Disclaimer: the video below was released by an attorney and doesn’t show his client (the man in the yellow shirt with arms raised) actually being shot. As such, we don’t know what, if anything, he may have done to cause the cops on the scene to open fire. That said, from what’s available here, no one sympathetic to the Black Lives Matter movement is going to to be mollified by this. To say the least.
As the Miami Herald reports:
When a 23-year-old autistic man carrying a toy truck wandered from a mental health center out into the street Monday, a worker there named Charles Kinsey went to retrieve him.
A few minutes later the autistic man was still sitting cross-legged blocking the roadway while playing with the small, rectangular white toy. And Kinsey was prone on the ground next to him — a bullet from an assault rifle fired by a police officer having struck his leg.
This all seems to have happened after the shots were fired:
According to the North Miami assistant chief of police,
…officers received a 911 call indicating a man was in the street with a gun threatening to kill himself. They responded to Northeast 127th Street and about 14th Avenue and began barking orders. When the autistic man didn’t comply, an officer fired three times, striking Kinsey once in the leg. He was transported to Jackson Memorial Hospital.
Fortunately, Kinsey doesn’t appear to have been seriously injured. Other than that bullet in his leg, of course.
In an interview with WSVN-Channel 7, Kinsey said that after he was shot, officers approached and flipped him over and handcuffed him.
“Sir, there’s no need for firearms,” Kinsey told the news station he said to police before he was shot. “It was so surprising. It was like a mosquito bite.”
Kinsey said when he asked the officer why he fired his weapon, the cop responded, “I don’t know.
As you’d expect, the incident is under investigation. And if this report is accurate, the North Miami PD’s not proud of what happened.
By Wednesday, (Kinsey’s attorney Hilton) Napoleon said he was already negotiating a possible settlement with the city of North Miami.
“They realize this was something inappropriate regarding the shooting,” he said. “If police departments come out more and admit fault, that would probably go a long way,” toward improving relations with the public, he said.
Given recent events, it’s not unreasonable to expect beat cops to be cautious, if not downright nervous these days. But it appears that the cops involved are extremely fortunate that this incident didn’t result in one or two dead citizens.
Black lives mattering is definitely relevant. You can’t delete in good faith here
It’s the racist twins! Again and again! Don’t you have some rallies to get to? Some racist comments to shout.
Actually I do. I’m going to a rally to support the second amendment. Just kidding my weiner isn’t tiny!
Sooo… if fighting to protect civil rights makes your weiner tiny, you might be like.. inverted, right?
blacklives. thank you for supporting the right to keep and bear arms in America. It’s all about numbers. Since you’re posting clicks on a pro gun site your comments will be numbered amongst the pro gun when a congressman or senator is shown the numbers against gun control.
If you truly are for gun control you’re actually working against yourself by posting here. Thank you.
Hurr hurr hurr. Racist man make penis joke. He big smart.
While you have correctly found a thread that aligns with your desired conversation I would still encourage you to join the conversation. Not just drop an overused hashtag repeatedly.
Also, if you take the time to read through the comments on threads similar to this you will likely find much more critical talk about the police than you will anything specifically targeted at the race of the victims. There is a strong focus here on changing the way law enforcement handles it’s business. To the benefit of all, including black lives.
While ignoring the problem of race in this country. Yeah you’re making a difference.
“…the problem of race in this country.”
why is race in this country a problem?
“Black” people killed by police last year: 250
“White” people killed by police last year: 468
“Black” people killed by other “black” people last year: 2,500
@ Ebby123
Where did you get those numbers from? Last I saw all three numbers were higher than that. Not trying to be an ass. I am genuinely interested in the source for comparison. Thanks.
We don’t have a race problem. We have a half black president and all those wonderful cities are run by black democrats.
FBI statistics – though now that I look at it, it appears to be from 2014.There’s not 1 consolidated place, you have to do a little digging around.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/
Thanks for following up. 2014 would explain it. It’s all about the digging.
Isn’t your whole point that we should ignore race?
I never said anything about ignoring race in that comment. From what limited information we have about this incident so far it appears that race had nothing to do with it. So unless more evidence comes out about the motives of the officer then the person who got shot might has well have been a pink unicorn. If some recording surfaces about this officer spewing racial epithets or similar evidence then you have one more ally. Each specific case treated with the same respect. Sometimes race was a factor and that fact should not be ignored. Sometimes race had nothing to do with it and should not be acknowledged.
In general though yes, I fight for equality by ignoring race and correcting those that don’t.
Normally I don’t feed trolls, but today is a good day, so why not?
What are “Ypur Guns” anyway?
Black rifles matter too, so I recommend them for protecting those black lives mentioned in your handle. One can find lots of black accessories for those black rifles as well, such as black red dot sights, black scopes, black slings, black magazines and black angled foregrips.
Black pistols might be in order as well.
You might be able to find some black ammunition for those black rifles, but I don’t know who sells any. Browning does sell 9mm pistol ammunition that is black.
I must say you’ve picked a very slimming color.
Any questions?
You misspelled you user name. Shouldn’t have dropped out in the 6th grade.
I’m a white guy who has experienced white privilege many times and now I’m starting to get pissed. Was accosted in Birmingham Alabama once and forced to unconstitutional search of my car. Now I love cops and have many as friends, but there really needs to be some housecleaning and honest reflection about their beliefs of who’s expendable and who’s not.
Here’s the deal. Cops need to abide by the law even when angry, pissed, and scared. Period. If they place their lives above those they are sworn to protect and serve, then we have a problem.
Houston….and Dallas…”We have a problem.”
Well, if it’s “privilege” to be able to walk down the street unmolested by the State, then by all means revoke it. The only fair and just way to handle the situation is for the State to harass ALL of its Citizens. No more privilege! Stop and Frisk for everyone!
Or, you could call it a Right to be left alone. Call it Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness, and fight for the rights of those who are disenfranchised, rather than castrating yourself by calling it a privilege of which you are unworthy.
I’m guessing someone shouldn’t have had their finger on the trigger. My guess the shooting was an accident.
Sounds like a big paycheck.
One more reason I don’t like open carry. Some fool calls in a man with a gun.
Three shots? Select fire? That’s just wrong there. I want my rights back!
“One more reason I don’t like open carry. Some fool calls in a man with a gun.”
Straw man of the year goes to Jack on TTAG, 7/21/2016.
What the ever-loving HELL does “Open Carry” have to do with this story? The man was playing with a SMALL, WHITE TOY TRUCK?
People have called in “Man with a Gun” for someone carrying an umbrella.
White truck. Umbrella. BB Guns. SWATting someone doing NOTHING AT ALL IN THEIR OWN HOME….
So, the conclusion is that people can call in a “Man with a Gun” for whatever the heck they want to use their warped synapses to interpret as a gun.
Open Carry has nothing to do with it.
OC is the quickest MWAG call you will get. That’s his point.
Yeah, no.
Folks OC all over the country without getting MWAG calls. Few folks notice.
How many legit OC-ers got MWAG called on them last year? Any idea?
People calling 911 with MWAG calls over kids brandishing bb guns probably happen more than holstered OC weapons get.
SWATtings might even happen more.
Prove me wrong, though. Would love to see the data on all those OC-ers getting 911 called on ’em. Just for grins, let’s stick to legally carried pistols. How many of those ya got?
I open carry 365 days a year. If MWAG calls were so prevalent for open carry, odds are I would’ve been shot by now. I have many friends that also open carry every day in various parts of the state and country; same experiences. The only MWAG calls we USED to be subjected to were when local powers-that-be did not like open carry, and sometimes just carry in general. Once the local police and government realize that it is a right and they cannot stop and harass you for it, the MWAG calls miraculously cease to ever happen again. Many times, public records requests showed no complainant in the first place. Funny, that.
Not an accident, If you are putting your finger on the trigger, but are not actually going to shoot, you should be charged with aggravated assault.
I was being kind with it being an accident.
JR_in_NC your an ass.
I was making the point people call in man with a gun. In this climate your chances of getting shot are pretty high. This shooting started with a call with a man with a gun.
Open carry is constitutionally protected. “Shall not”. Just because you can doesn’t mean it’s a good idea.
If you “do not” then you won’t be able to down the road. Free people are armed. Cowards and slaves are not. Which one are you, Jack?
For answering your shot at open carry in an unrelated story? If it was meant to be sarcasm or satire, he missed it, as did I. You can’t hear sarcasm over the internet, so I’ll introduce you to Poe’s Law,
in other words, nobody knows you’re kidding.
Ah, but he wasn’t kidding. He doubled down.
“I was making the point people call in man with a gun.”
Source?
So, when does it happen? As I said above, OC happens all over the country and people don’t call in MWAG.
This facts of this case, however, HAVE happened before…totally unrelated thing happening gets called in as ‘man with a gun.’
If you are going to make an assertion that somehow OC is now or is going to in the future increase MWAG calls or OC is going to be more dangerous, all I’m am asking for is to please back it up with SOME kind of data.
You know, data…that pesky little thing I often insist on that gets epithets thrown my way.
^^^—- Reply meant for Michael_in_GA
Why me? Sure that wasn’t for Matt in FL? Or Jack? My question was, if it was an ND, how could you have a three shot ND unless you are using a select fire rifle in burst mode. That’s not a good thing there. Nobody is talking about that.
“Why me? Sure that wasn’t for Matt in FL? Or Jack?”
AHHHHH…I’m just full of all kinds of ‘win’ today.
Yes; meant for reply under Matt. I completely misread that! Sorry dudes; both of you. Guess I gotta chip in for some of the ammo, now. {grin}
So, I meant it as a reply to Matt in regard to “he might be kidding.” At least I don’t think Jack is kidding since he doubled down, rather than saying something like “Sarcasm, dude, you don’t have it.”
The meat of the reply was to Jack, though.
I usually do better than that with the first cup of coffee. Dang it. There’s my allowed total cock-up for 2016 and I’ve still got 5+ months to go.
(Thanks for keeping me honest…man, that was bad!)
I concur. Trigger discipline issue very likely. Better for everyone if he fessed up. If that is what happened.
That said, if there wasn’t a real problem between cops and blacksbefore, there is now and this won’t help. Cops have good reason to be afraid. If this keeps up, so will innocent blacks.
The problem is Clinton, inc wants this. They will continue to fuel it.
I honestly think that Black Lives Matter wants to fix a real problem, and not just elect Clinton, they need to back off. Seek your voice being heard in other ways
If you can’t see it, Clinton is reaping the benefits of the lives you lose. She does not want this to end until she is in the White House. Do you honestly believe THAT will make Black Lives Mattet? Did Obama make it better or worse?
Don’t look to D.C. Look to your neighbor.
Every time a little sympathy for cops blossoms deep down in my gut (Dallas and Baton Rouge), a video like this shortly comes along and extinguishes the sympathy.
It will be interesting to get the full story. My gut tells me that the police officer did not intend to shoot, that he likely had his finger on the trigger when he shouldn’t have. (Lack of training I presume?) Anyhow, I am pretty sure lawyers are going to make some money off of this.
Actually that just makes the problem worse.
Guess I did. Thanks for reminding me.
Have no fear, the police union and assorted hangers-on will be johnny on the spot to not just blame the victim, but to libel him in defense of the cop who shot him. It’s simply SOP.
The victim is ALWAYS wrong, NO MATTER WHAT.
*opens third bag of cheetos*
Well you see, the officer was in fear for his life – this guy was waiting in the classic “ambush” position on his back with his head off the ground.
If he didn’t want to be shot, he should have kept his head on the ground. Trust me, I watch a lot of TV, I KNOW how this works.
/sarc
Seriously, I am deeply committed to giving the justice system time to run its course, but this REALLY doesn’t look good.
“*opens third bag of cheetos*”
Channeling Glenn Beck again?
Lol.. and there was a time I actually used to like him. What a schmuck.
The officer should be fired. More training, more training, more training. AR has a safety for a reason, use it, practice it. Get these officers training and test them. No excuse for this. As the threat becomes escalated and the police become more militarized they need training and better equipment.
None of the LAPD and Torrance PD cops who tried to slaughter the paper delivery women and the surfer were fired. I doubt this guy will be either. “We were scared.” is hardly a better excuse than “I don’t know.” and they got off scot free.
“Officer safety” trumps all else.
Needless to say, this victim will be treated like garbage just as were Emma Hernandez, Margie Carranza and David Perdue.
Fired? What would happen to someone not a police officer had they fired that shot?
Getting fired would be the least of your worries.
But if you’re a cop, all you have to worry about is whether your boat engine is working. Paid vacation time!
Officer gets fired. We would get 10 years. Nice immunity they have over there.
Cop pulling a gun on a suspect is fine (with reason). Putting the finger on the trigger without justification to shoot, aggravated assault. Shooting person by “accident”, attempted murder. Nice and simple.
“if anything, he may have done to cause the cops on the scene to open fire”
Yeah, he interfered with the cops aiming at the autistic man armed with a toy truck so they shot him.
You’re obviously a “cop hater”!
It’s clear from the video that the victim was aggressively lying on his back with his hands in the air, a clear threat to the officers. If not shot, he could have signaled to an accomplice… or cast a evil spell on them.
It has nothing to do with color….well other than the cop was extra scared of the black man and failed to keep his finger properly indexed. Undoubtedly, the cop fired his weapon unintentionally, or otherwise, a negligent discharge.
The officer who fired the shot should be fired as an example to other officers to use their brains and keep their finger OFF THE freaking trigger like they were taught in training.
you may not be too far off base. the cop may have an increase in irrational fear due to, i don’t know, the recent murders of cops by proponents of BLM.
I am an officer. The officer who shot this guy needs to be not only fired, but criminally charged also. It’s not hard to maintain trigger discipline.
It is when no one in the department cares. I see it all the time, Cop draws gun and finger is on the trigger. Hands in the air and finger still on trigger. Make it a crime (obviously department policy is not working) and we “may” see a change
Trigger discipline my a$$. Those firearms shouldn’t have ever left their normal resting positions. Why the fuck are cops pointing firearms at these people.
Could not agree more. Unless the officers were being actively threatened by a suspect with a gun they have no reason to be pointing a rifle at either man.
How does one “accidentally” pop off three shots? One shot, that might be poor trigger discipline. Three shots, you’re trying to shoot somebody.
Your observation does indeed provoke a curious question. I wonder if they have select fore weapons?
I was shooting a Colt SMG a week ago which you probably know is a select fire weapon. If it was in full auto and I squeezed the trigger….well you understand what I’m saying. I’m sure all will come out. But the officer clearly fu—ed up and I suspect will be fired.
Can we just stop posting cellphone videos until we know the facts? How many more times to we have to go through the Michael Brown routine before we learn this. Not only does this stir up hatred, it desensitizes people to the point that they will ignore evidence of actual bad shoots.
I wish TTAG would adopt a no video without facts policy.
This happened Monday night. Today is Thursday. Most of the facts we, as the public, will get are already out there. If you would have looked at any of the news sites, you would have seen more info is available than “just the video, so I think your comment about TTAG posting it are uncalled for. The remaining info we don’t have is because the law enforcement agencies investigating it are withholding it (and don’t expect to hear any of it for a long, long time.)
This isn’t CSI where they get all the facts in 24, 48 or even 72 hours. I didn’t say don’t write about it. I said don’t post video. Cellphone videos always start well into the action. You don’t have while story or the context.
Good luck in your quest to control the Internet tdiinva.
That is one of thedumber statements lately. Just because people put inverted stuff out on the internet doesn’t mean that TTAG has to follow suit.
Most cell phone videos have been helpful. It is up to the viewer to keep things in context. Take the Alton Sterling video for instance. Clearly justified. The cops were not beating on him which may cause you to fight back. They were trying to hold him down and disarm him. He tried to get to the gun that was in his pocket before the cop could get it. That’s a gun fight.
That vid is so easy to decipher, the DOJ is going to sit on their decision to not prosecute for a good month or two so the “outrage” can coincide with the election. But I don’t believe the decision took more than 10 minutes.
Pretty much cut and dry which is what is so frustrating with these protesters. I beg them to choose legitimate cases of police misconduct. Makes you doubt their agenda. Know what I mean?
I don’t doubt the agenda of the paid agitators. I’ve met some of them and demonstrated with them in the early days of BLM. This is about special privilege and bringing about socialism/communism in full bloom
No. That would be a bad move. How long will it be until we know the facts? Weeks? Months? Years? This video and the news story is out there. Other sites posted it even before TTAG, including Glenn Beck’s “The Blaze” and local news. If it wasn’t, the police would be able to sweep it under the rug. Getting these videos out there keep pressure on law enforcement to at least attempt (or appear) to properly investigate and notify the public.
Maybe we’ll be able to get some complete dash cam footage of the event now.
And how long before we do know more from the police investigators? Blue lives matter just as much as black, but note how fast the police are to figure out what happened when one of theirs get shot. Another headline today: “A 20-year-old man was charged Thursday with capital murder in the death of a Kansas City, Kansas, police officer…” Hopefully he gets life or the death penalty, as he deserves if guilty. Note the timing: Officer was killed July 19th. Suspect captured in Missouri, extradited to Kansas and charged with crime within 3 days. I’m sure the full investigation is ongoing, but I’m also sure it will not take months and months, like it does when an officer shoots a civilian. And they already have enough evidence to file a charge against this civilian who shot an officer after 3 days.
A cell phone video is itself a set a of facts (unless it’s been tampered with). More facts are better, but that’s no excuse for ignoring the facts that are available. We will never have “all” the facts for a given incident, just a smaller or greater number of them.
I just be missing something. I can’t find where the article mentions what the officer’s bail is set at.
The officer has been suspended, pending the outcome of an investigation by the Florida Department of Law Enforcement. I do not recall any other similar instances of the FLDE investigations to know how impartial they are (i.e. do they tow the thin blue line).
FYI. In Florida, I do believe that individual PDs have the option to have the FDLE investigate or to investigate themselves. As the PD stated that this is an outside investigation, then I am sure it is the FDLE that is investigating.
Where are you getting that
(a) FDLE is doing the investigation
and
(b) He has been “suspended”?
Gotta link with some updated info?
Cuz The Herald story published yesterday says:
(a) “Assistant Police Chief Neal Cuevas said the investigation has been turned over to the Miami-Dade State Attorney’s Office.”
(seems like a “local” investigation in the sense it’s still Miami-Dade)
(b) “Police still hadn’t released any paperwork or the incident report of the shooting by Wednesday. There is no indication that a weapon of any kind was found. The officer who fired his weapon has been placed on administrative leave, as is standard, for at least a week.“
You got something updated/newer?
SLAM!!!
Excellent point.
He’s on “Administrative Leave” for one week, according to The Herald.
That’s what we’d get if we were there doing that shooting, right? A week of “light duty” at our job?
THIS is the sort of thing even non-BLM types are PO’d about with cops. It’s special treatment. If they’d charge us, they should charge him.
Let the ‘system’ work it out as it is supposed to…Prelim Hearing, Grand Jury and if it gets that far, Trial.
+1.
Instead of BLM, it should be more about police being too quick to shoot and not being held responsible for their actions, regardless of the ethnicity of the member of the public involved. Many think the police should be held to a higher standard than the general public, since they are supposedly trained and are given the authority to stop, detain, arrest, and, if need be, shoot members of the public. But, instead, it is the opposite. They are held to a much lower standard than any member of the public firing a gun or killing someone. The North Miami Police Chief, said the following will happen once the state’s FDLE investigation is over: “At that time, we will conduct our own investigation and review all the evidence to determine whether the actions of the shooting officer constitute a criminal act that can be proven beyond and to the exclusion of every reasonable doubt.” So…the same old same old…the police will not only investigate their own, but decide guilt and innocence. Isn’t that a higher standard than what is used to charge members of the public with a crime? Isn’t the latter, determining guilt or innocence, the juries job?
Black Lies Matter: “We’re Black so you have to believe ANYTHING we say. If you don’t, you’re a racist!”
Police unions: “We’re cops so you have to believe ANYTHING we say. If you don’t, you’re a cop hater!”
Different sides of the same counterfeit coin…
And us peasants are just caught in the middle.
OBEY. CONSUME. THIS IS YOUR GOD. REPRODUCE.
Yep.
You’re starting to figure out the carny game. One thing most people never see is the influence of the police unions behind the scenes in the state legislatures. You will never almost never see the faces of the cop lobbyists on TV or know their names. The cop unions constantly provide legislative language that allows them to kill citizens, cover it up, and escape prosecution. Their is no greater threat to the rule of law and the Constitution than the police unions influence in the legislature to advance the legal infrastructure for a criminal police state where cops are totally above the law. Their partners in this are the good old boy legislators from small towns and the NRA.
When it came time for Illinois to pass a carry bill in 2013, NRA contract lobbyist Todd Vandermyde led off putting Duty to Inform with criminal penalties in Rep. Brandon Phelps “NRA backed” concealed carry bill, because the IL Chiefs of Police wanted it. When the “Chicago Machine” Black Caucus Democrats pushed back, Phelps re-wrote the Duty to Inform in his shit bill to “upon the request of the officer.”
To this day Vandermyde claims a great victory to the NRA members that are stupid enough to buy his lies. Vandermyde wrote the bill with Ohio style DTI right off the bat. If Chris Cox & Chuck Cunningham continue to pay him, then you know that NRA, Inc. profits off the worst gun laws possible that allow cops to set up and kill their members, because it creates job security for lobbyists like Vandermyde to “fix” the shit bills they push that are written by anti-gun police unions.
Not only this, but in Michigan LEOs are held to a lower standard to carry a gun than a non-LEO getting a CPL. There are cops in Michigan who by law cannot qualify for a concealed pistol license, yet wear a badge and carry a gun.
Agreed. Some cops are scared of their own shadow at this point. I would not of even had a weapon drawn on these two dudes. But the again, I’m not a scared cop living in their echo chamber. The peace officers of old would have walked right up to these two and found out what was going on without hiding behind lamp posts and firearms. Wusses, plain and simple.
“Hands up don’t shoot” redux. Except this time, unlike the Mike Brown case, it seems for real.
Maybe the 911 caller couldn’t tell the difference between a gun and a toy truck, since no gun was found except for the one wielded by the officer. Maybe Officer Friendly humped the bunk and shot himself out of a job. Maybe the city will be out $100K or more when it writes Mr. Kinsey a check. We’ll see.
Self fulfilling prophecy I fear…
Create a war on cops, and sooner or later they start getting legitimately trigger-happy.
Not an excuse, just an observation of possible secondary causes to this incident.
I have a severely autistic nephew. The stimming and lack of awareness displayed is very common. I suspect Mr officer having no exposure to this type behavior was nervous and had his finger where it did not yet belong. With the result being an accidental discharge.
Do the police have select fire rifles with burst mode setting?
“…an officer fired three times”
Where’s the rest of the video?
Also, isn’t the cop with the rifle a black guy?
As a father of an autistic child, these are the kind of stories that just plain piss me off.
“…officers received a 911 call indicating a man was in the street with a gun threatening to kill himself. ”
Hey dumbass 911 caller, if you don’t see a gun – DON’T TELL THE FREAKING POLICE SOMEONE HAS A GUN. And how the hell can you say that someone is about to shoot themselves if you can’t see a gun.
The 911 caller needs to be arrested for making a false report. The police department needs to re-visit their training in these scenarios. Hey, if there’s no rush MAKE SURE THEY HAVE A GUN BEFORE SHOOTING! Damn it Jim, they make binoculars, sights for your AR, use them to see what you can’t plainly see.
There was NO reason to rush this. The police department is lucky no one got killed.
Couldn’t agree more.
The thing that always gets me is…
“wait don’t kill yourself or I’ll shoot you!”
Noone else see how idiotic that is?
Yeah but a suicidal person is also a homicidal person… or something… listen, just…. REASONS, OK?
This was a big fear of mine. For the last 3 years before I retired I was working as a driver transporting disabled folk from point a to point b. I ran the gamut from pre schoolers going for speech and hearing therapy to inmates at county jails being transferred to mental health custody.
During that time I had folk break out of or attempt to take over my vehicle and had to pursue or fight depending on the circumstances. Struggling with an autistic teenager in traffic when the cops show up can lead to tense moments til things get sorted.
Fortunately the bay area cops never responded guns drawn as a first option.
I hope they didn’t see any illegally carried revolvers.
Or retarded (oops “autistic”) trolls with a Not Your Dad’s Peace Officer shirt on…
You used the wrong account.
I wonder if only one officer fired the three rounds, or if there was “contagious fire” with one officer mistakenly popping off a round thanks to crappy trigger discipline and others firing by reflex at the sound of the gunshot
If it were “contagious fire”, I would expect a lot more than three shots. Usually, when that happens, everybody involved keeps blasting away until the guns are empty.
Only one cop is on admin suspension, so only one cop fired.
Good point re: three shots vs. the fusillade that accompanies contagious fire. And yes one suspension certainly supports the one shooter argument.
If this was a case of an accidental discharge, the officer should be fired and charged with at least the first degree misdemeanor version of culpable negligence under Florida law.
Ҥ 784.05. Culpable negligence.
(1) Whoever, through culpable negligence, exposes another person to personal injury commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
(2) Whoever, through culpable negligence, inflicts actual personal injury on another commits a misdemeanor of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.”
The numbers above about how many white people vs black people were shot this year don’t take into account that blacks are 12.3% of the population. This makes their woundings or deaths disproportionate to whites.
The number of blacks that shoot each other isn’t relevant. The number of meth heads that are white isn’t relevant. The number of old people who die of old age isn’t relevant.
There would be no BLM if this stopped and clear investigation and acquittal or conviction happened. The shootings keep being defended by people who aren’t threatened by these blacks. Obviously there is a thin blue line. Retired cops admit it.
If you really feel this is supposed to be Liberty and Justice for All then why not support clear handling of this or at least be passive. Some blacks are over the top and spew venom. Seems like someone of every color does that. Some blacks are straight up career criminals and the laws keep letting them out. The ones doing the killing make up 1.5% of inner city residents.
Funny thing is many of us know what it’s like to be harassed because you were a high school or college driver. Cops without cause pulled you over to see if you’d been drinking. Then you get to a certain age and you know those old white hairs leaving that reception or the golf course in their Oldsmobiles are severely lit. Cops pull them over? Not til they weave.
This isn’t being investigated by the same PD internally. the reports I have seen said that is has been referred to an external investigator. Which is most likely the Florida Department of Law Enforcement (FDLE). Local PDs in florida have the option of internal investigations or to have the FDLE investigate externally. I am not sure where the FDLE stands on the “thin blue line” though.
Again, as I asked above, what is your source that it has been turned over to the FDLE? The Herald article linked (published) yesterday said M-D State Attorney’s office.
Is the State’s Attorney ‘linked’ to FDLE in some way? That would seem a bit odd to me.
Did the Herald get it wrong, or has it just changed houses?
As of a couple hours ago, the Miami Herald said the FDLE. That probably doesn’t mean the local DA isn’t investigating as well.
Okay. Cool.
Thanks.
It makes sense to go through FDLE, I just thought it interesting what the Herald’s story yesterday said.
“The numbers above about how many white people vs black people were shot this year don’t take into account”
Numbers are numbers…they never take anything “into account.”
You are arguing whether it is more appropriate to use actual numbers vs rates per population.
The numbers as quoted don’t lie about anything. The number of white people shot by police does, in undeniable fact, exceed the number of black people shot by police.
If you are going to argue that the rate per population is “disproportionate” (to use your word), you have to examine why that might be true.
Systemic racism is only one possible answer to that, and it has been controlled for in serious studies…and found to not exist.
So, the prudent, intellectually honest thing to do is to examine other reasons for a ‘disproportionate’ rate.
Wow. Okay. I’ll go there. There is no racism.
Cops shoot people. They shoot people at times when they don’t need to. Once is too many. Often is way too many. Cops aren’t shooting more people now. Technology is showing what poor people have been saying for decades. That cops have been going to def con 1 easily. They get themselves deep in a situation then can’t or won’t retreat and don’t feel safe so they shoot. They are correct and the people are correct. Since they are paid to serve and protect they can keep it calm as long as they want to. Unless the citizen is endangering others, what’s the rush.
I can’t offer a persuasive argument if you believe that a segment of the population meaning poor should receive different treatment than their richer neighbors.
We need to throw the book at cops who COMMIT CRIMES.
Imagine if a stupid, worthless peasant did this instead of a glorious member of the warrior caste?
So pending the investigation, and cop’s paid leave what will happen? Give the guy some cash? I wish he would sue the individual who shot him as well. That individual should also be in prison, he doesn’t get more rights than us when he pops off for no reason.
At first I was suspicious about the edited video but then it kinda makes sense that it is harder for the cop to spin a lie to fit the video if he doesnt have the video.
Gosh darn it he may actially have to tell the truth. More likely he’ll clam up.
Maybe its bad to say but I hope they come down on this cop hard if this shooting was as ridiculous as it looks. If nothing else to appease all the BLM folks as to say “hey look we do hold officers accountable for wrong doing”.
Too late to come down hard. He should have been arrested and charged already.
Does Miami have bodycams so we can hear the “Oh sheet” moment when he realizes he banged the beagle?
…Or if no bodycams can we just move straight ahead with the proper assumption that the PD is rogue and righfully deserves all the heat it gets.
“You don’t understand. It’s a hard job. It’s very stressful. You can’t second guess a cop just trying to get home safe.” amidoinitright?
I don’t see anything about race here. I see bad training, bad judgement, a bad shoot, and a clear danger to the community allowed to continue.
Get that, the city and even the Assistant Chief of Police have said that this officer fired on a seated, unarmed, mentally disabled man. He not only fired on him, but missed and hit his, by all accounts, compliant caretaker who was next to him lying on the ground with his hands up. How on earth is this man allowed to walk the streets? He is a clear danger to others. He needs to be behind bars.
And all this with a select fire M16. WTF?
Can somebody confirm this and can we challenge the legality of it? Do beat cops get all the toys and we don’t? Cops are civilians, correct?
In Texas, training for new license to carry trainers is conducted at the DPS (state police) compound north of Austin. It’s a week long program and goes into far more detail than regular licensees get, including training on how officers contol citizen contacts via body language and tone of voice.
It’s interesting material, but is probably seriously past due for an update. For example, this country is getting older and older and more people will endure Alzheimer’s disease. A patient having an episode could appear crazy, aggressive, or certainly not compliant.
Similarly, this country is getting fatter and fatter and more people will develop Diabetes. (I know, weight is not the sole factor involved. I’m hitting the high points, not submitting a paper to JAMA.) A person in diabetic shock could appear intoxicated or high and all that comes with that. Police are going to need to learn new communications skills to deal with these kinds of encounters as the population changes.
This is absolutely a training issue. I’ve worked a lot of scenarios where trainees are taught to “use your command presence” or their “cop voice” but the training often doesn’t address what to do when the subject doesn’t understand, can’t think rationally, can’t hear, or can’t speak. So many officers interpret the lack of understanding as resistance and act accordingly. Once the can of whoop ass is opened things go to the ultimate end all too often. I got into law enforcement pretty late in life and I’ll celebrate 25 years with my department next month. I can count the number of times I’ve drawn down on somebody on one hand and I’m happy to say that I’ve never fired a round at anybody on duty. I have gotten into a few fights but at my advanced age of 64 I try to avoid getting physical just because I don’t heal very quickly. Over the years I’ve learned to be patient with people and I really try to understand where they’re coming from. Would I drop the hammer on somebody if I had to? Absolutely, but like the line from the movie, when you kill a man you’ve taken all that he has.
More law enforcement is done when officers get out of their cars, take off the Oakley tactical sun glasses, put away their smart phones, and talk to people. I shake hands with people even though the experts say that I’m putting myself at a tactical disadvantage. I talk to people and ask them what I can do for them. I listen to all of the stupid questions and try my best to answer. Yeah, I’m the old easy going guy but I’ve learned that law enforcement is 90% people skills which are sadly lacking in so many folks.
Been a while since I’ve commented but was it impossible to pull out a set of binoculars and see what the guy was actually holding? Or maybe through the scope of the rifle you are pointing at a dude laying on the ground with his hands in the air? Outstanding job as usual.
If you’re going to riot-THIS may be the ONE all you black lives splatter groupies…
John in Ohio
I carry concealed. ALWAYS armed.
Open carry in the current environment is a poor choice.
Open carry in the Denver Metro is a great way to end up on the front page…dead. In this current environment it’s a poor choice.
Coward… I was probably carrying a rifle in Vietnam before you were born.
Hey man, the choices were free, coward, or slave. I never picked which one… you focused in on coward. I don’t know you well enough to call you yellow.
Do you carry concealed under the authority of a permit? If you do then you are exercising a privilege afforded you by government and not the right. I carried all of my life, mostly concealed. However, when Ohio started licensing concealed carry in 2005, I decided to exercise my right to bear arms openly since they declared my previous mode of carry a privilege. In Ohio, the only way one can legally exercise their individual right to bear arms is to do so openly.
If you are being oppressed in Denver and cannot exercise your right openly, then you have some work to do. I and many others did the heavy lifting here in Ohio.
I currently carry concealed with a permit. Since 2003. However I have always carried.
Having survived a gunshot wound to the chest at 19 (Vietman) I have no desire to try it in my mid 60’s. Frankly I’m not sure I would make it.
Tactically concealed carry is an advantage. Always cheat, always win.
Open carry in an urban environment is; don’t go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things. Open carry in the national forest doesn’t raise any eyebrows. I have open carried in the mountains in the appropriate setting.
Why do we have to make the cops job harder than it is? Some bad ones yes. Most are good. I see the problem as a training one. Police are to quick to shoot. They didn’t use to kills dogs. They used to use people skills more than the firearms. Law enforcement is going to have to address the problem at some point.
Can you imagine the anarchy without police?
Frankly whenever I have the opportunity I approach the police and thank them and shake their hand.
We have done some heavy lifting in Colorado. And our county Sheriff’s have refused to enforce some of our new gun laws.
When? It’s not getting any better, it’s getting worse.
“Tactically concealed carry is an advantage.”
There isn’t always an advantage in concealed carry and there isn’t always a disadvantage in open carry. There’s a deterrent value, most importantly a deterrent against tyranny, in openly bearing arms. Ideally, there would be a mixture of open and concealed; all without government permission. However, if we do not ever openly bear arms except when it is time to defend liberty, it telegraphs to tyrants that something is up. The free state is far more secure with individuals openly bearing arms and concealing arms day today, going about their business.
If your intention is only to save your own ass, concealing while dogging those who open carry makes sense.That’s not what some of us are about. Some of us understand that there are things far greater than ourselves at stake. You don’t want to open carry. I get it and I respect that. But don’t down the rest of us who do choose to open carry.
“Open carry in an urban environment is; don’t go to stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things.”
Nice slogan but it doesn’t mean jack-shit. You want to just cover just your own ass. I get it. But the rest of us are trying to do something crucial to the liberty of each and everyone of us.
“Open carry in the national forest doesn’t raise any eyebrows.”
You’re right… If your ego is so bruised by raised eyebrows, then open carry probably isn’t for you.
“Why do we have to make the cops job harder than it is?”
It’s not my responsibility to make their job easier. If they don’t want to do the job properly, they need to find another line of work. Put another way, I’m not giving up my liberty just to make some agent of government feel better. That’s not what a free society is all about.
“Can you imagine the anarchy without police?”
Anarchy is not the same thing as chaos. There are many of us that are fine without government intervention. You’re afraid of not having police around, I get it. Some of us like to be free and are willing to take responsibility that comes along with being free.
“We have done some heavy lifting in Colorado. And our county Sheriff’s have refused to enforce some of our new gun laws.”
Then why wouldn’t you open carry in Denver? If you can’t freely and openly exercise your right to bear arms, then the work is not done. We still have a lot of work to do in Ohio. We are not finished by any metric.
PD is stating that the cop tried to shoot the guy with the toy and missed.
http://wgntv.com/2016/07/21/he-missed-fla-officer-who-shot-therapist-was-aiming-for-man-with-autism-police-say/
Hahahahahahaha
“I wasn’t trying to shoot the unarmed health worker, I was trying to shoot the guy sitting on the curb armed with a toy truck”.
Thanks for that link.
‘“The reality is that he believed … that if you comply with the police and you lay on the ground with your hands up, and if you speak to them like my client was speaking to them, as Americans, we try to believe that that will not result in you getting shot,” Napoleon said.
Now Kinsey, his attorney said, doesn’t know what to tell his children.
“Physically, he will recover, but mentally, he felt like he did everything he could possibly do and that wasn’t good enough,” Napoleon said.’
Incredibly, according to the New York Daily News the officer claims he shot the one unarmed man (the therapist) accidentally in the course of trying, and failing, to shoot the other unarmed man (the patient). Three shots, three misses, one bystander injury.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/florida-shot-unarmed-man-hands-face-charges-article-1.2720369
“But he missed the patient, and hit Kinsey instead, the union chief explained. The cop feared the confused autistic patient — holding a toy truck as he sat next to Kinsey on the pavement — might have posed a safety threat, the labor leader said.”
“labor leader”
Seriously?
Uh, so why the hell was he splayed out like that? Also, “mosquito bites”? That should give us a talking point to counter the “assault rifles make things explode” crap that libbies like to yell. Maybe he did that “shoot yourself with smaller bullets to increase your resistance to larger bullets” trick.
At any rate, I hope he recovers soon and gets a good settlement from the PD. This is some real stupid BS they’ve done this time.
Cop needs to be fired immediately, not placed on leave. Fired for gross incompetence, crappy aim, whatever stupid thing you gotta claim to strip that badge off his shirt and take that gun away.
Then, the cop needs to be charged with a crime. Not knowing the particulars of the state I can’t say which statute he should be hit with, but reckless endangerment perhaps? Whatever it takes to ensure that he never again holds a firearm legally.
If you don’t want Black Lives Matter, then you need to clean house of bad or incompetent cops like this jackwagon, period. I want to believe that most cops are good. However, when cops start to stick up or buck up for their incompetent and occasionally criminal friends, then they’re little better than a state sanctioned gang.
Even the military prosecutes soldiers, sailors, airmen and Marines with far more regularity than cops do.
“If you don’t want Black Lives Matter, then you need to clean house of bad or incompetent cops like this jackwagon, period.”
Well, yes and no.
If, by BLM, you are referring to what they PURPORT to be, then I’d agree with you.
But BLM’s tentacles reach far beyond “white cops shoot innocent black people.” That’s just the emotional hook they’ve latched onto to agitprop in the MSM and in Social Media.
BLM is a radical ideology that seeks to undermine, to upset, to create chaos. Those pushing the movement from the core don’t care about “Black Lives,” or we’d hear more about Chicago and Detroit. They don’t care more about “Black Lives,” or we’d hear more about cases where a TRULY innocent man was harmed, not all the cases they can spin and manipulate.
We have to ask ourselves why they pick the cases they pick and ignore the ones they ignore. The possible answers to such a question are very telling.
Yep and the NRA is a terrorist organization. I don’t like hearing Hillary say that. Where are her facts? BLM? Goes both ways. Where are your facts?
Because they demonstrate? “Uppity Negroes!” “They are all gangbangers who deserve to be shot.”
If more every color Americans had demonstrated at Occupy Wall Street we might not have Tim Kaine standing up talking about deregulate banks. Where is your 401K? No Mexican took that.
See you are missing the big picture.
The BLM movement is BS. If blacK lives matter, why aren’t they protesting against the drug dealers that are ruining their neighborhoods? Why aren’t they protesting for good education with discipline standards so their kids don’t end up hustling on the street or dead? Why aren’t they protesting to raise awareness for how important two parent households are? Why do they wait until some black life is lost to protest?
Okay, now that you’ve got all of that out of your systems, here is my badge licking best explaination for what happened.
911 call says man with a gun. You pull up, see the white man sitting, something shiny in his hands. You keep your distance, remembering Tamir Rice. As you struggle to make out the object through your scope from about 100 yards, you observe a black man approach the suspect. Without being able to hear their conversation, you can see that he is pleading with him (“you have your whole life ahead of you, kid?) The man keeps fumbling with the shiny object, which you still can’t make out… however, IF it’s a gun, he is muzzle swiping all over creation, and obviously poses an immediate threat to your new bystander. Just then, the bystander yells out loud, specifically trying to get your attention. “There’s no need for any guns here!” What did that mean? IS THE MAN THREATENING THE BYSTANDER? Do you have any more time to waste, to figure this out? You shoot at the man, but hit the bystander, who IMMEDIATELY screams “NO NO NO!!” It is at THIS moment that your mistake becomes clear, not before.
A man was maimed, and he deserves compensation. A mistake was made, and a reprimand is in order. Criminal charges would be insane.
Don’t forget to add that you hog-tie them and make them lie on the pavement, one of them waiting for medical treatment due to your negligent actions, for at least 20 minutes.
Criminal charges are absolutely appropriate. If any one of us did what this officer did, we would be in custody and then before a judge; if we were lucky enough to survive the arrest.
Wow. You apparently live in a fantasy world.
“Do you have any more time to waste, to figure this out”
No, he was already late for break.
The police officer, who is a 4 year veteran officer, “highly distinguished”, and also a member of the SWAT team took 3 shots from 50 yards with an AR-15 rifle (and every police AR that I’ve seen has nice optics on it btw) while braced against a police cruiser. Said officer missed all 3 shots by a very wide margin…not by a couple MOA, but by a couple feet.
If you can’t make a 2″ group at 50 yards with a rifle and optics while braced against a stationary object, then you don’t deserve to be on a fucking SWAT team, much less the police force. I know many young children under the age of 12 that shoot better than this guy.
This is just plain awful marksmanship, and it’s just plain shitty police work. I’d be content to have this officer removed from the force, issue a public apology, and never shoot a firearm again.
Source: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article91160077.html
Don’t forget to add that you hog-tie them and make them lie on the pavement, one of them waiting for medical treatment due to your negligent actions, for at least 20 minutes.
Criminal charges are absolutely appropriate. If any one of us did with this officer did, we would be in custody and then before a judge; if we were lucky enough to survive the arrest.
facepalm.
Seriously, like we don’t have enough to worry about and have enough problems…
Superb !! great job
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