Santa Fe Parent Also Blames FedEx and American Express for Online Ammunition Sale

FedEx truck

Bigstock

As we’ve noted here, parents of a student killed in the Santa Fe, Texas school shooting have sued the shooter’s parents and Lucky Gunner, the online ammunition retailer who sold the 17-year-old the ammunition he used.

As reported in the linked BuzzFeed article, the shooter checked a box on Lucky Gunner’s site indicated that he was at least 21 years old. But the mother of one of the murdered students isn’t happy with FedEx or American Express either.

“FedEx shipped the ammo to a guy’s house, without a signature. Why doesn’t FedEx have a policy that we have to verify signatures and ages for deliveries of ammunition?” asked [Rhonda] Hart.

FedEx did not respond to a request for comment.

Hart also thinks gift cards such as those used from American Express should not be able to be used to purchase ammunition.

“Why can you buy so much ammunition online with a burner credit card?” she said. “Why didn’t that trigger a red flag?”

American Express also did not respond to a request for comment for this story.

“Your policies are bad,” said Hart, addressing the companies involved. “Your profit seems more important than human lives.”

– Amber Jamieson in Her Daughter Died In A School Shooting. She’s Furious FedEx And AmEx Let The Shooter Buy Ammunition Online

comments

  1. avatar Casey says:

    I’m sorry for her loss, but I don’t understand how she is so angry at Lucky Gunner, FedEx, Amex… at me?

    Surely the murderer deserves all the blame? He did it. No one (that I’ve heard suggested) put him up to it. Every other child in every other school has the same level of access to Lucky Gunner, FedEx, and Amex, yet with a few rare broken exceptions, don’t go around murdering people.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Exactly.

    2. avatar Taxman NC says:

      Of course. The criminal is always the one at fault, not the peripheral businesses that merely provide legal products to consumers. Ammunition is also protected by 2nd Amendment. So you sue the criminal or the criminal’s estate if they got killed in the crime. I don’t tell FedEx what is inside my package when I send it – that is confidential. A debit card is merely the same as cash or money from your bank account – it is not AMEX fault that a criminal uses his own money to commit a crime. AMEX merely allows one to spend their own money.

      1. avatar Anymouse says:

        Ammunition is considered hazardous materials, so it needs to be marked ORM-D or other more specific hazmat warning, and the shipper needs to know. Hazmat includes such innocuous things as spray cans and perfume, but it’s stuff that might need special handling in case of a fire, etc.

      2. avatar JD Daily says:

        Federal rules require that packages containing ammo are clearly marked with “ORM D”.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Federal rules require that packages containing ammo are clearly marked with “ORM D”.”

          Thought that only applied to the postal service.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Ammo cannot be shipped by Postal Service, must be shipped by common carrier and must be labled ORM-D…

        3. avatar arc says:

          Nice, now everyone knows which packages to steal if they want ammo.

        4. avatar Sian says:

          ORM-D labeling is also required for aerosol cans, charcoal, perfume, and drain cleaner.

        5. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Yupp……

      3. avatar Cliff H says:

        This person seems to be complaining about what FedEx and Amex did even though they violated no laws in so doing. Nor, apparently, did Lucky Gunner.

        You can’t sue somebody for something you THINK should be illegal, but isn’t.

        Yes, this is a civil suit and they can name defendants for “proximal cause”, but it seems to me those defendants had no responsibility for how the merchandise was used, or by whom, once it was delivered.

        I certainly hope the jury will be able to see past the specious “should have known…” claim and toss this thing in the dumpster where it belongs.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “You can’t sue somebody for something you THINK should be illegal, but isn’t.”

          I think I would argue dereliction of duty to ensure state/city laws are not violated. In the case of transport, delivery, purchase card, I would argue they all know they age-prohibited products, but do not take reasonable care to ensure that they take prudent steps to prevent predictable abuse of their sales and delivery systems.

          In the matter of online sales of ammunition, businesses that sell product online should be required to only deliver to FFLs, who will prevent under-aged buyers from taking possession. That would “fix” both the commercial delivery “loophole”, and the online credit transaction “loophole”. An alternative would be that deliveries of ammunition would stop at a distribution center near the buyer, but require in-person transfer.

          As to the matter of gift cards, notice could be given any business that sells disliked product to inform that gift cards would no longer be made available to the store chain, or individual store because those stores cannot ensure the gift cards will not be used to purchase disfavored product.

          And the above is written without the creativity that would emanate from my fifth martini of the day.

        2. avatar MADDMAXX says:

          Then you really need to catch up on the martini front because that was the most illogical pile of horse shit I’ve read since Vlad quit posting on here.. Ammo deliveries to FFLS? How did “gift” cards get in the conversation? What is a “purchase” card? Now this is just a concept but how about simply requiring an adult signature (a signature was required for my Xbox One X) for delivery and save millions of LAW ABIDING gun owners who enjoy the convienience of home delivery of legally purchased ammunition the extra expense and time instead of punishing everyone for the actions of a dumbass kid…. FFLs charge a handling fee of 15 to 30 dollars per transaction which with shipping charges would pretty much negate the savings from online purchases so people would stop ordering ammo which woud precipitate an unintended consequence of thousands of people being put out of work in order centers, warehouses, shipping and recieving docks and truck drivers, that would be really cool….

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          You are correct Sam, they have a duty to exercise reasonable care complying with the law to make sure that prohibited persons do not receive prohibited items.

        4. avatar John in AK says:

          Define ‘reasonable.’

          I’m sure that such an erudite and astute legal scholar can come up with a precise, all-encompassing bright-line definition of ‘reasonable’ as a standard so that anyone can easily understand it, from a Supreme Court justice to a 7-11 clerk from Bangladesh.

          Don’t keep us in suspense.

        5. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Define ‘reasonable.’ ”

          Experience tell us, “The words mean what we say they mean”. Whatever the people writing the law/regulation decide “reasonable” means. It’s sorta like nailing Jello to a wall.

        6. avatar Miner49er says:

          Johnny, I would say what we’re looking for is the phrase ‘reasonable diligence’.

          “A fair, proper, and due degree of care and activity, measured with reference to the particular circumstances; such diligence, care, or attention as might be expected from a man of ordinary prudence and activity. Railroad Co. v. Gist, 31 Tex. Civ. App. 002. 73 S. W. 857; Racon v. Steamboat Co., 90 Me. 40.37 Atl. 32S; Latta v. Clifford (C. C.) 47 Fed. 020: Rice v. Brook (C. C.) 20 Fed. 014”

          Blacks law dictionary can be very helpful in parsing out legalspeak.

          Sam, from your posts I am surmising that you are a very competent plaintiffs’ attorney.

        7. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Sam, from your posts I am surmising that you are a very competent plaintiffs’ attorney.”

          No, but I often stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

          Actually, I just know the mind of people who will do anything, say anything, to get what they want. I went thru college with their grandparents, in the ’60s.

        8. avatar StLPro2A says:

          That’s known as Saul Alinsky’s “The end justifies the means” from his Rules For Radicals.

    3. avatar Dave in PTC says:

      People will get talked into suing everyone by their lawyer.

      Q: How many lawyers does it take to screw in a light bulb?
      A: Three, One to climb the ladder. One to shake it. And one to sue the ladder company.

      1. avatar Craig in IA says:

        “I’m sorry for her loss, but I don’t understand how she is so angry at Lucky Gunner, FedEx, Amex…” Some bottom feeder likely contacted her right after the incident. Probably had 6 or 7 offers for pro bono work- tookthe best “offer”. Justice is rarely served any longer, too many lawyers looking for clients. Those that can’t raise them become politicians,

        1. avatar Big Bill says:

          ““I’m sorry for her loss, but I don’t understand how she is so angry at Lucky Gunner, FedEx, Amex…””
          Seriously? The criminal in this case has no money. Lucky Gunner, FedEx and Amex have money. This suit is about making a statement, and nothing (well, legally, anyway) makes a statement quite as well as taking money from someone does (and tangentially, at least, keeping a large part of that money for yourself, as well as the lawyers keeping a bunch of it).
          How do I know this? Listen to the plaintiffs in suits such as this when they tell you that money can’t possibly make up for their loss; then watch as they sue for money anyway, even though legally the defendants did nothing wrong. (in this case, FedEx and Amex are not connected very much at all, but money has the effect of getting people to find evil everywhere.)

        2. avatar Ed Schrade says:

          Now blame the tire manufacturer that made the tires on the delivery truck, the air compressor company that furnished the air to inflate the tires, the highway contractors that paved the road, the company that made the paint that was used to stripe the high way . Anything but blame the evil idiot that did the crime.

      2. avatar rt66paul says:

        No great loss.

        1. avatar Hush says:

          So many ways to steal!

    4. Some folks drive there cars while intoxicated; therefore we should ban cars and alcohol. Right? Or could we maybe hold accountable those who actually did the deed? And leave the rest of us in peace.

    5. avatar LarryinTX says:

      It almost seems that these other agencies must have deeper pockets than the actual killer.

  2. avatar cgray says:

    I’m just mad about getting pinched for fifteen bucks per shipment.

  3. avatar bryan1980 says:

    Do we have another Fred Guttenberg here? Someone who was probably anti-gun before this terrible tragedy, and will now use it to push for more regulations? Sure looks like it, unfortunately.

  4. avatar Prndll says:

    Too much blame in the wrong direction and not enough in the right. She is confused as to the difference between the good guys and the bad.

    Just as it is difficult for her to see any form of clarity, it is almost impossible for me to tell the difference between a grieving parent and someone bought, owned, and brainwashed by rich anti-gun people like Bloomberg.

    1. avatar Sam I Am says:

      “Too much blame in the wrong direction and not enough in the right. She is confused as to the difference between the good guys and the bad.”

      Not about justice. Not about punishing the shooter. It’s about getting the most money from the most likely to have money source. Shooter has no money. Family will file bankruptcy. Maybe LuckyGunner will file bankruptcy. Maybe the gift card companies will refuse to authorize payments for guns and ammo.

      It’s never about actually addressing the underlying problem; society is too difficult to “fix”.

      1. avatar arc says:

        Hard to block ammo sales unless you can see an itemized receipt. You can block by retailer but that would then include Cebelas, farm and feed stores, the local rifle club and more or less be financial suicide by blocking some of the biggest box stores in the USA.

        Even if you could block itemized purchases by a generic name, products often have their own itemized name on the receipt. Keywords are easy enough to work around and I would punch my ammo stock into the computer system as a highly abbreviated term or custom name.

        1. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “Hard to block ammo sales unless you can see an itemized receipt. ”

          The power is mostly in the threat of action. We have already seen attempts by the major bank card issuers to intimidate retailers regarding firearms and ammo sales. Then there are the “secret shoppers”.

    2. avatar Big Bill says:

      “Too much blame in the wrong direction and not enough in the right. She is confused as to the difference between the good guys and the bad.”

      Grief tends to do that.
      Note that far too many lawyers don’t care about grief, other than to pay lip service to it while they promise to shower money on those who grieve. (As a side helping of justification, they use lines like “Don’t you think those who had a part in this deserve to feel your grief?”)
      Those who grieve will almost universally say money can’t assuage their grief. But it somehow seems to help.

  5. avatar Scooter says:

    So, every victim of a drunk driver can go after the vehicle manufacturer, dealership that sold it, alcohol producer, distributor, and retailer, and the transportation companies that delivered the products, as well as the manufacturer of the vehicles subassemblies and parts, their carriers, and the manufacturer of the vessel from which the drunk drank and it’s transportation company, plus the parents of the drunk regardless of age because they manufactured the drunk who did the driving? How about the construction company that produced the roadway, the agency that planned it, and the gravel, pavement, and striping paint suppliers? The state that issued the driver’s license? AMERICA! Red, white, and sue. Wish I was a lawyer.

    1. avatar bryan1980 says:

      Yes to all of the above. After that, they weed out the ones that don’t have any money they can recover, until they’re only left with the ones that have deep pockets. And those people will usually settle out of court just to make them go away. They really can’t lose, can they?

      1. avatar Big Bill says:

        Really? When’s the last time you saw an auto maker sued for a DUI death? Or even the bar that served the drunk (granted, that has happened a few times, but not very often at all). The booze maker? I can’t think of one such case.
        No, this isn’t about responsibility. This is about guns. All the other trapping are just that: trappings. Cases such as this are about an agenda to get rid of guns.
        We must keep our eyes on the ball, and not be distracted by the cheerleaders.

        1. avatar Southern Cross says:

          The first case against a firearm manufacturer after the PLCAA is repealed will be the legal precedent for the above lawfare against other industries.

        2. avatar Big Bill says:

          Why would that be true?
          There is no need for any such precedent, as there have been many such cases already brought.
          Just as one example, there have been many cases brought (and won) against bars for “overserving” patrons who then went on to DUI and injure/kill someone.
          No, the PLCAA was made specifically shield the firearms industry alone from agenda-driven lawsuits intended not to win, but to grind down the various industry partners into oblivion. It does not apply to other industries, thus no precedent as you suggest is needed at all.

  6. avatar Slavery is just a tax says:

    Fedex needed gas to deliver, what about the internet provider and electric company that made the online sale possible?

    1. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

      Go deeper!
      Let’s go after the mining companies that dug up the lead and components to make the brass!

      1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

        Didn’t Obama already try that during his second term? Use EPA restrictions to go after lead mining companies and smelters, as a back alley method of “ammo control”?

        1. avatar Tin Foil Hat says:

          Nope, he sure didn’t.

        2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

          @Tin Foil,

          Actually, he did. You need to adjust the azimuth of your hat for better reception.

          https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/16881-epa-closure-of-last-lead-smelting-plant-to-impact-ammunition-production

        3. avatar Miner49er says:

          You are spreading fake news.

          “Q: Did “Obama and the EPA” shut down the nation’s last lead smelting plant as part of a “back door gun control” plan to reduce the supply of ammunition?

          A: No. The plant closing on Dec. 31 is in response to EPA rules adopted before President Obama took office, and ammunition manufacturers say it will not affect supply.”

          I wonder why so many people want to blame Obama win the official action actually occurred before his tenure as president?

          Perhaps it’s just a smokescreen to attempt to hide the fact that Obama and the Democrats expanded gun rights by authorizing the carrying of weapons in accordance with state laws on hundreds of thousands of acres of federal land under the BOM and national forest system.

          In the past three years, can anyone remind me when President Trump expanded gun rights?
          A cursory review of his statements can be enlightning, his administration banned bump stocks and he has publicly stated his support for red flag laws.

          And who can forget this gem, “maybe we should just take the guns and worry about the courts later!”

      2. avatar Craig in IA says:

        “Let’s go after the mining companies that dug up the lead and components to make the brass!” Seriously- don’t give anyone more ideas… Lots of states are already looking to ban lead projectiles/shot and there’s arsenic in brass.

  7. avatar John Hull says:

    There are a thousand different ways to kill people if you set your mind to doing that. If you can’t do it one way you can always find another way. Its too bad that woman lost her daughter, but when you start blaming inanimate objects incapable of acting of their own volition, it seems to me that her guilt is pushing her to blame anything, because she can’t do anything to the one who did the deed. That’s a typical reaction of someone who has given up their power to the local government, the police, and anyone else who says “we will protect you, just give us your vote to let us run things.” When people lived on the frontier, they had to stand up and fight back against the bad things that happened. Sometimes they lost, but they were far more prepared to handle it than 99% of the people living today, and the country is poorer for it.

    1. avatar StLPro2A says:

      In 1958. the late Col Jeff Cooper, handgun expert and founder of Gunsite Academy, stated,
      “Killing is a matter of will, not weapons.
      You cannot control the act itself
      by passing laws about the means employed.”

      If one investigates, this distraught mother is probably being nudged by anti-2A operatives to subscribe to this position. Rahm Emanuel’s axiom “Never let a tradgety go to waste.” Typically, the bad guy with a gun…..or the mentally deficient guy with a gun……or the TERRIBLY DISTRAUGHT FAMILY MEMBER OF A GUN SHOOTING VICTIM…….or the Feelz-Gooder Social Do-Gooder…..are the politician’s Useful Idiot Tools to achieve his power and control agenda.

  8. avatar Ferg in Tahoe says:

    How dare Goodyear allow Ford,Chevy, Dodge etc., to put their tires on those horrible people killing machines! They should be brought to justice! (Sarc)
    When will courts stop allowing these frivolous lawsuits at their own front steps? Or maybe the question is, “Why won’t they?”

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Laws favor lawyers because they’re written by lawyers. It’s the most over represented profession in Congress. Judges favor the interests of lawyers because they were lawyers.

      1. avatar burley says:

        There it is…

        1. avatar Ferg in Tahoe says:

          Agreed.

  9. avatar Tom Carlson says:

    It is not just the firearms industry. There is a women who was in an automobile accident. The driver of the vehicle that struck hers was huffing canned air made by 3M. She is now in a wheelchair and will be for life. She is suing 3M for not taking enough steps to deter huffing their legal product. They have warnings on the cans and a bitterant to make it unpalatable.

  10. avatar Illinois_Minion says:

    Don’t forget to sue the government for taking their share of the sale in taxes!

    /sarc

    1. avatar DERP ‘/SARC’ says:

      You seem like a really cool guy.

      /sarc

  11. avatar Rusty - Molon Labe - Chains says:

    Working for a previous employer I worked with a lot of law firms which ment interacting with lawyers. Some few are great folks, most are like used car salesmen, and a bunch are like Bernie Madoff.

  12. avatar Kap says:

    Lawyer’s for the Parents of their murdered child are dancing in their child’s blood for Money and some kind of weird revenge for the Parents!, sue everyone until something sticks, ( this is the Lawyers Idea so he can get a Paycheck) I feel sorry for these parents as they are now open too counter suits

  13. avatar MB says:

    When a truck is used to kill 30 and injure 60 people, did they blame the truck or the driver? Did they blame Ford for the truck, Firestone for the tires, Exxon for the fuel, Texas Instruments for the computer chips in the truck? These people are insane with grief and hatred, misdirected to inanimate objects and entities than exists as corporations. No parent should have to bury their child as the result of a madman, but blame the madman. How about themselves, they failed to protect their child be sending the child to a school that was unsecured.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      False equivalence.

      There were no laws prohibiting the sale of a truck to that individual, unlike in the case at hand where there are both federal and state laws prohibiting selling ammunition to minors.

      1. avatar MB says:

        @Miner49er Nope, a minor can’t legally register a vehicle. They are a prohibited person, just like they can’t legally obtain and carry a firearm, but yet some do.

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Interesting, you don’t think a 16-year-old can buy a truck and register it with the state?

          I did it when I was 16, and had no problems whatsoever whenI showed them my drivers license, all was good.

  14. avatar GregV says:

    Typical lawyer behavior. Sue everyone in sight.

  15. avatar million says:

    “They warned other survivor families looking to file lawsuits to ensure that they have financial indemnity in the suits so they won’t be personally responsible.”

    Did Hart listen?

  16. avatar enuf says:

    It is not simply the lawyers though, hell yes, that’s a huge parasitic influence here.

    I’ve seen this before. A child dying young and before the parent can break the parent emotionally. That can take the direction of lashing out, searching for someone or some thing to blame. One notable case in my memory was a 13 year old male on a youth group camping trip who fell from a rock face and died.

    He and his pals had all been warned the cliff area was off limits. They’d been told the rocks were a form of brittle volcanic leftovers that would crumble and fail unexpectedly underfoot. A few of the boys snuck off, one of them did fall and had terrible trauma. Our rescue team struggled for hours but could not save him. Eventually we managed to retrieve the body, get him to a place a USAF helicopter could come in under night vision and hoist the body up off a ledge.

    A year later I was in a sheriff’s sub-station on other business when a commotion broke out. It was the deceased boy’s father. He was there demanding the arrest of the leaders of the youth group for theft of his dead child’s property. Turns out a small personal item had been missed when his effects were collected, but a year later it turned up under some other gear in a footlocker.

    As explained to me, non-stop beginning about a month after the funeral the father had been in to the Sheriff, the prosecutor’s office and other authorities with a barrage of wild theories about responsibility for his son’s death. He couldn’t accept the accidental nature of the loss, he needed it to be someone’s fault rather that the painful reality that young people do foolish things.

    Any parent in such a state of grief is easy prey for unscrupulous lawyers and political activists seeking a useful victim to aid their own agendas. I understand the grief factor in this, but am outraged by the immoral nature of the political and greed factors of the manipulators around the broken, damaged, emotionally destroyed parent.

    Sadly, the best defense may well be a counter suit naming that parent.

    So there’s that.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Misery loves company, but it never helps.

    2. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      You were present at the scene and part of the rescue effort? That must have been excruciating. Nobody should have to endure that.

      Only good outcome I can imagine from that incident is that all the parents of the other youths must have had a sudden surge of love and appreciation for their own children.

      1. avatar enuf says:

        Yes, in this and some hundreds of other missions over many years before cumulative injuries forced me to set that that part of my life aside. Being a party to so many wilderness and urban interface SAR incidents, I am greatly sympathetic to the burdens of both the rescuers and the family of the lost, the injured and the dead.

        Likewise I do not fault the very young for the poor judgement typical of that age group. Try best as we can to give them the guidance to survive youthful risk taking, there will always be that small percentage who fail. When luck is on their side they only break themselves and survive. Sometimes, they do not survive. There are cold, hard and misrable statistics that can be quoted, which would say that this is a normal part of raising humans from small portable portable bundles of joy and poop to full size and completed persons, but none of that helps really.

        On the other hand, my sympathies towards the lawyers, the activists, the criminals are in short supply.

    3. avatar StLPro2A says:

      There’s a novel concept…..PERSONAL RESPONSIBIITY!?!?!?!? Sue that parent for raising a Defective Citizen. It’s not gun violence. It’s Defective Citizen Violence. In Ferguson, the parents of Defective Citizen Michael Brown were paid $1,400,000 for raising a Defective Citizen that cost the St. Louis area hundreds of millions in damage, lost business, the lost career of a police officer defending his own life, reputation of St, Louis, etc.. The parents should have been presented with an invoice for the costs to tax payers. But, no, St. Louis has been run by Democrats putting citizens onto the Government Plantation for 80 years.

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    Don’t be so sure this frivolous suit has no traction. Especially if a geriatric dim gets in orifice. Cobie Bryant’s widow is suing a DEAD helicopter pilate. And she’s already rich. No doubt her dead hubby more or less ordered the pilate to fly. I have never ordered ammo online but due diligence can be argued…

  18. avatar MrMax says:

    I cannot fathom the loss of a child and truly have sympathy for how the parents feel about their child being murdered. Their grief and wanting to put the blame somewhere to assuage the incredible loss has blinded them to reality – and the ambulance chaser lawyers are right there telling them they can get a windfall settlement to somewhat “compensate” for their child’s death. The courts best be careful here or they risk driving many legitimate businesses into the ground on a totally incorrect basis. Where is a “means test” for these cases where the judge can throw the cases out before they are ever heard? Where is the standard for PERSONAL responsibility? These are issues that deserve a public hearing nationally or companies won’t want to make ANYTHING in the the USA for fear they’ll be frivolously sued.

    1. avatar StLPro2A says:

      Certainly grief for a parent that loses a chid by whatever means. However, the bad guy with a gun…..or the mentally deficient guy with a gun……or the TERRIBLY DISTRAUGHT FAMILY MEMBER OF A GUN SHOOTING VICTIM…….or the Feelz-Gooder Social Do-Gooder…..are the politician’s Useful Idiot Tools to achieve his power and control agenda.

  19. avatar Sarcastro says:

    I think we should sue the manufacturer of the murderer. After all, she was irresponsibly allowed to create a dangerous killing machine, with no oversight or restrictions. If it wasn’t for her negligence, the killings would never have happened.

    1. avatar I Haz A Question says:

      Let’s just stop quibbling and go right to the source, and sue God for creating the entire world and everything in it. Man is made in His image, so all of Man’s failings must surely be His fault, right?

      How much money can we squeeze from God? Enough to buy a house in Malibu?

      [/super sarc]

      1. avatar StLPro2A says:

        GIGANTIC LIGHTNING BOLT STRIKES…. Judgement to the Plaintiff…….. (not sarc). 🙂 🙂 🙂

      2. avatar Miner49er says:

        Well, God has trillions of dollars in property and assets across the world, that should be available for forfeiture and auction.

        For years, churches have received tax breaks on their property while still receiving police and fire services. The law granting tax breaks to churches and religious organizations is clearly unconstitutional, violating the first amendment injunction against Congress passing laws regarding religion.

        1. avatar StLPro2A says:

          Church tax exemption is a Quid Pro Quo….as is most every government transaction. In return for the tax exemption, churches are barred from being involved in politics. Ministers cannot preach politics from the pulpit for fear of losing tax exemption status. Typical government poly. In return for dollars or else, you accept control. It’s how the Democrats put the black…and now many non-blacks…onto the Government Plantation. And, they tax others to pay for the shanty shacks, sow belly and collard greens, cell phones, and other free shit. In return, Libtards get all the black vote. What a scam. More money, power, and control in Government than Cotton.

  20. avatar GS650G says:

    Don’t forget to sue the power company for powering the internet and buildings where people work who facilitated the ammo buy.

    I guess I really wasn’t the murderers fault after all.

  21. avatar GS650G says:

    Be like Sal and sue everyone

    https://youtu.be/QhjBlPucpd0

  22. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

    I typically request gift cards from anyone giving me gifts for special occasions or holidays. This is because none of my relatives, friends, or in-laws, or even my wife understand the nuances and details of the things i actually want. So if these pricks get gift card issuers to render their products unusable for online gun related purchases I an going to be pissed.

    I have bought all kinds of gun stuff with visa and american express gift cards over the years and never used any of it on another human being.

  23. avatar Imayeti says:

    Stages of grieving: Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression. The parents actions fit right in. I can’t imagine the pain they feel.

  24. avatar MADDMAXX says:

    Are they looking for justice? Sounds like they are more interested in a payday, someone tell the lawyers they missed a couple of things…. Gun mfg, ammo maker, did he drive to school? if so get the car mfg, the dealer, was it financed? get the bank… what about his clothes? who made his pants, his shirt, what brand shoe was he wearing? where was the school in all this? Was there an armed SRO on premesis? Hell it doesn’t matter, sue the school, the district, the board, the principal… Throw enough shit at the wall and something will eventually stick… On the card used, I’m not sure but I don’t think there is anything in the card number that identies it as prepaid to a retailer (not relevant anyway) and as I recall there was not that much ammo purchased, hell what would she say about the 1260 rounds I had delivered Sunday… Lucky Gunner complied with the law, the kid checked the box (lied) and Fedex did their job based on available information acting in good faith that the shipper did theirs and credit card companies are not responsible for purchases made by the end user….. This is a lose, lose, lose for this plaintiff… I sympathize with the parents but they really need to quit listening to a bunch of lawyers that will just keep dragging this on til they see a check…..

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      Perhaps they have pure motives and are attempting to get changes in corporate policy. If they offered Fedex a settlement of instituting an adult signature policy, Fedex might accept instead of risking losing the court case, or simply wasting a bunch of money on lawyers. OTOH, Fedex has little chance to lose the suit and certainly has a salaried legal department.

  25. avatar HandyDan says:

    Where does this end? Does she use the shooter’s internet provider for providing the means to go online to buy the ammo? The manufacturer of the device the shooter used to go online? The electric company which provided the power which powered the device? How about the construction company which built the house or building in which the shooter was sitting when he ordered the ammo? Where does this end?

  26. avatar Mr. Tactical says:

    Seems to be a lot of blaming, except the one place it should be, on the shooter.

  27. avatar James W Crawford says:

    The murderer heeded the advice of Creepy Joe Biden and used a politically correct shotgun. The insane moms can’t demonize the gun manufacturer so they are demonizing the ammunition distributor and the shipper. Next they will be suing the logger who felled the tree that was became the cardboard for the ammunition box.

  28. avatar Matt in Oklahoma says:

    Blame everyone but the turd himself. Typical criminal enabler

  29. avatar James says:

    Ultimately you will need to sue the Government for printing the money that allowed this man to pay for the ammunition and apple computers for being a part of the internet that created the transaction and the list of names goes on and on . Common sense would squash this lawsuit but not in today’s political environment!!

  30. avatar Vic Nighthorse says:

    The biggest lie is that the plaintiffs are doing these things for the dead person(s). There is nothing at all that can be done for a dead person. They are doing it for revenge on anyone they can regardless of actual culpability.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      “There is nothing at all that can be done for a dead person.”

      So with a drunk run so for your child in the street, you wouldn’t seek legal recourse.

      1. avatar MADDMAXX says:

        That made perfect sense but you need to have a serious conversation with your voice recognition software…

        1. avatar Miner49er says:

          Yeah, my hillbilly accent confuses the speech recognition and often I don’t have time to correct it. Thanks for your patience!

  31. avatar C. M. Pissen says:

    The 2nd Amen may protect our guns but it don’t do nothing for Fed-Ex. I say Trump should ban those bastards for perpetuating this “pipeline” of illegal activities to our chidlins. Next thing is little johnny is going to have one of those inflatable sex dolls you get mail order stashed under his bed. And it will be one of those boy ones. What ya gonna do then?
    Hell in a handbasket, this never ends.

    1. avatar StLPro2A says:

      sadly. the Left is all about that male sex doll on the bed, not under the bed, for Little Johnny. It’s called destroying the mors, morals, and value system of this great country. One step of the 45 Point Plan For Overtaking America without firing a shot. America has been over run. The Evil Enemy sits in the Command Post.

  32. avatar Darkman says:

    Pretty much says it all. Lyrics and Vid.
    Eagles: Get over it:https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&sxsrf=ALeKk03IgKZOH2fu7r0B3bARq8ahQbp1fQ:1583868552221&ei=iOpnXqv9DJXPtQaR2ZnQCg&q=eagles get over it lyrics&oq=Song get over it.&gs_l=psy-ab.1.1.0i71l8.0.0..4332…0.2..0.0.0…….0……gws-wiz._KTDgU4tqW0lyrics –
    https://youtu.be/8eVtbXaGO8E

  33. avatar Hannibal says:

    Your kid is a minor. If you’re incapable of being responsible for him, stop trying to blame others.

    1. avatar Miner49er says:

      You may be surprised, but to a certain extent I agree with you. It is the parents business to be aware of what products their minor children are ordering online and bringing into their home.

      I would like to see a cause of action against the shooter’s parents for failing to exercise proper supervision of their child.

      1. avatar StLPro2A says:

        Oh, no, that would require responsibility. No one in our society wants to be responsible. Others are to blame for our wrong, insufficient actions. What ya wanna do, encourage conservative ideals???? ( For the Libtards…that’s sarcasm.)

  34. avatar neiowa says:

    Define ” so much ammunition” babe? The 1000rd 12ga I bought yesterday for son’s HS trap season “too much”. That was at retail farm store so OK?

  35. avatar Truckman says:

    this is just a bunch of money-grubbing lawyers talking people to sue so they can get a bunch of money of somebody else’s pain and besides it is not these companies fault that kids lie about their age they do it all the time on social media all the time I have seen preteens on Facebook with ages showing to be 21I had to tell a little girl no to being a friend because she was too young and I was an old man she kept on and I told to ask her mother why its wrong she left me along

  36. avatar James W Crawford says:

    what type of ammunition did the murderer buy? birdshot, buckshot or slugs? how many rounds?

  37. avatar James W Crawford says:

    in defense of the parents that are filing this lawsuit, they might be reacting to the secretiveness of the prosecutor. The parents were not allowed to view the bodies or even read the autopsies:

    https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Ten-months-after-Santa-Fe-High-shooting-families-13685169.php

    I understand the reasoning, but this is wrong.

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