Whenever the gun control industry gets its knickers in a twist—especially when they’re waving the bloody shirt—you can count on all the usual suspects lighting-up the mainstream media’s guest bookers’ phone lines. The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, The Mayors Against Illegal Guns, the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, etc. Never mind that these pro-gun control orgs have fewer members than the University of Alabama National Alumni Association. The media cedes them the moral high ground and gives them millions of dollars worth of free air time. The anti-gunners put the NRA squarely in their sights, portraying the gun rights org (a.k.a., “the gun lobby”) as the devil incarnate. And where is the NRA spokesman pushing back against the gun grabbers, de-linking gun rights and mass murder, forwarding positive steps to protect our populace, showing fence straddlers that gun owners care, too? Where is the NRA’s statement on YouTube, their website or Twitter account? Where indeed.
If I’m not mistaken it is the NRAs policy to not use these sort of situations to further their cause out of respect for the families
Which is foolish. The enemy is using every second to push their agenda and letting them get a week (or two) of 24/7 media coverage of only their anti-gun view pounded into heads of the moronic masses only puts us at a disadvantage. If they’re going to play dirty, we have no choice but to play by their rules and beat them at their own game.
the NRA’s silence shows they are classier than the gun control folks on the far left.
Classier yes, but just look how well that worked for us in this past election.
You mean “more foolish”. The anti’s know the strategy that works and they’re executing it perfectly.
Once upon a time, that was acceptable. Nowadays its the “golden 24.” There are 24 hours after an incident/crisis in which to get the message out.
Actually, it’s now 24 minutes. And I’d see nothing wrong with a generic statement—similar to the President’s—stating sympathy and offering hope.
I also see nothing wrong with the NRA jumping in the media trenches and countering the anti-gun avalanche infecting our airwaves immediately after a firearms-related tragedy.
Discretion may be the better part of valor, but gun rights advocates are in an endless fight for their freedom. We can take take the moral high ground but why start from 50 yards behind the goal line?
You expect the NRA to get down in the trenches and get their hands dirty fighting for our gun rights? But at the same time you take the “Moral High Ground” in the fight and allow all the nut job grabbers like mikeyb and hmmmmmm to spew their garbage all over this site.
RF, it’s time for the NRA and TTAG to take the gloves off and fight just as dirty as the grabbers.
I have a feeling Monday morning they will be on the phone to the hill. Quietly behind the scenes.
I have to agree that the NRA must speak, in a classy and dignified way, showing intelligence, humility, and respect.
Silence can work for only so long before its used against you.
I’m hard pressed to think of a way the NRA could respond without getting a massive amount of backlash. Until emotions chill out they’re in damned if you do damned if you don’t situation
Geez, no kidding. Silence is Golden at the moment.
100% right. They’re the devil all the time anyway, and while the antis are making hay standing over dead children, they’re pointing the finger at hte NRA, cause a gun killed those kids. Not some nutjob. And the NRA put it in his hands.
And while we all know that’s pure bullshit, that’s exactly how it’s being played out.
Good point. BTW, the NRA CEO’s salary: $970,300.00, 6th highest among charities. Perhaps he too busy deciding on the interior appointments for his new yacht…
Yeah theres the homeless guy on the corner who could run a 400 million dollar organization, thousands of workers and volunteers, manage thousands of national events across a dozen sports, publish a half dozen journals, provide legal advocacy for 2A, and throw in media events and a public face to America. Yup, I ‘d say 8.50 an hour should do fine to get McDonalds asst mgr in charge.
And yet we criticize the Wounded Warriors Project for (among other valid criticisms) its exorbitant salaries to its executives. Double standards?
Bob said: “BTW, the NRA CEO’s salary: $970,300.00, 6th highest among charities.”
and Dan said: “And yet we criticize the Wounded Warriors Project for (among other valid criticisms) its exorbitant salaries to its executives. Double standards?”
Neither of you are making any sense. Why are you drawing a comparison between the NRA CEO’s salary and charity CEOs’ salaries? The NRA isn’t a charity. It’s an advocacy and lobbying organization, among other things like conservation and education. (They do have a charitable foundation, but that’s a separate entity.) If you want to compare the NRA CEO to someone in the same “class,” try the CEO of AARP (who makes about $600,000, not that it matters).
Compare the reaction in say Israel to a similar attack. Would they blame the guns or the actors? I think, heck I know the latter. Here we have been programmed to do the opposite. The NRA could come out with compassionate statements along with clear information about the instruments used, our right to defend ourselves and loved ones. Refuse to do debates. That is what the anti ‘s would want. Just single one on brief interviews stating our case. We have to break the programming.
To Tommy Knocker,
In 1994 an American Terrorist named Baruch Goldstein a radical extremist zionist who lived in New York before moving back to Israel, took his Israeli issued machine gun and walking into a house of worship in Hebron Palestine and murdered 29 praying worshipers.
This Newtown terrorist suicide attack on innocent babies reminded me of the American/Israeli terrorist Baruch Goldstein. There were Israelis who actually erected a shrine for the terrorist Goldstein because he killed innocent people. Goldstein received his WMD machine gun from the Israeli government and NO laws preventing such attacks have been enacted by Israel to protect innocent Hebron residents.
Israel is the absolute worst example of who is allowed to carry weapons especially since Israelis use machine guns to annex land against international law.
Nothing they said would be taken in context and would be used against them.
With all due respect, I think you’re being a bit harsh towards the NRA. Like all organizations, it’s not perfect. In fact, I’ve taken them to task over several major issues in the past. In particular, for continuing to harbor Muslim-brotherhood-linked operatives, like Grover Norquist, within their ranks.
However, nows the time for mourning – not mounting a counter-attack.
Anyone who doesn’t believe that Obama’s committed to undermining our Constitutional rights – in particular, the Second Amendment, is a fool. Our very way of life is under assault on multiple fronts. For us to emerge victorious, we need to build a coalition of unity – not divisiveness.
I don’t see any point in the NRA releasing a statement, it would simply fuel the flames. Their silence is wise.
Sometimes it is ok just to keep one’s mouth shut.
I wish I could figure out how to do that more often.
🙂
Not familiar with the concept. Obviously.
Silence speaks volumes, but sometimes it’s a bad book. Or something like that.
If it weren’t for all of us law abiding citizens who make up the NRA…
The NRA wouldn’t exist!
Which is to say all of those who are taking “shots” at the NRA are taking “shots” at us!
I think that the NRA senses that this is different from any prior tragedy. This is the second worst mass shooting in our history and the worst to target young children. A sea change is coming. Things may not get as extreme as the UK or Australia. At least not yet, but there will be a hard look at new restrictions.
The real problem is that the underlying societal causes that created this deranged killer are not going to be easy to fix. Much easier will be to ban guns. Politicians and people generally choose the easier path.
What makes this situation different from many others is that many parents feel helpless. In the wake of Aurora, people looked at the situation and thought that if more patrons had guns, the spree killer could have been stopped. So more people went out and bought guns. The thinking that more, rather than fewer guns could mitigate such tragedies resonated. In the case of the Sandy Hook shooting, we aren’t going to arm our 4th graders. Sure, the argument in favor of arming teachers is discussed, but I suspect that this is a dead issue, largely because those who are in control of our schools tend to be the sort of folks who generally opposoe gun rights.
The only way to prevent this sort of thing from happening in the future is to enact total ban like the UK and Australia. Sure, we know that this opens the door for other problems, particularly of the home invasion kind, but society stops seeing “mass killings” and it is seen as effective legislation.
Can’t seem to edit my comment. In my last paragraph, I meant to say that many people will see a total ban as the only way. Didn’t intend to imply that I believe that.
In Australia we haven’t outlawed guns totally, we have just outlawed the auto and semi auto rifles and a handgun license is very hard almost impossible to get, which is some what of a happy medium for eveyone in Australia. I don’t see the point in owning a semi auto or auto rifle or handguns, if you need it for defence there is something wrong with society. On the other hand i’m happy for people to have a single shot rifle or shot gun for hunting and recreation purposes, thats fine not a problem. I think there needs to be some gun control but not total control, the USA needs to find a happy medium. By the way I like hunting and shooting.
compromise is the bastard child of tyranny.
some americans (not all unfortunately) will not even reason with a happy medium when it comes to constitutional rights.
“I don’t see the point in owning a semi auto or auto rifle or handguns, if you need it for defence there is something wrong with society.”
Something is wrong with society. Here, there, the UK, everywhere. It’s a fact of life.
“if you need it for defence there is something wrong with society.”
this is why,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions
governments cannot be trusted to act in good faith towards the people. somehow many believe that because we live in the 21st century age of the internet and smart phones, despotism is a thing of the past. those that come to those conclusions couldnt be any more wrong…and foolish.
The NRA is being smart and letting the dust settle a little bit. They want to get all the facts first.
Let the anti-gunners make the anti-gun proposals and then the NRA will explain why none of them would have prevented the killing other and letting the teachers arm themselves.
+1000!!
We and the NRA need to be above the dancing in the blood and screaming rhetoric the grabbers and media are known for!!!
Let the families and the community grieve, and Monday morning issue a statement expressing all of our condolences and our prayers for everyone.
Then at the end of the statement express how the abolition of gun free zones and ccw restrictions would have had a greater chance of allowing a law abiding citizen to have stopped this and other tragedies.
Remind the grabbers and the public in general that as lawful gun owners and ccw license holders we would run to the fight instead of away!! It is in our nature to want to protect our families and friends and those not able to protect themselves.
End of Statement.
I am of the opinion it is always better to let emotions play out a bit, before making a defense for gun rights. When people are upset, they are less likely to think rationally, or logically. But many WILL hold grudges if they feel slighted by a statement made when upset.
Jay Carney is not the face of the gun control movement, and he’s been ripped APART for his “today is not the day” statement. Can you envision how much more vitriol the NRA would take?
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Who knows what they are thinking. They might be waiting to see how it goes; or maybe they’re incompetant. I do have the impression that, if they were to offer condolenences, they would be immediately flamed for it. Perhaps it is best to wait a day or two, wait for some of the raw emotion to die down, before saying something–but it certainly comes at the risk of looking inconsiderate. But if they say something, it will inevitably stir the flames of debate.
imo, the least thy could of done is to say “lets wait until the investigation is finished” before they would put out a statement. the anti are the ones with diarrhea of the mouth, 2a side needs to be smart and factual in our arguments,
Problem is that the gun control nutjobs have a strat- that involves attempting to make the NRA feel responsible for any incident like this, even asking them to give an apology, which is sick.
Attempting to defend could be seen by the “uninformed” as a half admission of some culpability…no matter how well spoken. We have already seen what the uninformed can do in this years election…
I still hope (with good evidence) that no matter what happens, the gun controllers are finished. Let’s see if Michigan still eliminates schools from the “gun free zone” list. I think they will. Too many people with too many (fun) guns learning about the importance of rights in the face of an evil, out of control government. Cultural shift.
Nutty a$$ delusion. Head can’t process. So much ignorance packed into so few words.
a statist wouldnt understand such concepts.
its ok. i forgive you statists.
I understand that facing the storm of antigun sentiment following one of these events, it feels like someone should be setting the record straight. You may wish to consider two things.
First, anything said about politics or gun rights detracts from the central issue, the victims. It is in just as poor taste to use such an event to push one’s agenda as it is to help someone else to do so by rebutting their accusations. The NRA maintains the moral high ground by declining to comment. Further, they make the most vocal gun control advocates seem like the heartless opportunists they are by leaving them to push their ghoulish platforms on the backs of the recent dead.
Second, there’s nothing that the NRA can say right now that will do anything positive but soothe the flayed nerves of its constituents. Gun legislation takes time to craft, propose, and push to a vote. Gun rights groups are served much better by waiting till tempers cool when they can fight their battles without the fervor of recent tragedy to overcome. The media is anti-gun. Anything the NRA says right now has the potential to be taken out of context and used to further the cause of the opposition.
There’s nothing good the NRA can say. There’s no good that can come from any statement they make. Silence isn’t just a good strategic choice; it’s also a tasteful and respectful response to a tragedy which has nothing to do with their organization.
I think the NRA is being wise in its silence. There are precious few Americans that realize the massive failure of the “gun free zone.” The people partially responsible for this incident are those that would fire or imprison teachers for concealed carry. That is the real solution to the problem of loss of life, as the Rabbi has previously stated.
Gun Free Zone + Deranged Shooter + 5-10 Armed Response Time = Dozens of lives lost
Deranged Shooter + Immediate Armed Reaponse = Fewer Victims
And perhaps
Deranged Shooter + Deterrent Effects of Known Concealed Carry = No Shots fired
On duty, I’ve open carried (as part of the required uniform) in preschools, kindergartens, middle schools, high schools, and colleges. There have been times when I’ve had to swipe eager fingers away from my gun, taser, and pepper spray. Yet no student has ever run rampant with any of my weapons. Concealed carry is much easier – you don’t have kids grabbing for your weapons.
Were I the NRA, I would develop a factual presentation extolling the positive attributes of concealed carry. I would wait until more facts have been revealed, and simply speak the truth – namely that gun free zones are a failed concept.
Based on my own interactions with many, many teachers, not many of them would carry a firearm if so allowed.
J&D, you’re correct. Not many teachers would carry if they could. But it takes only one.
Everyone packing! Only solution!
Everyone packing! Only solution!
So, get packing.
You don’t need many. I’m actually a little leery about arming teachers because they are so surrounded by kids all day. Their primary focus is supposed to be on teaching, not gun retention. That said, there are others in the school – maintenance guys, counselors, administrators, etc. Find one or two who are also vets . . .
The anti gunners could care less about the kids. We know what will be the best chance to stop the killings & so do they. Every single one of them does not want to live in a world of guns, their reality is shattered if this happens. The bradys are not good or well meaning people that are just mistaken. They will protect their fantasy world at all costs & these deaths mean nothing to them. The school went through some bs security updates, just no evil guns to protect the kids. The bradys are losing the fight big time as more schools have armed security because we know how well the butter knife did for the Milw. temple pastor. I’m told that Menominee Falls Wis has a cop in each school, that is a municipality that cares about its kids. I think reality will prevail, Randy
Don’t question the motives of gun control advocates. Of course they care about kids. And contrary to the implication of your second sentence, they honestly think the best way to stop the killings is to get rid of the guns. And it probably would be, if it were possible to get rid of even 97 percent of the 300 million guns out there. You are making up fantasies about people who you don’t know, who are probably just as decent and honest as you are. These things should be argued on the merits, not on one’s imaginings of what no-goodnicks the opposition is.
I know a woman who lives in fear that her ne’er-do-well, nutcase brother will get hold of a gun and go on a killing spree. He has tried to get guns. This is probably similar to this mass shooting, the Giffords mass shooting, and numerous others. It would be nice if something could be done about the access nutcases have to guns before they start shooting, rather than relying on some sharpshooter to nail them before they’ve claimed too many victims (although I’m beginning to think it would be nice to have that as a backup).
I don’t question the motivation of the anti politicians — I know exactly what it is and it has nothing to do with saving children. The poor kids are pawns in an ideological game of government control vs. individual rights.
Here’s what I learned from Ruby Ridge and Waco — only the government is allowed to kill children.
Wow. They don’t care about the kids? Disgusting.
Conspiracy! Dem danged soshalists juss tryin’ ta git my guns!
If they cared about kids, there would have been no Ruby Ridge or Waco and a lot of children in Iraq would still be breathing.
I’ll tell you why.
The NRA, and all gun-rights groups tend to use facts instead of hyperbole. Facts are pretty much all we have ever had to make an argument with.
Imagine, had the NRA made the mistake CNN did, and publicly label the wrong guy as the monster that murdered children. Imagine what a field day the Brady kids would have had.
‘Oh, you fingered the wrong guy, and now he has to live with that, along with what his brother did, his brother’s , and his mom and dad’s death as well. Shame on you’
The anti’s rely on rhetoric. Which works well in an emotionally charged environment We rely on cold facts, which tend not to work very well when when people are in shock and grieving.
Never mind that the anti’s get away with politicizing such a tragedy immediately and getting away with it. They can. They do. Repeatedly. Get used to it. People accept it and it works, because of the struggle folks have with the main question of “WHY”. Blaming gun is easy, and quick, and allows people to resolve that portion of their grief, quickly, and easily, when in reality, there is a much more vast, complicated, and frustrating answer to the question of “why”. One that runs from the spiritual and supernatural, to the psychological, the legal, the societal, and yes, the mechanical.
Simply put, logic fails when emotions run high. The NRA knows this, and wisely lets the to emotional process work it’s way unimpeded.
Can’t see what’s wrong with limiting access to weapons that are designed for mass killing.
Any weapon can be used in a mass killing, including machetes.
Mass killing of who? Children or hurricane Katrina people trying to protect themselves from roving looter/gangs. Like I said before, sometimes you might need to take out a bunch of model citizens & an AR is your best bet, Randy
Because, arguably, provably, gun bans and other forms of gun control never achieved their stated ends, and only served to interfere with the law abiding. See a little better now?
This stands up to reason. We have by far the most guns per capita in the world AND the lowest gun homicide rate! Sensible Steve for president!
Is that why nearly ever police officer in America carries an AR-15 in their patrol car? So they can commit mass murder? Because I thought it was because AR-15 type rifles are excellent self defense weapons.
Dear NRA, PLEASE PLUG FOR MORE GUNS NOW!!! We need more! If we can reach 500,000,000 guns everything will be safe again. Please, push legislation to require all school teachers to wear a sidearm! And postal workers, mall employees, church congregants, movie theatre employees! The only thing that can save us is more guns! Please Obama, ease gun restrictions! Don’t tread on me! My guns are so important to me that you’ll have to pry them out of my cold dead hands before I’ll voluntarily let them go in the best interest of society! If it had been my kids’ school I would have flown in with my AR-15 and blasted his &&&! Me and my guns are the solution! Yay, more guns! Guns don’t kill people, people do! Yay guns!
I weep for you.
Raincoats work in the rain, But not in hot, dry weather. When the rain stops, we will debate. Then you can sweat and we, as always, will be cool.
LOL. Yes, Jedi Master, we all learn from your wise ways.
Do you know mikey????
I know a Mikey. Is this C. A.?
KBD
Your right gun control is the answer. If only CT had an “assault weapon ban”. If only there was a ban on carrying a gun on school property. If only there was a law against a 20 year old possessing handguns in CT. If there was only a law against mental defects getting a gun. If only there was a law against shooting people. I just don’t see this type of thing happening in a state that is ranked #5 in states with most restrictive gun control laws , ask the Brady campaign.
If we could only get rid of the guns then we could all live in peace. I mean how could anything bad happen if we didnt have guns. Imagine that world, the world trade centers would be standing tall, the Oklahoma federal building would still have their day care, the pentagon wouldn’t have a hole in it, Bath, MI would still have the same school building that they had in 1927.
I weep too, for human beings must adapt and overcome to continue survival. KBD I hope you adapting plan of sticking your head in the sand and hoping it all goes away works out for you.
This kind of obfuscation is painful to read.
So don’t.
That’s probably because the truth hurts.
“My guns are so important to me that you’ll have to pry them out of my cold dead hands before I’ll voluntarily let them go in the best interest of society”
best interest of society. Rich.
“those that give up essential liberty for little or no temporary safety deserve neither”- ben franklin –
i weep for you
The whole “firearms are the problem” argument holds very little substance to begin with.
What is known is that the firearms used were registered and legally owned by someone else, similar to the Red Lake shooting in 2005. Guns can be banned, but that doesn’t mean they all magically disappear.
The second point is the shooter could of used any other weapon and still got similar results. The only people capable of resisting in a classroom full of children are the one or two adults there. Once the adults get taken out, the children are helpless and at the monster’s mercy.
I cannot help but wonder if those calling for gun control are really trying to fix the problem or milk as much political points as possible.
You’ve hit it! It’s the ages old socialist conspiracy! Obama/Stalin tryin’ to git yo guns mane!
KBD, Have a good cry. When you have your emotions under control you can rejoin the conversation. Should take you about 20-30 years and a lot of therapy. Good luck.
Jwm is America’s rock of reason! He is showing the rest of us how to have reasonable conversations! Guns don’t kill people, more guns! Dem soshalists jus tryin’ to git ma guns!
Some of the $&@$ you people say blows my mind.
Yes NRA pepes, you are all facts and logic! Not a drop of rhetoric among you! That’s why the whole civilized worl is following your agenda.
Deranged people pull triggers! Guns don’t pull their own triggers! ERGO, we should have guns everywhere!!!
Makes perfect sense!
More sense, perhaps, than applying human characteristics to inanimate objects
Please see preceding argument again. Maybe you’ll follow it this time.
I followed it and still found it to be absurd.
I’m not the least bit emotional. Used to collect guns of all types. Then had enough. Hold on to your guns, JWM. They make life worthwhile.
You have the freedom to make your decision and made it. Leave my freedom alone.
I too am feed up with guns KFC, our brave men in blue subject to constant robberies at work… what? there are no police station robbery’s? Gee, I wonder why, lol, Randy
Randy is right!!!! Everyone to the police academy, running around in bullet proof vests, packing heat! Sense has prevailed!!!
Vests no, concealed carry yes. It’s a bad world with everyone packin isn’t it? It’s a good world with 20 children being killed isn’t it? Whats really refreshing is that you aren’t carrying are you? Randy
Please send Randy, fast as you can. If he can’t blast them bad guys nobody can!!!
Used to collect guns of all types
Super Soakers don’t count.
Yes, would have gone the same with a butcher knife.
Seriously?
If you were versed in history, you will realise there are no limits to human adaptability and no depths to evil in the heart of man.
Butcher knife? Yes, I can see many ways that could be done. But because of your preconceived notions and biases you probably fail to realize how dangerous human intelligence can potentially be.
Silly silly silly. Mind-numbingly stupid.
By the way, I’m a historian. I’ve got more verses of history than you could pack in your garage.
Your witty and convincing argument is duly noted. I am in complete awe at your superior intellect. May you continue to be a shining beacon of wisdom for all of us in the darkness.
No need to apologise, I am clearly in the wrong as I have made far too many assumptions. It’s just I do not want children to be shot or stabbed. I find any form of violence towards children abhorrent. It’s not a matter of which is worse, but how to prevent them, as clearly attacks on helpless children is a worldwide issue. As for needing more guns, that is a straw man on your part.
Verses of history? Sorry, you are no historian.
Ralph, you’ve single-handedly wiped away all of my credentials.
John: The suggestion that gun advocates do not bandy about the notion that more guns are the solution to these problems is downright disingenuous. My family is teeming with NRA members, and I’ve heard it a dozen times from all of them. Hence concealed carry laws, open carry laws, etc. Just got off the phone with my mom and heard it from her. Had there been a trained gun carrier at the school it wouldn’t have happened. The notion that there are calls for more guns is anything but a straw man.
Please see:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/14/china-school-attack_n_2298430.html
22 injured in an attack outside an elementary school with a knife.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932011%29
It occurs to me after the fact that my post could have been better worded.
I should have said something like, in support of your statement.
Between the two of us, I don’t think anyone can convincingly say that hammers and knives aren’t potential tools for such tragedies.
I apologize, John. You are clearly right. Nothing would be different without guns everywhere. Your insight prevails.
The incontrovertible proof is in! There have been mass murders with knives in the world. Therefore we need more guns!
Actually, I was pointing out that neither China’s extensive gun control laws nor a lack of firearms has prevented disturbed people from hurting groups of their fellow man.
More guns are as much the answer to this problem as more gun control laws are.
You seem set on antagonizing your audience rather than engaging in reasoned debate.
When you want to discuss the issue and legitimate solutions I’ll be happy to oblige. Until then please have a nice day.
No, MD Matt, I apologize. You clearly have the sensible high ground. We’ve accumulated more guns in this country than any other on earth (per capita) and have murder rates to match. All the developed countries that don’t think guns ought to be passed out to all takers have murder rates that are a fraction of ours. But none of that has any sense, right? That’s just rhetoric, right? Or is it that all of those other 20+ developed countries have no deranged people? Please, Mr. Reason, explain that to me.
“We’ve accumulated more guns in this country than any other on earth (per capita) and have murder rates to match.”
and our murder rates have been decreasing since the 1960s, despite millions of firearms being sold and our population growing to over 300 million people.
also, our european friends have always had traditionally lower rates of gun violence than the united states.
In fact, there are 300 million people in this country, and about 3 million of them die every year. even including the 95% of shootings that occur during a crime, gunshot wounds don’t make the top 25 causes of death. When you take into account just the accidental shootings, they don’t make the top 100.
its useful to cherry pick, no?
“All the developed countries that don’t think guns ought to be passed out to all takers have murder rates that are a fraction of ours. ”
…and they’ve always been a fraction of ours before the passing of further gun legislation in the UK and elsewhere. try again.
“But none of that has any sense, right? That’s just rhetoric, right? Or is it that all of those other 20+ developed countries have no deranged people? Please, Mr. Reason, explain that to me.”
its intellectual dishonesty at its finest. congratulations in winning the “chucklehead of the day” award. sell some of those bushels of picked cherries you have accumulated. i promise youll be rich.
“and our murder rates have been decreasing since the 1960s, despite millions of firearms being sold and our population growing to over 300 million people.”
And voila, thanks to the power of magical thinking, there can be no connection between the availability of guns and the prevalence of gun murders!!!
“also, our european friends have always had traditionally lower rates of gun violence than the united states.”
Traditionally lower…or 1/10 to 1/20. And so because their number have always been lower, the prevalence of guns here has no connection to our astronomical rates of gun death!!! Magical thinking wins the day in Gun-Land!!!
“In fact, there are 300 million people in this country, and about 3 million of them die every year. even including the 95% of shootings that occur during a crime, gunshot wounds don’t make the top 25 causes of death. When you take into account just the accidental shootings, they don’t make the top 100.
And so There You Have it Folks! Thanks to the power of magical thinking the wide prevalence of firearms in the United States has absolutely no correlation with the very high rates of gun murder!!!
WLCE here showing how the power of magical thinking allows you to turn nonsense into the only sense!
“And voila, thanks to the power of magical thinking, there can be no connection between the availability of guns and the prevalence of gun murders!!!”
…especially when the number of defensive gun uses and lives saves outweigh the unnecessary deaths and injuries from firearms. try again.
but of course, guns are bad m’kay? LMAO!!!
“Traditionally lower…or 1/10 to 1/20. And so because their number have always been lower, the prevalence of guns here has no connection to our astronomical rates of gun death!!! Magical thinking wins the day in Gun-Land!!!”
and you are not following along. comparing the united states with europe makes your point invalid. also, despite what you may think, the UKs gun violence rate has increased despite various draconian measures against gun violence.
you blame the supply of guns. i blame the naive idea that humans will always be peaceful and restricting firearms prevents crime.
then there’s poor jamaica.
“And so There You Have it Folks! Thanks to the power of magical thinking the wide prevalence of firearms in the United States has absolutely no correlation with the very high rates of gun murder!!!”
so based off of the facts i have presented thats all you can muster? blaming gun supply again? i expected so much more.
“WLCE here showing how the power of magical thinking allows you to turn nonsense into the only sense!”
its called sticking to the facts. but why stick to facts when it is more fun to stand on your soapbox and argue with emotion.
id hate to tell you this, but statistically you are more likely to die driving to the hospital. i take it you dont drive or go to the hospital if you are so afraid of gun murder.
LOL. I was arguing for gun rights against my wife just a few days ago (before Newtown) and used this old chestnut myself:
“id hate to tell you this, but statistically you are more likely to die driving to the hospital. i take it you dont drive or go to the hospital if you are so afraid of gun murder.”
Although I was using it about her fear of sending kids to school. Your use of it as a call to inaction is ludicrous. Yes, I’m just afraid of being shot. You’ve arrived at the crux of the issue.
All the other stuff I’m too tired to break down for you. Besides you’re clearly impervious to reason.
“Although I was using it about her fear of sending kids to school. Your use of it as a call to inaction is ludicrous. Yes, I’m just afraid of being shot. You’ve arrived at the crux of the issue.”
im not calling for inaction. Im calling for allowing concealed carriers to carry in otherwise “gun free zones” and “gun free zones” dont fulfill their intended purpose.
if you are afraid of being shot, then you must be terrified of the hospital. my point is that you have far more to worry about and are standing on a soapbox to irrationally argue against something that does not even constitute the top 10 causes of death.
“All the other stuff I’m too tired to break down for you. Besides you’re clearly impervious to reason.”
I wont agree with you, therefore im “impervious to reason” LOL.
you can just quit while youre ahead. i wont think any less of you.
@KDB
Maybe not but think about this: I can go to town and legally buy everything I need to build napalm bombs/ Molotov cocktails.
Now since there are no guns what happens when a nutjob wants to commit mass murder??, he throws 3 or 4 napalm bombs into a few classroom windows and burns his victims to death.
Now are you going to run at him with a fire extinguisher while he is throwing flaming bottles around?? Or would you rather shoot him and out him down??
Now go ban everything used in these bombs, hope you enjoy walking or riding your horse everywhere, all year round since gasoline, bottles, dishwashing liquid and other items that can be used to kill people have all been banned!!
Steve, you apparently can’t follow an argument.
You haven’t made one yet…….
LMAO.
Kbd types fast and is insulting. Like the 5 yo on the playground that believes he’s won the argument because he yells loudest and fastest.
In the mean time I will continue to protect my rights from further intrusion. If that upsets little KBD, well that’s just a bonus.
Yes, JWM, you’ve figured me out. There is no sense to anything beyond what you believe. And yes, I’m little. Diminutive. Like 4′ 3″ and with a very small member.
KBD, you do realize this is the most successful pro gun blog out there, don’t you? Close to 900 thousand hits a month.
All you’ve accomplished with this epic temper tantrum blitz attack this morning is make this site more successful and I would be truly surprised if you didn’t piss off enough people that they’ll just dig in their heels and fight for more guns just to get back at you.
Thank you once again for making this a great pro gun site.
JWM, do you realize that there are others who happen by here? Do you realize that, rhetorically, the absolute poverty of your arguments is being exposed?
“I would be truly surprised if you didn’t piss off enough people that they’ll just dig in their heels and fight for more guns just to get back at you.”
On no! I’ve changed the course of history and steeled the resolve of all the gun toters. I’ve been defeated!
Let me tell you what’s happening: At the macro-level y’all are losing this cultural conversation. Mark my words homie.
It’s a crapshoot kbd. Your shrill blitz may well be causing more people to convert to our cause. Either way, you’re helping to make this a site that the pols can’t ignore. Any pol keeping an eye on stats is going to realize that a pro gun site with near a million viewers a month represents voters he can’t afford to piss off.
So adding to our numbers may well sway a few pols to at least take a pass on the gun control issue and some may become pro gun in hopes of currying more votes.
Thank you for supporting our gun rights kbd.
KFC, We’ll see what the school decides now. Maybe a better door, a security system where you need to say captain may I, or an armed guard. I know your hopeing you & bradys can make up a nice little sign that says don’t shoot our kids or else. Haven’t we helped you enough now? Randy
Please send Randy, fast as you can. If he can’t blast them bad guys nobody can!!!
More guns! Can’t. Get. Enough. Guns!!!! Ahhhhhh!!!!!!
wow. can you throw up a bigger strawman? that guy is giant. http://images.upixa.com/images-thumbnails/leisure-image-comps/Giant_Straw_Man_York_Maze_York-024544.jpg
most (including myself) are arguing against further restrictions against a class of weapon that wasnt even used in the massacre, not arming everybody.
Most, including yourself, are arguing against any further restrictions on the free trade of machines designed to take life. Because here in the land of magical thinking have such machines widely available and freely traded plays Absolutely No Role in facilitating violent crime. Guns aren’t the problem, people are! We should just get rid of people and let guns live in our houses!
Source: WLCE, professional reasoner.
“Most, including yourself, are arguing against any further restrictions on the free trade of machines designed to take life. ”
yes you would be correct. do you want to know why?
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment
i know it is sensible for some to forfeit some freedom for perceived gains in security, but “those that give up essential liberty for little or no temporary safety deserve neither” -ben franklin-
“Because here in the land of magical thinking have such machines widely available and freely traded plays Absolutely No Role in facilitating violent crime. ”
…that has been decreasing since the 1960s despite the population now being 300 million plus americans. but that isnt very convenient for your argument is it?
tell me how those restrictions are working in the states that have them…ill be waiting.
“Guns aren’t the problem, people are! We should just get rid of people and let guns live in our houses!”
you got the first part right. but once again, you are killing strawmen faster than you can prop them up. its actually quite hilarious.
“Source: WLCE, professional reasoner.”
one that seems to have unintentionally forgot more about reason that you will ever know.
I’m tired of this, WLCE. It is as simple as this: When psychopaths want to twist off there’s no better place for them to do it than the USA. Why? Because we’re awash in guns. You can try to (magically) explain how that doesn’t hold up, but it does. The correlation between the wide prevalence and easy availability of guns in this country and the rate of gun death/crime is not a mirage.
And this liberty stuff is tired. (Do you have a source on that Franklin quote? You guys love spurious quotes, especially the various versions of spurious Jefferson quotes.) I’m sure all those naive Japs, Brits, etc. are having hard times under their autocrats.
“I’m tired of this, WLCE.”
im tired of this too. im tired of some people thinking theyre entitled to punish me for the actions of a psychopath.
“It is as simple as this: When psychopaths want to twist off there’s no better place for them to do it than the USA.”
or they twist while theyre heads of a police state. what is the point? our founding fathers placed the 2nd amendment in the bill of rights because they wanted to give the people teeth against a potential tyrannical government. why? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions
“Why? Because we’re awash in guns.”
if this was the case, our violent crime rate would increased in proportion to the amount of guns supplied. despite increases in the supply of guns, violent crime has decreased. http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
“You can try to (magically) explain how that doesn’t hold up, but it does. ”
let me say this again, guns dont even constitute the top 10 causes of death, nor the top 25 causes of injury. if you have this big of a axe to grind with guns, id hate to see how you feel about other causes of death and injury.
“The correlation between the wide prevalence and easy availability of guns in this country and the rate of gun death/crime is not a mirage.”
if this was the case, then switzerland would be a no-mans apocalypse of death and destruction. its not.
like i said before, violent crime decreasing is a good thing. the advantages of private firearms ownership outweigh the disadvantages. but to you it is more sensible to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
“And this liberty stuff is tired. ”
LOL. liberty stuff tiring? well youll be utterly exhausted in a tyranny.
“(Do you have a source on that Franklin quote?”
yes i do, http://18thcenturyreadingroom.blogspot.com/2005/10/item-of-day-franklins-historical.html
http://www.bartleby.com/100/245.1.html
http://books.google.com/books/about/An_Historical_Review_of_the_Constitution.html?id=7dN5nxxSHC4C
“You guys love spurious quotes, especially the various versions of spurious Jefferson quotes.)”
that quote is not “spurious” it is documented and true. true firearms founding father quotes can be found here, http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndfqu.html and bogus quotes can be found here, http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndbog.html
“I’m sure all those naive Japs, Brits, etc. are having hard times under their autocrats.”
yes, they are http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/9063751/New-talking-CCTV-cameras-belong-in-a-police-state.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20715507
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2012/08/13/256090/post-games-uk-fullblown-police-state/
here’s some from japan, http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/asia-pacific/japan/120721/japan-fukushima-workers-urged-hide-radiation-levels-
i hate to cite wikipedia, but look at the citations http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Japan#Confessions
in a nutshell, britain and japan are perfect examples of “enlightened” police states. the united states is headed down that route.
i can provide countless other examples if you so desire.
They give time to morn for the family’s who lost love ones they dont use kids dead bodies as soap boxes like media and Democrats.
Maybe they’re just being decent human beings, something antis are incapable of being.
Absurd. This comment makes you look like a driveling fool.
You remind me very much of a previous tr0ll named after two colors.
Gotcha.
Hey, fellas, looks who’s back!
I’ve just read this entire thread to here and you have yet to make one remark that wasn’t snide or rude. I can understand being upset about what has happened, but you don’t need to be so mean to other people who are just as horrified about what happened as you are. The meaning of civil discourse is disagreeing with someone else and trying to provide sound logic to prove yourself. That is how you win a debate. Your approach seems to be to mock everyone here. With all your short sentences with ! at the end and words typed in ALL CAPS and words. Separated. By. Periods. all of your posts scream of emotion so all encompassing that you are having trouble thinking clearly. By all means though, mock me, too.
As a former “collector” can you tell me what all you used to own?
My response is just below. Should have put it here.
Hey, Kelly, thanks for the feedback. Your interpretation that my posts scream of emotion is incorrect. Yes, they do scream of being snide. Yes, they are often rude. (Though you must have noted that the rudeness wasn’t one sided?)
Did I go too far? Perhaps. It’s a rhetorical strategy. Gun rights advocates are so entrenched in their positions that, in my opinion, it’s time for a little bit of shock and awe in rhetorical strategies. And my conclusion isn’t based only on this forum. You clearly find this hard to believe, but I come from a staunchly pro-gun upbringing. Right in the heart of rural, gun-owning America. That’s no BS. In talking with two close family members today I was told that had people in the school been armed, this wouldn’t have happened. Now the solution is to arm our teachers? (Similar things said/implied in the discussion here.) I can no longer stand passively and hear this type of argument. When will we reach adequate gun saturation? At what point do we question why this fellow’s mom needed a Bushmaster and a couple of handguns? (I can already see all the feathers ruffling from here.) Is it really so nuts that we as a society say it’s time to curb all of this – including relinquishing our own personal desires a bit – in the interest of society? How many people’s first grade daughters need to be shot up?
Is the point that gun owners are dangerous maniacs? By no means. Is the point that this guy went off at an elementary school just because there were some guns handy? Nope. The creation of a psychopath is a complex process. The point is simply that when these f’ing nut jobs decide to twist off it is too damn easy for them to get their hands on serious firepower. Whether that be by raiding mommy and daddy’s collection or by purchase.
And I gather you don’t believe that I used to collect guns. Well, I did. (Or perhaps you supposed my guns wouldn’t merit being called a “collection”? In that case, maybe not. List below.) When my daughter was born I went through a period of deep introspection and decided that keeping and highly valuing instruments designed to take life wasn’t something I wanted to do anymore. Does that mean I’m a big old pinoche, a defenseless sitting duck? Maybe, but I can live with the tradeoff.
Guns I once owned:
Remington Model 700 7mm
Remington .223
Winchester 12 gauge
Benelli 20 gauge
Ruger .22LR rifle
Browning .22LR rifle
Ruger Mark III
Ruger 9mm
S&W .38 special
Browning .25 handgun
Russian made SKS
Chinese made SKS
Chinese made MAK-90
(all with multiple 30 round clips and bayonets)
I don’t agree with your stragedy; I think it failed. Instead of reason you spoke with emotion; and I don’t think it went far.
So, you did some thinking, and decided that guns were no longer for you. Fine; I won’t make judge you for that. Anyone can have a change of heart. I do have a question, though: do you think gun ownership can lead one to be homicidial? That somehow gun ownership causes a change in the owner? Also, if gun ownership isn’t for you, then do you know believe that it isn’t for anyone else either?
Any strategy I used would have failed on here. I was just plinking, so to speak.
Re: “Do you think gun ownership can lead one to be homicidial? That somehow gun ownership causes a change in the owner?”
I clearly stated above, No. Not at all.
Saying anything else is moot. Been a long day.
“Is it really so nuts that we as a society say it’s time to curb all of this – including relinquishing our own personal desires a bit – in the interest of society?”
relinquishing a amendment to the constitution is the reason why your arguments are met with hostility. believe me, the 2nd amendment justification responses from me are the TAME ones.
we had multiple infringements upon our liberty. recently we had the patriot act, military commissions act of 2006, Emergency Economic Stability Act of 2008, NDAA 2012, PPACA, and now there’s NDAA 2013 in the works.
there’s stuff like this that keeps getting brought up http://www.technologytell.com/in-car-tech/620/black-boxes-to-be-standard-on-all-cars-in-future/
and this http://www.guardian.co.uk/law/2012/dec/13/cia-tortured-sodomised-terror-suspect
that is why i take liberty so seriously. we are losing it fast.
…why in the name of all that’s holy did you need all those guns?
Thanks for a more tame response. Forgive anything that doesn’t quite make sense, as I’ve just gotten home from a great Christmas party.
If we could truly say that giving up arms would increase society’s well being, I would honestly consider it as a possibility. However, if you look at what governments are capable of, and how our voting populace is shifting, we are well ripe for totalitarian rule. The people of this country are discovering that they can vote themselves into “retirement” by age 30. It is not a good sign for us as a country to be so willing to submit freely to the government. Guns completely aside, the lack of personal responsibility in the country is alarming.
As for your decision to forgo your guns, I make zero judgements. I was discussing personal defense with a friend yesterday who felt that he was still too young and hot headed to own a pistol. I applauded him in his decision. It shows that he understands what being responsible for one’s self means. He didn’t think he could handle it, so he abstained from buying until a later date. Same response goes for you, is you feel that it isn’t worth it to you, then by all means, don’t. You’re free to make that call.
I could wholeheartedly agree with you if you said that there were too many irresponsible gun owners out there. However, I thinthat one is too many, so there. But firearm availability isn’t the real problem in our country. Firearms are no less if not more available in Atlanta, where I live than they are in Chicago. We have a violent sub culture in this country. That is the real issue.
As for this incident, I wrote quite a long piece in the article discussing the guns used about how useless I feel that gun free zones are. To sum it up, my mother is a public school teacher. She is a sitting duck for the next whack job if they so choose to go after her school. To parallel to the Aurora shooter had he chosen to be the Aurora hand grenade thrower, he could have killed more people, faster than he did. And he had the arsenal to do it.
I think the reason people here get so upset about gun control discussions is because we’re being lumped in with the worst of society because we own guns. You were there in the past as well. Your guns didn’t turn you crazy and get you to kill people.I know they make it easier, and they do. We all get that. It isn’t the point, though. The point is that we don’t like being considered guilty by association just for owning firearms. That’s the big issue. That and the realization that criminals will continue to commit crimes, regardless of additional restrictions. Now the UK wants to ban pointy knives because they have become the weapon of choice with the lack of guns. Now, deranged school killers would be easier to subdue with a knife than if they had a gun, but either way, we are currently leaving teachers and students basically unprotected and unable to defend themselves against any armed assault of any kind. That is my main argument in support of gun rights. We can’t stop people from being criminals before they commit crimes, so I choose to arm myself so I can stop any criminal who tries to victimize myself or my family. I shudder at the thought of dying cowering in the corner helpless. I will, however, gladly take my chances attempting to ward off evil from harming me. If I still die, then I guess the good Lord wanted me home anyway. I just view self defense of the most efficient method as too important to give up. Here’s a worldly example for you. Me giving up my right to self defense through firearms would be a microeconomic equivalent to the United States giving up it’s armies and allowing the United Nations to do it just because Iran did something atrocious with their army. Never.
Sorry I rambled, kinda tired. I lose my ability to be concise. going to happen. It would be irresponsible
My phone messed up. everything after going at the end should be directly behind the hanging”never”above.
“Me giving up my right to self defense through firearms would be a microeconomic equivalent to the United States giving up it’s armies and allowing the United Nations to do it just because Iran did something atrocious with their army.”
I actually find that to be a pretty interesting analogy.
Schools need armed guards. In Canada and the U.S., we take better care of bags of twenties, with armed CIT personnel. The hourly starting wage for an armed guard up here in Alberta is about ten bucks an hour–cheaper than a teacher’s aid. Right now, most schools in North America have less security than the typical shopping mall, which is utterly appalling. And a security guard would also prevent incidents like this:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/12/05/toronto-washroom-assault-school.html
We also need to take a hard look at the damage Spockian liberal-permissive, child-centred parenting has done. In Canada, school shootings were unheard of until 1975, when Michael Slobodian decided to shoot his teacher for giving him a bad mark. This incident prompted Bill C-51 (1977), which was Canada’s first major gun control act. Prior to C-51, Canadians could actually buy machine guns without background checks.
>Schools need armed guards
Great. But we need to go further. Because the targets were children (in other words, he didn’t shoot the school. The school doesn’t need to be guarded)
The high level point you’re making, I think, is that we need to protect children. Put an armed guard at the school, absolutely, but if some nutcase wants to shoot down some kids and make the news they’ll just do it somewhere else. So fine, we’ll fight these people as far as they want to go. Wherever there are children, there are armed guards. Boy Scout leaders need to be armed. Little League umpires could pack some heat. The teenage kid who works the door at Chuck-e-Cheese. Pay people $10 an hour to be armed vigilantes at playgrounds. Holding a birthday party? You need to hire an armed guard if more than, say, 10 children will attend. And don’t even get me started on why school bus drivers aren’t already required to be armed.
Is it going to take a lot of guns and a lot of armed people? Absolutely!!!!! Because innocent, defenseless kids are everywhere. That’s the message the NRA should be making.
Schools are a special case since children are, for all practical purposes, in the custody of the school administration and teachers, when they are at school. And we have guards (armed, or otherwise) in other public facilities, like malls and hospitals. So why not schools? Shootings are rare, but things like attempted abductions, drug-dealing on school property, and even (as in the link I posted above) sexual assaults by strangers in schools are real problems. And why do few schools even have CCTV cameras?
Adam: “Why don’t we…?”
Money. That’s why we don’t have guards, CCTV, etc. Money for actual teaching has been cut to the bone over the last 20 years, so there’s not likely to be money for stuff to prevent black swan events like this.
Public schools in North America don’t have revenue problems–they have spending problems. A basic CCTV system would cost about $1,000 per school. The per-student cost of public schools is about that of high-end private schools. Most of the money goes to things like covering pension liabilities for teachers. Here, in Alberta, the PCs kicked in billions to cover the liabilities of teachers’ pension funds, in exchange for five years of no strikes. And the Ontario Teachers Pension Fund is worth more than Microsoft. Until we get teachers’ unions out of the equation, school boards will keep whining about not having enough money. Wisconsin did the right thing, by pulling the rug out from under the unions.
Adam: Fair enough. Usually I keep my mouth shut when I’m not 100% certain (ok, at least 75%) of what I say. This is usually the result when I fail to abide by that rule.
Two days ago in China, a man hacked 22 children with a machete, On Dec 2, a son shot and killed his father with a bow and arrow, and killed his girlfriend with a knife. In Nebraska a student stabbed a fellow college student in the eye during a fight with a fork. My point as a grandfather of four from 2 weeks to 8 years old, this tragedy is almost unbearable to address….but we must address a society where there are no absolute rights or wrongs, where we call evil and sin, mental issues, where the video game with violence is substituted as a dad and mom, where children are not out in the woods or playgrounds but holed up in their room with dungeons and dragons, what do you expect America? It is not the gun, bow/arrow, knife, nor fork that just jumped up and went on a killing spree!
No it is the human being devoid of care, lacking a standard of right and wrong (because our brightest who call for gun control, state there are no absolute right or wrong, ask the parents of those precious children if there is a right or wrong) nurtured by a government that preaches it takes a village with no parental responsibility, nor responsibility on anyone’s part due to the moral decay of no right or wrong, all opinions or thoughts are OK.
America, think about what has happen, you cannot blame God, because we don’t believe in God or there are many gods (which one do you go to for help now?). No we have become a society that has rejected the fundamental foundation of our country, the security of our God in heaven and his son Jesus, not anything else was this country founded on, rewrite history all you want, but this is the truth! And the founders were not perfect, by any means as all men have sinned. This recent election showed how divided we are as a country.
White against black, republican against democrat, parents against children and children against parents….Matt 13:12 states in the last days “Brother will hand over brother to death; a father will hand over his child. Children will rebel against their parents and kill them”. Anarchy reigns when there is no absolute right or wrong, no foundation to teach our children nor for them to stand on, what do we expect America, we have to change and it starts by prayer to GOD in Heaven.
P.S. I am no dumb religious nut, but a 26 year combat veteran who served his country, nor am I uneducated, I earned a M.A.E.D and M.B.A., BS of Aeronautics, and earned a FAA license, so don’t write my opinion off as an uneducated religious person, I AM A GRANDFATHER and DAD who loves and prays for his children, pray for yours.
My condolences to the families who lost loved ones in this horrible, horrible event. This tragedy was unfortunately a false flag event meaning it was planned to turn out in a violent manner with death as the end result as was the event in the Portland Mall and the batman movie tragedy. If I am not mistaken all 3 shooters had body armour. Young men need help to obtain body armour.
These two shooters were more than likely narcosynthesized (drugged and hypnotised and they would not remember any part of it) to commit these atrocious heinous acts to stir up the debate once and for all to get our guns. Public opinion is the strongest way to achieve these means. Mob rule works in violent terms as well as in sympathetic terms. It is actually stronger in sympathetic terms as many are sucked into feeling sympathy and then anger to stop such travesties from happening again. Thus the public will push the “turn in your guns” plan.
We have been seeing these shooting increase over time. The Portland incident is the method the 2 boys in Columbine originally set out to accomplish their shooting spree and changed it to happening at the school instead. One of them, Klebold, or Harris wrote a “paper” for their, get this, Death Education class. The paper detailed a massacre taking place in a mall. Teenagers being taught about death in the beginning of their life. HUH??!! WTF is that all about. The point here is the public education system is teaching death in our schools and this is backed by the NEA, perhaps the worst union the US as they play a role in shaping young minds in the government school system. So the government has a role in all tragedies taking place in out schools allowing a psychiatric based class teaching DEATH to give the teen a head start on death.
President Obama delivered a solemn speech at the memorial service for the victims in Newtown tonight and he mentioned something needs to be done that is effective to stop the senseless violence. Well, he can start by doing away with all Death Education Classes, 2nd he can learn the truth about psychotropic drugs and their deadly side effects of violence and suicide. Most shooters were on these “meds” at the time of the shootings. It is when they don’t take them and their withdrawal effects that cause the most damage. This is fact. Deep depression and hostile acts are common side effects of antidepressants, antipsychotics, AD stimulants which are habit forming and narcotic unlike the lies fed innocent parents.
Last but not least is human compassion and understanding and granting the right to life to everyone no matter their idiosyncracies as people. Youngsters tend to tease the nerds and this makes them feel bad. They shouldn’t but that is a human frailty. Parents need to help their child instill a sense of confidence in their kids and help them build a solid foundation of self worth. The reason I state this is the press always learns the shooter was a loner or outcast and feels alone perhaps.
Unfortunately too many parents want their kids on meds as they can not deal with their child’s liveliness. I have had experience with everything I have stated here as I have met hundreds of parents and family members of kids who were put on these drugs and all regretted that they approved of the meds being given to the child. Many parents get SSI payments every month their kid is on the meds as a disability payment. It pays to be disabled and this is not living, this is dying. A medical crutch is not living. NO ONE NEEDS THESE MEDS TO LIVE, NO ONE! EVERY ONE I MET OUT OF SEVERAL HUNDRED REGRETTED THEY WERE ON THE MEDS-EVERYONE.
The unfortunate thing we have happening in the US and the rest of the world are agendas must be met to achieve plans and projects of the elite to keep the population controlled. One of the agendas is to get America’s semiauto weapons as they are the ones that give the people power over any kind of takeover or martial law. Pistols and shotguns aren’t that dangerous to military. The agenda is to create public sentiment against these weapons being owned, even if they are allowed by the 2nd amendment. The way to do that is to do what the young man did in Newtown Conn on Friday. Using a mind control method. The young man was already a prime candidate for the act. He didnt become evil overnight. Same thing for the shooter in Portland. Many will look at this post as total nonsense and bullshit. That’s expected when confronting the possibility of something so evil could be done. Have a new look at 911 and look at the evidence, and don’t listen to authority as they are only moving their mouth for your ears to hear. If you LOOK at the facts and the Truth, you shall understand and all of us Know the TRUTH shall set you free. Your heart and gut will tell you what is true and what the lie are. Our hearts intuitively know truth when we see it and hear it. Learn how to think for yourself instead of thinking the TV or the newspapers or the authority with the PH.D on the wall knows best. They only have an agenda they are trying to sell to keep their pitiful jobs of spinning the truth, even O’reilly spins the truth.
I shall end this post with wishes for a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Don’t let the powers that be take away your joy and happiness.
Big difference between killing or wounding one or two people with a knife, arrow, whatever and mass killing 20 innocent children. Who the F is so paranoid that they think they need assault weapons for protection. Get a grip. Are you that bad a shot that you need 100 rounds. In either case, you shouldn’t have your hands on any weapon. What kind of people wouldn’t give up their right to have something they don’t need to protect the safety of our children. You should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Disgusted: OK, I’ll play.
“Big difference between killing or wounding one or two people with a knife, arrow, whatever and mass killing 20 innocent children.”
No argument. The point is people will find an outlet for their crazy wherever they can. There is no denying that a guy with a knife (or at least that guy) is likely less lethal than a guy with a gun. By the same token, there’s no denying that a guy with a Ryder truck full of AN/FO is more lethal still. It’s all a question of degree.
“Who the F is so paranoid that they think they need assault weapons for protection.”
First of all, assault weapon is a made up term with no specific definition. I can take a rifle that you’d likely have no issue with anyone owning, and by changing just a few cosmetic parts that have nothing to do with function, make it look scary and eeeeevil. It will work no differently after the transformation. It’s a meaningless term. But, I’ll at least give you credit for not saying assault rifle, which does have a specific definition and is frequently used incorrectly in anti-gun vitriol. In any case, need is irrelevant, and there are any number of reasons, including protection, to own what you call an assault weapon.
“Are you that bad a shot that you need 100 rounds.”
One has nothing to do with the other. I can be a horrible shot with one round. I mean, I’m not… but I could be.
“In either case, you shouldn’t have your hands on any weapon.”
If I was a poor shot, and unworthy to have a weapon, how could I ever hope to improve to the level at which I would be worthy, if you don’t let me have one?
“What kind of people wouldn’t give up their right to have something they don’t need to protect the safety of our children.”
Again, need is irrelevant. The only things you need are water, food, and air. Are you willing to give up everything else in your life aside from those three things “to protect the safety of our children?” Speaking of which, what’s this “our children” stuff? I don’t have children. I don’t currently have plans for children. But if I did, I still wouldn’t “give up my right” to have my guns. I would make sure they were stored safely until they were old enough to learn about them, but I damn sure wouldn’t give them up just to placate you.
“Who the F is so paranoid that they think they need assault weapons for protection.”
I own semi-automatics simply because i can. that concept is called freedom. you should read about it sometime. Im not going to defend my countrymen against a tyrannical government with a bolt-action 22 if that is what youre suggesting. that is, after all, the primary purpose of the 2nd amendment.
The fact is that 1/6th of 1% of all gun crime is committed with so-called “assault weapons” (or weapons with magazines larger than 10 rounds). Im more concerned of dying in a car accident than i am criminals being armed with AK47s.
“Get a grip. ”
likewise. youre arguing with emotion. its time to have a rational, big boy discussion.
“Are you that bad a shot that you need 100 rounds.”
Nope. My last IWQ score in the US Army was a 40 with a average of 38/40 throughout my career. I think ive mastered marksmanship really well. I still own 30 round magazines for multiple platforms simply because “i can”. I dont like mags any bigger than that. Anybody who knows anything about guns knows that magazines above 30 rounds are very unreliable and are prone to stoppages. If I had a choice between 5x 20 rounders and a beta-c mag (100 rounds), ill pick the 20 rounders.
“In either case, you shouldn’t have your hands on any weapon.”
oh so youre now the arbiter of what i can or cant have my hands on? say it aint so. no thank you. kindly piss off. the 2nd amendment guarantees my right to have my hands on those kind of weapons. your right to swing your fist ends at my nose.
“What kind of people wouldn’t give up their right to have something they don’t need to protect the safety of our children. ”
LOL, ill say this again, for the 20th f–king time (statists pay attention!)
“those that give up essential liberty for little or no temporary safety deserve neither” -ben franklin-
we have already given up our 1st and 4th amendment rights by accepting abominations like the Patriot Act, MCA of 2006, and others. Im not excited about giving the state more rights. damn…its like we were forewarned against stuff like that…
“You should all be ashamed of yourselves.”
on the contrary. you should be ashamed of yourself for incorrectly applying the guilt by association mechanism. Oh do tell: have you actually donated time to communities? your children’s extracurricular activities? because i have and do regularly. I am also a law abiding gun owner and collector that owns many “scary” looking items that i keep secure in a state-of-the-art safe.
once again, thank you for the broad brush.
I don’t care to hear your logic or excuses. What a strange way to react to such a tragedy. Now I hear the AR-15 is flying off the shelves. How could anyone want that kind of reminder in their lives and what a terrible statement that makes to those families. I’m no stranger to the gun world. My father spent his life working for Winchester and Mossberg. He’d be disgusted just like I am to know what has happened and to hear you people react the way you are. I stand by my words……You people should be ashamed of yourselves.
And you should be ashamed of yourself for your blatantly biased, discriminatory, bigoted statements. The AR had nothing to do with the shooting other than it was the tool that the murderer chose to use.
Could have been gasoline, road flares and a timer. Guess you would rather them have died that way??!! Evil people will find evil ways to do that which they set out to do.
Damning a particular firearm or tool because someone used it to do harm is no better than saying all white people are racist because some of them owned slaves 100 years ago.
BTW: anytime you want to check out my particular skills with a weapon just let me know. My last weapons quals before I got out in 1996 were: M16A2-40/40 @ ranges from 50-400yrds. M9-40/40@25yrds. M1911-50/50@25yrds. M24(accurized Rem700 in .308)-50/50@ramges out to 600yrds.
And I shoot equally as well right handed. Still have my last set of range targets. Our Op’s NCO let us keep them.
Oh and one more just to make you happy: I qualified expert door gunner with an M60 MG in both the Huey and Blackhawk helo’s. (Secondary MOS was 67Tango Blackhawk Crewchief/Maintenance Repairman.
To sit and condemn or shame a person or group of people you know jack shit about makes you as bigotted, as biased and as discriminatory as the skinheads,KKK, or any of the other hate groups around for the last 50 or a 100 years!!
I apologize to the good people on here for my braggarts way and words but idiots like this person tend to irk me just a little.
Newtown CT is close to my home. My good friend’s neighbor lost his 6 year old son in that massacre. Why don’t you try to look at the pictures of the children who were the victims of the shooting while repeating your nonsense to yourselves? How about stating your excuses to the mothers whose children are dead from one of those beloved weapons? I don’t think they’ll give a damn about your 2nd amendment rights…and neither do I. The right of a community to not have to deal with this bullshit far outweighs it. Nobody is responsible enough to own those weapons. They are never safe enough and no amount of mental health intervention can predict the uncountable number of issues that could cause a stable person to snap. There are better things you could be doing to make the world a better and safer place. Get your priorities straight. Our children should expect us to be smarter and more responsible than this. What will it take for people to learn? Your stupid ass hobby just really isn’t that important, and neither is your right to do it. Get over yourselves!
Yet you apparently support the right of anonymous morons to spout venom on the internet. So you support the First Amendment, not the Second, do you mind if I quarter troops in your house?
One last thing: Nancy Lanza was a, supposedly “very responsible” member of your gun enthusiast community. Enough Said.
Disgusted: I don’t know if she was responsible or not. There has been no information released on how (or if) the firearms were secured in her home. However, it’s pretty hard to be responsible when you’re dead. You don’t really have a say at that point.
Stop making excuses and senseless explanations. They were HER GUNS. She was responsible for what led to the incident. That’s the point. Period.
God forbid we have explanations. I really hate explanations. Knee-jerk reactions that do nothing are so much more fun, don’t you think?
How is she responsible? SHE WAS DEAD, YOU TWIT. More to the point, how do you know she’s responsible? Do you have some magic 8-ball that tells you more than anyone else knows or has been publicly released?
I’ve noticed that you end virtually all your posts with things like “Enough said” and “Period.” A debate coach a long, long time ago told me that people who do that are generally trying to shore up a weak position by attempting to stifle further discussion. Is that why you do it? Because you know you have nothing whatsoever to offer to the conversation than reactionary emotions? I think so. Sorry, but we generally try really hard to keep things focused on facts and citations. You want raw emotion, Facebook is thataway.
You are correct. NONE. Don’t hold your breath. Anyway, the next convenient massacre is approaching.
They were debating which side they were on. I’m still not sure what they decided.
NRA is smiling and rubbing their hands together because they got another, “They’re going to take our guns away” scare. And NRA is raking in the cash.
Why does the NRA has to respond to such an event? It’s like blaming the AAA for not responding after somebody gets killed in a car crash. 35,000 men, women, and children are killed in car crashes every year and the AAA still supports, promotes, and glorifies the use of automobiles.
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