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 New York pistol/revolver license application (courtesy

As regular readers no doubt know, New York state legislators had exactly twenty-minutes to read the hugely unconstitutional SAFE Act before voting on it. On Tuesday, Governor Cuomo made the startling admission (to some) that he hadn’t read the bill either (before waving the normal three-day “cooling off” period and signing it). Even more despicably, Andy blamed “bad” bits of the bill on Mayor Bloomberg and the Brady Campaign—indicating that the Governor’s minions has surrendered legislative power to the civilian disarmament industry. So it should come as no surprise to anyone that the SAFE Act is an expensive turkey. The AP reports on the bottom line for one part of the Empire State gun grab . . .

New York will spend $27.74 million to develop a statewide electronic handgun permit database as part of its new gun control law, Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver said Tuesday.

Silver said the measure in the tentative state budget will create a central database of handgun permit records now kept at the county level. The new database will allow faster statewide cross-checking with records of crimes and involuntary commitments to mental health facilities.

Let’s set aside questions of waste, fraud, abuse, inefficiency, unconstitutionality, lack of necessity and lack of transparency for a moment. Let’s think about New York’s handgun permitting process.

If you want to keep (never mind bear) a handgun in New York, you have to register with the State. You can apply through all the various counties. Click here for the handgun/pistol app, and see above.

To exercise your Constitutionally protected individual right to keep and bear arms—recently affirmed by the Supreme Court’s Heller decision—you have to list a reason why you need a gun, provide four character references and state whether or not you have ever suffered from any mental illness.

Note: not whether or not you’ve been hospitalized for mental illness or the “involuntary commitments” mentioned above. Whether or not you’ve ever had any mental illness. So if you’ve taken ever taken anti-depressants or (perhaps) sleep aids, you could well be SOL.

Any New York pistol permit applicant who once had mental health issues but thought they were mentally stable enough to protect their lives and the lives of their loved ones by exercising their Constitutionally protected RKBA and checked the “wrong” box has committed a “crime punishable by fine, imprisonment or both.”

Well that sucks, both in terms of those who applied and those who will never apply for fear that old Prozac prescription could land them in jail. Of course, that personal health information is protected by HIPPA, right? In post-Newtownian New York, with the advent of this $28m (for starters) program to centralize, computerize and cross-check mental health records, I wouldn’t count on it.

In other words, by its very existence, a program dressed-up as spree killer prevention will be used to deny American citizens their civil and human right to armed self-defense. And I haven’t even mentioned (yet) the fact that the new and improved SAFE Act handgun database makes outright confiscation even easier.

Sound crazy? After Newtown, the Providence City Council passed a resolution (unanimously) to ban all semi-automatic firearms within the City. Yes, handguns too. Rhode Island has preemption, so the city ordinance doesn’t have the force of law. But it passed. If such a thing happened in New York, the cops would know exactly where all the guns are. How great is that?

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  1. If it is ran anything like canada’s registry this 28 million will end up costing half a billion dollards if not more.

  2. I have to give much praise to Comrade Cuomo for this wonderful piece of paper. It would make for fine a$$ wiping material after a big lunch.

  3. So the last question – if your ex ever comes after you for child support or alimoney, you become a criminal and lose your 2A rights?

    • I thought all child support violations were misdemeanors? My grandson’s father owes like $12,000 in back child support, and had his payment REDUCED because he wasn’t employed. But that Deadhead would never own a gun, so I suppose they’re much less interested in his case.

  4. Let them break the NY fiscal bank. If Bloomberg had any honor, he would volunteer to pay for this, no matter the cost, but since he didn’t/won’t, we know his motives are not pure. And Mario can forget about that POTUS thing.

  5. Wow reading that application compared to PA’s laws almost makes me want to commit myself just for reading how stupid and lengthy all the dumb hoops they jump you NY’ers through

  6. Consider that this is $28M for the _handgun_ registry. So add on the “evil black gun” registry and the “NICS won’t let us do ammo checks so we need our own system” system cost.

  7. How illegal is it to print one of these out, write a big “**** YOU” on it and send it to the pieces of **** in NY that get paid to process these things?

    Possibly with drawings or shopped photos of Bloomberg and Cuomo on their same sex honeymoon night.

    • They’ll ignore it unless your F-you comes with the $350 application fee and $91.50 fingerprinting surcharge.

  8. They are obviously not going to vote the morons out, so it’s time for gun owners to consider leaving if the courts fail to strike it down.

    This “new” registry has me curious. Doesn’t FOPA forbid any new registries from being created?

    • I believe that’s at the Federal level. In Michigan, all handguns are registered. Once when dropping off the paperwork after buying a new pistol, I asked the nice lady in the records department what handguns I had registered. I wanted to be sure that a F2F transfer from my dad had been recorded. She pulled up every handgun registered to my address.

  9. My wife recently considered changing her life insurance policy to another company. The new company got all crossthreaded about her seeing a professional about some “baby blues” after our last child. Not that she had been diagnosed with depression but that she had seen a professional about her feelings. I guess that would preclude me from owning firearms in NY?

  10. Whether or not you’ve been fired from a job is relevant…how, exactly? That’s scary. They want to know if you’ve been fired from a place of employment. Shoot, what if you were fired from mcdonald’s as a kid or something? That’s absolutely insane!

    • Because they’re “afraid” you’ll “go postal”. That’s how I figure it. They’d just as well as if you’ve ever been dumped by a girlfriend. All that rage coming to a head….

      Stop the childish games. Arm the girlfriends.

  11. So do the Character reference signees unwittingly agree to be part of the registry, or worse are responsible for applicants actions?

    • Enjoy it while it lasts. I sense some bad trends here too, starting with the fact that the mayor of Phoenix is gradually revealing himself to be more and more anti-gun. But yeah, sure beats NY.

        • Uh, I am in AZ. I care more than I probably should about NY State, and know something about their gun laws, because that’s where I got into guns back in the 80’s. Need I mention the likelihood of my moving back?

          And yes, I do worry about AZ going bad on us in the future. I wouldn’t be complacent and think that it “can’t happen here”.

    • Every gun-fearing liberal, every liberal snowbird, every liberal Jew that arrives in your state, brings you that much closer to gun control.

      • Demographically, the make it or break it in AZ for gun control will eventually be the attitudes of its growing Hispanic population.

        • Which is why the Republicans really need to figure out what matters to minorities and how to meaningfully address those issues. Demographically, the country is moving towards a minority majority electorate. The ability to make your case convincingly to that audience will be crucial.

        • The NRA and the gun owners should be thinking harder about attracting minorities to the shootings sports and other lawful uses of firearms. Democratic areas can still be pro-gun, but only provided the gun ownership rates are high.

  12. As far as the total lack of privacy for handgun owners of the State of NY, the state-wide database in itself changes little. What’s more “interesting” is that permits will be renewable every 5 years now, instead of being given for life. In some counties the judges stamp most permits with “limited to hunting and target practice”, but in a number of counties the judges have been easy-going enough about giving unrestricted permits, and once someone received such a permit, it was good for life. If the renewal process gets pushed up to the State level, perhaps to be done by the State police, I wonder how many unrestricted permits will turn into restricted ones at the renewal time – my paranoid suspicion is that this what the database is really for. But I haven’t followed the SAFE Act in enough detail to know if that’s just me or whether this is really what’s in store. Nor do I know where and how the renewal process will be handled, at the county level or by the State police, and if done by the State police, whether it will be a simple background check or something more, where the could alter the original decision of the issuing county judge as to the restrictions on the permit. I guess I just don’t trust the State of NY not to use every means possible to reduce gun rights.

  13. I remember an old-timer telling me in upstate New York back in the 80’s that some county judges would issue permits to applicants 16 years of age and older in the really old days (1930’s, 40’s, 50’s? not sure), and that some kids would carry a gun to school once they got a permit. Don’t know how true that story is, but things must’ve really been different in the old days.

    • Upstate New York used to have more in common with rural Virginia than with New York City. Then people from the City started moving north, leaving the 5 boroughs in search of a better life. Unfortunately, they brought with them the same demented thinking that caused NYC to become a cesspit.

      “Upstate” is not monolithic. There are some pretty conservative places well-north of NYC. Unfortunately, NYC is an infection that sickens all of New York State.

  14. The “ever suffered from any mental illness” issue will hopefully get clarified. Anyone in NY who is applying for a CCW permit and has concerns this question should contact an attorney and discuss the situation to ask what is considered “mental illness” as it pertains to a CCW permit.

  15. Their health condition question is the one the frightens me. What exactly qualifies? Who decides? I wear glasses, without them I’m probably not “safe” as I have terrible vision. Are corrective lenses a disqualifing condition? What about epilepsy? Narcolepsy? Parkinson’s? Red hair? Okay, red hair is probably okay but you see where I’m going.

    • Technically HIPAA (Health Insurance Portable Acountability Act of 1996) only protects your billing information (insurance and SSN# for example) but its kind of a blanket term protecting your actual medical history

      • HIPAA. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, 1996.

        No, HIPAA rules do NOT prevent them from seeing your medical record; It only punishes severely the responsible person who permits them to view your records without permission. On the other hand, by your submitting this application, you give them permission to check to see if your answers are true and correct. Thus, you give them permission to view your medical records pertaining to your mental status and physical condition.

        Don’t want them to see your records? Simple–don’t sign the form and submit it.

      • Glad someone was able to post that it was “HIPAA” with the explanation.

        I was trying 20 minutes after the OP, and it’s been lost ever since.

    • HIPAA. Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. And no, it doesn’t prevent ‘them’ from seeing your records–it only punishes the responsible party that LETS ‘them’ see your medical records without permission. However, by filling out this form, it is apparent that you are giving ‘them’ permission to investigate your answers–and giving permission to see your records to find those answers. If you don’t want your medical records viewed, it’s simple–don’t fill out this form.

  16. Being an RN, and having worked a Psych Unit (I’m great with drunks), I sometimes have cast a wary eye at the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) that is written by the the very same people who making the money from mental illness. And you should read some the the controversy, even on a professional level, with the new DSM-V.

    Some examples of mental disorders which may raise your eyebrow too:

    Alcohol Dependence: if you’ve ever had a hangover, spent time buying beer, and craved a beer, all in 12 months, you’re mentally ill.
    Asperger syndrome: a bit nerdy? Fascinated with molecular structure?
    Attention deficit disorder: better quit telling people you are ADD. And don’t make any more careless mistakes in your paperwork.
    Bereavement/Grief: ever cried at a funeral?
    Brief psychotic disorder: includes postpartum depression, usually occurs about four weeks after giving birth.
    Caffeine-related disorder: no coffee.
    Caffeine-induced sleep disorder: no coffee before bed.
    Cannabis dependence: more than just a crime.
    Circadian rhythm sleep disorder: didn’t sleep all night?
    Communication disorder: includes “problems comprehending the commands of others.” Including Cuomo’s and Hizzoner Bloomberg’s, see?
    Dyslexia: ever hear about the dyslexic agnostic insomniac? He laid awake all night wondering if there really is a D_G.

    That’s all folk, for now. I gotta get back to work. Well, one more really fun one:

    Dyscalculia: or mathematics disorder, difficulty in learning or comprehending arithmetic. I sh%t you not.


    • My father is a clinical psychologist, and both my stepmother is a full time psychology professor. My take on psychologists? Many of them are borderline nuts themselves, and often suffer from depression.

    • How about a woman who has sought help for the “baby blues”? Can be flagged as depression. How messed up is that? Denying a woman a gun based on a temporary condition.

    • Oh, and it wasn’t long ago that homosexuality was listed in the DSM.

      We’re infants studying the cosmos when it comes to mental health and yet we’re going to use it as the litmus test for firearm ownership.

      • True ‘dat.

        We have the most vague and basic understanding of the functionality of our grey matter. Far better than anyone before, far less than how it actually works.

        20 years from now our ‘knowledge’ will be regarded with the same reverence as ‘Theodoric of York: Medieval Barber.’

        Our docs have only a WASG (w-a scientific guess) how the meds work. Let alone how our most-fantastic-bio-computer actually functions.

  17. Actually, the term is HIPAA, for Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act. It does absolutely nothing to keep the government from being able to see your medical record or have providers disclose specific health information.

    There are lots of ways governments could dig up this kind of info. The most obvious is to ask your provider. They can also ask your payor (health insurance company) who will have all the diagnosis codes and claims for office visits, referrals to specialists (shrinks) and claims for medications (antidepressants). Likewise, they could directly approach your PBM (pharmacy benefits manager – sort of a separate specialized insurance company just for drugs).

  18. Here in the DPRNJ we need to do that to buy a long gun (which includes BB guns, by the way. You actually have to fill out a 4473 and Certificate of Eligibility) or any kind of ammo. Not saying it’s right, but NY isn’t the worst state.

  19. I predict that a similar form will soon read:

    State of New York
    Voter Registration Card Application

    One of the disqualifying questions will be:

    Have you ever voted for a Republican, Libertarian or independent candidate?

    Don’t roll your eyes like that. The voting and gun forms are equally constitutional.

    • You don’t think voter registration will be added to the 4473?

      Apparently voter registration is a section on the new obumercare expanded medicare application. Curious.

    • • Actively refuses to comply with majority’s requests or consensus-supported rules?
      • Argues often?
      • Touchy or easily annoyed?

      There’s your basic gun owner in Hizzoner’s Fiefdom, right there.

      Add just one more symptom from the DSM, and you too could have Oppositional Defiant Disorder (ODD)!

      Just like Heinlein did, right?

      “Political tags — such as royalist, communist, democrat, populist, fascist, liberal, conservative, and so forth — are never basic criteria. The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire. The former are idealists acting from highest motives for the greatest good of the greatest number. The latter are surly curmudgeons, suspicious and lacking in altruism. But they are more comfortable neighbors than the other sort.” ~Robert A. Heinlein

      Remember Heinlein writing about the “Crazy Years?”

      We’re there.

  20. Once again since it disappeared into the ether…

    RF, It’s actually HIPAA – Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

  21. That’s an interesting form – see, it accompanies every separate character reference sheet. They fill out both the depicted form, and an individual questionnaire about you. Those character references need to be notarized, too. And your whole application will be rejected if it looks like the same notary signed all four of your references. Back to that form – it becomes more valuable with each person you bring it to. So if you’re thinking of going through the process, and the four people supplying references have very diverse locations, schedules, etc, NEVER simply leave it with one of them, because if they lose it, you’ll have to re-fill out your part, then have each of those people fill out and sign it in person.

  22. Wow, NYS wants ALL 10 digits fingerprinted?? What’s the reasoning behind all 10 fingers to be fingerprinted? Sorry, that’s too much personal information for me to give to such a draconian state or any state for that matter. The questions in this form really doesn’t make any sense. The first one is especially a catch 22. They really need to separate personal work and military in two separate questions and NOT put them together like that. Plus, so I was fired from my job…so what? If I was discharged from the military, ok perhaps valid point… Putting these two together doesn’t make any sense at all though.

  23. Hey, they needed a plan to show the sheep they were on it, saving the kids. Now we got big mouth in the WH with his poker face on saying it is imperative to do something. I’m sure the criminal safe zones are done now, stick a fork in em, Randy

  24. New Yorkers city and statewide elected these clowns, they soon will see the wisdom of their choice in their “New Utopia”. At least fortify your front door just to pi&& off the jack boots when they come.

  25. To NYC:

    Good luck growing food, see ya after the Greater Depression.

    Respectfully not yours,

    Flyover Country

    P.S. : Call first if you want to visit, otherwise we might mistake you for a ne’er do well.


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