The late gun writer Col. Charles Askins served on the U.S. Border Patrol in the 1930s where he professed to have been in at least one gunfight every week.
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A contentious bill proposed in the Arizona legislature looks to expand current Castle Doctrine in the state by allowing landowners a broader level of authority to use lethal force in defense of their property against trespassers. But critics, including one Democratic Latina lawmaker, argue it would essentially declare an “open (hunting) season” on illegal migrants who continue to flood across the U.S. southern border creating havoc for many communities and people, especially those people who live near the border.

Authored by Republican Rep. Justin Heap, the proposed legislation, House Bill 2843, aims to empower homeowners and landowners with the right to shoot and kill trespassers under the claim of self-defense, extending beyond the current law that protects those within their homes.

The legislative effort is primarily aimed at helping ranchers and farmers along the U.S.-Mexico border, who must continually deal with those who illegally cross into the country, many simply looking for a better life, but others who commit crimes, are smuggling drugs and carrying firearms. Rep. Heap told news outlets the bill seeks to close a loophole in state laws that have left property owners vulnerable to trespassers who could potentially pose a threat to their safety and livelihood.

There are no shortage of stories and first-hand accounts from people from Texas to California of groups of people, damaging fences, steeling property and breaking into homes. One Texas resident recounted how his wife came home to find their house had been broken into. Investigating further while waiting for police to arrive, she looked out her kitchen window to see a man, an illegal immigrant, swimming in their pool, the valuables he had taken stacked up next to the pool.

Hunters with outfitters along the border are warned to stay hidden if they see people coming through the barren land as a person never knows who poses a danger and who doesn’t. Violent, cartel drug runners use these same porous routes to enter the states as well.

In fact, the bill’s introduction comes in the aftermath of a high-profile case involving 73-year-old Arizona rancher George Alan Kelly, who is facing second-degree murder charges following the shooting death of Gabriel Cuen-Buitimea on his property. Cuen-Buitimea, who had illegally entered the U.S., was unarmed when he was killed. Kelly, asserting his actions were in self-defense, claimed he had only fired warning shots at a group of migrants he believed to be armed. The incident has only fueled an already fiery debate over property rights, self-defense and the treatment of migrants illegally entering the U.S.

Phoenix-area Democrat Rep. Analise Ortiz and the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee have vehemently opposed the bill, labeling it inhumane and arguing it could lead to “open season on migrants” escalating the potential for extrajudicial killings.

“It’s terrifying. It would give people free rein to execute somebody and it would broaden extrajudicial killings,” Ortiz told NBC News. “This is part of a broader anti-immigrant movement that we’ve seen coming from the right, which aims to dehumanize and vilify people who are coming to this country seeking asylum.”

Critics of the bill fear the move could create an environment reminiscent of legends from the late famed gun writer Col. Charles Askins, who served in WWII and served on the border patrol along the southern border for as much as a decade in the 1930s. Askins professed to have been in a gunfight at least once a week and was rumored to have tested new loads and firearms in those gunfights and then wrote about their performance in the magazines he wrote for. Askin’s autobiography was even titled “Unrepentant Sinner.”

While Democrats and others have been quick to denounce the bill, the movement is also a backlash to progressive polices under the Biden Administration that has allowed record numbers of migrants to cross into the U.S. through the southern border with no accountability. Taxpayers, as a result, have been forced to provide for their housing, food and other financial needs, a situation that has led to mounting tension, even among people typically supportive of the Democratic Party. Countless communities are suffering the consequences of crimes committed by some of these illegals who have nothing and are desperate or come from violent backgrounds themselves.

“The Tucson, Arizona, Customs and Border Patrol sector has seen a 149.6% jump in migrant encounters, which includes people crossing legally and those quickly expelled, this January over January 2023, according to CBP statistics,” NBC News reports.

Sociologists and pundits have observed that proposed laws that seek to expand self-defense and property rights are inevitable to counteract soft policies on illegal immigration and the creation of a social order in which people who are legally in this country must obey laws, but those who are not citizens can flaunt them. High profile cases of crimes by people in this country illegally fill headlines each week including the brutal murder of Georgia nursing student Laken Riley by an illegal, the attack of New York City police officers by a gang of illegals who were then released laughing without bail, the arrest of three illegals from Guatemala for allegedly kidnapping a woman from a Florida park and raping her before she managed to escape, the arrest of an illegal immigrant in Illinois, just two weeks in the country, who stabbed to death and attempted to decapitate his wifein front of their two children, the arrest of an illegal from Mexico who had already been deported 8 times and arrested another 11 times and has been charged in the murder of an Ohio man, and there are others. Such headlines exacerbate the issue.

Despite the controversies and divided views, the bill has progressed along party lines in the state House, with a 31-28 vote favoring its advancement. Its future in the Republican-controlled state Senate appears promising, though Democratic Governor Katie Hobbs is expected to veto the measure, aligning with her stance against a similar bill that sought to empower state police to arrest individuals entering the country illegally.

At stake, proponents argue the bill reinforces the fundamental right of property owners to protect their land and safety, while opponents fear it marks a dangerous escalation in anti-immigrant sentiment and potentially unlawful and unethical use of force.

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69 COMMENTS

  1. Can you use deadly force to protect what what you own or not?

    If not then all you’re doing is making some kind of moral argument about the wrong of stealing.
    But not backing it up with a way to stop it.

    You should be able to kill anyone when they violate your private property. It should be left up to the property owner whether or not to use deadly force.

    Private property should be treated just like government property.

    If you steal government property, they’ll kill you. In order to stop you from taking it.

    Government agents who kill to protect private property are not prosecuted. And proper owners should also not be prosecuted.
    When they kill the protect their private property.

    And people wonder how it is? That squatters are able to take away private property without a fight.

    • I wouldn’t use the phrase “kill to protect private property.” I think it is better to say “use force to protect private property.” If the trespasser happens to die, so be it, but brandishing a firearm can go a long way towards enforcing property rights.

      • This is why I like fixed bayonets so much. If the criminals are scared off. Without firing a shot. Then, “you have used your gun.”
        To protect your private property.

        Yes, it is harsh using the word “killing.”

        But every criminal needs to know that can happen to them.

      • “brandishing”
        For a long time I never understood why so many people??? Thought brandishing should be against the law.
        If scaring away a criminal without shooting them is successful, then why would you be against that??

        Unless you support criminals. And you really don’t believe people should be using weapons, for self-defense of any type at all.

        You’re quite comfortable with criminals stealing. And killing if they feel like killing their victims.

        But heaven forbid that you use brandishing to scare off an attack.

      • I would use the phrase “do whatever it takes to guarantee none of your rights are violated”. The only limitation might be the possibility of harm to innocent bystanders. If the only factor in the balance against shooting is the life of the perpetrator (a net negative, for the owner and the civilization alike) there should be no possibility of legal consequences. Doubly so if the perpetrator does not legally exist here.

  3. “The legislative effort is primarily aimed at helping ranchers and farmers along the U.S.-Mexico border, who must continually deal with those who illegally cross into the country, many simply looking for a better life, but others who commit crimes, are smuggling drugs and carrying firearms.”

    What a simp. Crossing the border illegally is a crime, no matter if they are “looking for a better life” or not. What would you do to an unwelcome stranger crossing your threshold??

    • Replacement theory in action. It works for the CCP in Tibet, Western China, Eastern Russia, and now in Hong Kong. Replace the locals with a more compliant population.

  6. This “controversy” is absurd. There’s a link in the article. READ the bill. It’s ONE PAGE, and makes TRIVIAL changes to current law.

    https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/56leg/2R/bills/HB2843H.pdf

    Here’s the only paragraph of the bill with meaningful changes. The [bracketed] words are deleted from the old law, while the UPPER CASE words are added to make the new law.

    “C. [In] FOR THE PURPOSES OF this section, “premises” means any real property [and] OR any structure, movable or immovable, permanent or temporary, adapted for [both] EITHER human residence [and] OR lodging whether occupied or not.”

    Anyone who says that is suddenly a new “license to kill trespassers” is just LYING to you.

  7. “ ‘It’s terrifying. It would give people free rein to execute somebody and it would broaden extrajudicial killings,’ Ortiz told NBC News.”

    ya know what’s terrifying? that you moron democrats are trying to flood the country with illegal immigrants so you can change the voting demographic to remain in power, and that your democrat policies have created the situation of placing the whole country in mortal danger purposely to do that.

  8. It’s almost like this entire thing is a trolling operation looking to create a series of crises inside the US which can then be taken advantage of.

    And because Conservatives’ messaging sucks more than a trash pump, they’ll get massed on by the Left who are waiting to pounce on this.

    Or they’ll pass it along party lines, get massed on in the PR department and then have their bills turned around on them at light speed and wonder how they ended up losing.

    There should be an unspoken rule Right of center that if you talk without having studied Alinsky and some other key Lefty philosophers, you get beaten until you lose a specified number of teeth commensurate with the gravity of your ignorant infraction.

    Shooting people for simple trespass? tHaT CaN’T pOsSiBlY gO wRoNG! Da LeFt WuLd NevER WeAponIzE dAt!

    • “And because Conservatives’ messaging sucks more than a trash pump, they’ll get massed on by the Left who are waiting to pounce on this.”

      Eh, they are increasingly being outright ignored. Still should keep a close eye on them, but their entire ‘The sky is falling’ spiel is going flat…

      • You will find, my friend, that PR has many tentacles.

        Do you think that those pharma marketing folks walking into doctors offices and talking about how oxy was non-addictive was somehow not PR? Or do you thin all PR is in advertising available to the public?

        Really, all they gotta do is scare people real good. I’m old enough to remember PR so strong that people drove to a parking lot and waited hours in line to get injected with what was essentially, to them, mystery juice. By a stranger.

        You live in a country that currently, right now, openly holds political prisoners. That should inform your thinking to some level.

        As their grip weakens they will become more dangerous. Do you really think a D governor won’t abuse a law like this? Maybe that next Conservative rally someone steps on the wrong piece of public property and, well, it’s nice and legal after that, eh?

        And when the wails and lamentations start, they’ll simply remind you that you wanted this. Because that is exactly how, historically, you build a police state.

        • “You live in a country that currently, right now, openly holds political prisoners.“

          That is quite the assertion, would you be kind enough to provide some sort of source or citation for your claim?

          Specifically, who is being held on “political” grounds?

        • Okay dumbass, he’s talking about the invited sightseers, oops, I mean the Capital Invasion MAGAs that a bazillion man-hours of investigative time was wasted on to arrest the manufactured felons, whom yes, have been held while awaiting hearings. And there is a lot of jailspace available, since NO ONE was ever charged with a crime in the “Mostly Peaceful Demonstrations” following the death of a certain black repeat felon fentanyl user. And yes, cities were burned down asshat, I can still drive through the carnage seven miles away.
          And aren’t you just cute with your softball comment a little further down?… you certainly have a talent for dramatic flair, don’t you – minimize and maximize at will.

        • “the invited sightseers, oops“

          So who specifically are you claiming is a political prisoner? All I’m hearing from you is vague, nonspecific claims without substance.

          “manufactured felons, whom yes, have been held while awaiting hearings“

          Again, who? What charges?

          “NO ONE was ever charged with a crime in the “Mostly Peaceful Demonstrations”

          “NO ONE”? Honestly, where do you guys get this stuff?

          “An Associated Press tally found more than 10,000 protesters were arrested in just the first 10 days after Floyd’s death on May 25. Amid the ongoing protests, many of those jailed, however briefly, are coming to terms with the repercussions of their decisions to take part in a major moment in history.“

          The article in Time magazine has specific names, ages, locations and charges.

          If your claims about January 6 had any merit, you would also include specific names, ages and charges.

          https://time.com/5880229/arrests-black-lives-matter-protests-impact/#:~:text=An Associated Press tally found,a major moment in history.

          “And aren’t you just cute“

          Thank you, but I don’t roll that way. You might check with some of the others on this forum, by the frequency with which they mention same sex activities I’m sure they might have an interest.

        • Miner, maybe you can post something more recent than Aug. of 2000with actual info.. perhaps like the Newsweek article of Sep.12, 2023 that actually DOES list names and actual sentences of 623 of 1146 people charged (that’s a lot different than “arrested” by the way)… very few arrests of protesters resulted in charges being filed – but you already knew that. And sorry pal, you’re definitely not my type, but I’m sure your sponsors could pay someone to cuddle with you.

        • “Miner, maybe you can post something more recent than Aug. of 2000“

          Nope, the article I posted is from 2020:
          “BY MELISSA CHAN
          AUGUST 19, 2020 10:15 AM EDT“

          And of course you can’t substantiate your claims of political prisoners being held unconstitutionally.

          See, that’s the deal with the so-called ‘Big Steal’, you all know you are lying.
          Y’all will blather on with your talking points and claims, but just like Donald Trump‘s attorney Rudy Giuliani said, “we have lots of theories we just don’t have any evidence”.
          All you wanna be insurrectionists make these claims as the most tenuous of justification for your unlawful attempted coup.
          You’ll never admit it, but all you folks know it’s just like Donald Trump‘s Attorney General of the United States William Barr said, “it’s all bullshit”.

          And now y’all talk about “a second amendment solution” and mumble “Civil War 2.0”.

          One would do well to remember that, just like the conservatives, many liberals own guns. We just don’t wanna sleep with them.

        • Gee, I read both articles that were posted. So Miner Liar, where are the 10,000 names and charges and sentences listed out in YOUR fluff piece. Fuck, if i could buy you for what you’re worth and sell you for what you think you’re worth I’d never have to work again. But if i did live in the dream world there’d always be a chance of running into you , so on 2nd thought, I’ll just stay here in the real world.

        • Still not one name of a ‘political prisoner’ held unconstitutionally.

          “Over 300 People Facing Federal Charges For Crimes Committed During Nationwide Demonstrations

          Thursday, September 24, 2020
          Shareright caret
          For Immediate Release
          Office of Public Affairs
          The Department of Justice announced today that more than 300 individuals in 29 states and Washington, D.C., have been charged for crimes committed adjacent to or under the guise of peaceful demonstrations since the end of May.

          To date, of the 94 U.S. Attorneys’ Offices (USAOs), more than 40 USAOs have filed federal charges alleging crimes ranging from attempted murder, assaulting a law enforcement officer, arson, burglary of a federally-licensed firearms dealer, damaging federal property, malicious destruction of property using fire or explosives, felon in possession of a firearm and ammunition, unlawful possession of a destructive device, inciting a riot, felony civil disorder, and others. Violent opportunists have exploited these demonstrations in various ways.

          Approximately 80 individuals have been charged with offenses relating to arson and explosives. Approximately 15 individuals have been charged with damaging federal property. In some instances, these individuals are alleged to have set fires to local businesses as well as city and federal property, which will regrettably incur millions of taxpayer dollars to repair damages to the Portland Courthouse, Nashville Courthouse, Minneapolis Police Third Precinct, Seattle Police East Precinct, and local high school in Minnesota; and, to replace police cruisers in South Carolina, Washington, Rhode Island, Georgia, Utah, and other states.“

          The January 6th insurrection was a blatant, coordinated attempt by Trump co-conspirators and supporters to halt the vote verification process presided over by the Vice-President. In effect, the howling mob was demanding a halt to the Constitutionally mandated certification process and for the illegal installation of Trump as President. A riotous mob wasn’t randomly stealing TV sets here; instead, several hundred of Trump’s violent cult members were determined to steal American democracy itself.

  9. I read Askins when I was an adolescent. Jordan, too. Along with their peers. Used to haunt the news stand at the local convenience store around the first of the month. Those old guys knew a few things and there is nothing new under the sun. Except new men. Doing the same thing.

  10. “You should be able to kill anyone when they violate your private property. It should be left up to the property owner whether or not to use deadly force.”

    I bet the kids don’t go into your yard to get their softball more than once.

  11. The Second Amendment was always the remedy to the border invasion.. People need to realize that it is the “standing” militias’ duty to protect this country, from foreign invaders..

    • I got a bit of an invasion. Jose(real name) is friendly but appears to have a pregnant pit bull in the back yard. I bought a lawnmower from him. Illegal alien? Dunno but the wife & I home carry. This is Cook county but my burb is fairly ok. Not so much north & northeast🙄

      • I see illegals every day, getting out of Ubers with Mexican drivers that picked them up at the border and are dropping them off at gas stations along the I-10. You can tell who they are: they’re wearing the hunting camo jackets and backpacks. Cartel members on this side of the border pick them up in vans and transport them all over the country. I see large groups of invaders being packed into white vans driven by brown-skinned criminals. The Border Five-oh knows it’s happening, and in fact, sometimes drops off their charges at the same gas stations. There HAS to be Border Patrol agents on the take.

        My wife and I home carry, plus we have a Winchester 12 gauge and a Colt M4 semi-auto handy in the house for any surprise visitors from criminal aliens. We do not drive alone, and securely lock the iron grates adorning our doors and windows when we leave. All of my neighbors in this “rural residential” part of the state are similarly armed.

        We are being invaded and replaced by the elites in the Uniparty.

        • Cartel members on this side of the border pick them up in vans”

          There’s some now, get ‘em boys!

          “MICHIGAN GOP LAWMAKER FALSELY CLAIMS THAT BUSES CARRYING MARCH MADNESS TEAMS ARE ‘ILLEGAL INVADERS’
          Maddock has declined to acknowledge that the buses were transporting basketball players.
          By JOEY CAPPELLETTI
          Friday, March 29, 2024

          Michigan state lawmaker involved in former President Donald Trump’s election denials is being widely criticized after the Republican made false claims that buses carrying college athletes to Detroit for March Madness were shuttling illegal migrant “invaders” into the city.

          State House Rep. Matt Maddock made the claim Wednesday night in a social media post accompanied by photos of three buses near an Allegiant plane at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. Maddock wrote that the buses “just loaded up with illegal invaders.”

          The fear mongering is just so entertaining, normal folks will be laughing at conservative Republicans for decades.

        • “She wanted to know if the cops arrested your wife?“

          Tell her no, me and her are going to have to keep our thing on the DL.
          Don’t worry, the part I’m using doesn’t seem to have been used before.

    • I like your thinking but imagine how fast the feds would act to arrest that militia if that were to be the case. *See the other article on ttag now about the Baft unnecessarily raiding the fellas home

  14. So the act of trespassing allows a landowner to kill? If the landowner isn’t being threatened with violence, how is this legally justified?

    This has nothing to do with the 2nd Amendment and everything to do with using guns for extrajudicial, political anger

  15. Our giverment needs to find out who these illegal immigrants are and then sue the country that they’ve come from, yeah that’s the ticket, and when they refuse to pay sue them again.
    .
    How to stop a large percentage of illegal immigrants. .giv just needs to bust the companies or individuals who hire them to work.
    $1million a head. All of a sudden a green card/ work visa wouldn’t be worth so much.
    Would you hire someone who might cost you a million dollars?
    “I have a gring card.”
    Sorry baby wrong color.
    ” Who me or my card.”
    You.

    • “just needs to bust the companies or individuals who hire them to work“

      OK, but you do realize the Republican politicians’ owners oppose any actual consequences for their big donors who employ illegal aliens:

      “In Texas, lawmakers don’t mess with employers of undocumented workers

      For all their condemnations of illegal immigration, Texas lawmakers — Republican and Democratic — have shown little interest in cracking down on businesses that employ undocumented workers.

      BY JAY ROOT
      DEC. 14, 2016
      12 AM CENTRAL

      Few Texas politicians have harnessed anger over illegal immigration like Republican Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick, who rose from talk radio host to powerful state leader largely on the strength of his incessant border security screeds.

      Though he once embraced a foreign guest worker program himself, Patrick got elected lieutenant governor in 2014 in part by decrying what he called an “invasion” of disease-carrying immigrants and tying his GOP foes to policies that supposedly draw them here. He went on to become the top Texas cheerleader for immigration hardliner Donald Trump’s presidential bid.

      But there’s one arena in the battles over illegal immigration that Patrick hasn’t yet entered as lieutenant governor: the private workplace.

      Despite promising during the 2014 race to crack down on Texas employers who hire undocumented workers, it was status quo last session in the state Senate that Patrick oversees. And illegal hiring practices in the Texas workplace, which the state has authority to police, have largely gone missing from his public outrage over the porous border and illegal immigration.”

      • Well sure, my comment was in sarcasm.
        Any thinking person can see the reason why the immigrants are hired.
        And BTW they are not all that “hard working ” as I have went shoulder to shoulder with many of the hard working immigrants. They played out before I did.
        Cheap labor, accept jobs that a US citizen doesn’t want to do, blah blah blah, because .giv has made it to for a US citizen easy to draw a check sitting on a couch playing vidja games.

        • “They played out before I did“

          Yes, sadly when one has walked miles through multiple countries, swam the river and then walked more, then living 12 to a room living on less than minimum wage, one tends to be malnourished and not quite have the same stamina as a well-fed American citizen. And because they’re so poor, healthcare doesn’t really exist for them, just ER visits to stop the bleeding or set the broken bones, no preventative care or treatment for routine illnesses that cut productivity.

          I guess that’s why that fella Jesus was trying to look out for those refugees

  16. From someplace called “The Truth About Guns”

    6 Ways Good Guys Screw Up in Self-Defense Situations
    …
    #3. Beware the ‘My home is my castle’ fallacy

    Just because someone is on your property doesn’t give you the right to brandish your gun or make threats with it. In fact, confronting trespassers can escalate a situation quickly. Remember the best way to win a gun battle . . .

    #4. Avoid defending property

    In fact, a good rule of thumb is this: don’t do it. Yes, Illinois, Texas, and some other states allow for the use of deadly force to prevent a burglary or forcible felony.

    #5. Keep the proper mindset

    Avoid trouble. Stay out of stupid situations with stupid people at stupid times. Use your situational awareness, avoidance and de-escalation skills. At the same time if evil is forced upon you, never give up in a fight.

  17. AZ had a choice; Lefty squirrel bucket Hobbs or Trump worshipper Lake. I believe Lake had a chance but as so many others, was too rabid for her love of DJT and hate for killin babies. I applaud KL for her staunch convictions but feel they cost her the election. I’m not sure KH being secretary of state and the overseer of the elections made for a fair contest (my ballot was one of many that “wouldn’t scan” so there’s that) So now here we are. A state government that’s not going to get anything meaningful accomplished. Is it going to crumble to the point of citizen borderr enforcement? God help us.

    • “her love of DJT and hate for killin babies“

      Haven’t you heard, Kari Lake has flip-flopped on the abortion issues:

      “Kari Lake Wants You To Forget She Supported Arizona’s Near-Total Abortion Ban
      The Republican Senate candidate may find it tough to distance herself from her past statements in favor of the 1864 law.
      By Daniel Marans and Liz Skalka
      Apr 9, 2024, 06:11 PM EDT

      “I oppose today’s ruling, and I am calling on [Arizona Gov.] Katie Hobbs and the State Legislature to come up with an immediate common sense solution that Arizonans can support.”

  18. open season on illegals
    in one form or the other
    is on its way anyway
    its just a matter of time
    were past the point of no return now
    and not just at the border

    • “open season on illegals“

      You mean open employment by Republican businesses?

      “Tim Michels’ troubles expose Republican hypocrisy on immigration
      RUTH CONNIFF
      JULY 21, 2022 6:30 AM

      “But the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel published documents showing that when Michels was president of the board of the Wisconsin Transportation Builders Association during the 2007-2008 legislative session, the group lobbied against a bill that would have prevented companies that hire undocumented workers from receiving government contracts, tax breaks or loans.“

  19. Yes, our Dim Gov. will veto it. More citizens will suffer or die. Illegals are coached and quickly learn the leniency of our legal system. Multiple groups are are their side but rarely have to deal with the consequences.

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