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TTAG reader DH writes:

I’m a dog lover. So are most of my family and friends, and the majority of that group has at least one dog that was a rescue. I mention that because many of the dogs that end up abandoned or in the shelter system have been labeled as “dangerous breeds”. I’m sure there is some well thought out, unbiased study (sarcasm here) to say that Pits or Dobermans, or any other “dangerous” breed has been involved in more attacks than say Chihuahuas, but in the end, all breeds do what their owner has trained them (or not trained) to do . . .

These “dangerous breeds” were selected to be working dogs because they possess qualities such as strength, endurance, loyalty. If they were naturally vicious, they would have been killed off years ago, instead of being trained to exploit the strengths they have for the desired role. This classification is has resulted in certain breeds being banned from municipalities such as Denver. DOD has banned certain animals from base housing. Not based on actual behavior, or how their owner has raised them, but on what they might do because of their breed alone.

So what do Pit Bulls have to do with guns? This story should sound too familiar. It’s about mind set. It’s too hard to hold violators accountable, so let’s ban stuff. It’s about to an AR being a much more deadly firearm than a M1A or a Mini-14, because it’s a scary looking…in other words…it’s breed. Anything can be made dangerous when misused or abused by its owner…car, knife, hammer, dog…firearm.

While there is no right to keep and bear dogs, this is the same mindset of pre-emptive action…all for the actions of a few, that is applied to law abiding gun owners. Media demonization focused at low information voters leading to arbitrary action by lower information politicians.

The irony is that the people who are standing up for the rights of the dogs, would most likely be on the side of those trying to limit the rights of gun owners.

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294 COMMENTS

  1. Nice comparison.
    I guess this is a good way to show how gun control is racist (joking, but you get the idea).

    • Nice comparison.

      No, it’s a ridiculous comparison. Guns don’t randomly attack people on their own. Dogs – especially the dangerous breeds – do. Yes, we can all say that it’s the way they were raised or whatever. And yet the stories (plural) we read about the family Pit Bull killing the family child always relay how well behaved the dog has always been – until it tore apart their kid.

      Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, etc were creations of mankind, just like all other breeds to dogs. I think it’s high time we start thinning the herd. We don’t need to kill them (the cops can do that for us, amiright?), but we can just neuter them and let them go extinct. Alternatively, how about a $200 annual tax for the privilege (not right, btw) to own one of these dangerous dogs. And yes – the dogs are dangerous. Sure, precious little Fido may be all cute and friendly to its owner, but if little Fido comes near me or my kid, someone will have to go shopping for a replacement Fido.

      • Just like how Momma’s baby would never shoot nobody? Even though everyone on the block knows what he is into? People don’t blame themselves when crap goes wrong no matter how many mistakes they have or haven’t made, so take the rainbow fart stories with a grain of salt.

      • It’s all about genetics. You can’t make a fish walk. All dogs are wolf hybrids. With some, the size is smaller, with others, it’s another set of traits that has been selected.
        Any serious gun lover would want to prevent the destruction of classic guns, but would support banning manufacture of firearms that were so cheaply made as to be dangerous in normal use. Seriously, who would want a 22 that might blow up in your hand? Who would buy ammo that would ruin their gun?

        • Speak for yourself, mister. It is arrogant to assume that you know what everyone else thinks or wants. Besides that, there is no rational reason to attempt to “ban” anything, and nobody actually has legitimate authority to do so.

          If anyone uses an object to commit aggression, he/she is likely to suffer as a consequence of the victim’s rational action to defend themselves. Attempts to “ban ” things has not, so far, had much success stopping the aggression, but has definitely interfered with the self defense part.

          If someone buys an object that is so poorly made and engineered that it harms him/her… that’s too bad, but it is their problem. Nobody has either the “right” or the authority to protect someone from themselves, except those responsible for minor children and other such dependents. And, once again, all efforts to “ban” things can never guarantee freedom from accidents, and can’t seem to get much traction on the stupidity of individuals who make poor choices.

      • You sound like the cop type. Just itching to use your gun on a live target, so you figure a dog would be a good low-cost (legally speaking) option. Most dogs’ interaction with their owner is positive and playful, and it probably doesn’t think any different of other humans. It’s easier to read a dog than a human. If it’s aggressive it’s not going to try to hide it. You’ll know. If it’s not aggressive, you should be able to tell as well. Saying if a dog comes near you or your kid you’re going to kill it, is just ignorant. Use your brain before you engage.

      • You mean about how the kid couldn’t tell the dog didn’t like what Jr was doing and Jr wouldn’t get the picture, so the dog took a stronger stance of telling the kid to stop? Kids need to be taught about dogs, just like they do about guns. Not knowing how to read one, handle one, or when not to is dangerous on both accounts. There are many who THINK they can read their dogs, but in reality they can’t.

        There has been instances where a family has heard their kid complain their dog attacked them, but fortunately it was caught on surveillance AND it turned out the kid provoked the attack, then blamed the dog.

        • I have a pack of 16 dogs. I will state, barring some external influence like rabies, a dog is too fucking lazy to attack something just because it feels like it . They are always provoked. At least mine, are. Either a dominance contest (in which case I win), or because someone violates the pecking order and tries to cut in line at the feeding trough. Provoked, or frightened – I’ve adopted some dogs only my mother could get near – they were so frightened of men and abused, you just couldn’t get near ’em.

          But I see the authors point – any of these big dogs, if provoked, they can kill ya just as dead as a bullet.

      • Like Mickey the pit bull that tore up the kid here in Arizona. They claimed it was a great family dog… But it was on a chain in the back yard. If it was such a great family dog, why was it chained in the back yard for months in the Arizona heat? Because it wasn’t. Now that Mickey has been taken care of by America’s Toughest Sheriff Joe Arpaio he’s much more friendly than he was in their “care.” Those people need to never be allowed to have a dog again. They don’t treat them with respect, and you get what happened when you abuse a dog long enough.

        • I disagree that all dogs attack when provoked. Dogs are like people. Most have personalities that cause them to go about their daily business and avoid problems. However, some are just plain mean and will attack for no reason what so ever. Pitbulls, Rottweilers and other so called ‘bully breeds’ get a bad reputation not because of the number of attacks, but because of how much damage they are capable of when they choose to attack. I agree that much of how a dog acts has to do with the owners and how they’ve been trained and treated. Too often people get a dog they know nothing about, and don’t treat it as it needs to be treated. Terriers, such as a pit bull, are high energy dogs that need to burn off that energy, or else they become agitated. But that’s not always the source of their attacks.

      • My children hadf 2 pitbulls that were trained by my daughter. They were the sweetest most loving dogs I have ever seen in my 63 years. Yes they were protective of me and my children, never once did they bite or attack anyone. Most children attacked by pit bulls are neighbor children, not the children of the owner. These children should never have been left in the yard with these dogs as they were strangers to the dogs and were probably not trained in how to treat dogs. My daughter would walk them down and around the orange circle in so cal and never had a problem.

        • Tell that to Kara Hartrich or Braelyn Coulter. Maybe Summer Sears would agree, but she was in her own yard. Ten children have been killed in dog attacks this year. Seven by pits. Five Belonged to family. One was a family friend, another was a grandfather. That one a rotti.

      • Maybe if there weren’t so many vapid, stupid, obnoxious children everywhere then dogs wouldn’t have to occasionally attack them and I wouldn’t be constantly tempted to.

        Hell, there are more than 7 billion people on the planet. We need more pits to eat kids to help us bring that number down.

        Sorry to be so snippy, but it really bugs me to hear parents complain about dogs. When I can make you as a dog-hater pay for my dog to go to school, then you can complain, but as it stands despite no plans to ever have children I still get to pay taxes to fund elementary schools.

      • I love when someone opens their mouth and all this stupidity just rolls right out, and what gets me is even though you have no Idea of what your talking about you actually believe your own crap. Some these breeds that are being targeted have been around from the begging of time,and they are gentle as a lamb it’s the people that make the change in the temperament of the dog.So do your research before you go trying to kill off these breeds.

    • Horrible comparison.

      Unlike a firearm, pit bulls (like chimpanzees, killer whales, tigers, etc.) have an instinct and will of their own.

      Unlike a firearm, pit bulls can “pull their own trigger” and seize upon innocent people. For pit bulls, they especially go for young children, women and a surprising number of their owners or house guests.

      A full 62 percent of human dog-bite fatalities are committed by pit bulls.
      DogsBite.org (Some dogs don’t let go).
      http://www.dogsbite.org/

      Why would a chimpanzee attack a human?
      http://tinyurl.com/ncj2nel

      Killer whale kills trainer at Orlando’s Sea World; whale Tilikum linked to two other human deaths
      http://tinyurl.com/kpteu4o

      Report Released on Roy Horn’s Tiger Attack
      http://tinyurl.com/lc3s8aw

      Guns don’t “go off” by themselves, animals do.

      • Funny. For years pitts were also known as nanny dogs…. protecting kids, not chewing them up. They didn’t hit the evil breed list until dog fighting rings were found abusing and training them to be very aggressive towards other dogs and people.

        • Nanny dogs? Really? LOL!

          “They didn’t hit the evil breed list until dog fighting rings were found abusing and training them to be very aggressive towards other dogs and people.”

          You’ve got be kidding. Pit bulls were bred for that very purpose.

          There have been dog-fighting rings for over 100 years, and the breed was part of a sub culture of “dog men.” Unfortunately, the pit bulls moved out of the sub culture and into the main stream in the mid 1970s.

          “Thirty Years with Fighting Dogs” by George C. Armitage
          http://tinyurl.com/n9sp4pw (Google Books)

          “Originally published 1935, USA, this is a reprint of a fascinating historical document about fighting dogs. The original is very rare, expensive and much sought after by dogmen and collectors, both for its rarity and the information contained within. “Thirty Years With Fighting Dogs” is a look at the sport of dog fighting in the early 20th century through the eyes of George Armitage, an acknowledged master of the game. It contains 55 rare photographs including Galvin’s Pup, John Noonan’s Brandy, Tanner, Shipley’s Pearlie, Saddler’s Bozo, Dugan’s Pat and many more. Many famous battles are related. The contents also include articles on Schooling a Young Dog, Selecting a Dog for Pit Purposes, Armitage’s Rules, Sample Contract, Armitage’s Keep, Feeding and Breeding. A fascinating look at a vanished era.”

      • Just a heads up. Using “Dogsbite.org” as a source is the equivalent to using Mom’s Demand Action as a source.

        Even the CDC decided that the breed of dogs makes no difference. And therefore stopped tracking that statistic.

        Media reports on types of dogs that attack are about as reliable as media reports on the type of firearm used. Many dogs reported as “pit bull” were in fact other types of dogs. Labradors and other “friendly” dogs are reported as a pit bull at first, and the retraction can be found ten days later in page A8 about halfway down. Then you have the fact that a pit bull attack is labeled as “Pit Bull bites kid!” where a Chow or Sharpei will be reported as “Dog bites man.”

        Then you have the wonderful “Family Pet” that has been on a chain in the back yard baking in the Arizona sun for months. They are actually called “resident” dogs rather than pets. They get no socializing of any kind. An actual loved family pet that attacks someone is far less common than you think. And considering that the sheer number of bad people with pit bulls takes up so much of the population now… Well… gee… Which dog is a thug going to pick for his pride enhancer. Is it going to be the floofy dog, or the one the media tells everyone to be afraid of. Gosh… Tough decision.

        You are aware that these dogs are naturally people friendly. Many of these attacks happen because someone broke them of their natural behavior, and MADE THEM DANGEROUS! Once they break their natural behavior, that dog will be a risk.

        At any rate, I best stop before I get angry.

        • Pit Bulls are the ‘Assault Weapon’ of dog breeds. Whenever there’s a dog attack, it’s assumed by the media to be a Pit until decisively shown otherwise.

          That said, when Pits and other fighting breeds do attack, It’s potentially a life-altering event, so even if they’re less vicious than an insane little purse-dog, an attack from one is a lot harder to deal with.

          As with anything else dangerous, it’s up to the owner to be responsible. If you have a dangerous dog, even if they’re the sweetest thing and ‘would never hurt a fly’, you gotta supervise them around children and others with poor impulse control. Just like with guns.

      • Is a full 62 percent better than a half 62 percent?

        I think a quarter of 100 percent of statistics are cherry picked to provide evidence of the position you have already taken. Aren’t we here at TTAG trying to refute such actions by the population control crowd? Are you in the right place?

      • “a full 62 percent”

        You’re a real thinker aren’t you?
        Side note: say “sixty two percent” or “62%”
        To the matter at hand, yes a “full” (as opposed to a partial?) 62% of bites may well be from pitt bulls… though this is like saying car wrecks are more common among demolition derby cars.

        Many people who are interested in the pitt bull breed seek out an aggressive dog, do not socialize it properly, and sometimes even actively encourage aggression. It’s not an inherent trait of the dog that makes it reach the 62%, it’s the purpose that the owners had in mind.

        Dogs must be trained and socialized. Dogs must be kept under control. The type of people to seek out pitt bulls are not the type of people who usually do any of these things.

        It’s really quite simple.

      • It’s amazing to me that we can be so good at picking out emotion-driven statements and doctored statistics when it comes to anti-gunners, but then resort to their very tactics on other subjects.

        Unlike a firearm, pit bulls (like chimpanzees, killer whales, tigers, etc.) have an instinct and will of their own.
        So you make the leap that because a dog has a will of it’s own, it is naturally going to turn aggressive and attack someone? The anti-gunners’ version of that statement happens to be very similar “Guns may not kill people, but gun-owners kill people, and anyone with a gun is a mass murderer waiting to happen.

        Unlike a firearm, pit bulls can “pull their own trigger” and seize upon innocent people. For pit bulls, they especially go for young children, women and a surprising number of their owners or house guests.
        Guns don’t “go off” by themselves, animals do.
        Wow. What fear and emotion. Worthy of an anti-gunner.

        A full 62 percent of human dog-bite fatalities are committed by pit bulls.
        Now you sound like Piers Morgan trotting out “The last 4 mass shootings involved an AR-15”. If Pit Bulls are banned the thugs will choose some other breed and we’ll be hearing of that one making up the majority of dog-bite fatalities.

        • There’s no comparison between a firearm (an inanimate tool) and a living, non-reasoning animal.

          All animals are unpredictable to a degree, some more so than others. Ask any horse fancier if there’s a difference in temperament between a quarter horse and a thoroughbred.

          Some breeds of dog are more lethal than others. Just like some fish are more lethal than others.

          Would you rather let your child (or dog) swim in a pool with a bull shark or a nurse shark?

          Pit bulls are the bull shark of the dog world.

      • Dogsbite.org is the biggest sham of a website this side of Mom’s Demand Action. Unwise reference.

        • If that’s the case, PROVE them wrong. I researched most of the 2013 reports. Not many kills by pomeranians or teacup poodles.

  2. Our Peke-tzu can’t play with the Pit Bull next door anymore, the pit is too clumsy and smacks the little dog too much with her paws when she jumps around all excited. They play around just fine on opposite sides of the fence though. Fortunately, the kids’ Catahoula is much more careful around smaller animals, the big dog lets the little one crawl all over it. They remind me of DeVito/Schwarzenegger in “Twins”.

  3. I’m so glad this article didn’t go in a different direction…

    “Blame the deed, NOT the breed”…

  4. This is absolute truth, I’ve been thinking about this similarity a lot lately as I’ve seen a bunch of Pitbull memes that read exactly the same as a firearm one would.

  5. I have been training my neighbors Pit (American Staffordshire) since he was a pup and hes 1.5 now (trained dogs most all of my life), hes Scooby Doo in 110 lb pit form, as lovable as can be, but he has had humans to teach him how to be a relatively well behaved (he still has some of that pup energy).

    Its ALL about the owner 🙂

    • I hear that after every attack. As a service professional for several rental companies, I have had too many run in with pits. We are notified if there is supposed to be any animals on site, and since we are working based on tenant calls, they know we are coming. I have been attacked six times in the last ten years. All pits. I have also cleaned up one apartment where the guy got chewed to pieces. Supposedly he died before the dog chewed him to bits. With computers we say gigo, garbage in garbage out. DNA is the computer code of life. How many people are killed by papilions? How many are killed and or mauled by pits and rotties? It’s in their DNA.

      • Maybe it’s the owners that are attracted to the breed for it’s reputation as a vicious killer; and then they don’t train them properly. You know; what came first; the vicious killer; or the bad owner that created a vicious killer.

        • That, and the fact that the badass breeds like rot, pit and dobie are swarming with backyard breeders and puppy mills who have no idea what the hell they’re doing, no scruples whatsoever and who churn out one feeble, inbred, recessive-gene infested litter after another with all manner of defects of body and mind.

          Inveterate, responsible, sophisticated breeders are not going to sell to gangbangers and badass wannabes, after all, and certainly not at low overhead, out-of-the-trunk-of-the-car prices on Craig’s List.

      • Hmm,

        Pit bull is a breed known, advertised, marketed, and sought out as a guard dog.

        Imagine my immense surprise when a guard dog encounters an intruder (you), and acts just like a guard dog.

        Another case of operator error, where the owners did not deactive their security system (a dog in this case) before making a service call.

        Seriously, they are functioning exactly like they are supposed to. Don’t blame the dog for doing exactly what it was trained/aquired to do. Blame the owners that called you for service, and didn’t “de-activate” their K-9 security system.

        • Doing what they are supposed to do, exactly. So outside the home, do you know exactly when the dog’s “protect” alarm is going to go off? Your statement proves the point.
          NO YOU DON’T, that the problem isn’t it.
          Yes operator error, but that shows there is a risk in a non-controlled environment
          Now that TV’s are so much lighter, my dog could/would help the burglar carry the damn thing out the door. He would bark on approach to warn us, but once they’re inside, they’re family.

        • Run into plenty of shepherds and even a bouvie (sp). Never got bit although some did growl. Got attacked once in a parking lot by a pit. It wasn’t even supposed to be on the property. No, they are not securry systems. Security systems don’t kill toddlers.

      • Ah, genetics expert are you?
        So I’m sure you know the exact part of “the DNA” that is the cause for aggression, right?
        Please, if you know this, let the world know. I’m sure you could have awards heaped upon you, for your advancements in canine neuroscience.

        Or could it be that you are running your mouth?

        I’m going to go with the latter.
        It seems to me, that someone in a job such as yourself, will run into the types of dogs that aren’t owned by the best of people. Renters coming and going at a moments notice. Transient trash who moves every time they get evicted. To human waste like that, a pitt bull is something of a status symbol. They perceive them as desirable because they want a dog that can be made as aggressive, much like the owners.

        If you will be honest with yourself… I bet you will be able to see a pattern. Those aggressive pitt bulls were all in low income inner city areas (the ghetto) or any other location similar to a typical “COPS” setting.

        • Ever heard of the “Warrior gene?” It is a variation of a sequence in human DNA that controls the amount of MAO-A enzyme that is produced. People with the “Warrior gene” are generally more aggressive, are less prone to depression, and have an inflated sense of self-worth. MAOIs can give people without the warrior gene similar traits (with plenty of other side-effects).

          More on point… Belyaev’s silver foxes (Neat stuff. google it!) prove that selective breeding can express tameness in foxes. Pit bulls are a product of selective breeding. They were bred for bloodsports some time in the 1800s and aggressive traits were favored by breeders. Training can subdue aggressive tendencies, but genetic traits can not be “trained out” of an animal.

          TLDR: Aggressive traits can be expressed by DNA. Pitbulls were bred to be aggressive. Good trainers can teach them to be more tame. Most people are not good dog trainers. There are too many pit bulls in shelters. The rent is too damn high…

        • Yes, that has been semi documented in humans. It’s hardly universally accepted fact, but it’s a pretty well documented.

          However, to my knowledge, they haven’t done the same testing on canines.

          I do know that DNA can have a huge influence an organisms actions, there’s no doubt.
          However, I don’t think it has been proven that pitt bulls, on average, have more aggressive genes than other breeds, on average.

        • It is not in the dna. It is in the training and handling. My childrens pit bulls loved people and especialy children. If I had one in my car and you aproached the car you would swear that the dog was going to eat you alive. But if I opened the door the dog wouuld jump out run up to you and lick your hand or face. If I hugged my daughter they would grab my pantleg and growl at me. Yes very protective but not aggresive and loved people!!!!

      • If your that scare of Pitbulls then you don’t want to meet a Cane Corso or Fila Brazilio (which I have owned) they will own you on the spot forget the bite they will maw you and take you down with there size and weight and aggression. This debate is as bad as AK vs AR. Its a dog it follows what humans set out for them. Breed them one way they are calm and in control, breed them another way they can be hyper and aggressive.

        I respect dogs even small ones they can bite you as much as the next dog but their size is less scary or dangerous. Still respect just like a weapon is imperative when dealing with reality. The issue is the sheeple are terrified of things that are not fluffy and passive which makes our society more histrionic every day.

        For me the problem is people who tend to be unpredictable and delusional.

        • Cane Corso, i.e., Italian Mastiffs, are guard dogs. They are not fighting dogs and they are not aggressive dogs. You don’t want to present a threat to the owner but even then the dogs first instinct is to pin you not eat you. The Fila Brasileiro is as much a hunting dog as it is a guard dog. It’s behavior is similar to a Plott Hound. Neither are aggressive dogs in the sense that they will attack just because.

      • I hope you realize that quoting dogsbite.org about dog attack statistics is no different than quoting the brady website for gun violence statistics. They have a motive and they are bending the facts to fit that motive. Just like I can with honesty say that the AR 15 is used in more mass shootings than other rifles, therefore they are dangerous. Does that mean that every AR-15 needs to go away? How many pitbulls are there in the country? hundreds of thousands? Millions? How many dog attacks TOTAL are there? I could only find 2 dozen fatalities in all of 2014.

        It is both ironic and sad that people can use the exact same logic that they fight so hard against for a different cause.

        • Please cite for me:

          * an instance where an AR-15 suddenly and without warning loaded itself with cartridges, aimed itself and pull it’s own trigger (all the while ignoring the commands of its master).

          * the biology of AR-15s and the deliberate breeding for certain personality traits.

        • 1. AR 15s are specifically designed to kill people in a military engagement. They have been refined for 60 years for that very purpose. Pitbulls were originally trained to fight and kill other dogs but be completely obedient and passive towards all people. Since the end of organized dog fighting 80+ years ago, the pitbull has not be bred or trained to fight in large quantities and has been diluted to become a work dog/pet. So, by your logic (and raw data), AR 15s are actually MORE dangerous than pit bulls and are not fit for private ownership.

          2. Guns kill orders of magnitude more people than ALL dog breeds combined. If you are going to argue that dogs or even certain dogs are inherently dangerous and not fit for private ownership based on less than 50 deaths per year then you have ZERO (none zip nada nunca) moral, ethical, or logical high ground to argue in favor of gun ownership, regardless of what any dog or gun is capable of doing.

        • “Guns kill orders of magnitude more people than ALL dog breeds combined.”

          Really? “Guns kill?”

          Guns don’t kill. People who pull the trigger kill other people. The gun is a tool. You are falling into the anti-gun meme by infusing life, will and evil into an inanimate object.

          Certain breeds of dogs have a tendency to randomly “go off” by themselves. As such, we should recognize that reality rather than pretend it doesn’t exist.

        • You said it, now prove it. Show which of their stats is wrong with verifiable data. Ie, an attack labeled as a pit that was some other breed. Should be easy for you.

      • Lemme see….

        “Despite the fact that pit bulls were bred to fight with each other, early breeders took pride in producing dogs that were trustworthy and friendly to people. Handlers bathed their opponent’s dog before a match, stood in the pits with the battling dogs and often pulled them apart to end a fight. Any dog who behaved aggressively toward a person was culled, or killed, to avoid passing on such an undesirable trait. Pit bulls typically lived in their owner’s homes, where they earned the nickname “nursemaid’s dog” because they were so reliable with young children. In fact, “Pete the Pup,” the children’s friend from the old TV series “Our Gang,” was a pit bull.” – http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/virtual-pet-behaviorist/dog-behavior/truth-about-pit-bulls

        You gonna say the ASPCA is wrong? How about this from the site of a well known trainer who works with difficult dogs (and can read them quite well.)

        “Would it surprise you to learn that pit bulls used to be America’s darlings? Before the mid-80s, stories of pit bull attacks are practically non-existent.” – http://www.cesarsway.com/dogbehavior/basics/How-Did-Pit-Bulls-Get-a-Bad-Rap

        Personally, I’ll put more faith and credence in what those sources say better than a site geared to destroy a breed because of a perceived fallacy.

        • 1909 Dog Bite Fatality: John P. Colby’s Fighting Pit Bull Kills Nephew”
          http://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/05/1909-fatality-john-p-colbys-fighting.html

          The Myth of “Culling” Man-Biters
          “Pit bull advocates must resort to lies to protect the breed. One of these lies is that breeders of fighting dogs culled biting pit bulls (also known as man-biters4). They even say that children are especially safe with pit bulls because “instant” culling occurred when any human aggression was shown. We know this is untrue about breeders of fighting dogs, both past and current, as well as by pit bulls today who are returned to their owners after an attack unaltered.”

        • I can’t reply to john galt, or I would.

          I don’t think he is smart enough to follow a rational argument, it’s probably best to just give up, and try to ignore him.

      • Given that Dog Bites relies primarily on media reports, I don’t trust them at all as far as what breed does what.

        I’ve seen the media confuse species (I once say a news caster refer to a bull snake as an anaconda FFS). I don’t trust them to ID breeds.

        • john gault; Pit bulls do not go off by them selves. Something has to set them off. A child pulling an ear will set any dog off to bite the person hurting it. If it was trained to fight and kill then that is what it will do to anyone hurting it. Chiuhas bite more people then any other dog. In the 70s I had 2 timber wolves that I raised from babies. If I told them to kill you, you were dead! They never bit anyone, but I never had to worry about my wife going anywhere as long as she took one of the wolves with her. When she would walk down the street with them the sheeple would cross to the other side. The people who understand animals and are not afraid of them would come up and pet them. It is all in the training and the treatment. You hurt any dog long enough it will attack you!!!

        • There is another point of visible bias straight from the website:

          About the founder

          Colleen Lynn resides in Austin, Texas and operates Lynn Media Group. On June 17th, 2007, she was attacked for approximately 5-seconds by a leashed pit bull while jogging in her former Seattle neighborhood. She was hospitalized for two days at Harborview Medical Center after undergoing surgery to repair a severe bone fracture. Four months later, she launched DogsBite.org. Learn more about Colleen Lynn by reading her four-year anniversary blog post about her attack.

          Read what parents, dog attack victims and advocates say about founder Colleen Lynn.

          Source: http://www.dogsbite.org/dogsbite-about.php

          How does revenge sound as a possible motive?

    • There is natural disposition as well. Our dog has the best natural disposition in the world. Plus, we have gone out of our way to make sure we trained her correctly. Everywhere we take her, everyone is super happy to see her. And she is super happy to see them. And she is incredibly gentle and submissive — even at the veterinarian’s office. More than one person has recognized her outstanding qualities and suggested that we make her an official therapy dog and take her to hospitals. Oh, did I mention she is a 55 pound Pit Bull? Did I also mentioned that she has never tried to bite anyone? And did I mention that both Yellow Labs that my neighbor owns — as well as the 6 month old Rottweiler that they were dogsitting — have tried to bite people on multiple occasions?

      I think the only major problem with “dangerous breeds” is that they are harder to train than other breeds. And being large/powerful dogs, if they decide to bite or attack, the results are a lot more gruesome.

      • My daughter started training dogs in the early 90s. She has trained many a pit bull, rotweiler and doberman. She spends many many hours with the dog and its owner. When you speak a command to any dog she has trained it obeys immediatly. She has retrained agressive dogs to be great family pets. It takes time that most people dont want to take and many dog owners shouldnt have any animal for a pet!!!!!

      • A source with an agenda. Take whatever they say with a grain of salt as the numbers are likely to be massaged to fit their view.

        • Gee, A site called “Fatal pitbull attacks” Nope, no agenda there. It’s like the Bloomberg of the dog world with you isn’t it?

        • The emotionalism and projection on the part of “animal lovers” is akin to the same emotionalism and projection foisted upon us by the gun-grabbers.

          All the “love” in the world won’t magically transform biology and DNA.

          “Wolf dogs killed owner, autopsy determines”
          http://www.post-gazette.com/local/westmoreland/2006/07/19/Wolf-dogs-killed-owner-autopsy-determines/stories/200607190197

          “Sandra L. Piovesan bled to death after being mauled by a pack of nine wolf dogs that she had raised as pets and was so devoted to that she once told a neighbor they “give me unqualified love.” ”

          Coyotes are dangerous, wolves are dangerous, pit bulls are dangerous. There’s no denying genetics.

        • Hardly emotionalism. Talk to PROFESSIONALS in the field. Ask a veterinarian what dog is dangerous. There’s a reason Sheriff Joe Arpaio has a no kill shelter for pit bulls. He actually houses them in an old air conditioned jail as opposed to how the prisoners are in tents. Because the dogs can be saved. My fiance works with many of the “dangerous” dogs, even Mickey(recent news about the dog that attacked a kid) is just a friendly loving dog that was chained outside for months(or even years) before his attack. He wasn’t a family pet. He was a resident dog that was chained up outside in the Arizona heat. Pretty sure you’d be pretty grouchy if you spent months chained up outside. We know the dogs far better than you. Yet you use made up facts to support your position. You use the scary scary news as proof that something needs to be done, for the children.

      • “One day that loveable Scooby Doo could unpredictably turn deadly”

        “Every redneck with a gun is just one bad day away from killing”

        Or whatever drivel that anti gunners seem to be unable to stop from spouting.
        Your lack of reasoning and logic is disappointing.
        You’re just like an anti.

      • john why dont you come on out here to Arizona and try to kill my dog. You will have to go over me first and being in Arizona I am always armed. Take your BS somewhere else, its not needed here or wanted here. You would probably run at the site of a pit bull anyway!!!!

  6. evil high capacity assault dogs who’s only purpose is to kill babies. UBC for all assault dog purchases. Sounds rather silly when you apply it to dogs…. or Moms demand action doggy style. I could do this all day, what have you got.

  7. At the risk of veering too far into “blame the victim” territory, I think the analogy can be extended to apply to child safety as well.

    Just as too few parents teach small children basic gun safety, so too we sure seem to have lost teaching children how to behave around unknown (to them) dogs.

    It’s easy to blame the gun or blame the dog; neither of those can really defend against the accusation. It’s a lot harder to look at oneself for the responsibility, especially as a parent.

    • You’ve veered directly into “blame the victim” territory.

      Just walking past a dog (minding your own business) shouldn’t require a person to alter their behavior and attempt to read the dog’s mind to determine what might set it off.

      Unless a dog is being deliberately taunted or abused, the animal (and their owner) is 100% responsible.

      • The animals actions are the direct responsibility of the owner.

        That is all. If a violent fool wants to keep a violent dog, bad things will happen.

    • Boy, did BOTH of you completely miss the point I was trying to make. But, hey, thanks for playing! It’s been fun!

  8. Uh,…Dogs are not inanimate objects. They make decisions and react to things. Sometimes inappropriately. Modern firearms, on the whole, fire only when the trigger is pulled.

    • Yep, that’s where the comparison breaks down just a bit. An abused or poorly trained AR15 doesn’t shoot a postman or wandering toddler in it’s territory because it thinks they are a threat.

      • Hmm.

        I don’t know if the analogy breaks down all THAT much in one respect.

        A neglected or mistreated dog can be dangerous or unpredictable.

        A neglected or mistreated firearm can be dangerous as well. Improper handling, such as firing with mud crammed into the muzzle, can have that inanimate object “turn on its owner” so to speak. Another analogy could be feeding a gun improper ammo.

        I think as a metaphor, the dog – gun thing has some interesting dimensions to consider.

        Just like a gun requires proper care, maintenance and use to function safely, so does a dog require proper care, training and handling.

    • I agree. I do not want my gun rights associated with a breed of animals that was bred for dog fighting.

      • well I guess it’s fair to compare pitbull to remington 700 rifles anyway….never quite sure when they are going to go off…

        • And they were recalled for a fix.
          Numerically, there were probably less 700 fatalities/injuries than Pit Bull attacks

  9. Certainly not every pit kills children, but literally every time I’ve heard about a child being killed by a dog, it turned out to be a pit bull. In my own small town (10k) a child walking down the road was killed by a pit bull just a couple of years ago. You can call it coincidence or cite any number of reasons that that pit bulls kill the most children, but to be honest with you I don’t care what the reasons are.

    Now, I don’t want to infringe of your right to own whatever you want that makes you happy. But if a pit bull comes up into my yard around my kids, based off of my reasonable past observations, I’ll put the animal down. I would (probably) not do the same for a lab or a poodle.

    • One more point; animals are NOT the same as guns. Period. They are different precisely because they have their own mind, and their own sinews and muscles to act on their own. Guns are inanimate; They rely upon a human to act. No animal can be trained to that point of submission. Even circus or zoo animals which have been trained for decades by professionals occasionally act in an unpredictable manner.

    • “But if a pit bull comes up into my yard around my kids, based off of my reasonable past observations, I’ll put the animal down. “

      Sorry, man, but if you are going to kill a dog based solely on its breed and not its actions at the moment, your past observations were not exactly reasonable. That’s an emotional response to anecdotal (non-controlled) evidence.

      Threat assessment applies to four legged animals as well as the two legged kind.

      • Yeah. That’s called being careful. If something lunges at your kid with malicious intent? Shoot it. If something’s just hanging out? Keep the damn weapon in the holster, jack. You can’t just shoot something for walking around in the neighbourhood.

      • So judging an animal’s probable tendencies based off of your observations or past actions is unreasonable? What if a bear walked up in your yard?

        • Do you apply that same logic to the race and mode of dress to a human in your yard?

          Your mindset sounds exactly how the anti’s try to paint us … ready to fire at any PERCEIVED threat.

          Now, about the bear. Yeah….same dang thing. What is it doing? Just being present is not a threat. And, yeah, I’ve been around bears. Quite a bit. NEVER felt threatened enough to just shoot one just for being there. Seen a man swat a black bear on the butt to get it to run off back into the woods one time.

          Threat Assessment is an important aspect of gun ownership, and one needs to give this serious thought before talk of opening fire based on what you THINK someone or something MIGHT do.

          My two cents, anyway.

        • A stray dog off the leash on your property, not knowing the animal and not knowing the owners? Dogs are chattel. The only problem is the shooting of a firearm within city limits.

        • “Do you apply that same logic to the race and mode of dress to a human in your yard?”

          Absolutely I do, and don’t pretend like you don’t. If in my area the majority of crimes were committed by a certain minority dressing in a certain manner, I would certainly take that into consideration when making my threat assessments. If you let political correctness cloud your judgement about protecting yourself and your kids, far be it from me to tell you you’re wrong. But I have no such qualms.

          But really I doubt you do either. If you tell me you react the same way when two gangsta dressed kids approach you one night vs two kid’s dressed like, say, Jehovah’s Witnesses I probably won’t believe you. Pitt Bulls deserve their reputation based off of the aggregate actions of their breed. Whether those tendencies are genetic or a result of training makes absolutely no difference to me.

        • You’re absolutely right, sambo. If young men dressed in “gangsta clothes” cut across a yard but otherwise don’t act dangerously or make any threatening movements, we should absolutely gun them down without first at least trying to shoo them away nonviolently, or just waiting inside until they go away or become threatening.

          Seriously, though, ANY wild, stray, or lost animal should be approached with caution. What I find most troubling about your statement, honestly, isn’t that you think pitts are dangerous, but rather that you apparently think that any breed not on some “dangerous breeds” list must be completely safe. My recommendation would be to treat ALL strangers (animal and human alike) with some small amount of caution until you have more information to categorize them as more friendly or more hostile.

        • “Absolutely I do, and don’t pretend like you don’t. “

          I’m sorry, but I don’t shoot people just for being in my yard. Say it with me…”ability, opportunity and jeopardy.”

          Good luck with your murder conviction with the attitude you have.

          You are living the stereotype the anti’s have of gun owners and gun rights advocates. So, thanks for that.

          I’m beginning to think you are trolling, that you are providing a little public “confirmation bias” for those that mine blog comments for quotes.

        • Just spent 10 years in Alaska, there were bears in the yard all the time. Leave them alone and there little ones alone and they will leave you alone. And just for your info; moose kill more people then Grizzlies do!!!!

      • “if you are going to kill a dog based solely on its breed and not its actions at the moment, your past observations were not exactly reasonable.”

        Lets substitute “wolf” or “lion” in place of “dog”. Kind of different? Wolves, lions and dogs have “wild” origins. Dogs have been domesticated, but the wild instinct is still there. We’ve seen video where the kids in a third world country are petting, rubbing and tugging on a male lion…having a blast until one boy steps on the lion’s paw and all of a sudden, the lion gets po’d.

        The reason pitts have the rep is its damage is worse than the average mutt and much worse than when the 3lb. chihuahua goes on a rampage.

        Guns are non-living objects where as dogs are self aware creatures with intelligence and emotions. As for putting one down in the yard, I’d say the real parallel is with EDC. It isn’t that an attack is likely to happen, but rather the stakes are too high to not be prepared.

        Spend a couple years around dogs and they’ll tell you what they’re thinking.
        Wagging tail and ears up = “glad you here”
        Tail between legs, ears back and laying on stomach = “You’re the boss and I’m uncomfortable”
        Sitting down and growling = “You best get back, I will bite yo a##”
        Running toward you, ears back, growling and teeth showing = “I’m going to take you out if you don’t shoot me now”
        I hate to see tails and ears cut because it hampers their ability to communicate with you and other dogs.

        • Jeremy no dog is deceptive. They aren’t out walking the neighborhood, planning their next sneak attack. A dog won’t pretend to be your friend just to get you in biting range. They’ll always tell you exactly what they’re feeling/thinking. It’s not the dog’s fault if you don’t recognize when they’re telling you to stay away.

      • The fact that 62% of dog-bite fatalities are caused by pit bulls is certainly cause for a person to be on heightened alert. (And that figure doesn’t include the shark-like non-lethal maulings caused by pit bulls.)

        Therefore, a reasonable person has far more to fear (in terms of death or grave bodily injury) from a charging pit bull than from a charging cocker spaniel. So, I imagine they would draw on a pit bull sooner than drawing on a cocker spaniel.

        Whether they pull the trigger on the pit bull should depend on the totality of the situation and the availability of other non-lethal tools (for example, pepper spray).

        That said, the average dog owner (including owners of birds, deer and therapy dogs) probably has more to fear from trigger-happy cops than trigger-happy neighbors.

        Police State USA: Police vs. Pets
        http://www.policestateusa.com/tag/police-vs-pets/

    • Calling a dog a “pit bull” guarantees a news feed and, if you’re story is graphic enough, you may even get an network feed. But you won’t get it by saying “a bad dog attacked . . .” or a “terrier mix attacked”. It has to be not just a pit-bull, but a “vicious pitt-bull”. Tell a naive, uninformed, public that any dog is a pit-bull and your story gets picked up. News producers know all about this, of course, but their jobs are about ratings so as long as “pit-bull” files they’ll go with the story. It’s all about ratings. Otherwise they just don’t care.

      I’ve always felt that a great many dogs are worth far more to humanity than their owners.

      • Find a story where they called a poodle a pit, and I will believe you. (Link please) I see lots of times where owners call their pits something else.

    • The reason you always hear about pit bull attacks is because they are the ones doing most of the killing, not because they are “maligned” as pit bull apologists would have you believe.

      9-Year U.S. Dog Bite Fatality Stats – 2005 to 2013

      62.2% – Pit bull
      11.7% – Rottweiler
      3.9% – Husky
      3.9% – German shepherd
      3.5% – Mixed breed
      3.5% – Mastiff/Bullmastiff
      3.2% – American bulldog
      2.1% – Boxer
      6.0% – Combination

      Source:
      http://www.dogsbite.org/pdf/9-year-dog-bite-fatality-chart-dogsbiteorg.pdf

      • I’m not a data analyst, but I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night. No wait. I’ve got that backwards.

        The problem with the dogsbite.org “studies” is that they’re based on unsubstantiated press accounts rather than actual breed identification. There’s another comment to this story that mentions garbage in, garbage out as a truism, and with this data it applies. Why should anyone, especially on this site, assume that the press is particularly good at breed identification given their amazing track record with accurately recording the details of firearms related stories? These stories are emotional pieces meant to drive readers to advertising, not meticulously verified with veterinary experts.

        Fortunately, there is an example of a study that is both statistically rigorous, and conducted by veterinary experts:
        http://nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/dog-bite-related-fatalities/#1

        • The National Canine Research Institute is a PR front group for pit bull apologists. Starry-eyed dreamers who project their emotions onto a particular breed and expect that the breed’s characteristics and temperament can be magically transformed through warm fuzzies.

          Much the same way that the anti-gun crowd believes that “gun free zone” signs will magically stop bad guys.

          And they’re about as honest in their motives as MAIG, Everytown for Gun Safety, Moms Demand, etc.

          Their tag line is “Preserving the Human-Canine Bond” — a more accurate tag line would be “Preserving the Pit Bull Breed”

          What the anti-firearms crowd and the pro-pit bull lovers have in common is emotionalism, a belief in magical thinking and a refusal to confront reality.

        • You’re one to talk John, quoting dogsbite.org and other anti-pit bull sites. NCRC has FAR more credibility than any of the sites you posted your “facts” from.

          And seriously.. 33 fatalities from ALL dogs and you want to ban a SPECIFIC BREED. Why don’t you try calling them “Assault Dogs” maybe you can get on the news as the next Shannon Twats

        • I never once suggested banning the dogs or the breed. But we need to acknowledge the reality.

          Much the same way that TTAG acknowledge the “ugly” part of gun ownership:

          * Idiot Gun Owner of the Day
          * Passively Constructed Negligent Discharge of the Day
          * the long-gun open carry debacle
          * what bad guys do with guns
          * etc.

          Just like we can’t wish away the terrible tragedies caused by people using guns, we can’t wish away that pit bulls are inherently more dangerous than all other breeds combined.

          The most salient fact that we all need to face is that a dog (ANY breed of dog) is not comparable to a gun.

          A gun is a harmless hunk of metal until used for good (or evil) by a person.

          A dog is a living being with unpredictable behavior. Some breeds more so than others.

          Peace.

        • You say you don’t want to ban the breed, but you get your “facts” straight from dogsbite.org. A little clue for you. They are the MDA/Everytown/Brady Campaign for dogs. They have absolute ZERO credibility on their statistics, because of the way they compile them and how they twist the stats to fit their agenda. Sound familiar? Ever since she was attacked by a dog that was said to be a “pit bull” she has been on a mission to target the bully breeds. She wants breed specific legislation, despite EVERY SINGLE REPUTABLE ANIMAL ORGANIZATION BEING AGAINST IT
          http://stopbsl.org/bsloverview/the-lack-of-professional-support/

          Interestingly the site you post acts EXACTLY like MDA. Any dissent in their comments section gets immediately deleted. Sound familiar?

          They call any dog that resembles in any way shape or form a pit bull a “bully breed” which includes mastifs, boxers, bulldogs, cane corso, despite these dogs being bred for different purposes altogether. Not all the dogs counted by them as Pit Bulls are in fact actually pit bulls. So it looks like they like to make up their own “facts” as well… Sound familiar?

    • “You can call it coincidence”
      You could, if you are stupid.

      You could also blame it on the breed… if you are stupid.

      It’s the owner. If you own a dog, you are responsible for it’s actions. Train it to act properly. If this is not a possibility, make sure it is never out of your control.

      I had a dog a few years back that was severely abused. He was nearly dead when I found him, and he tried to attack me. He had to be restrained at the vets office, and it took months before he was calm enough to be enjoyable around.

      I never let him out of my control for a moment. He was always locked up securely. Other people were not allowed around him, aside from adult friends of mine who knew the risks. He was a good dog in his own way for the last 4 years of his life.

      He was without a doubt a dangerous dog. So I adjusted my actions accordingly, and negated the danger.

      It’s all about the owners. Don’t be foolish.
      Stupid/violent people have violent dogs that aren’t under control.

      • How DARE you act like a responsible pet owner, instead of just putting down the dog outright! Don’t you know that if it makes even ONE person have a false sense of safety, it’s better to kill a dog than to risk someone getting years of enjoyment from keeping it as a pet?

        Seriously, though, nice story. I hope you have many happy years together

        • Thanks JJ.

          We had a great 4 years together. He never attacked me past that first night, though he was cautious for months. He never liked new people, and took a long time to warm up to them. I was lucky enough to have a large closet/pantry area that I was able to remodel into a nice room for him. I could keep him 100% away from new guests without making him feel like he was restrained. He was big and dangerous, but with a bit of thought I was able to make it an enjoyable experience.

      • The problem is the ASPCA and other “humane” organizations have been engaging in a misguided and misleading attempt to rebrand pit bulls as a lovely pet for your average suburban family.

        The public is being suckered into adopting these dogs without realizing what they got themselves into, until it’s too late.

        For example.

        Girl, 4, is mauled to death by one of family’s TWO pit bulls while watching TV with her mom
        http://tinyurl.com/mh62q4f (Daily Mail)

        The ASPCA and other groups are glossing over the inherent danger and nature of pit bulls vs. other breeds.

        Pit bull owners should be fully informed so they can at least decide whether or not to buy a gun in case their dog turns on them.

    • Not sure about a standard poodle. They are extremely smart and ill tempered. They can take on a German Shepherd and win.

  10. I have the over capacity assault Alaskan Malamute Rough Collie cross that can empty himself in half a second. He has that rear rump thingie that goes up.

    • Actually, if I had to pick a dog to stick in a Ronald McDonald house at Riley Hospital, it would be the Malamute Collie cross I have.

  11. after being attracted by a Rottweiler (getting teeth marks on my back), it’s owners said, “he has never done that before!”

    Guns do not have their own minds – dogs do!

    • And just what were this Rotts intentions after he was ATTRACTED to you and you ended up with teeth marks on your back?

      • I was walking down the sidewalk – the night before trash day – his owner was by the curb (with a trash can or two) as I walked by. The owner had failed to close the gate, so, I was between the dog and its owner, moving at a fast walk. It was during a heat wave (later, I was told that the dog had not been eating much the last couple of days, presumably, because it was so hot). The dog may have though he was protecting his owner from an attack – when I saw the dog, I turned my back to it. The owner was right there, and probably grabbed the dog to stop the attack (I was looking away from the dog and did not see why he stopped the attack, but, it did not last long).

        The owner never acted as if he thought he was in danger – it is just my best guess about what the dog may have been thinking (in addition to being in a bad mood because of the weather).

        As I said before, guns do not have their own minds – dogs do!!!

        • Please don’t tell me that you are banging your head on the table because “the dog was just protective.” If that is your point then those of us who think pit bulls are dangerous are correct. The dog’s instinct is to attack those who it believes presents a threat to his owner even when no threat exists.

    • “He’s never done that before!!!1!!!”

      “my poor (gangbanging) son was a good boy, he just fell in with a bad crowd!”

      If you don’t understand that the lie is just a reactionary defense then you have no place in the debate.

      • without evidence, I am expected to assume they are lying? (they [dog owner & family] sounded more confused and bewildered, than like they were making an excuse). Were they also lying when they told me the dog was good with kids? Both are certainly possible, but, I doubt it. Since you were not there, perhaps you have a better idea of what was going on than I do, but, again, I doubt it.

        Most, if not all, dogs will act to protect their owners & friends from an attack – not all dogs will assume walking down a sidewalk toward its owner is an attack. Some do.

        Feel free to bang your head against it, though I doubt it will do the desk any good.

  12. Yeh, I got ya pit bull right hea, got dem vicious teeth and all you need ta do is press dis button and he’ll stop actin’ a fool.
    Oh yes, this is a pit bull, a very nice and wonderful dog. We DISCOURAGE shock collars because he is already friendly and loyal as can be.
    Apply to guns and you will see why MDA is so… Forceful in their acts.

    • Shock Collars are GREAT training tools, particularly on large muscular breeds, and even more so with males.

      We as humans have a tendency to crank the voltage higher than needed, an emotional response to the dog doing something you disapprove of, as opposed to using the minimum amount of charge to cease the bad behavior.

      Honestly, I try to train thatyou should get to the point where you rarely EVER use the shock setting, and the beep is more than enough.

  13. Unfortunately the large majority of owners of the “dangerous” breed category, at least around here, get them specifically because of their rep and train them (or don’t train them, depending on how you look at it) to be mean attack animals.

    You can’t find a doper or meth head around here that doesn’t have a pit or a rotty.

  14. That is odd seems the anti gun arguement is recycling a lot of arguements from other anti (insert activity or object here) movements. As for the pitbull I had one when my son was very young aside from her fascination with chewing furniture & digging holes in the yard she was a very lovable and gentle natured dog. so much so a 6 month old could crawl across the carpet, grab her tail, ears, jowls, or whatever other part and drag her across the hardwood floor most she ever did was lick him till he got to cacklin so hard he loosened his grip enough for her to escape then it turned into a big game of inter species tag.

    • You have no idea. Do a little research on anti-anything. Believe it or not, there was a movement in 1943 against sliced bread, and the slogan was “to stop sliced bread for the children” the banners believed that because sliced bread was so easy to eat, children would eat too much carbohydrates and become obese. The good old NYT was even at that time backing the banners.

      Look to anyone who wants to ban anything in about any country and you have the same recycled themes.

      • Yeah and they all boil down to “we wanna ban this. Any opposition?”
        “Yeah!?!? Well LOOK AT THIS BABY!!! STIL OPPOSED!?!? LOOK AT THIS MOTHER F@$*ING BABY!!!”

  15. 6 weeks ago at 9PM on a Sunday night I was walking my dog down the road that goes by my house. A pit bull pushed its way past the owner, ran down a 300 foot driveway and attacked my dog. After $1100 for vet bills (paid by the pit bull’s owner) my dog is back to normal. The costs don’t cover the time spent caring for my dog, the cleaning of the blood spilled on my car’s back seat on the way to the vet emergency room, and re-introducing my dog to stranger dogs that she does not know or trust.

    I have no problem with owning “problem” breeds, but if they attack another dog or a person, then they need to be put down or removed to a place where they can do no further harm.

    ALL my neighbors suggested that I walk my dog while open carrying my shotgun to remind everyone of the attack. This was the second time a dog in the care of these people attacked another dog unprovoked. I don’t feel that “dangerous” dogs should be prohibited, but I do believe in the “one Bite” rule.

    The difference between a dog and a gun is that gun owner has control over who gets shot while the dog owner is responsible for the independent actions of his dog. Dog owners know that their dog does not obey every command every time. Unlike a gun, a dog can go off on its own.

    • “This was the second time a dog in the care of these people attacked another dog unprovoked. “

      It seems to me that this statement fully supports the author’s thesis and several of the comments made early in the comment section.

    • Why didn’t you do the rest of us a favor and shoot the dog? In my state, you can shoot dogs attacking other dogs, livestock, or people without fear of prosecution or civil liability. Maybe look to see what the laws are in your state, but for damned sure, carry a gun from now on. For the children.

      • Also true in my state. I grew up on a livestock farm,strays dogs were shot, menacing dogs were shot.

        One of my neighbors has a white female pit . They’ve raised Ariel since she was a pup after she was hit by a car while her former owner (junkie) left her to wander. She’s a great dog around their children,etc. She’ll bark at me on occasion but stops when she notices that it’s me. Comes up & wants petted ,etc. Yeah, I’m apparently one of her humans.

        New neighbors on the other side moved their white trash arses in a while ago.They’ve an older grey mouthed hunting breed,who can’t die soon enough to suit me. When not in their house,they tie him up with a chain long enough to reach my property & back deck. If that dog makes the mistake of coming towards me again while growling, and being aggressive. The cops won’t be the ones to shoot him.

        Best damned dog I ever had was a Coyote that a former girl friend raised from a pup.

    • I had a case similar when a neighbor’s pitbull attacked our family dog. I shot the pitbull and the neighbors were pissed off at me. They sued, they lost, I filed a counterclaim, won, and it ended beautifully. These neighbors no longer live there (they moved to california. haha). I hope they get cancer.

      • Dude. It’s totally unwise to put those vibes into the universe. Also, thanks for representing the people of the gun so flatteringly on a public blog that MDA and similar douche bags monitor.

  16. As the happy owner of a rescued pit bull, and as a volunteer at a local animal shelter and a non-profit rescue group, I am fully convinced of the “deed versus breed” philosophy. In fact, I see evidence of it every day. We get dogs that have been neglected, abandoned, beaten, fought, stabbed, shot…even burned. The ones that are lucky enough to be saved from death have an almost 100% success rate when matched with the right owners. Most of the pits who are adopted but later have to be euthanized are returned dogs. Something about coming from abuse to a shelter to a good home and back to a shelter breaks them mentally. On the flip side, we have awful people who come to the shelter on a daily basis looking for pits who are mean, aggressive, and not “snipped.” They leave when the dogs they meet greet them with wagging tails and wet tongues. Dirtbags like this give the breed a bad name, not the dogs themselves. It’s too bad we can’t euthanize them.

    It is refreshing to find people who are on the same page as me. I only wish there were more of us. Seven years after rescuing him from a wholly nightmarish situation, the closest my Brewski has come to resembling anything aggressive, is when he barks out of frustration because he can’t catch that damned laser pointer.

    Blame the deed, not the breed.

    • The people who fall for these poor, abused dogs and think they can magically turn them around with “love” are sadly deluded, much the same way a woman who stays with an abusive husband believes she can “change” him.

      Pitbull owners (see “Breed Ambassador” and “Lion Tamer Complex” sections)
      http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-owners.php

      “Studies show that pit bull owners employ strategies to disguise the true nature of the breed by engaging in distortions, denial and overcompensation and by projecting blame after attacks.”

      • So, what’s the process for reporting this “dogsbite.com” spammer?

        He’s spamming links to that website in each and every comment on this page.
        How do we report him for this foolishness?

        • Dogs bite me . org is a typical Leftist, Liberal woman who is impervious to logic.

          She makes her $$ on this anti-advocacy.

          Her parallel in the gun world is Shannon Watts.

          added later: oops I see you are referring to John Galt. He’s Probably a sock puppet for Colleen Lynch aka Shannon Watts of the anti-pit bull brigade.

      • so you don’t think some “act right” works as well for canines as it does for spouses?

    • I love you but this is bullshit. you have a right to choose whatever kind of dog you like that matches with the needs of your family. make no excuses for that.

      Anyone who makes you feel like you need to tell them a story about how great your dog is or what a great service you are doing for dog-dom to rescue one should go F&ck themselves.

    • “On the flip side, we have awful people who come to the shelter on a daily basis looking for pits who are mean, aggressive, and not “snipped.”… Dirtbags like this give the breed a bad name, not the dogs themselves. It’s too bad we can’t euthanize them.”

      Agreed…If only.

  17. I have 4 ferrets. Ferrets are banned in Department of Defense housing, NYC, & The People’s Republic of California. These areas are also “Gun Free Zones”. My ferrets and firearms have not (yet) harmed me or anyone else. Good thing that I am not a prohibited person.

    Everyone should get a ferret instead or a firearm or vicious canine.

    /sarcasm

  18. THATS EXACTLY RIGHT!!! AND WHAT IM STILL TRYING TO TELL SOME PEOPLE!!!! ITS NOT THE TOOL OR WEAPON(offence or defense) YOU HAVE OR USE. ITS HOW WELL YOU KNOW IT AND OPERATE IT EITHER LIVING ANIMAL,TOOL FROM YOUR SHED OR A GUN!!!! OTHERWISE ITS JUST OWNER MALFUNCTION, NEGLIGENCE &STUPIDITY!!!!

  19. Everybody knows the pitt bull is a gentile, docile, peace loving breed. Don’t believe it, just ask the Pitt Bull fanatics.

    Me?

    When it comes to pitt bulls headed my direction, I shoot first and ask questions later.

    • Everyone says that open carry gun owners are gentile, docile, peace loving breed. Don’t believe it, just ask the gun owners

      Me?

      When it comes to gun owners coming my direction, I call the police and have them arrested and pray they get shot doing so.

      Yep, Paul, you might as well be a gun grabber, your logic is the same. Shoot first, ask questions later.

    • Watch out there Paul.
      I don’t own a “Pitt”, but anyone who just starts (illegally) shooting at my dog any myself (we are never far apart) is going to receive return fire. One of us won’t be leaving alive.

    • Paul, you would! Pascal said it well: you employ the same logic as a gun grabber. Do you have a filter between your brain and mouth? This is the Internet. You have time to stop and think about what you’re typing and how it reflects upon you. I could only imagine what you’re like real time. Lets get coffee sometime, I’m downright curious.

  20. Anybody know what happens when a 5yo is running around screaming (like 5yr olds do) and trips over a pits leash tangling up with the dog? A chihuahua may also bite. The difference is that the chihuahua won’t rip a kids face off.
    I’ve seen it several times.

    • Exactly right. And, as other commenters have already pointed out, this is a poor analogy to guns. Dogs are sentient beings, act on past experiences, respond to stimuli, AND most importantly have been breed for certain characteristics that cause them to act and respond in predictable ways. Unlike a firearm, they have intelligence and and will go off on their own.

      Consider,
      when I want a dog that will retrieve a dead duck, I get a Lab
      when I want a dog to track a lost child, I get a bloodhound
      when I want a dog to find and hold a covey of quail, I get a pointer
      when I want a dog to herd sheep, I get a collie
      oh, and if I want a dog that will, by its nature and breed be reliable for attacking, I get, umm, what is it now….?

      If you want an analogy, how about the pit bull crowd, that after a terrible mauling or death of a child, blame the owner for poor training, never the dog and certainly never the breed – this sounds SO much like the mother of a murderous thug saying, “oh my poor baby was just hanging around the wrong crowd, he was a good boy, he was turning his life around.” The disingenuous arguments by pit bull apologists falls flat under the most rudimentary considerations.

      A pit bull,Presa Canario, or similar are exceptionally dangerous compared to the Chihuahua and therefore require exceptional care and exceptional confinement. They need to be restricted from access to children, elderly, and other pets – their typical victims. Community restrictions make sense to me.

      • “oh, and if I want a dog that will, by its nature and breed be reliable for attacking, I get, umm, what is it now….?”

        Bingo.

        What is dogfighting and what does it have to do with pit bulls?
        http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-faq.php

        “Pit bulls are the dog of choice amongst dogmen, individuals who fight their pit bulls against other pit bulls. Dogmen consider pit bull terriers, who they commonly call “100% bulldogs,” to be the ultimate canine gladiator. Pit bulls were selectively bred for “gameness,” the ability to finish a fight. A truly gamedog will continue fighting “on stumps,” two or more broken legs, and far worse.”

        The Complete Gamedog- A Guide to Breeding and Raising the American Pit Bull Terrier
        http://www.scribd.com/doc/8919228/The-Complete-Gamedog-A-Guide-to-Breeding-and-Raising-the-American-Pit-Bull-Terrier

        There is no analogy between guns and dogs.

        A firearm is an inanimate object. A tool.

        A better comparison would be against other inanimate objects capable of inflicting death, in no particular order:

        * swimming pools
        * common household cleaning chemicals
        * ladders
        * automobiles
        * bicycles
        * knifes
        * matches
        * gasoline
        * machetes
        * baseball bats
        * tire irons
        * stairs

      • This “he was such a good dog” to “my kid was such a perfect angel” comparison has popped up several times in this thread. There’s one big problem with that argument: Dogs aren’t people! Humans are capable of self-determination; being “your own man”. A dog will be exactly what you’ve raised it and trained it to be.

    • No, but I have had 3, 4, 5 year old nieces and nephews do that with my pits, pull on their tails, pull on their ears, take away their food and the worse I’ve seen is my pits lick the kids to death.

  21. The irony is that the people who are standing up for the rights of the dogs, would most likely be on the side of those trying to limit the rights of gun owners.

    Interesting point. Touchy feely animal lovers are anti gun leftists. Sounds about right, like how most vegans are probably anti gun leftists, but do you have evidence to support your opinion?

  22. “The irony is that the people who are standing up for the rights of the dogs, would most likely be on the side of those trying to limit the rights of gun owners.”

    You sure are right about that! Check out this article from last year, discussing the Obama administrations statement about dog breeds.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/20/obama-breed-specific-legislation_n_3785911.html

    And the white house statement that they are discussing,

    “We don’t support breed-specific legislation — research shows that bans on certain types of dogs are largely ineffective and often a waste of public resources.
    In 2000, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention looked at twenty years of data about dog bites and human fatalities in the United States. They found that fatal attacks represent a very small proportion of dog bite injuries to people and that it’s virtually impossible to calculate bite rates for specific breeds.

    The CDC also noted that the types of people who look to exploit dogs aren’t deterred by breed regulations — when their communities establish a ban, these people just seek out new, unregulated breeds. And the simple fact is that dogs of any breed can become dangerous when they’re intentionally or unintentionally raised to be aggressive.

    For all those reasons, the CDC officially recommends against breed-specific legislation — which they call inappropriate. You can read more from them here.

    As an alternative to breed-specific policies, the CDC recommends a community-based approach to prevent dog bites. And ultimately, we think that’s a much more promising way to build stronger communities of pets and pet owners.”

    • “As an alternative to breed-specific policies, the CDC recommends a community-based approach to prevent dog bites. And ultimately, we think that’s a much more promising way to build stronger communities of pets and pet owners.”

      Community Organizer in Chief hard at work.

      Ha! Would that Occupier could apply the same logic to AR-15s, and guns in general. How about building stronger communities by empowering people to use guns to defend themselves from criminals?

      And for all the pit-lovers and trolls ready to attack me as a hypocrite regarding guns vs. pit bulls. I haven’t advocated that they be banned. However, dog adopters and the general public should be fully informed of the dangers pit bulls present and not have the risks glossed over.

      The pit bull marketing campaign is causing these dogs to end up with owners who don’t understand the risks and resulting in more pit bulls spreading throughout communities, instead of their numbers dwindling.

      How about a campaign by ASPCA to educate the public about pit bulls the same way the NRA educates the public in the proper handling of firearms, and kids through the Eddie Eagle program.

  23. I “had”an 10lb mini dachsie who was in our front yard when 2 of the wanna be bad ass biker “neighbor’s” pits ran down the hill and shredded him in a matter of seconds (I can still hear him squealing in my mind), needless to say they met an untimely end at the muzzle of my 12 gauge when they turned on me. The “neighbor almost met the same end when he went off on this old Vietnam Vet Jarhead. He’s lucky he’s doing 25 to life for his 3rd felony instead of pushing up daisys like his POS dogs.

  24. Guns don’t have legs and a mind of their own, nor instincts or certain breed specific idiosyncrasies.

    Guns don’t decide to hop over or under the fence on their own and tear up people’s trash or sometimes tear up people.

    Guns don’t feel tired, grumpy, sick or scared and have a commensurate influence on their behavior.

    Guns have zero intent or will of their own. Animals, no matter how well trained, do have a degree of unpredictability and autonomy of thought and action.

    Cue: “OMG! Are you okay?!? Fluffy never bit anyone before! She must have been scared of your tie!” Etc.

    I know what you are getting at in the article, but I don’t feel it’s a valid comparison.

  25. Where ya’ been rev? Big +1. In my town south of Chicago the only reason anyone has a pit bull is to kill, intimidate or fight. And they’re ugly as hell…bring the hate.

  26. The author’s whole premise falls apart when he says “all breeds do what their owner has trained them (or not trained) to do . . .” This shows so much ignorance about dogs it’s shocking. First, you can’t train a breed. You can train a dog, but you sure as hell can’t train a breed. On the other hand, you can certainly breed a breed. Lots and lots of behavioral traits are bred into dogs. Aggression (and passivity) can be and are bred.

    Some breeds are without a doubt more aggressive than other breeds, and pits are an aggressive breed.

    • This is true, but you shouldn’t blame an entire breed of dog for people who buy the wrong dog breed. Just because some people can’t handle them doesn’t mean no one should have them, right?

      • Hey, that sounds like some other argument I hear all the time, maybes its about guns or something…. 🙂

      • I never said anything about banning pit bulls. I said the author’s argument was no good.

    • Aggression can absolutely be bred in or out of a breed. Pit bulls were without question bred to be aggressive, not signal their attack, and fight to the death.

      For reverse situation, read about the Russian fox study, where they bred out aggression from wild foxes.

      Taming the Wild
      http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2011/03/taming-wild-animals/ratliff-text/1

      “Only a handful of wild animal species have been successfully bred to get along with humans. The reason, scientists say, is found in their genes.”

  27. I love how people say Pits are aggressive… mine is scared half to death of a pink spray bottle full of water or a water house wielded by either of my boys (3&4 y.o) oh and the 2.5 lbs of coiled fury that is the girlfriend’s cat and car rides (loud exhaust) and thunderstorms.

    Also Pits weren’t bred for fighting other dogs they were bred for bull and bear fighting in ancient Rome. Another interesting fact Pits were historically used as “nanny dogs” in the early 20th century up until around the 30’s I believe it was. However thanks to Mike Vick & those like him us Pit owners & our dogs catch a bad rap. Yes my dog has bit me once or twice but that wasn’t an attack that was playing tug of war with a piece of rope and him tryin to get a grip (the lab mix has done it too.) In fact the only animal to have attacked me for no good reason is the friggin cat.