns pointed at him based on his reactions, 2) had pleanty of dealings with these security guards knowing they wouldn’t shoot, & 3) been arrested enough times to know that he didn’t do anything worth getting arrested over.

  6. Not really enough there to know what the whole situation is but yes, someone pointing a gun at me is definitely an imminent threat to my life and I possibly would have shot him, but again, I don’t know the whole situation.

  7. Would I? Uh, short answer is he would have seen rapid ventilation at the most appropriate opportunity. Full stop.

    ME. I. The person typing this.

    I have ZERO context or meat to the video in question. I have no idea what happened or what lead to Chubber Mr Security drawing and pointing a weapon at me in supposed scenario. However, I’m walking down a street and Mr Security walks up to me making demand, yelling and pointing a weapon at me……..things WILL go from zero to 100 real fast and NOT in Chubbsters favor.

  8. I thought word was this guy was a cop? At least that was the story when this video first appeared. That the cops had gotten a report of a street fight and decided to stop these two who had a ball bat with them.

    What ever he is, he had no business even touching his weapon, much less pulling it and chasing a citizen down the street.

  9. I know that if some jerk like that came at me like that, he’d get perforated. Then again, I know that I wouldn’t have caused a situation where it would be questionable. I am not sure on the back story of this situation.

  10. As stated, there is a serious lack of information leading up to the point of the video.

    Is this an area where the security guard has authority to act? Is it posted? Good example might be the residential area of a military installation. Is the video camera operator authorized to be in the area? More and more communities are banding together to report suspect situations to the authorities in order to protect the community at large from miscreants with bad intentions. Things like stealing packages and mail, as well as break-ins and such are becoming more commonplace in good neighborhoods which once were crime free.

    If the guard as the authority, then I would suggest compliance because anything else might be considered forceful resistance and bring about harsher treatment. You can always consider a lawsuit later.

  11. Who gave paul blart a gun?

    A lot of those mall and rent-a-cops seem like theyre wanna be cops with a napoleon complex

    • These are the critical pieces of information that provide context. The guy who pulled the gun is an on-duty cop.
      From reading the stories, it seems a neighbor saw some black men with baseball bats and called the cops about a bunch of black people with baseball bats having a fight. Seems to have been some information about the men being armed, also.

      The police show up assuming the neighbor who gave them the information is honest and not a racist. Their reaction can be understood – if not justified – in that context. Based on the information in the story, though, it’s the person calling the police who should have been arrested.

      One thing for certain. The guy doesn’t know how to hold a gun.

      • Nah….not buying it. According to that UK report, the officers showed up expecting to find men fighting with bats, according to the dispatcher. So this officer engages the guy filming, but never apprehends him, never searches him, and eventually just gives up the walking-paced pursuit.

        Seriously? Fighting with bats is aggravated assault, because of the deadly weapon involved. That’s a second degree felony in Texas, and I’d expect it’s more than just frowned upon in NY.

        No way this cop, if he really believed that’s what was going on, would just give up trying to command the the guy filming. He would call in reinforcements to make tge arrest and you know it. That he didn’t puts the lie to all of his actions. You can’t justify some of his actions based on his supposed information, then turn around and ignore his non-action in light of the same supposed information.

        • You are right, up to a point. Consider that the cop took a look around him, and despite his big mouth [which he is trained to use in these situations], realized that the original report was a fraud. At which time he decided to cut his loses.

          Which actually makes his ultimate resolution of the situation quite intelligent. Instead of being a moron, it seems he was really cool-headed and didn’t allow the situation to escalate just to appease his arrogance.

          BTW, he wasn’t the only cop out there at the time, so there were reinforcements on scene.

  12. I would like a little bit of context here…

    With that said, I don’t see any reason that a “security guard” should be able to whip out a pistol in the middle of the street and order someone to the ground. I’d have probably waited for an opportunity to draw and shoot him. From the little info I have, that guard is a piece of crap.

    • My sole interaction with this story is the video posted at the top of this page.

      Cop (eventually) realizes that the videographer is posing no threat, and reholsters his gun and modifies his language to be a bit less threatening. Clearly, he made a criminally stupid decision at the outset of that encounter and, obviously, could have realized that he was actually being filmed and wanted to protect himself from the results of that encounter, but based on the video alone, I can’t conclude that he’s a piece of crap. Stupid? Yes. Arrogant and obnoxious? Yes. If he is a cop, he should certainly lose his badge.

      But piece of crap? Not necessarily- a piece of crap would redouble his demands and attempt to further intimidate the videographer into submission, rather than backing off.

    • He whipped out his pistol because these guys were armed with baseball bats. Would you go bare-fisted against a guy armed with a baseball bat?

      • If I were a cop breaking up a baseball bat fight, I’d draw first. But then, I’d make arrests and write citations. This fat sac waved his gun everywhere and then did nothing legal

  13. Imminance is there, proportionality is there. The clip doesn’t address innocence. Also, IMO it generally isn’t a good idea to draw on someone 5′ away that already has you at gunpoint without some sort of distraction. You are almost guaranteed to escalate into getting shot.

    • The title addresses innocence, and it doesn’t hurt anything to take it at face value. We’re innocent until proven guilty, all parties involved have imperfect knowledge, etc. It doesn’t really affect the situation.

      The other factor is that there’s another guy 5′ away who is almost certainly also carrying a gun. He hadn’t drawn at the point of the video, but you better believe that bad things are going to happen if you pop his partner and he hasn’t yet realized that his partner was being an idiot.

    • It is puzzling so many here would attempt to draw on a hyped-up security whose gun is pointed at them. I did see that the security guy did have his finger outside the trigger guard. Maybe a person could draw and fire before the security guy could pull the trigger.

  14. It looks like someone appears to be in handcuffs.

    It could be anything.

    I prefer to abstain from making a statement, which could come back to haunt me later.

  15. “Why would they stay in an area in which they where clearly unwelcome?”, would be my first question. Security guards aren’t ninjas they must have known security was there, and they weren’t supposed to be there. I think those two trespassers were a couple of troublemaking punks that got what they deserved. No I would not draw on a lawfully armed security guard while trespassing.

      • They were in that gated community armed with baseball bats looking to bludgeon somebody with them. They are not innocent little angels simply wandering through a random neighborhood.

        • Then they should have been arrested. Option 1, they didn’t do anything even worth a ticket and that fat sac of a cop pulled his gun anyway. Option 2, these guys posed imminent threat to the community and that fat sac of a cop waved his gun everywhere and then let a threat to the community just walk away. You pick

    • Beginning of that clip looked to me as though 2 guys were climbing over a fence, from the inside to the outside. I did not see a baseball bat.

  16. As others have noted: context.

    However, that guy’s “natural body armor” is an argument for a big bore pistol or even an elephant gun. On the plus side, he ain’t gonna catch you if you run away.

  17. I would have yelled “For the 10th time, NO, YOU CANNOT SIT ON MY LAP.”

    Stops guys dead in their tracks. Also fun in non-threatening situations.

  18. Yes I would have shot the 2 with the guns, in self defense. You pull on me you had better shoot first. In this situation I don’t care who you are.

  19. NOTICE!
    The current video link takes you to shootingin the woods; nothing related to this posting.

  20. NOTICE!

    Clicking on the image, or copying the link-location –does not– take you to any video related to this posting. Have tried this in two separate browsers = same ill result.

  21. Even out of context, the security guard is harassing someone who is in the middle of the street and a threat to no one. Hope the guy who made the video takes it straight to the cops so they can arrest the guard and charge him with assault so he can never have a gun to intimidate someone. With that video online, if Black Lives Matters finds the security guard and beats him up, I doubt any decent cop would even take a report

    • You’re saying the guys behind the camera, who were armed with baseball bats and looking to use them as bludgeons, were a threat to nobody? I do not understand.

      • You’re able to know their intent from somewhere? If these guys were such an obvious threat and trying to beat someone, why no detainment or citation?!

  22. Context is everything, but if I really fit the “dindunuffin” bill, I turn and see a gun coming my way, drawn as such? That is an imminent threat that will be dealt with in an imminent fashion. In that fatbodies case, however, I think it’d just be easier to walk him into a heart attack instead…

  23. Depends on the actions of the people recording the video. Were they committing a felony? Did they just commit a felony? Context matters. That said and with a very few exceptions, the security guard should not be pointing guns at people. The people he is pointing guns at certainly don’t appear to be a threat of grievous bodily harm or death to him.

    • No arrest or citation made. Either that fat sac drew his gun over something not worth a ticket, or he let a criminal walk. I can’t speak for the cameraman, but the cop shouldn’t have a job. I’d question whether he should be made a prohibited person

  24. The way that guard was waving the gun around it is a minor miracle that three houses a car and a bystander weren’t all shot.

    Rule #3 (depending on who’s counting and how many are on their list): Never point (or wave) the gun at something you aren’t prepared to destroy.

    • I was thinking the same thing. That guard has no business having a firearm because he obvious has no clue on safety or how to use it. He probably would have missed his intended target and shot some innocent bystander.

  25. Ummm…fat boy seems like he’s an amped up Barney Fife. An idiot as it were. Would I plug him? I have never had a cop/security dork point a piece at me so I cant say for sure…

  26. Yes,he would have had a hard time getting past my .45 and yes that would be my response.

  27. Security guard, not law enforcement, out on the street and sidewalk in what appears to be a regular neighborhood. His actions could legitimately result in firing on him, but I think the kid did exactly the right thing, walking away. He should also call the police to report that some pudgy rent-a-cop pulled a gun on him and other people on the street, and hopefully get the license plate number of the car that schmuck came out of.

    That said, it would be nice to know what all preceded the video. However, since the security guard turned his back on the kid he was hassling in the beginning of the video and walked away from him, I can’t imagine that he was that much of a threat.

  28. Not exactly the same thing and I was unarmed (it was Mexico), but I did have a fellow, out of the blue, step out of his house and point a rifle at my head. He babbled angrily and fast enough that I didn’t understand what he was saying. I kept on walking and eventually made it out of the line of fire. All I could think of was the distance to cover. I felt half way out of my body as I moved. Then I went into a store and drank a 40oz in about one pull. I left via a different route and didn’t see him again. I never learned what it was about. No, I didn’t call the police – it was small village Mexico where the police could have been his family members.

  29. Assuming this guy and his buddy were potentially (and I say this with no SJW tags at all) walking while black, it’s hard to say from the little context in the video. Situation dictates the tactics, right?

    If buddy and I are walking and minding our own business, and it’s private security or such rushing up with guns drawn, there are a few options of what my actions could be.

    1) I submit to commands, find out why I have a gun in my face, and after realizing that I’ve done nothing wrong, I own that security company by the end of the week.
    2) Security pulls up hard and fast (HA) and approaches with a gun drawn, it’s possible he would’ve been drawn on as well. Gun out beats gun drawn every time though.
    3) I follow similar suit as the camera man and tell him to get f***ed and I leave. Then, (assuming I have similar video evidence) I take option one’s route, and own the company by the end of the week.

    • Like this crazy event, mall cop pulls service weapon on drive for hitting traffic cone.
      What we later learn mall cop did not have permit to carry firearm or security guard credentials,
      and his supervisor did not either. Big $$$$ to settle this out of court.

  30. So, based on the dailymail article (I like how they capitalize “GUN!!!!1!” in there) it was a plainclothes officer responding to a report of males with bats fighting. And he comes across this guy with a bat. I just want to draw attention to this exchange:

    “The cousin asks: ‘Why you pointing your gun at me?’ as the officer yells: ‘Get the f*** on the ground!’
    ‘I didn’t do nothing wrong!’ he tells the officer.”

    See, this here is the problem. Even if the officer is WRONG, and these guys just happened to be coming back from batting practice in the same location a fight with bats just happened (a conclusion I am not willing to reach with confidence), it is perfectly reasonable from the cop’s perspective to detain them for a suspected felony assault. But instead of complying when a cop points a gun at them, they record and basically dare him to do something… while possessing the bat, potentially a deadly weapon, that the cop reasonably (if maybe incorrectly) believes was just used in said assault.

    “‘Don’t touch me,’ the filmer says. ‘I ain’t getting on the ground. I didn’t do nothing wrong.”
    “…he yells to Simmons, ‘Just keep walking! They can’t do that to you!'”

    This is how you get shot. Maybe it wouldn’t be a good shoot! But this is how you get shot. What ever happened to all the black mothers who supposedly have to give their kids “the talk”? Why doesn’t “the talk” include telling them that when a cop points a gun at you and tells you to get down, you get your ass down so those nasty racist PO-lice don’t get a chance to shoot you?

    • I am a 50 year old white man and I will be damned if I ever get on the ground or my knees for any man. If you have something to say to me do it face to face. I am not a serf to follow orders.

        • And it isn’t 1250, I am not a serf to tug my forelock and bow to the King’s men. No one has any authority to give me any kind of order. I will not bow to any government employee.

      • Cool bro. Don’t plan on winning a lawsuit after you get your ass kicked or shot, though. That’s the point; you can know you’re innocent, but since not everyone around you is psychic, you might look guilty as hell.

        If you happen to be match the description of an armed bank robber two blocks over you may be right that you’re innocent, but the cops are right to stop you.

        • Cool, they can stop me, but that is it. I will not bow or kneel for any government employee. My safety is more important than their’s. If they want to talk, they can do it face to face, remembering that they are the servants.

    • Piss on whether the kids were black or white, you haven’t demonstrated that made any difference. If all your discussions have to be about race, you are a racist. If this turkey was actually a cop, he should be fired, first because he is too fat, and second because no one even claimed there was any reason for immediate action, he should have watched and waited for UNIFORMED backup. A man in street clothing pointing a gun at me does not shout “cop”, it shouts “killer”. And I am white and 70, but I had “the talk” when I was a kid, have passed it to both of my white sons, and contending that is any sort of a black thing is stupid.

      • Sorry, it is a race thing. I see it every day. There is a mentality of bravado in young black men to challenge the police that simply doesn’t exist in young white men. It is like how kids in earlier days played ‘chicken’.

        Feel free to call me a racist. I’ll call you ignorant in response for talking about something you haven’t seen enough.

  31. I’m going to echo some of the others. Context matters. “Would you shoot this guy?” Yes, but that’s because I wouldn’t have done something to provoke that approach. For a security guard, who doesn’t have qualified immunity like cops do, to behave that way, something had to have led up to it.

  32. Basically, yeah, the fat old fart crossed the line into lethal threat territory and assuming he made it back into the proverbial social contract he’s lucky. Like Trayvon Martin, you know, right or wrong he was outside the protection of society.

  33. knowing me and how I don’t mess with other people’s things,
    Fatboy would be on the wrong side of the grass.
    you pull a gun on me you better mean it.
    I don’t know what those guys did or didn’t do, not my concern.

    • the guy doesn’t seem to have had much gun training, or training in the law, but if you draw on him, your name better be Bob Munden, or you’re highly likely to be shot probably multiple times

      • Watching him handle that gun, I would bet money (possibly not my life) he could empty that mag at 10 yards and never touch me, especially after he saw me drawing.

  34. He’s got the heater out already so you are at a disadvantage. The smart thing to do if GTFO of there and retreat behind cover as best you can. If plumpster is still advancing you might be able to draw and see if he stops.
    At that point if he raises that gun with you at the ready and it’s going to get noisy.

  35. The way this guy moves and carries while with his weapon out makes it fairly easy to take it away from him.

    I can’t believe [ok I can] that the guy literally said, “Dindu”

  36. Did nobody notice at the beginning of the video that one of the guards had a baseball bat that he took from one of the dudes? What were these kind fellas doing with a baseball bat but no gloves or baseballs in a neighborhood where they do not live? Maybe that’s why one of these security guards had a firearm drawn. I’ve seen too many videos from ghetto folk that magically cut out the important bits which reveal what really happened prior to what is seen in the video.

  37. Shooting him would bring all sort of trouble my way. I am pretty confident that I could keep him at range and he’d have a snowballs chance of hitting me, even if he did shoot.

  38. I don’t know, but something potentially violent should be done to the guy taking video in portrait mode.

  39. I saw the video but haven’t read all the posts in the thread. What is the context and background here? Why was the guy holding a gun in his hand while walking towards the guy taking the video?

    • He was a police officer confronting two men who had bats in the area where a large fight between guys armed with bats juts occurred.

      If the point of the article was to have people make a decision and then find out how dumb it would be out of context, well, good job.

  40. My guess: some black kids took a shortcut through a neighborhood. White hyperventilating racist homeowner calls the police and lies/exaggerates the story hoping to accelerate the response or even provoke a serious encounter. Racist cops show up, realize there’s nothing going on, but try to exploit the call, anyway, just to harrass these guys.

  41. I would definitely consider than an imminent, credible, deadly threat to the cameraman, at least insofar as what was shown in the video. Pointing a gun at someone is, by very definition, exactly that. The four rules, essentially, say as much: never point a gun at anything you’re not willing to destroy. If he proves he’s willing to destroy you, then obviously that is a threat.
    I’d say that security guard is lucky that he wasn’t dealing with any real threat.

  42. He is an idiot. I’d kick him from his post if he were ome of my guards. In North Carolina guards, armed or otherwise, can not detain people. We can’t even touch them legally. Observe and report. Thats the job. From my experiences in private security the bar is set pretty low for personnel.

  43. If you point a gun at me and don’t shoot me. I will kill you as fast as possible with extreme prejudice. Color,race,or sexual orientation not withstanding. My life before yours PERIOD!!!

  44. LOL! There sure are a lot of heroes here! I especially love the “if an undercover plainclothes officer pulls a gun and tries to arrest me for an un-arrestable offense (I’ll shoot him).” First, he’ll be announcing that he’s a cop – you gonna resist? If you do, you’ll be dead or dying as soon as you reach for your gun. Many of the answers given here are pure fodder for the anti’s to use against us. Frightening. This is why I’ve always been adamant about mandatory training – particularly on the law. Too many clueless yahoos. Could you shoot? I suppose so. Would you be JUSTIFIED? Hard to say.

    As for this video there’s not enough known as to what’s going on. Based strictly on the video, if you reach for a gun this security guard is likely to shoot you first HOWEVER, he’s becomes pretty careless. There are WAY TOO MANY variables here to say either (guard or cameraman) would be justified in shooting. Anyone who says they would shoot the guard based solely on this video shouldn’t be carrying a gun. Even if you won in criminal court (after spending $100,000 on a lawyer, what happens when the family comes after you civilly? Another $100,000 in legal fees and if you lose, you will lose everything.

  45. Not a hero russ h. Just someone who has had a gun pointed at them for real far to many times. Left many bodies of better men than you while IN COUNTRY in S.E.A.

    • You think you’re the only one who’s been in combat? Taken lives? You have no clue who I am and what I’ve done. I’ve been a state trooper in AZ for over 22 yrs and in the Army and Army Reserve for over 38 yrs. You make assumptions on which you you nothing about. I stand behind my statement.

      • ” This is why I’ve always been adamant about mandatory training – particularly on the law.”
        I completely agree, however it has been in my experience both as a cop (Virginia Beach) and a civilian and as military (22 years), most police officers have little clue and mainly assumptions regarding the law.

        I have been shot at and hit, died 3 times and lived and a confirmed kill count of 63. Thank you for your service.

        Not too sure what S.E.A. means though. Been at sea though 17 years. Combat 5 years total 22 years in the military. I would do it all again.

        • I ran or worked in the AZ DPS CCW Unit from 2002 till about 2005. I helped develop the training to include the legal portion – point being, if you’re going to carry you better know the law. Sadly, a lot of instructors don’t understand the law so they don’t teach it properly. We made it as easy as possible but it is still tough – we tried to focus on justification and where you could carry. Now, no training whatsoever is required, which I think is a mistake. Fortunately, a lot of people still get it.

          I can’t speak for your agency but in AZ you are required to know and understand the law if you’re going to be a cop. There are certain nuances you learn along the way as well as discretion (when and when not to apply the law). Just because they’re speeding doesn’t mean you have to write them a ticket.

          I think S.E.A. means southeast asia.

          • I completely agree about training and what should be known. However 98% of American police officers do not know a simple thing like Drivers licenses are not required by law. Unless they are in the commission of a business. Kind of on the same level as taxes are voluntary and there are no laws requiring the paying of them.

  46. No, I wouldn’t shoot the security guard simply because he’s not worth the trouble that would come afterward. I would however, take the firearm away from him (his methods make that an easy task) and call the police to press charges of assault with a deadly weapon. Hopefully the fecal matter on the weapon wouldn’t hinder the prosecution team.

  47. This video is misleading, Guard or Cop? The one with the suspect on the ground is holding what looks like a baseball bat, do we know if the man on the ground was threatening the guard/officer? Do we know that the man on the ground had assaulted someone? No not from the video. The camera man is approaching the former, fat cop/guard #2 is seen walking toward camera man. Note fatty #2 has radio or cell in off hand, calling PD. Missed that?
    With the number of assaults on PD and Private Security by BLM and liberal douchebag groups, Fatty #2 is being cautious. As far as chasing the camera man, are you REAL, Fatty #1 & #2 probable couldn’t run is Duncan Doughnuts was giving away free donuts.

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