We now know that teenager Michael Brown punched Ferguson, Missouri police officer Darren Wilson hard enough to inflict a fractured eye socket. Police sources told foxnews.com that Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious by Brown.” In all likelihood, Wilson’s injuries caused a concussion. A brain injury. Which means Wilson may have been suffering from Post-Concussion Syndrome when he opened fire on Brown. “The condition is associated with a wide range of symptoms,” wikipedia reports, “physical, such as headache; cognitive, such as difficulty concentrating; and emotional and behavioral, such as irritability.” Substitute the word “aggression” for “irritability.” injuryresrouces.com describes the after-effects of traumtic brain injury (TBI) this way . . .
Associations between TBI and neuropsychiatric disorders have been recognized for many years. Aggressive behavior is one of the most socially and vocationally disruptive consequences of these neuropsychiatric disorders. Aggression endangers the safety of patients, families, and caregivers. It may prevent patients from receiving the care that they need and disrupt their rehabilitation process. Estimates of the frequency of aggressive behaviors during the acute period after TBI have ranged from 11% to 96% . . .
calder.med.miami.edu offers a list of symptoms. Anyway, Wilson’s beating certainly affected his ability to process information when Brown turned to face him after the initial fight. As would the inevitable disorienting effects of a gunshot at close proximity. This would seem to be potentially exculpatory information in Officer Wilson’s favor, possibly explaining his actions if in fact Brown charged him as has been reported. Hopefully, we will learn the exact circumstances of the entire incident.
Um, So what!?!?! If the officer was punched hard enough to have a concussion than he had every right to open fire on him.
Not necessarily. Depending on the state laws, the police might only be able to respond with a similar level of force (e.g. night stick or taser in this case).
But if Brown was advancing toward him, and he was at a diminished fighting capacity, due to the injuries Brown already inflicted, then it would help his argument of justification.
300 lbs. of blubber bearing down on you puts a different perspective on things!
Michael Brown was anything but blubber!
The gentle giant in action.
you so full of shit just shut up thats hella rude, The kids dead and all you have to say is negative stuff about him what about the only guy that didn’t live through the incident, He shot him 6 TIMES there is no excuse for that, that excessive so either way he could be put away so get ya shit straight dumb ass.
Did you come to this website to learn the truth about guns or just to to be a fool? You have a lot to learn based on your ignorant statement. All you have to do is open your mind, close your eyes and imagine yourself being beaten to death. Then imagine you have a gun to defend yourself. You shoot twice and the threat keeps coming. You shoot two more times aiming center mass again and it appears you missed, however, your shots all hit but the threat ignores the non lethal hits and continues toward you. Closer now, you take sharp aim at the head. It is your last resort. You gave verbal warnings before to stop that failed. You shot the threat four times that failed to stop him. He could have given up and lived (in prison). You fire two last times. The threat falls at your feet. Your emotions are high even feeling anger that the dead man on the ground forced you to shoot him. You wanted to shoot him less than he wanted to beat you to death and in the end, all sane people defend the choice you were forced to make.
I know years ago the whole equal force nonsense was on the books in many places, and since then they have been rightly done away with, much like the duty to retreat laws. As far as I know the vast majority of states have done away with them, for civilians and cops, which includes Missouri. Unfortunately as someone below corrected me, there still are a few places with those laws on the books. Either way being jacked in the face that hard, possibly multiple times, is certainly reason enough to defend ones self with a weapon regardless. There’s no need for a pseudo medical explanation. I’m pretty sure if anyone of us had been attacked in such a manner, self preservation would kick in and we’d all have done the same as the officer.
when i took my ccw class back in 07 or 08 they didn’t exactly say “equal force” but they told us basically we didn’t want to shoot anyone unless they were armed.
glad “they” have realized that a law abiding citizen has no duty to engage in fisticuffs (out of sport..i guess?) with a bad guy just because said bad guy doesn’t have a weapon
It’s should be pretty clear to everyone by now that Wilson did what he had to do to try to do his job, and just survive the attack.
Total BS. If some penetrates my environment (house) like this punk did to this officer (his cruiser) and he struck with such force as is described then it is meet your maker time douchy.
Quite true. In fact, it’s explicitly written that way in the statute:
Missouri Revised Statutes, Chapter 563
Defense of Justification
A person may not use deadly force upon another person under the circumstances specified in subsection 1 of this section unless…Such force is used against a person who unlawfully enters, remains after unlawfully entering, or attempts to unlawfully enter a dwelling, residence, or vehicle lawfully occupied by such person
A person that large, striking to the face, is using lethal force.
He was NOT “unarmed”.
Yep plenty of people have died or become vegetables from blows to the heads/concussions without even fracturing bones.
As more an more evidence comes out it makes the whole “gentle giant minding his own business” story sound more and more like a crock of shit.
Agreed. If I was hit like that, I’m clearing leather. If I was an officer, I’m making a felony arrest.
He was NOT “unarmed”.
Yes. He went from unarmed to potentially armed the instant he went for the officer’s firearm.
Gun Retention 101.
A fist striking with enough impact to fracture an orbital is potentially lethal force. There’s no escalation from that.
Also an officer (or anyone for that matter) does not want to get beaten into unconsciousness by a criminal, as being helpless against someone who has just committed multiple felonies is generally considered a poor strategy.
Not to mention that Brown had went for his gun already AND that Wilson knew (description) that Brown just committed a strong-armed robbery.
Put you self in Wilson’s place….A 6′ 4″ 300 lb MAN (18 can vote, be drafted, tried as an adult) who just robbed a store violently, pushed you back into your car, pounced on your face, and tried to get your gun is now running at you……
I would have kept shooting until he dropped.
It’s amazing how we can have such completely different pictures of what happened. Please point me to a correcting source if I’m mistaken, but I was under the impression that the officer had no idea who this guy was at the time of the incident.
…I was under the impression that the officer had no idea who this guy was at the time of the incident
According to Officer Wilson’s account (first-hand and second-hand, multiple sources), when he first encountered Brown, he merely told them to get out of the street, and then went on. After he went on, he heard the BOLO on the radio, and realized that the perp descriptions matched the two men he had just encountered. At that point, he reversed his vehicle to encounter them a second time, under reasonable suspicion of matching the description he just received (including physical appearance, and carrying the contraband). At that point, when he attempted to exit the vehicle, Brown assaulted him.
“respond with a similar level of force”
There is no such law in any of the states. Thank god.
Exactly. Any law or expectation of that would lead to the death of self defense out side the home.
Err….”post concussion syndrome”.. refers to a specific set of symptoms -days to WEEKS- after a head injury….
There is no need to concoct some goofy medical diagnosis for the shooting…..
Getting whacked hard enough to break the bones of your face is enough to:
A) kill you,
B) make you unconscious/unresponsive
Any/all are justifiable reasons to shoot.
Yes and NO. There is a described phenomenon wherein people IMMEDIATELY after sustaining the head injury become agitated, aggressive and possibly violent.
I’ve seen it first-hand.
No kidding. I would get pretty agitated and violent if somebody beat me about the head too.
Misnomer. It’s thought to be the result of a contusion to frontal regions responsible for executive function. It’s not an emotional reaction. It’s organic. Much in the way people with frontotemporal dementia have drastic personality changes – such as becoming assholes.
Out-of-control criminal thieving punk weighing 300 lbs charging like a madman, I don’t GAS about injuries, self defense says ice the prick. Chances of any manner of conviction if both parties were white is negative numbers. Conviction of anything including jaywalking is pure racism
It sounds more like someone is trying to float a possible defense for Darren Williams, just in case he is politically charged with use of excessive lethal force. This sounds like something I would expect from a defense attorney who is trying to get his criminal client out of a manslaughter rap. This strikes at the heart of the blather from the anti-gun types who ask, “Why can’t the police shoot to wound or disable?” This is five kinds of offensive, as it attempts to excuse the violent actions of the supposedly innocent, “gentle giant.”
Here’s the what, BoS. If this case goes to trial — which it will if those two POSes Nixon and Holder get their way — the defense damn well better put on more of a case than simple justification. This case is even more political than Zimmerman’s, and I think that the officer might want his life back, which Zimmerman will never have. So if the defense leaves any stone unturned, the next person that the officer will need to shoot is his own counsel.
I don’t know if the medical evidence is there to present a defense of post concussion syndrome, but if it is then the defense better present it.
You make a good point, might as well stack the deck.
That’s the defense lawyer’s Job #1.
Oh look, a real life and amazingly relevant example of life threatening injury due to a single punch. Synopsis: Unconscious for 3hrs, eye socket fracture, fractured jaw and emergency surgery to save his life. The ref would later go on to permanently lose sight in that eye–
So yeah, Tex. I’d say joe officer is perfectly justified to deploy his firearm after receiving a beatdown from another 300lb+ 6ft human being.
Oh, wait. Are we still playing the “if that’s what really happened” game? Because, you know. If that’s what really happened.
but but but… it’s impossible to kill someone without a gun! Deadly force can ONLY be gunfire. The liberals said so!
Hell, this blog would lead you to believe so, but only if the police are involved.
The injury thing can help, but its not even necessary. The man suffered a surprise devastating attack in which he almost lost his gun and a round was discharged. He(and you) would have every reason to believe that if Brown attacked him again, he would certainly loose the gun in the second attack. At this point he has no logical choice but to assume that if he looses the gun, it will be used against him. IE: Green light for the officer to shoot.
Don’t like getting shot? Don’t try to disarm police officers. Or anyone for that matter.
Post concussion syndrome is a long term condition not instant.
Yup. This is not relevant to the shooting. Nor does it need to be.
The officer was beaten badly but his duty and training required making a felony arrest.
Given the shot placement on Brown, that’s pretty damn good aim for someone with a brain injury… Hmmmm….
The final shot was within three yards, just like 90% of all gun fights.
Why wasnt injuries of officer not given right after incident???????? Why did it take seven days for that major part of evidence to be reported? I think we all know why if we just think! Yes they made it up to save his ass! In the video he was clearly walking around the body back in forth perfectly fine not holding his face for haven been punched servely in
@rightisright, what video?
Maybe you watch too much CSI?
Investigations aren’t conducted in public. The first responsibility of investigators is to ensure the integrity of the investigation, not to appease the curiosity of the public in the middle of an on-going investigation.
As for accusing the police of lying about Wilson’s sustained injuries: that would be monumentally stupid, considering that Wilson’s medical records (or lack thereof) will be part of the investigation, and part of the evidence submitted to the grand jury.
I bet you were one of the people who believed that the grainy, video-of-a-video showing Zimmerman being brought into the police station proved that he didn’t sustain any injuries, either.
@Farago, I truly hope and pray you never face a situation wherein you have to take a life to save a life. Truly.
Yeah, if this situation had been average joe vs violent attacker it would be hailed as the DGU of the day. If the cop had been violently assaulted in a such a manner than he had every damn right to open fire on the perp. I don’t know where all the screaming about the perp being “unarmed” has come from. There are NO laws that say force must be met with equal force anymore. Maybe in some blue states 30 years ago they were but as far as I know they don’t exist. They went the way of the “duty to retreat” laws. They don’t exist for civilians, and certainly don’t exist for cops. The use of lethal force is determined by wether or not a forcible felony is/was/is going to happen. End of story.
So far as I know, the state of Arkansas does have such a law on its books–it was pointed out very clearly by the instructor of my concealed carry permit class in 2009. Among the idiosyncrasies of our self-defense law is a duty to retreat if it is at all possible, and that force used in self-defense must be equal to the force used against us, i.e., no shooting unarmed people beating you to death. We do, at least, have a “Castle Doctrine” law that removes the duty to retreat if we are attacked in our “place of residence”, but that likely took some work behind the legislative scenes If the law has changed on these matters in the last five years, I’ve had a very difficult time finding out.
That’s pretty rough, I know those laws used to be the norm in many places but have since died out. Its sad knowing that there is still places with them.
Iowa still has a duty to retreat law.
You and I are citizens and that is much different case law that a LEO faced with deadly force. I’ve argued a duty to retreat for you and I many times regardless of Stand Your Ground laws or Castle Doctrine on many forums.
Virginia too if I’m not mistaken.
I strongly suspect someone charged under such a statute would have a conviction overthrown based on federal caselaw.
Virginia is not a duty to retreat state. We are governed by common law which means your home is your castle and have the “right of way” over the felon. Seee http://www.handgunlaw.us
PT Clay, you’re saying that your 85 lb, 90-year-old grandma has to get in a fist fight with a 290 lb teenager to defend herself, she cannot even use a knife? Do the police of that state follow that law?
Tominator attempting to do a Duty to Retreat will get you killed. Period. That’s why the vast majority of states have done away with such archaic laws. Same with Equal Force nonsense.
Put yourself in the officer’s shoes for a moment. If a 300 LB adult (18 is still legally an adult in this country.) broke your face open with a punch, would you shoot him? And if you shot him and he kept coming at you, would you not shoot him until he stopped?
I, for one, would have made the exact same decision as this officer. Shoot the violent felon!
and to your list….he robbed a store and the cop knew this, he pushed you into your car before he beat you, he went for your gun and now is he coming at you again.
Yep pretty much start shooting until he stops coming at you.
As the story gets modified, it gets worse. Currently, story is the cop knew nothing about the robbery, simply told the kid to get out of the middle of the street, and was attacked and beaten half to death for no reason he knew of. When the kid withdrew, he climbed out of his car and commanded him to halt, whereon the kid laughed at him, threatened him, and then charged him, apparently in front of a dozen witnesses. With his face broken and at least one eye not working correctly, I’m thinking a medal for heroism is in order, he rid the world of a completely useless thug.
I’d either shoot him or hit him with my car when he’s walking away.
Someone pops me in the face, runs away and then comes charging back I’m going to shoot him too. We don’t know what happened, but if that’s what did happen then this kid got what he deserved.
@IronGiants, just a slight but important correction…this “kid” wasn’t a kid in the eyes of the law. At 18, he is a full blown adult. Or was.
He was the size of two full blown adults, and if as stated the Officer was punched I expect he feared not waking up after the next assault. Reasonable cause to use deadly force.
@Guy, yep. Exacatakaly.
As in, “by definition”.
Eh, 25 year old look like kids to me.
I believe that at this point even if there was clear video evidence of Brown continually assaulting the officer people will still shout police brutality, racially motivated of course. People have made up their minds based on misinformation and half truths peddled by bias news outlets.
I agree with you. In this case, much as in the Zimmerman case, details are being let out so slowly that by the time people know facts they are already deeply entrenched in their position, so by the time people know what happened they’re unwilling to change their stance. It’s almost as if they’re releasing details slowly with the intention to foment racial, economic and political strife.
People still don’t realize Zimmerman was Hispanic and not White, but still the race baiting continues.
White Hispanic. (Yes, it’s a thing.)
Like them black folks who try to pass as white, amirite? Go spout some more progressive narrative lies. I’m partial to the racist bloodthirsty OFWG one.
Its the exact same thing as Zimmerman. MSM wants a race war to report on and the race baiters aren’t disappointing them. Pictures of the perp as a 14 year old, very sketchy “witnesses,” no info at all on the horrendous injuries to the police officer. All exactly like Zimmerman. I had the exact same initial reaction I had to Treyvon, “OMG THEY SHOT A KID, F-n PIGS.” Once again I’ve fallen for the MSM narrative. Never seem to learn.
I bet most of the night looters are professionals bused in from Chicago and DC. Maybe the people of Ferguson should stand up to these outsiders and kick them out for destroying their town, cause its never going to be rebuilt.
“I bet most of the night looters are professionals bused in”
From CNN, no less…
They want you to believe the looting was done by outsiders but it isn’t true. Someone I work with is from the area and from his observation about the looters they were locals because what stores to loot. It wasn’t random.
Your friendly neighborhood know-it-all reminds you that the first reports are always wrong and you need to know the environment to understand what possible and what is possible. And finally wait for better information before rendering final judgement.
I heard on the radio that only 3 out of 78 people arrested had Ferguson addresses. This is consistent, in scope if not detail, with the CNN report linked above.
Since arrest records are public record, that would be pretty easy to confirm or contradict.
So, do you have proof that the CNN report is false?
Ferguson is in a large metropoltian area. If you want to define local as being from inside an arbitrary line than by all means do it. Do you think only 78 people were looting? Wouldn’t you think that a resident looter would have better chance of escapting the police than a non resident?
BTG is more than likely correct on this. Irrespective of what the truth may come to be, The vast majority of the public accept media driven misinformation as absolute fact.
It’s called confirmation bias.
Quoting the above Wikipedia link:
“The effect is stronger for emotionally charged issues and for deeply entrenched beliefs. People also tend to interpret ambiguous evidence as supporting their existing position.”
Clearly two groups here.
Almost daily it is looking more and more like Wilson had the right to take Brown out and will be well within his legal rights. Let assume that is the case in the end for a moment.
Group 1 will logically come to that conclusion. They will mostly agree that its a tragedy that Brown was killed and that we should try to learn what caused Brown to do all of this (lack of parental supervision, drugs, etc). This group will also feel that if you (as in anyone white, brown, black, purple) act the way Brown did then this outcome could happen to you and the you will largely be responsible for the outcome.
Group 2 will try to blame everyone and everything but Brown. Brown will be an innocent boy (not man) that was killed by a racist white cop. They will say all evidence to the fact that Brown was in the wrong and that Wilson was justified was manufactured by people in charge. Their so called leadership (Sharpton types) will do everything they can to fuel this emotional fire, because they profit from it.
I personally don’t see these two groups EVER coming to any type of agreement. In fact the divide will only get wider and wider and won’t be solved until some major event or tragedy happens at some point in time. It could be 70 years from now, but something big will happen some day. It is like a pot boiling over.
Well put me in group 3.
I think the shoot was justifiable only because the policeman made some very poor choices. He should have retreated to his vehicle, called for help and followed them from a distance from the vehicle. The policeman made a grave error by re-engaging the fleeing suspect when he was injured, had no means of reliably subduing them if they resisted and no means of controlling both suspects while taking the arrest. The subjects posed no imminent threat to others and the policeman presumably had access to a radio and the protection of his vehicle. If all the details are accurate, this story could have easily ended in the perps taking his firearm and killing him if not for that last head 2 shots. Him running after them from his vehicle could serve no purpose. RF comes up with a reason behind this poor decision making that is plausible. But it does not chance the fact that both MB and the policeman chose poorly.
You are absolutely correct especially since you have had a week or so behind your keyboard to figure that out. Officer Wilson had seconds.
We don’t pay police officers to run away from danger. I can be as anti cop as anyone here. In this case, I’m gonna support the officer.
To allow Brown to bully, to harass or to hurt other people as did in the store before he attacked the police officer?!
I think the shoot was justifiable only because the policeman made some very poor choices.
And what qualifies you to evaluate the wisdom of officer Wilson’s choices?
He should have retreated to his vehicle, called for help and followed them from a distance from the vehicle.
One, that doesn’t sound very effective to me, considering that Brown initially went across grass and toward a parking lot – i.e. somewhere Wilson couldn’t follow in his police car – after the initial assault. Two, after the assault he just sustained, it is doubtful that he was in any position to drive his police car safely.
The policeman made a grave error by re-engaging the fleeing suspect when he was injured…
According to officer Wilson, at that point he was following protocol. He was doing what he was trained to do.
…had no means of reliably subduing them if they resisted and no means of controlling both suspects while taking the arrest.
He had a gun. His gun did reliably subdue the threat.
The subjects posed no imminent threat to others and the policeman presumably had access to a radio and the protection of his vehicle.
This might be the most idiotic thing I’ve heard thus far. Do you really mean to assert that someone who committed a strong-arm robbery and brutally assaulted a police officer with the span of approximately 10 minutes didn’t pose an imminent threat to others? Really?!?
Suffice it to say: I find your Monday-morning quarterbacking to be unpersuasive.
It’s about time we passed some laws holding news outlets responsible for damages caused by reporting falsehoods, see if being sued for a few million helps responsibility.
Godspeed to Officer Wilson on his recovery.
Well, if someone broke my eye socket, I’d be aggressive too — not to mention literally having blood in my eye.
Looks like Ralph is siding with the
5-0 on this one. As am I, at least for the moment.
The evidence bears out Officer Wilson’s story and dismisses Mr. Brown’s accomplice’s account.
In a sane world, after satisfying themselves with the evidence, even Mr. Brown’s parents would agree it was a good shoot.
Class! My support!
Anyone notice the similarities between this and the Zimmerman thing? Media suppression of head injury? Well except for actual video of the “gentle giant” robbing a store. And if big Mike had been arrested for robbery this would not be a story…
Yes there are many. I admit to jumping to conclusions, blaming the cop, but after more information came in, especially the broken eye socket and hearing a witness say Brown charged the cop, I dropped the bias.
I still don’t know what happened and never will because there is no complete video, and I’m OK with that. I don’t have a need to have an opinion. I don’t need anything else to be extremely afraid of police, far more afraid than any street criminal — they’ve cemented their reputation in countless other clearly documented incidents of murder and abuse.
Actually, you know what happened.
“Gentle giant” my azz. Bigfoot!
Moochelle’s kid brother? No wonder Bambi sent Eric the red to missery.
I did the same thing. I was wrong, again. I bet Holder is mad they released that video since it makes Obama’s second son look bad. Tougher to railroad a man when the truth is out in the wild. Glad the Ferguson PD manned up and backed up Wilson, that video being played on the news probably saved his life.
Tough to admit. Thanks!
If you are dumb enough to assault a police officer that hard, I have zero sympathy for him. Zero. He got what he deserved. Good job by the cop. He doesn’t deserve to go through this hell.
If you are dumb enough to assault
a police officeranyone that hard, I have zero sympathy for him. Zero. He got what he deserved.
You are right!
Shooting a guy who is concussing you isn’t a syndrome. It’s a DGU.
How about shooting the guy who concussed you after he tries to surrender. Is that okay?
No, I don’t believe that’s the way it went down — but there are witnesses who swear that’s the way it happened.
The only thing I know for sure about this case is that you and I and the rest of the world don’t know much about what actually happened.
No, I don’t believe that’s the way it went down — but there are witnesses who swear that’s the way it happened.
There are fewer and fewer witnesses as time goes on and they recant or more audio/video surfaces.
I got money says it went down the way the LEO said it went down, period. If it did not, the evidence would have been overwhelming by now. Nothing at all has contradicted the testimony of the cop. The opposing story has been proven to be lies, repeatedly. Duh!
I have a sneaking suspicion that part of the reason that the investigators aren’t releasing much of their evidence is because the evidence they have (shell casings, bullet trajectories, potentially even video from confiscated cell phones) will winnow out the reliable eye-witness accounts from the unreliable eye-witness accounts.
I would bet that, had the Scheme Team not gone public with their quack-performed forensic analysis that showed Brown was only shot from the front, there would still be more alleged eye-witness accounts of Brown being shot from the back.
The narrative how now turned to “he didn’t have to shoot six times” – as if that has any relevance whatsoever.
The other thing about the orbital floor fracture is that it may result in one or more of the external muscles which move the eye being trapped in the fracture or tissue swelling (or a hematoma) displacing the eye.
Subsequently, the person may experience visual field distortions, double vision etc.
Not only would those be disorienting, but they would also make it damned hard to aim….
Can he sue the parents?
The trauma of a physical assault would also reflect itself in the shooting ability of the officer. Assuming his training came into play, he would have been aiming center mass. Yet 4 of the shots were nearly misses into BG right arm. Only when BG closed the distance did the officer make a descent hit. The two CNS hits shut the big guy down for good.
Note in this pretty standard diagnostic chart that left side target hits are all pretty much stress related.
Here is the link…
It is common in gunfights for folks to be shot in the hands/arms. So, one does not have to invoke all this other stuff to explain why the shots were concentrated there.
But, it certainly could have contributed.
Has there yet been any release of the total number of shots fired?
I have not heard it.
first St Skittles, now St Michael.
The drip of truth comes quite slowly, otherwise the story would not have sold oh so well…..
If colors reversed, zero would ever know.
In city 40 mins from mw, 4 home invaders of a certain ethnic background broke into a house, beat, tortured, then lit on fire while still alive 2 residents and 1 house guest, a kid just out of HS….
Ever hear of it? Of course not,
Guess what the colors were? And would you have certainly heard about it if colors reversed? the whole world would know
Never let a crisis go to waste, real or manufactured, as the saying goes….
Cop had every right to protect his life. St Michael had PLENTY of choices. He chose……poorly….
Kudos for the Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade quote!
sad but true
“We now know that teenager Michael Brown punched Ferguson, Missouri police officer Darren Wilson hard enough to inflict a fractured eye socket.”
Do we really know this for a fact? Sure, someone is claiming this. Is it a verifiable fact?
I assume you were equally skeptical when the procession of hood rats claimed Officer Wilson executed Michael Brown.
I am equally skeptical of those claims as well.
The source cited in this story is dubious because it makes claims based on “sources” that are not identified … in other words rumors.
When hospital staff releases the X-ray / CT scan / MRI images of officer Wilson’s fractured orbital socket, then it will be a fact. Until that time, it is simply a rumor.
I don’t believe anything about this case. All the stuff that we’ve read about this case is what the spin doctors on both sides want us to read.
If this was a baseball game, it would be the top of the first. There’s a loooooong way to go.
I’m waiting until the middle of the next crisis, when a small item buried on page 10 explains just what happened and what the disposition of the case was.
Ask and you shall receive:
(See for yourself)
When hospital staff releases the X-ray / CT scan / MRI images of officer Wilson’s fractured orbital socket, then it will be a fact. Until that time, it is simply a rumor.
Absolutely, ridiculously, incredibly stupidly wrong. What is released, announced, acknowledged, MRI’d, Xrayed, scanned, whatever, has not a damn thing to do with the truth. What is a fact, is a fact. Regardless of how many ways you attempt to deny them.
Add in simple adrenaline rush (been there), fear for personal safety (ditto) and ANY injury from an attempted attack, and there’s lawful reason to shoot.
This information should have been released by the police the night of the incident. the officer would have received medical treatment anda diagnosis that night. that would have quelled the rumors that the shooting was “unprovoked”
Good point. The hospital could have released the officers injuries, which would have sure made ME go home instead of protesting. That would have taken a few hours.
Post-concussion “Irritability” and “aggression” do not appear to be relevant. If a 300-pound man just punched you hard enough to fracture your eye socket, and he’s facing you determined to enter round 2, you are absolutely justified in the use of deadly force.
Yes, if . . . if. But at this point, none of us knows what happened. If we’re lucky, a year from now we’ll have 3/4 of the facts and half of the truth.
Like Trayvon/GZ, after more than a week you know damn well what happened. PC suddenly comes into effect, for the FIRST time, to say all of a sudden we have to wait before we decide. If we wait for a few years, we discover that, sure enough, a week was long enough.
So, the officer was hit hard enough to break his face, is at worst concussed, at best disoriented and adrenaline-shocked, yet still manages to land 6 rounds out of <17 or so (probably a greater than 50% hit rate) and call for backup. Absolutely incredible. Extremely hard to believe he could have made those shots if the man-bear was anything but on top of him. Impossible to imagine he was so accurate as to land six shots at 35ft or whatever. Increasingly, I am coming to find some fault with the police for not releasing this non-sensitive information sooner; if it had been put out that the officer was badly hurt in the altercation, the initial lies might have been countered instead of allowed to fester.
It'll be more interesting to hear if it was his dominant eye that was so damaged.
Robert, being punched sans concussion is cause for 'irritability and anger,' and this cop was about to be knocked unconscious with a gun on his person. Besides, the symptoms you describe (caused by brain swelling which isn't an instantaneous process) manifest immediately afterward. The shock of pain and adrenaline were far bigger contributors to his behavior once he'd recovered from being stunned (which also explains how the bruiser got from contact distance to the '35ft execution' in the first place, btw). We've heard no reports the officer was unconscious or even hospitalized for observation; I doubt he was concussed.
Wildly speculative, btw, with little to do with guns…
You should read some Medal of Honor citations before making such claims.
I’ve read quite a few, have no idea why you would bring that up.
The 35-foot distance is in reference to the distance from Brown’s corpse to Wilson’s police car.
Wilson’s location relative to Brown, and the distance between the two at the time of each shot, has not yet been released – other than that the final shots came from a matter of a few feet in distance. Wilson pursued Brown on foot for some (unknown) distance, and at some point, Brown turned around and came back toward Wilson.
The basic facts are corroborated by witness accounts, though – again – the exact locations and distances, if known, have not been publicized.
A lot of you are missing the point here. sure, the shooting was justified. Of course, the trigger should have been pulled to stop Godzilla. I agree with, “I would have done the same.” No doubt, without hesitation, Michael Brown needed to be stopped as he was a threat that needed to be eliminated. That is not the argument.
The situation truly called for a DGU – AS A CIVILIAN. The question now is, was Officer Wilson, as a police officer, performing his duty and mandate, according to protocol?
If he was acting as a citizen, like most of us here, and was just defending himself because his life was threatened, then most likely charges will be dropped and we all forgive and understand his actions. Again, “I would have done the same.”
But as a police officer, if he was acting outside of protocol and procedure, although humanly justified, he should be reprimanded accordingly. Whether it means losing his badge or getting suspended, he does not get the same judgment as most of us.
One thing is for sure, his life will never be the same because of this single incident. He really did not have a choice but to kill the kid/adult/behemoth and that’s something that may cost him his career.
Cops have the same right to defend their own lives as the rest of us. Protocol and procedure don’t change that.
*IF* his life was being threatened, *THAT* is the only thing he should be judged on. Cf Graham vs Connor for some relevant legal discussion.
I agree. Cops are like all of us, humans. So yeah he had every right to do what he did to protect himself. Anyone would. No one would just say, “Kill me because I will not defend myself. I beg you to spare me.” Oh wait, there are democrats.
What I’m asking is, was he acting as one of us (civilians) or as a cop at that moment? There is a difference you know. As a LEO, you are trained to use your best judgment and decision making to use the least lethal method if at all possible to resolve a conflict. I don’t know – call back-up if you think you need help pinning down a 300 lb monster, or apprehend a fleeing suspect without further escalating into a homicide. In this case, that may have been the only choice. No one really knows for sure at this point. Unless, of course, you were there to witness it.
Me, I would have shot Brown knowing what we know from the media (so far). If I were a cop, it may be different but I would face the consequences of my actions either way. There is no question that anyone would do what it takes to stay alive but as a police officer, you have different responsibilities in society. It’s more simple than just kill the bad guy.
* Operation Red Wings SEALs team (Lone Survivor) should have just killed those Afghans if you ask me (or at least tied them up). See my point?
Movies and video games do not impress some of us, let’s keep it real, shall we?
I’ve never had my eye socket broken. I hope I would kill a man before he could do that to me, and discuss whether I was justified later, while my bones are still intact. These arguments are ridiculous.
Under relevant Missouri statutes, Wilson was even further justified in the use of deadly force:
Note that this statute explicitly references the officer’s right to use the same justification for deadly force in self-defense as any other person:
It was his left eye, (don’t know which handed or dominant eyed the guy is), and the x-ray has been published.
And it has been known since the get-go.
Whoever kept the lid on such facts should be prosecuted and sentenced to a min of 20 years!
Just like Zimmerman, had the injury pics been released the next day story would have gone nowhere, there would be no protests, and Ferguson wouldn’t have had to burn.
Still waiting for the results of investigation… until that comes out, there is no point in speculation, on the actual shooting.
I am very interested in the media performance here, and the way the narrative is shaped by the many ‘protesters’ from various groups seeking their own 15 minutes, stirring up the flames and indirectly leading to more damage, to the neighbors and businesses in Ferguson.
At some point this stops being about the people of Ferguson, and instead about outside forces both creating content, to feed the maw of, and sucking the teat of the progtard press that lives on this ‘crisis’ at the expense of the black’s legitimate outrage for bad schools, poor economy, and political mis-representation, which in this District, can be laid squarely at the feet of the Democrats.
We’ll see how long it takes for that realization to gel, and become a force, if ever in progtard conciousness there in MO.
Evidence about Officer Wilson’s injuries, evidence from the second autopsy and from “eyewitnesses” now coming forward, seems to conflict greatly with what the “Protestors/Looters/Al Sharpton Believers” have already decided in their Kangaroo Court. It is possible the Grand Jury may not indict Officer Wilson. Then the real ugliness will begin.
the most pathetic part about all this?
IF the goal of Ferguson PD (one already perceived to be less than stellar with a track record of racial qualms within Ferguson) & surrounding autho-ri-tehs were to prevent what’s already a powder keg and ensuing protests and riots, unlike the QuickTrip surveillance vids (which apparently they only sought AFTER the initial wave of events) in which they had to go through a process for, the cop’s injury photos is something the hospital had, and the PD had. As in they could’ve released the injury photos, incident report, hospital injury report, hell, hospital check-in records, to clearly preemptively communicate the likelihood that it WAS a justifiable homicide-self-defense, as the photos would clearly indicate that he was first attacked.
His buddies who took him to the hospital would’ve known this, as well as the EMT.
So either the entire PD is full of incompetent morons at every level, or for whatever f’ng reason, they WANTED the protests and riots to ensue.
Take a pick: incompetent imbecility, or Machiavellian mendacity.
At least the external injury photo of the cop, if not the hospital MRI/X-ray/CAT-scan pix, taken on any digital camera at the time of the incident, should’ve been the first photo ever released, even prior to the QuickTrip surveillance video that allegedly shows Brown “strongarm robbing” Swishers, to fully establish the fact that it was a justifiable homicide.
This “sweet little boy” — to apply the description of Brown that was applied to Trayvon Martin on the floor of Congress — was reported to be 6″ 3″ and 280 lbs. If the police officer was not of a size to match that physical prowess, it would be unjustifiable to expect him to combat physical force from such an aggressor with only his own physical force.
There is a “disparity of force” when someone big enough to be a professional football linebacker attacks someone considerably smaller in stature than himself, e.g. small enough to be a jockey. That “disparity of force” of the aggressor is properly countered with deadly force from a weapon in the hands of the intended victim.
I have suffered TBI and PCS. Personally, at least, it certainly did make me pretty ornery from that instant on.
In my state, breaking somebody’s bone with your fist apparently counts as assault with a deadly weapon. Which should theoretically justify shooting the fellow beating your face in.
Wilson was fighting for his LIFE and had every right to shoot, the fact that he shot so bad PROVES he was badly hurt ….WE NEED to support the Good policeman, and not stand for any more soapbox Socialism from the government…….and the MEDIA needs to stop pouring gas on a fire…The most evil people again is the MEDIA and all the lies and misinformation…
Agreed, 100%. And he was thrown into that, apparently, with absolutely no warning, he thought he was just telling a kid to get out of the road.
Would like to see photos/video of Wilson’s face for myself instead of third-hand “reporting” so I can make my own informed decision.
So is this really the pattern we have to look forward to? A young man making bad decisions will get shot and then the “community” will rage and riot regardless of justification or who was in the wrong? What is really happening here, are they protesting the rule of law?
Facts continue to come out making this more and more sound like a justifiable homicide, but passions do not appear to be fading in light of new information.
If this is what we have to look forward to every two years going forward, we’re in a bad place as a country.
As in so many other things, consider the concept of “free stuff”, and all will suddenly become clear.
After watching the newly released cell phone video of the shooting of knife weilding guy in St. Louis, I have come to a conclusion. I believe we stand on the precipice of an intifada. Much like in the Mid East there will be those willing to be shot by the cops, after provoking them, to further the cause.
Play knockout game with the police, and win stupid prizes…
What about the eyewitness testimony? Are we saying the kid that came out openly and testified to the account on video is lying??
I mean, there was an eyewitness. Where is that guy now?
It would mean that the officer fractured his own eye as part of a coverup. Less pain than going to prison and less permanent than suicide.
An eye witness lied?! That’s NEVER happened before!
Law Enforcement Officers DO NOT have a duty to retreat. There is no state that says “Law Enforcement Officers” have a duty to retreat. Only “Citizens” (in certain states) have a duty to retreat before deadly force can be used, not law enforcement.
Aren’t law enforcement officers citizens/civilians?
Yes and No.
Yes, but not in the context you are trying to imply. Going with your logic, then: Aren’t women humans too? Aren’t goats living things as well? Aren’t your dogs members of your families? Isn’t LeBron James just like any other man? Why aren’t they afforded the same things as the other gender/species? Because there is a difference no matter how similar. Civilians are non-law enforcement. Law enforcement duties are specific. Furthermore based on your logic: aren’t civilians law enforcement officers then? Can we arrest bad guys when we see wrong-doing?
Second answer: No, because when LEOs are on duty, they become so much more than just civilians (RESPECT). That is why when they screw up, they get it worse than we do. They should know better than just to shoot to kill for every bad situation, only when all else fails.
In this case, we’ll see how honest all the parties involved are (Wilson, witnesses, media) with testimonies so we can hear all the details of the case. Good luck with that.
Has there been any sort of actual proof that officer Wilson had a concussion or a broken eye socket. A police source leaked information that would help officer Wilson’s case, and none of us are suspicious?
@karlb, It bees a conspiramacy Rev. Shaptun!
New tweets from CNN producer Julia Cummings suggest the broken eye socket storey is false:
Darren looks ok here:
This was minutes after the shooting.
No blood on the uniform and no attention to his face at all.
I totally call Bulchit.
And I think you watch too much TV. You can’t even see any distinguishing features of Wilson’s face in that video.
Again: there will (or will not) be medical records related to Wilson’s trip to the hospital following the altercation. There are also photos of Wilson’s face from after the altercation, that will be presented to the grand jury.
If this goes to trial, and this woman is called to testify, the defense is going to have a field day with all the objections to her speculative analysis of what she believes is going through the mind of officer Wilson.
OBJECTION! Narrative your Honor. Sustained. OBJECTION! The witness is continuing narrative. Sustained. The witness is instructed to state the facts as you saw them first hand and refrain from interjecting speculative thoughts on what may or may not have been the thoughts of a third party such as officer Wilson. Any further attempt by the witness to add narrative upon facts and the witness will be declared hostile. Now, Ms. Crenshaw, please just answer the question with the facts that you saw, heard, felt to the touch, smelled or tasted. Extra Sensory Perception is not admissible in the court of law.