John Kasich red flag stand your ground law veto override
courtesy and AP/Morry Gash
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Ohio Governor John Kasich — who wants everyone to know that he’s “a Second Amendment guy”vetoed a gun owners rights bill that reached his desk earlier this month. The bill had been overwhelmingly passed in both the house and senate and speculation at the time was that there were enough votes in both houses to override the postman’s son’s veto.

That speculation proved to be accurate. As reports:

A bill broadening gun-owner rights has become law in Ohio, after the Republican-led state Legislature overrode GOP Gov. John Kasich’s veto.

The Senate voted 21-11 on Thursday to reject Kasich’s decision to strike down the bill. That followed a House override earlier in the day.

At the time, Kasich said signing the stand your ground law “would be detrimental to the safety of all of our citizens.” In reality, he was upset that the legislature refused to pass a gun violence restraining order bill that he could sign.

The bill shifts the burden of proof from lawful gun owners who use firearms for self defense to prosecutors. The bill also preempts local gun control laws in the state.

Kasich opposed language shifting the burden of proof in self-defense cases from defendants to prosecutors. He also criticized lawmakers for refusing to debate a “red flag” law allowing gun rights to be temporarily stripped from people who show warning signs of violence.

This will probably ruin the governor’s whole week. Lawful gun owners in Ohio, however, are no doubt celebrating the victory.



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      • Thank God. I hope he is relegated to the dust bin of American political history. I truly can’t stand that guy.

        • It’s “rumored” we’ll see him in the POTUS race in 2020. Although he’s a (clear throat) Republican, he’s considering a run as an independent. However we all know how well an independent fairs in a U.S. presidential race, so could he actually be thinking of leaving the Republican party to join the Democrats? He’s certainly been acting like one since he lost the Republican POTUS primary in 2016.

        • CinciJim No Kasich has been acting like a dem the last 6 years. He wasn’t bad his first 2 years but after that he’s been very liberal.

    • Good deal another Liberal Democrat shot down trying to make laws against the Honest people. And I know he is registered as Republican but is record is Democrat , why else do you think he was on the bottom of people running for President.

  1. And to think, just a couple of years ago, he wanted to be your president. Thank God he never got out of Ohio, but hopefully Ohio will get him out of office.

  2. Sound like Ohio finally got their heads out their ass and got their act together. Like Obama use to say (It’s the right thing to do) now just punt kasick

  3. It’s a shame when something so apparent needs to be made law. That being said good on Ohio.

  4. The major impact of the law isn’t stand your ground,. but shifting the burden of proof in cases where self-defense is raised. According to the Buckeye Firearms Association, Ohio was the one and only state that required the defendant to prove self-defense by a preponderance of the evidence, while all of the 49 others required the prosecutor to disprove self-defense by proof beyond a reasonable doubt.

    • Yep. This is pretty significant for law-abiding citizens in Ohio. The burden of proof is once again where it belongs: on the state.

    • This bill (HB228) originally included “stand your ground” language, but it was removed by legislators in an attempt to appease Kasich. They knew he would not sign it into law with language that negates our “duty to retreat” laws. (This tells me Kasich probably never read the final draft that hit his desk.)

      I wasn’t happy the language was removed, but I’ll take any “win”.

      • The loss of stand your ground is disappointing but that might have been necessary to get enough votes for an override. Stand your ground is nice to have but shifting the burden of proof to the prosecution will affect far more self defense cases.

  5. Good. Looks like the legislature found some “important restrictions” on Kasick. Now punt this jackoff.

  6. Good news. Yes, as an Ohioan, I can confirm Kasich is a dweeb. He is leaving office in January due to term limits. His replacement is Mike DeWine…not a big improvement, but an improvement nonetheless.

    • Don’t count your chickens before they hatch! DeWine is also wishy-washy on Second Amendment! He says one thing to get votes but in private has different ideas.

      • Like just about every other politician out there. They count on their constituents having short memories.

  7. I believe SYG was removed from the bill a month or two ago, meaning that is NOT what was passed. Here is what passed (still pretty good):

    Shifts the burden of proof back to the prosecutor so that you are innocent until proven guilty. Ohio is the only state in the U.S. that makes gun owners guilty until proven innocent in matters of self defense.

    Strengthens “preemption” provisions in Ohio law that prevent local governments from passing their own gun laws.

    Aligns the definition of “shotgun” to mirror Federal law to end the confusion about the Mossberg Shockwave and similar firearms that are currently legal under federal law but illegal under Ohio state law.

    Eliminates the requirement to post no-gun signs in locations which have authorized the carrying of firearms.

    Puts teeth into the law so that authorities can prosecute criminals who make “straw” purchases for felons.

    • Yeah, the Buckeye firearms association opted to remove the SYG part at the last minute before the bill went to vote.

  8. Stand Your Ground laws, just like Castle Doctrine laws which extend SYG to your home, are really only incidentally firearms laws. They’re really about due process.
    They place the burden of proof on the prosecutor and remove onerous responsibilities to act from the victim. If you’re the victim, then all you have to prove is that you acted in self defense, a legal standard that SYG does not change.

    It frees victims from endless second guessing about shoulda coulda woulda by prosecutors, juries, and judges who were not there when your life was in danger. This shouldn’t even be controversial. That such laws are even still needed to be passed to eliminate the outrageous “duty to retreat” standard is the shamefulness here.

    Never mind Kasich’s phony “Second Amendment guy” pose. He isn’t a basic human rights and freedom guy. And he’s considering another run at the White House? No Republican has ever won the White House while losing Ohio. This guy is grossly out of step. Just retire and quit making an ass of yourself, Kasich.

  9. This is why you don’t support RINOs under the guise that “Democrats are worse”. Democrats don’t corrupt from within like Kasich, who got a personal letter from Bill Clinton thanking him for selling out the Second Amendment.

    • Repeat over and over: DEMOCRATS ARE WORSE. Now grow up. P.S. With friends like you who needs enemies?

  10. “If you think I’m going to sign a bill that gives more power to the gun folks, are you kidding me?” Kasich told reporters. “That’s a moral issue: gun violence.”

    Kasich exemplifies the sheer arrogance of the professional political class. He thinks he’s been anointed to “guide” us to live our lives according to his ideas. If we resist being “guided” he’ll use the overwhelming force of government to force us to comply. Kasich is a lot like Comey in that he sees himself as morally superior to the rest of us.

    It’s scary that people like this have so much power.

    • And if Trump had withdrawn JK would of been the nominee. I liked him and initially supported him until I saw more of him. I read about his positions and he seemed a bit too pliable.

      • Kasich ran a distant third behind Trump and Cruz, and mainly acted as a spoiler, distracting from the Trump opposition. If Trump drops out, or doesn’t run, then it’s probably a race between Cruz and Rubio, and Kasich is again an annoying afterthought.

  11. While it is an incomplete victory it is still very important, very good news of those in Ohio. What is missing is what was taken out while still trying to get the Governor to sign it, which was language clearing stating there is no duty to flee when attacked. Perhaps that will come again later, it should be law in all states. Shouldn’t have to be, should be obvious, should be common sense. Sadly that is not the world we live in.

    Kasich claims he vetoed the bill over the lack of a Red Flag law. While that’s not a good enough reason to veto, I’ll go ahead and say something very unpopular here: We need such laws. We should be the side writing them, especially the due process wording, the protections against wrongful actions by vengeful ex-spouses and the like. There are too many cases in the news of violent people or crazies known about before hand, for whom no means existed to disarm them. These people and the blood they spill hurt all of us, fuels the anti-gun masses. We should be writing these laws, not the liberals and the anti-gunners who would take them too far and not give a damn for due process of law or protections and compensations for the wrongly accused.

    Not that Kasich was thinking of any of that.

    • From someone living in a state with most of that, dicks. As in go eat a bag of them. There is no way to protect rights and protections given away. Baker act is more than enough to cover the majority of red flag issues and the ones that slip through are not worth our liberty. Especially not when a high school chemistry book is orders of magnitude more dangerous in the hands of an average intelligence adult and a knife/club are more than lethal enough for the D students.

      • Don’t know that they can be, doubt any on our side will try. Certainly the three big pro-gun groups can afford the lawyers and lobbyists to write legislation, but I’m not deluding myself that they’d try to work the problem instead of just keep knocking their heads against the wall.

        Eventually we will lose our gun rights. Oh, we make some advances, maybe some more yet to come. But voter demographics change over time and we are doing nothing about the violence that fuels the anti-gun side. We fight them on their terms, the fights they pick using the tools they use. Eventually, this has to fail. I liken it to fighting an insurgency where the only tactics we use are those the insurgents pick for us to use.

        Florida’s “Baker Act” and other short-term psychiatric commitment laws elsewhere routinely fail. Failed for Mrs. Lanza and she was the first to die because of it.

        I’m old enough I do not think I’ll still be around for the end of gun rights. I think it is more likely in my kid’s lifetime. Those kids who were brought up to know better will blame us for the loss, because we never learned or adapted or faced the root causes that led to us being targeted for what other people do.

        • There called socialist, and they’re teaching our kids in schools that the guns and gun owners are bad. I just read that Iowa, I believe, is going to start teaching kids gun responsibility again. That is how we’ll kept the 2nd, or it’ll be the bloody side of this civil war that’s going on now?

    • “There are too many cases in the news of violent people or crazies known about before hand, for whom no means existed to disarm them.”

      And just who might these “violent people” or “crazies” be in your opinion? We live in a society where you have to have actually committed a crime before you can fall afoul of legal restrictions. In our country, people can be as weird and marginal as they want to be so long as they don’t actually violate a law. Making weirdness and and being marginal a crime automatically creates a bureaucratic process predicated on the abuse of people’s rights. Deciding that upending those constitutionally guaranteed freedoms in order to purchase a little safety is always a bad bargain but that’s exactly what “red flag: laws are designed to do.

      Ridding society of “violent people” or “crazies” means that people like you, me, or anybody posting on this site could get so labeled. Determined to be “armed and dangerous” we would then be vulnerable to receiving a 5am visit by the local SWAT team with orders to search our homes, property, and confiscate our guns, and/or shoot us.

    • No, these laws are abominations. See the recent case in Vermont below where the relative of someone planning to commit a shooting had his guns taken away using a red flag law. Whatever protections might be written in initially, they will be stripped out over time, because “something needs to be done.” The California law has already been expanded so it’s not just family members, roommates, and law enforcement that can request a GVRO, co-workers, employers, and school officials can as well. How long will it be before it gets expanded again?

      The current generation freaks out and is ready to toss out the First Amendment because people might use the wrong words when addressing someone. They are the Listen and Believe generation, where the identity of the accuser is what matters, not the evidence. The people pounding on the doors of the Supreme Court aren’t going to care about due process when it comes to gutting the Bill of Rights. They’ll start with the Second Amendment and keep burning until there’s nothing left.

  12. Let’s not forget that the 2nd Amendment isn’t only about firearms. Same applies for stand your ground, castle doctrine and self defense.

    You should be able to keep, bear and use a sword, nunchucks, etc. It’s not only about muskets or handguns.

    • As I see it the 2nd Amendment is about whatever small arms are of common utility to the standing armies of the day. So, what does the USA Army, USMC, USN, USAF and even the USCG hand out to their “War Fighters” today?

      All those boomsticks, that’s what the 2nd is all about, we have a Constitutional right to keep and bear those.

      • The way I read it, “we the people” are supposed to have weapons superior to those of the military..

      • We have the human right to weaponry. The law acknowledges the people have the right to keep and bear arms. We start at military arms as a baseline, but it does not end there. Do not make the argument that you have no right to a taser, an assisted knife or mace.

        The supreme court wants you to believe that you have an individual right to keep arms so long as those arms do not threaten the public safety or if they are in common use.

        • About the same as I see it. the Second Amendment is a recognition and declaration of our natural right as well as the long proven necessity of a people being able to rise up against a tyrant, or aid in defense of an invasion. Can’t do any of that without the arms of the era in your hands.

          So I’m certainly not arguing against knives, swords, bayonets, pigstickers, axes or tomahawks. Edged weapons are still in military use and as far as I’m concerned, all weapons from today to long obsolete antiques are included in the Second Amendment.

          That includes “Less Than Lethal”, which is used by both our military and police.

          Where I live, in a Constitutional Carry State, all the above are recognized either in clarifying law or case law.

          Obviously, that ain’t New York City:

  13. The next Gov. of Ohio is DeWine, an anti-gun Republican:
    “In 2004 DeWine co-sponsored an amendment to renew the Federal Assault Weapons Ban. He has repeatedly received an “F” rating from the National Rifle Association.[54] He was one of only two Republican Senators to vote against the Protection of Lawful Commerce in Arms Act,[55] which banned lawsuits against gun manufacturers, distributors and dealers for criminal misuse of their products. In the 2006 election cycle, DeWine was the first senatorial candidate to be endorsed by the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence and displayed that endorsement on his campaign webpage.[Wikipedia]”

  14. In less than a week Johnny Boy will be able to have all the time he needs to arrange his sweater vest collection and not be annoyed by those pesky 2nd Amendment types.

  15. I can respect the differing opinions of others, but Kasich is such an arrogant jerk, I love to see him be defeated again…and again… and again. Is Schadenfreude always wrong?

    • Yes but I am right there with you as that is all I have unless we get a court decision in the next few years.

  16. To be clear, this was not (any longer) a ‘Stand Your Ground’ bill. That language had already been stripped from the bill before Kasich vetoed it. The ‘duty to retreat’ is still on the books. Any progress for our rights is a good thing, so I’m happy about the override, but this really was a neutered version of what it could have been. Hopefully the next session will bring more progress.

  17. I view Ohio as Pa’s only path to freedom, WV is too close to Fairyland to risk.
    Otherwise we’re surrounded by gun hating states which is awkward given the fact that they were some of the original 13 colonies you would think this would be the last place for gun rights to die, but here’s Jersey and Maryland crushing it.

    Maybe some of Ohio’s spunk will rub off on the mindless drones in Pittsburgh who think allowing individual cities to make their own bans should be fine.

    Way to go Ohio, enjoy your freedom to live in peace in your own home.

    • haven’t actually enacted those laws in Pittsburgh yet…think the city council’s having second thoughts…been sued twice already….”I love pee-pees peduto” [the mayor]…may not get his way on this one…

  18. Not living in Ohio, but that’s a big, “!!!YEEE–Hah !!!” from this end ; Stick it to em ,,, HAPPY NEW YEAR

  19. It should do a whole lot more than merely ruining the governor’s week. The members of the Ohio legislature who voted to override should be complimented.

  20. One can only hope this will spread a message to other ‘messiahs’ out there that think they know better than the constituents that put them in office. I can also only hope that ‘second amendment RINOS’ like this one will have to seek gainful employment elsewhere after their true colors are exposed.

  21. He also wants you to know his dad was a mailman.

    Living of the government your entire life gives you distorted views of reality.

    • at least mailmen actually do something, unlike some federal agencies such as dept. of education.

      but seriously, why hasn’t mail delivery been completely privatized? there was a need for a federal postal system back when there was no commercial industry that could profitably serve the far-flung populations. but now fedex, ups, etc. can do it for 99% of the population. the feds should only be responsible for getting mail to remote islands, remote places such as native villages in alaska, and to US troops overseas.

  22. power to the gun people, well the y key word here is “people” and in “democracy” that means people rule the government, and not ” demokrocy” for the fartherland , comrad. so signing something that gives more power to the people is something that should be done. not doing that and trying to give to the government is communism. so this swine showed his true colors when he vetoed that bill. BRAVO to the Ohio government for catching this. we have to be diligent .

  23. Wow, imagine having to use due process BEFORE you take away someone’s second amendment rights. What a novel concept. At least Ohio’s citizens got it right on BOTH sides of the isle.

    • due process s “rayciss” and a vestige of “white privilege”. it’s far more progressive to have government officials exercise unilateral discretion over the proles, like, you know, in every socialist and communist utopia.

  24. In your face John-John!

    Why don’t you and Bob Taft go over to Ted Strickland’s place and have a good cry.

  25. was he eating a sammich when he tried to veto the bill? geezus, that doofus was always sloppily eating a sammich on camera during the 2016 republican primaries.

  26. One great thing about this is that it will be one of Kasich’s last acts as Governor . . . . OVERRIDDEN. Be sure & scrapbook it, Governor.

    Let’s hope DeWine has a better respect for the Constitution, the citizenry & the voters than Kasich, but I’m not holding my breath. The NRA has repeatedly given DeWine an “F” rating.

  27. Good for the good folks of Ohio. If I’m not mistaken Ohio was the only state where the defendant had to prove they acted in self defense vs the prosecution having to prove they did not. In Andrew Branca’s excellent “The Law of Self Defense” there was seemingly an asterisk beside every discussed legal principle that said “except for Ohio”.

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