“Stories of Navy personnel being charged with an offense are not true. There is still a long way to go in reviewing the facts of this tragic incident, but at this time we can confirm no service member has been charged with an offense.” U.S. Navy statement [via Facebook]
They won’t charge him. Just place a letter of caution in his service record and his career will end when he fails to select.
Yep…end of career, all because he choose to unlawfully self defend.
Make sure put double quotation marks around the word “unlawfully” when you connect that word to self defend.
Correct. Should have said “unlawfully” disregarded orders of his superiors to lawfully self defend.
“Correct. Should have said “unlawfully” disregarded orders of his superiors to lawfully self defend.”
Allow me to correct that:
Should have said “unlawfully” disregarded orders of his superiors to lay on the ground and piss themselves, as defense from islamic terrorists, or more commonly known as work place violence.
More like chose to lawfully defend himself in disregard to unlawful orders. We always have the right to self defense, he was lawful in using deadly force while defending himself against a deadly thread. He was probably under orders not to carry a firearm, so he’s probably got an article 92 there in addition to whatever federal charges from carrying a gun in a free fire, I mean gun free zone.
TLDR, he was lawful in defending himself with a gun that happened to be in his possession. He was not lawful in having the gun.
Can you please explain what you mean by the term “select” in the context of the sailors carreer?
I am assuming that select might refer to a sailor choosing to re-up after his initial period of enlistment. ? ? ?
When an Officer, you don’t re-up your contract. You go to a board review and they decide if your retained.
An officer’s commission never expires. One meets selection boards for promotion. You don’t meet a board review to remain on duty. You can be RIF’ed (reduction in force-down sizing the troop levels) or can be administratively discharged for improper conduct.
If you fail to select for the next rank you separate at your high year tenure point for the grade you are in. Its a little different for Reservists but hopefully he has or is close to having enough points to retire.
MK10108; That’s not quite accurate. He may remain on duty until he either resigns his commission; is not selected for promotion twice and not offered “Continuation until retirement eligibility”; or retires if he has already completed 20 years of military service. If he is a freshly promoted Major, he may not even be up for promotion until years from now (depending on when he pinned on his current rank). Under the Reserve Officer’s Personnel Management Act (ROPMA), he will be considered for promotion to Lt Colonel approx 6 yrs after he was promoted to Major. At least that’s how it works in the AF Reserve and ANG (I’m a 26 year commissioned officer in the AFRES)
All are correct. I went with the layman explanation. In 93 our government was RIFing service members with 17.5 years. Back then, if you made 18 years, they would retain until 20 for retirement.
The next wave of RIFing is coming, 40k over the mortar tube, thank you for your service here’s your DD214.
Whatever happened to “march to the sound of the guns”?
If he’s an officer, he’d have a better chance if he had multiple DUIs.
“… at this time we can confirm no service member has been charged with an offense.” U.S. Navy statement
How can you possibly charge someone with a “crime” for defending his or herself?
How long will the Navy have to review the facts of the incident before declaring whether the seaman is a “criminal” for defending himself?
Cause your supposed to follow orders, not be armed, and die for your country, instead of making fools of Naval leadership.
Ask some of the many European nations where it is a crime.
The original rumors revolved around potential charges for illegal possession of a firearm while on duty/ on federal property, and illegal discharge of a firearm on federal property, as federal properties are generally gun free zones, or the military code of justice parallels to such crimes.
How long will the Navy have to review the “facts”? As soon as the shooting is declared as a non terrorist act those Navy gentleman are screwed big time all for defending themselves.
They are waiting until the national consciousness passes this incident by, and in the meantime, figuring out how exactly to charge a soldier for killing a terrorist in defense of other soldiers without causing a firestorm of criticism.
How long before the Navy can say Muslim Terrorists? Or Islam and Muslims are the problem?
His career is over. He is alive as well as others he protected. That’s a win!
Leave it too the Navy politicians they would F**K up a wet Dream
Non of our retard politicos understand they cannot protect us by Edict but yet do everything in their power preventing us from doing it ourselves! personalty
vote these Anti-American Treasonous & Seditious brown eye lovers out of office, get some real people in there that will not sell out too the highest bidder!
Only person facing discipline or prosecution should be anybody who would consider charging an on-duty uniformed military member for defending his post from an armed attack — whether himself being armed was technically illegal or not. Just pretend he through office supplies at the attacker. Pretend there was a second attacker and he managed to Jack Bauer/Ethan Hunt/John McClane his weapon away from him to use against the other attacker. We need a sense of proportion here, as a nation and within the armed forces.
“Only person facing discipline or prosecution should be anybody who would consider charging an on-duty uniformed military member for defending his post from an armed attack …”
You win the Intertubez for the month!
I tip my hat to you, sir.
Second the motion, ayes have it, gavel drop.
For those unaware; in the .mil competition for promotion becomes cutthroat the higher one goes, especially for officers. Good assignments also can come down to politics as well-does your commander/boss like you enough for a recommendation letter for that Rully Rully Cool Military Job ?
As such, one need not be explicitly jailed or hit with NJP to be punished.
If the higher ups hate your guts but they don’t have legal/political grounds to explicitly sack you, you’ll be denied promotion and stonewalled until you’re gone. Special duty? LoL son.
Commissioning/ Education programs? Nyet.
Retraining into that awesome job you really want? Heres a Nelson Muntz ha-ha for ya.
Better to be alive and washed out of the Navy for being politically incorrect than to be dead.
Looking at the bigger picture, however, we need to flood such institutions with honorable people. And those honorable people need to wash out Communist and Progressive sympathizers whose idea of being politically correct means mandating that people die unnatural deaths in an unnaturally and forcibly unarmed condition.
It doesn’t matter how many “good people” join the armed services, you will never dislodge the progressives. We have ‘civilian control of the military’. The Secretary of Defense and the Secretary of the Navy (and Army, and Air Force) are civilians appointed by The President. They make all the real policy decisions. They are political cronies of The President or loyal apparatchiks of his party, or of the Military Industrial Complex itself. The execution of policy is carried out by an ‘army’ of civilian bureaucrats within the Department of Defense and the military service departments. This ‘army’ of Government Service employees doesn’t give a s**t about you, your family, your community, your state, the republic nor the rule of law. They care about their steady paycheck, flexible work hours, generous benefits and gold-plated retirement. They get all that by NOT being creative, NOT being innovative, NOT being efficient, and above all else by NOT rocking the boat! Any uniformed service member, regardless of high rank or position who defies this bureaucracy is crushed and cast aside. Most “good people” don’t make it that far. “Good people” recognize the system for what it is and quit, or they sacrifice their principles to protect and promote their careers thus becoming “bad people”.
Most people have never heard of the court martial of General Billy Mitchell. Yes the military has put a hero on trial because they did the wrong thing making the leadership look bad. The only thing that could save this marine would be if he claimed he is homosexual. Then he will be a hero. If not then they will court martial a straight married marine with at least one child. He may not go to prison but he will not retire from the corps.
The military traded one deserter for five enemy generals. The Pentagon was quite, because not even a one star let alone a four star officer will not be in the field being shot at. That video screen in the nice a/c filled room with coffee and donuts is better than an MRE and hot lead flying through the air.
The days when marine general Alexander Patch hit the beach on Guadalcanal with his men armed with a Winchester shot gun are long gone.
Sailor, not Marine.
Chris, while it’s correct that Major General Alexander Patch USA commanded both Army and Marine Corps troops on Guadalcanal in 1942-1943, he did so only after MajGen Alexander Vandegrift USMC and the 1st Marine Division had spent some months making it safe for the Army to come ashore. The only exception to that is that the Army’s 3rd Battalion, 164th Infantry was ashore early to assist in the Defense of Henderson Field from fanatical Japanese attacks. It was from these troops that the Marines (armed with 1903 Springfields) got their first good look at the M1 rifle and recognized its superiority, after which they “scrounged” as many M1s from the Army as they could lay hands on until the ’03s were withdrawn and M1s issued to Marine Corps combat units in late 1942-early 1943.
I am thinking that just maybe the powers that be realize that if this officer is charged that the press and some congress critters will have a field day with those who bring charges. Might be better to wait until the support dies down before any consideration is made.
Nobody in the military likes light put on a situation that they helped to create, so this man’s career is likely over. See Oliver North, General Paul Lavalle, General McChristal, etc.
I fail to see how this situation in any way compares to Billy MItchell. He publically charged Congress with Criminal Misconduct because they wouldn’t build an air force he thought the country needed, a very far cry to the situation at hand.
But, the facts remain. The military members in this situation did purposely violate standing orders and directives and the problem will have to be dealt with. If they take no action whatsoever, it could be construed that the order can be disregarded at will. Never mind that the order/directive is on the far side of stupid. One would think that the Ft Hood shootings would have taught them something, but by and large, General officers are about even with members of Congress when it comes to common sense-or the lack thereof.
” Never mind that the order/directive is on the far side of stupid. “
No sir, I will NOT “nevermind” that fact.
That is the central point of this issue.
Isn’t there something about Soldiers, Sailors and Marines have a DUTY to violate unlawful orders? Well, how about IMMORAL ones? (One would hope those two sets overlap, but unfortunately, they do not).
Where is that line crossed? We keep hearing that our nation is “at war” with terrorists/ISIS/other baddies all the time…that “they” plan attacks here and specifically have announced targeting military personnel AND THEIR FAMILIES in their homes.
So, is an order disarming individuals WHILE ON DUTY/WATCH and IN UNIFORM at an OFFICIAL military posting immoral or not?
I’d say so…most certainly. Beyond any moment of doubt or question.
The very debate over “legality” of this issue demonstrates exactly how far we’ve sunk as a nation and as a people. That this is even discussed as an “issue” depicts such a lack of will to stand in place in the world that it simply boggles the mind.
If one needs evidence that the progressives, and weak progressives at that, have completely taken over our nation…this topic is it.
The RIGHT answer is to laugh in the face of anyone that even DARES to suggest that a Soldier/Sailor/Marine NOT be armed during ‘wartime’ while on post.
Don’t know when you served, but in my years on active duty, which stretched from Nixon to Reagan, if you violated such an order, you can bet on a one way ticket to Ft Leavenworth, and not on the good side of that post. It may be different now.
The military tells you in very vague language that you have the right to violate an unlawful order, but you violate them at your peril.
See Article 134 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. If found guilty, max sentence Bad-conduct discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 1 year.
Good thing Thomas Jefferson was not quite the “follower,” eh?
There’s a larger point here …
“So, is an order disarming individuals WHILE ON DUTY/WATCH and IN UNIFORM at an OFFICIAL military posting immoral or not?”
Personally, I would say that such an order is beyond immoral, it is treason plain and simple. I don’t know a better way to provide aid and comfort to our nation’s enemies than to command our armed forces to be unarmed.
How is such an order (that service men and women MUST be unarmed) any different than a commander ordering a body of troops to stand down at the border and allow an invading army to proceed into the United States?
And what ever happened to our Second Amendment? Where in the Hell does anyone get the idea that military personnel do not have their Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms? All the gun-grabbers constantly cry and whine that the Second Amendment only applies to the organized militia and military. Well?
Thank-you; you get my point.
Not to trivialize the issue, but the rot has gone farther than we may have expected and is serving to further destroy the society we would hope to live in. Men and women who take an oath to protect this nation and its Constitution against “all enemies, foreign and domestic” are denied their basic natural, civil and Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms in order to carry out that oath! And where do we look to see how pervasive this rot has become? The Boy Scouts of America, originally a pseudo paramilitary organization intended to turn young boys into virtuous and patriotic men, has finally been forced by the Progressives to allow openly homosexual men to be Scoutmasters!
If the BSA had a compound and a fence I would make a pilgrimage there and throw all my badges and awards back over it at them. My military awards I earned before this PC crap got too bad in the Army, so I will keep those, but I wouldn’t advise anybody to sacrifice their young sons to the BSA at this point, nor advise young men to join this PC military establishment.
Would be well advised to discover is Moslem side.
Has anyone contacted him for an interview? Someone here knows the guy.
Likely will never again be promoted but if in the public eye may be able to stay in. Needs to demand a courtmartial.
Let me say up front that despite his violating orders, I believe the man saved lives and did his duty. If I were given the opportunity, I’d decorate that sailor.
I don’t know the wisdom of demanding a courts martial, because I fear they will charge him with a whole ton of things he could not skate out of. Conduct Unbecoming is the catch all under the UCMJ, and even if they amended the order regarding the carry of personal firearms, he still falls under the law in effect at the time if the military chooses to do so, unless some provision is made.
Knowing the way the military reacts to such things, I do believe some action will be brought against him, be it allowing his time to run out or worse. My fear is worse, and I pray that I am completely wrong.
If its any consolation to him, I would bet a shiny buffalo nickel that if he has to hang up the uniform that there are a lot of people who would hire him on the spot, and with a much better paycheck than he receives now.
That sailor may become the very first ever prisoner-of-war in the United States of America … for defending himself and the United States of America from sworn enemies.
When is Congress going to FIRE all of the upper brass in the military?
The resolution of this officer’s case is taking a while because the Navy called in their investigators to sort things out and determine what the facts were after the rather sensationalistic press coverage of the incident. If the LCDR violated orders by having his personal pistol with him and using it when under attack, well, in the eyes of his military commanders that doesn’t excuse anything, because orders are orders and one disobeys them at one’s peril, even if there is a question about their legality/morality. In the eyes of Big Navy, officers are supposed to set the example for subordinates by obeying orders, which this guy technically didn’t do, and he will (somehow) pay for that. I suspect that the LCDR will not be brought up on charges for his disobedience (if that is determined to be the case) due to the public opinion firestorm that would result, but I’m confident that the Navy will get him in other subtle ways, some already mentioned here: Counselling sessions recorded in his official file, which will have an adverse effect on his being selected for the next higher rank and force him out eventually; ensure his Fitness Report evaluation remarks reflect “average” (with today’s inflated fitness report grades, that would be the kiss of death to his career); transfer him to Kodiak Island as OIC of the rock-painting platoon, and have him watched like a hawk for any future high crimes or misdemeanors (like not tying his shoe laces left-over-right) and bust him and cashier him for that. There are lots of ways a Navy officer’s superiors can give him the Green Weenie for deviances from the order-mandated straight-and-narrow path. I’m retired from the Marines, and we often heard about how one’s loyalty to a commander could be expressed by respectfully disagreeing with bad decisions, and that we were also bound to disobey unlawful orders (heard a LOT about that after the My Lai murders), but the reality lies in conformity and never pissing off one’s superiors so one can get ahead. I don’t think this guy will make that cut just because he had the cajones to defend himself by whatever means possible.
It’s the good order and discipline part civilians have a hard time understanding. Anyone in the military can violate an order but do so at “your peril”. The qualifier here is combat and this event musters action taken. They’ll offer NJP to sweep under the rug, if he elects court martial that puts leadership in a bind. Keep in mind, it’s suspected two handguns were brought to bear against the terrorist. If so it will reflect on the command. What I would love to see, is the Commanding Officer take one for his team and offer up he directed them to be armed. That way the Lt. Commander would be spared.
I completely agree. The military will never allow members, being enlisted, warrant or commissioned to pick and choose which lawful orders they can safely ignore, unless the issued order is so repugnant that to follow it would bring legal jeopardy to themselves.
Make no mistake, this administration earnestly desires to charge Lt Cmdr White. This disgusts me to the core – that anyone in our nation’s military leadership and political administration would do such a thing. Lt Cmdr White has done the unforgivable – he failed to sacrifice his life upon the idiotic altar of gun control. Worse, he has paved the way for future non-compliance with statist orders.
Every political machination that can be brought against the Lt Cmdr without causing a riot of patriotic outrage is being considered. I’ll be watching closely.
First off, Air Foresters, he is navy so he is a Lieutenant Commander, not a Major. Same pay, different title. As for self defense, saying he can’t protect his personnel and himself is a big bunch of horse hooey. Just another ploy by half white, Muslim, raised by commies leadership to undermine our country. That clown in the Southwest who ordered his college ROTC cadets to march in a parade in red high heels needs to strung up by the ‘nards just like the clown who had his scout troop parade with rainbow flags. The scout oath reads, “to God and my country” and the Bible frowns on homosexuality. Don’t throw your awards away, folks. You earned them when the scouts was a group without such stupidity. Same for your military service awards. I now wonder, though, about the ribbon that is all the rainbow colors. I don’t know which one; non-combat overseas deployment, or completion of MOS training school, something like that. All this malarkey is more a sign of the end of times than anything else I have seen. Truth is, no Republic (not true republic) have lasted much more than 200 years, so why should we be any different?