At a recent Connecticut pre-gun ban bill public hearing, Marine Derek Greaves warned the state legislators “this will happen again.” There will be another spree killing like the one at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown Connecticut. Chances are it won’t be exactly the same. It’s hard to imagine another slaughter that takes the lives of 20 children. But not impossible. For those who cherish their Constitutionally protected right to keep and bear arms, that’s a worst case scenario: another spree killer (or killers) armed with an “assault rifle” attacks defenseless children. What if that happens today? Or sometime before Senator Feinstein’s Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 bill hits the skids? Firearms freedom is under the gun like never before. It could get worse. Not to put too fine a point on it, could gun rights survive another Sandy Hook?
The oath you quote is as you say; but incomplete. In that oath you also swore to obey the orders of the President and the Officers appointed over you.
Sadly, your President no longer recognizes or honors the Constitution. He mocks it! He ignores it! And he refuses to listen to those that have served it.
The people “a group of ‘We the People'” that elected him – put him into power for just that purpose. This was what they intended. They have the right to ask that he do what he was elected to do. Will we stand against those people [of our own kind]?
A choice must be made: Will we follow what our forefathers wanted of our Constitution? or will be follow the letter of the law that allows “We the People” to cancel the Constitution in a warped and distorted attempt to prove their freedom by exercising their Right to disband the one document that gives them those Rights?
Many college professors teach just that argument in our institutions of Higher Learning. They teach young minds that they are not “Free” and do not have “Rights” because people like you refuse to allow them to gather together and exercise their rights to vote to take away their rights to gather together and exercise their rights; convoluted as it may appear, it is a powerful argument for these inexperienced minds. i.e. if God is so powerful then can he make a rock so big that even he cannot move it? The resulting possibilities of answers forces a Catch 22 analysis that spirals into insanity. If Yes, then he would not be all powerful. If No, then he is not all powerful.
Likewise, children are being taught that: if the Constitution allows us freedom, then can we exercise that right and give way our own freedom? If not, then we are not free. If yes, prove it by wiping out our freedom.
God forbid, but if it does happen the other side will push for everything… then all bets are off.
Gun rights can survive another Sandy Hook.
The thing I’m worried about is whats going to happen if the shooters don’t have access to guns and use something more effective? It doesn’t take much to build a giant bomb these days, and gas is always available. Add in all sorts of gas attacks through ventilation systems and stuff along those lines and the body count at Sandy Hook is tiny. I think we really need to harden security as a whole to prevent as much of the obvious things as we can. Car bombs and truck bombs can be stopped just by adding reinforced concrete pillars outside the buildings. Ventilation systems need to be protected.
Fire suppressing systems probably need to be upgraded too, it doesn’t take anything more than a super soaker with gasoline in it to burn down a building with a few chains to stop an escape…
Really when you think about it there is no way to stop the next nutjob from killing tons of people as long as we refuse to lock up said nutjobs. Guns are just an ineffective way of getting the body count that makes you famous.
Sorry if it sounds harsh, I’m starting to realize I was safer at home with my mom and dad than at my elementary/middle/high schools. We really need to start locking up bad and super crazy people until they are no longer bad and/or crazy.
The next mass shooting could be our very own Dunblane. Especially if it happens soon. Despite what facts and logic tell US, many people would fall victim to the emotions of such an event, at a time when the emotional outcry against guns is already at its tipping point.
It depends on the scale; if more than half a dozen children are killed by some nut with a modern sporting rifle anytime in the next few months, I will not be surprised to see something along the line of Feinstein’s AWB passing.
No one can take away another individual’s inherent rights. Someone could violate your rights by passing “laws” or forcing you to forfeit your property, but you still have your rights. It doesn’t matter what the “law” says or even what the Constitution says… human rights are inherent!
Now, do I think we could avoid violations of our rights after another Sandy Hook? No way!
I respectfully disagree. The universe enforces things such as the speed of light (186, 282 miles per second…it not just a good idea, it’s the LAW!). There is no such enforcement mechanism for “rights”. Rights are an invented concept, no different in this respect than justice, beauty, etc.
Such things are not inherent in the structure of the universe. Quoting someone far wiser than I on the subject: “Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes. Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost.”
—Robert A. Heinlein, “Starship Troopers”
Rights exist in spite of any enforcement mechanism. You exist, and in the absense of other human interference, you’d continue to exist until you naturally die. Based on that, human interference with your existence would be a violation of your person, your “right” to exist, your “right” to life. If you have a right to life, then you own your own body, your personhood. If you own your body, then you own your labor. If you own your labor, then you own the product of your labor… your property. Rights are inherent based on the fact that we exist. Interfering with another person’s existence is a violation of their rights.
I’m not saying we don’t have to fight for our rights or liberty, I’m saying that they exist regardless of whether or not someone else successfully interfers with them. That is the Natural Law.
Incidentally, there is evidence to suggest that the speed of light may not be so constant after all… so much for LAWs of Physics.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn6092-speed-of-light-may-have-changed-recently.html
My greatest fear is that gun rights won’t be the only thing that won’t survive.
If Second Amendment rights are gone, ALL the others vanish as well, because there’s nothing left to protect them but [AHEM] Good Intentions!
Mike Galanos at HLN used the phrase “semiautomatic rifles that mimic military assault weapons” this morning. Maybe there’s hope.
If we think the push against 2A rights is bad now, imagine what happens if a tragedy occurs with something OTHER than a semi-auto rifle or pistol holding 15, 30, 50 rounds.
If we think the push against 2A rights is bad now, imagine what happens when a tragedy occurs with something OTHER than a semi-auto rifle or pistol holding 15, 30, 50 rounds.
Fixed it for you.
The author linked to a essay of Rousseau’s formulation of the Social Contract in a paragraph that discusses Locke and Hobbes. I would suggest that this is a problem because Locke, Hobbes, and Rousseau were not in agreement. Hobbes and Rousseau thought the State was just as long as it carried the General Will, and they made no allowance for the continuation of personal rights once the State was formed. Locke insisted that man’s rights are not totally surrendered to the State, and that citizens have the duty to oppose rulers that seek unlimited power.
I would highly recommend for the author to look into the differences.
What’s going to rock is when it happens again AFTER an AWB. Then after the next ban, then again.
Because these school massacres have nothing to do with guns other than that’s the tool used to kill. Same day as Newtown, it happened in China with knives. The UK has a massive problems with knives.
Because none of this has to do with guns. It has to do with a destroyed culture of death worship that has lost it’s reverance for life. It has to do with extremely demented mentally ill people not being treated. We also have a political class of people who desire power and no challenge to it.
Until those things are addressed, it will continue no matter how much you disarm the honest law abiding people.
I sincerely hope that logic would prevail. However the emotional knee-jerk response, strengthened by a fresh barrage of endless media hype would be difficult to overcome.
It’s astounding to think of all the time and energy Americans (both Pros and Antis) have spent on the gun control issue while almost nothing has been done or even proposed to address the core problems like Gun-Free zones, mental health, etc. That is the true tragedy IMHO and I hope it’s a long time before we have to face those facts in the wake of another massacre.
Opinion: More of the people sending in photos should be smiling. Not necessarily a huge toothy grin, Crystal’s smile is big enough.
Another classic example of the media trimming and spinning the news the way they want it to appear.
Welcome!!!
Best wishes to TX, I thought you had open carry. A friend moved down there a long long time ago & said Texans carried hog legs walking down the sidewalk. Randy
A little off topic here but, I’d still like to know why it took police and other first responders 20 minutes to arrive on scene after the first calls…
A couple of weeks after Sandy Hook I was talking with a friend about new gun control legislation. He said to me “The politicians aren’t going to come after bolt action surplus rifles or pump shotguns, that’s ridiculous”.
Gun owners in the mid-late 60’s said the same thing about having firearms mail ordered to their front doorstep.
Gun owners in the mid 80’s said the same thing about the machine gun registry.
Gun owners in the 90’s said the same thing about Clinton’s AWB.
Saying “It’ll never happen” and other such methods of sticking one’s head in the sand is how we as a community will get fvcked over. If all “assault rifles” were to disappear tomorrow, the next psychopath would just use a “hunting rifle” to kill people and bring about proposals for further bans.
This is why we all need to offer to take as many of our fence sitting friends and family members shooting as possible. Even if you only successfully introduce one person to the hobby and they love it, that’s one less person who will fall for the media’s emotionally based antics.
I think if something else happens you’re another step closer to civil war. It just pushes people more into their corners, and when they pass that sweeping law that brings civilian disarmorment, you can bet the freedom fighters will be out in force to protect their rights.
Wrong question.
We should be asking can Gun Free Zones survive another Newtown.
Logic is on our side and the best defense is a good offense.
What has become clear is that Americans prefer that murders occur one or two at a time, rather than 26 people at once, though much more rare in occurance. They prefer that the victims be black teenagers whose value can be discounted by assuming “they somehow deserved it,” thus shunting aside any need to reflect on the killing, so that one can move on to the sports scores. Unlike, though, the cheap concealable handguns that are instrumental in most murders, the Personal Defense Weapons used in Aurora and Newtown are also exactly the type of arms having any utility whatever in fulfilling the 2nd Amendment goals of an armed people with only a small “standing army” of government-paid enforcers. Look in the mirror, America, and admit that you will not react politically if an additional 500 inner city minorities are killed each year one at a time and in diverse locations you never visit, but that you will demand extreme and ineffective changes in national gun laws if, as a result of particular careless relatives, teachers, and therapists, a madman again shoots 20 children once during the year, but all in one five-minute interval and in one room. “Hard cases make bad law,” and terribly sad but statistically insignificant events are a poor context in which to alter the rights of 300 million citizens.
Good. VERY good.
Hi, Good to see you here, Randy
The primary beneficiary of this episode is George Zimmerman, as more and more evidence accumulates that NBCs defamatory editing of the his 911 call was not an accident but part of a deliberate policy. His lawyers must be licking their chops over this – and the WaPo article pointing out what the unedited truth was.
Reckless disregard for the truth pales in comparison to deliberate falsehood.
But this is what happens when MSM realizes that the Obama campaign is neverending, and goosesteps along.
my comment is missing
Thank you Crystal for standing up and making your voice heard!
No. We’re friends.
Make no mistake about it if gun rights do not survive the current or future political climate no other rights will survive either.
Most of them, if not all were on pyschotropics, which, is known to cause incidences of violence in users.
Exactly. Psychotropic drugs are known to cause outbursts of rage and make non-violent people become violent to themselves or others. My wife works at a state mental health facility and people are getting on these drugs and bringing their children in to get on these drugs so that they can get disability checks. It’s insane.
In 2005 118 million people were on these drugs.
http://articles.cnn.com/2007-07-09/health/antidepressants_1_antidepressants-high-blood-pressure-drugs-psychotropic-drugs?_s=PM:HEALTH
Plus we are pumping our kids full of these medicines as well. “American children are three times more likely to be prescribed psychotropic medications for conditions such as ADHD and bipolar disease than European children are, a new study finds.” http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2008/09/25/us-kids-take-more-psychotropic-drugs-than-europeans
If people are really concerned about violence in our country perhaps we should investigate the cause instead of demonizing the tools used to carry out these acts.
But… But…. The ACLU said we can’t do that!!!
Oh yeah right guns are the bad guys, duh I totally forgot that one!
Honestly though we don’t have the full text of the executive orders Obama wants to sign. The one about having medical records in NICS is worrisome. I get it, we don’t want crazy people to have guns, ok fine, I think we can all agree on that, but…..
How do you do that while maintaining doctor patient privilege? There also needs to be a well defined adjudication process that won’t take years, and millions of dollars to deal with.
I honestly don’t know if there is a way to do it, in which there will be no abuse of the power. At what point do you say the needs of the many far out way the needs or rights of the few, and simply not implement anything.
If someone has ever been court ordered for treatment by a judge it is on record, in MI that will keep you from getting a pistol during a background check but I do not know about a rifle, I work in mental health and I feel bad for how many people “for safety” have to have there guns removed from their home before the Dr will allow d/c, but I have heard people talk in detail about wanting to shoot their family, voices telling them to shoot themselves and I have even seen the after effect of 12 gauge double 00 buck when someone does what the voices say and shoots themself in the leg…
Actually not only was he not heckled or interrupted at any time, but if you watch the video again carefully, you will see that when Mr. Heslin ask if anyone could give him a reason they would need assult weapons no one answers.
It is not until he challenges the audience with the statement,” Not one person can answer that question.” (15:29) Only when confronted with answering or being forced to appear to be unable to answer does anyone speak. He then raises his hand in the direction of an unseen person and says “all right.” When that person responds with ” shall not infringe our rights”,the audience is asked to refrain from commenting until Mr Heslin is finished. Even though it was Mr. Heslin who asked for comments, no one in the audience protests.
Comments ceased as instructed.
Could not have been more orderly.
Wouldn’t the fallout from another school shooting depend on the school and who was doing the shooting?
Can’t hardly deny things would be different if “Sandy Hook” happened in Chicago’s south side or Watts, or even New Town Conn. If things were different they wouldn’t be the same.
Like things being different, I see that “there are other ways to kill people” thing quite a bit, as though being able to fill a cheap wine bottle with gasoline and stuff a rag in the neck, or mix diesel fuel and fertilizer, is some kind of excuse to do nothing, or an excuse to even look into, explore and study what may be feasible.
By the way, todays fertilizers suitable for bomb making are tagged, so I hear. I have also heard the purchaser gets “looked at” if they buy a whole bunch of it.
Far as the “banning”, I have to admit when I first heard of “bans” my immediate response was “I want one”, but then I stopped and thought: What would I do with it? Burn up ammo and overheat a barrel. I’m one shot one kill and it had best be dead before the bullets done moving in the creatures skull. Get better meat that way.
Will private ownership of weaponry survive another Sandy Hook? Probably. More than likely. It’s survived Giffords and Aurora AND Hook. Too much money in guns.
I think the greatest threat to ownership of guns are the Sarah Palins, Alex Jones and Ted Nugents. They present themselves as “fighting for rights” while also being the loony toons with guns.
The wording on that is horrible. The issue isn’t that they weren’t forced to take those drugs, it is that they did take those drugs. Some of the side effects were from taking the drugs, and others from withdrawing from those drugs. The accountability is on the doctors that pass them out like candy knowing full well what they do to people.
Thanks!
Just as we acknowledge the responsibility required to drive a car safely, we acknowledge the responsibility that comes with the territory of owning firearms. To my mind, it seems that the vast majority of gun owners accept and honor that responsibility to the highest degree. We take great pride in securing them correctly, cleaning and maintaining them, training to use them effectively, and knowing, legally-speaking, when it is acceptable to use them. All of this talk about banning certain types of firearms and magazine capacity limits is misdirected, because we all own them for DEFENDING ourselves, our families, and (admittedly less importantly) our property. No gun owner i’ve ever known has spoken even once about using their weapons in an offensive, or “attacking” role. The Constitution ensures that every American can have the ability to defend themselves. I have heard several times “well, do you HAVE to defend yourself with a gun?” and the answer is not always yes. Personally, as a former college athlete, I feel I can handle just about anyone who doesnt have a gun. BUT, if a five foot tall, 120 lb guy comes knocking with a gun and i dont have one, my 6’2″ 250 lb ass is in trouble. so, to account for any threat that i might (but hopefully never will) face, YES, a firearm really is my best option for personal defense. I know that I, and other gun owners, are willing to put in the work in order to be able to adequately defend ourselves.
No one ever said the anti constitution types made any sense. They are just reaaallly good at being stupid and whiny.
Another shooting in Phoenix today just as gun control hearings were being held. Supposedly an altercation at an office and the person went home and picked up his sporting rifle. IF, IF, this person was a law abiding citizen and bought this weapon legally, we’re in for a shitstorm. Not a mass killing but any shooting right now hurts us.
Like the poster, very interesting feedback.
At least she had the decency to cover her face.
Nick, that picture of Feinstein, you really know how to make a man go blind!
I wish for the end of this whole thing so I will NEVER see that “face” again, ever. Too bad she doesn’t have the same zeal for closing the boarders. Or for prosecuting Holder, maybe.
She’s exactly like a little child that asks one parent for something, doesn’t get what they want then immediately goes to ask the other parent.
Did anybody bring up the possibility of ending the War on Drugs?
Hey S.B. they understand it completely, what they are doing is ignoring it. This is out and out stupid.
I wonder what Christie the RINO thinks about these?
You shoot to kill. What other people revel in is not my problem.
I wish the sheriff had asked the mayor what’s the 911 response time for the city police. Per Piers a semi-automatic weapon “modern assault rifle” can fire 100 rounds a minute. So even if the mayor said 30 seconds, the bad guys can still get off 50 rounds before the police arrive.
Why doesn’t he go preach at a rap concert?
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“Some ideas are so stupid it takes an intellectual to believe them.”
-George Orwell
And some intellectuals are so divorced from reality that they achieve a transcendent stupidity.
Whatever. Does this fall under her publish or perish requirement?
My local LGS/range (Oklahoma City) has had ARs back in stock for a few weeks. Started with some pricey Christensen’s, but now includes Sigs, Colts, Bushmasters, M&Ps, etc. No more than about 5-10 at a time (they’d usually have 30+ on display), but the prices are right. They never jacked the prices up on the stock they had, or have now.
Ammo is starting to be obtainable again. They’ve done well at keeping stock without jacking prices, but resorted to rationing. I’m even able to buy 22LR and .223/5.56 now.
They got a decent shipment of powder this week and have been getting primers and bullets also.
From my vantage point, things are starting to make sense again. It’s not the easy pickings we’d like to see, but we’re on the right track, at least from the view around here.
So, which States will pass an AWB this year? Is Rhode Island among them?