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Gun range owner Jan Morgan (courtesy

I just got off the phone with gun range owner Jan Morgan [above]. She reckons this move – banning Muslims from The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range – will lose her her business. “It will cost me everything I have to fight for this.” Fight for what, against whom? “For the safety and security of my patrons against The Department of Justice, EEOC or someone who’ll file a lawsuit against me.” Here’s Ms. Morgan’s official statement:

I officially declare my business, The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range, a MUSLIM FREE ZONE . . .

1) The Koran, which I have read and studied thoroughly and (which all muslims align themselves with), contains 109 verses commanding hate, murder and terror against all human beings who refuse to submit or convert to Islam. Read those verses of violence here.

2) My life has been threatened repeatedly by muslims who are angry that I have studied their koran and have, over the past two years, been exposing the vileness of the Koran and its murderous directives.

3) * The barbaric act of beheading an innocent American in Oklahoma by a muslim
* the Boston bombings(by muslims)
* the Fort Hood mass shooting (by a muslim) that killed 13 people and injured over 30 people
* and the murder of 3000 innocent people (by muslims) on 9/11

This is more than enough loss of life on my home soil at the hands of muslims to substantiate my position that muslims can and will follow the directives in their Koran and kill here at home.

4) Because the nature of my business involves firearms and shooting firearms in an enclosed environment, my patrons are not comfortable being around muslims who align themselves with a religion that clearly commands hate, murder, and violence against all non muslims. Therefore many of my patrons are uncomfortable around Muslims with guns. (can you blame them?)

5) My range rents and sells guns to my patrons. Why would I want to rent or sell a gun and hand ammunition to someone who aligns himself with a religion that commands him to kill me?

6) * Muslims, who belong to and, or, support ISIS, are threatening to kill innocent Americans.
* Muslims, who belong to or support AL Qaeda, are threatening to kill innocent Americans.
* Muslims who belong to or support HAMAS are threatening to kill innocent Americans.

See a common thread here?

7) I not only have the right to refuse service but a RESPONSIBILITY to provide a safe environment for people to shoot and train on firearms. I can and have turned people away if I sense they are under the influence of alcohol or mind altering drugs. I have a federal firearms license…

The ATF informed us when we received the license that if we feel any reason for concern about selling someone a firearm, even sense that something is not right about an individual, or we are concerned about that persons mental state, even if they pass a background check, we do not have to sell that person a gun.

In other words, a federal agency has given us this kind of discretion for service based on the nature of the business. I can and have turned people away if I sense an issue with their mental state. So… its difficult to imagine how the DOJ could have issues with this when ATF gave us this discretion.

8) I have no way of looking at Islam other than as a theocracy, not a religion. Islam is undoubtedly the union of political, legal, and religious ideologies. In other words law, religion and state are forged together to form what Muslims refer to as “The Nation of Islam.” Once again it is given the sovereign qualities of a nation with clerics in the governing body and Sharia law all in one. This is a Theocracy, not a religion.

The US Constitution does not protect a theocracy. The 1st Amendment is very specific about protecting the rights of individuals from the government, as it concerns the practice of religions, not theocracies. It clearly differentiates between government and religion. Again protecting the individual’s religious beliefs and practices from (the state) government. In Islam religion and state are one.

We are a Nation governed by laws, or the law of the land the U.S. Constitution. We are not a Nation that is governed by religion, politicians or clerics.

How then, can anyone say that, the practice of Islam is protected by the U.S. Constitution?

The muslim brotherhood has a documented plan for the destruction of America from within, discovered by our own government during a raid of MB operatives in America. In addition, I am very cognizant of the civilization jihad under way in my country by American muslims. In a number of states Muslims, through our legal system, are trying to force us to accept Sharia Law over Constitutional law. I do not wish to do business with people who stand against the Constitution and are fighting to replace it.

9) Islam allows Muslims to kill their own children, (honor killing) if the behavior of those children embarrasses or dishonors the family name. ( did you know that dating outside of the faith is justification for murdering their daughters and this has already occurred on American soil?) Why would I want people (who believe its okay to murder their own children), be in the presence of other children? My patrons often bring their kids to the range to teach them to shoot. I am responsible for providing a safe environment for those children to learn gun safety and shooting sports.

10) In the 14 hundred year history of Islam, muslims have murdered over 270 million people. Not all muslims are terrorists, but almost all terrorists in the world right now are muslim. Since you can’t determine by visual assessment, which ones will kill you and which ones will not, I am going to go with the line of thought that ANY HUMAN BEING who would either knowingly or unknowingly support a “religion” that commands the murder of all people who refuse to submit or convert to that religion, is not someone I want to know or do business with. I hold adults accountable for the religion they align themselves with.

In summary, I not only have the right, but a responsibility to provide a safe environment for my customers. I do not believe my decision is religious discrimination because I do not classify islam as a religion.. It is a theocracy/terrorist organization that hides behind the mask of religion in order to achieve its mission of world domination.

People who shoot at my range come from all religious backgrounds… some are atheists… I do not care about their religious beliefs. I care about the safety of my customers who come to shoot here. The government allows businesses to ban me from entering their business with my gun because the property owner feels uncomfortable or wants to provide a “safe” environment for their patrons which is in clear violation of my 2nd Amendment right to bear arms, so… I should be ale to deny service to people on the same premise. Can my government really force me to invite someone who had threatened to kill me, into my home or business?

I will do whatever is necessary to provide a safe environment for my customers, even at the cost of the increased threats and legal problems this decision will likely provoke.

Jan Morgan- owner / The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range
1225 Blacksnake Road
Hot Springs, Arkansas
(501) 767-9944

Follow Jan on facebook
and… her gun range facebook page, The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range

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    • My local ‘Victoria’s Secret’ has asked SD3 to never return. I try to not take it personally, but whatevs…

      • While I might agree that there are people who practice a version of Islam (one that does not hold the goal of all the world submitting to Islam) capable of peaceful co-existence with other creeds, I have to point out that Islam is not a race.

        • “Islam is not a race.”

          Exactly. How much do you want to bet that a caucasian muslim could waltz right into the range without Ms. Morgan batting an eye. On the other hand, if a punjabi sikh walked in, she’d probably pee in her pants.

          It wouldn’t surprise me if the business is already deeply in the red due to the owner’s stupidity and incompetence, and this is just a ruse so she can blame the gubment for shutting things down.

        • Until the government stops bullying nuns into paying for abortions and attempting to amend the 1st to protect only who they say it protects I will be unable to fill a thimble’s worth of the f***’s I give for their interpretation of freedom of speech and religion. This lady can do what she wants, its supposedly a free country. And I agree with her.

        • …and in order to show how wrong it is to pick on those nuns, you’ll rail against ISLAM until people see the light!

          but hey, why let just one lady make sound bytes that will be used to bash gun owners over and over. surely it’ll help if people co-sign her.

        • Yeah, Islam isn’t a race. How can one really tell who is a Muslim and who isn’t? There are Caucasian Muslims, just as there are Arab and Middle Eastern Christians……

        • I worked in the UAE for 6 years. Islam is not a race, however to be a Muslim one must have a Muslim name whether you are brown, white or blue. If you are a convert, a true convert must change their legal name otherwise they are not ‘truly’ a Muslim anyway. To participate at any gun center a person needs to show photo ID. So they will be going on a person’s name not what someone looks like.

        • You must have a Muslim name (just as Christians get a Christian name when they get baptized), but it doesn’t have to be on your ID. Many European converts to Islam don’t legally change their name, they just start using the new one in all contexts other than official paperwork.

        • By her logic, Catholics should be banned from her shooting range because they are all a bunch of pedophiles. And anyone with a Hispanic name should be banned from her shooting range because they are all a bunch of illegal immigrants. Heck, maybe even ban everyone who says they hate the Federal Government… because as the Oklahoma City Bombing taught us, they are all a bunch of terrorists. See where this is going? It’s bigotry, plain and simple. We live in a nation that judges each person as an individual. Let’s keep it that way.

        • Hahahaha you have got to be kidding!

          I guess all those murders of blacks by bigots in our nation’s history never happened! All those countless other cases of people being targeted specifically because they were a certain way, those didn’t happen either! Oh Uncle Sam, when are you going to stop pulling one over on us?!?!??!?

        • Bigots can be terrorists, as it happens. Could even be regarded as dormant terrorists. Soon as the climate changes in their favor terrorism ensues from their radical beliefs.

          But again… is it really so difficult to be neither a bigot NOR a terrorist?

        • Dustin, it is a lot easier to teach a bigot that his beliefs were wrong because his bigotry is not based on sacred texts openly taught by spiritual leaders and backed by millions of supporters.
          We make fun of bigots…Archie Bunker, George Jefferson… and nobody gets hurt.
          Try making fun of Muhammad.

        • Why would I want to make fun of Muhammad? And even if I did, I highly doubt there’s going to be a line of Muslims ready to behead me. They might not like me very much, or respect me. And I would deserve to lose their respect if I did that.

          There is, of course, a minority of Muslims who believe the way you are suggesting. And yes, it is a SIGNIFICANT minority at this time. But the Christian bible is filled with hate, violence, and blatant misogyny. And there has been significant minorities at various points in history of Christians absolutely playing the role of the terrorists, claiming they are just following the Bible. And yes, a lot of the hate/violence/misogyny bits are in the Old Testament, which is why it requires more than just a quick read through and extremely bare understanding of the Bible to understand what it truly says. The same goes for Islamic holy texts. Many of the referenced “violence” verses in the Koran are paired with verses that specifically dictate that if your enemy desires peace, you cannot kill him. Just like when the Bible says that a woman’s body belongs to her husband, it also says that a husband’s body belongs to his wife.

          One of the biggest red flags I look for when evaluating a provocative or antagonistic idea or philosophy, is whether or not the logic is too simple. The world is not black and white. It’s not even a gray scale. It’s full color. And if an idea is black and white (“Muslims are bad, mkay?”) or even gray scale (“a bunch of Muslims are bad, and this lady said she read the Koran… so even though there might be some good people who are Muslims, better ban them all just to be sure.”) then it there is a very VERY good chance that the idea is not a particularly well thought out one.

        • Waaaaaay too long of a reply to my obvious statement. The truth is much simpler than that. I didn’t even read your rant. Obfuscators like you can’t answer a yes or no question in one word.

        • Rant: speak or shout at length in a wild, impassioned way.
          I was neither wild, nor impassioned.

          Obfuscate: render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.
          If three paragraphs is enough to do that to you… my word dude… that’s messed up. I wasn’t exactly using big words or anything.

          Also: you didn’t ask a yes or no question… in fact… you didn’t ask a question.

          As to your “obvious statement”, bigotry OFTEN comes from holy texts. So… nope.

          But seriously… 3 paragraphs? My reply was roughly 1/4 the length of the original article (by word count). How’d you make it through the article itself?!

        • Sorry, I used more than 2 or 3 sentences again so I’ll try a simplified answer:

          Just because terrorism is worse than bigotry, doesn’t mean it’s okay to be a bigot.

        • Dustin
          I never said that. All I am saying is, don’t criticize bigots by defending terrorists. The comparison I gave is similar to: Would you rather eat dog shit or eat cyanide? I never claimed that bigotry is acceptable. I was trying to put everything in context but apparently, most people are incapable of critical thinking. To say “why do either?” is to disengage from the conversation and overt the issue.

        • What “context” justifies what you said exactly? And your secondary analogy is still absurd. I’d still rather not eat dog shit OR cyanide.

          If someone was holding a gun to my head and told me to choose, sure… that would be a legitimate choice. As it happens, NOBODY is forcing ANYBODY to be a bigot. That’s very much a personal choice, and a choice that doesn’t actually NEED to be made.

          A person can actually choose to be neither a terrorist, nor a bigot. There is no represented context here that makes the option between the two anything but absurd.

      • I am sorry, but try to walk into, or even on the sidewalk in front of certain mosques if you are not a muslim…Try the nice one in Minneapolis…I hear they are very accepting of everyone.

    • I don’t see a problem. I saw a documentary on the Muslim comunity in England and there were radical Muslims calling for the police and England to “go to hell” and there were these moderate Muslims that said “those calling for jihad are not part of the Muslim community. Islam is a religion of peace so they do not belong.” Oh I get it now! Islam is not violent. It is peaceful. So peaceful in fact that the moderate or true Muslims won’t oppose them. So declare a gun range Muslim free because the true Muslims don’t shoot guns so if any Muslim is offended by the ban then he is not a true Muslim. He is just a terrorist hiding behind Islam.

      • So…what I’m understanding from this is….the Christians who have killed, bombed, enslaved, racial profiled, killed thousands of innocent African Americans, support the KKK are NOT all terrorist and don’t associate them selves with these terrorist acts BUT “all” Muslims are terrorist?! ……..LOL. I hope she is not allowed to open any business that infringes on the rights of Americans of any religious affiliation.

        • Elisabeth, I am replying to you because your reply was under my first comment. Your reply, however, seems to be directed at Jan Morgan but I will have a go at it anyway.
          Short answer is, the Christian faith has evolved and is always striving to better it’s followers. Christians today do not condone evil actions of the past. The most outspoken group against slavery in America were the Christians. To compare Christianity to Islam is a diversion to the problem the world faces today with a large group…millions…of those claiming to be Muslim that are not adhering to American values of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Rather than bring up a group of Christians…hundreds…that did deplorable acts centuries ago, try to be creative in a way to stop millions of one sect, Muslim, Islamist, that is committing, promoting, harboring, ignoring terrorism as we speak.

    • God. If anything, it’s these racist bastards that really set me off. She’s taking this from the stereotype that all Muslims are terrorist murderers, and adding to the stereotype that gun owners are evil white-supremacists. Some of my best friends are Muslim, and they’re all sickened by the terrible acts the jihad commits. Muslims aren’t trying to “take over the world” with sheer violence. Has she ever read the Old Testament? Or heard of the Crusades? This is how segregation started! I hope she goes homeless trying to rebel against the Muslim “theocracy”. Sickening.

      • Her platform is based on personal study of facts…that’s not stereotyping. You are verbally regurgitating what those friends have told you. Have you converted yet? (Insert eye roll)

        • Based upon her logic, all followers of Abrahamic should be precluded from possessing firearms on her property due to #10. The Middle East has birthed the three large religions and murders of ‘non-believers’ or ‘infidels’ have been committed by all three.

        • They should know better than she does. She thinks that all Muslims are middle-eastern, radical murderers. And that is, guess what? A stereotype. Like Americans are cowboys and Mexicans are drug dealers and French wear fancy berets, she is basing her racism off of “known” cultural standards proposed by other cultures. Yes, the jihad are sick, but that’s the jihad. Why would American Muslims want to kill Americans? The reason the jihad do what they do is because of teachings of Islam interpreted violently by devout youths under severe cultural tension. Ya can’t find much of that here in America, can you?
          (Insert only talk about stuff you know about eye roll here)

        • Why would American Muslims want to kill Americans? The reason the jihad do what they do is because of teachings of Islam interpreted violently by devout youths under severe cultural tension.

          Are you really this obtuse? You deny that there are American Muslims who want to kill other Americans? Not as a matter of trend, or majority, but as an absolute?

          Ya can’t find much of that here in America, can you?

          I would file such sentiment under “dangerously naive.”

        • I very much doubt that. All her points sound like they’re taken verbatim from Fox News. I’m pretty certain that she didn’t actually study the Koran, for one, because then she’d know of the context for those “hundreds of quotes”, and the rules by which ones supersede the other, and the overall interpretation in mainstream Islam (which, by the way, varies from school to school).

        • One quote from the Koran is enough for me: Surah 8, verse 12: ” When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.”. Hard to “misinterpret” that as NOT violent… And if you are wondering what the context was, the verses just before were talking about how Allah had sent “angels” to help them in battle. Unlike in the Torah, there is no language that limits the justification for violence anywhere near the verse calling for violence. As well, verse 17 says that Allah is the one doing the killing, and that combat is a “test” for the believers… That does not sound like a religion I want promoted.

        • Trish, what do gun advocates always say? Guns don’t kill people, people kill people. You want to defend this shop owner on some flimsy research? I suggest you read the bible over a bit. An ignorant person, such as the one featured, could make the same case for banning all Christians.

          Religions, by themselves, are not violent. Violent men wrote violent passages and violent people follow those passages. Violent people are the problem.

          I other words, religions don’t kill people, people kill people.

        • Chase: One quote from the Bible is enough for me:

          Deuteronomy 22:
          28 If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, 29 he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.

          Now don’t talk to me about WHERE in the Bible it is or the need to properly understand and rightly divide. We are taking single quotes and negating context here so… your religion seems suggest the punishment for rape is about 50 silver and a promise to never let the woman escape… er… leave… i mean… something like that.

      • Ah, the old “you did it so we can do it” argument. I love this. I’m thinking of renting a car and going down there this weekend just to support her. It’s always the ballsy ones who get the heat. Man show me even one muslim country’s leader or people who have publicly opposed the “radical” side of this religion. Hello?

        • Meansmealone- thank you. Finally someone who might be a true American. Go there and support her. This is amazing and like I said before, it is us who have made it easy for terrorists to enter our country and kill us because all we want to do is be way to political. We need to turn this thing around and end this ASAP. Keep supporting and keep spreading the hate for Islam.

        • If you watch And listen to the right of the right you won’t see or hear of any Muslim opposing the Islamic Death Mongers.
          Sadly we have Christians here who would like a theocracy and keep trying to stack the deck politically in that direction. It’s different when they do it
          Then you have the white supremacists who are Christians that would love to be able to do what The Muslim Death Mongers are doing but know they will get caught.

        • Sadly we have Christians here who would like a theocracy and keep trying tostado [sic] the deck politically in that direction. It’s different when they do it

          [citation needed]

          Then you have the white supremacists who are Christians that would love to be able to do what The Muslim Death Mongers are doing but know they will get caught.

          The primary difference there being: when such people attempt to co-opt Christianity, they are immediately, resoundingly, and universally rejected by mainstream Christians (and just as easily and readily refuted by Christian doctrine). And such people are more likely to get caught because mainstream Christians help bring them to justice, instead of excusing, harboring, or even merely ignoring them.

      • Yes, I’ve read the Old Testament. And the New Testament. There are stark differences between the violence in the Old Testament and the drivel that is the Koran. One big difference, Christians (Jews really, Christians following more of the New Testament, in which the violence of the Old Testament is repudiated) aren’t running around every corner of the Earth re-enacting that same violence. I can’t say the same for muslims.

      • Or heard of the Crusades?

        You mean, the Crusades where Europeans attempted to defend themselves against marauding, murdering, pillaging Muslims who were trying to conquer them? Those Crusades?

        (Maybe you think that the Moors originated in Andalusia?)

        • I think he meant the crusades where the Muslims opened up Jerusalem as a city for all religions, and then the Christians decided that wasn’t enough so they went a killing.

        • “crusades where the Muslims opened up Jerusalem as a city for all religions,” Really? You mean how they opened Jerusalem to all religions after sacking the city, forcing all the people there to convert to islam and killing all who refused? That “crusades where the Muslims opened up Jerusalem as a city for all religions,”? Is that the one you are talking about?

        • Yes… the ones where it was constantly changing hands and nobody was innocent in the matter, but at least somebody tried to end the violence.

          The biggest takeaway I had from reading history was that every civilization that I felt bad for being sacked, had previously sacked the prior inhabitants.

      • You are a stupid stupid man. There is no hiding that we as Americans need to stay true and protect us from this pure evil. Let me tell you this pal- if it was a family member or a friend of yours and their head that was taken off here on our home front you would be signing a different tune. Her gun business should grow in the fastest way possible because we as Americans are going to continue to support our constitutional rights and fight to end this terror of Islam.

        • Some of you people are just out of your mind. Support America and keep your stupid comments to yourself and get the hell out of the country if this bothers you. Every single one of you would wish you had a gun on you if a terrorist was attacking you or someone around you. This is all bull shit when you people don’t agree with her and her business. I have seen across this country Americans not serve other Americans for no shoes or no shirts. Grow up and smarten up folks. Stay true to your fellow Americans. We are the reasons that it is so easy for terrorists to enter our country and attack us.

        • I’ll support America by trying to keep it a free country with liberty and justice for all, and that means not letting panicked fascist bigots like you anywhere near the helm.

      • Why do people use such inaccurate junk when attempting something as ludicrous as comparing modern Christianity to Islam? Okay, let’s break this down a bit: The old testament, unlike the koran, wasn’t written for christians AT ALL , let alone for Christians to follow. It was included in what we know as the bible merely to offer a historic perspective to some of the new testament writings. The NEW testament is what Christians are commanded to obey and NOWHERE in that part will you find orders to christians to kill ANYONE. The crusades happened literally hundreds of years ago and were for the same threats that we face NOW by radical islam: convert or die. Not justifying what they did, but it wasn’t QUITE the attack on peaceful non provoking muslims that it’s made out to be. Regardless, let’s come up with new material instead of ancient history, or lone non muslim individuals so sparse in occurence that we can remember their name without google.

      • You bring up the crusades, which would be valid if it was going on right now. Yes Christians and Catholics did horrible things during that time but it was during that time not something that is happening now. It’s like saying don’t let the Germans in too for what the Nazis did or don’t let the Japanese for what they did in WW2.

      • Pure islamofascist apologia. Your views could not possibly be more naive, reckless, nor dangerously ignorant of the obvious.

      • What was?

        To me, this reeks of ignorance or a publicity stunt.

        There is no way she can really enforce this other than if people declare themselves Muslim or she just ejects people based on how they look.

        She can also get the pants sued off her… the whole thing just seems stupid to me.

        It would have been far more practical (if she was serious) to just ask all known Muslims to leave without saying why. But that was not her intention with this, was it? She is using her business as a pulpit for social commentary.

        • It’s people like you that make it easy for terrorists to enter our country and attack us. What she is doing is brilliant and we all should Lear from her. Go shove your head up your ass you ignorant fool. If one of your family members head got cut off you would be signing a different tune. Smarten up pal.

        • I spent 6 months in Afghanistan as an infantry soldier.

          Go pound sand, internet commando.

          After you do that, very carefully reread what I said. Put on your thinkin’ cap, and try to figure out why I might have said what I said.

          Think really hard. Maybe factor in there that I’m a business major and know a bit about what business owners can be sued for.

          After all that, feel free to apologize for coming off like an enormous douche bag.

    • She has the legal right to refuse service to anyone of her choosing , hers is a private business , I disagree with the government telling small private business owners who they can or cannot do business with , I also disagree that Islam is considered a religion , I consider it a theocracy , which does not deserve respect of being called a religion . Be prepared and ready . Keep your powder dry .

      • Sorry, you might want to check your facts. Once she became a business (privately owned or not) she became bound by law. Which includes non-discrimination laws, and religion is a protected class under those laws.

        Since, you know, all the xtians who claimed to be discriminated against wanted to ensure they were allowed to “practice their faith”.

        So be sure to thank your local religious institution who pushed for laws that forbid you to discriminate against a person based on that person’s “deeply held” religious convictions…

        Thank you, Hobby Lobby.

        Thank you, Chick-Fil-A.

        Thank you, Rick Santorum.

        • By using your logic a business can’t deny me carrying a gun either than since they are bound to the laws of the Constitution. I can go all lawyer on you as well, and say that denying an armed American citizen in a private business is discrimination based on that individual’s Nation of Origin. It is a written and customary law to be armed in America especially where I was raised. We take care of our own and tolerate others, until realized that they aren’t our countrymen.

        • Jason, I would suggest actually reading the laws in question. They have a specific list of things which you can’t discriminate against. They do not include carrying a gun, but they do include religion.

    • mike, liberals have been giving us a bad name over guns for a long time, who do you think wants to disarm us, stop pandering to liberals, its time for americans with principals to stand up against liberalism, the disease that has just about destroyed this country

    • The comments under this article too. -sigh-

      Everyone is just letting the ignorance hang out on this one.

      After spending a few months of my life with nightly mortar attacks by the Taliban, intelligent people could probably figure out where my sympathies lie… or don’t lie.

      However, this is a right way, a wrong way, and a stupid way to do things. The publicity stunt mentioned in the article is firmly on the “stupid” side.

      This business owner is using her business as a soapbox. Ok fine, whatever she wants to do. The problem with this is it not only lumps gun owners into a certain camp in the eyes of many, it also gives progressives a medium to be /activists/.

      If I have to list all the ways this is a bad idea to someone, it would probably be falling on deaf ears anyway.

    • No, Mike. It reflects on one LGS/range owner. How many are there across the country, again?

      She is entitled to her opinion, and how to run her store. I am sure the DOJ will be on her like a ton of bricks, however, just like the bakers who didnt want to serve their goods at gay weddings for religious reasons.

      Not equating gay rights with Islam, either- just the totalitarian nature of the political correctness run rife in this last 6 years in particular, and having 100% leftwing activists being hired in the DOJ Civil Rights division, this is what its come to…Travon Martin, Ferguson, and I suppose this will be the cause celebre for CAIR to hyperventilate hysterically to distract from what ISIL and other prominent examples of the Religion of Peace do to those who disagree.

      Makes declining to serve some deemed dangerous rather pale, in comparison, eh?

      • @ Publius

        You are looking at this through the prism of logic, though.

        We have established time and again that anti gunners don’t use logic in their decision making/opinion creation process.

        Reality sucks. We all need to deal with it.

    • There are tons of gun ranges where I would be welcomed as a paying patron. Why would I go into this bigot’s range anyways. People like her don’t know a thing about what’s going on in the world yet they choose to act like they are being patriotic by discriminating. In fact, that is the most un-American thing they could do.

      My brother is a US Air Force veteran and my cousin’s husband was a Pakistani Army veteran until he was butchered by the Taliban. I was only discharged from the US Air Force because of a fractured spine. Yet we are proud to be Muslim and won’t shy away from it any day.

      A 50 year old white Republican friend of mine invited me to his farm for shooting practice yesterday. So ha, in your bigoted face lady!

      • Thank you, for that bit of common sense. No one HAS to go to her store if they dont like it. And no threats or fatwas just because she has an opinion.

    • I’ve been born on american soil, taught both american and muslim values. Never had a problem until I faced public education in which my interest in the military and firearms were very restricted. Had to go to the office 5 times until something changed, (The principal got fired, etc). I made it okay to wear NRA shirts at school, bring books regarding firearms (Handloading manuals, Guns illustrated etc) and now I wear a shirt showing firearms without fearing of school intervention where everyone else didn’t want to assist. Did I make it in NRA news? No. Am I muslim? Yes. So now on the ninth of september I waltz onto the internet and I see this. Like what the hell, really?

      • If you haven’t realized yet that USA is full of bigots who hate others on account of their race, religion, sexual orientation and other such things, consider it a rude but long overdue awakening. It’s better to know that Joe the friendly guy at the range would actually spit in your face if he found out you’re a Muslim, don’t you think?

    • 497 Responses to “I officially declare my business, The Gun Cave Indoor Shooting Range, a Muslim Free Zone”

      3 more comments to break 500! Come on guys we can do it!

      My final comment is, We can clearly see from the near 500 comments who will fight to save this Nation…this world, and who will allow the fight to begin in the first place.

    • I wonder if LEOs will be prohibited from frequenting this place while on-duty and/or in uniform since frequenting such a place would not look good for the departments. How would fellow LEOs respond if an off-duty officer is turned away due to this policy? Would this place be boycotted by law enforcement?

  1. Mapquest says it’s only a 5 hour drive from DFW to her range. I might have to make a road trip just to show my support.

        • The only thing most of us have in common on this site is that we own guns and talk to others who are aligned with our hobby. Just because we occupy the same metaphysical plane does not mean we live in the same worlds. I don’t associate with liberals or other peoples I find as undesirable characters, such is my free choice.

    • Why? If there is one thing that seems to be a unifying thread among the POTG, it is their belief in personal responsibility. Judging a religious group for the actions of a few crazies is antithetical to personal responsibility. Discriminating against your clientele based on their religion is unamerican. It really violated the fundamental principles of our nation. This woman isn’t a hero, she is a disgrace.

      • Be prepared for your well thought out and reasoned response to be shouted down with cries of “BUT AMERICA!” in 3… 2… 1…

        • I hope so. “All of the Muslims are bad because of terrorists” sounds just like Shannon Watt’s claim that “gun owners are bad because of Newton”. So many people on this blog that are fighting for their rights in our society are awful quick to support denying them to others as soon as they don’t like the group.

        • What did Newton ever do to Shannon Watts, beyond providing some clarification of the rate at which bullets drop?

      • You may want to check your definition of a few. There are
        approximately 1.5 billion muslims in the world. The number
        I keep hearing for those who strictly support fundamental
        islam (aka those that are okay with open jihad) is 400
        million. Also the number of those who follow the
        fundamentalists and while not necessarily agreeing with
        jihad but do nothing to stop it is around 400-500 million.
        So right of the bat we’ve got over 50% who see zero
        issue with all us infidels getting killed. For some more
        perspective the number of muslims who who support
        and/or ingage in jihad outnumber the USA’s entire

        • Chuck,

          400 million terrorist sounds completely made up. What are your sources for these numbers?

          If your claim is that Islam is bad because there are Islamic terrorists, why aren’t gun owners bad because there are bad gun owners? You might be comfortable judging a group by the actions of a few members, but that isn’t what this country is about. People should be judged by their actions and not the actions of people that claim to share a religion.

        • The largest sources would be Gallup and the book by
          John L. Esposito and Dalia Mogahed.

          Wikipedia has a decent overview. While wiki does not
          bring its own conclusion they do present statistics
          from the Institute for Economics and Peace and the
          Pew Research Center. Both of these sources back up
          my numbers. Daniel Pipes also does a pretty good
          break down of numbers.

          Never once to I condemn Muslims based on others,
          nor did I support them. I simply pointed out that while
          an overall percentage may (or may not) be small real
          world numbers show that even best case numbers for
          a minority still present a significant threat. I do not judge
          a group based on a few, but I will when based on the
          whole. I stick to Edmund Burke’s quote “the only thing
          necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
          nothing”. Here at TTAG we do not sit idly by for morons.
          Instead we call them out, usually with an IGOTD award.
          Many here feel that by calling out the idiots we can
          separate ourselves. I view moderate muslims in a similar
          manner. Do moderate muslims exist; of course they do.
          But how many openly speak out against radicalism? If the
          moderates outnumber the radicals, then drown them out
          with disapproval. Remove hardline pols and Imams, who
          support open jihad, from office. Start an actual push
          toward reformation, not simply state that your religion is
          misunderstood. In short I believe those that say nothing
          deserve even more animosity than the radicals because
          they lack the courage to even stand up for what they state
          they believe.

        • The number of honest to god, actual jihadists and people that support them is less than 400 million. If you are equating the number of muslims that live in fundamentalist countries to the number of muslims supporting terrorists then you aren’t accurately representing your numbers. Those aren’t the same thing.

          I have seen a bunch of posts (which, as far as I can tell, yours falls into) that claim we should go after the muslims because some of them want to kill us. Who cares! All of the terrorist in the world can’t destroy us or our way of life. But they can trick us into doing it for them. I don’t really care if some moron in Arkansas wants to declare her business muslim free. The civil court will solve that problem and this is just a publicity stunt anyways. But I am dumbfounded by the number of people on this board who proclaim out of one side of their mouth that they are for personal freedom and equal opportunity, and from the other side, we should stick it to the muslims because of terrorists. It is exactly the same argument that the anti-2A people use against us. Are they really that short sighted? Can they not see that their collectivist approach is ridiculous and unamerican? It is exactly counter to the values that we claim to support.

          Lets kill the terrorists and respect the rights of everyone else. Its not rocket science.

        • “number of muslims that live in fundamentalist countries to the number of muslims supporting terrorists”

          Really, sweety? Then why are the not hunting down and killing the terrorists? Oh, yea, they are too busy crawling on their knees and giving them money. You dumb f**k.

        • Let me try again without getting moderated!

          2hotel9, It is hard to respond to your comment as your statement is so totally devoid of intelligent thought. Is your position that we should disregard our founding principals and Constitution because the Muslim world does not fight terrorism as much as you would like. To call that ridiculous would be an insult to ideas that are ridiculous. If you actually have something to say, I’d love to hear it. If not, then maybe you should step away from your keyboard before everyone realizes how little intellectual prowess you really have.

        • Really? Your big plan is to crawl on knees begging muslims to not hurt and kill you? How has that worked in the past?

          Again, islam is the worship of death. That is not a religion, it is a mental disorder/disease. Until you grasp that fact you are lost.

      • “Discriminating against your clientele based on their religion is” rampant in ANY Muslim controlled country. *there fixed that for you.

        Oh but I’m sure YOUR Muslim friends would never turn on you…no especially with all of the wonderful examples of tolerance shown by Muslim’s towards the persecuted, minorities (Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Animists, Gays, Women, etc.). Yes the outrage and demand for human rights shown by Muslims worldwide towards all others is just deafening. Yes outrage that would be drown out by the chirping of a cricket.

        • You might be ready to throw out the Constitution and the founding principles of our nation because you don’t like the group being discussed, but I think that is wrong. If individual freedom and equal opportunity are principle that you hold, backing this woman is hypocritical and unamerican.

          “Oh but I’m sure YOUR Muslim friends would never turn on you” What a ridiculous statement. I’ve never had a “Muslim” friend turn on me. What an idiot. You sound like a nine year old. What’s next? Will we be kissing in a tree? If you have a point to make, please make it. If you are going to sound off like a child, please let the big boys and girls argue and go play.

        • Personally, I think she should not discriminate against Muslims. However, if she finds a Muslim who wants a lesson in how to transition from a handgun to a really long knife, it might be prudent to give the FBI a heads-up.

      • “Discriminating against your clientele based on their religion is” rampant and accepted in ANY Muslim controlled country. There fixed that for you.

        Oh but I’m sure YOUR Muslim friends would never turn on me or harm my family and friends…no especially with all of the wonderful examples of tolerance shown by Muslim’s towards their persecuted minorities (Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Atheists, Agnostics, Animists, LGBT, Women, etc.). Yes the outrage and demand for human rights shown by Muslims worldwide towards all others is just deafening. If only that cricket outside would stop chirping, I might hear those calls for tolerance from the people and their “religion of peace.”

        • Obviously a double post but I’ll leave you with this to consider Einstien, Hitler was Catholic. Are all Christians genocidal monsters because of Hitler?

    • I was going to say that it is an hour drive from LIT and being a pilot why don’t you fly there. Then I noticed the name of the airport. Bill and Hillary Clinton National Airport. Yeah…just take the 5 hour drive.

    • Every time I see an story about a Sorry Sack O’ Poo like this woman, I wish I was a regular at there establishment just so i could never spend a penny with them again.

      As far as the evil Muslim bit goes, just remember this: Nazi Germany was a Christian nation to the point that they murdered a few million people that didn’t fit in to what the Bible wants you to be or you might have been descended from someone that might have had hand in killing Jesus a couple of thousand years ago. And We, as the American people, flew the flag of Christianizing the savage Redman as justification for mass genocide. And both of those examples come from the last 150 years. Any time you resort to using your faith as justification to kill, things get really bad, really fast.

      The more I read comment like the ones supporting this woman, I feel the urge to destroy my guns, burn my NRA membership and start donating money to Bloomberg’s anti-gun lobby. If these people are the armed definers of our nation, safety and way of life, I want no part.

      • Nazi Germany was a Christian nation…

        Utterly false. Perhaps you’re confusing Christianity with Christian Identity? (Hint: they’re not even remotely the same thing.)

        • We, not to go if on a long tangent, but yes, Nazi Germany was a Christian nation. When a nation uses the Iron Cross as its emblem, the Nazi party symbol of a swastika was in part chosen for its ancient Germanic use as a Christian symbol, and Hitler orchestrated the removal and execution of non-Christians, its a Christian nation, even if the Nazi Elite didn’t give themselves a religious title.

        • Are people not taught history anymore?

          We, not to go if on a long tangent, but yes, Nazi Germany was a Christian nation.

          No, it most certainly was not. The German people were predominantly Christian, but the Nazi party was covertly and overtly hostile to all religion, and Christianity in particular. Hitler used elements of Christianity to placate the masses (including the introduction of Positive Christianity – I misspoke earlier, and referred to it as Christian Identity), but the party ideology always maintained itself as a secular ideology, that could not exist with religion in the long run.

          The Nazis put all churches under control of the state, executed clergy by the thousands, attempted to force the replacement of the Bible with Mein Kampf inside churches, and tried to adulterate Christianity with the introduction of many pagan beliefs and symbols, including the swastika.

          Hitler himself, according to Goebbels, as well as many historians, rejected the Catholicism of his youth, and was an atheist.

          Such ignorance of history is alarming.

      • “I feel the urge to destroy my guns, burn my NRA membership and start donating money to Bloomberg’s anti-gun lobby. If these people are the armed definers of our nation, safety and way of life, I want no part”

        I do not own guns for social status, or to be in any club, or political beliefs, or because my friends have guns, I have guns to protect myself an my family. When things go bump in the night and your responsible to protect your children you rely on the best tools to get the job done and the best tools is a gun. There is nothing a fellow gun owner can say to sway me from my firm grip on my gun, hell the anti gunners already call me a small peckered, racist, inbreed, obese, insecure, firearm screwing loon….if that hasn’t caused my to “burn all my guns” then why would I do so for a fellow firearm owner I may disagree with. Your logic is flawed, you being a gun owner does not equal you representing me, your ideas concern me, but still there is no way that would ever cause me to contemplate burning my guns. As the saying goes…”only from my cold dead hands”

      • >> The more I read comment like the ones supporting this woman, I feel the urge to destroy my guns, burn my NRA membership and start donating money to Bloomberg’s anti-gun lobby. If these people are the armed definers of our nation, safety and way of life, I want no part.

        Jon, you’re thinking about it from a wrong angle. If these people are so many, and they are armed, think about what happens when they go full retard. And you know what still holds true? “Only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun”. And don’t count on the military, either – a lot of posters here are vets.

        So it up to people like you and me to provide a sane, armed counterbalance to fascists with guns. And vote, of course, so long as it’s still an option.

        • Jon, you’re thinking about it from a wrong angle. If these people are so many, and they are armed, think about what happens when they go full retard.

          You imply that people who are alert to the inherent danger of Muslim extremism are more dangerous than actual Muslim extremists? Well, you certainly do know all about going full retard.

          So it up to people like you and me to provide a sane, armed counterbalance to fascists with guns.

          It doesn’t surprise me that you’re an elitist. You’re smarter than them; you’re more moral than them. It’s like you walked right out of the pages of Thomas Sowell’s The Vision of the Anointed.

          You have more in common with Bloomberg and his acolytes than you might think.

        • The actual Muslim extremists are mostly in places like Iraq right now. The amount of them in US is so tiny as to be negligible. The amount of Christian extremists is, unfortunately, much bigger, and they’re quite heavily armed, so they present a more credible threat to me and mine.

          And yeah, I’m fairly confident that I’m more moral than you. This is not a credit to myself – it doesn’t take much, just being a decent human being.

        • The actual Muslim extremists are mostly in places like Iraq right now. The amount of them in US is so tiny as to be negligible.

          And what amount above “negligible” constitutes the threshold at which we should start taking note? A highway sniper, a SUV driver plowing through pedestrians, an army base massacre, an honor killing, and a beheading here or there – all still just “negligible”, and not worthy of note or concern, right?

          The amount of Christian extremists is, unfortunately, much bigger, and they’re quite heavily armed, so they present a more credible threat to me and mine.

          And what specific threat, exactly, do these so-called “Christian extremists” pose to you and yours? Or is your rhetoric merely specious paranoia?

          And yeah, I’m fairly confident that I’m more moral than you. This is not a credit to myself – it doesn’t take much, just being a decent human being.

          The great thing about being a Christian is: the belief that we’re all inherently immoral and imperfect without the work of Jesus Christ in our lives leads to a rather liberating sense of humility. Because of that, I really couldn’t care less what you think about my being a “decent human being” – unless and until you start calling me an extremist, and implying that you sense the need to use your firearms against me.

          Maybe you should see a professional about that specious paranoia you harbor.

        • Negligible means negligible. You know, how every time the antis start talking about how guns cause massacres, and people here rightly note that it’s nothing compared to deaths caused by swimming pools and stairs?

          Well, turns out that Muslim extremists are to guns like guns are to swimming pools, in terms of danger level, if you look at the number of people killed by them in the USA.

          So yeah. I’m not going to be concerned about it at all.

          I’ll call you an extremist because you clearly are. Because you are an extremist, and an armed one at that, I do feel the need to be similarly armed to protect yourself in case your paranoid mind decides that it’s time to go after Muslims, militant atheists etc, ad maiorem Dei gloriam.

        • I’ll call you an extremist because you clearly are.

          …this is known as begging the question.

          Because you are an extremist, and an armed one at that, I do feel the need to be similarly armed to protect yourself in case your paranoid mind decides that it’s time to go after Muslims, militant atheists etc, ad maiorem Dei gloriam.

          To be clear: of the two of us, the only one threatening the use of arms is… you.

          Seek professional help.

        • I’m not threatening the use of arms. It’s not a threat to say that you will use the means at your disposal to protect yourself against violent attacks.

        • “in US is so tiny as to be negligible” And yet they have already caused the deaths of thousands of innocent people. You are a f**king retard. And the very reason the enemies of the human race are winning.

        • In a country of 300 million.

          Yeah, I’m so scared!

          “Thousands of people” over the past 30 years is not even a blip on the radar.

    • I’m not sure if what she did is right. I have mixed feelings, personally. But I agree 100% that we have to shake off our fear of the PC police. If we do not, Americanism, by which I mean individual liberty, free markets (voluntary and honest exchange of value between free people), and true equality (equality of opportunity, not the unnatural standard of equality of outcome), will surely perish. The two other dominant ideologies in the world right now, authoritarian collectivism and militant Islam, will each never quit until we are all subjugated.

      • When we say that we are tired of PC, do we mean that we should go back to calling African Americans, niggers; Jews, kikes; Asians, slants or chinks or japs; homosexuals, faggots? Do we really want to go back to intolerant, exclusionary language? Does it really weaken the US to not call people names?

  2. As much as I’m no fan of muslims, I don’t think it’s appropriate, or fair, to paint them all with the brush of “would-be terrorist”.

    I think her stance is as distasteful and ugly as if she said it was a “no black person” zone, or a “no Jew zone” or a “no homosexual zone”.

    Fair disclosure: I don’t have any friends who are muslims.


    • Then maybe it is time for the moderate mulsims to stand up and be heard publicly denouncing the extremists…….ECHOES OF SILENCE!

      Until we hear that change, PROFOUNDLY, WGAF what some extremist religious nutjobs think eh!

      • Like all the muslim organizations and countries that decried 9/11? (there were many – go read up if you don’t believe me).

        This kind of attitude does a disservice to all the muslims who fight extremism.

      • They won’t do it. The moderates are sheep. They get beheaded more often than Christians or Jews but take the pacifist approach. They truly believe that Islam is a peaceful religion to a fault.

        • I’d also like to know what percentage really believe in separation between their church and state. On the one hand, I believe the first amendment protects their right to believe in imposing Sharia on everyone else, as long as they don’t actually try to do it. Messed up, but how else can their be true freedom of speech? But anyway, how do you know how many believe in separation of church and state in a religion that condones, even encourages lying in the service of spreading that religion? All too often you see Islamists as great proponents of minority rights, right up until the time they get a majority.

      • Echoes of silence?? Have you asked yourself where you would expect to see a moderate “stand up and speak out”? I have social media feeds full of national and local Islamic organizations issuing statements, sending letters, and doing Q&A. Many Friday sermons, there are comments about it all. Of course there is a handful of the major media outlets and countless small groups.

    • She does make some good points and I can understand her position but…

      There are many things as bad in the Christian Bible, usually in the Old Testament. Modern Christians ignore those things and acknowledge that they are not appropriate for the times and not consistent with “God’s will.”

      Just as there are many Muslims that ignore the parts of their holy text that call for those things.

      I think the real problem is that most of the places where Islam is prevalent are poorer regions, and that drives people to do some pretty nasty things to better their lives. Christianity kept us in the dark ages for a while too, but eventually most of the craziness in interpretation was resolved.

      • Some of the regions where Islam is prevalent are poor because of Islam. For example, the oil producing regions have extraordinary wealth, but the people are kept poor by the theocracy that controls those nations.

        • Humans being human.

          Is there a prohibition against firearms, legal or de facto, for the poor in these regions?

        • But of course Brian, can’t have the peasants overthrowing the sheik every year or so. Too bad most of the scumbags who get guns do so illegally and use them to further cement the powers over them.

        • That could very well be, and was the reason for my last comment. Christians during the dark ages burned books, accused men of science of heresy, etc. Islam isn’t the only religion that has been used to hold back progress in the name of the leaders retaining power.

          The overall point I am trying to make is that religion tends to be warped for individual purposes. It has happened with Christianity as well as Islam. It all depends on who is interpreting it. Nearly every point I see someone raise about Islam has also been true for Christianity at some point in history.

        • “…Nearly every point I see someone raise about Islam has also been true for Christianity at some point in history.”

          What nonsense. We aren’t talking about “some point in history.” We are talking about today.

        • “What nonsense. We aren’t talking about “some point in history.” We are talking about today.”

          No, we are talking about whether the book itself and the religion it is based on is inherently bad, and time frame is irrelevant there. The points in the article seem to indicate that any and all Muslims give tacit approval to these acts because they are condoned by the book they worship.

          I am saying that there are many terrible things condoned by the Christian Bible as well (mostly Old Testament). If a Christian stoned someone for one of the many reasons the Bible says you can, and I said “Well all Christians tacitly approve of that because it’s in the book they derive their religion from.” that would be just as absurd.

          Are there way more Muslims doing terrible things? YES. Does that mean that all Muslims approve of those acts, even if they don’t participate? NO. But the person that wrote the article seems to think so.

        • You are just excuse making. In this day and age there is no comparison between Islam and Christianity or Judaism.

        • I note that for the ca. 500 years that the Caliphate was held by the Turks, it was forbidden in the Islamic world to use moveable-type printing presses. I can only speculate that this somewhat retarded the spread of both technical and historical knowledge in the Islamic world. Am I reading too much into this?

          It does seem somehow uncouth that death is still the penalty in some Islamic countries today for apostasy. The obvious fact that major Islamic leaders seem to keep labeling the USA as the devil doesn’t really tickle me, either. You?

          As for the “protection for minorities just until we’re the majority” meme, boy is that a common fate of former majorities. Hi, there, LA! I would suppose the current administration bigwigs will be a bit taken aback when they find, in their golden years, that their kind are at loggerheads with the new Latino America. Nothing ever seems to work out the way people expect it to. People. Can’t live with ’em, can’t live without ’em (to re-purpose a common trope).

          Face it. On average people are no damned good. Except you and me. Unless you are a spineless politician.

        • The list of “accomplishments” apologists accredit to Islam all predate the creation of Islam by the child molesting f**k named Mohammed.

      • No, Christianity did NOT kept us in the dark ages for a while too. If anything, Christianity helped lead Europe out of the Dark Ages. Read some history.

        • Maybe I should have said the Catholic church kept us in the dark ages. When people are afraid to pursue or publish scientific works because they could be labeled a “Heretic”, and non-Christian books are burned by the church then yes Christianity (or rather the ruling class’ interpretation of it) caused/extended the “dark ages.”

          Seems like maybe you should read up on the lack of scientific research or literary growth during that time and the cause?

          Note that I am not necessarily placing the blame on the religion as the root of the problem, but that both Christianity and Islam have been used to justify actions that hurt society overall. Just like the Islamic “religious leaders” do now, the Catholic religious leaders of the time used the religion and their followers to gain and keep power.

        • As a Jew I am not exactly a fan of the Middle Ages Catholic Church, however it should be noted that it was pretty much the Church alone that kept alive little traditions like reading and writing. After Rome fell, there really wasn’t much book learning in Western Europe outside of the Church.

        • Misnomer,

          We might as well open up another can of worms. You stated,
          “Maybe I should have said the Catholic church kept us in the dark ages.”

          Yes, the Roman Catholic church and the Roman Catholic church alone kept us in the Dark ages because there were no Protestant churches in the Dark Ages. While some of the rank-and-file members of the Roman Catholic church mean well, their church has some very disturbing elements of doctrine that are very problematic historically and at present. Suffice to say that no Protestant church has ever endorsed widespread killing of people for rejecting Christianity.

      • “There are many things as bad in the Christian Bible” No, there are not. This is the kind of PC crap that is spewed by apologists. First of all, most of the “let’s kill someone” passages are tied to specific historical contexts. They refer specifically to certain peoples who lived during the time of the Bible, but no longer exist. The Koran, by comparison does not place situational or historical restraints around its exhortations to kill unbelievers. See this site for a good example of what I’m talking about:

        Is the Bible completely, squeaky clean? No, of course not. It came out of a barbaric time and as such has certain barbaric elements. The Koran by comparison sees what the Bible has and raises it ten-fold.

        Finally, as noted by the writer on the site I referenced above, “Our first clue that this probably isn’t true (the bible being as bad as the Koran) is the scarcity of Christian terrorist groups. Not too many people are losing their heads to fanatics screaming praises to Jesus (or Moses, Buddha or the many Hindu gods either) as they are to shouts of “Allah Akbar!” That there are so many Islamic terrorist groups composed of fundamentalists (or purists) of the Muslim faith is enough to impress any reasonable person that there is something far more dangerous about Islam.”

        • There was a lot of “stoning” going on and justified for many reasons in the Old Testament. And then there was this…

          Lev 24:16: “And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of the Lord, shall be put to death”

          Again, there is all kinds of archaic stuff in there that is ignored today by modern Christians, a lot of it contradicted/repealed by the New Testament.

        • That Leviticus passage refers to the laws of the kingdom of Israel. That’s pretty much the context of Leviticus, although it does tell us what God thinks about certain things when the language is particularly strong.

      • So which groups of Christians are currently slaughtering people in the middle east by the thousands?

        Come on. Name those groups.

        P.S. I’m an atheist, but I will always call BS on the “Christians are just as bad” crap. They’re not. Christians have learned to ignore most of the bad and nonsensical stuff in the bible, while Muslims actively embrace and excitedly carry out all of the most violent teachings within the Koran, and they do it with every bit of glee they can muster.

        I would fully support a new crusade of the western/Christian world against Islam.

        • It might help to read my comment in its entirety. I never said they are just as bad now. My entire point was simply this:

          Both Islam and Christrianity have things in their holy books that can be construed (and in some cases outright state things) to justify violence against many groups, including nonbelievers. Both books can be interpreted that way if one chooses.

          And like Christianity, where most Christians ignore those more “out there” parts that advocate violence, there are many many Muslims that choose to ignore those parts of their texts. Hence, Muslim does not automatically mean “advocates violence” any more than Christianity means it.

      • “Modern Christians ignore those things and acknowledge that they are not appropriate for the times”

        This is incorrect, at least as presented.

        Modern Christians don’t ignore those aspects of the Old Testament because they are not appropriate for the times. At all.

        Modern Christians, indeed, non-modern Christians as well, “ignore” those aspects of the Old Testament because Christ, in the NEW Testament, gave the mandate that those were not the true laws.

        It is inherent in the very theology of Christianity to take the Old Testament and New Testament collectively as a whole story of Man’s relationship with God.

        When asked what is the most important law (a question he was asked in an attempt to trip him up, much as a lawyer might ask a hostile witness), Jesus Christ replied “Love God with everything you have.” This is also repeated numerous times in the OT, and stands to show that relationship is the true goal of professed Christians.

        First Law: Relationship Man to God
        Second Law: Relationship Man to Man

        He was giving interpretation of “law” as it applies to divine matters, not to matters of man (“he pissed me off, so I get to stone him” kind of stuff).

        So, “modern Christians” don’t ignore the OT laws because they are inconvenient or have fallen out of fashion. They are CLARIFIED by divine commandment given in the NT and thus form the very premise Christianity itself.

        • Yes, this is indeed one of the interpretations. I tend to agree with that one as well.

          But there are many Christians that believe some things in the Old Testament still apply. They pick and choose, but most choose not to apply the more violent edicts.

          Keep in mind also that for a long time, the Old Testament was the only Testament (or at least the individual writings as they existed).

          Maybe the Koran needs a new testament? Unfortunately it is unlikely there will be any new prophets to write one.

        • Except for the half a dozen times throughout the NT, Jesus says that the OT laws apply until the end of days…

          “For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass the law until all is accomplished. Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:18-19)

          “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

          “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

          “Know this first of all, that there is no prophecy of scripture that is a matter of personal interpretation, for no prophecy ever came through human will; but rather human beings moved by the holy Spirit spoke under the influence of God.” (2 Peter 20-21)

          “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law” (John7:19)

          If you’re gonna believe some book of sand-cult fairy tales, you should at least know what the contents are. Maybe by actually reading it cover to cover a few times. The Qu’ran has even more fun stuff, which was lifted directly from the OT. Catholic school teaches you all sorts of things…

        • If you’re gonna believe some book of sand-cult fairy tales…

          I just want to make sure I have my ad hominem rules straight: saying anything potentially offensive about Islam is bigotry worthy of the highest opprobrium, but atheists can trash Christianity with impugnity. Is that about right?

        • Islam is also just another Abrahamic sand-cult. It’s a socio-political modification of Judeo-Christianity. Feel as offended as you wish about calling a things what they are. They’re all cribbed from Mazdaism, and if you don’t know that, I can’t begin to fathom your ‘beliefs’, because you have no idea where they come from.

  3. My guess is that the number of Muslims in Hot Springs probably numbers less than 21 and that is counting with all fingers and toes.

  4. Goddammit, when will Republicans learn to keep the bigotry quiet instead of making all gun owners look like uneducated hicks?

    • She has EVERY RIGHT to her own beliefs, even if they are unpopular or even just wrong.

      Just as I find her stance distasteful, she’s got every right to implement it.

      The marketplace will sort it out (as in bankruptcy) if she’s too far out of line.


      • She also has the right (although it might be proscribed by current federal law) to exclude blacks, Jews, the elderly, etc. It doesn’t prevent us from pointing out how despicable the behavior is.

        • Actually she doesn’t. It’s against the law and at the very least she can be sued.

          Business owners have every right to reject /anyone/ as long as they don’t say why, pretty much.

        • Yep. Just don’t give a reason, simply ask them to leave. This is a point many people just can not grasp, especially here. And DoJ. Various state level AGs, DAs, prosecutors, Jesse&Al etc etc etc. This is the very source of humanity’s problems. Busybody c**ts who simply refuse to shut their f**king mouths and leave real human beings the f**k alone. Islam and the Catholic Church are prime examples of this anti-human behavior. The Democrat Party/leftard f**ks are yet another. Christians lost their power to do this 100 years ago, when they surrendered it willingly, and yet they get the blame for every f**king body else’s sh*t. Go figure.

      • If her business is a place of public accommodation (my guess is that it is), then it is not her right to implement this policy. Religion is a protected class under federal law, and this won’t fly in court. If the range is a private club, then they can discriminate however they want.

        This lady is an idiot, and I look forward to seeing her get her ass handed to her during the inevitable lawsuit. Unfortunately, as others have pointed out, this will reflect poorly on the entire gun community.

        • Rights and laws aren’t the same thing. Rights are natural and pre-existing. A right to decide with whom you will transact commerce seems natural enough to me. Is it illegal? Sure ’nuff. Do I support her religious intolerance, not even close. Do I think it’s even intelligent? No. If you removed the bigotry from her stance she’s basically claiming a terrorist free zone. That’s about as effective as a gun free zone.

        • …Religion is a protected class under federal law…

          The issue there, of course, is that Islam is not a religion. It is a complete, socio-political-cultural system, the basic principles of which are contrary to the human rights protected by the constitution.

          A thought: from a legal perspective, how is this policy any different from Muslims who have forced public pools to institute gender-segregated swim times?

        • “The issue there, of course, is that Islam is not a religion.”

          Chip, you are going to have a hard time arguing this considering there are an estimated 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, just about every other major religion recognizes Islam as a religion, Islam predates our Constitution by about 1500 years, our Founding Fathers recognized the Moslems (their spelling at that time), some of those Founding Fathers who were Masons also had strong connections to Moslem Masons, and about 50 other points I could make to refute your notion that Islam is not a religion.

        • Chip, you are going to have a hard time arguing this considering there are an estimated 1.5 Billion Muslims in the world, just about every other major religion recognizes Islam as a religion, Islam predates our Constitution by about 1500 years, our Founding Fathers recognized the Moslems (their spelling at that time), some of those Founding Fathers who were Masons also had strong connections to Moslem Masons, and about 50 other points I could make to refute your notion that Islam is not a religion.

          Except, not a single one of those points refutes the assertion that Islam is not a religion. It is an all-encompassing socio-political-cultural system that incorporates religious beliefs.

          Where it is theoretically possible to separate the religious beliefs of Islam with the rest of Islam (e.g. Sharia), then I agree that expression of those religious beliefs enjoys first amendment protection. The problem is: no such differentiation exists in the actual practice of Islam.

        • Chip, you will just have to concede that Christianity is not a religion either for all the same reasons. All these Christians that want the Bible to be the basis of our laws are no different than Muslims wanting the Koran and Sharia Law. It is too easy for the pot to call the kettle black.

        • Chip, you will just have to concede that Christianity is not a religion either for all the same reasons. All these Christians that want the Bible to be the basis of our laws are no different than Muslims wanting the Koran and Sharia Law. It is too easy for the pot to call the kettle black.

          Except that Christians founded this country on the basis of freedom of religion, and specifically wrote into the constitution explicit protections for expression of religious belief. To compare that to Sharia might be the stupidest thing I’ve read in this entire thread.

          In the words of Principal Oblaski: “At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.”

      • Does she? Religion is a protected class. Unless she makes this a private club, the DOJ will be on her like white on couscous.

        • Similar to the bakery that refused to make a wedding cake for a gay couple, or the photographer that wouldn’t do wedding photos. Sooner or later, some activists in cahoots with a state or Federal agency will force the issue.

        • The Constitution limits the power of the government to infringe on your natural rights. 2A does not enter the equation when you are interacting with a private entity on their private property.

          The law that people are talking about here is just a law, not a constitutional article. And it specifically applies to private entities, and enumerates the things that are illegal to discriminate against, and religion is on that list.

        • I wouldn’t be to sure about that. One of her
          main tenants is that Islam is not a religion
          at all but a cultural state (i.e. a theocracy).
          If the government itself goes after her it
          will be in an underhanded way so that her
          argument never sees light in a courtroom.
          I’d sooner expect that the race-baiters
          will drum up a few protest (complete with
          death threats that will go unreported by
          the MSM) and the MSM will try to shame
          her out of business but the gov will lean
          back and then quietly nail her with a
          bogus atf or irs violation.

      • John, agree with you 100%

        As a big believer in personal responsibility and free will, she has the right to do as she pleases with her business, just as I have the right to not not support it.

        However, I must say that I completely disagree with her statements and found them pretty sickening.
        I grew up Christian with a lot of Christian and Jewish friends. In addition, some of my coworkers and one of my closest friends are Muslim. I have no intention of converting to Islam or Judaism, but I would trust my close Muslim friend to defend myself and other Americans against all enemies, foreign and domestic, as much as I would any other American, whether they are Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, or something else. The idea of classifying an entire group of people based on the actions of a few strikes me as ridiculous. That’d be like classifying all Germans as evil because of the Nazis or lumping all Christians in with the KKK. If we think about it, Islam is estimated to have 1.6 billion followers, or about 23% of the world population. If every Muslim was a terrorist and as evil as you insinuate, don’t you think we’d have a lot more enemy fighters on our hands? Sure, we have Muslim terrorists hiding in our mist. However, I doubt they make up more than 1% of the Muslim population in the US, if even .01%. Even if the number were 99%, would it be fair to to blanket the other 99% and say they are all dangerous because they follow Islam? Would I assume all Catholics are pedophile rapists because of the actions of a few? How about if I measured all Christians by the actions of the Crusaders, or more recently the Lords Resistance Army? Even more poignant, look at how African Americans were treated up to 50 years ago, simply because of the color of their skin.

        I find some of her points interesting however.
        Point #2) Did she get the threats online or did she talk to an actual Muslim face to face? Any Muslims I have talked to has always been more than willing to discuss the Quran and clarify any misunderstandings I may have when reading it or any other “truths” I’ve heard in the media.
        Point #10) I’m going to be a little nitpicky, but not “almost all” terrorists in the world are Muslim. While a majority of the terrorist groups in world claim to be Islamic, a Google search can find many terrorist organizations that are NOT Muslim. For example: IRA, FARC, PKK, etc… If almost all terrorists were Islamic, we should redefine terrorism to specify Islam then.

    • Bigotry is the unjustified discrimination against a group. Muslims are a threat where ever they are. Even the President has now admitted that Muslims are responsible for almost all of the conflict in the world today. Before you jump on me about being an old white guy I will tell you about my Grandfather. Gramps was a German who served in the Kaiser’s Army before WWI. He died in 1910 but had he lived until 1917 he would have faced discrimination in Chicago. And you know what, it would have been justified because I am pretty sure he would have sided with the Kaiser and Germany, and opposed the US entry on the Allied side.

      • Black men are responsible for a disproportionate amount of violent crime in the US. How would you feel if she used that as the basis for banning blacks from her range?

        Judging an entire group of people, because they have some traits in common with some bad people is discrimination. It’s wrong and any moral person should oppose it.

        • The black males that are threat can be readily identified by things like gang tatoos. She can easily tell a gangbanger from Dirk. In addition most gangbangers are prohibited persons.

          Perhaps you should climb off your high horse and admit that, like Jessie Jackson, if you see a group of young black males in hoodies you cross the street.

        • If you’re born black, you can’t choose to not be black. (Sorry, Michael!)

          If you’re born muslim, you can choose to reject the teachings and ideology and identity. (Though that carries the death penalty under sharia law)

          So it’s really not the same.

        • Wow…so much fail.
          That’s the same sort of discriminatory stereotype. Dressing a certain way does not imply gang membership, so no she can’t distinguish them from the guys who like hip-hop culture. Also, any muslim terrorists are prohibited as well, so your reasoning fails there as well.
          I don’t have a high horse, and I don’t cross the street because guys in hoodies are there, unless they appear to have dangerous intent.

          Why should a muslim have to reject his heritage to be considered equal? Or are you making the same ignorant generalization about all muslims being evil murderers that she is?

          It amazes me that so many people can make these irrational claims and not realize that they sound exactly like the gun grabbers talking about gun owners.

        • @JasonM I am merely pointing out that the comparison of protected status of race and the protected status of religion is not a valid one.

          Say you have a store, and you ban Hipster Douchebag Leprechauns. Well HDL can shave his beard, take off his stupid hat, and treat other people with respect, and he’ll be welcomed in.

          But if you ban, say, Trix Rabbits, there’s no disguise Trix Rabbit can use that will make him stop being a Trix Rabbit.

      • Really? There are hundreds if not thousands of German immigrants who had no loyalty to the Kaiser. Tell that to them. Tell that to the 100th Infantry, whose parents were all Japanese-born, yet earned more war decorations in the service of the USA than any other fighting unit. My mother was born in Mainland China. What say you if war breaks out with the PRC?

        • If you bother to read your history some of the biggest centers of anti-war sentiment in WWI were areas with large German populations. Big Bill Thompson, Mayor of Chicago during WWI, was very popular in Chicago’s German community because he was opposed the war.

        • So what are you saying? That all German-Americans were agents provocateurs? Broad enough brush for you? Clearly there were more than a few loyal Japanese-Americans. So I don’t buy this “judge the group as a whole” ethic. You sound as if you would have been fine if your grandfather was rounded up by dint of his name or even his service. If your grandfather was passing information to the Central Powers, then I would agree, but deny everyone named Schmidt, Jaeger and Koch liberty because of their national heritage? That’s unAmerican.

        • What I am saying is that stereotypes have a basis in fact. In both WWI and the current era people who fit the stereotypes are not a rarity.

        • “Stereotype” is what we call a demographic statistic we don’t want to be true, for whatever reason.

          Is everyone white, 19, and raised in the ‘burbs gonna think the same? No. Can you push the right buttons and make them into Axe Body Spray douchebags? You know it.

          Is there a distinct predilection that can be tapped with predictable results? You bet your ass. It’s called marketing and it’s so scientific it hurts. It’s also called sociology and it’s also rather accepted. Like it or not, we all behave in rather predictable ways, once you have some idea who “we” are. Big data is really good at this, and getting better every day.

          We don’t all behave the same, but we almost always follow a rather predictable pattern, once you have some idea who we are.

    • Um, did I miss something? I do not recall seeing anything that indicates she checked the “Republican” check box on her voter registration card.

      • We can make a reasonable guess. I know of only one party in US where such views are not considered unacceptable (and even there they’re fringe, or at least openly expressing them is)

    • Even if we assume she is a Republican, which we can’t, you yourself have just applied her exact logic to two separate groups, in one statement – those of Republicans, and gun-owners. Irony must taste like feet.

    • I’m not so sure about that. I am interested to see how this plays out. I am guessing nothing in the main stream will be said. Fox may cover it. Hanity will have her on or Bill O’reilly.

  5. What possible reason would you have for doing something like this. She acknowledges that she could lose a lot. What is she possibly hoping to gain.

    • Reasons…
      One, Ax to grind.
      Two, Fifteen minutes of fame.
      Three, gin up sales with free publicity.
      Four, once Fox News picks this up and he has an interview with Bill O’Reilly she will be a national hero.
      Five, once heroine status is achieved then she will be the next Sarah Palin or a female version of Joe the Plumber.

      Anyone wanna add more reasons?

  6. Amen! Very well said. With rights come responsibilities. You are responsible for the health of your business and for the safety of your visitors. Thanks for taking your responsibility seriously.

    • Right. Because “if it saves one life” it’s worth the cost. Hey, how many Muslim-based attacks have happened at a gun range? None? Hrm. Well, I guess we should reinstate the ban on ‘assault weapons’ using the same thinking…

  7. So how do you tell what religion somebody is on sight? Is she going to interrogate every customer?

    I never understood how ISIS, for example, could apparently identify someone of the infidel variety on sight the way they do.

    Religion is all voodoo and fairy tales to me anyway so maybe I lack the churchy equivalent of gay-dar or whatever but I can’t tell what ghosts you worship just by looking at you.

    • ISIS use a similar method to the unexpected Spanish Inquisition. Basically, your neighbors rat you out as an apostate, Jew, Christian, whatever, and are thus guilty until proven innocent. They will then torture you until you confess, and then they kill you for being a heretic, or you die during “questioning”. Of course, a true Muslim blessed by the one true God would never be so weak as to expire while simply being asked a few simple questions, so obviously he was a heretic.

    • I suppose you can tell by the zebibah. That kind of devotion scares me.

      Can’t we all just get along without the need to believe in imaginary friends for adults? Let’s face it, there most likely isn’t a god and we can be good, moral people without one. No amount of faith based hocus pocus will make you a better person.

      • “Let’s face it, there most likely isn’t a god”

        Sorry, but this is unsupportable. Do you have a list of experiments that have been done that test “God” vs “No God” and the statistics justify the probabilistic statement “most likely?:

        (And, before you spout out a bunch of examples that show nothing of the kind, let me caution that I hold a terminal degree in physical science field and have a resume of research, publication and professional consultation in physical science and mathematics fields…your examples better convince me at MY level of understanding of what information is contained in the data, not some pop science, slashdot 12th grade version).

        ” and we can be good, moral people without one. “

        Again, there is no evidence to support this, certainly not in recorded human history. This is a belief of what can exist. Your faith that goodness can exist without faith to higher purpose is no different than the faith you decry.

        • Whoa, take it easy there, Dr. Mr. Prof. JR. Can I prove a negative? Nope. Do I see any evidence for the existence of god? Nope. Do I care if one exists? Nope. Do I care if you believe that one exists? Nope. Am I going to continue behaving ethically even though I don’t believe in any of this religion nonsense? Yessir.

          With that said, I don’t see how god necessitates morality or how a person cannot be moral without some higher power scaring him/her to death with eternal damnation. It’s not an easy question to answer, what is it exactly that makes us behave ethically, but it sure ain’t god. Go ahead and log into your fancy university library’s website, do some of your super duper research and look up stats on prisoners and their religious beliefs. Killers, rapists, thieves… An overwhelming majority of them are religious. That’s just one example, which I’m sure you’ll ignore.

        • “Again, there is no evidence to support this, certainly not in recorded human history. This is a belief of what can exist. Your faith that goodness can exist without faith to higher purpose is no different than the faith you decry.”

          So you’re saying that you don’t know any moral non-believers?

        • “That which can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof.”

          Gimme one miracle that can’t be explained by random chance. The first amputee that regrows a limb and I’m all about your deity. Do let us know when he does something. Anything…

        • I’m especially fond of people whose faith demands that they don’t lie to me, physically attack me, or force me at gun- or sword-point to change my beliefs. I don’t care so much about the other details of their worship. They can throw goat entrails at each other for all I care, or play with venemous snakes…on their own time and dime.

      • Let’s face it, there most likely isn’t a god…

        The five-percenters are always so loud. In any case, your specious assertion is irrelevant, and people have the constitutionally protected right to hold a belief in God, and to express that belief.

        …and we can be good, moral people without one.

        So, I’m guessing you missed the entire twentieth century? Atheism, through secular humanism, was responsible for the deaths of only about 50 or 60 million people. But who’s counting?

        • I honestly don’t care either way, god or no god, I just don’t understand the religious people’s assertion that there is no morality without god. That and the lack of evidence proving god’s existence. That’s all I said. Makes no difference to me what people want to believe, as long as they don’t harm others (although somehow this justifies for you pooling all non-believers together with some insane, homicidal megalomaniacs who may or may not have been religious).

          Could I be wrong? Sure. Your god can prove just how wrong I am by making an appearance. He could show up, perform a miracle or two, walk on water, smite me and all the other non-believers (who, for some strange reason, lead peaceful and ethical lives). Anytime now, aaaaaanytime….

        • It’s a lot more than 60 million Chip. Hitler(NOT Christian), Stalin, Mao,North Korea, Pol Pot,North Vietnam and the list goes on… And don’t forget the athiest Margaret Sanger crowd with the miracle of eugenics masquerading as a “womens’ choice issue. BTW thanks for standing up for us Christians. I don’t have the desire to debate the willfully ignorant. Pearls before swine as it were. I’ve can’t believe the vile crap coming out of peoples mouths. Oh yeah- the Revelation of Jesus Christ is NOT an allegory. There is little allegory in the entire bible except for Song of Solomon,Job and a few others. Keep up the good work.

        • I don’t have the desire to debate the willfully ignorant. Pearls before swine as it were. I’ve can’t believe the vile crap coming out of peoples mouths.

          I’m right there with you, brother. And I’m not going to debate Christianity, either – especially with self-declared religious scholars whose grasp of doctrine appears to be on par with their knowledge of history, and who evince more animosity toward Christianity than they do toward gun-control advocates or Muslim terrorists.

          I don’t see a whole lot of difference in the tactics or goals of militant atheists and those of, say, MDA or proponents of Sharia.

        • >> I don’t see a whole lot of difference in the tactics or goals of militant atheists and those of, say, MDA or proponents of Sharia.

          Do you support the use of violence against all these categories? Line them up against the wall?

        • Do you support the use of violence against all these categories? Line them up against the wall?

          Do you make it a habit of asking nonsensical, non sequitur questions?

        • Only to nonsensical and non sequitur statements and comparisons.

          Militant atheists, MDA, and Sharia:

          1) Employ ad hominem, and the Alinsky tactic of fixing and marginalizing opponents
          2) Are intolerant of holding or espousing beliefs contrary to their own
          3) Are offended by the exercise of liberty
          4) Want that liberty curtailed, to be exercised only in the manner and context that they find appropriate and/or non-offensive
          5) Want to use the force of law (and the courts) to subvert the will of the governed

          (I can keep going…)

        • You can keep going to demonstrate your ignorance if you want. A significant proportion of Libertarians are atheists, many of them militant, but I haven’t heard of one wanting the liberty of religious fundies to be fundies curtailed, or to use the force of law to subvert them. Unless it’s a “freedom” to hurt other people, that is.

        • Because Hitler was an atheist who had Gott Mit Uns on those belt buckles just to throw a middle finger at the magical sky-daddy. Right? Oh wait….

  8. Well this realm paints a bad picture. How could she say no to Muslims. Will she ask them their religion upon entering. Because all Muslims are not of middle eastern descent. Not trying to defend Islam. But Christianity has killed I am sure quite a similar amount. Religion in general can lead to strife. If I read everything that the bible says. I can beat my wife if she commits adultery. All people regardless of religion will twist holy books to justify their actions. To judge a whole people is just wrong.

      • Christians have killed in the name of Christ and to protect Christianity, as sanctioned and encouraged by the Pope. If the Pope calls for a Crusade, that is killing in the name of the Holy roman Catholic Church.

        On the other hand, Christian killing was generally confined to Europe and Palestine, while the Muslim Caliphate, and its attendant killings of heathens, apostates, heretics and nonbelievers stretches from Spain, all across northern Africa, and all the way across the Middle East east into southern India. The Ottoman Empire sought to extend its he4emony into Europe, all the way to Vienna. Modern Muslims have been killing people all across north and central Africa, the Middle East, and again all the way to the Indian border, down into Malaysia, and of course in England, France, and the US.

        • Yep, acknowledge Christ with their lips and deny him with their lifestyle, this is what an unbelieving world truly finds unbelievable.

  9. What is it with the conservative ladies that do stuff like this and their expressions. Do they go to crazy eye class? that lady that downplayed sexism in video games had the same look.

    This is stupid, lets the anti-gunners wave hands in the air about how gun owners are racist, etc etc etc.

  10. Good for her. She has a rational basis for her beliefs; not something ridiculous as baseless as anti-semitism.

    I don’t like Muslim, Islam is evil, I think most of our crime/gun problems are thanks to blacks and Latino gang members, and I don’t like homosexuals either. I don’t want to hide the fact that I disagree with these folks.

    But I’m also tolerant (meaning I put up with them and don’t treat them differently). She wants to ban Muslims, fine. It’s private property and screw being PC; we all think un-PC thoughts anyhow.

    • Well jews kidnapped and murdered the children of Christians to use their blood as part of their religious rituals during Jewish holidays so there is some basis. (…sorry, copied from wikipedia for blood libel)

      I think she has a shot at this, its not like the gay wedding photographers and cake bakers at all. The govt can’t possibly care about roadblocks to gun enjoyment.

      • They may not care about roadblocks to gun enjoyment, but they love to make examples of businesses that don’t toe the pc line on accommodation.

        • Agreed. Her FFL is definitely at risk. It has been reported her and elsewhere that the ATF has been trying to shut down FFLs all over the country, such that tabletop FFLs are nearly extinct. They’ve tried to shut down FFLs in the southwest to cover up Fast & Furious. They have arrested a gun collector and his entire collection on apparently trumped up charges of gun trafficking. Why wouldn’t they go after such an obvious target? And remember, Eric “Holder(down)” claims success in protecting civil rights–and he is still in office pending his replacement.

    • Yeah because it”s not like those who are bigoted against Jews ever based their discrimination on similar ‘reason’ (cough Protocols of Zion, Banker’s conspiracy, etc)

  11. I’m thinking there’s a lot more to this story. She has a perfect right to do business with whomever she wishes, or not. It’s called freedom of association. And the consequences of her choices are also hers to own.

    I’d like to know the rest of the story.

  12. And yet we get upset when business set up “Gun-free” zones or when Christians are being “persecuted”. The right is not immune to irrationality or hypocrisy.

    • ROFLMFAO! Seriously Jeb, you need to warn someone before you do that – I had to break out an older keyboard while my usual one dries out after I spit my tea all over it!!!

  13. Rofl here come all the folks saying she can’t do this. (Legally she can’t). Yet these are the same folks saying a business can legally stop open carry. (They legally can’t either)

    Oh baby I love irony. Now we know the supreme court will take this case and shut her down. Why does religious freedom allow them to be armed? But armed rights don’t get the same treatment?

    Let’s hear some legal reasoning. Prove me wrong!

    • I think you are confused about where people are coming from. I know I certainly don’t take all of the positions you ascribe here.

      When I have been saying that a business can stop carry, I of course have been speaking of rights, not law. A business (should) have the right to refuse service, and refuse admission, to anyone. The gun doesn’t really matter. The business should have the right to refuse people who DON’T carry, too.

      The fact of the matter is that current law forbids them to do so on the basis of religion. This law is itself a violation of rights. Furthermore, I don’t know of a state that forbids a business to stop a gun carrier and ask him to leave or be charged with trespassing, so unless you have other info, you’re factually wrong in asserting a business can’t refuse to deal with those who open carry. I am certain that you are wrong in some states. (None of the notorious ones have done so…yet. I suspect that MDA’s goal is to change that, slowly but surely, with these “requests” being the first step.)

      If the discussion seems confused, note that some people are talking about what our rights are (and how they should be recognized) and others are talking about what the law says.

    • >> Yet these are the same folks saying a business can legally stop open carry. (They legally can’t either)

      What makes you think so? The federal law that protects against discrimination by private entities specifically enumerates the things it protects. Religious affiliation is on that list, but carrying a gun is not. So yes, a business can legally stop you from openly carrying on their property, and if you ignore it’ll be trespass.

  14. How does she plan to enforce this? Muslims don’t have any identifying external features. They can lie if she asks. Is she just going to kick out anyone who looks middle-eastern? There are middle eastern Christians and Zoroastrians, among others. Add to this that most American Muslims are not extremist, murderous, fundy jihadists. This is going to be a PR nightmare for gun rights.

    • Maybe she can have them put yellow crescent moons on the left side of all their shirts and jackets.
      That seems to be a popular idea with her type.

    • “they can lie if she asks”

      Are Muslims permitted to lie?

      Summary Answer:
      Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to “smooth over differences.”

      There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam – in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

    • Seems like the point of the exercise will be to deter Muslims… pretty much the same as a public crucifixion, or the wearing of a cross.

  15. Not sorry for saying this at all — this is wrong wrong wrong. You can make the same claim about verses condoning slaughter and filicide about the Hebrew and Christian Bible. I’m out of breath explaining to people why I don’t stone my wayward child or slaughter Hittites and Amorites. Yes, there are many Muslims who have declared themselves our enemy, and it is on account of their faith that they seek our destruction. Well, there are white folks out there who call for the destruction of other races, but that doesn’t mean every white American is guilty of the same. Geez, why am I even having to type this?

    Just because something is “PC” doesn’t mean it’s 100% off base. Yeah, liberals don’t like painting all Muslims as terrorists. In this case, they are on to something.

    • You certainly are PC with your moral equivalency. Christians have not fought a religious war since the Thirty Years War. Even the Religious component became irrelevant after the first ten years. Neither Northern Ireland or the Balkans was about religion. It was about ethnic and cultural identity of which religion was a minor component.
      The only safe Muslim is one who is an apostate. There are no moderates.

      • The only good Muslim is a bad Muslim. The kind that puts bacon on his food because he’s quite certain Allah is to busy to give a sh!t. I can get behind that.

      • Of course you mean safe to others… They however will be in grave danger as apostates are ordered to be killed in the Qu’ran. Very peaceful

      • “Moral equivalency?” I did not say Islam was morally equivalent to Christianity or Judaism. I meant to say (but didn’t get around to typing) you can’t grasp the context of a religious text unless you study it in a religious community in good faith. As an example, look at all the anti-Christian atheists who “study” the Bible so they can tear it down. I do not believe Islam is “morally equivalent” to my One True Faith, but neither do I view that as a reason to shun Muslims.

        • Right after 9-11 we brought in this “moderate” Imam to help us craft messages for propaganda leaflets we were going to use in Afghanistan. He became quite famous later in the decade and received special attention from the US government in a foreign land.

        • What are you saying? That has no bearing on my response or the original statement. Just because the lefty crazies want to coddle CAIR and bad imams doesn’t make all Muslims guilty of terrorism.

        • He had no known connections with CAIR when we asked him for help. He seemed like a good guy. Guess we were wrong huh?

        • As Islam is merely a different bucket of water from the same well (Abrahamic sand-cult) the moral equivalency is rather undeniable. You do know Jesus was a “prophet” in the Qu’ran?

          The Qu’ran is mostly a retold OT, with some added admonishments to kill non-believers. And there was plenty of that in the OT.

        • To clarify the historical context of the ‘death to non-believers’ bit: In the context of the Hellenistic world, the contribution of Abrahmic religions was the concept of heresy, which was a new and radical idea for most people in the eastern Mediterranean basin. Mohammed simply declared the thing to be trump in every dispute. Passive dis-belief was no longer acceptable, the mere restraint from slandering ‘god.’ From Islam’s beginning people had to either actively believe, or “pay up and shut up,” or die. Simple. History. Rulers in the world came to love this bit. What’s not to like? Set the mandatory beliefs (including give me your money). Kill those who are heretics. Repeat.

    • If Jews today were declaring all non-Jews as “under the ban” and treating them as Canaanites today, or if the Catholic Church were declaring all non-Catholic Christians Waldensian or Albeginsian heretics and organizing crusades against the I would say they would deserve the same treatment as she gives Muslims.
      But they are not. Only Islam insists, with fire and sword, that the world tolerate it’s 13th century mentality.

    • “Geez, why am I even having to type this?”

      That sounds about like my feelings on this. It’s because there’s a lot of bigotry here. Every year (but for one) more people die in swimming pools than get killed by some sort of Islamic-themed attack here in the US, but I bet all the folks here disparaging all Muslims have no problem with a backyard pool.

      The hypocrisy is staggering but not all that unexpected. Simple people are easily scared by boogiemen. We see it on the left and this is how it looks on the right.

      • Violent extremists and swimming pools are not the same. I’m more concerned about people with ill will than I am about inanimate objects (dangerous or otherwise) with no will whatsoever. Aren’t you? Isn’t that why we’re all okay with owning guns?

        I’m not agreeing with this range owner, just taking issue with your analogy.

      • The sad part is the proportion of “yeah! eat pig Muslim scum!” posts-of-support, both on the original article, on the Facebook post, and here. It basically forces me to conclude that 2/3 of the gun community is batshit insane people whom I don’t want to be associated with in any capacity.

        I wonder what the proportion would be like for NRA members.

      • I do note that we, as a nation, have not found it necessary to spend a trillion dollars and five thousand lives abroad fighting The Swimming Pool Cult, though such a cult does, I am sure, exist. Further, I reluctantly point out that our active war in Iraq and Afghanistan had a sincere (if questionable in the minds of many) motive, preventing Saddam from sending tanks into Kuwait and Saudi Arabia again, and trying to forestall another 9/11 from being prepped in some Taliban-guarded explosives-be-we camp in Afghanistan. Perhaps I sound too strident?

  16. I am not a fan of Islam, but I find her view on Islam disappointing. There are millions who practice Islam in a way that’s peaceful. As a gay gun owner, I would be highly offended by a “non homosexual shooting range”. It is her right though to do whatever she wants with her private business and I respect that. I think my real problem with this situation is that it reflects poorly upon gun owners. We are in a crucial time with 2A rights where we need every person in the middle that we can get since the 2A is a second class right. This might be great PR for 2A rights in the midwest, but in Oregon, Washington, or Nevada something like this is hurting our fight. CA and the others are goners, but that hoplophobic attitude spreads in parts of the country we fighting for.

    *sigh*…this is definitely not what we need.

    • If you intend to visit muslim majority areas you really will need to carry because if they find out that you are gay you will be at minimum beaten and in places in the West (London’s East End for example) killed. Even so-called moderate Muslims have no trouble with the murder of gays.

      • Well that’s a load of crap.
        How many muslims do you actually know? I’m guessing somewhere between zero and none.
        I’ve known dozens of muslims. All but a few were immigrants from Asia. And those few were first generation Americans. I’ve seen them interact with christians, atheists, open gays, and women, and not one engaged in violence, or even made a disparaging remark.

        • I am sure I know a lot more than you do Perhaps you should ask a moderate Muslim what he thinks of gay people. Let me give you a clue. He won’t be a supporter of gay marriage. Perhaps you should actually read what Muslims moderate or otherwise say to each other instead of listening to PC propaganda. Many gay Palestinians have fled to Israel over the years because they are safe there. And they have been doing this long before the rise of AQ.

          Here is a relatively fresh piece of data:

        • I asked some muslims what they thought of gay marriage.
          Many didn’t have much of an opinion. One voted for it in 2012. The rest thought it should be illegal. The guy who supported it was born and raised here. The ones who opposed it were not. I think that’s a much more important factor for social tolerance.
          And there’s a huge difference between not supporting a behavior and opposing it so strongly that one would kill people for engaging in it.

          I also discovered that most people who self-identify as christians in the US oppose gay marriage as well. It Texas a few years ago, two men were arrested for sodomy. It had to go to the US supreme court. Some christians supported the law and the prosecution.
          Are they evil terrorist?

        • Well, Jason can you show me a Christian neighborhood where they declared a gay free zone and then proceeded to beat up gay people? Present me the evidence.

        • WTF do Muslims in Pakistan and London have to do with anything related to this?

          Shit, try announcing you’re gay in certain areas of the South. Christians have made it pretty damn clear what they think about gay marriage and gays in general right here at home. No, American Muslims are no worse than American Christians.

        • There’s a reason for that, at least for Christians side of the equation.

          Read the NT. It’s kind of important, too, as followers of Christ.

          A lot of atrocity has been committed in the name of Christianity. And, a lot of Christians have fought it when it happened.

          If you want to read a very interesting “story,” study Dietrich Bonhoeffer and how his views on the matter of violence in the Christian heart changed over about a decade of his life.

          Comparing what the Muslims are doing to OT references as “outing” Christianity is both disingenuous and theologically inconsistent.

        • Do you honestly think Christians are supposed to follow the Mosaic law? Maybe you should read the rest of the bible.

        • Well, some people here seem to think that if it’s written anywhere in Koran, Muslims have to be practicing it, even though many parts of Koran supersede many other parts in a way not dissimilar to how NT overrides OT.

        • The NT overrides the OT? Not according to that Jesus fellow. I posted half a dozen quotes earlier, here’s just a couple. For flavor.

          “It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid.” (Luke 16:17)

          “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.” (Matthew 5:17)

          So that guy thinks the OT laws about everything from killing gays, to killing anyone who doesn’t believe, to killing kids who insult their parents still applies. Guess y’all have a special hookup with the magical sky-daddy who gives you personal updates.

      • If you want to see moderate and liberal Muslim majority areas, go to Tatarstan or Azerbaijan.

        And no, gays aren’t being killed there for being gay.

  17. My opinion is: her business, her rules. But seeing as how her rules violate/target one of the protected classes, I see a lawsuit headed her way.

  18. Good for her! Her reasons are clearly based on research and well thought out, whether you agree with them or not. Islam is the only religion that seeks to dominate the world through conversion and commands it’s adherents to engage in violence against those who will not convert. While most Muslims do not engage in those types of acts, they certainly don’t seem upset enough to speak out against them.

    • While most Muslims do not engage in those types of acts, they certainly don’t seem upset enough to speak out against them. That is my problem with Islam, the Muslims are tacitly defining their religion as one of terror and violence.

  19. I am no fan of Islam, but The Old Testament of the Bible has some interesting passages as well.
    8 O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction,
    happy is he who repays you
    for what you have done to us-
    9 he who seizes your infants
    and dashes them against the rocks.
    But, then again, most Christians or Jews usually do not run around and smash infants heads against rocks.

    • Yeah, real Christians just go and harass soldier’s families at their funerals, bomb abortion clinics, and post “Death lists” of doctors who have performed abortions on the Internet. :/

      • Even from a right wing perspective, I never understood the Westboro Church and the soldiers being blamed for gay rights. I am hardly a right wing Christian, but if you really believe that abortion clinics are paramount to Nazi concentration camps, I can at least see the mentality of the super fundamentalists to be extreme is shutting them down.

      • I don’t even think I have to explain why your apples to apples comparison between present-day Christianity and present-day Islam is beyond absurd. Context matters.

        • Agreed. Absurd is the correct word.

          Especially given cherry picking OT passages while ignoring the New Covenant given in the NT. I find it interesting that even a lot of self-professed Christians cling to OT ideals without at least re-factoring through the lens of the NT.

          There’s historical context, too. The Leviticus laws were written to build a social system from literally nothing. The Hebrews had been slaves one day, and ‘free’ the next. They went from total dependency and virtually no social structure of their own to having to invent one overnight.

          They wrote some rules to help that process. It took a while, but eventually when it was examined, it was noted (in the NT) that those rules were not consistent with what Jesus was saying Man’s relationship with God was supposed to be.

          Picking OT while ignoring NT while trying to make some point about Christianity is…as you said…absurd.

    • I’ve read the Koran. The issue isn’t whether Chrstianity and Jusaism contain instances of violence (they do), it is a matter of proportion. In the medinan verses, there is a LOT of violence… more than the old and new testaments put together. And the Koran is WAY more explicit in its commands (establishment of religious government, death to non-muslims) than those other two religions.

      These things matter. Let’s have a little thought experiment:

      You snap your fingers and create three islands in the middle of the pacific. Conditions on each island are the same. 1000 babies are dropped onto each. The babies are all taught the same basic skills and are taught to be literate but beyond that they receive no ideologically influential educations (i.e. history). The only variable is that the children on the first island are given bibles, the second are given torahs and the third are given korans.

      30 years passes. Now, what percentage of each island will be radicalized, i.e. eager to use violence against the other two islands?

      I won’t say my guess. I only ask that each person reading this read the Koran and then answer for yourself. If you haven’t read the Koran, then don’t flame me. If you have, then please help me to better understand what I have read.

      • Well, let’s be a bit more exact here.

        Drop the 1,000 people onto the islands as you proscribe, but let’s put all the theological books that are the foundations of the various religions on the islands.

        That means Christians get the Bible.
        That means the Jews get both the Torah and the Talmud.
        That means the Muslims get the Qur’an, Hadith and Sira.

        The Hadith is essential in the Islamic understanding and formation of sharia law, and the Sira is used to form ROE for battles with apostates and the kafir.

        The central mistake that people make in trying to understand Islam is that reading the Qur’an is sufficient to gaining insight into how Muslims should comport themselves. It is necessary, but not sufficient.

      • Don’t you love it when non-Muslims go around telling actual Muslims what real Islam is? I got news for all of you who are in high dungeon over this. Radical Imams may not have it quite right but they are much closer to the essence of Islam then anybody here.

        • For the record, I am not trying to tell anyone (muslim or otherwise) what islam is. I am just a lay person who decided to read the Koran (which is a brutal read, by the way). However, I think you may have misunderstood me. I believe you and I have drawn the same conclusions.

        • Hal:

          I was not being critical of you or saying that you were telling Muslims what Islam is. I think we are indeed on similar pages.

        • It was listening/watching Youtube vid’s of “radical” imams that taught me the Qur’an is insufficient to understanding Islam.

          Islamic scholarship is a fascinating diversion. Unlike Christianity, there really was no central “authority” like the early Catholic church who laid down what was canonical and what wasn’t.

          Lots of what is regarded as Islamic doctrine wasn’t written or spoken by Mohammed, but was written by contemporaries or those who were quite young when they met Mohammed – and sometimes even a generation removed. When, in the Sira, there are accounts of how Mohammed behaved, those accounts might well have been written by someone who wasn’t an eyewitness or even alive when it happened. Yet, because the actions written therein are attributed to Mohammed, they can be considered a proper behavior for Muslims in a similar situation.

          Fascinating stuff, really.

    • It’s been a long time since I’ve read the bible, but it’s worthwhile to know that it’s has two phases, Old testament and new testament. The new testament is relatively thin in comparison, but this is the part that the majority of the basis for Christianity comes. That is because it is the part in which Christ is in.

      Many people wish to use the old testament to discredit the Christianity. In my reading I’ve found that the old testament contradicts itself. Thou shall not kill on one page and thou shall not suffer a witch to live on the next. However I did not find the same in the new testament. Although revelations stands out as a piece that doesn’t seem to fit as well.

      • You make a very good point about Christianity and since Christ is the fulfillment of the promises made in the Old Testament his teachings modified and superseded certain Old Testament teachings notably the more violent passages. It annoys me when secular anti-Christians selectively quote from the Old Testament. Even in the Prophets much of the harsh language is put aside.

        Revelations is an allegory. Nothing is literal in it. Martin Luther was loath to include it in the Canon but he felt that since it was place there in early Church councils that he could not omit it.

        • “It annoys me when secular anti-Christians selectively quote from the Old Testament. “


          It is patently nuts given Christ is actually in the name of Christianity and his teaching did not even appear, eh hem, until the NT.

          It’s an example of disingenuous ‘analysis’ trying to pass as scholarship. And logic. It would be akin to saying Navier-Stokes equations cannot be solved (even for select cases) because you can never have a number less than zero (as children are taught for the “whole number” set).

          The defined set (in a math sense) matters. Christianity by definition includes more than the OT. To Christians, everything in the OT is interpreted though the global lens of the entire Bible.

      • The commandment is “Thou shalt not murder”, not “Thou shalt not kill”. Murder is the unlawful, unjustified taking of a life. There are some situations where killing is acceptable and necessary and is not against the laws of God.

        So, is there a difference between murder and killing? First, it is important to note that not all killing is wrong. For instance, the apostle Paul talks about the right of the state to take the lives of evildoers (Romans 13:1-7). This relates to what is commonly referred to as capital punishment. Most countries have consequences for murder. In some cases this requires the life of the perpetrator and a suitable means of putting one to death is chosen and administered (Matthew 5:21; Exodus 21:14). Another instance of acceptable “killing” is that which is done during times of war and at the command of superiors. There were quite a few instances in Scripture where God endorsed and allowed the taking of other lives (1 Samuel 11; Judges 6–7). And finally, although far from acceptable, manslaughter is yet another form of killing someone. This unintentional act apparently happened so often in biblical times that cities of refuge were designated for the manslayer to seek refuge in (Exodus 21:13; Joshua 20). Again, it was never God’s intent to have to use such a drastic measure as taking one’s life to rectify a situation. So, God does make exceptions for the taking of another’s life as long as it lines up with His will. However, premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will.

        • You should try reading the rest of the Bible, not just cherrypicking those parts that align with what you want it to say…

          You should not let a sorceress live. (Exodus 22:17)

          Whoever strikes his father or mother shall be put to death. (Exodus 21:15)

          They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13)

          Suppose you hear in one of the towns the Lord your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the Lord your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the Lord will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The Lord your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

          One day a man who had an Israelite mother and an Egyptian father got into a fight with one of the Israelite men. During the fight, this son of an Israelite woman blasphemed the Lord’s name. So the man was brought to Moses for judgment. His mother’s name was Shelomith. She was the daughter of Dibri of the tribe of Dan. They put the man in custody until the Lord’s will in the matter should become clear. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Take the blasphemer outside the camp, and tell all those who heard him to lay their hands on his head. Then let the entire community stone him to death. Say to the people of Israel: Those who blaspheme God will suffer the consequences of their guilt and be punished. Anyone who blasphemes the Lord’s name must be stoned to death by the whole community of Israel. Any Israelite or foreigner among you who blasphemes the Lord’s name will surely die. (Leviticus 24:10-16)

          The Lord then gave these further instructions to Moses: ‘Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever. It helps you to remember that I am the Lord, who makes you holy. Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy. Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community. Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest. I repeat: Because the Lord considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.’ (Exodus 31:12-15)

          There’s a dozen more, and Jesus said that the OT Laws are in full effect until the end of all times…

  20. Muslim free zones won’t be any more effective than gun free zones.

    In fact, all she’s doing is inviting the radical fringe of the American muslim population to murder her, which they very well might do after this. Although they might find that shooting up an American gun store is just a wee but different than shooting up a school.

  21. Why not call it “radical-Islam-free zone”? That should not offend moderate Muslims. And the ACLU, DOJ, EEOC would think twice about fighting for radical Muslims’ rights to use a shooting range

    • The ACLU successfully defended the rights of the American Nazi Party to march in Skokie, Illinois (which at the time had a high concentration of Holocaust survivors). Until a radical Muslim commits a crime and is convicted, he has every right as any other person who lives here.

  22. Like it or not, certain Muslim groups have declared war on civilization. I wouldn’t be concerned at all if a Sufi, Druze or Nizari Ismaili mosque opened down the street from my home because I know those people to be decent and peaceful. Kurdish Muslims also seem to be good folks. As for much of the rest, I am highly suspicious and would prefer to have nothing to do with them for the duration of the war.

    • Ralph:

      The three variants of Islam you mention are all considered apostates in Muslim dominated regions and get the standard treatment.

      • Absolutely correct. Which is why I don’t trust the rest. They seem all too willing to kill their Islamic brethren, especially those who just want to get along with everyone.

    • Most Kurds are actually mainstream Sunni Muslims of the Shafi madhab. This is the same Islamic school of jurisprudence (as in, interpretation of Koran and Sunnah) as in most of Middle East, including e.g. Egypt, Jordan, Yemen and Palestine.

  23. I’m really trying to think of something to say about how this isn’t how she should handle things…but Crom is telling me to stay indifferent to this and to laugh at the Four Winds.

  24. She could have accomplished the same by making it known that all guns she sells are wiped down with pig fat.

  25. Ms. Morgan seems to think that Islam and the Koran has somehow cornered the market on preaching hate, intolerance and killing in the name of God. I suggest that she also read her Bible:

    Deuteronomy 13:6-16

    6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, 7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), 8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. 9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. 10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery. 11 Then all Israel will hear and be afraid, and no one among you will do such an evil thing again.

    • @jamesfromlakegeneva

      Indeed. Like most people who have “read” the Bible, she probably skipped over those parts. You can read pretty much any religious text and cherry pick some pretty deplorable quotes from it. I guess she missed the parts of the Koran which prohibit any harm done to Christians & Jews… all “Religious extremists” -no matter which sky-faery they call their god- are the problem.

      This is a publicity stunt. The inevitable protected-class discrimination lawsuit probably won’t be worth it in the long run.

      • While all the religious books have some terrible things in them and I’m not a fan of any, the Qu’ran has a lot more and the followers tend to take them a lot more seriously.

        But I agree with you that this is purely a publicity stunt.

        • “has a lot more” is hardly the sort of absolute statement that makes it reasonable to discriminate against all adherents of a religion. So how much is acceptable? Only that contained in Christianity? That plus 3?

    • And let us not forget that Moses and his leading General engaged in genocide in the Promised land to rid the land of all other tribes. It is detailed in the Bible.

    • The key to understanding this issue is knowing that the Old Testament law was given to the nation of Israel, not to Christians. Some of the laws were to reveal to the Israelites how to obey and please God (the Ten Commandments, for example). Some of the laws were to show the Israelites how to worship God and atone for sin (the sacrificial system). Some of the laws were intended to make the Israelites distinct from other nations (the food and clothing rules). None of the Old Testament law is binding on Christians today. When Jesus died on the cross, He put an end to the Old Testament law (Romans 10:4; Galatians 3:23–25; Ephesians 2:15).

      In place of the Old Testament law, we are under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is to “love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind…and to love your neighbor as yourself” (Matthew 22:37-39). If we obey those two commands, we will be fulfilling all that Christ requires of us: “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments” (Matthew 22:40). Now, this does not mean the Old Testament law is irrelevant today. Many of the commands in the Old Testament law fall into the categories of “loving God” and “loving your neighbor.” The Old Testament law can be a good guidepost for knowing how to love God and knowing what goes into loving your neighbor. At the same time, to say that the Old Testament law applies to Christians today is incorrect. The Old Testament law is a unit (James 2:10). Either all of it applies, or none of it applies. If Christ fulfilled some of it, such as the sacrificial system, He fulfilled all of it.

      “This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). The Ten Commandments were essentially a summary of the entire Old Testament law. Nine of the Ten Commandments are clearly repeated in the New Testament (all except the command to observe the Sabbath day). Obviously, if we are loving God, we will not be worshipping false gods or bowing down before idols. If we are loving our neighbors, we will not be murdering them, lying to them, committing adultery against them, or coveting what belongs to them. The purpose of the Old Testament law is to convict people of our inability to keep the law and point us to our need for Jesus Christ as Savior (Romans 7:7-9; Galatians 3:24). The Old Testament law was never intended by God to be the universal law for all people for all of time. We are to love God and love our neighbors. If we obey those two commands faithfully, we will be upholding all that God requires of us.

  26. Let’s go with no. Like, seriously, no. I think Islam is a fundamentally false religion, based on a lie; but I don’t support discrimination of Muslims. I think this action is abhorrently against the principles of equality and peaceful cooperation. The Government is 100% obligated to sit back and do nothing, and I like it that way. Doesn’t mean I approve of what she’s doing.

  27. It’s her business so whatever…but I think this is idiotic. Discrimination on the basis of religion is wrong. I’m a deacon for a PCA church in the Austin area (Presbyterian Church in America) and I’ve been pretty active in organizations that protest the current oppression of Christians in the middle east (it isn’t just ISIS, by the way). If it’s wrong for Muslims to oppress adherents of other religions in the middle east, it’s wrong to do this in the United States. I wouldn’t patronize this business, and I’m not afraid if Muslims in the U.S. arm themselves and go to shooting ranges to practice. Why not? That’s what I’m doing…

  28. I offered my opinion to a friend the other day that what we are seeing as extremism is actually orthodoxy, closer to what the Prophet espoused 1400 years ago, and the progressive Islam, much like Christianity and Judaism has changed and become more “passive” if you will. That being said, progressive Islam, to me, is the minority.

  29. Not a smart business decision. It would be easier to declare it a private range with a membership requirement. Create a membership committee that decides who can be a member. Provisional memberships can be handed out with a sponsorship from a senior member who can vouch for the prospect. This strategy would allow the range to mitigate risk by limiting access to safe shooter with a clean background.

  30. Please stop with the “Oh this makes us look bad” dribble. There are people that will look at her actions and blame us. But it happens that they already hate us, and would still hate us if this press release had never been issued. And anyone who lumps all pro 2A supporters together as anti muslim crackpots is no different than someone who, say, lumps all muslims together as anti american terrorists. Her actions only reflect on you if you support them.

  31. Here is my idea and it would not impact anyone`s business although it would be hard to enforce. Ban members of Moms Demand, CSGV, Brady Campaign, etc from entry. It would be worth it just to piss off members of these groups and it would be perfectly legal.

  32. Lady i wish i was close enough to support you, dont worry about what all the liberal trash will say, they have done enough damage to the country.

  33. Hmmm…it won’t reflect on OFWG’s like me. I see her point and I am no fan of Muslims. But unlike some of you I DO know some Muslims. My wifes half-assed Black Muslim relatives my kids doctor, the Saudi guy at the gym and others. SOME I trust-others I have NO clue what they would do. This lady can do whatever she wants but hey don’t call it a public range. Is she gonna’ defame Muhammad at the door to vette her clientele?

  34. now lets all try not to sound like racist conspiracy laden xenophobes.

    she can do what she wants, pretty bad light to put yourself in.
    I am curious how they plan on enforcing it since we have had and probably will continue to have white middle class kids join islamic terror groups. those individuals probably ignore the who lying is bad thing, much the way they ignore the killing muslims is bad.

  35. Okay, she’s a flaming bigot. Now watch the media, without any sense of irony, use her bigotry to paint all gun owners as such.

    • So what.

      Islamists are taking heads right now, right here. There’s nothing that the media can say that will make that truth go away.

      • One nutjob who attacked people at the place he was fired from. If this was a white guy with an AR shooting up a UPS he was fired from, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

  36. Wow, I didn’t expect to see so much Islam love here. I wonder if it will make a difference to the person beheading you. Maybe they’ll suddenly realize how accepting you’ve been and they won’t kill you. I doubt it, but you never know.

    • Some of us, many whom have actually fought people who wanted to kill them before, are willing to differentiate between those and the people who just believe in a different supposedly holy book. We’ll fight the former and not actively make enemies of the latter. But I suppose such ‘thinking’ is too hard for some.

    • Been visiting for a couple of years now, and it is beyond doubt that TTAG is the most inclusive & multicultural 2A website out there.

      If you’re comfortable at the range with the bearded guy in the kufi cap next to you blasting away with his AK/AR, then you are a tolerant & openminded human being.

      I think the range lady should set out plates of crisp bacon for all firers. Oh, and I wish her success.

  37. She should have the right to run her business in whatever idiotic, myopic way she sees fit.

    But here’s a quick rebuttal:

    1) The christian bible, the jewish torah, and several other religious texts have violent passages. They all come from very old cultures.
    2) Sure…just like Shannon Watts is constantly threatened by gun bullies. Anyone with internet access should get at least five hollow death threats a day.
    3) What about Adolf Hitler, Charles Manson, and Tim McVeigh? Does that mean all self-proclaimed christians are evil murderers? I say “self-proclaimed”, because their actions were very unchristian.
    4) That’s a good reason, except for the lie about the religion (an abstract concept) “commanding” things. Some people in that religion might. Most do not. But if her customers are uncomfortable, she should make them comfortable to get business. But I seriously doubt any of them give a rat’s ass about the religion of the guy in the next lane. They’re probably more concerned about muzzle discipline and trigger discipline.
    5) Again, abstract concepts can’t make demands. She’s still alive though, so apparently people are ignoring those commands, or they don’t exist outside of her paranoia.
    6) Black people, of various religions, in Africa are threatening to kill Americans. Latinos (mostly christian in South America) are threatening to kill Americans. White Americans (the KKK and Neo-Nazis) routinely threaten to kill Americans. In the recent past North Koreans have made such threats. Being successful and powerful makes Americans a target for lots of threats. Is she banning blacks, latinos, whites, and Koreans?
    7) That would be a great reason, if she had a reasonable suspicion the person might use the gun for evil. But as we all know, very few American guns are used for evil.
    8) Except that it’s not. The Nation of Islam isn’t a mainstream muslim group. It’s a American black hate group. Islam is a religion, not a political theory. There are muslim republicans in this country (I’ve met some). A muslim’s religious views influence his political ones, but the same can be said of any religion, or lack of religion.
    9) Except this is a very extremist belief that is rarely used today. In China couples will sometimes drown baby girls, because they want a boy. Shall we add the Chinese to the growing ban list? And the christian bible still has a part about putting adulteresses to death. Let’s ban them, too.
    10) I’d love to see a source for that number. It sounds as made up as a stat from Shannon or the Brady Bunch. If we include war deaths as murder (which she must be…and then still exaggerating), christians murdered almost 200 million people in the 20th century alone. Another point for banning christians?

    Discrimination is evil. It’s this sort of “you’re different, I hate you” attitude that creates wars in the first place.
    Perhaps she should stop studying islam, and study some christianity. Particularly the parts that stress love, tolerance, and understanding.

  38. A friendly reminder:
    You are not a racist if you don’t like Islam, whose god Allah declares that death is befitting of the ‘crime’ of homosexuality. Because a religion is not a race.
    An Islamaphobe? Eh, whatever. I am a cultaphobe. Guilty as charged.

    • “You are not a racist if you don’t like Islam, whose god Allah declares that death is befitting of the ‘crime’ of homosexuality. Because a religion is not a race.”

      I’m sorry, were you talking about Islam or Christianity/Judaism? Sorry for the confusion, both say the same thing in their source text.

  39. This PC business is getting old. If you don’t like her views don’t spend money there. I guess we really don’t live free with the home of the brave.
    People better wake up. I for one think she has more guts to stand up for her beliefs than most of the basement commando’s wining on here about “What this looks like to non gun owners”. Pretty soon you won’t have a 2nd amendment to worry about. The Boston Tea Party was nothing compared to the daily overreach of our government, yet we worry about hurting someone’s feelings. Get informed and involved in the real world of politics and make a change for the good in this country. I for one would love to stop off and use her gun range if I were coming through town. She may be the only one that has your back someday.

  40. For all her talk of the separation of church and state I wonder how she feels about it when it’s Christianity.

  41. After reading the headline, my eyes rolled so hard that I have a headache now.

    Painting people, religions, governments, etc… with wide stripes due to a small minority of people must be a great hobby. You can do it all day and it is free.

  42. How on earth does she know with any certainty who is a Muslim? Additionally, if she’s right about this ideology (and she is, btw… peaceful Muslims, and there are surely peaceful Muslims, are peaceful to the degree that they disregard the explicit teachings of the Koran), will this not endanger her customers rather than protect them?

  43. Ex muslim here.

    I’m sad to see this day come, but TTAG had been showing signs of it all along.

    People just cannot separate Islam from radicals in their minds and it’s because of ignorance.

    I’ve seen all the dumb anti-muslim arguments here already, and I’ve learned to just walk by since no one ever listens to me, but given such a radical step as this ‘ban’, I’ll drop my four cents in on the main points the gunstore owner and others make about why all muslims are evil.

    1) Most muslims are peaceful. 1.5 BILLION muslims exist. If even 0.1% of them went bad, that’s 1.5 million Jihadists. There are not that many Jihadists.

    There’s more chance of running into a bad cop than a bad muslim.

    2) Muslims fight their own extremists all the time. There is a long list of DEAD muslims killed by Jihadists for opposing them. ISIS was beheading moderates and secularists before it beheaded any Americans. Extremists killed popular secular leaders like Benazir Bhutto and Anwar Sadat. Yes, extremists are throwing acid at school girls, but it’s muslim parents who sent those girls to school in the first place! And the school girls outnumber the extremists by a whole lot, so what does that tell you about the average muslim over in the desert?

    3) The Quran is full of violence. So is any number of religious text from Marx’s declaration that the revolution would require the blood of the Bourgeois to the Old Testament declaration that a woman had to marry her rapist, to the New Testament Jesus declaring that people had to hate their parents to follow him and that he ‘brought a sword’.

    Different people take different things seriously. Most muslims are like any other religious group: They just ignore the stupid bits and carry on with it.

    4) I am not lying to you. This is the part that gets me steamed everytime. ‘Muslims are allowed to lie in defense of their faith! You just don’t want us to know your real agenda’.

    Man, fuck that. That’s a circular belief right there and you need to realize that. It’s like if some Scientologist says, well, Dianetics says that thetans will possess my friends to turn me away from the truth, so all that stuff you tell me about how corrupt scientology is must be lies.’

    If you don’t think a muslim can tell you the truth, then a, you’re a bigot and b, you’ve basically decided not to consider evidence anymore.

    • Well said! There will always be a small percentage of wingnuts in any group that turn to violence in the name of _____. The simple fact is most of these critics know nothing about other cultures or have lived in a muslim country NOT in a time of war.

    • “Ex muslim here.”

      I hate to tell you this, but you just identified yourself as an apostate.

      The Qur’an says you should be put to death. Inshallah.

      • And yet I walk among muslims every day and the strongest reaction I’ve ever gotten when they find out I’m not one of them is a lecture on the need for God in my life.

        Most just treat me with amusement.

        Say, the Bible has a passage about stoning adulterers. Do Christians in America do that case by case, or do they organize one large mass stoning every couple of months or so?

        Also, just so you know, the Quran says nothing about an earthly punishment for Apostasy. The verse is open to interpretation by all, but it seems to be saying, ‘you’ll burn in hell’ to most modern scholars.

        • “And yet I walk among muslims every day and the strongest reaction I’ve ever gotten when they find out I’m not one of them is a lecture on the need for God in my life.”

          I get the same as an ex Christian. Religions are religions and these bigots refuse to see the plank in their eye while calling out the speck in others’.

  44. I am conflicted on this one. On one hand, I admire her hutzpah and her interpretation of the Koran is certainly one shared by the radical groups she decries. On the other hand, if you want justice in the world, it has to be justice for everyone, all races, creeds and colors. Otherwise, what you want is not justice, but something else. And there are 2.2 Billion Muslims in the world and only a tiny fraction who are jihadists. They are the second largest faith category in the world. So the effect of attacking Muslims unjustly is to radicalize more of the 2.2 Billion and keep the escalating the violence.

    I take the point that Jews and Christians, as well as Buddhists, are currently not into systematic violence, but as a Christian I have to admit that groups have historically used Christianity as an excuse for systematic violence, from the Crusaders up to the KKK. So I don’t think our historical hands are clean.

    So what to do? I think we have to keep concentrating on the radicals and keep a peaceful hand out to the moderates. There is another interpretation of the Koran that has jihad as more of a personal allegory for spiritual development and not a prescription for violence. I choose to believe in and support that view. I believe “we attract what we radiate.”

    • I am greatly relieved that a small number of Muslims are radical like maybe only 1%.
      That leaves only a mere 22 million to worry about.
      Not a problem.

  45. Mr. Garrison: Not all Muslims are terrorist.
    Eric Cartman: No, but most of them are. And all it takes is most of them.

  46. Once again, there is no such thing as bad publicity as long as they spell your name right. What do you think her (very vocal) actions will do for her business?

  47. Not helpful to our cause, IMO. The same people who say that whenever a(nother) Muslim commits an act of terrorism, that we cannot judge the whole religion by that, who bend themselves into pretzels to point this out constantly (and I do agree with it), will be the ones to want to use every crazy gun owner to stereotype all gun owning citizens.

  48. Anyone who believes in an imaginary being in the sky that controls everything and sees everything does indeed have a mental disorder and should be evaluated by a professional checking for their propensity for violence towards others.

    • I would counter by saying anyone who believes that an organ as complex as the eye could have slowly developed through random mutations and stuck around through natural selection is crazier. Unless an organism somehow magically generated an entire, intact eye, the half formed, useless organ it would have have actually had would not have been beneficial and would not have survived natural selection.

      Also, animals can be seen time and time again avoiding any abnormalities in their own kind for reproduction purposes. This kind of disproves natural selection.

      All that said, I think people who take a 3,000+ year holy book as the truth, all while patently ignoring portions of it and also ignoring entire books that were not included are equally nuts.

      We’re all nuts.

  49. While I feel her frustration and anger at the effed up tactics of these jihadists I have to think that saying publicly that she is going to discriminate against everyone who happens to be of a particular religion isn’t going to fly. It may be true that she can refuse to serve certain customers out of concerns for public safety singling out an entire religion will probably land her in hot water. She probably should have kept her mouth shut and just given some other reason for not accepting the business of anyone she suspects being Muslim.

  50. If she has a sign up that declaring the right to refuse to anyone at anytime then I think she is in the clear. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV.

    Still won’t stop people from trying to sue or other legal means to harass…..

    • Religious discrimination in public accommodations, like restaurants, hotels and, yes, gun ranges, violates Federal and state laws.

      Private groups can and do legally discriminate based on religion and other prohibited categories provided that they have minimal contacts with the general public. Her range is probably a public accommodation, so discrimination based on religion would be illegal.

  51. The problem she’s going to have is that she banned an entire religion full of people who are not part of the extremist crowd who perpetuate these crimes. That’s like saying ban all Germans or people with shaved heads due to the Nazi crowd: it’s patently flawed. Not all Germans or people with shaved heads try/tried to exterminate the Jews. Not all Muslims are violent, and there are plenty who don’t give as much weight to the militant part of the Koran as the other more peaceful parts.

    If her business dwindles it will be her own fault.

    • Who here knows what the Koran, Hadith and the Sunnah are?
      Have you read them?
      Bonus points only for the last two.
      If you don’t know all three and have negative comments about this woman,
      find out what they are and read them or STFU.
      Hate to go Goodwin on you all but not all Nazi’s were SS or Gestapo.
      Most were good old Wehrmacht and many of them not even Nazi’s.
      But then again there was a problem with the ideology their guns brought to the world, wasn’t there?

  52. Will patrons be required to eat bacon to prove that they are Muslim? If so Jews will not become either since they can not eat bacon.

  53. Meh. I personally I think this broad is an idiot. She probably thinks this will score her points with her version of God and that’s more important to her than the money she’ll lose (that much I can respect, in the abstract at least). But when you’re sacrificing this-worldly benefit for next-wordly reward, you might want to be a little bit more exacting and nuanced in your analysis of what will get you the desired outcome.

    Or maybe she’s just one of those see you next Tuesday types and wants to fame.
    Either way, not my cup of tea.

    That said, I don’t think she should lose her business, at least not because of the State. To put it bluntly, and I say this as a Hispanic, married to a Black woman, who has Jewish family members (my mother’s aunt and cousins) and Muslim relatives (wife’s in-laws):
    Anti-discrimination laws are plainly stupid.

    No private business should be forced by the state to provide goods or services to anyone they don’t want to.

    If you don’t like gay marriage, your bakery shouldn’t have to make a wedding cake for Rosie O’Donnell.
    If you hate/fear Muslims, you shouldn’t have to rent them guns and range time.
    Can’t stand men? You should be able to ban them from your womyn’s only book store.
    Adolf Hitler is your idol? Why should you have to cut around someone dude’s pe’at?

    If the discrimination you want to engage in is suffuciently distasteful, you’ll probably go out of business anyway. And if it isn’t, if your business can thrive by creating a niche market for people want to eat at the ‘Kill Whitey’ vegan cafe (specializing in gluten free crackers) so be it.

    Who the eff cares?

    Whatever “harm” would come from that is far less than the harm created by allowing the state to tell private business owners that the only acceptable worldview is the one the state says is OK.

  54. Lovers going to love, haters going to hate.

    I’m a believer in the Constitution and the first Amendment reads

    “The United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion, impeding the free exercise of religion, abridging the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning”

    Discriminating on the basis of religion makes you unAmerican – so she hates America as much as she hates Muslims. Discriminating on the basis of individuals actions is a whole other story though.

    • The actual text of the First Amendment:

      “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

      That’s a limit on government power, not private citizens.

      What this woman is running afoul of is the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

      While I agree that discrimination is 100% unamerican and even anti-American, it’s not unconstitutional. And it shouldn’t be illegal, even if it’s deplorable.

      Morality should never be dictated nor enforced by the government.

    • Actually, we are in the process of establishing Islam as privileged religion and most our readers seem to accept it. It’s ok to bash Christians and Jews but you are bigot if you speak the truth about Islam. Every person who tries to justify Muslims bad behavior by saying Bible promotes violence accepts the superiority of Islam.

      • And? Ever heard of the marketplace of ideas?
        If that’s how our society feels, who are you to tell then they can’t?

        We are also living in a time where any criticism of gays makes you a retrograde bigot. I disagree, but that’s the culture.

        We also live in a country where criticism of the Israeli government will get you branded as an antisemite. Again, I disagree and think that’s way too simplistic.

        But I’m in the minority, so I can either accept that and move on or I can bitch and moan about the good old days when more people agreed with me so America was better, lol.

      • td, I wouldn’t go as far as you, but I do think that there is presently in America a concerted effort to suppress Christians and Jews. It’s everywhere, not just in D.C., but also in the states, public education and the media.

        You won’t see any anti-Islam behaviors from Washington etc. because even politicians, school administrators and “reporters” would prefer to have their heads remain attached to their scrawny necks.

  55. Private business owners are free to do whatever they wish.

    I would advise the madam to take some time to read a few choice passages from ye olde christian bible. I’d start with Leviticus and work my way back. A LOOOOOOOOOOT of murder, rape, prostitution, slavery, and incest in that one too.

  56. I used to be religious, then I used to be anti-religion, and now I’m neither. I do know that no religion can automatically make a person evil, just like no religion can automatically make someone good.

    All of the major spiritual texts can go tit for tat with violent hateful passages, and the vast majority of people who subscribe to these texts choose not to take these passages literally and still better, consider them in a historical context, not in the present day. Christians, Jews, Hindus and even Buddhists have all superficially justified war and terror with a popular regional religion at different times in history, but the underlying motivation was ALWAYS the same political BS that it’s always about; Power, greed, wrath, pride, envy, land, resources, etc. Religions are just effective excuses for recruiters paint on these things to try to get the local people behind their cause.

    This woman is ignorant. I understand why she feels that way she does, but she’s ignorant.

  57. I think this person is doing everything right. Go have a read over at barenakedislam one of these days.

    • Don’t limit yourself.

      You should head on over to the stormfront forums. Lots of people there can learn you about all them mud races and their evil overlords, the joos!

  58. Double Ugh…

    I mean, I get it, but in what world does she believe that this will accomplish anything positive to any end?

  59. I’m embarrassed to share a common hobby with this girl.
    That said, who am I to say what she should or shouldn’t do?

  60. Really disappointing to see the bad press we are going to get for this. So many good victories over the last couple of years and now we have to fight stereotypes from bigots like this. So sad at the harm it brings to our sport, so sad of the ignorance…

  61. I agree with her, this country take absolutely NO measures to keep them at bay even tho they have vowed to destroy us from within. This is just common sense to me, like it not muslums are the ones cutting off heads and terrorizing the world, that makes them the enemy, to let the enemy move into your house and make him comfortable is nieve and stupid!

      • ARTIST: Julie Brown
        TITLE: I Like Them Big and Stupid

        When I need somethin’ to help me unwind
        I find a six foot baby with a one track mind
        Smart guys are nowhere, they make demands
        Give me a moron with talented hands
        I go bar-hopping and they say last call
        I start shopping for a Neanderthal

        The bigger they come the harder I fall
        In love ’til we’re done then they’re out in the hall

        I like ’em big and stupid
        I like ’em big and real dumb
        I like ’em big and stupid

  62. Who here knows what the Koran, Hadith and the Sunnah are?
    Have you read them?
    Bonus points only for the last two.
    If you don’t know all three and have negative comments about this woman,
    find out what they are and read them or STFU.
    Hate to go Goodwin on you all but not all Nazi’s were SS or Gestapo.
    Most were good old Wehrmacht and many of them not even Nazi’s.
    But then again there was a problem with the ideology their guns brought to the world, wasn’t there?

  63. The beautiful hypocrisy; spree shooters aren’t representative of gun owners thus we can’t judge gun owners by the behaviour of spree shooters. Can we apply tha logic in regards to muslims? No we cannot for some reason.

    Also, really good idea of her to use a biased and hateful site to inform herself. It is like reading up on black people on the KKKs site.

    • I use Saudi web sites for my research but come to many of the same conclusions that she has come to because the Saudi sites are also honest.

  64. Well now.
    Seems Jan was once a TTAG irresponsible gun owner of the day.

    I would link to it, but it’s gone down the memory hole.

    From the Google cache:

    “Great pro-2A stuff. BUT—skip to 3:00. “And you’re aiming it at me,” one of the Politichicks mentions to her Glock-toting guest, with entirely understandable apprehension. “It’s empty,” Jan Morgan replies proceeding to show that the weapon is clear. How reassuring. And that clearing process? WAY too perfunctory for me. And even for those who think it’s OK to laser someone (including themselves) with an empty gun Morgan’s safety check is WAY too late. Four rules to unite us all people. Four rules.”

    Let’s say I’m not surprised this idiot is, well, an idiot. On multiple fronts.

    Your range isn’t unsafe because Muslims, Jan. It’s unsafe because you.

  65. Well, few decades ago, there was business closed to some religious people: Jews. Today, it’s Muslims, but that’s not any different.

    Sure this is her right to do so… that’s just how it actually does start. If someone today would say he/she will close his/her business to Jews or Christians, it would go crazy on TV, saying it’s anti-Semitism and/or anti-American.

    This just gives a really bad view on gun owners and somehow in Americans in general. Nonetheless, some people would even go further saying Jan “Morgan” might just be a jewish name and would prove the hate of jewish Americans against Muslims.

    To me, this is just as bad as what Nazis were doing back in WWII, discrimination for religious beliefs.

  66. Ugh…

    I just read the comments on the IGOTD post. The most recent one is from earlier this month.
    That means my benefit-of-the-doubt assumption that it just fell off because it was a couple of years old was wrong.

    RF, dude, did you really delete a previously critical post about this person? For what reason?

    And here I was thinking TTAG’s claims of journalistic integrity were genuine.
    Joke’s on me.

  67. This is either a thinking issue or she is a provocateur. Of course, the letter also indicates the former. And it is for sure illegal.

  68. I will not agree or disagree with the author. What I will ask the POTG here, because I have not seen it in the comments yet, is what about all the sexual abuse in the Catholic church? To me it is a form of terrorism just as killing innocent people. I have issues with all religions and people that consider themselves religious. Just food for thought. FYI: I grew up Catholic, and I am an Iraqi Freedom and Enduring Freedom veteran. I despise Islam and I do not associate with Muslims… Hell, I get mad at my mother-in-law (Christian) for praying before dinner every time she comes over.

  69. I find the defendant guilty of unlawful overuse of elipses. The defendant is hereby ordered to hire a professional to write their policy statements.

  70. So, this seems like an interesting take on the rather heated private property rights vs. equal protection rights some of us were having the other day, with respect to the right to keep and bear arms vs. trespassing.

    While I sympathize with her reasoning, I don’t believe that she has legal justification to implement such a policy in a public business.

    • I notice that the most adamant arguments against her “right” also come from the same group that supports legal infringement to my right to carry into certain businesses or public venues. It seems that whatever the legal system churns out regardless of morality or logic, a certain group of people will defend that law. The same people bashed Shaneen Allen for “being too stupid or lazy to read up on NJ law”. I don’t have the desire nor the time to read so many laws. If I did, I would read three more and become an attorney.

  71. This is about as BS as the logic of banning gun owners from an establishment. After all 100% of people who shoot someone are in the possession of a gun.

  72. I drive through Hot Springs all the time when I go on leave.. will definitely stop by and see what they have to offer.

  73. It’s a private business so she should have the right to exclude anyone she wants. Whether excluding people based on a group is smart or not, or the right thing to do, is another story.

  74. People come in units of one, not in homogeneous groups. To study any religious book that is subject to varying interpretations and apply your own interpretation to all followers of that religion is intellectual laziness. Christians disagree, often vehemently, on topics like abortion and homosexuality. Opposing sides each cite scripture to justify their positions. There is no reason to expect Islam to be any different. A few days ago, ISIS tortured and executed a female civil rights lawyer who, I expect, was also a Sunni Muslim. Which of them is the stereotypical Muslim — ISIS or the woman? The realistic answer is neither because, no matter what you pick for a stereotype, there are individuals whom it does not describe.

  75. I wonder if they will include white supremacist, members of the Aryn Brotherhood, KKK and Neo-Nazi types that twist the words of Christianity and do unspeakable violence toward their fellow man?

  76. Sometimes that windmill is just not worth tilting against. She will be sued into oblivion by the government and she will lose, without a doubt.

    So, as much as I think she has a moral right to do this, she certainly has no legal right to do so and it seems pointless to challenge the law so sloppily and ineptly. Her incompetent challenge of the law will result in it being strengthened.

  77. Check out a book by Walid Shoebat, he says he is a converted Jihadist. After reading his book, “why we want to kill you: the jihadist mindset and how to defeat it”, it only confirmed the training we started getting after 9-11.
    The imams called for a holy war against us, Israel, and well, pretty much anybody who is not of their faith.
    And to be a true believer, you MUST support the jihad through prayer, contributions, or through fighting/martyrdom.

    Interestingly, a fatwa was issued by Wahhabi sheikhs temporarily allowing homosexuality during the jihad.

    Food for thought.

  78. She has the right to refuse service to anyone she wishes. In her case, with her business being guns, she has a responsibility. If a person gets drunk and leaves a bar, drives a car and hits and kills a person, the bar tender/owner can be held accountable. I don’t see a difference here. Personally, the way things are going, I don’t feel safe around any Muslims. I don’t care what they claim. All of the terrorists involved in the 9-11 attacks, their neighbors said they were so surprised because they seemed like such nice people. You see all the time how Muslims appear so nice, then you find out they beat their wife because dinner was on the table at 6:01 instead of 6 sharp. I don’t trust them. Period.

  79. The answer to this woman’s dilemma is that Arkansa needs to pass a law that if you want to practice a religion you fill out an application and submit it to the county sheriff. The sheriff will review the application to determine if you have a need to practice a religion and also to verify the religion you want to practice is on the list of state approved religions. If denied you may appeal the decision to a board authorized only to deny appeals.

    • Are you proposing an Assault Religion Ban?

      Hm… that idea might have merit. We all want to ban the so-called “evil green faith”, but unfortunately the color alone cannot be used in such a manner – and in any case, those sneaky bastards might change it. Let’s see if we can come up with some identifying features of the followers. For example, a beard protruding conspicuously beneath the head of the person, or a covering attached to the hair of the person that partially or completely encircles the hair.

  80. It’s sad that such flagrant expressions of discrimination have become socially acceptable in our country. What’s even more saddening is the number of individuals who readily express their solidarity with this hate-filled agenda.
    A sad day in America indeed.

  81. So… I have taken some time to deliberate the range owners argument and disagree for the following reasons:

    A) She cannot enforce her rule. She can post a sign that says no Muslims allowed in which case Muslims can ignore it. Or she can interrogate or turn away people that “look” Muslim. Either case isn’t going to work to her satisfaction.

    B) She can say they are a theocracy all she wants, but it does not pertain to all. Just like in Christianity and Jewish beliefs, some feel the new testament replaces the old and some look only to the old testament and some actually look at both. There are a wide variety of different sects and beliefs. To say if you are this you are that is not sound logic when it comes to religion and applying blanket statements over massive numbers of people from all different cultures and countries.

    C) Personal responsibility. Regardless of what they believe – actions are what is important. They can believe Americans are infidels all day and i’m fine with that – until they behead someone, etc. That is the moment they have broken the law, that is the action which should not be tolerated. Just because one Muslim does it – doesn’t mean another Muslim will. She is arguing that these Muslims over here are terrorists – so i’m going to ban all Muslims from my shop. It is really not sound logic.

    D) Intolerance and Pre-crime. Making a statement that Muslims are not allowed at her range because they believe in violence and the Koran promotes violence does not in fact mean that a Muslim person who walks in their store is a violent person or will do violent acts. Either she is discriminating and intolerant towards Muslims or she actually believes pre-crime will work.

    Intolerance: Discrimination and intolerance might feel good but it really has no place in terms of reasonable justifications. Maybe she doesn’t like Muslims because some Muslims do bad things. I don’t like anti-gun people because some of those anti-gun people are gun control activists. If I was a grocery store owner, it doesn’t mean I should refuse a person service because they are gun or anti-gun people. I should not put up a sign that says no gun people allowed or put up a sign that says no anti-gun people allowed. Simple discrimination.

    Pre-crime: She makes the argument of why would she give a gun to a guy who wants to kill her. Firstly, if he wanted to kill her he can achieve that end by many different means – better means than renting a gun from her. Secondly, she is trying to prevent action A by means of banning possession of object A or banning action B. Banning objects is what gun control is all about and we all know it doesn’t work. Also, we all know that criminals don’t follow the law so banning action B in attempts to prevent action A is also not going to work.

    People should be punished for their crimes on an individual basis. Not for crimes others commit merely by means of real or imaginary affiliation.

    • “People should be punished for their crimes on an individual basis. Not for crimes others commit merely by means of real or imaginary affiliation.”

      Then why do we have gun free zones?

  82. Islam is not a religion. Yes, I have studied the Qur’an and history, both at length. Islam has always been about subjugation of any who refuse to submit. I refuse. Period. Full stop.

    And yes, I do know Muslims, in America. First generation immigrants came here to escape the terrorists, second generation generally don’t care about Islam, third generation seems to jump on the crazy train and want to bring militant, fundamentalist Islam to America and throw down our laws and Constitution. Just observations from reality, and yes I know they will not be welcome.

  83. I’m just going to comment on a few things people have said. I don’t think any religion, race, or nation is completely innocent of committing atrocities against other human beings. Someone brought up “stoning a child” in the Bible, and said time is irrelevent. Wrong! This world is a lot smaller then it used to be. Instead of the rights of a race, religion, or nation we have morals, or rules on how to treat people, called “human rights”, that the majority of this civilized world agree on. Of course stoning someone would not be accepted in todays society. The problem is we have millions of these radical Muslims, or terrorist, and I’m not saying every Muslim is a terrorist, although probably 99% of terrorist are Muslim that don’t believe in these human rights and go around killing innocent people, women and children included. I think every nation on this planet, including and especially the Muslim countries who proclaim not to agree with these pieces of crap say “Enough, that’s it” and with the military backing of say the U.S., Britain, Israel, China, and Russia, and take these f%$#*&s out. With a force like that it would be like Desert Storm, 3 days, it’s over! Terrorist eliminated. I know, I know, but it sure sounds nice doesn’t it? Terrorist casualities-400 million, Ally casualties-23.

  84. I applaud her for her stance and if we lived in a free country everything would be fine for her. Problem is, we don’t live in a free country, therefore she will suffer the consequences of such.
    She was (rightly so) given the option of not serving muslims under the ATF guidance of “comfortable with…”, but she needed to do so quietly and everyone would be happy, the “oh so ” tolerant left and the court systems, problem solved. No muslims served “legally”. However she didn’t do that, instead she took a public political stand based her on feelings and I see nothing wrong with that, but i believe in personal freedoms. As far as the left now having something bad to say about gun owners, God fearing, America loving people, don’t worry about it, they would just make stuff up anyway, truth is of no importance in their minds, so no harm done.
    I could never be muslim, to have a God that can’t do his own dirty work well, that is not much of a God. Not to mention if a God can’t do his own dirty work how you think he is going to the good stuff promised? If your God is so insecure he can’t handle people who don’t believe in him what kind of God is that? Not much of one, and a God that only Loves some people and wants others killed by the ones he loves, no thanks, although this could be a good liberals God cause they love causes that don’t add up. IMHO

  85. This is ignorant, hateful, drivel. I’m no fan of Islam because it requires belief in incredible claims without any credible evidence. Just like all religions. The idea that someone is less capable of responsibly handling guns because they believe in the less objectionable parts of the Koran is no more or less ridiculous than the same said about those who believe in the less objectionable parts of any religious text. The fact that it may make her other customers less comfortable is commentary on her customers, not Islam. Most aggregated religious texts both condemn and condone violence. None of them make any sense. Get over it.

  86. How about all of you politically correct people that support the muslim religion, pack up yourself and your entire family and move to the middle east and support the muslim population

  87. Don’t worry guys, Christians, Pagans, Jews, etc. have never killed anyone in the name of religion!

    I think she is a jack ass but I believe she has a right as a property owner/business owner to deny service to any clientele she sees fit.

        • How stupid of me! I guess I was blinded by all the tolerance taught by from my gay black liberal professors and second hand pot smoke I inhaled from my days in college and forgot that all Muslims are the ‘problem’.

          I’m about to make a sea change argument then in regards to gun violence; all gun owners are the problem!!!!!! Since you know, criminals who use guns criminally are gun owners so… DOTS connected! All gun owners are the problem!

          Give me a break. You guys aren’t being much better than anti gunners with your tenuous logic. It scares you, you have no idea how to address the greater issue (terrorism not Muslims), there is no apparent solution, and there is no apparent way to figure out who is a terrorist so you start categorizing and demonizing to give you something to go after. It’s not the religion’s fault, its the institutions that support it and use it to justify an ends through violence, persecution, and subjugation.

          Maybe one day I’ll be proved wrong and I’ll think “that guy with a cat picture avatar was right, it WAS the religion.” Maybe one day you’ll be proved wrong, who knows. What I do know is that it could just as easily be Christians or Pagans doing the same thing but for how events in the past have transpired and the course of history ha unfolded; once change to the the past and things could be much different. And do you know how I know that it’s equally possible? BECAUSE IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED THROUGHOUT HISTORY.

          Again, I don’t agree with this woman, but she in my opinion as a business owner has the right to deny her business to any individual she sees fit; I just think the methodology she is employing to determine who that is is flawed.

        • Someone else could use similar logic to ban black people by claiming that it is impossible to tell the difference between black gang banger and law abiding black people.

        • She could use similar logic to ban black people by claiming that it is impossible to tell the difference between gang bangers and law abiding citizens. She could also ban Hispanic people by claiming that it is impossible to tell the difference between law abiding citizens and gang bangers.

          There is no limit to the discrimination that she can do though she may be violating state laws by doing so.

  88. I like her desire to do something about terrorism because the people we keep voting into office cannot seam to put together a half baked plan. But she has once again became a great example of someone who is blinded by bigotry. Not all people following the Islamic faith want to kill Americans, not all people following Christianity want Americans to keep living. This is reverting back to when we locked up the Japanese because we were afraid of spies. This kind of behavior just breeds hate, and hate breeds hate until there is no one left to hate.

    This kind of behavior is something we need to use sparingly and with skepticism. Instead of spending your time “studying the koran” and placing blame on a religion that has been twisted by radicals we need to place blame on radicals and those that support them. If we want to make our families safe we need to begin electing leaders that will stop catering to the ones that cannot keep up, both inside and outside our borders. Stop micromanaging the citizens and allow people to do what they want within the bounds of local and state laws. Let countries defend themselves from their enemies. If we decide to help them then we need to bring them under our wing, and we need to stop cowering because the world may think us mean.

    If someone is harboring terrorist they are as bad as the terrorist or are better off dead then living in the pain and fear that they are bring forced to live in. Instead of beating around the bush and avoiding stepping on toes lets be America. The country that said no to great Great Britain and then against all odds had the bite to match our bark. Instead of every thing being white guy black guy its an american. This goes both ways. The United states has lost its cohesion and its individuality because we have let petty things get in the way of believing in america. We let something someone said or did generations ago, or across oceans still cause a rift between us.

    Remember the twin towers? That attack was not done by Muslims hating america. It was done by warmongers wanting to see death and to rule over us with fear. It was not just Americans that died in the crashes that day. It was the twin towers because America was the best target to send the message that they can get anyone at anytime. We need to send the message that we don’t care that they can swing a stick around, we, as Americans, need to let them know that we, as Americans will go get a bigger stick and make them and the countries that harbor them suffer.

    We are just to scared to make people unhappy, we are to scared to look at what needs to be done to solve problems. we are to scared to take the time to elect the people that will actually help the country, and so we settle for the one that promises us the most and we get nothing but the things we hate from them. This is the american peoples fault and we need to do something about it. But this is not what we should do.

  89. Must say this post has drawn quite a few ‘trolls’. Do not see how what this woman is doing hurts the image of gun owners. This is nothing more than an American business woman that reads and watches the events happening around her and is trying to protect herself, her patrons and the business she owns. When you have Americans going to Syria and blowing themselves up in the name of jihad, you have to assume they wouldn’t mind killing a few infidel Americans at home. More proof, the beheading of an American woman in Oklahoma, Ft. Hood, yea I know, both work place violence. Bullshit!!!! If it wasn’t a 2 day drive I would come to your range every weekend. Have a place for overnite shooters?

    • Right. Because a Muslim extremist who decides to blow her range up will, of course, announce upfront that he’s a Muslim – and immediately turn around and leave as soon as he sees the “no Muslims” sign at the door. Just like we all know that “no guns” signs stop mass shooters in their tracks.

      This is not even to mention the idiocy of the notion that a range would be a target of such people in the first place. I can picture Ahmed thinking, “hm, I want to kill as many people as possible, insha’Allah, so I need to go someplace crowded and tightly packed, with as little cover as possible, and where people wouldn’t think of trying to stop me or have the means to do so readily available… gee, how about a shooting range!”.

      • “Because a Muslim extremist who decides to blow her range up will, of course, announce upfront that he’s a Muslim”

        Yes, they will, because they do, you willfully stupid f**k.

        • Probably more than your average poster here, seeing how I donate to organizations that deal with that kind of thing.

          How many boys have you saved from male genital mutilation in the USA?

        • Good for you. I would be directly involved if I knew someone who was personally affected.

          On a side note, what does FGM have to do with Islam? You are aware of the fact that this is a local tribal custom where it’s practiced, right? And that it’s practiced regardless of religion (i.e. Christians there do it too)?

        • You admit to giving money to terrorists who are muslim. No need to admit that, already figured it out, skippy.

        • Relevant fact: female genital mutilation is also practiced by many Christians in central Africa as well as other parts of the world. It is not a Muslim thing, it’s an ancient tradition thing. It’s more or less a Central African thing.

        • You lack the capacity to contribute meaningful discussion, so you entertain yourself by being generally disagreeable and making baseless declarations. I’m sorry things in life have gone so far down for you that you need to use tactics like this to find any value for yourself. I understand you won’t consciously comprehend what I’m saying to be true, but I want you to know there is more for you as a person out there than trolling discussions this way. I’m sure there is plenty more in your life you could be proud of, if you acknowledge your self-hatred and make a conscious decision to reject that hatred.

          Good luck to you.

  90. LOL what a fucking ignorant twat.

    She should ACTUALLY read some passages in the Torah/Talmud and the Old Testament.

    Just another self-righteous, clueless, imbecilic ‘my God’s better than yours’ theocratic cargocultist who deludes she’s not one.

    An Omnipotent God or God(s, if one prefers), does not need some asinine self-declarative moron to speak for him/her/it/they, because an omnipotent entity doesn’t give a fuck what an ant ‘thinks’ on his/her/its/their behalf.

    Just words, until some human asshole decides to use those words written by other humans to justify & rationalize their native Malum in se impulses.

    It’s the fucking year 2014, as in the 21st century. Yet, the moron twat is using the same fucking ‘rationale’ that the clueless hoplophobes have been using: Guns, in it of themselves are EVIL!! OMG!! OMG!!!

    Gun = Tool
    Words = Harmless graphic doodles scribed on various media, or uttered artificially aurally, or organically orally via a set of biological organs to create vibrating, propagating frequencies

    A human, whom INITIATES aggression, not in defense, against another human using that said tool called a gun = assailant

    A human, whom INITIATES aggression using those said words to justify their violence against another human being = assailant

    kinda clear. or at least should be, especially to a gun owner who considers herself ‘informed,’ but obviously practices cockroach reductionist sophistry as her personal operative daily ‘logic.’

    Why have some within my country and culture come to celebrate, and/or hold pride in publicizing their own clueless individual imbecility??

    Why oh why??

    • And yet another terrorist supporting stupid twat toddles through to spew its anti-American sh*t. Good job, Buddy!

  91. Yeah, if the two guys she cites didn’t know enough English to communicate, creating an unsafe environment or not following range rules, they shouldn’t be allowed in.

    Anything beyond that, to blindly label a group, is crazy. I’m a Muslim, love my country, pay taxes, and follow laws. Spend plenty of $$ at local ranges shooting my five guns, participate in competitions. Makes me kinda mad she uses an incident that’s more about range safety to form a policy that’s unrelated.

    At a couple ranges I’ve been to, saw Dutchmen and Japanese that came to the range as a sort of tourist attraction before they go back since civilians can’t use firearms in their country. They had no idea how to handle, but range officers had some patience, did some hand-holding so they can have a little fun and leave. Yeah ranges could institute a strict language policy or required safety assessment/drill before allowing on the range, but so much of their business is impromptu/one-time visitors that harms the business model. At least around here.

  92. Her problem isn’t necissarily going to be her anti-Islam stance… It’s going to be her ability to disern who is and is not a devote of Islam. Is she going to ask every patron that wants to frequent her business? Have them sign an affidavit attesting to their religion? Ban every person appearing of middle eastern decent?

    Yeah, best of luck on that.

    • indeed; irony of ironies, if one were to go by look alone, Jan Morgan herself would qualify: with her 1980’s thick make-up and tacky tan, she actually look like many Muslim Arab women I’ve seen IN Middle East, not to mention, shh… she may also be mistaken for an illegal if she ever came by border states in FEMA region 6 & 9!


      then again, it it her private property. she can do whatever the fuck she wants. and any equally ignorant FUDD can decide to patronize her biz or not; let her succeed or survive in the free market. like anything, those who do support her ideology, however ignorant, can, or others who don’t, can choose not to and take their biz else where.

      regardless what she seeks to enforce is equivalent of TSA ‘logic.’ Like as if a real ‘terrorist’ will wear ‘Terrorist’-patch, and walkthough the line with a deadman’s switch, what, she’s expecting every Muslim to look like a TV/film/MSM-propaganda version of a ‘muslim’?? it’s just PR bluster, assuming such PR still works in her neck of the Ol Slick Willy’s stomping grounds.

    • Ignorant people with guns are what keeps me worried. They are so convinced of the need to fight against imaginary demons they will enforce bigotry and hatred until good people finally get pushed into making bad decisions. They’ll create the demons they want to fight, and then say “HA! I told you the demons were real!”

      • “fight against imaginary demons” So now you claim muslim terrorists are imaginary. Okey dokey then. We just have to ignore all those imaginary car bombs, kidnappings, rapes and murders. Got it.

        • Catholic priests have a significant reputation for immoral acts against children. But it would be absurd to ban all Catholic priests from being on grade-school property because of it.

          Right now some people who claim Islam as their religion are doing bad things with guns in the name of Islam. It’s absurd to ban all Muslims from a gun shop because of it. Especially in an area that has had no reported Muslim extremist violence.

          Nearby areas to Hot Springs HAVE had reported KKK terrorism (a group that touts itself as representing proper Christian values), but nobody is banning white people from lumber shops after somebody burned a cross in another person’s yard.

          Your suggestion that my reference to “imaginary demons” included actual terrorists is either extremely ill-thought out, or intentional trolling. It was quite clearly referring to the notion that all Muslims are potential terrorists. Particularly American Muslims.

          Did you really not understand that was what was being said?

        • Yes, you equate muslim terrorists with “imaginary demons” and follow it up with yet another defense of muslim terrorists. muslim terrorists who daily rape, sodomize, torture, starve and murder muslim children and women. You. Keep. Defending. Them.

        • >> muslim terrorists who daily rape, sodomize, torture, starve and murder muslim children and women.

          You keep claiming that all Muslims are terrorists, though. So what you’re saying then is that some Muslim terrorists rape, sodomize, torture and starve other Muslim terrorirsts? Why does it bother you so much?

        • Until Muslims round up and kill the terrorists in their midst you are just blowing smoke up your own a$$. Just keep defending muslim terrorists, its all you got.

        • Let me break this down for you real basic like:

          People who conduct terrorism are terrorists. People who do not conduct terrorism are not terrorists. If a Muslim, Christian, or any other person of any other faith (or lack there of) conducts terrorism, that person and anyone working with them are terrorists. People who are of the same faith (or lack there of) but do NOT conduct terrorism, are not terrorists.

          Do you understand? Sometimes bad people do bad things in the name of their claimed religion. And other people who claim the same religion say it’s bad to do those bad things, and denounce the groups doing the bad things.

          I know it’s hard to understand, but unfortunately this world is not just black and white.

  93. You know what this has done? This whole situation with the shooting range? It’s put an idea out there that probably nobody thought about previously. This was likely never a risk, until somebody suggested it. Now it’s kind of… why not? What relatively few terroristically minded folks there are here in America could have just gone for a cafe, or a Church. But now they have some other locations on their radar. Good job!

    Know what it won’t do? Stop it from happening. The only people it would stop are people who didn’t want to shoot you anyway. People who were going to shoot you won’t care that they are banned. Or will specifically target the place because of it. Way to ban people who weren’t going to hurt you while doing absolutely nothing to stop those who were!

  94. she should look into how many people christians have killed over the centuries , makes the muslims look like they’re playing catch up.

      • Which part of that was a lie exactly? That Christians have killed? Or that they have killed more than Muslims? Because if it’s the first part… well you’re just being ridiculous. If it’s the second part, there is plenty of data out there to support Derek’s claim.

        • You just can’t stop spewing that lie, and defending muslim terrorists. You are a seriously sick f**k.

        • You lack the capacity to contribute meaningful discussion, so you entertain yourself by being generally disagreeable and making baseless declarations. I’m sorry things in life have gone so far down for you that you need to use tactics like this to find any value for yourself. I understand you won’t consciously comprehend what I’m saying to be true, but I want you to know there is more for you as a person out there than trolling discussions this way. I’m sure there is plenty more in your life you could be proud of, if you acknowledge your self-hatred and make a conscious decision to reject that hatred.

          Good luck to you.

      • Spot on Derek. We could make a list Christian and Muslim atrocities done by adherents to their respective religions and against one another. Muslims are playing catch-up in several areas but here is the rub. Thank God for secular rationality via the 1st Amendment. The 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion largely put an end to Christian vs. Christian violence here in America. In recent history the only C vs. C violence has been Catholic vs. Protestant in the streets of Belfast which the Sunni vs. Shia violence in Iraq parallels. It is not about Religion, it is about Control.

        • Really? So you are yet another defender of muslim terrorists. Howard Zinn is a liar, you repeating his sh*t makes you a liar.

  95. Okay, I get all this anti-Muslim rhetoric and guilt by association mentality. I am of a younger generation so I have no experience with this and as for the generation that could answer my question they are getting fewer and fewer. So my question is back during WWII with the Japanese internment camps and hate against the Japanese I see the argument that we may have been right at the time but wrong in the long run. Are we in the same situation now?

    • I am not of the generation you are requesting reply from, but I would like to present an argument that the only way we were “right at the time” would be because we didn’t know any better. It was an expression of our faults and failings that led us to make a decision like that, not an expression of our honor.

      But we do know better now. If we make the same decision again, with history as our teacher, then there will be no good justification for it left. It will be willful hate and ignorance, rather than the erratic flailings of a young nation trying to get a grip on something they’d never faced before.

  96. The only insight is muslim terrorists are rounding up their own children and women and raping, sodomizing, torturing and murdering them. Why do you and others insist on defending them? Simple question. Just answer it.

    • You lack the capacity to contribute meaningful discussion, so you entertain yourself by being generally disagreeable and making baseless declarations. I’m sorry things in life have gone so far down for you that you need to use tactics like this to find any value for yourself. I understand you won’t consciously comprehend what I’m saying to be true, but I want you to know there is more for you as a person out there than trolling discussions this way. I’m sure there is plenty more in your life you could be proud of, if you acknowledge your self-hatred and make a conscious decision to reject that hatred.

      Good luck to you.

      • Oh, and pick a usename and stick to it. using suckpuppets just emphasizes your inordinate lameness.

        • You’re the one that suggested I was using various usernames. I should think you’d have that list.

        • Matt, I have already formally asked Robert to censor one of 2horel9’s comments and Dean took care of it. I think 2hotel9 had no intention of adding anything to this conversation unless he can call people names like libtard, slut, c*nt and a few others as used above. 2hotel9 would probably find a more receptive audience at a Stormfront forum that TTAG. This is a pretty well played out subject and I will ask again for Robert or Dean to close the comments off, if possible.

  97. Never give liberals, terrorists or other radicals (and their lawyers), dedicated to the downfall of America ammunition to destroy you or your business. The ACLU must have speed dialing CAIR and other Muslim Organizations hoping they would sponsor a lawsuit against your business. Terrorists know the best way to defeat real America is via using our democracy and laws against us.

    • “Terrorists know the best way to defeat real America is via using our democracy and laws against us” And that is precisely what has been going on for decades, our enemies using our laws to f*ck us..

      • I thought you were a common troll, but after looking you up online your responses are consistent. You really believe the crap you say.

        How can a mind be so small as to say such ridiculously unfounded things? I mean you honestly have no evidence for anything you believe. I could cite source after source after source to defend my beliefs… but you… you have only what pappy told you, don’t you? You’re pure redneck… all bark and no bite. Your kind are cowards. PURE cowards. You say the word patriot but are completely devoid of understanding to its meaning. I had no idea your kind still existed in such a tiny, pathetic manner. It’s ending though. The time of the proudly ignorant is ending. And that’s what you are. Ignorant and proud. That’s why you don’t talk about facts. You talk about your “feelings”, but you couldn’t back any of it up.

        Go ahead… call me more names. Say I’m a terrorist lover or whatever else you like to say. It’ll only reinforce what has already become incredibly obvious. You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. And you never have.

  98. I wonder if LEOs will be prohibited from frequenting this place while on-duty and/or in uniform since frequenting such a place would not look good for the departments. How would fellow LEOs respond if an off-duty officer is turned away due to this policy? Would this place be boycotted by law enforcement?

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