“Johnson City Officer David Smith had just arrived at Southern Tier Imaging when MRI technician James Clark, 43, wildly ran up to him before punching him several times as he was trying to exit his vehicle,” nydailynews.com reports. “During the attack witnesses said Clark managed to somehow grab Smith’s weapon and repeatedly open fire until the 40-caliber duty’s magazine was spent. Once Officer Smith was down, then the suspect shot him two more times . . . Clark was consequently killed by a responding officer with a single gunshot wound. He died a couple of hours later in surgery.” Officer Smith died on the scene. Let’s talk about onions. . .
Onions have layers. Ogres have layers. Self-defense strategies have layers. Or at least they should. In the tragic incident above, Officer Smith is getting out of his cruiser. Clark catches him off-guard and launches a physical attack. Clark gets ahold of Officer Smith’s weapon and shoots him. To do so, Clark penetrated three layers of defense.
First, Smith didn’t see him coming. I don’t know how someone “wildly” runs up to a vehicle but I assume it involves a large measure of speed and surprise. I suspect Officer Smith didn’t do what everyone should do before they exit a vehicle: stop. Look around. Assess your environment.
Again, transitions are always the most dangerous part of any journey. The transition from your house (or police station) to your vehicle. The transition from the gym to your car. The transition from your office to a bar and vice versa. If someone’s going to attack you, they’re most likely to strike when you’re between “safe” places.
Your car is a relatively safe place (aside from car crashes). If you see something wrong you can drive away. If that wrong thing attacks you while you’re in your car you have safety glass and some metal protecting your from, say, punches. Your vehicle creates a layer of security. Leave and you have one less.
Second, you have your situational awareness, which should increase in both intensity and scope when you leave your car. In other words, it’s a good idea to look around and see where danger could be lurking, both near and far. Are there a pair of stationary feet under a nearby car? Someone hanging out across the street? Anything untoward?
It’s not paranoia; it’s a personal safety habit that quickly become subconscious. After you’ve scanned your environs for possible threats you’re free to take your situational awareness down a notch or two. But once you lose your ability to return to your car, you’ve lost another layer of security.
Third, you have your ability to run from or attack an attacker – remembering that it might be impossible to draw your gun. If your assailant uses speed, surprise and violence of action, your physical prowess in a fight could be your next line of defense; the next layer of that allows you to get to your final layer of defense: your gun.
Or not. The physical attack may be so brutal, your ability to sustain injuries or launch a counter-attack so limited, that you lose. All you can do is hope that you survive your injuries. In that case, it’s a very good thing if your firearm is concealed. Because you don’t want your enemy or enemies to get it – given that they’ve shown no compunction about using life-threatening violence against you.
Which brings us to open carry . . .
Cops, like the unfortunate officer described above, open carry. They usually do so with retention holsters; holsters specifically designed to frustrate a gun grab. If you open carry you should use a retention holster too – depending on a number of factors. But first . . .
Retention holsters come in three levels: 1, 2 and 3. Each level indicates the number of motions needed to extract a firearm. A Level 1 holster holds the firearm with friction alone. You pull the gun out. One motion. A gun owner using a Level 2 must perform a second, separate motion to extract the gun: push a lever, press a button, twist the gun, etc. A Level 3 firearm requires a third motion; usually pushing a guard or “hood” away from the top of the holster.
Retention holsters are a double-edged sword (so to speak). The more motions you have to perform to extract your firearm the less likely it is that someone will be able to remove it and use it against you. That someone could be a bad guy. But it could be you, too. Unless you practice using a Level 2 or 3 retention holster – a lot and properly – you could find yourself unable to draw your weapon safely, quickly and efficiently. In certain situations that would really suck.
Level 2 and 3 retention holsters are bulky and awkward; they stick out from your side like a motorcycle sidecar. Sitting in a tight chair is an issue – which makes drawing your gun while sitting in a chair problematic. Retention Level 2 and 3 holsters also aren’t the most beautiful holsters in the world, either. And if you’re going into a victim-rich (i.e. gun free) zone, you can’t ditch your gat and pull your shirt out to cover your empty holster for a stealthy entrance (as you can with most non-retention outside-the-waistband holsters).
Even so . . .
If you’re open carrying I highly recommend carrying in a Level 2 retention holster – at least. If you don’t, kick your situational awareness up a notch or three. Keep an eye on anyone getting close to your gun, especially in stores and other public places. If you have the slightest suspicion a gun grab is in the offing (I’ve seen people do it “just for fun”) turn your body so that your gun is harder to reach.
And yes, carrying a gun with a manual safety adds an additional layer of security – and an extra step for you to screw-up. But hey, no one said this open carry thing was going to be easy or as safe as carrying concealed. As always when it comes to guns, there are ways you can minimize the risk. Were he alive today, I’m sure Officer Smith would recommend risk reduction via a retention holster for anyone open carrying a firearm. You have been warned.
I was about to leave a comment about anti-MIL type thinking- but my PC died last minute, so I had to come back and start over. Then I watched the video again (third time) and read the comments again, especially the guys that had actual enlisted experience, and thought hard about putting myself in their boots.
Now all I want to say is thanks for your service, and I hear you. RESPECT.
I think Gen Keane has made some good points, but he is also wrong, IMHO, on a couple things, and where he has been is blinding him to where we as a nation need to go. So, with respect for his service also, I would say- General, you need to think things thru, just as he suggest Congress needs to, and I agree with tdiinva and roping and a couple others that the first step is to allow senior enlisted and officers to carry, after proper training, on base.
That can move down in the ranks as time and lessons learned pass, as the time and resources to add that training is huge, and would take away from more necessary training for how to fight and win on the battlefield.
Look, the only way to change the culture on gun-rights, or as Ralph terms it, “the culture war”, is stay in the fight, engage, and inform and educate. Because the difference in values and integrity between more and more civilians who vote for politicians who have never served, is growing. Its like two Americas, and that alone is alarming to the prog-tards, as you can see from the hysterical fear of “militias” or “vets with PTSD” or some of the wargames scenarios for FEMA, or the hysteria over anti-“assault rifle”, anti-hunting, anti-meat, etc kind of progtard generalizatsions and other forms of group-think that passes for academic thinking on too many campuses, and in too many “news” outlets these days.
And dont forget to vote, donate time and money to those who think the way you do, and to NRA, SAF, GOA and your state orgs to move the ball, legally, in winnable challenges to bad law.
And remember- you dont persuade anyone if you start the conversation with an insult, or punch them in the nose. So lets practice some restraint here, to start.
And most important- lets avoid the circular firing squads here- the progtards will send trolls here to start that $hit up, and there are some people with loose screws who have their own issues- I feel for ya, but take that somewhere else, ok?
Remember- we want TTAG to be that “clean, well-lit space” – Hemingway
You know what’s caused me to hate the idea of smart guns? Video games.
Hear me out, I’m going somewhere with this. As many of you may know, the most recent generation of video game systems come with wireless controllers as standard equiment. Like all wireless electronics, they run on battery power. Well, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been in the middle of a close match and gotten that “Your Controller Battery Is Low” warning light. Then I have to go searching for the charging cable and by the time I’ve got everything ready again I’ve usually lost. The batteries always seem to peter out at the worst possible time.
And I can’t think of a worse time for a battery to fail than when I need it to fire a gun when my life is on the line.
If you open carry, heighten situational awareness is a must. If you have a kydex holster, adjust the friction so it requires a good tug on the firearm to remove from the holster. Get it to the point where the belt almost moves upward when withdrawing the firearm.
If you open carry, think about carrying a backup gun. You never want someone to steal your open carry firearm, but you don’t want to be defenseless if someone does.
If they are such a great thing, why not outfit every/ all LEO capacity alphabet agency and the military with smart guns to prove how great they are?
I am watching it again and again and again…..Still, I don’t remember anything from before or after she said that she remembers her M16.
Better ban their reproductive organs too. Those things are nothing but trouble.
This is a conversation that needs to be brought up with fellow gun owners at gatherings, family events, at the range. I’ve talked 3 people out of this smart gun bs so far. One was so into the tech I had to wait for her I-phone to die 20 minutes later to show her that battery powered tech does not belong on a defensive weapon.
What a tragedy
Good thoughts on retention holsters.
Serpas suck and it is way too easy to have a ND with one.
I prefer Safariland retention technology
Doesn’t take a lot of digging to see the connections here:
SMART GUNS FOUNDATION – doesnt list its board members, and you wont find its first filing of IRS required form for another 14 months or so- but heres a start, from its own webpage-
“Famed Silicon Valley investor and gun reform advocate Ron Conway is spearheading a new $1 million prize for gun safety technology. The prize, which was announced last fall, is now taking applications”.
Journalist Rob Cox promoted as starting “Sandy Hook Promise”
http://www2.sandyhookpromise.org/
Touting education on gun safety education and mental health, sounds good right…until you see goal number one and two: mental health via— background checks. Build community…ie names collections and databases.
CNN is pushing the meme that smart-gun technology could save lives…
citing sources like: Ladd Everitt, communications director of the Washington D.C.-based Coalition to Stop Gun Violence.
Remember CNN is that “news” organization that STILL hasnt run a story on the “Second Most Influential California Democrat” Sen (D) Leland Yee, who just happened to be one of the key anti-gun legislators who got caught up in GUN-RUNNING VIA ISLAMIC terrorists and Chinese gangs.
So, yes, there is a quiet, well-funded, national collaboration underway, and we who believe in 2A rights need to stay engaged, be informed, and pass the word. Most important- vote, contribute to groups that support us, and give money and time to the politicians who support personal liberty, rather than top-down, progressive behind the scenes “community organizers”.
We all see how well solar power and electric cars when directed top down by Federal subsidies has worked out- can anyone here remember A123 (funded by major US taxpayer grants, and bk just before going to the Chinese – now named “b234”. How about Solyndra, Tesla, – I could go on like this all day…
Remember- more laws wont force the lawbreakers to stop using guns. Making guns MORE expensive and hard to obtain by regular folks, will only disarm the legal gun owners, and put them at risk. Proof being the CA Roster of Guns, and this latest nitwittery- “smart guns”.
““If it saves even one life, it’s worth mandating,” demagogues cry”…if they TRULY believed this, then gun ownership would be mandated. Again they want to restrict our freedoms more and more every day.
Costas is a pretentious and sanctimonious tool He’s specifically talking about pro athletes, people who have been treated differently and worshiped their entire lives because of the money they can bring others. Many of them, the ones we hear about doing stupid things with guns, lack the self-control and self-awareness required to make smart decisions on their own. That’s why they have agents, managers and handlers. He does not ONCE mention the majority of gun owning athletes who never do anything stupid. Forget the fact by mentioning athletes he leaves out the rest of the population. In addition, he’s supposedly a journalist, but he’s going to use the number of Google mentions as a barometer of gun violence?
No, Mr. Costas, you are irresponsible and completely wrong with your commentary.
Excellent article. Thank you.
If we believe that a person’s rights are granted by the Creator (or naturally inherent), then by what authority can another person take any of those rights away?
The only occassion where it’s justified to violate someone’s rights is in legitimate defense of your own rights (or the rights of others).
No free man shall be debarred the use of arms…..Thomas Jefferson.
Felons have at least the same risk of being robbed, killed, assaulted, as any other man on the street. A felon that is going back to a life of crime won’t worry about the law when arming himself, so laws preventing felons from owning guns only stop the ones who wish to be law abiding.
Well stated, sir!
“Jones admitted to anticrime cops from the 73rd Precinct…”
Wait. What? Anticrime cops?
As opposed to Pro-crime cops?
What this question addresses is really an issue of edge cases. On the one hand, felons upon release from prison are indeed likely to face victimization by virtue of the more limited living and working options available to them by virtue of being felons. In this case it would seem reasonable to restore their rights. On the other, recidivism is a real and pressing problem. This means that an appreciable portion of the people whose rights were restored would use those rights to re-offend. I do not believe that there is a clear solution that would not create as many problems as it solved.
As cheesy as it may sound, jail/ prison changes people. Even if they were not convicted of a violent crime there’s a 99.9% chance that they will leave prison and end upright back in.
When you run in “those” circles, that’s the life you chose, and those are the chances you take…If you’re a convicted felon, you’ve already proven that you’re too irresponsible to own/possess ANY kind of firearm…the crime in of itself really doesn’t matter, it’s the irresponsibility that you’ve shown that dictates…
Well, felons also have more of a reason to keep stuff private too, yet part of the deal when they get out is that they often have consented to having their stuff searched. Part of the punishment is having rights taken away, on top of being locked up. This is not a liberty issue – society sets the norm for whats appropriate punishment. Don’t like it, don’t commit a felony.
As far as whether violent felons get rights back, if they are really an imminent danger they should be locked up. On the other hand, the punishment should be severe enough to discourage the behavior. If you kill or rape someone, I dont care if you ever get any rights back. Don’t do it. And, consider yourself lucky to be alive.
The idea of prison or jail is to pay your debt to society. If the justice system believes you are eligible to be free, then upon completion of probation, you should have all rights restored.
I have a problem with top-down, mandatory sentencing guidelines, as part of this same thinking- too many relatively harmless people have been incarcerated for small stupid things like marijuana possesion for personal use, or small time dealing- if states are now passing laws to legislate that, its high time the federal government and states turned these people free, and change the laws.
I think most long time cops agree. The War on Drugs failed long ago, and only boosts the profits of the narcos, and the US based drug distributors, and those who feed upon it all. Including, it appears, too many Democratic politicians…
Wasnt Shrimp a heroin smuggler….hmmm. Wonder who else has been in on those profits of the Tong, ever since…Kamala Harris, call your office.
PS: before anyone jumps to a conclusion- no of course I do not support drug use, including marijuana which is 10X more dangerous than it was the too many years ago I am willing to admit when I was young. But thats Darwin’s Law in action- if you want to blow up your lungs, mind, and body-thats your business, go right ahead, and faster please.
Just dont come crying to me and expect to pay for your rehab. You are on your own. Consequences matter.
I see ZERO reason to open carry. None. I carry appendix in a sticky holster concealed. There is virtually no printing of the weapon and I can draw and fire damn fast. With the right position, I can carry all day long.
The biggest reason to I choose to carry concealed, I don’t WANT people to know I’m carrying! I see no reason to advertise that fact. Doing so draws unwanted eyes and attention, including cops or some idiot who is afraid of flavor crystals and calls the cops because someone has a gun. I want to be invisible. I want to blend in like a taxi on a NY city street, not like a cop on a horse in NY that EVERYONE notices. When a person open carries, they lose a huge degree of (element of surprise) In a tactical situation, element of surprise can mean the difference between surviving or not. Every tactical edge one can employ increases chances of success.
Should we have the right to open carry? You bet, but I see virtually no reason for the average citizen to open carry.
Just think if everyone in that room had a gun and the idiot broke the door down wanting to kill everyone.
The idiot would have more holes than swiss cheese.
If you live a clean life after for a number of years you can petition the court to restore your gun rights. You even check yes as a felon on the atf form.
Maybe it’s just me, but at first I was thinking the (poor) phrasing meant that “built for those that everyone knows about.” Most people know about SWAT police and the dangerous situations they are called into, hence, no need for introduction. I didn’t get at first it was about “no-knock” raids. I, of course, could be wrong.
My mom called to tell me about this. I just moved out of that area last month.
The guy that did the shooting was my MRI technician twice. Nice guy, everyone liked him. So weird to read about him flipping out and killing someone.
Also, we really need to put some effort into training LEOs better. I’ve done retention training at a couple of the classes I have taken, and LEOs should be better trained than me if they expect to prevent this type of thing.
We trust our military personnel to carry firearms when they are in a war zone, and trust them to not shoot the good guys, but only the bad guys. Why should we not trust them to do the same when they are not in the war zone?
The right to self defense applies everywhere at all times.
Why do they just lose the 2nd Amendment and not the 1st? Why is it that we keep allowing it to be about the possession and ownership of guns? They lose the right to bear arms, but still have free speech–and almost all their other rights. This is only about getting the guns away from us one slice of society at a time. No, felons should not lose their rights except for while they are incarcerated. Once they let you out, you should be free again. If you are proven to be so dangerous that you can’t be trusted to own a gun, then why get out at all? Completely violent, dangerous people could be locked up instead of pot heads and deadbeat dads. There’s another issue–how is deadbeat dad going to support his children from inside prison?
It’s amazing how much Caleb gets factually wrong in the middle of forming his opinion.
This pretty much forms a context for concluding that his opinion is (to put it charitably) “uninformed”.
For those less circumspect, let’s just call his opinion by its proper name: bullshit.
Most of these “felons” shouldnt be in the first place. The absolute least the state can do for stealing a decade of life from you for causing no harm to amyone or any property is leave your rights such as they are intact.
After a lifetime of lust for firearms and their use, I have had this internal struggle for the last year or two. Because something is new …
I’ve settled of late, on the phrase “carnie crowd” to describe the marketing shills, inflated ego folks, and Cliff Clavins of the gun world.
Now we have Caleb. Someone who sees training so vital that he needs to dissect the elbow alignment and foot placement of trainees. The young man Caleb, who while polishing his own buttons, (like I care), needs to denigrate others. Kind of like the Cha-Cha folks blasting the Rumba dancers. It begs the question, WHY? Just for the copy? More words to self-impress?
If Caleb had investigated and found financial fraud, abuse, drug selling, that might be worth a scree or two. But outdated techniques? WTF is he to pronounce techniques outdated? Does Front Site impart skills to the students? Yes? than they learned something. Is the goal to make them Ninja warriors like Caleb? No. From what I have read from the good Dr. it is to make the students wiser than when they entered his facility. From the couple of friends I have that have experience there, they enjoyed it.
So Caleb just goes into my cluttered box of carnie’s.
Bob must be a raysiss…..
Until you become an American citizen…then and only then.
Yeah I’m pretty sure most drug dealers have people that want to shoot them… not a great reason to hand them permits.
Didn’t mel brooks do this at the end of History of the World Part 1?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybuKQf9p5jg
Smart gun are just the opposite!
Yep local cops are my buddies. Yeah, sure.
Annual Norris Family Reunion Hockey Game
Frozen 2.
I always go to the drive through ATM so there’s at least SOMETHING between me and somebody. Another good thing is to always take somebody with you. Strength in numbers.
But avoiding ATM’S is legit advice too
My wife wont use ATMs for this reason. Easier for her to get the cash out of me. I also only use drive up atm so I have something between me and the numbnuts. finally, learn to pocket carry and keep one hand on your heater and use the non-dominant hand to type in pin code and get the $$
Some of the people commenting above just don’t get it. It really is this simple:
The Declaration Of Independence (one of our founding documents) says, “We hold these truths to be self-evident. That ALL MEN are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights; that among these [rights] are LIFE, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.”
ALL MEN (and women [per the Equal Rights Amendment]) includes people from all parts of the world. Aliens (legal and illegal) are still people. And the right to LIFE includes self-defense against criminals and tyrannical government. The 2nd Amendment says, “the right of THE PEOPLE [not just citizens] to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
All of the rights listed in the Bill of Rights are HUMAN rights (for “the people”), not CITIZEN rights.
Pop into the local large supermarket and grab a few staples… Beer… Milk… Bread
Then use your ATM card at checkout and add a hundred to the machine you key your pin into… A side benifit is no out of network charge either…. I have done this for years on many cross nation trips.. Some markets may limit you to $50 over your tab but most will do $100 and some will go to $200
Normal situation awareness on getting back to your car but you will have a bag full of beer bottles to swing or offer as in hey man I just spent all my cash on this beer…. Joke
About a year ago I was working late second shift, pulled up to my local atm at 1 in the morning to withdraw my share of rent. I can hear someone talking in a mumbled voice on the other side of the atm but can’t see him. I stopped the transaction before the withdrawal and drove off, turns out it was a dude walking his dog, but that’s why I never put the vehicle in park at a drive up, lets me do what I did.
When there were teenagers in my house, I was the ATM….I started calling my wallet “The Black Hole.” I got so used to not having any money in my pocket that even now I rarely have more than a few bucks. Debit cards rule. And I absolutely hate outside ATMs.
I think Moms Demand Action is exploiting the general public’s lack of knowledge about retention holsters to fear-monger and make open carrying out to be a more dangerous activity than it is.
Does anyone have the links to some really good videos explaining the basics of how retention holsters work?
When OC’ing, one makes a subconscious decision to have the BG focus on them rather than anyone else. I would rather have the BG target me than some defenseless person or persons. Live by the sword die by the sword kind of thing. I am not LEO but work in armed security and am former military. Retention is an absolute must but like so many before me have pointed out, situational awareness is paramount to any form of defense or offense bar none. I’m not bagging on the cop, but it sounds as if his personal assumption cost him his edge. Being comfortable in a routine often leads to waste of many forms and is a professional hazard. Assume nothing and your chances of a foul up are minimized