Perspective: Mass Shootings Are Neither More Frequent or More Deadly in America

slate 251 mass shootings

Courtesy slate.com

By Miguel A. Faria, Jr., M.D.

Mass shootings are a heinous crime, and for the victims and the rest of the population, a tragedy. That should not detract from the fact that many, if not most, of the culprits are deranged malcontents, who in many ways are aberrant products of the times in which we live. Nor should we abdicate our responsibility to report the facts surrounding these tragedies.

For example, despite what you have been led to believe and contrary to sensationalized reporting, mass shootings are not more frequent today, only more publicized and propagandized.

Northeastern University Criminal Justice Professor James Fox reported that the highest casualty rate for mass murders in the past three decades occurred in 1977. In that year, 38 criminals killed 141 victims. Compare this to 1994, which had the lowest number of mass murders: 31 criminals murdered 74 people.

In his latest article, Professor Fox reiterated:

According to a careful analysis of data on mass shootings (using the widely accepted definition of at least four killed), the Congressional Research Service found that there are, on average, just over 20 incidents annually. More important, the increase in cases, if there was one at all, is negligible. Indeed, the only genuine increase is in hype and hysteria.

From 2000 to 2013 the FBI, which tracks mass shootings as “active shooter incidents,” has found an even lower average of 11.4 incidents occurring per year. One problem is that the definition of what constitutes a mass-shooting incident varies from one publication or organization to the next.

What is clearly evident is that the incidents are not increasing, despite media hype and sensationalization. Yet, obfuscating for political purposes and obviously to increase their numbers, anti-gun activists have tried to label any incident with two or more casualties as a mass shooting, and public health officials have even attempted to lump murder-suicides as mass shootings!

In a moment of clarity, a Washington Post report summarizes the problem as follows:

Similarly, Northeastern University Professor of Criminologist James Alan Fox has said that the inclusion of statistics from the FBI’s ‘active shooter’ report gives the false impression that incidents are rising when they are not. ‘A majority of active shooters are not mass shooters,’ Fox told Time. ‘A majority kills fewer than three.’ On Friday, Fox wrote in USA Today that ‘media folks reminded us of the unforgettable, high profile shootings that have taken place over the past few months, hinting of a problem that has grown out of control… as if there is a pattern emerging.’

Incidentally, mass killings are not unique to the United States because of wide gun availability. France, for example had more mass killings in one single year, 2015, than there were mass shootings in the United States in all of Obama’s two terms (eight years).

And at home, California, one of the states with the strictest gun control laws, including background checks, has the highest number of mass-shooting incidents at 21 cases, counting from 1966 to 2017. We must keep in mind, though, that despite the tragic nature and sensationalism accompanying these heinous crimes, mass shootings represent a miniscule number, one percent or less of homicides, in the U.S.

In the aftermath of the tragic 2018 Valentine’s Day high school shooting in Parkland, Florida—where 17 students were massacred by criminal gunman Nikolas Cruz—dramatic calls for drastic gun control measures and exaggerated claims about the number of mass shootings in the U.S. were made.

For instance, Democrat Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut made the mendacious claim, “This happens nowhere else other than the United States of America.” The colluding American media did not take Senator Murphy to task, as they do with President Trump’s every pronouncement.

In fact, America is not the worst country for mass shootings and does not even make it to the top ten, despite the record number of guns in the hands of Americans. France, Norway, Belgium, Finland and the Czech Republic, for example, all have more deaths from mass shootings than the U.S., and in fact, from 2009 to 2015, the European Union had 27 percent more casualties per mass shooting incidents than the U.S.

Let’s stop sensationalizing violence, turning deranged malcontents into celebrities, even in death, and using the tragedies for pushing, time and again, for more gun control that only disarms citizens and place them at the mercy of criminals, including rampage shooters.

Miguel A. Faria, Jr., M.D. is a retired Clinical Professor of Neurosurgery and Adjunct Professor of Medical History at Mercer University School of Medicine. He is Associate Editor in Chief and World Affairs Editor of Surgical Neurology International. He served on the CDC’s Injury Research Grant Review Committee.

This article originally appeared at drgo.us and is reprinted here with permission. 

comments

    1. avatar U suck says:

      Shut up fag. I bet in real life you get beat up a lot. And then forcefully sodomized.

      1. avatar Pg2 says:

        No wonder it’s so easy to negatively stereotype gun owners.

        1. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          I’m beginning to think Dan allows Vlad & Pg2 to stir up the pot here because it creates “controversy” and keeps certain users coming back for future articles. More visits for the site tally. At least, from a webpage manager’s logic.

          That’s the only reason I can think of why these two clowns can constantly get away with ignoring the rules.

        2. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          Guesty McGuesterson says:
          August 22, 2019 at 16:02
          vote——————————I’m beginning to think Dan allows Vlad & Pg2 to stir up the pot here because it creates “controversy” and keeps certain users coming back for future articles. More visits for the site tally. At least, from a webpage manager’s logic.—————vote

          Your living proof the Far Right would be the first to destroy the first amendment. You think that on a web site only the “Nazi Party Line” should be tolerated and any descent should not be allowed. Everyone should march lock step and give the stiff armed salute. That is what makes people like you and the Far Right so dangerous to the American people. Thank god you are in the minority. Ever notice how much your living god Herr Drumpf hates the free press.

          I would say its only the coward who cries and whines when he cannot tolerate the posts of people with opposing views and in the process gets verbally whipped when he presents his views and then he resents it and rather than stand up for his views runs and cries to daddy to make that bad man go away. Really grow up and act like an adult and respect the 1st Amendment as much as you do the 2nd Amendment, you cannot pick and choose nor can you try and destroy the 1st Amendment at every opportunity. One of the primary reason Trump will be defeated in 2020 is precisely because he too tried to destroy the 1 st Amendment at every opportunity.

        3. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          Vlad Tepes says:
          August 22, 2019 at 16:23

          quote——-blah blah blah fart snort blah blah——-quote

        4. avatar Pg2 says:

          Knute/guesty getting owned by a troll bot profile. Priceless.

        5. avatar Hank says:

          Yeah especially with anti vaccine retards like you around pg2. Take a long walk off a short peer.

        6. avatar Manse Jolly says:

          @Vlad
          “…..Everyone should march lock step and give the stiff armed salute…..”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bellamy_salute

          History….you should try it!

          And President Trump does not hate the press…He hates the azzh0le press! Big difference .

        7. avatar Someone says:

          @Vlad, the Impaler.
          I invite you to read the Bill of Rights. First amendment starts: “Congress shall make no law ….” It prohibits the government from abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press, amongst other things.
          Do you see any law made by Congress here? No, that’s right. This is a private site and as such the owner or editor decides who can speak here and what kind of speech is permitted here. BoR doesn’t apply. But tell us more, why should be only socialists allowed to post here?

      2. avatar burley says:

        Wow. You just can’t be a very nice person.
        Seriously, what’s the point of all the 2A talk if you get triggered when someone points out that the GOV wants to force you to do yet another thing that you should have a choice in?

        1. avatar Pg2 says:

          There’s a lot of phonies here. Have always suspected this board is loaded with profiles, real and auto, with the purpose of pushing left agendas while pretending to support the 2A. And to make gun owners in general look bad. Guarantee it.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “…this board is loaded with profiles, real and auto, with the purpose of pushing left agendas while pretending to support the 2A.”

          Is visiting here some sort of post-prison community service for you?

        3. avatar Knute(ken) says:

          Well you should know all about phonies, what with being the biggest one here and all…

        4. avatar Hank says:

          Maybe if pg2 wasn’t such a retard he wouldn’t get called a fag.

        5. avatar Pg2 says:

          Ask Hank continues to fantasize out loud about homoswxual behavior.

    2. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

      Calling TTAG head honcho Dan Zimmerman. Please come to the front lobby, Dan Zimmerman. It’s the same guy who keeps ignoring the “No Vaxx Conversations” sign posted on the front door of the building.

      Oh, he has a free hall pass given to him by management that allow him to ignore the rules without consequence? I didn’t realize that. Sorry for inconveniencing you, Mr. Zimmerman.

      Carry on, Mr. Pg2.

    3. avatar OBOB says:

      please don’t vax….and then you are gone and not an issue anymore….suicide by stupid

    4. avatar Dani in WA says:

      You know, I hold enough similar views, based on science and knowledge of human, other primate, and rodent immunology to be labelled as “anti-vaxx”, a cute, ad hominem argument at best, but I do not consider this forum as a place to present them. I understand passion for a topic but to continuously spam a nonreceptive audience is not going to encourage them to explore neither the medical nor legal aspects, even though government control is definitely within the Venn diagram overlap. All of us here have opinions and/or knowlege of a great many subjects; can you imagine what TTAG would become if all of these areas of concern were attempted to be drawn into discussion?

      1. avatar jwm says:

        Thank you. I know real anti vaxxers. PG2 is not one. He can only be a paid shill for big pharma trying to make the real anti vaxxers look bad. Only thing he can be. And since i pointed that out he’s now spraying every body that challenges him with the troll, bot, anti 2a label.

        He’s not fooling anyone. And apparently ttag will not enforce its own policy.

        1. avatar Knute(ken) says:

          They won’t enforce their own policy… on certain ones. They’ve certainly enforced it against myself, I haz a question, and many others.

        2. avatar Pg2 says:

          Flat out lie Jwm. I’ve never accused you, serge, or most of the other who’ve disagreed with me of being troll bots. You’re full of shit. I will always call out Vlad for being one because he is one.

      2. avatar The Crimson Pirate says:

        Yeah, I have pointed out to him before that he isn’t helping and he doesn’t seem to care. My conclusion is that he is just trying to split the generally pro freedom people along the vaccine lines.

      3. avatar Knute(ken) says:

        But, continuously spamming a nonreceptive audience DOES tend to make people run away from whatever idea the spammer is pushing, just because he’s so obnoxious. And, since this is a known human trait, is it possible that powerful people might hire spammers to oversell something so hard that people will reject the idea simply because they associate it with their horribly odious salesman? And might they then write all about it under the title: “Controlled Opposition”?

        1. avatar Dani in WA says:

          Driving them away from investigation this way on purpose is an interesting concept. I don’t doubt this angle would be attempted.

    5. avatar Geoff "Anti-Vaxxers need to get cancer and die" PR says:

      “…mandatory-vaccin…”

      Un-fucking believable.

      It’s ‘one-trick-pony’ pg2 at it yet again, spamming his shit that no one, including TTAG management, wants to hear.

      Pg2, did your mom drop you repeatedly on your head as a baby?

      Dance, ‘pg2’, I order you to hump my leg…

    6. avatar JackjackHathat says:

      There are 2 things that never get old:
      – jokes about anti-vaxxers
      -and anti-vaxxer’s children

  1. avatar Tarzan says:

    Some links after each example of another country having more mass shootings would be helpful to share with the anti gun harpies that constantly scream for more gun control.

    1. avatar billy-bob says:

      Pffft! Like deranged gun grabbers are going to let silly things like facts deter them from their mission.

  2. avatar JOHN B THAYER says:

    The 1st paragraph above really sums it all up in the words, ” . the times in which we live.”

    If you lived in a country where guns and ammunition were available almost anywhere, and even through the mail, no questions asked, and yet crimes involving firearms were rare, and then came back decades later and learned that while guns were by now much more highly regulated,, but that shootings were considered to be an everyday hazard, would you conclude that the guns had become the problem or that it was the people living in the country who were?

  3. avatar Knute(ken) says:

    DAN Z??? Where are you??
    The vaccine trolls are taking over a page again! Where is that delete hammer you’re so proud of? Why doesn’t the same rules apply to pg2, as to everybody else? What makes him so “special”?
    My hands are in the air! Please don’t delete me!

    1. avatar Pg2 says:

      GuesstyKnute complains about the sand in his panties……

      1. avatar David Bradford says:

        I have to say, I’m with Knute on this one. Your irreverent posts are about as welcome here at TTAG as yellow jackets at a backyard barbecue.

        1. avatar Pg2 says:

          It’s the same author, not a random article.

        2. avatar David Bradford says:

          Totally irrelevant “Who” wrote that article. It has no bearing on the article we are currently in discussion over. It adds absolutely nothing to the intellectual intercourse provided here regarding Mass Shootings. You and your incessant trolling is an impediment to intelligent dialog.

      2. avatar Scallywag says:

        And you complain about the vaccines in your ass.

        1. avatar Pg2 says:

          Lol, Geoff/guesty/Knute, that you?

        2. avatar Guesty McGuesterson says:

          Yes, Pg1.5, I now call myself Scallywag, in addition to any of the other voices in your head.

          Pick another one, Pg. I’m sure I’m that guy, also. Or the next one.

          Geez.

  4. avatar grumpster says:

    I watched True Grit last night which reminded me that televised public hanging would be an excellent idea for these mass shooters and sentence to be carried out within 30 days.

    IMHO biggest problem with criminals using firearms for murdering are:

    Gun free zones.

    Democrat failed policies in inner cities causing gang violence and lack of prosecuting these thugs. Just look no further than Crook County and Kim Foxx as an example of this.

    https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/crime-illinois-catch-release-justice-system/

    The democrats sure like to use their failed policies however as reason to disarm law abiding gun owners all across the USA.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      quote—————-Democrat failed policies in inner cities causing gang violence and lack of prosecuting these thugs. Just look no further than Crook County and Kim Foxx as an example of this.—————quote

      Republican Neanderthal mass incarnation of people in our prisons which now have put more people behind bars than Stalin did in his gulags prove that when you do not get at the root of the problems of drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill because of skin tight stingy Republicans failing to provide funds for any programs that help people resorting to mass incarceration has done absolutely nothing to not cure the problems of this nation but when did the Republicans ever tell the truth about anything.. History has proven it in the U.S.

      1. avatar Ur Retarded says:

        Retard.

      2. avatar jwm says:

        vlad. Provide a citation for that claim about stalin . I’ll bet that the reason, if true, is that he murdered more than he put in prison. But I doubt its true. You haven’t printed the truth in any of your comments yet.

        Except for the truth of your racist support of an ongoing genocide against blacks in America.

        1. avatar jwm says:

          vlad, looney left sites distort and misrepresent the facts. But you knew that already. In America you go to prison for committing a real crime. In stalins day you went to prison or an unmarked grave for simply questioning authority.

          And I noticed how you ignored the fact that of the folks that actually got to the gulag at least a million died.

          America is the most advanced and civilized nation on earth and we are not going to allow racist savages such as yourself to drag us down.

        2. avatar Southern Cross says:

          Do the gulag prisoner numbers include those who were executed instead of dying from overwork, disease, malnutrition, beatings from guards and favored prisoners (actual criminals had preferential treatment over political prisoners), and general neglect?

          Gulag labor was the backbone of the Soviet economy from the 1930s to late 50s.

        3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          jwm says:
          quote——————
          vlad, looney left sites distort and misrepresent the facts. But you knew that already————quote—————-

          Yeah Jw we all knew that after you screamed for references that when you got them you then would scream “don’t confuse me with the facts I already made up my mind”.

        4. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          to southern cross

          quote——————-Gulag labor was the backbone of the Soviet economy from the 1930s to late 50s.—————–quote

          Since like most Right Wingers you know as much about history as you do rocket science quite making an absolute fool out of yourself. During the war years the Soviet Population was almost 200 million people and during the 40 years of gulags and the 18 million people in them averaged 450,000 per year. As one can see your assumption is ludicrous. Not that slave labor was was not employed as it was but in no way was it providing the majority of people in the workforce.

      3. avatar billy-bob says:

        And how many trillions has been spent on the “War on Poverty” that did nothing but destroy the black family, and force generations to suckle at the government teat?

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          quote————————-And how many trillions has been spent on the “War on Poverty” that did nothing but destroy the black family, and force generations to suckle at the government teat?————-quote

          I really get tired of the propaganda about the “War on Poverty” It never got off the ground and no he did not spend trillions because the money was all spent on the Vietnam War. Most experts in the field of government, sociology and economics have stated that Pres. Johnson missed going down as one of the most famous and revered Presidents in U.S. History if he would have stayed out of that war and spent the billions instead on improving the U.S. as a country which would have included better infrastructure , better educational opportunities, more social safety nets like Europe has now had for decades and the retraining of people for better and higher paying jobs. His Great Society Program really never even got off the ground and with only one term in office was lucky it accomplished the good that it did do.

        2. avatar jwm says:

          Billy-Bob. Vlad is all about destroying the black family. He’s the modern margaret sanger. He knows a genocide is being waged on the black family through planned parenthood and he supports it.

      4. avatar Mad Max says:

        “Republican Neanderthal mass incarnation of people in our prisons which now have put more people behind bars than Stalin did in his gulags prove that when you do not get at the root of the problems of drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill because of skin tight stingy Republicans failing to provide funds for any programs that help people resorting to mass incarceration has done absolutely nothing to not cure the problems of this nation but when did the Republicans ever tell the truth about anything.. ”

        So explain to me exactly how the “root of the problems of drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill” is the cause of urban gang and other violence that doesn’t happen in other places with “drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill” like Appalachia?

        There are two reasons and you know what they are.

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          quote—————So explain to me exactly how the “root of the problems of drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill” is the cause of urban gang and other violence that doesn’t happen in other places with “drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill” like Appalachia?————-quote—————

          I do not have to explain anything about West Virginia because you just made an absolute fool out of yourself claiming they do not have society problems like the rest of the country (especially drug addiction)

        2. avatar Mad Max says:

          Vlad:

          Your reading comprehension is lacking.

          I stated that Appalachia *does* have drug addition, low paying jobs and no help for the mentally ill (and I’ll add very limited healthcare overall – less than in urban environments).

          But what they don’t have is gang bangers shooting up Appalachia. They do not have a homicide by firearms problem like the cities.

          One of the reasons is soft-on-crime Democrats run the cities and law-and-order Republicans run Appalachia.

          The other *might* be population density.

      5. avatar Someone says:

        You have it up side down, Vlad. It’s mass incarnation of Neanderthals in our prisons.

  5. avatar Cruzo1981 says:

    Excellent report!

  6. avatar IT Shabake says:

    they should consider some fucking strict law for carrying guns
    نیوراک

    1. avatar Someone says:

      Your site sucks.

    2. avatar Dani in WA says:

      That “strict law” should be that there may be no restrictions on neither the owning nor carrying of arms, “fire” or otherwise. Golly, it seems we have that already, in the U.S. of A. at least. Unfortunately, we have allowed the government to violate that law.

  7. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

    Brother this bullshitting article was really over the top. It may work with the Far Right but not if you happen to have a TV set let alone a computer along with a smattering of grey matter between your ears.

    During the last several years MSNBC reported Europe had only 2 mass shootings while so far this year alone (and the year is not yet over) we had 248. So they sure as hell are increasing and even a retarded Moron would know that never in the history of this country have we had a mass shooting almost every couple of weeks now and when you have two of them only hours apart that should tell even the mental midgets of the Far Right that if they leave home without their bullet proof vests they are just gambling with pure luck. The two latest mass shooting back to back shook the entire nation to its very core as the gun problem has now reached epic heights of pure insanity with maniacs buying arsenals of ammo and assault rifles and when even a gun saturated gun crazy state like Texas could not stop a maniac on a stroll through Walmart who was shooting at will. That should tell even the retarded the situation is totally out of control.

    We have more people on average gunned down in a single year than the casualties in the Middle East as well as Afghanistan. In 2017 we had just shy of 40,000 gun deaths and that comes within 18,000 of the Total deaths in the 10 year Vietnam war which was 58,000. Yes in Vietnam you were safer than today in a nation gone completely out of its mind. No they all were not mass shootings but it shows how out of control the gun problem is in the U.S.

    Yes the stats prove the combat zones of the world are now far safer than the streets and shopping centers of the U.S. were rivers of blood flow weekly, where our freeways are now shooting galleries used by drug Ganges and road rage maniacs who fire at will even in broad daylight and actually get away with it many times as well and do not forget the crazed snipers who prowl the freeways shooting innocent people on their way to work. Try taking out an unseen sniper with your Glock pop gun when he has you in his cross hairs while hundreds of yards away and is again totally unseen. Even cops using aerial surveillance have often proved a total failure.

    The gun problem in the U.S. has reached such epic insanity that Amnesty International last week warned all foreign people to stay the hell out of the U.S. and not vacation here as law and order has completely broken down with maniacs and drug gangs ruling the streets and gunning down people in droves weekly. No one is safe anywhere and at any time day or night You stand more of chance of living to old age in Down Town Beirut Lebanon during an Israeli, Arab shoot out compared to running the gauntlet of assault rifle incoming fire at your local Walmart. Shades of the “good old days” for all you Veterans out there. Lose a few pounds or you will not be able to “hit the dirt” as fast as you used to.

    1. avatar HoundDogDave says:

      Take your pills Vlad, your over due.

    2. avatar Karl says:

      Vlad – be present at the next one. Please.

    3. avatar jwm says:

      Wow, vlad. You’re totally losing control. Are you planning a shooting spree? Do you need an intervention?

      Such a complete break with reality is a dangerous thing, vlad. This is what comes from knowing nothing but self hatred in your life.

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Since Vlad is a confirmed leftist and possibly ANTIFA member if not sympathizer, has mentioned owning guns, has a severe case of “Trump derangement syndrome”, and wants to actively promote gun control.

        I can see him being inspired by Connor Betts and doing a spree killing to get what he wants.

      2. avatar B.D. says:

        That has been my take on his actions here as well. He is unhinged and needs supervision. Everything he says is a reflection of a crazy person with a manifesto about to go on a killing spree. The hatred gets more intense with more commenting, and he loses all control over his alter ego. Is sad really. The internet has sheltered him, and it will also break him.

    4. avatar Mike V says:

      Why are you obsessed with this bizarre notion that this country is extremely dangerous? Do you live here? How could you possibly think yourself safer in an active combat zone than here? Why do you insist on preposterous hyperbole?

      If it’s this bad surely you have the means to relocate to a land safer, more prosperous and altogether more in sync with your political persuasion and world view.

      1. avatar Southern Cross says:

        Such as China, where the firm hand of the party is guiding the country to a glorious future.

    5. avatar Dani in WA says:

      “…MSNBC reported…”

      First fault in the endless stream thereof in your nonsensical rambling.

      Not to mention the 248/251/whatever factually incorrect figure you quote.

      You claim that posters here debate with you but your statements are deftly, easily, and continuously shot down. (pun intended)

      1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

        quote——————–…MSNBC reported…”

        First fault in the endless stream thereof in your nonsensical rambling.

        Not to mention the 248/251/whatever factually incorrect figure you quote.

        You claim that posters here debate with you but your statements are deftly, easily, and continuously shot down. (pun intended)—————quote

        Now you are going ape shit over 248 dead or 251 dead. Brother you people on this forum get more bizarre with every post. Next you will be telling me none of these people are dead or should be counted as being a victim of a mass shooting because its all fake news. You have been Trumpatized.

        1. avatar B.D. says:

          The only bizarre one here is you. Some may be idiots, but you are completely insane. Nobody here is your fucking brother. We hate you. Put that in your manifesto, you crazy fuck.

        2. avatar Dani in WA says:

          “… 2 mass shootings while so far this year alone (and the year is not yet over) we had 248.”
          “Mass shootings” not “dead”, do you even read what you write?
          “Trumpatized”, LoL. Like I said, everything you say is nonsensical.
          You are blind to factual information which denies everything you claim.
          Interestingly enough, the value your presence here is to illustrate to the world that there are no valid arguments for civilian disarmament.

  8. avatar former water walker says:

    Way back when the “news” wasn’t lefttard and totally in the demtank(just coined that$)places like Chicago had HIGHER murder rates. 1970’s,80’s and 90’s was awash in the blood of brown folks. What changed? The space between their ears grew…

  9. avatar rt66paul says:

    Vlad;
    Vietnam had a much lower population during our conflict than the US does now (or then). So compare apples with apples and mention how many deaths in any year of the conflict and adjust it by population(not just Americans that died) and you will see that you are using flawed logic, like most of the anti gunners try.

    1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

      Maybe you can pooh, pooh the deaths of 40,000 Americans last year or even say 58,000 Vietnam War dead “was not so bad” compared to the population numbers back then. I encourage you to say that to the face of a Vietnam Vet who saw raw combat because you would suddenly be minus all your teeth.

      And if you said the same to people who lost love ones in today’s mass murdering sprees I dare say you would have to worry about more than losing your teeth.

      Statistics of give or take a few hundred dead out of thousands are really an obscene statement to make.

      1. avatar Pg2 says:

        Knute, maybe my comments do drive traffic. It’s wasn’t long ago Farago asked me if Inwas interested in writing articles for this page.

        1. avatar Guest McGuesterson says:

          Ha! Good one!

          Farago asked me, too. Sorry I can’t prove it, but neither can you, so….

        2. avatar Pg2 says:

          Still have the email Knute. Probably doesn’t occur to multi profile using trolls Like yourself that people who actually do care about real freedom silently read this page.

        3. avatar Knute(ken) says:

          Pg 3.11:
          Was that before, or after, you took your current job at Wide Open Media?

        4. avatar Mitch says:

          Yeah pg2 he was big on the pink pistols so that would make sense, you’d fit right in with all the semen you inhale.

        5. avatar Ing says:

          Pg2, I’ve been invited to contribute to TTAG, too — by RF and DZ both — and I actually *have* contributed. There are articles on this site to prove it. I’ve also been commenting on this site since 2011, when it was just a wee little blog.

          So now that I’ve established that my TTAG cred outweighs yours, Pg2, let’s get to the real point, which is this: YOU’RE A GIGANTIC JERKWAD. That’s the nicest way I can put it.

          Nobody replies to you except to try to stop the giant sucking noise that happens every time you post a comment. Or to mock you. Dan Z. has personally asked you to stop more than once. None of it has any effect, of course, because you’ve crossed the line from irritant to troll.

          Are you trolling because you enjoy being a dickhead, get off on the attention, or because you simply don’t know how to interact with real people? I don’t know.

          I do know that you really…need…to…stop. Please. For your own sake and ours.

          If you wanted to singlehandedly make this forum worse for everyone who comes across it, congratulations: You’ve done it. That’s an achievement of sorts, I guess…

          And with that, I’m done. We now return to my regularly scheduled program of ignoring everything you say.

        6. avatar David Bradford says:

          The way I see it, PG2 is using the anti vaxxer story to lay the groundwork to explain his mental deficiencies. I however, believe it is more likely genetic with an overabundance of Neanderthal DNA. In the event that it is vaccinations that cause his mental deficiencies it does not diminish the fact that he is mentally defective, and a drain on society.

      2. avatar Mike V says:

        Where did he claim that 58,000 wasn’t so bad?

        1. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          quote—————————Where did he claim that 58,000 wasn’t so bad?————-quote

          Please go back to school and learn a little in regards to reading comprehension. It includes “implication”.

        2. avatar Mike V says:

          And he implied that 58,000 wasn’t so bad where? If it’s so obvious you should have little trouble inserting it in your reply, so do it.

          Why be silly? You claimed the man said something he didn’t and when called on it you refuse to recognize what’s painfully obvious to everyone else.

        3. avatar Vlad Tepes says:

          Mike V says:
          quote————————–
          And he implied that 58,000 wasn’t so bad where? If it’s so obvious you should have little trouble inserting it in your reply, so do it.

          Why be silly? You claimed the man said something he didn’t and when called on it you refuse to recognize what’s painfully obvious to everyone else.—————-quote

          Nice try quoting me totally out of context as you conveniently ignored my last couple of lines which summed up how his entire argument was ridiculous. Here is a refresher for you

          Statistics of give or take a few hundred dead out of thousands are really an obscene statement to make.

        4. avatar Mike V says:

          Got it.

          You make up a claim about someone not caring about a number of dead people…then whine about being taken out of context.

          What is your context again?

        5. avatar B.D. says:

          That pretty much sums Vlad up in a nutshell. Everything he does is out of context, and reminiscent to the definition of “internet troll”. It’s hard to ignore them, but it’s harder to not call them out. Vlad recently has become unhinged. He probably has a manifesto written, but since he is a coward, would never admit to having laid the framework with his internet alter ego’s.

      3. avatar Dani in WA says:

        You are implying that we aged people who hold all the wisdom still have any teeth.
        As far as teeth go, metaphorically speaking, your arguments lack any.

  10. avatar Green Mtn. Boy says:

    If only Leftards were about truth and facts,however the agenda of Marxism holds the most importance to them.

    1. avatar Southern Cross says:

      I saw a documentary about Communism (in particular Communism in France). It was titled “The cult of the 20th Century”. Its followers have a zeal only rivaled by “the religion of peace” and that other loony sci-fi cult. The death toll would exceed that of most wars in the middle ages combined.

  11. avatar Sam I Am says:

    Awww, crap. Here we go with logic, reason and statistics again. How many more years will we depend on “proof” that private citizens possessing guns is an over all plus for society? If that approach hasn’t turned the tide yet, how much more of doing the same thing over and over will turn the tide?

    Perhaps a small illustration can personalize the futility of logic, reason and statistics…presented to people who don’t care.

    In salesmanship training (which I failed utterly), there was an anecdote about facing objections, and how to turn them into “opportunities to sell”. The point was that there are simply some people you cannot reach, and you should spend little time with them. It seems one neighbor needed to borrow a lawn mower to replace one in the shop. This neighbor went next door and asked to borrow the neighbor’s mower. The supplicant asked to borrow the mower for a day, and the neighbor said, “No”. When the supplicant asked if there was some specific reason (seeking an “opportunity” to persuade), the neighbor said, “I don’t have any ice cream.” The supplicant, astounded, asked, “What has that got to do with loaning your mower?” The neighbor replied, “Nothing, but when I don’t want to lend you my mower, one excuse is as good as another.”

    I trust readers can make the proper word substitutions, and apply the anecdote to attempts to persuade anti-gunners.

    1. avatar Knute(ken) says:

      🙂 I am SOO stealing that! The next saleman I have to talk to will get; “Nahhh… The flat earth isn’t properly lined up with the firmament….”. I can’t wait to see the look on their face after that one. And then to hear what they can think of to turn THAT into a persuasion technique.
      Back in the ’80s I had a roommate who could get rid of Jehovah Witnesses in 30 seconds flat. His secret? He opened the door with a big smile, and invited them in for coffee and a discussion about his god, Kahuna the Great. They couldn’t come in, as they had too many other doors to knock on.
      Then we had a big laugh. I asked him where he got that name from. He said he heard it in a movie somewhere….

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “🙂 I am SOO stealing that!”

        Fee free. It’s probably public domain by now.

      2. avatar Old Hawg says:

        Another way to cause the JW’s to flee is to tack a mezuzah to the door jamb. You don’t have to say a word. Just point to it. I saw one earnest young JW do a pretty fair impression of an NFL defensive back until the sidewalk made a 90 degree turn and he went backwards over the hedge.

    2. avatar Dani in WA says:

      That makes me think of the “logic” of teenage children, being, if presented that a reward will be given if certain conditions are met, a challenge, phrased as a question, if unsatisfied, obligates the reward regardless of the meeting of conditions.

      1. avatar Sam I Am says:

        “That makes me think of the “logic” of teenage children, being, if presented that a reward will be given if certain conditions are met, a challenge, phrased as a question, if unsatisfied, obligates the reward regardless of the meeting of conditions.”

        Sorry, Dani. I usually like your commentary, but I don’t have enough beer in the house to make sense of the comment above. You have my attention, could you take another run at it?

        1. avatar Dani in WA says:

          If you don’t have an excuse that the hopeful lawnmower borrower likes then somehow you are obligated to loan the lawnmower.
          I think it would take gin to make sense of how I phrased that originally.

        2. avatar Sam I Am says:

          “If you don’t have an excuse that the hopeful lawnmower borrower likes then somehow you are obligated to loan the lawnmower.”

          Ah…got it.

          Thanx.

  12. avatar Chuckers says:

    Bull shit!!!!!! Look at what constitues a mass shooting in these Ass Holes definition.

  13. avatar DCChristian says:

    I’m generally in agreement with this original article, but since we’re talking accuracy, when were the 2 articles by Professor James Fox published? From now, the year 1977 was not in “the last three decades”, since that was 42 years ago.

  14. avatar B.D. says:

    This comment section is more proof that this site needs a more regulated forum. Present the news, but regulate the comments. If they don’t like it, they can sign up for Disqus and take their rants to google news articles comment sections (presented by their respective left winge providers).

  15. avatar Alan says:

    If I remember my history, Disraeli noted the following re the numbers game. While figures might not lie, liars figure.

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