Proof: Gun-Free Zone Policy Ensured Disarmed Victims in Virginia Beach

A law enforcement official stands at an entrance to a municipal building that was the scene of a shooting the day before in Virginia Beach, Va. Police responding to the deadly mass shooting were unable to confront the gunman at one point because they didn’t have the key cards needed to open doors on the second floor. Whether the delay contributed to the death toll is unclear, but the episode illustrated how door-lock technology that is supposed to protect people can hamper police and rescue workers in an emergency. (AP Photo/Patrick Semansky, File)

The shooter who murdered 12 people in a Virginia Beach municipal building on May 31 was enough of a concern to at least one fellow city employee that she considered bringing a firearm to work to protect herself the day of the shooting.

Kate Nixon was a city engineer who worked with the shooter. Her family’s attorney was interviewed on a local radio station yesterday.

As the Virginian-Pilot reports . . .

The public utilities engineer was concerned about DeWayne Craddock “as well as one other person,” said Kevin Martingayle, an attorney working with Nixon’s family. So on the night of May 30, Nixon had discussed with her husband, Jason, “whether or not she should take a pistol and hide it in her handbag,” Martingayle said. She decided against it because of a city policy that prevents employees from bringing weapons to work.

If Nixon had been caught at work with the firearm, she likely would have lost her job. She was one of those murdered during the shooting.

Julie Hill, a city spokeswoman, said she was not aware of Nixon’s concerns. Hill stressed that police are investigating all aspects of the shooting, including the information Martingayle has shared.

“We are going to make sure that we cover everything that is a part of that ongoing investigation,” she said.

The New York Times has reported that Craddock had recently begun acting strangely and got into physical “scuffles” with other city workers, including a “violent altercation on city grounds” in the week before the shooting. The Times also has reported he had been told that disciplinary action would be taken.

There seems to be some dispute about the shooter and his work history.

The Pilot has heard conflicting reports of such scuffles when interviewing city employees, and three said the information was inaccurate.

City Manager Dave Hansen has disputed the report, saying the gunman’s job performance was “satisfactory” and that he was not facing any ongoing disciplinary action or forced to resign.

In any case, as with so many employers both public and private, it was city policy that employees remain unarmed while at work.

There’s no way of knowing whether Nixon, had she taken her pistol to work that day, could have saved her own life or those of others. What’s clear is that, with everyone disarmed by policy, the shooter had no opposition at all, gunning down defenseless victims until police finally forced their way into the building.

 

comments

  1. avatar Ark says:

    I’m sure they all died relieved, thinking about how they could have hurt themselves if they had been allowed to possess a weapon.

    1. avatar Shire-man says:

      Or how one of them returning fire would have “made it so much worse.”

      1. avatar conrad says:

        being “safe” is everything, it’s for the children.

  2. avatar Texheim says:

    We had a City engineer loose marbles on the week anniversary of this and cops were all over the place.

  3. avatar Aven Osborne says:

    Another thing that backfired on the city was their decision to put key card locks on the exterior doors to keep unwanted people from entering the building. The police were next door in the same complex but they couldn’t get into the building to confront the shooter or to protect the unarmed employees. That is the main reason the shooter was active for over half an hour and was able to shoot so many people.

    1. avatar User1 says:

      Walls built to keep people out can also keep people in. Sometimes the enemy makes it behind the gates. In this case, the bad guy had access and the good guys didn’t. America should have already learned that lesson after the military base shootings.

      The gunman actually had numerous opportunities to kill many more people. He decided to show mercy on certain people and hunt down others. Seems personal, as if he had a list. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear the story of Nixon was true and accurate; that she knew of her impending doom and wanted to have an opportunity to escape it.

      You have to carry a big stick when walking in the forest of danger.

  4. avatar Timothy Toroian says:

    How many mass shootings have occurred in places where firearms are permitted! I read the other day from “Everytown” that 54% of mass shootings in the researched period were DOMESTIC VIOLENCE and that 86% of the children killed died in domestic or family violence-related incidents. Mass shooters may be nuts but they are not necessarily stupid. They CAN read the “No Guns” allowed signs.

    1. avatar conrad says:

      what are you talking about?

  5. avatar S R says:

    Thank God I live in Texas and am allowed to carry at work

    1. avatar RedOwl says:

      I live in Texas but I can’t carry at work. 🙁 I work for a European company with a strict “no weapons” policy. I even have a staff engineer with “issues” that make me concerned. At least we have loads of exits….

      1. avatar joel says:

        unless there are armed guards at the metal detectors you walk through to get to work everyday, i suggest you simply carry discreetly, while possibly looking for another job?

        Granted, i never had what people would call a “high paying job”, but i wouldn’t work where i wasn’t allowed to carry. I also wouldn’t work anywhere i didn’t enjoy my job, and the people i work with. Life is too short to spend so much time doing things i don’t like doing with people i don’t like being around…..

        1. avatar william knight says:

          I frequently work in Federal buildings and on military bases. Talk about gun-free zones! Not just against the rules, but a Federal Felony to carry. I feel real vulnerable when forced to disarm.

  6. avatar User1 says:

    There was a retired cop who just left as the shooting began, he was carrying his gun. Whereas the workers weren’t allowed to carry at that building because people believe that would stop workplace shootings.

    1. avatar Chier says:

      Did he leave because he heard shots fired ?

    2. avatar OBOB says:

      AND —context???

      did he run out right then…was ‘just’ gone by hours?

  7. avatar TommyG says:

    My opinion has always been that if you tell me that I can’t bring my gun then you should be required to provide armed security. Its a violation of my right to defend my own life.

    1. avatar Dude says:

      Yep. You’re now legally responsible for everyone’s safety, and you’re personally liable if you don’t protect everyone.

      1. avatar Dan Saito says:

        Legally carrying a concealed weapon does not make that person responsible for the safety of anyone else. The police aren’t even responsible for anyone else’s safety. If they were, they’d get sued for every person that is victimized by crime.

    2. avatar Fully Involved says:

      While I sincerely appreciate the bravery of police officers and armed security guards, waaay too much faith is placed on them. They are only human, not a guardian angel. Think of how many things have to go right for that officer/guard to save your life assuming the shooting starts his/her killing spree at your location:
      – They have to be relatively near you when the shooting starts, not on another floor, outside or in another building.
      – They have to be brave enough to face an active shooter
      – They have to be proficient enough to recognize and stop the actual threat
      If one of those requirements are not meant, you might be freshly f*cked.
      Bear in mind, when those elevator doors open and the shooter sees a uniformed officer/guard, the shooter already knows who his first target will be. The shooter is either carrying concealed or already has his weapon drawn and at the ready. Either way, the security officer/guard is at a huge tactical disadvantage.
      Like it or not, the best immediate defense is you (assuming you are carrying concealed and proficient in drawing and firing quickly and accurately).

  8. avatar SkorpionFan says:

    “He was armed with hus federally-licensed concealed carry weapon.” [1:04]
    What?

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      Probably a reference to LEOSA.

  9. avatar John says:

    10-16-91 Killeen, TX. Lubys Cafetreria

    “In Texas, at the time of the shooting, it was illegal for private citizens to ‘conceal carry’ firearms.

    After the shooting, there was a strong push to allow private citizens to carry concealed weapons. Suzanna Gratia, who was in the café during the shooting, had followed the law at the time and left her handgun in her car. She survived the shootings but her parents were killed. Afterwards, she claimed that she could have stopped the shooter if she had had her handgun in her bag. She became a staunch advocate for the introduction of concealed carry firearms, and the concealed weapons bill was signed by then Texas Governor George W. Bush in 1995. The Texas Legislature passed a shall-issue gun law, requiring that all applicants who qualify for one be issued a Concealed Handgun License (CHL), allowing them to carry concealed weapons. This removed the personal discretion of the issuing authority to deny licences.”

    The ability of a good guy to stop a bad guy with a gun has been prevented on many occasions due to ‘gun free’ zones and infringements on our 2nd amendment rights. How much longer will we let this “health crisis” go on?

  10. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Chances are the women in question would not have survived. She would not have known the attack was coming and even when people do they often hesitate that one split second before pulling the trigger while the assailant who is insane does not hesitate. The other problem is that assailants generally now are wearing bullet proof vests. Trying to make a head shot is very difficult even at close range and the skull is rounded that often results in a bullet ricocheting off the skull. When you couple the fact that most people do not have the time or money to practice with a pistol getting in a lethal shot in a gun fight is remote at best even when luck is with you which it usually is not. Murphy’s Law and yes it is real.

    UNIFORM FEDERAL GUN LAWS TO TRUMP STATE LAWS COUPLED WITH VETTING OF ALL GUN PURCHASES PERIOD.

    HERE IS THE POINT THE FAR RIGHT IGNORES: The Far Right claims we have not yet reached the gun saturation point rather than face the cold hard truth which is we let anyone in the U.S. who wants a gun have one including all the lunatics , terrorists and criminals. CHICAGO studies have proven the average gun used in crime is 11 years old and been through many hands before it is used in a crime. It takes usually less than a day to find an unregistered , un-vetted second hand gun or stolen gun in any city and in any state, state laws to the contrary because we do not have uniform Federal Laws which let guns that are second hand pour into states with tough laws. In other worlds the tens of thousands of state laws are all working against each other.

    FIREARMS I.D. CARD

    We have no Federal Laws that would mandate a mental test for a firearms purchase card. The Virginia shooter was clearly acting crazy long before he ever went on his rampage and fellow workers have stated such.

    REFUSAL BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FUND AFFORDABLE MENTAL HEALTH CARE

    The Republicans are prostitutes of the Drug an Insurance Companies who pour millions of dollars of blood money into their greedy pockets so they can continue to rape the public which results in any mental health care being un-affordable to the public even when they have some insurance coverage as insurance does not pay the total bill and the outrageous prices charged are so immoral and obscene the cost has become out of reach for the average person.

    REFUSAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FUND MONEY FOR ARMED GUARDS IN ALL SCHOOLS NOT JUST AFFLUENT WHITE SCHOOLS.

    Here the crafty disingenuous greed monger Republicans try to put the burden on the School District’s and the corrupt School boards that often fund million dollar salaries to the Administrators who simply either refuse to arm teachers or in rare cases shift the financial burden of buying and training with a gun to the teachers who are now paid obscene starvation wages and often have to fund class room supplies out of their own meager salaries. Its an outrage that other civilized countries cannot believe is happening in a country as rich but obviously as corrupt as the U.S. is. Its society coming apart at the seams through graft , blind greed and corruption and is shades of the collapse of the Roman Empire so long ago.

    RED FLAG LAWS

    A Red Flag Law would have allowed fellow employees to blow the whistle on this nut case long before he harmed anyone. AGAIN THIS IS ANOTHER POINT THE FAR RIGHT RANTS AGAINST WHICH IS AGAINST ALL COMMON SENSE AND LOGIC FOR PUBLIC SAFETY. A red flag law would have disarmed him, gave him a mental test and then locked him up where he could have done no harm.

    SAFE STORAGE LAWS

    This law would go a long way on cutting way down on stolen guns. Lets face facts despite the maniacal rantings of the paranoid and mentally challenged Far Right locking guns up slows down and even prevents many thieves who are usually uneducated , unskilled drug addicts from successfully and quickly snatching up guns and running out the door. If they face problems most leave to find a house that has guns laying round in plain site and not locked up. Safe storage laws would also practically eliminate the 1,300 accidental child deaths that happen every year in the U.S. a country that considers life cheap especially that of their children. The U.S. is the only industrialized country on earth that has done zero to stop school shootings. Since 2009 the U.S. has had over 288 school shootings while the rest of the civilized industrialized world has had two. This has not fazed the Far Right as they chose to ignore the horrific truth and that is we do not live in a civilized country. Here in Capitalvania money is god and human life is expendable and cheap.

    Its time we stop the piling up of dead and crippled for life people all sacrificed on the blood stained alter of the Second Amendment which was never meant to insure that anyone who wants a deadly weapon can have one. And no optimum gun saturation point would ever even begin to stop the everyday mass shootings and carnage. Even a 6th grade school child would understand that or any sane adult.

    None of the above changes would ban any guns from being sold to law abiding, sane citizens, not one so the Far Rights Rantings of gun confiscation are that of raving paranoid lunatics totally out of touch with reality. Name one gun the Brady Bill ever confiscated or banned in all the decades its vetted new gun purchases. It fails only in the fact that it cannot legally require all second hand guns purchases be vetted.

    The failure of the Country to do anything about mass shootings will result in draconian new gun ban laws because lets face facts its just cheaper and quicker to ban them all than implement the above changes that could have been made before the public panicked and reached the point where their patients has run out with the paranoid and uneducated Far Right Gun Crowd who lost touch with reality long, long ago.

    1. avatar strych9 says:

      That’s a mighty nice wall-o-text you got there.

      I would however recommend that you learn the proper meaning of words. For example, in paragraph seven, “site should be “sight” and in paragraph eight you wanted to use “ensure”, not “insure”.

      I’m not usually a big ‘ol grammar nazi (there I go misspelling “English teacher”) but generally I try to proofread things if I’m going to include a sentence like “Even a 6th grade school child would…” because, ya know, I want to make it sort of seem like my insult isn’t directed at myself.

      Oh, and btw, can you let us all know your secret for putting two atoms in the same space at the same time? It’s a neat trick so I’m sure I’m not the only one who would like to know how you pulled it off.

    2. avatar possum destroyer of arachnids says:

      Red Flag laws, just like Domestic Violence laws start out good then wind up being nothing more then a gunm grab. You make some valid points but what’s the answer? Disarming a nation will not stop the violence. So what’s the solution, mental evaluations for all gunm owners? I think not, because find me one, just one, person on this planet that doesn’t have a skeleton in their closet.

    3. avatar User1 says:

      You Mexico’s gun laws? What about Brazil’s? Do you know the homicide rate in those countries? Those countries were controlled by socialists for a long time, they passed all kinds of “common sense gun control” country wide.

    4. avatar Bubba says:

      You really don’t know what you’re talking about.

      You may think you appear clever by posting such a big slab of text, but actually you’re just providing bountiful evidence of the opposite.

      The ability to distill thoughts to their most concise and precise form demonstrates far more than you might imagine.

    5. avatar Anymouse says:

      1) Chances are the women in question would not have survived.
      There was a 100% chance that she died without a gun. What do you know about her training and mindset, or are you just projecting your own cowardice? Even if you’re right about “chances,” a 10% chance of survival is infinitely better than 0%.

      2) UNIFORM FEDERAL GUN LAWS TO TRUMP STATE LAWS COUPLED WITH VETTING OF ALL GUN PURCHASES PERIOD.

      Would have done nothing. The VA shooter passed all criteria to purchase his firearms, and apparently even the extra criteria for a federal NFA background check requiring FBI fingerprints and photos. What’s your basis for denying the shooter? The darker color of his skin? His liberal politics?

      3) FIREARMS I.D. CARD

      He passed all existing criteria, including waiting months for the privilege of paying a $200 tax for his federal government approved “SILENCER.”

      4) REFUSAL BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FUND AFFORDABLE MENTAL HEALTH CARE

      Behold the more in your own eye. The Democrats had control of the House, Senate, and President at the beginning of Obama’s term. They revamp healthcare but seem to have ignored this issue. How about the change in liberal policies to prevent institutionalization of the mentally I’ll? What would you diagnose his mental illness as? What is the diagnostic for “acting strangely?”

      5) REFUSAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FUND MONEY FOR ARMED GUARDS IN ALL SCHOOLS NOT JUST AFFLUENT WHITE SCHOOLS.

      What law funds armed guards for affluent white schools? How about the Democrat Party resistance to people (i.e. teachers) voluntarily seeking training and serving as unpaid armed guards? There isn’t an infinite pool of money, so what should schools cut to pay for it? Why aren’t Democrat school boards in CA, NY, NJ, and Chicago funding armed guards in schools? It certainly isn’t Republican influence. How would any of this have prevented the VA shooter? Seems like you’re dragging out a wishlist of fingetpointing and right violations instead trying to resolve the problem.

      6) RED FLAG LAWS

      A violation of civil rights. If there is proof the person is dangerous, put them in jail or in a mental institution. If someone is dangerous, are they now safe without a gun, or do they have enough imagination to find another way to harm people? Maybe we need to take their vehicles, tools, knives, and sharp or heavy objects away too. Since we’re arbitrarily denying people their rights, blacks commit and suffer a disproportionate amount of violence using guns. Perhaps we should red flag them, just to be safe.0

      7) SAFE STORAGE LAWS

      Ah, finally something that would have stopped the VA shooter. If he wasn’t able to buy his black market guns… Oh wait, he purchased his through federally licensed dealers after passing Federal background checks. Maybe he wouldn’t have shot up the place if he couldn’t remember the combination to his safe. Maybe the extra few seconds to retrieve the guns would have given him time to contemplate not murdering numerous coworkers. I guess it’s another boilerplate gun grabber wishlist that’s dragged out whenever an incident involving guns makes the news and wouldn’t have affected the tragedy you’re using to push for new restrictions.

      1. avatar joefoam says:

        Excellent point by point rebuttal to the commentor. Thanks for doing the heavy lifting.

        1. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

          Yep, agree with Joefoam, Strych9 and the rest. I would add: When the text is that long, I skim it while my eyes glaze over. Sometimes I just skip the book.

    6. avatar Des says:

      Laws, laws, laws and even more L-A-W-S ….. what is the flaw in this thought process. Well here it is. There is already a LAW against murder. Laws only effect those of us law abiding citizens who follow them. Those that don’t are just given more ability to negatively effect those that do. All we need is one law against murder and NO laws impinging on our God given right to defend ourselves against the lawless.

    7. avatar Garrison Hall says:

      @Vlad Tepes Sorry, but my 2nd Amendment rights to keep and bear arms is more important than your need to feel safe.

    8. avatar StLPro2A says:

      Mamma always said, “Better to have and not need, than to need and not have.”….PhD Magnum Cum Laude in Life.
      I’ll take “having a chance” any day to having no chance.
      For once I agree with Bill O’Reilly. Bad guys shooting people is the price of freedom. Liberty is risky business. That’s why our Founding Fathers recognized our God-given right to shoot back.
      A politician with a law never stops a bad guy with a gun. He only controls the good guys which is his true agenda.
      As tragic as any shooting is, and, yes, any killing, history shows that these shootings are insignificant (numerically, not to direct victims) as when the Leftard/Progressive/Elitist/Socialist utopia of no guns in the Little Peoples’ hands is achieved…..as depicted in “Schindler’s List”, “The Killing Fields”, “Hotel Rowanda” , “Anne Frank’s Diary”, and scores more, And, that is why our Founding Fathers wrote in the Second amendment “…..shall not be infringed.”….and did not include any pre-condition for sporting purposes, hunting, or paper punching. The Second Amendment is intended for killing tyrants who would strip freedom from individuals. And, that is why Libtards hate guns in the hands of citizens.
      ”Killing is a matter of will, not weapons.
      You cannot control the act itself
      by passing laws about the means employed.”
      The late Col Jeff Cooper, 1958.
      Life is dangerous. More people die in car/motorcycle/plane crashes, slip/trip/falls, illness,etc. than from mass shootings. Yet, there aren’t protests to take cars, motorcycles, planes, etc away from the Little People. But, maybe that is what Climate Change is all about??? Actually guns…not cars,motorcycles, planes are useful in stopping tyrants’ agendas. There we go….bingo.

    9. avatar OBOB says:

      Bloomberg? Is that you?

      sorry you lost in Florida, but you gotta cut down on the booze or you might make sense or actually use a verifiable ‘FACT’ once and a while when you go off all nuts and post a MESS like this.

      288 school shootings? I CALL BULL SHIT on that one alone!

    10. avatar frank space says:

      you’re always better off with a gun than without it….funny how people keep trying to denigrate that with weak rationalizations….

    11. avatar Ragnar says:

      “Its time we stop the piling up of dead and crippled for life people all sacrificed on the blood stained alter of the Second Amendment which was never meant to insure that anyone who wants a deadly weapon can have one.” – Vlad Tepes

      For once, you write the truth. It wasn’t meant to insure(sic) anyone who wants a deadly weapon can have one. The Second Amendment is meant to ensure that our government can never infringe on our natural right to keep and bear arms.

    12. avatar Aaron Walker says:

      I’m NOT Republican ,or DemoCRAP. I don’t own any Firearms. I do think YOUR a commie TROLL with an Authoritarian complex…Go SJW on CNN, or MSNBCs comment board…Save text space for people who know what the U.S. Constitutional-Bill of Rights are and how there NOT behold to any Tom/Dick/Harry/or Mary Sue who has a self-empowered drive against the freedoms , and Liberties of others ..Or Just P!$$ ¤€€ !

    13. avatar Docduracoat says:

      Too long
      Did not read

      1. avatar Someone says:

        You didn’t miss much. It’s mostly lies, as usual.

    14. avatar Justsomeguy says:

      Your post begins with baseless suppositions and goes downhill from there. Go tell it to someone who is likey to believe our claptrap.

  11. avatar Sian says:

    “The New York Times has reported that Craddock had recently begun acting strangely and got into physical “scuffles” with other city workers, including a “violent altercation on city grounds” in the week before the shooting. The Times also has reported he had been told that disciplinary action would be taken.”

    Note that he wasn’t fired or denied building access.

    If he hadn’t been killed by police, he’d still be a city employee.

  12. avatar Joe says:

    Cool. I can only speak for myself but when I’m out on the range I’m like BOOM, Headshot! BOOM, Headshot! BOOM, Headshot! *even on round thick headed skulls

    1. avatar Joe says:

      Dammit. Supposed to reply to Vlad.

  13. avatar Mad says:

    Practice with it carry it and use it tell the supervisor if a shooter breaches the door I hope you die last so you can watch Your employee’s die first then with you holding the sign Gunn free zone you take one in the face. Moronic and stupid

    1. avatar User1 says:

      A “Gun Free Zone” tattoos for everyone. That ought to stop guns from being around you, should work as well as ink on a paper.

      1. avatar Aaron Walker says:

        I like it! Let’s open some “Ink shops” in large DemoCommie controlled cities and states! Specialty, “Gun-Free zone Tatoos!” Should be $$$$$ big business. Have the DemoCRAPPic party be our business ads. Free for prominent anti- gun /anti 2nd amendment liberal politicians to show off the goods…

  14. avatar Anymouse says:

    1) Chances are the women in question would not have survived.
    There was a 100% chance that she died without a gun. What do you know about her training and mindset, or are you just projecting your own cowardice? Even if you’re right about “chances,” a 10% chance of survival is infinitely better than 0%.

    UNIFORM FEDERAL GUN LAWS TO TRUMP STATE LAWS COUPLED WITH VETTING OF ALL GUN PURCHASES PERIOD.

    Would have done nothing. The VA shooter passed all criteria to purchase his firearms, and apparently even the extra criteria for a federal NFA background check requiring FBI fingerprints and photos. What’s your basis for denying the shooter? The darker color of his skin? His liberal politics?

    FIREARMS I.D. CARD

    He passed all existing criteria, including waiting months for the privilege of paying a $200 tax for his federal government approved “SILENCER.”

    REFUSAL BY THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FUND AFFORDABLE MENTAL HEALTH CARE

    Behold the more in your own eye. The Democrats had control of the House, Senate, and President at the beginning of Obama’s term. They revamp healthcare but seem to have ignored this issue. How about the change in liberal policies to prevent institutionalization of the mentally I’ll? What would you diagnose his mental illness as? What is the diagnostic for “acting strangely?”

    REFUSAL OF THE REPUBLICAN PARTY TO FUND MONEY FOR ARMED GUARDS IN ALL SCHOOLS NOT JUST AFFLUENT WHITE SCHOOLS.

    What law funds armed guards for affluent white schools? How about the Democrat Party resistance to people (i.e. teachers) voluntarily seeking training and serving as unpaid armed guards? There isn’t an infinite pool of money, so what should schools cut to pay for it? Why aren’t Democrat school boards in CA, NY, NJ, and Chicago funding armed guards in schools? It certainly isn’t Republican influence. How would any of this have prevented the VA shooter? Seems like you’re dragging out a wishlist of fingetpointing and right violations instead trying to resolve the problem.

    RED FLAG LAWS

    A violation of civil rights. If there is proof the person is dangerous, put them in jail or in a mental institution. If someone is dangerous, are they now safe without a gun, or do they have enough imagination to find another way to harm people? Maybe we need to take their vehicles, tools, knives, and sharp or heavy objects away too. Since we’re arbitrarily denying people their rights, blacks commit and suffer a disproportionate amount of violence using guns. Perhaps we should red flag them, just to be safe.0

    SAFE STORAGE LAWS

    Ah, finally something that would have stopped the VA shooter. If he wasn’t able to buy his black market guns… Oh wait, he purchased his through federally licensed dealers after passing Federal background checks. Maybe he wouldn’t have shot up the place if he couldn’t remember the combination to his safe. Maybe the extra few seconds to retrieve the guns would have given him time to contemplate not murdering numerous coworkers. I guess it’s another boilerplate gun grabber wishlist that’s dragged out whenever an incident involving guns makes the news and wouldn’t have affected the tragedy you’re using to push for new restrictions.

    1. avatar Anymouse says:

      Sorry, that was supposed to be a response to Vlad. Moving it up there.

  15. avatar AGuyWithAGun says:

    I’m not sure if my employer has a firearm policy and I honestly don’t care. If I can legally carry I am legally carrying.

    If I violate any workplace rules and get fired I can get another job. If I’m dead, well…

    1. avatar frank space says:

      calls to mind all the talk about teachers carrying guns…when the reality was plenty did…rules or no rules…

  16. avatar Nanashi says:

    Can we use OSHA to arrest those who make unsafe workplaces by making them gun free zones?

  17. avatar former water walker says:

    Coulda’,shoulda’,woulda’ DIDNT…I was just in an unnamed Indiana gun shop. Someone from Chiraq called about transporting his gat to the shop. And got some seriously stupid advice. Carry anyway-it beats dying😏

  18. avatar Thixotropic says:

    I’d rather by tried by 12 than carried by 6.

  19. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    To Anymouse

    “3) FIREARMS I.D. CARD

    “He passed all existing criteria, including waiting months for the privilege of paying a $200 tax for his federal government approved “SILENCER.”

    Reading comprehension genius, reading comprehension. I said that the firearms I.D. Card would be issued after a mental back ground check and or mental test which would have set off alarm bells with this guy that would have blasted the bells off of a Church. Sorry try again on this one.

    ” The Democrats had control of the House, Senate, and President at the beginning of Obama’s term. ”

    Lets get real here and stop using propaganda. Their window of time was very small and when Obama took over the mess the Republicans made of the economy with the Great Recession upon us and the entire world was catastrophic. Do you think he could have created miracles in so short a window of time. Come on get real and quite lying between your teeth.


    What law funds armed guards for affluent white schools? How about the Democrat Party resistance to people (i.e. teachers) voluntarily seeking training and serving as unpaid armed guards? There isn’t an infinite pool of money, so what should schools cut to pay for it?” Why aren’t Democrat school boards in CA, NY, NJ, and Chicago funding armed guards in schools

    Where the hell do you live in a cave. There was a special done not long after the Florida Shootings on MSNBC that showed an Affluent White School that had hundreds of security cameras, automatic door locks, armed guards, automatic alarms to the local police dept. and even smoke machines to flood the hall ways. AND NONE OF IT WAS FUNDED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS BLOCKED SUCH BILLS TIME AND TIME AGAIN. ONLY A RICH WHITE AFFLUENT SCHOOL DISTRICT HAD THE FUNDS TO FUND THIS PROJECT.

    And you mention Chicago it has a huge population of poor unemployed people and when the Republicans refuse to use Federal Money the City of Chicago sure as hell does not have such large funds for such expensive projects for hundreds of schools. Come on who are you trying to bullshit anyway.

    “RED FLAG LAWS

    A violation of civil rights. If there is proof the person is dangerous, put them in jail or in a mental institution.”

    Ok Genius you answered your own question. Do you know how hard it is to disarm someone or force a mental test on some one without a Red Flag Law. Current lawyers manipulating current civil rights laws can use excuses and drag hearings on for months.

    And you mention violations of civil rights. Well you really fell head first into the shit house on this one. Tell all the grieving families of the innocent murdered people about who lost their civil rights “permanently” not just for awhile like an accused person would as he is still alive not dead. Yes sometimes Red Flag laws can be misused or inadvertently prosecute innocent people but your alternative is to let mass murder go on and on unchecked. Brilliant idea if you want to see yourself lose all your gun rights permanently when an outraged public ends up banning all firearms.

    “SAFE STORAGE LAWS

    Ah, finally something that would have stopped the VA shooter.”

    Look lets cut out the crap and your bullshit. My post was a series of laws designed to address all gun violence not just one particular Incident. Your ridiculous idea is that safe storage laws are worthless make about as much sense as abolishing laws against theft or murder because they do not stop all people from committing crime.

    Now genius lets see you lie your way out of this one. Are you telling me safe storage laws would not save children lives or prevent a lot of gun thefts. Now be honest and tell the truth, if you believed that you would not have gun safe in your home and I am betting 99 per cent you do indeed have a safe so again you caught yourself up in your own deceit. As Shakespeare once said “OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB WE WEAVE WHEN WE PRACTICE TO DECEIVE”. SORRY TRY AGAIN YOU SCREWED UP BIG TIME ON THAT ONE.

      1. avatar Hush says:

        Only one problem Vlad with all your B S is getting the bad guys to even bother to pay attention to much less follow ANY of the laws you propose. Get it through your queer head that bad people do bad things in places where they can do the most damage, i.e. gun free zones etc and bad people do NOT obey laws. Why do you think they are called BAD GUYS!

    1. avatar OBOB says:

      hey Vlad

      “3) FIREARMS I.D. CARD

      “He passed all existing criteria, including waiting months for the privilege of paying a $200 tax for his federal government approved “SILENCER.”

      Reading comprehension genius, reading comprehension. I said that the firearms I.D. Card would be issued after a mental back ground check and or mental test which would have set off alarm bells with this guy that would have blasted the bells off of a Church. Sorry try again on this one.

      its still BS and Anymouse is RIGHT
      any person COULD and will in your law’s case pass that ‘test’ one year…but 10 years later go nuts?
      never thought about that one…did ya?
      or are you going to ‘test’ yearly? monthly? Weekly? Daily? by the hour?….what?
      and cost….is the test 1$ or 10,000 because you know doc’s cost money!
      then add who is the doc…some LIB asshole like you that preemptively BANS everyone or a true patriot that believes in the 2nd amd?

      so what now commierade…..?????????????

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        ‘its still BS and Anymouse is RIGHT
        any person COULD and will in your law’s case pass that ‘test’ one year…but 10 years later go nuts?
        never thought about that one…did ya?
        or are you going to ‘test’ yearly? monthly? Weekly? Daily? by the hour?….what?’

        Many civilized nations do indeed require you to renew your mental health test at intervals which vary from country to country and as far as a persons mental state suddenly deteriorating before the next test that is why I recommend red flag laws as co-workers and or relatives can quickly blow the whistle and have the young men in the long white coats pounce on such nut cases in a matter of minutes hauling them off in a straight jacket to the nearest loony bin.

        You seem to be advocating doing nothing which makes about as much sense as buying fire insurance after your house burns down. But is that not the Conservative mentality of lets do nothing and lets spend nothing and hope the problem goes away. 288 school shootings between 2009 to present as compared to only 2 in Europe still does not seem to turn on the light in the dim witted brain of the average Conservative.

        1. avatar OBOB says:

          288

          ya right you know that is a BS made up number……and you post all that and STILL not one question put to ya answered…lib tactic #1 dodge the questions of logic when put to them!

    2. avatar DrDKWdd says:

      The victims “lost their civil rights” illegally. Vlad would like to take everyone else’s away legally!

  20. avatar Victoria Illinois says:

    Anyone who’s read history, or better yet, talked to someone who lived through the Soviet Era knows how those mental tests went. “You don’t like to work in coal mine? You must be mental. Away with you.” Today: “You think XY means male and XX means female? You are wrong, wrong. Away with you.”

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      “Anyone who’s read history, or better yet, talked to someone who lived through the Soviet Era knows how those mental tests went. “You don’t like to work in coal mine? You must be mental. Away with you.” Today: “You think XY means male and XX means female? You are wrong, wrong. Away with you.”

      Standard Conservative laughable Bogey man rant. Yet they ignore that fact that most all the civilized European Countries as well as Japan have required Mental health examinations for decades and many Europeans own plenty of weapons which of course makes your “Commie under the bed stories” just laughable. And by the way Skeet shooting in Japan is very popular and they often do very well in the Olympics. Sorry try again.
      a

      1. avatar DrDKW says:

        So why don’t you just come out and admit that, in order to be safe, you want to dismantle our constitutional republic and replace it with a socialist nanny-state!

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          “So why don’t you just come out and admit that, in order to be safe, you want to dismantle our constitutional republic and replace it with a socialist nanny-state!”

          That is exactly what we Socialists are going to do not hope to do. How ever did you guess Comrade.

      2. avatar Ragnar says:

        Europe has open borders. Perhaps Vlad should take advantage of them?

        Japan on the other hand, I don’t think Vlad would be as well received.

        These United States of America will do just fine without your manipulations and sophistry.

  21. avatar Hannibal says:

    She must not have been THAT concerned. It’s also possible that her husband is making it out to be more than it was in the wake of her death.

  22. “So on the night of May 30, Nixon had discussed with her husband, Jason, “whether or not she should take a pistol and hide it in her handbag,” Martingayle said. She decided against it because of a city policy that prevents employees from bringing weapons to work.”
    Bullshit. If she was afraid then she would have carried. It’s like a warning shot. If you are convinced your life is in danger then you don’t miss on purpose. If you are convinced there is a threat at work, you don’t go to work or you take measures to protect yourself. Were there metal detectors at her workplace? Not likely or she would not have considered carrying.
    I was fired for just having a magazine in my pocket. Not the end of the world. Being shot dead? Yeah that’s the end.

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