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We’re friends with a lot of people who, just like us, test new firearms. And the view among those who we trust and know to be credible is that Remington’s new R51 has been a disaster. What we’re hearing now from those with knowledge of the situation is that buyers who have returned their R51s to Remington for repair, hoping that Big Green can fix them aren’t getting much satisfaction. After repeated calls to Remington asking when their guns will be repaired, Remington has reportedly stated that there currently is no time frame because. . .

They haven’t managed to engineer a fix yet.

Here’s one anecdotal example from the Remington forum:

When I first contacted them they indicated an 8 day turnaround time. After they had had my gun for 10 days I contacted them again, and was told that the turnaround time is 2 weeks from the time they received the gun. After 15 days I contacted them again and was told that they are waiting on “updated” internal parts before they send any returns back. It would probably be “several” more weeks.

I do not care for being an unpaid part of the research, development, and testing department for anyone.

Big Green is reeling from the tens of millions of dollars they’re having to spend on the Remington 700 trigger recall. So if they’re aware of an issue with the R51, they sure as heck aren’t likely to admit it publicly. Another costly recall on a brand new gun and yet more money spent fixing engineering issues? You can imagine why Remington Outdoor’s president was recently canned.

If what we’re hearing is true, Big Green has another big problem on its hands.

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96 COMMENTS

    • This is why I don’t buy anything from Microsoft until at least six months after release.

      Now if someone wants to pay me to beta-test? I’m there. Pay me and I’ll test whatever the hell you want me to test and do so happily because it can’t be any worse than what I’m doing for work NOW.

      But this? Screw this noise.

      • What about Google? Do you use facebook? What about Siri? What about iOS?

        All of those release beta products to the public and hundreds of millions use them everyday. Facebook releases beta code daily to test on users. Microsoft puts more testing into releasing a beta product than almost every other company out there.

        • I don’t pay for Google, Facebook etc and damn sure don’t count on them to save my life.

        • @rammerjammer I would not be a free betaTester for hardware period, let alone a device that my life would depend on.

        • @rammerjammer

          What kind of phone do you use? ~70% of the world is using google, apple, or Microsoft. Which means there is a >70% chance you are using one of the those three because you are so technologically inclined as to be commenting on an internet message board. Which means >70% chance you do currently pay to be a beta tester.

        • @justAMan depends how old his phone is. I wouldn’t call someone using Gingerbread to be a beta tester anymore 🙂

        • Either justaman owns an R51 and won’t fess up or he’s just that internet troll who has to argue and be right when there really wasn’t a dispute.

          And for his information, I’m sending this in via telegram because its been sorted out and I refuse to be a beta tester.

      • The R51, from the outside looking in, seems more like it’s in its pre-alpha phase than beta. Beta phases should be mostly stable, with only rare problems and specifically problems your own internal testing group isn’t finding. How anyone at Remington thought the R51 was anywhere past the prototype phase is beyond me. All the problems I’ve seen and read about are some pretty scary problems, not minor problems (which, even then, something you entrust your life to shouldn’t have).
        ( http://blog.codinghorror.com/alpha-beta-and-sometimes-gamma/ it’s software development, but this link does a great job explaining the phases software actually goes through and I think it crosses over to hardware stuff like the R51 quite well)

      • That’s not a very logical analogy. If your computer crashes, it’s an inconvenience. If a gun (or car or other important piece of hardware) fails, it could be life threatening.
        Also, you can’t download a patch for a gun, you can for software.
        But why would you use MS garbage anyway?

  2. This is a huge disappointment for me. I was very interested in that design and we need something new on the market that isn’t another 1911, Glock, AR15 derivative.

    On the other hand, glad I didn’t rush out to buy one. I waited on the TTAG review and was very glad I did.

    • Natural selection works in the same in engineering as it does in biology. There is a reason that we see all variations on a theme in handgun design. After 100 or so we know what works. If you want a traditional automatic get a JMB design. If you want a plastic wunderwaffen get a Glock, Springfield, M&P etc. If you want highly reliable semiauto rifle get one with a Garand bolt system, i.e,, and M-1A or an AK.

        • You won’t see too many derivatives of the Garand system, simply because the machining cost is so high that to make a brand-new Garand (never mind a derivative of same, which would require testing/proving etc), you’d be looking at, oh, $2000 to $3000 for that rifle. Make a new rifle based on the same design to shoot something other than the 7.62/.30-06 cartridge? Tilt towards the $3K range.

          The heat treating specification for the Garand bolt and receiver alone are enough to scare most modern manufactures off the project before they start. There will be no Garand receivers that are “CNC’ed from billet” as they like to say in the AR marketing literature these days. They started with forgings, machined them, then case hardened them, then QC’ed them before assembling them into a rifle.

        • As DG says you will pay dearly for the kind of gun made in the olden days. If I remember correctly from the Law book on the 98k Mauser there were something like 180 separate operations performed on each one.

          As for the Garand derivatives, there is still a genuine demand by the military for the M14 (by all counts an M1 derivative). LRB Firearms has a pretty good reputation regards their M14’s for both the mil and civilization world. Actually an excellent reputation. DG was spot on with the dollars needed for one. This is their link and you will be spending upwards or 3K or more for nice specimen. BUT life will be complete if you make the plunge !!!

          http://www.lrbarms.com/m14riflesstandard.html

        • Ruger Mini 30 is based on the Garand action (as is the Mini 14) and shoots 7.62×39 rounds. It can be had for under $900.00…if you can find one.

  3. Certainly never be a beta tester when it comes to firearms. What a disaster for Remington. The last thing a corporation wants to do is give itself a black eye. That’s ground that’s difficult to recover.

  4. Here’s a fix…take them off the market and return peoples money…piece of junk from the word go…

    • Yep.

      Cut the losses. Stop the bleeding. Just admit it. Refund it and fire the boob heads responsible for it.

    • I am all for that and at what price everyone paid upon sales receipt. It is a piece of junk period. My first range trip was a total disaster after only 2 magazines, worse was an unintentional discharge ( thank fully down range, that’s where safety training pays off ) with my finger nowhere near the trigger. 4 weeks and no word official word from Remington, I have written it off.

  5. Will Obama bail them out like he did GM? If so Remington can claim they are are not liable for products prior to the bailout. At least that what GM is trying to do.

  6. Customers being used as a part of the R&D for new products is barely acceptable practice with software. When the product is both costly and deadly, well… They should not have shipped the product until and unless it was ready for prime time.

    • Barely acceptable with software? It is commonplace with software in the 2010’s. You can have services to support millions of users without some of those being beta testers either knowingly or unknowingly. That is the way software is developed today. Especially since no one wants to pay for software today and would rather it be released free.

      • You work for Microsoft, yes?

        Statements like that are why Windows is pirated so much. Why pay for it when you are treated like crap?

        • I don’t understand how you took what I said to mean you are treated like crap. It is literally impossible to have services that host millions without a smaller subset of those millions testing the live bits for load balancing and capacity at scale.
          It has nothing to do with treating you like crap. I would like to believe readers here, that constantly want the anti gun people to look at facts and not base judgments off of emotions, would be able to look at the facts when it comes to software as well.

  7. WI Patriot has the right idea.

    Remington can either eat another public and expensive recall, or they can buy back the limited number of weapons already in circulation and quietly cancel the model, similar to Caracal and Vektor.

  8. Do we have a new company to take over the motto of ”Because you suck and we hate you” from HK?

  11. There is no solution because the only response should be, destroy the gun and any evidence that they ever existed and issue a Visa pre-paid giftcard so they can go buy a glock, XD, Sig, etc… that they should have bought the first time.

    Glad I bought a savage for my new hunting rifle last year.

  12. Since these are made in NY, can we demand that Gov Cuomo demand Bloomy’s b!tches, ie, Shannon’s bodyguards, carry NY-made products? 🙂

  13. Such a shame, its such a pretty pistol. All the stuff that MAC found wrong with it should have been weeded out in the testing phase.

  14. If this design was so superior and revolutionary when it first came out, we’d all be using pistols with this Pedersen action now. But we don’t. Cuz it’s not.

    This was a bad business move. You don’t repeat a failure by throwing even more money at it and thinking, “Man, this time, people are really going to go ape shit for this thing we couldn’t sell before!” “Just you wait!”

    Now, let’s go back in time to the Remington management conference room and de-retard this business move:

    Product Designer: “Hey Boss, we’re going to get in on this slim 9mm market.”

    Boss: “That’s a swell idea fellas!”

    Product Designer: “Yeah, well, listen Boss, there’s just one wrinkle…”

    Boss: “Oh?…”

    Product Designer: “Well, you see Boss, the boys in engineering think it would be neat to re-release one based on the Pedersen action. They said they’re a little bored working on the same things.”

    Boss: “Hmm. I like the idea Jimmy, but let’s not play with fire here. Tell the boys in engineering to come up with something solid based on a J.M. Browning design. We can’t afford any screw ups.”

    Product Designer: “Good call boss.”

    All: “Lol.”

  15. I’ve been waiting 2 1/2 weeks and counting just to get a box to send back my 700. Fortunately I’ve already replaced the trigger with a better one from Timney, so I won’t be needing that box, but I’m interested in finding out just how long it will take to get it. Too bad, I really like the rifle otherwise, but I’m unlikely to ever buy anything from Remington again.

    • +1000. Had my Timney Trigger installed by a gunsmith late last week. Did not even contact Remington and have no desire to waste any time or energy contacting them about this issue.

      • I did mine myself. The front pin was super tight and I had to file the stock in two places to make it fit, but it wasn’t too bad. Took a little over an hour.

    • I’m just past two weeks myself.

      I agree don’t ever be a Beta tester, but who would have thought that applied to a rifle that Remington has been producing since the 60’s.

      • I just talked to Remington on the phone and they acted like they had no intention of sending me a box/label until I called, even AFTER I registeres online. Five business til I can expect the box. She estimated SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS TURNAROUND ONCE THEY GET IT. C’mon.

    • I’m at 15 days. I got the email saying “thanks for confirming the recall etc” but not a peep as to when my return box will show up or what the turnaround time is expected to be once they actually get it. I bought the gun in February and was just able to get out and zero it three weeks ago. I don’t know if I’m more pissed about the recall or that I’m going to have to take my scope off.

      • I wasn’t about to send them my scope either, but I managed to change out the trigger without removing it. Had a couple of second thoughts about that though because the front pin was in real tight and had to pound on it for a bit. But it all came out good. The Timney will run $130 or so. The adjustment screw is in front where it can only be adjusted with the stock removed, but then it won’t gouge your finger under recoil. The Timney is wider and the break is lighter, so it definitely is an improvement over the stock one. If it wasn’t for the recall I’d still recommend it, but especially considering God only knows when you’ll get your rifle back it’s well worth it.

        Ruger has always been the gold standard for service from what I’ve always heard.

    • My only other experience with a gun recall is my Ruger SR9. In that case, I had the return shipping box in less than a week, a phone call confirming I’d received it and in I’d say 10 days had it back in my possession with a new trigger, a free mag, a hat, some stickers and a sincere-sounding apology. They at least attempted to do some crisis management/smooth ruffled feathers, even if the hat is uuuuuuuuuuugly. So far, Remington has offered limited communication and 40 percent off their absurd online store. Whoopty do.

    • I just talked to Remington on the phone and they acted like they had no intention of sending me a box/label until I called, even AFTER I registeres online. Five business til I can expect the box. She estimated SIX TO EIGHT WEEKS TURNAROUND ONCE THEY GET IT. C’mon.

      • Squeaky wheel gets the grease, I guess. Timney’s looking better and better.

  16. I owned one of the original Remington Model 51 pistols years ago. It was a super little gun and absolutely reliable. I don’t know why they didn’t simply use the original plans or reverse engineer a new clone. Obviously, the modern “improvements” were the undoing of the new version.

    • The original M51 was indeed a very reliable action. People who think that Pedersen didn’t know his stuff probably also don’t know that John Moses Browning thought that Pedersen was the greatest firearm designer of their time. They probably also are utterly ignorant of the writings of Julian Hatcher, et al of that era.

      What probably happened to the R51 from the M51 design is the same thing that happens to many firearms designs: American gun companies want to make it cheap. As cheap as possible. The original M51 had few parts, but the few parts it had needed to be machined correctly, a few of them heat treated correctly, and when you tell a company like Remington that, they start to re-design things in a great haste and fury, trying to cut corners.

      This is, in fact, the reason for the original unsafe trigger design of the Remington 700 – ie, the “Walker Fire Control System.” They didn’t want to machine, heat treat and hone the trigger, so they inserted a little angled piece of hardened metal between the trigger and the sear, the “connector” that was held against the trigger by only the force of the trigger pull coil spring. If they had not been so obsessed with cutting costs (and corners) they would have simply done the machining, heat treatment and honing of the actual trigger itself, the way other companies do.

      But not Remington, noooo. They’ve been about cutting costs to the bone since just after WWII, and maybe even earlier if you talk to fans of the Browning A5 who look at Remington’s production of that design.

      The actual cause of the demise of the M51 (and several other pocket .32’s and .380’s) was the deep recession that followed WWI, which most people here don’t know about either. The 1911 was the new hotness on the block, coupled with newer revolvers coming out from S&W and Colt. The American market wanted “more horsepower” in a carry gun, and the .380’s weren’t going to deliver it. The Colt Hammerless (which in fact had a hammer) 1903 was, in fact, a Browning design, and it didn’t last past the end of WWII. Again, it was because Americans wanted more horsepower in a pistol, not because there was anything wrong with the design.

      The ultimate cause of the sort of stupidity that Remington produces, of course, is the American gun buyer, who thinks that their devalued currency should still be able to buy a quality product for a couple hundred bucks, just as it did in the 50’s and 60’s, when the US dollar was still worth something vs. tangible goods. You see no shortage of hunters who are willing to fork up $40K for a pickup, $10K for an ATV, hundreds of dollars for a set of boots that used to cost $40, but they want to be able to get out the door with a rifle, optics and ammo for $1K, when if you apply the same level of inflation/devaluation of currency that applies to cars, etc to their gun would mean that they should be paying in the range of $3K to $5K for that rifle and scope.

  17. couldn’t have happened to a better manufacturing company. Big greens been taking advantages of its customers ever since freedom group got a hold of it. You couldn’t give me a Remington firearms unless it post dated or predated excuse me 1980

    • From my perspective, the cut-off point for Remington would be about 1960, same as for Winchester.

      • That sounds about right. I know anything they haev made from about 1980 and up has been of the utmost crap in terms of quality

  18. I just read a review of the pistol in the latest issue of Recoil magazine. The sample gun sent by Remington for testing was shipped with its front sight all outta’ whack. QC from Big Green has obviously gone out the window.

    • Remington’s Quality Control has always been:

      Pass > Government contracts
      Acceptable > US domestic market
      Fail > Export

  19. I had a bad experience with Remington back in the 90’s, and I have never and will never spend a dime on a Remington product again.

    That said, I carried two of their products issued to me by the Army, and both were reliable and functioned wonderfully. I’m not carrying a grudge, but I never get burned twice by any company. It’s sad to see an institution like Green go downhill like this, but perhaps it’s time for them to go.

  21. To paraphrase Sam Ax, gun guys, a bunch of *itchy little girls. I remember the ohs and ahs from the crowd at TTAG when this little beauty was announced. It was the new ballistic fashion statement. Kind of like a Caracal. (Sorry Robert, couldn’t resist) I saw from the beginning that it was about the size of an XD/m compact with half the capacity making it kind of an Edsel. Yes, it is a little thinner but for single stack the XD/s was still better plus Springfield fixes its problems.

  22. Like many other companies, Remington is now run by accountants/financial managers. They don’t understand the industry and don’t care.

    They should talk to S&W about decisions that affect the bottom line.

    Some firearm owners have llloooonnnnnnggggggg memories.

  23. I’ve said for years that Remington is an over-valued firearm manufactured by a company that doesn’t listen to its customers. This product has been overhyped by people who are fans of all things Remington and now they have been educated on how silly they have been all these years. If they only knew how truly average those rifles and shotguns are they bought. Maybe not today, but soon.

    • You hit the nail right on the head my friend!!!! I dont know what people expect. Remington has NEVER NEVER NEVER made what most in gun circles consider really good quality firearms. Let me repeat, they have NEVER made good or great quality. EVER. What Remington did make was DECENT firearms at a price that the average person could afford. SO lots of people grew up in America shooting the Remington 700 and the 870 for shotgun, which were again, DECENT at a good cheap price compared to higher quality. So a lot of people only knew Remington and nothing else for the most part so they thought the older ones were the holy grail when it came to quailty. And now the quality of Remington is in the gutter so they have lost that middle class crowd, especially since most gun manufactures have now developed methods of building firearms at a much lower cost but retaining good quality. SO Remington in 2014 is up shit creek with no paddle and a giant hole in the boat. Simple fact is Remington went from decent to garbage, and others have stepped up thier games and are more affordable, so that leaves Remington at the very bottom. At this point I really see nothing that could save them. There is simple much more compitition now on the market that Remington is up against for them to recover and get those people back that used to buy their product cause it was affordable. They have lost and its time to put old green up for good IMO.

  25. The 700 has been out for years and so there are lot out there to fix. Because there are so few R51’s out in the wild, the cost of the R51 recall can’t be too bad except for reputation impacts.
    I have a Shield but for myself and other family members, I’m looking at the XDs, Walther CCP, G42 so I was also looking at the R51.
    Since the others are also pretty new, maybe I should wait for something on the other models to shake out.
    I am probably being saved by the fact that one cannot find a XDs or G42.
    And the Walther looks very intriguing but uses a whole different technology with the gas resisted delayed recoil blowback, so who knows how that may prove to be in the long run.

    To Be-ta or not to Be-ta, that is the question
    Whether ’tis Nobler in the mind to suffer
    The Guns and bullets of outrageous Fortune,
    or to cast those defective arms in to the sea of trouble.

  26. Yet another instance that demonstrates that engineers are obviously not shooters. How do products like this make it through testing? Do they just fire 10 rounds through the thing? It is really mind blowing.

    • As an engineer who used to have to deal with hoppin’ mad customers, here’s how:

      Management.

      The ranks of corporate management in the US are filled with the people who could not and can not do the lower-level jobs of creating actual product in the company. Many managers wouldn’t know a socket wrench from a pry bar if shoved both of them into their bodily orifices. Most management in the US has a liberal arts degree, capped off with the epic stupidity that is labelled and sold as a “MBA” graduate degree.

      When you’re an engineer, trying to explain the reasons why X has to be done to the product before it ships, you get a load of twaddle, bombast and self-serving justification from management, because many companies pay managers bonuses and pay raises for “hitting a milestone” or “shipping a product on time” but they don’t pay the engineers jack-shit for actually making this happen correctly, even when it required absurd amounts of overtime.

      Go into any company in the US and ask the engineering staff who they’d want to hang by the neck from a piece of music wire off the balcony on the upper-story corner office. Hint: The answers you get won’t be “the customers.”

      • F*cking this ^

        DG, hit another one right out of the park.

        I’m an engineer that spends everyday of my (business) life dealing with customers and/or managers.

        Bottom line (profit margin) is all that matters to the people that make the decisions with manufacturing and production, we, the engineers and customers alike, are merely incidental.

      • I would also like to add that I’m an engineer in a completely different industry than firearms.

        Yet, this is still utterly applicable.

  27. “I do not care for being an unpaid part of the research, development, and testing department for anyone…”

    Okay, what have you learned? Sure, you can blame Remington, but if the above is true don’t buy the new gee-whiz gizmo as soon as it comes out. As much as a company tests a product it usually can’t do so the same way customers do…

  28. This is what makes me hesitant to buy from Remington, when I really do like the looks of the R1 enhanced, it seems that they have been having some real problems in the past few years with quality control/ bad ideas.

  29. This is exactly why I refuse to ever buy new weapons. I always go ‘vintage’, the problems have been discovered, corrected and parts for a self repair are generally readily available. That and vintage weapons have a style and class all to themselves. Modern stuff just doesn’t have much character at all in my opinion.

  30. Why would they have a fix? They’ve had all of four weeks to detect, identify, diagnose, develop, and decide upon a fix at a nation wide scale. I also do not believe the “engineering” is likely at fault when the gun is so poorly manufactured in ways consistent with reported issues. My R51 had a rough and very short chamber, which would cause: stuck rounds (& slides), light strikes and out of battery malfunction, feeding issues, extraction issues, overpressure signs, and in the unique case of the Pedersen action, controlled/contained ignition slightly out of battery. Wow, those are the same issues reported for most R51’s. Interesting. Must be that terrible “engineering” or “flawed design” that made the chamber rough 😉

    TCB

  31. To be fair Springfield Armory took more than a few weeks to have a fix after they initiated a recall on the XDs and that was for a specific problem not just general problems. I was without it for months, so I feel for anyone who has to “beta test” a product released too early.

  32. Remington is finding it hard to build a functional 870, a design they’ve produced for 63 years. Is it surprising that they’d find a new pistol beyond their ability?

  34. When Remington started using the crinkle finish on their model 870 trigger housings, I decided it was time to look else where. I am the happy owner of an Ithaca model 37 Homeland Security 12 gauge shotgun. The only plastic on the gun is the stocks. There is no aluminum, just steel yet the gun is very light. Yes the Ithaca shotguns are expensive but they are not the victim of cost cutting like the Remington 870.

  35. Of course if they do come up with a fix and offer factory refurbs at a significant discount then I would be interested.

  36. Don’t forget the serial fiascoes with Marlin.

    It seems the management of Remington, Freedom and Cerberus have all but destroyed several historic companies. The focus seems to be on “hitting the numbers”, to the detriment of the product, quality and customers.

  37. S&W .380 Bodyguard
    Much more reliable and cheaper, with a solid history to fall back on. The only trouble I ‘ve had is finding .380 ammo!

  38. I have now put about 600 rounds through my R51 that I bought in mid-April. It’s serial # is in the 6000s. Today, I shot 100 rounds of Remington FMJ for the first time (could not find any previously). I used both magazines alternately and loaded them 7+1 to simulate a carry situation. With one magazine used I fired all 50 rounds without problems. With the other magazine I had two failures to eject which caused the slide to stay open, the bullet sat halfway out of the barrel in both cases. Dropping the magazine and racking the slide extracted the spent hull in both cases. Obviously, that’s not a situation I’d like to face when in harm’s way.

    I plan to buy more magazines (if I can find any, that is) and see if the problem is with the gun or the magazines. In the meantime I will soon shoot 100 more rounds of Remington FMJ using only the magazine that worked perfectly today. I’m hoping it will not result in any FTEs.

    BTW, the slide on mine was VERY hard to move at first. Now, it is much easier to rack. I clean and lubricate it after every range session. I use a little grease on the shiny places on the breach block and use Rem Oil spray everywhere else.

    Early on I was up till 2 am one night trying to get it re-assembled correctly. Getting the slide release pin back in correctly takes practice, and I always conduct a function test afterwards. The spring bushing is totally scratched up too. But, I think that’s mostly a cosmetic issue.

    I have had problems with the sights too. The front sight is not centered but does not move at all. The rear sight moves left after 3 to 4 rounds. I can push it back into position with my thumb.

    After shooting the pistol today I took it to a local gunsmith. I am thinking about fixing both sights in place somehow and not bothering about having ‘adjustable’ sights on a carry pistol. The gunsmith thought the fit on the dovetail for the rear sight was “horrible.” But, he believes he can make them stay put. For the rear sights he’s thinking about drilling and tapping for a small screw set in the middle. I’ll have to check that such a fix does not interfere with the breech block’s movement. For the front sight, he believes he can add some friction where the sight overlaps the slide at the front of the sight.

    I don’t want to send the pistol back and I’d like to carry it eventually. In the meantime, my J frame 38 Special remains my EDC. One reason I bought the R51 was because of its thin profile. When I holster it I find it more comfortable than the revolver. Another reason I bought it was that it looked and worked differently than other pistols. I knew of the negative reviews going in, so I feel lucky that mine shoots (most of the time, at least 🙂 I won’t commit to it as my EDC any time soon. It’s my first semi-auto and I’m really a revolver guy. Who knows, I may end up carrying both. Wonder which one will be the BUG?

  39. I’m just watching Remington slip away. It started about 10 years ago when I bought 4 Remington 597’s….one for me, one for each son….cool looking, neat….then I went to shoot them….they can not consistently feed a full mag. I tried stretching the mag springs, replaced with “Generation 2” mags still no luck……I’m trying to dump them…can only load the magazines to 7 or 8 rounds to get consistent feeding and FTL’s….

    Next up? The Remington 710…..kids were getting older, thought I would try the .270….every shot, and the bolt handle kicked up about 1/3 of the way from rest…NOT good….despite Wally Mart’s no return policy, they took it back, full refund…..

    And now, the R51…really, really, really wanted one as I own 8, 9mm pistols…always in search of the PERFECT concealed 9mm for me….this LOOKED like it might work…and now this….this, coupled with the flagship 700 pretty much does it in for me….no more Remingtons, period. I have an old 442 and a Nylon 66 (Brown) I bought new in 1982….why can’t Remington make THAT one again…talk about your non-stop, Guiness Book of Record setter….cheap too……

    Remington fails to make firearms anymore. Funny, because people WERE willing to pay a premium for the brand….now? Savage trumps Remington 6 ways to x-mas….no thanks, I’ll stick with Savage, Ruger, and even Weatherby for modest, combo packs and 300-500 yard bang sticks….Remington blows and how I wish it werent so….

  40. I have some advise for Remington. Shut down production on all firearms and retool the entire operation. Here is the cold hard truth…..Remington has not made a quality firearm in many years. The 870 is no where near the quality it once was, the once great 700 is a joke, I picked one up the other day and my father would be embarresed to see what a peice of absolute shit the 700 is now….machine marks all over it, flimsy, cheap parts, even the stock, which was wood felt awful, almost like they found the worst wood they could find at a cheap price to make the stock. And we dont even need to discuss the R51. The only gun they have put out that is of decent quality in the 1911 line, and even then most have that “made by machines” feel to them. And lets be honest, how hard is it to make a decent 1911? NOT HARD AT ALL. Even so thier 1911 line is far behind others in same price point such as Ruger, Sigs and Springfields in overall quality. Its such a shame to see such a company rich in American and Military tradition fall so far, its sad! Sometimes just stopping everything, starting over and retooling everything is a good idea and now is the time for them. They are an embarrasment to the gun market in 2014

  41. some people are actually getting refunds on them. Others may keep them as they look like they will be rarer than dardic or gyro-jet.

  42. Well well well……As of July 25th Remington announces it has ceased production of the R51…..Big surprise!!!!! They said that customer feedback showed the gun had flaws and they have officially ceased all production to c ix eye problems until October…..which in real time terms means 2015. Anyone who purchased the R51 can send it back and receive the new updated version once they hit the retail market…..not sure I would want another one but OK I guess….so everything nick speculated and predicated was spot on!!! Gun is a disaster and I don’t think retooling it in a few months will do much good. They have basically recalled the gun by ceasing production and offering current owners new ones….sounds like a recall to me. Remington just doesn’t have the balls to call it that. The whole company is in a downward spiral. Rip Remington

  43. Similar thing with Sigarms. Very unwise of the Swiss / Germans to let modern US corporate types (sleazy carpetbaggers) get their hands on prestigious brands.
    Sig Sauer established an enviable product reputation but allowed their brand identity to be applied to inferior US marketed products that have disappointed and attracted nothing but criticism to the brand itself.
    With the collapse of the once mighty Detroit and other parts of The USA, it does seem that America is facing another turning point in its history.
    Wonder how things will turn out ?

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