Home News Quote of the Day: Just Like You and Me, Only Better News Quote of the Day: Just Like You and Me, Only Better By Dan Zimmerman - August 18, 2013 52 Facebook Twitter Pinterest WhatsApp Email “It was an isolated act of carelessness, and not a course of conduct displaying reckless disregard for human life.” – Florida State Attorney Mark Ober in Fla. deputy demoted for leaving gun in theater [at usatoday.com] Post Views: 7 RELATED ARTICLESMORE FROM AUTHOR Colorado School Shooter Planned to Kill His Accomplice, Look Like a ‘Hero’ FBI Created Its Own Encrypted Communications Ap to Monitor, Take Down Criminal Organizations A Sign of Things to Come? Gun Control Bill Fails to Pass in California 52 COMMENTS It took Hussey ninety minutes to realize his pistol was missing? That must of been one very comfortable holster as I always know when my pistol is in my IWB n82 holster. Reply “It was an isolated act of carelessness, and not a course of conduct displaying reckless disregard for human life.” I see no distinction between these two examples asside from potential causality and eventual effect. Again we see a claused example of disproportionate prosecution of classes. Not that I digress in making the statement of forgiveness, but we must consider it ambiguously on mitigating circumstances. Reply Eschew obfuscation. Reply them words sure is purty Reply Shame the last sentence has no understanding of the use of the word “ambiguous”. Someone needs to get out of the gender studies classes. Eschew surplusage. Reply One of the rules of good writing: “Don’t use a big word when a diminutive one will do.” The rules are written in such a way that they violate the said rule, to further demonstrate what it means. Reply What would have happened to a citizen who made the same mistake? Just sickens me. Reply This is why we need an independent tribunal to review cases of officer misconduct. This bullshit of letting the government decide if the government did anything wrong needs to go, NOW. Reply “The “IRS/White House/DHS/Police/FBI/ATF/EPA/NSA” have completed their internal investigation and found no evidence of wrongdoing.” Every. Freaking. Time. How many times have we heard this statement in just the past 6 months? Reply Exactly. Every. Single. Time. Then of course there’s the occasional “they will receive an extra vacation as punishment” BS. This is like letting children decide when they are misbehaving instead of the parent determining if they are acting appropriately or not. I think a demotion is an appropriate punishment. Mistakes do happen, no one was hurt, he is punished. This is the type of mistake you can learn from. It seems refreshing that he was punished at all. if the rest of his record is exemplary, then this punishment will do. Reply The only fit punishment is whatever a non-government employee would suffer for doing the same thing. Likely it would mean losing your right to own / carry a gun for life and possibly a few months in jail. Reply Do you have any record of that happening to anyone or are you just making that up? Reply http://www.katu.com/news/local/Man-who-left-gun-under-seat-has-permit-revoked-184355211.html Bingo, bango, bongo. As a former USAF SP, reading these kinds of stories about the conduct of civilian police officers, it is obvious to me that we had a much higher standard of conduct than civilian police. Carelessness with a firearm was never tolerated. There is simply no excuse for leaving a firearm unattended in a public place. Absolutely none. Period. Demotion? How about immediate termination and possible criminal charges. Reply I can’t speak for the USAF, but in the Army a few years ago, leaving a weapon was punished by one of the following; Massively painful PT to exhaustion (if you were a man and they liked you) Article 15 plus option 1 (if you were a man and they didn’t) Walking around for a month with the weapon tied to you (if you were a woman). Or, Nothing (if you outranked the guy who found your weapon and found him before he found your 1SG). Not saying it’s right. Reply Shoulder Holster. I’ll say it again, Shoulder Holster. Try a Shoulder Holster! Also, what if he had been using a Shoulder Holster? Reply Do they make those in inside the waistband? If not I’m not sure I’m getting what you mean? Can you explain more? Reply Florida in the summer. You can’t wear anything that would conceal a shoulder holster in Florida in the summer. Reply Well, not without sweating your nuts off. Reply Lightweight under shirt, maybe even a sleeveless wife beater, shoulder holster, loose hawaiian shirt or short sleeve button down. Or if you’re one of those southerners that manage to never sweat, just rock your seersucker like you do. Reply Don Johnson could. And he had a 10mm. And probably better hair. But really, what kind of plain-clothes daintily puts his piece on the toilet tank? Not exactly a fast-recovery placement. Perhaps he was puking, not the other bit? Reply Keep it holstered. Problem solved. Reply Hard to do whilst going #2… Reply Only if you have a crappy holster. My gun stays in place just fine when using an Old Faithful holster. Reply Doing it at this moment. Reply Too much information. Agreed…and agreed. It wasn’t easy, especially at first, and it’s kind of inconvenient still, but I’ve developed a routine that keeps the gun holstered and on my person at all times. I can’t afford to lose my gun or my permit to carry it. And the thought of someone maybe getting killed because some dumb kid or amoral gangbanger came across my gun gives me the willies. I don’t want that on my conscience. Don’t set it down anywhere. Find a way to keep it on you, or don’t carry it. That is all. Reply Liberals are fueled by double standards Reply Are you suggesting law enforcements agencies are liberal? Reply No Reply Yeah, many of them are – at least the high level officials and chiefs that have been successfully politicized. Reply What would happen to a civilian in this circumstance? Every seems to make the assumption they would be arrested and charged with. . . and that’s where the concept ends. I’d be happy to be enlightened but I simply can’t think of a law that prohibits the unintentional loss of a firearm. Is there a separate law against having one fall out of your vehicle or is it covered under the same one as forgetting where you put it? It’s pretty damn irresponsible (read, was he high on something?) but probably not illegal to leave your heater in the men’s room. On that topic though, is a gun left in a bathroom more dangerous than anything else? It seems like anti agitprop. Sure, a kid could find it and . . . one would hope those old enough to go the bathroom by themselves wouldn’t attempt to fire it in much the same way that they don’t eat the soap, drown in the toilet or do any other destructive thing all day. I suppose a criminal could find it, but then again, if armed robbery or murder were their thing there are other, more reliable ways to obtain a gun than checking restroom stalls. Perhaps the underlying assumption is that someone will find it and the evil gun would make them instantly go on a rampage. An unattended firearm is dangerous, sure, but a lot less dangerous (statistically) than the drive to the theater or even just crossing the street. I think this is a tempest in a tea pot. The larger issue is all the real crimes that some groups (police for instance) get away with under our corrupt system. Reply Yea, I’d like an actual lawyer to weigh in on what the probable sentences would be for something like this for a citizen. I’m thinking, especially in Florida, it would be a fine at most. Reply Child endangerment act. A child found this gun, bransished it in public, even if only to give it to his dad, that is a violation of that law. He would be charged with a felony. Reply TIL; telling a parent is brandishing. Reply I think it would be a gamble and a prosecutorial stretch to charge under child endangerment. The language reads as if one must intentionally, knowingly or should have know one was creating a dangerous situation without proper safeguards for children. This is more like leaving the car running and a kid jumped in than the sorts of things the law was meant to address. Could someone be charged? Of course! Should they? No. Would they be convicted. . . not very likely from my reading. Reply If a child, under 18, takes a handgun in public with out immediate supervision it is a felony negligence charge against the owner. Period. Look at the bright side: the dad of the kid who found it at least taught their kid well. Reply Highly trained? Can’t even manage to poop safely. -D Reply Ok, I posted this above in response to Skyler but here is the TTAG link on the initial report: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/12/daniel-zimmerman/irresponsible-gun-owner-of-the-day-gary-quackenbush/ http://www.katu.com/news/local/Man-who-left-gun-under-seat-has-permit-revoked-184355211.html A kid found the gun and turned it in. There was a case in Portland where a state police trooper left their gun in a hospital bathroom not too long ago. Nothing happened to them either IIRC. Reply When going to the loo with a OWB or a IWB holster, unfasten your belt and loop the tongue end around and through the last belt loop on your pants. Tighten. This forms a knot, that will prevent the weight of your gun from pulling your belt out and hitting the floor. It also, allows you to draw your weapon, if attacked while sitting on the toilet. Reply I have tried the trick you suggest–never got it to work. So instead, I have built reholstering into my biological necessities routine when going CC and IWB. Zip, button, buckle, pat holster, replace firearm. I catch myself reaching to reholster at home even. What this guy did is one of my nightmares since numbers 1 and 2 both require me to set my pistol aside. Yes, my holster has good retention. It was custom made for me, and my figure. And you know what? The one time that I trust the holster to retain while upping and downing the britches, it’s going to fall out for whatever crazy ass reason is in the ascendancy in the Murphy Cosmos, clatter on the floor, scoot into the next stall, and cause some gun-scaredy professional peacenik mommy type to go into hysterics and cause me all sorts of problems. This is especially true for women who are fertile and spend a week a month trying to service certain hygenic needs while in restroom stalls that now are no more than four inches wider than the throne, with fixtures sticking out on either sides as well. That is, you don’t just sit down and stand up–there can be a dreary amount of shifting and trying not to leave anything anywhere that would be considered biohazardous. What I suggest is carrying on the belt loop a lanyard with a small carabiner. Transfer the biner to the belt buckle when disarming. That way it won’t be possible to rebuckle without being reminded to reholster. The same trick can be used with a borelight at the range, to make sure the barrel is clear while sighting in. Reply I have a vague memory about this topic on TTAG a while back. Where, or what do you do with your IWB holster whenever you drop trow at a public toilet. I think a situation like this happening came up. If he was carrying without a holster, or was worried someone would see it from outside the stall, it would seem like a good option, right up until something like this happens. I live in central FL, and use the compression holster from http://www.undertechundercover.com, Coolux mesh tank top with a loose over-shirt. My Sig 228 is secure, and a trip to the loo is never an issue. If you buy the 3 pack for an extra $60 you get the 3rd one free. Right and left carry pockets for 2 gunning or holding extra mags. This is the best I’ve found for hot weather carry. Your significant other will be able to put their arm around your waist without feeling a gun, or compromising your conceal by squashing your shirt. They’ve got them for women too. Hottie girls for RF. Reply Didn’t TTAG run this several months ago? http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/06/frank-williams/daily-digest-6/ There was a follow up when it turned out to be a cop who’d left it there. Couldn’t find it, but I remember it. Reply It may be a PITA to pull my pants up but my gun never comes unholstered in a public restroom. Im not some big muscly macho type by any means but if I can lift a 200+ pound person, I think I can pull my pants up with a gun OWB. I completley agree with an earlier comment by Toten, about an independant tribunal for officer misconduct. Reply I wish I could find a shiny new Glock the next time I use a public restroom. Reply With my luck, the shiney new glock was just stashed there by the guy that used it to whack a VIP. Soon as I picked it up a lathered up swat team would come crashing into the place. Reply A similar thing happened here a few years back and the cop left his firearm in the bathroom of a city maintenance dept garage restroom. The employee cleaning the bathrooms made sure everyone knew he found a firearm and gun belt. The cop was sent for firearms safety retraining on the tax payers dime and lost 2 weeks pay. Reply Due to his record,this Deputy will be back in the investigation department shortly,if he is as good as his file says.I would guess a 90 day wait or no more than 6 months,the Sheriffs department has to do a little PR before they put him back in investigation,I see some type of high profile incident that this Deputy is involved in solving that will be the catalyst to him being reassigned to investigation.Yes if it was a civilian,then they could be charged with endangerment,but it probably wouldn’t be pushed,it is just good that the child’s father had taught his son to tell him if he came across a weapon and not to touch it.Of course stories like these don’t make it to the MSM,because it doesn’t bode well for more gun control against law abiding citizens.Be prepared and ready.Keep your powder dry. Reply HA! Most absurd excuse EVER! Reply LEAVE A REPLY Cancel reply Please enter your comment! Please enter your name here You have entered an incorrect email address! 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