Alan Korwin writes [via ammoland.com]: On Dec. 7 2017 the U.S. House of Representatives passed H.R.38 – Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017. The Senate’s carry-bill — S.446 – Constitutional Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017 is vastly different; it been sitting idle since Jan. 2017. Let’s take a closer look at the House bill . . .
Protection from arrest
Under the statute, if you are carrying and in compliance, you “may not be arrested or detained” for anything related to the firearm. Some dangerous wiggle room would be eliminated if that said “shall not” instead of “may not.” It’s a small point.
You remain subject to arrest while carrying if “there is probable cause to believe that the person is doing so in a manner not provided for by this section.” That’s a bigger point. It’s not clear what this might encompass, though it seems to say you must be in compliance to be protected.
Proper ID is “facially valid” and “prima facie evidence” you are correctly licensed under the law. The protection does not seem to extend to any other violations or offenses (jaywalking while armed?).
An offending government must pay your legal bills for false arrest
This Bill is designed discourage state and local governments from acting against out-of-state residents carrying a firearm legally. First, the prosecution has the explicit burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt — the highest standard — that you were out of compliance. Next, if you use this law as a defense and the government loses, they must pay your legal bills. That’s a big deterrent to false charges.
Citizens can sue an offending government for false arrest
The statute includes a guarantee similar to 42 USC §1983: a right to a private lawsuit against the state, including damages, other relief and legal bills. If you are deprived of any “right, privilege or immunity” secured by this law, using any “statute, ordinance, regulation, custom or usage” of any state, you can sue. This seems to set up a conflict with authorized no-guns signs in section (b)(2): No-gun-zones can be set up, yet you can sue if your rights are denied. The right to sue is only against the government, private zones in section (b)(1) are not mentioned.
Magazines are redefined as handguns
The bill introduces a new definition of handgun, but only for the purpose of this statute.
The statute says: ‘‘The term ‘handgun’ includes any magazine for use in a handgun and any ammunition loaded into the handgun or its magazine.” If this passes, a magazine is now a handgun. Possession of a handgun introduces all sorts of complexity, which would apply to empty or loaded magazines. The bill says “any magazine for use in a handgun” so any magazine is affected.
Some states have magazines capacity laws (e.g., Massachusetts 10-round limit), while others ban certain types of ammunition (New Jersey’s ban on hollow-points). The bill seeks to protect a traveler in an unfriendly jurisdiction, who might be cited for their illegal magazines or ammo.
Redefining terms is always a cause for concern, unexpected results frequently lurk, and this one has several dark corners. Nothing prevents authorities from taking definitions from one place once enacted and using them in other places, “as matters of settled law.”
Ammo’s also redefined as a handgun
For the purposes of this law, only ammo loaded into “the handgun” is considered a handgun (loose ammo remains plain old ammo). Ammo loaded into magazines for that handgun, though not necessarily in the gun, are also, legally speaking, handguns.
If you have a loaded or empty magazine you have a handgun. If you then acquire a matching pistol, do you have two handguns? Is a six-shooter seven guns? Walking past a school zone with an empty magazine would almost violate state versions of the next law. That said . . .
The bill quashes the Clinton-Era Imaginary Gun-Free-School-Zone
A person who carries a firearm discreetly under the terms of this statute — with a state permit or in a state that doesn’t require one — is not subject to 18 USC §922q, the gun-free-school-zone law. (Open carry is not included.)
The possible combinations leave unresolved questions. For example, is a person with a carry permit from a state without Constitutional Carry who travels to a Constitutional Carry state immune from gun-free-school-zone laws? Or does the bill fail to protect a permittee outside their state of origin?
National Land Assets are open to armed citizens
A person carrying under the terms of this statute may do so in any public areas of the National Parks, a National Wildlife Refuge, public Bureau of Land Management lands, Army Corps of Engineers land, and Bureau of Reclamation land.
Federal Judges get permitless national concealed carry reciprocity
Section 104 dictates that federal judges can carry sidearms concealed nationally — without a background check, firearms training or any other precondition.
H.R. 38 attempts to “Fix NICS” (formerly H.R. 4477)
Added to the bill, page after page establishes conditions that must be met by federal agencies and authorities, to pour names into the NICS system The rapid growth of NICS is another holy grail of the gun-ban movement, an ongoing infringement steamroller with no stop in sight. I’ll detail this part of the bill in a separate post.
“Bump Fire” parts defined
SEC. 206 requires the AG to issue a report in 180 days on “bump stocks” used in crime, how often they’ve been used in crime, and attempts to define them.
The opposition to H.R. 38 assembles
When the bills get combined (IF the Senate votes) we’ll get something brand new. Both parties will argue during conference committee, change things, that’s standard. Meanwhile, the news coverage of the bill is astounding: Inventions, lies and plain stupidity. Basically, the antis are repeating every deceptive complaint the public has endured about “loosening” concealed carry permit laws.
Once again, we’re getting the BITS myth (Blood In The Streets): horrible criminals will suddenly start carrying firearms and shooting indiscriminately. Criminal laws will cease to exist or stop operating, allowing criminals to carry. Good people traveling armed will suddenly turn bad, shoot slow waiters and people at stop lights.
The public’s being told that legal carry will somehow make it harder for authorities to arrest armed criminals. That cops won’t be able to tell the difference between a good guy with a gun and a bad guy with a gun, putting their lives and the lives of innocent bystanders at risk. Some states have already insisted they will disobey the law.
“We will fight any federal action that lets visitors bring guns to our streets,” NYC police commissioner James O’Neill and Cyrus Vance, Manhattan D.A. pronounced in a self-righteous and self-contradictory guest editorial The Wall Street Journal. They complained that if the bill passes, “a person could be armed in public without ever having a background check.”
The truth
Surely these New York officials know that description fits every criminal roaming their streets right now. The bill’s only change: mere possession of a gun by a law abiding citizen will no longer be a crime under a boot, Jack. The corrupt agencies who want to continue making unconstitutional arrests and demands for your papers (which they refuse to recognize in the first place) would be prohibited from doing so.
Alan Korwin
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The only slightly positive thing we got in Australia when the national gun laws came in is that all states had to recognise the others licenses. The anti gun states tried to prevent this and keep their own rules like New York or Ca. Wouldn’t want to be the first test case though.
Not that good in my area where previously there was no license except for full auto.
Well thanks to AG sessions selling out to the democrats, we’re gonna have worse gun laws than Australia.
“… if you use this law as a defense and the government loses, they must pay your legal bills. That’s a big deterrent to false charges.”
Hah! Why is paying for attorney fees with taxpayer money a big deterrent? Now if those rogue prosecutors had to pay for attorney fees out of their own pocket, that would be a different matter.
ok, one mre comment, I have carried a S&W M10 2″ in my front pants pocket as well as both my M19 and M66 with their 2.5 inc barrels and gotten away with it. and in the summertime all 3revolvers have been in an IWB holster that has a high clip ( up paased the cylinder) that only had the grips sticking out past the waistline . had on a t- shirt and no one new those guns were there. I also carry my Taurus M817, 7 shot 38 special like that as well as my S&W M12 ( they really, really should bring that one back). so you can carry these. my 3 inch M65 also has been carried this way.
I have a S&W model 69, 44 magnum for carry and home defense. Usually loaded with .44spc for 2 legged threats, which even here in Alaska, are a bigger problem than the 4 legged ones. Have a backup speed loader with 240 gr hard cast in case of encounters with angry critters.
A good read for any firearms enthusiast
The only reason why they probably won’t send her to jail is because her cat army would starve without her.
There’s a few offending POS (D) states, and some tyrannical POS MFs in D.C., we’ve been dicking around with these aholes and issues for over 150 years all-told, and it’s the antis that are the moving / offending party, the only bone we need to throw them is the jaw bone of an ass.
Can’t we just fing say FIFY, and have the F _ _ K – at ?
That was rhetorical. But, by all means, take your time thinking it over.
Going to have to disagree here. The revolver is going the way of the tactical arquebus. In the 21st century there is little that a revolver offers that a good polymer framed striker fired semi-auto doesn’t do better at a fraction of the weight and several times the capacity. While they will always have uses (like predator defense), the revolver is sadly ready to become “An elegant weapon… for a more civilized age.”
Serge. We’re not all tactical warriors. There are firearms that are not AR’s, AK’s or polymer. Firearms can be fun as well as practical. My most advanced combat rifle is a mosin nagant. Cause, guess what, I will never be in combat again.
I actually plan on buying no more firearms. I have ample now. But if a Beretta .25 shows up at the fun store, I’m on it. Cause I want a Beretta .25.
This was interesting. But the author has one thing seriously wrong. You are NOT supposed to put TSA approved locks on gun cases.
They are supposed to have to come get you if they need to open the case. The whole idea with you waiting while they screen it is that it will not have to be opened again.
This is actually pretty well known in the gun world. In fact, this has become a “life hack” among some gun guys. If you have fancy electronics or expensive booze, put a little handgun in a large gun case and include the other stuff with the gun. Then the TSA goons in the bowels of the airport baggage system won’t have access to your MacBook or George T Stagg.
I have read many of these comments from traditional enthusiasts regarding the FBI standard for penetration. Their standard is based on real world targets, whether they are in a vehicle or shooting from some other form of cover and the round fired having the ability to penetrate far enough in ballistics gel equal barriers it may encounter in real world scenarios and still be able to cause severe bodily harm to the perp and stop them.
When we are talking about using a personal defense round, whether in concealed carry or home defense, our scenario is much different from what a law enforcement officer may encounter in their every day duties. We are not actively seeking out the bad guys, but rather reacting to them when they are meaning to cause us harm. Our concerns should be to incapacitate them ASAP without concern about over penetration and harming people we don’t want to harm.
A bullet that expends all of it’s energy without over penetrating, yet causing a big damaging wound is what we need. The Liberty causes just that. This round has shown many times over that it will penetrate body armor and leave a nasty hole on the other side. So why is anyone talking about penetration? Do you honestly think a round that can penetrate body armor won’t be able to shoot through a coat and a shirt? Seriously? The traditional rounds that reach the “correct depth” of penetration in gel won’t defeat body armor so I have no idea why this subject is being argued. Yes, some scenarios of concealed carry will benefit from a round that may need to penetrate something that the bad guy is hiding behind, but at that point he is not being the same sort of threat as he is trying to hide himself. Let the police take him out at that point. If he shows himself put a big hole in him.
I want a lightweight super-fast round that will pack a big punch, and cause a big hole. I am not going to shoot through car doors, windshields, or some other form of cover. I want to make a big fat hole in the person wanting to cause harm to my family or me and not pass through them and hit my family member on the other side. The damage from the hydro-shock in this light, fast round is huge and will enable you to stop them without hitting them right in the vital organ and be able to control the gun for quicker follow up shots if necessary.
I use Liberty critical defense in my .40cal and would love to have some even faster rounds for a .357sig. if they were offered. Hopefully soon they will make them in this round. I would love to have some trucking along at about 2200-2400 fps in this round.
It is important to realize what your purpose for carry is.
Bought a M&P15 Sport today at a Point Blank $499.00. can’t go wrong at this! Fin Fur & Feathers had them for $499.00 including 5 extra mags. How’s that for a price?
His wife had a weird house built cause she was sacred of spooks that Oliver’s guns killed. I think?
Domt do facebook.
In college, some folks gave me grief for hunting squirrels.
Never bothered me…..squirrels are tasty and fun to hunt.
California has already passed a law demanding the semi-auto rifles be turned in to be melted down over the next 2 years. The Supreme Court over the Maryland case refused to hear its assault rifle case giving the green light to California and all other States that want to ban them or melt them down. In other words the Supreme Court trashed the Scalia decision and the Second Amendment in one fell swoop. Its trash and its over for good. The modifications to get around such laws are exactly like a drowning man just grasping at straws. The States will simply ban the modifications faster than they can come up with new ones and lets face facts there are only so many modifications anyone can make.
The various elections we have had in the last several months has shown public outrage over Herr Drumpf and his gang of Criminal Gangsters as they are going to be swept from power in 2018 which means an avalanche of new gun bans and confiscations. And the 2020 elections will be the final end to most gun ownership in the U.S. Dump what you have now because you will get nothing for them when they start to confiscate them.
The new tax rape law and the repeal of the individual mandate to destroy Obama Care and give the Insurance companies a green light to once again rape the public on healthcare was the last straw that doomed the Gangster Criminal Republicans because once you give something to the people you cannot take it away from them and not suffer repercussions.
While the greed monger Republicans were all laughing all the way to the bank after raping the American people by exempting themselves of almost all taxation and at the same time putting the tax burden on the working man as well as getting ready to rape them of all medicare and medicare benefits and destroy Social Security to pay for their highway robbery tax rape scam the end result will be a Congress that is predominately Democrat for many, many years to come.
Who knows we just might become a civilized nation because of it bu the only down side is in order to do that the gun owners will suffer the most when they come for all of their guns not just some of them. But most gun owners now being at the retirement stage of their lives will say ” When it comes to my health guns do not even come in a distant second” for what good is a gun collection when you have to sell them to pay for your medical bills. Now that is reality for most retirees and there is no lying your way around that truth.
I think to with the almost total destruction of the U.S. Middle Class the big price difference over the Glock will be a no brainier for most people. Why spend 200 bucks more for a Glock and a Glock is a much more dangerous pistol to carry because it has no manual safety which has resulted in many, many, needless deaths and maiming’s.
I think Ruger has a real winner this time both safety wise and price wise.
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The one that puts the “just farted in church” look on people’s faces is my Colt National Match Mid-Range in .38 Special. Only consumes 148gr. Wadcutters and I can’t find magazines for it. It came from the factory in .38spl. Very obscure part of 20th century Colt
Service revolver carry:
Carried a Colt Police Positive in a Roy Baker pancake holster during the early nineteen eighties. This light weight 4 inch revolver was loaded with 125 grain Remington JHP 38 Special +P rounds that clocked just over 1100 fps through the screens of an analog Oehler chronograph. This was before the 38 Special +P round was neutered by pressure reductions in the last decade of the 20th century.
Intratec CAT45. I found it at a local shop and use it to test experimental 45 ACP handloads when I don’t want to risk any of my other 45s.
1916 Spanish Mauser
Ummm, when did we vote on this Rich. I think you’re wrong because it was never on a ballot. DOJ and Moonbeam Brown thrust this down our throats in 06′.
Screw Ukraine. They brought this on themselves. You don’t screw with another nation’s naval base. How would we react if Cuba decided to take back Guantanamo? Would we just rollover and let them have it?
I want my Russian AK’s and 7n6 back!!
And if Ukraine actually wants to make money and gain my forgiveness they can quit screwing around and ship us their Fort-brand AK’s.
COOL, A ZEPPELIN!!!
“…gun laws have only grown more lax across the nation over the past twenty years.” By that, does he mean Soros and Bloomberg and the Joyce, Brady, etc. folks haven’t gotten every item they paid for on their legislative shopping list?
Count me as guilty for staring at this pic a long time…..due to trying to find out what she’s carrying without using google fu. Actually I’ll check the safe, maybe I’ll have the same one in there.
“Your mistletoe is not match for my T.O.W missile” – Robot Santa from Futurama
Will is one tuff bastard to kill, they’ve been shooting at him for years
Ouch that draw! Very bad example.
If I was her I wuld have just gave them the mony and dialed 9-1-1. She got lucky. A bb to the chest could be fatal. …
“Some dangerous wiggle room would be eliminated if that said “shall not” instead of “may not.” It’s a small point…”
Nah. Passive voice versus active voice- it’s the correct term, and it does not mean someone “may or may not” arrest you. It means they cannot do so without being subject to the remedies set forth in the same bill.
Honestly, the bill as written is about the best that could be hoped for- which is why it will never pass.
-Would be happy to be proven wrong
Post Office parking need to be addet and the bill need an safe storage preemption in vehicles on any state and federal ground !
If Santa shows up toting an AK instead of an AR he’s gonna get taken out at my house.