courtesy NBC News
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The New York Times apparently wants to hear from black gun owners. Huh. What agenda could they possibly have?

In just the past six months, there have been at least three instances in the United States of fatal police shootings of black people who witnesses said were trying to interrupt an active shooting.

In each episode, the putative “good guy with a gun” was a lawfully armed black man whom officers mistook for the gunman, raising questions about police perceptions of black gun owners.

We would like to learn more about the interactions that black gun owners — including those who use guns for work — have with law enforcement officers, with other authorities and with the general public. – New York Times, Are You a Black Gun Owner? We Want to Hear from You.

TTAG has a number of readers who are black and have strong opinions on the subject. If you talk to the Second Amendment enthusiasts at the New York Times, we’d love to hear from you. You can reach us at [email protected].


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      • Colion Noir has spoken about the Castile case.

        The bigger issue is that the jury allowed the officer to walk. The NRA can say what it wants, even though TTAG has historically been a site for NRA bashing (which is fine, free society and all). HOWEVER, allowing justice to fail falls squarely on the judges and juries involved in those cases. NRA didn’t say this. NRA didn’t say that. BUT the judge and jury allowed Jeronimo Yanez to walk. That’s on them.

        Review the Daniel Shaver case.

        • Wayne Lapierre and his cronies are ignoring the rights of minority American citizens as if they are second class and not deserving of the protections of the Second Amendment.

          One would call that a Racism.

        • @miner49er — Except that they’re really not. Especially since they’ve helped win cases at the level of SCoTUS for black people, as well as state supreme courts.

          One would call your claims patently and knowingly false, as they should, and are consequently racist themselves.

        • miner49er

          You are 100% wrong. NRA has stood up in scores of cases of black gun owners, they are among the many the NRA civil rights fund has individually helped defend, so you are lying or completely ignorant.

          And are you saying ACLU, planned Parenthood, and other left wing advocacy groups are all “racist” because they did not stand up for every single black person?

          NRA lies clean cases, where the person is not committing a crime. Philando Castille was high on THC. One of the other of the three cases cited by the NYTimes is the mall shooting, but that guy shot by the cops was also ILLEGALLY carrying, in his case onprivate property clearly marked as prohibiting firearms even for CCW holders.

      • Who has some rationale *why* NRA should have anything at all to say about such legal cases? I want the money I send to NRA to be used advocating for firearm rights, not chasing individual criminal cases, unless those cases involve defending someone who is being prosecuted for possession or use of a firearm. If I had my way, the NRA would *NEVER* mention whether shooter or shot was black, white, or purple, because that is racist pandering almost automatically. When the NYT does it, it is racist. When anybody does it, it is racist. Cases the NRA takes up should be protecting everyone’s RKBA, not differentiating due to race.

        • If stats show that cops are systematically more likely to make a bad shoot when the victim is black, I’d be interested to see those stats. I haven’t yet. What is painfully obvious is that cops get away with things all the time that would land the rest of us in prison and/or get us sued into ruin. Is that an NRA issue? I don’t know.

          Anyway, if cops are constantly so worried that they won’t act, that causes more harm than good. We’ve seen that in increased murder rates in Baltimore. On the other hand, if cops are extremely unlikely to face consequences for wrong doing, then we get more wrong doing by cops.

          Seems like there is always going to be some trade-off here. What’s the optimal balance?

        • Historically the NRA has been a reliable defender of gun civil rights for black people. Knowing the history I feel very comfortable making that statement. The same people who bring up the Mulford Act as an example of the NRA not supporting black civil rights are also the same people who support the Mulford Act now and don’t want it repealed.

          Those people are in fact racist. They are Liberals and the Left.

    • On which point , the police shooting him or his possession and use of marijuana making his CCL invalid?

        • I second this.

          Look mr shining citizen whose never done anything illegal (that hell admit to) thinks because this guy had pot on him (how many states is that legal in now?) it justifies his shooting from the cop being a negligent moron.

          The stupidz here hurts sometimes.

      • Hmmmmm, I’d better watch out for “all” the people with Afican ancestry , evidently their “all” drug addicts high on evil weeds. The U.S.A. would be better off with out the nggrs, sendem all back to Africa, yup yup.

    • What is the NRA supposed to do exactly? It is the job of the state to defend or prosecute the shooter of Castile. The NRA’s only job is to DEFEND those who are wronged by the state, vis-a-vis gun rights. Philando is dead; he can’t be defended anymore. The NRA can’t do anything to ameliorate that already fucked situation…

    • um the NRA did speak about Castille, in statements by Loesch and by Noir.

      Secondly you are believing LIES from the NYT and bashing the NRA on those lies.
      In each episode, the putative “good guy with a gun” was a lawfully armed black man

      In two of the cases they are citing the persons were NOT lawfully armed. For example in the shopping mall case that was private property that was fully and conspicuously with signage a gun free zone. That guy was as “lawfully armed” as a guy in a prohibited grade school with a CCW illegally carrying a gun

  1. Dang- I’m white but I own a lot of black guns… So, am I a black gun owner?

    As per Castile, what do you want from NRA??? Did someone from NRA shoot him? Thought that was a metro MN cop…

    • The killing of a lawfully armed American by a police officer who was jumpier than a buck on the first day of hunting season should absolutely be acknowledged and admonished by the NRA.

      But… Because a large part of their member base is LEOs, they don’t want to rock the boat even if it was a fairly clear case of a police officer killing a citizen unjustifiably over guns.

      • Don’t want to sound nit-picky here, but many hunters/shooters are not “jumpy” on the season opener or any other time. I’m not, and I don’t know any who are. 🙂

      • It shouldn’t worry them. Plenty of level headed LEOs are sickened too when things like that happen. For example, even though the cop walked in the case with that infamous hotel shooting video, I know a number of LEOs who were quite disturbed by that one.

        • Maybe if those “good” cops would stick their necks out, they wouldn’t be seen as siding with the bad cops.

        • Stick their necks out? What do you mean by that? How exactly is a LEO even supposed to do that? Comment on TTAG? Create a big huff about it on Facebook? Have a protest? What’s that going to change exactly? Especially considering working in different departments in different states is the equivalent of working in entirely different private businesses in the same field.

        • I hope you aren’t saying that “good” cops are blissfully unaware of bad cops — planting evidence, beating up suspects, drunk on duty, raping women under the color of law, getting free favors from hookers, stealing and under-reporting evidence.

          Good cops would report that. Good cops would tell their unions to not try to rehire bad cops.

          When cops don’t do that, they become bad cops.

        • I hope you aren’t saying that “good” gun owners are blissfully unaware of bad gun owners — doing mass shootings, posting angry rants online, arguing against progress, Getting drunk and beating their wives, raping women with their guns, bringing guns into churches, putting guns in schools, buying bump stocks, donating to the NRA and worst of all, voting for Trump.

          Good gun owners would report that. Good gun owners would tell the police to on their fellow gun owners. They should remember they are Americans first, gun owners second.

          When gun owners don’t do that, they become bad gun owners, and need to have their guns confiscated.

        • Humans are by nature social creatures and shame is a VERY powerful thing. If all these supposed good cops were to personally, verbally, face to face condemn and then socially ostracize the bad apples in their own departments, it would make a hell of an impact. But they’re not willing to hold their peers accountable, and the system is unwilling to hold them accountable. It doesn’t take a ton of effort to tell someone you work with, “you know what, you’re a piece of shit and I don’t like you. I will interact with you the bare minimum to accomplish my job, but I won’t hide my disdain.” Multiply that by the supposed 99% of good cops and even though the system routinely lets cops get away with murder, most of these shitty behaviors would stop.

          Unfortunately, that rarely happens, so I have to conclude that the vast majority of tank and file cops either don’t care or don’t see this shit as problematic

        • “you know what, you’re a piece of shit and I don’t like you. I will interact with you the bare minimum to accomplish my job, but I won’t hide my disdain.” 

          Happens allllll the time in many departments every day. Its why many states require that departments have EEO coordinators and policies to “root out racism, sexism, homophobia, hostile work places, etc, etc, etc”…. scoundrels (bad cops and police adminstrators) will always fall back on some identity category to excuse why they are ostracized and why nobdy likes them. Rather than admit to themselves they are a hazard to society, they will blame good cops and everyone else in the world, file law suits against those “racist, homophobic, bigotted, hostile etc” officers and go squealing to the news where their BS gets accepted by a public who has no idea… public ostracism works both ways, and right now cops would rather shut up and do nothing, rather than face the wrath of negative news coverage. I thinks its called the Ferguson Effect.

      • Why can’t the NRA just stick to training, safety, and rolling back firearms infringements? Why must they be the quotable authority on every gun-related outrage of the day? Nobody hounds AAA for a statement every time there’s a car wreck or car is used in a crime.

        • They should stick to protecting the gun culture of America instead of being political, but they decided to make more money instead of being effective. Go watch their videos to see how political they chose to be.

        • What the heck is gun culture? Gun control is 100% politics and it is general politics. Democrat aligned BLM, NAACP, the major gay rights groups, even planned parenthood, urbvna planning groups, open borders immigration groups have long been taking strong positions actively promoting and lobbying for more draconian gun control.

      • (This comment should be way up the page but the nice little “reply nazi” button won’t allow me to place it there, so… At Evey259::

        “The killing of a lawfully armed American by a police officer who was jumpier than a buck on the first day of hunting season should absolutely be acknowledged and admonished by the NRA.”

        That’s insane, unrealistic and would serve absolutely no purpose for NRA, its 5 million members, LEOs or 2nd Amendment exercisers anywhere. NRA didn’t train the cop, didn’t send him on a mission, didn’t provide his weapon, is definelitely not racist nor sexist and there is no reason to place one’s self or an organization into something where it doesn’t belong. If you want to talk safety, NRA spends more advocating and teaching that every than all of the other pro- and antigun organizations combined. The only way I’d expect any statement from NRA concerning this incident is if Mark Dayton and his cronies in MN somehow tried to use it as a catalyst to keep law-abiding Minnesotans from owning guns. Even those freaks aren’t that far out yet.

        But we get it- you hate the NRA because they don’t agree with you, even though they have been the only defense that has mattered since 1971. It must get lonely out there in those little bunkers…

      • Evey259, I hear “absolutely should”, but I hear no reason why. Just assuming all will agree is not a valid argument. If an organization is not racist, then race should not be considered in its decisions. So, *WHY* should the NRA be involved? The local law enforcement agencies should be in control, and if they do not satisfy the populace they should be replaced at the next election. Count the NRA out.

  2. In all fairness the NRA outside the statement made after the verdict was announced the only time the NRA actually responded to the Castile shooting was via a vague post on their FB post essentially saying they were going to let the investigation take its course before they made an official statement about it. Prior to that I don’t recall people and the media calling for the NRA to make any statement regarding a OIS. That shooting and the aftermath was a crap sandwich plain and simple.

    • Great. Now, how about addressing how the hell that is the NRA’s concern, in any way. NRA is not an arm of DOJ, not publicly financed, is a private nonprofit, WHY THE FUCK do you expect something, anything, from them in the murder of one man by another somewhere in America? What are you thinking?

      • Ask the people who believe that its the NRAs job to release a statement regarding an OIS. Some people attempted to go with the narrative that Alton Sterling had a right to open carry the gun he had but that was until it was made known he was a convicted felon who shouldn’t have been in possession of a firearm to begin with.

        • The people who expect it are the lobby and people who want to ban guns (the NYT is on record supporting DC in Heller meaning it supported total bans, even of revolvers kept at home).

          NY time is also on record saying Planned Parenthood does not have to respond to every time there is a bad outcome abortion. the NYT would never say the ACLU should be responding to every outcome where someone is let out on an extreme view of the the fourth or fifth amendment and committing further crime.

          And by the way in two of the three cases they are citing as “putative ‘good guy with a gun’,” who were shot by cops, the person was NOT lawfully carrying

  3. In all fairness the NRA outside the statement made after the verdict was announced the only time the NRA actually responded to the Castile shooting was via a vague post on their FB post essentially saying they were going to let the investigation take its course before they made an official statement about it. Prior to that I don’t recall people and the media calling for the NRA to make any statement regarding a OIS. That shooting and the aftermath was a crap sandwich plain and simple.

    • What other shooting was streamed live as the cop was freaking out and the man was speaking his last words? Plus, it was around the time the people were pushing for more carrying of guns open or concealed.

      • Still doesnt change the fact that no one has made public cries for the NRA to make a statement for officer involved shootings prior to or after Castile was shot. I’m not here to argue reasoning just it pointing out.

        • I have seen a lot of people call for the NRA to makes statements about police shootings, police behavior towards open carriers and black people exercising their rights before and after Castile.

          A lot of Californians were upset that the NRA didn’t help them when the government was banning open carry completely. Eventually the government got what they wanted: Californians can no longer carry without a permission slip. There was a lot of videos being posted on Youtube of Californian 2A activists being treated badly by law enforcement because they were carrying unloaded guns. Those activists wanted help from the NRA crowd. Instead most NRA peeps were shitting on open carry and were telling people to stop using their 1st Amendment to protect the 2nd Amendment.

          From what I recall, Californians were the ones that started the whole strategy of filming/streaming your open carry in order to hold law enforcement accountable if they did anything wrong. They wanted to resist gun control the only way they could, they were trying to normalize big black scary guns and get more good people comfortable carrying their guns.

        • Seen a lot? Give specifics. Nearly none of them resulted from public and media cries but was in response to bad media coverage. Like Open Carry Texas push for OC of handguns.

        • your assertion that the NRA has to respond to every case is absurd and a blatant double standard. The AAA doesn’t and isn’t demanded to respond to every road accident, the ACLU doesn’t have to respond to cases where the fourth or fifth amendment causes a subsequent crime. The same demands are not made

          Does the NYT ask why “Everytown” or the various other gun ban groups which outspend the NRA on advocacy 17:1, don’t respond to each of the thee MILLION crimes prevented by gun owners each year?

  4. The problem with the NRA making comments on CC isn’t race but rather they are over all a pro LEO organization. They have huge income streams from training officers. As much as I hate to say it, that is on some levels a conflict of interest in circumstances where a licensed CC holder gets shot by an officer no matter the race.

    • I think race does play a part because their base is white and they seem to feel they are not fans of non whites. Maybe they have internal data that would suggest to them not to have diversity and to stick to tradition.

      The NRA was created by law and order types. No surprise they are still for strong law enforcement and pro government. That is what they were created for: training the military and police to be better killers so they can enforce the law.

      There is definitely a conflict of interest by being pro police state and pro 2nd Amendment. We see what side their bias leans. Unfortunately most NRA members are fooled still.

      • One would assume being a law and order type would mean that you would follow the law of the land. Shooting a legally armed American citizen no matter what color he is is against the wall, isn’t it?

        Why isn’t the NRA protecting the rights of American citizens who are legally armed yet or harassed or even killed by L Leo’s?

        One can only assume it’s because those American citizens are the wrong color for the NRA executives taste. But it does seem that the Russians secret agent Butina was the right color for them, some of them were even sleeping with her. That’s the textbook definition of sleeping with the enemy, thanks patriots at the NRA.

      • Exactly how do you know “their base is white”? And why do you care? The only reason I can think of is that *you* are racist. Otherwise, why are you introducing race into a discussion of a civil rights group/organization?
        And miner49er, the NRA is not doing what you question because that is not their job. Also why they have not entered into a war to save the whales, or whatever. You seem to be drinking the liberal Kool-Aid, thinking the NRA is somehow all powerful and financed by massive corporations. Wake up.

        • Maybe because that’s what you see at their convention, that’s who you mostly see wearing NRA hats, that’s the people you see driving the cars with the NRA bumper stickers, that’s what I hear from people who go to their meetings, etc.

          Come on now! We know the NRA is mostly white men and the marketing focuses on that. It’s about traditional America, being a patriotic Republican, supporting law enforcement and making gun companies rich.

          I heard from NRA members, who are white men, that they don’t want no damn diversity infecting their organization. They don’t give a shit about getting the coloreds to join. They want to keep the libtards away from the NRA. There are other organizations for Asians, blacks, homosexuals, transgenders, etc. We don’t need them.

          Maybe you haven’t been in touch with the leftist news, if so, you would have seen how many stories are being made about the NRA not defending the good black man with a gun… Well, a lot of Democrats are seeing that and are saying, “See, I told you the NRA are not cool with minorities having guns!”

          I don’t know how that makes me the one who is a racist. I just want human rights victories for all individuals and a strategy that actually accomplishes that. If I was racist I wouldn’t want white or black people to have guns.

        • NRA base is distributed about evenly by race to legal gun ownership. NRA is about a diverse as the country

    • I’d say hair was a bigger factor than skin color in all three, just going by the preview image 😉

        • Black men 15-55 are 6% of the US population and commit 51% of gun murder. Unarmed black men and armed black men are shot LESS by cops per violent felony committed than white men are.

          so your cherry picked videos which were not random are meaningless. The data is meaningful, it is white men who are unfairly targeted by cops. that is supported by ten years of national data, not a couple of videos by a group setting out to prove a point. These guys are not even dressed similarly.

    • I think location has much to do how a CWP is treated or open carry for that matter.

      Those videos are disturbing.

      • Thsoe videos are made by a comedy group. they are about as real and scientific as a sasha baron cohen video.

        Gems from that comedy gourp includin karlos dillard (the maker of that video)as their ‘common sense gun laws” gun owner who is their “second amendment advocate::

        – AR-15 is a “high powered rifle”
        – we need less AR-15s
        – we need national gun licencing and registraion (that is to possess not just to carry)
        – We need to heed Chris rock in instituing a $5 per bullet tax
        – no one needs an AR-15
        – NRA does nothing to promote gun safety (despitee NRA giving 95% of the gun safety course in the US)
        -most gun owners want more gun control
        – The law should require everyone who gets a gun licencebe trained to own any firearm. That trianing should include mental health assessment to see if you are “the type of people we want to own guns or not”.
        – for semi auto rifles it ought to be illegal to keep ammunioin anywhere but thte shooting range.

        CZJay attacks the NRA for not being stalwart enough on fighitng all gun control and he is posting videos from peopel who want draconian gun control

        here are the guys who mad those bogus videeo CSjay posted and what they really think:
        Their discussion on why we need more gun ontrol starts at 26:30 mark

    • Looks like an easy way to get shot. Law Enforcement Soldiers don’t take kindly to civilians with firearms. Loved the soldier pulling up with the war dog, I figured they would turn it loose on the guy so he could instinctively try to escape the animal that was attacking him. I’m a dog lover but this use of them as a weapon on civilians is wrong. I challenge anyone to remain calm and not move while a dog is biting to the bone and shaking you. Stupid x 10 unless it’s to instigate a reason for the Law Enforcement Soldiers to shoot you. As you’ve noticed I no longer call them cops, Po Po, or L.E.O’s. When I was young, I was taught to trust and respect a police man. Those times have changed because they’ve become nothing more then Hitlers Gestapo and SS.

  5. It occurred to me the other day that the left is just as responsible for these incidents as any claim to racism overt or subconscious. The left hammers away day and night to children and adults gun = bad man. Let’s say we have a leftist utopia world where racism is gone and all humans stand equal but all guns are 100% bad all the time. The result is the same. Good black men otherwise law abiding would be getting shot by cops. Whether its black = bad guy or gun = bad guy the end is still a programmed automatic action operating without nuance.
    In their incessant onslaught of gun owners the left has made it nearly impossible for already disenfranchised people to arm themselves. Good job lefties.

  6. If anyone should be armed it is black men and women. Especially if they live in a poor area surrounded by other poor blacks. The police offer zero protection it is up to the individual to protect themselves.

  7. “Are You Black? Do You Own Guns?”

    Would the Times like to hear from people who were born white but identify as black? ‘Cause I can put them in touch with Rachel Doležal.

  8. MEH…I went to Shoot Point Blank in Mokena,ILLinois yesterday. At 10am(we were nearby at an antique show). There were at least half a dozen black men on the shooting range not counting the middle aged black dude greeting(and checking everyone out). These NYT azzholes are well…azz wholes. And this was near Chiraq…

  9. I, for one, am curious what they might report.

    Oh, wait, it’s right there in the ask. Well, that spared me reading the article.

    • Oh, it’s far more efficient when you decide how it’s gonna come out before you start.

      Don’t have to read the article, write it, or even do the interviews.

    • “Red Queen Journalism” Verdict first; trial after.

      I’m gonna use that. I’m disappointed I didn’t think of it before.

  10. As far as I am concerned, everyone should ke3ep their mouths shut until after the investigation is complete. How many times have we seen a shooter, whether a police officer or a citizen, convicted by the press and the public before the bodies are cold? “Hands up , don’t shoot!” comes immediately to mind, as does Trayvon Martin (which is still cited as a “stand your ground” case although it never was). Why would the NRA want to further muddy the waters in a controversial case before the facts are known, the charges made (or not made), the jury empaneled, etc.? For the press it is a win-win situation, even when it is dead bang wrong, for the NRA it is lose lose, especially if it is wrong. If it says it was a good shoot, then the press will pile on about how insensitive the NRA is, and if the NRA says it is a good shoot but it turns out it was not, then it will be castigated for failing to protect blacks.

    • As a cop, I absolutely agree with what you say. It is very rare nowadays to see law enforcement not equipped with body cam or at least microphones. With something as serious as using lethal force there is not really any officer discretion, if you say something stupid and it is recorded you just set yourself for failure. Attorneys know and he/she will request the “tape”. Even if you were in the right, what you say after a use of force and how you say it, as well as your actions can change the outcome (calling 911, providing first aid or pretending to do so if feasible versus scratching your head and walking circles like someone who just screwed up).
      Be cooperative, provide your ID, stay calm, but don’t be too talkative and think before you answer certain questions.

    • Why would the NRA be stupid enough to spend any tiny amount of their limited resources doing ANY manner of investigation/comment on an ongoing legal case, other than 2A or violation of that?

  11. My best shooting buddy for the last 15 or so years is a black guy, but I really doubt the NYT wants to hear from him. Even if they did, they would never publish anything he had to say since he would come across as a well educated intelligent gun owner and thus anathema to them. Gun owner = bad person in their fantasy world view.

  12. If you do an interview, remember tbe Daily Show Rule: bring your own camera n record everything.

    Probably the Downey Rule, too. Be ready to walk out at any time. His walk out of an ambush movie promotion was glorious.

  13. That interview pitch sounds like they’ve already written the wedding. All they need to do now is cast the groom.

    (Adjust as needed for gender, ceremony, n the role to be cast.)

    • That’s basically what every outlet does. They come up with an idea for a story and go create it. Doesn’t matter their political leanings. That’s journalism.

      Reporting is simply stating facts that one was given. No story to create. Just gather the evidence and post it.

      • Uhn no. The NYT is on record supporting DC in Heller, they have had scores of editorials by their own editorial staff, calling for complete gun bans — they want a ban of even revolvers kept at home for people with background checks

        They would NEVER ask this question of ACLU, Planned Parenthood or even AAA.

        That you are falling for their garbage means what?

  14. Was it just last week our barking media hordes decamped to Ohio for a Plant Closing Play Date were P O-ed the folks they interviewed weren’t blaming the right guy?

    It’s like they start with a political outcome; invent a story that would help, then go looking for “facts” to fill it in.

    Kinda like when when patents of dead kids say: “Um, maybe protect them from whack-jobs vs the other thing?”

    • Playing to your base may generate clicks or votes, but doesn’t find solutions. It’s almost like keeping the issue alive is the point.

  15. White gun owners have also been shot by the police under suspicious circumstances. Is it worse when it happens to black folks? Why?

    Also, rather than focusing on the skin color, wouldn’t it be more important to study what really happened? What were the actions and words of the parties involved? How was it dispatched? What did the witnesses really saw? When you push you find that many witnesses are actually just bystanders who did not witness anything useful. They were “contaminated” by what they heard from others and simply repeat it, or they give opinions rather than facts and true observations.
    There are good people with guns in every group, cops, non cops, whites, blacks, Hispanics, lawful residents, citizen…and obviously there are people in every single group who fail, either by lack of knowledge, training, experience, self control, etc.

    • What did the witnesses really saw?

      Black man with a gun.

      Is it worse when it happens to black folks? Why?

      I don’t often hear about black people calling the cops on white people who have a gun on them or SWATing (as it’s known now) white people because they are irritated with their whiteness.

      It appears that some cops still think that they can get away with shooting black people because they are likely breaking the law anyway or they can’t do much to them in court. What are they going to do? Protest, destroy their own neighborhoods and create an opportunity for overtime?

      At least some of those type of cops are being held accountable in Texas:

      • You keep using anecdote. Black males 15-55 are 6% of the US population and commit 51% of shooting murders. the commit about 30% of shootings of cops. they are 24% of people shot by cops ie shot way LESS than whites per violent felony committed by cohort.

      • You did not asnwer the quesiton? Hundreds of times cops care called on whites excerising open carrying, and the cops hassle them, search them, handcuff or zip tie them, depsite it being lega . Why is it worse the same thing occurs with an African American open carrying?

    • Want to see how they think when those coloreds start to get uppity?

      There are good people with guns in every group, cops, non cops, whites, blacks, Hispanics, lawful residents, citizen…and obviously there are people in every single group who fail, either by lack of knowledge, training, experience, self control, etc.

      They thought they could get away with beating people until they accidentally beat an undercover cop for being black. They thought they were just beating another “thug” and would get away with it again. Whoops! I guess taking your name tag off, so you can beat people without them knowing who you are, doesn’t work when you get the wrong black guy and it leads to your texts being exposed. I guess they could lie… Shit, didn’t work. Forgot they got evidence. Fucking technology. Why can’t we go back to the days of technology where the police could shoot and beat those coloreds without civilians getting in their business?

      • EXcept whites are beaten and shot by cops MORE than blacks are per violent felony committed.

        Black males 15-55 are 6% of the US population and commit 51% of shooting murders. the commit about 30% of shootings of cops. they are 24% of people shot by cops ie shot way LESS than whites per violent felony committed by cohort.

    • This boy thought he could walk around a white neighborhood campaigning for a Republican. Don’t worry we got the police on our side. Just got to make a little phone call to our lovely department. They will take care of this boy real quick. Hopefully he “reaches” or is carrying. Lord, make it so.

      How dare that colored think he can leave the plantation and join the Republicans.

      • So whites harmed in black neighborhoods are at fault by your argument? That occurs way way more often.

        You are using anecdote. Why don’t you go with stats? Blacks are MUCH more likely to assault or murder whites per capita per cohort to per capita. Blacks are 13.7% of the population and commit about 20% of murder and violent felony/aggravated assault of whites. Whites are commit less than their demographic size would

        You are disgustingly channeling Obama era BLM nonsense debunked by all the actual statistics. Per vioelnt felony committed, and per murder committed blacks are stopped by cops LESS than whites, imprisoned less than whites, shot by cops less than whites, etc etc.

        By the way TWO of the three cases cited by the NYT were NOT legal carrying of a gun. that mall was a gun free zone making that carry illegal. And Castille was high on THC making his carry illegal.

        • You are trying to use stats to argue away actual cases I have shown where a black person was ill treated… You throw out numbers in an attempt to erase these incidents of improper conduct. Then you make excuses.

          It’s not even about black versus white. It’s about bad people in positions of authority trying to use it to their advantage against someone with less recourse in society. I call out all injustice done by the government against all people.

          It’s easier to mess with the blacks (or Mexicans) than the Asians or whites, so some people do. Then they claim “well, the stats say he is likely a criminal, the probability factor…” Some people would call that racist because you are not treating the individual black man as just that rather you treat him like a member of a group. Profiling is different because it takes in various data points available to evaluate risk.

        • You are trying to use stats to argue away actual cases I have shown where a black person was ill treated…

          Where have you shown that occurs more against blacks at all? The data show the opposite. White people are more likely to be mistreated by cops. That is why the “stats” matter.

          You throw out numbers in an attempt to erase these incidents of improper conduct. Then you make excuses.

          What incidents of improper conduct? You posted videos from a guy who says an AR-15 is a “high powered weapon.” A guy who does videos as accurate as Sasha Baron Cohn and who did not show blacks are more likely to be bothered by police. he dressed the black guys differntly, had them act diffently had no random controls at all. He is a comedian who wa making a comedy video with no accuracy or methodology at all.

          It’s easier to mess with the blacks (or Mexicans) than the Asians or whites, so some people do.

          The data show blacks commit more crime on whites than visa versa. so you have that reversed.

          Why don’t you just admit that YOU ar the racist, and don’t care about data and stats?

        • Too Frank
          Historically White people, the ACLU, totally supported gun toting whites, the KKK, carrying and walking through black neighborhoods.

      • I worked as a GOP canvasser years ago and then as a Libertarian party canvasser.We had cops called on us ALL the time. By the people in the residence or by neighbors. This guy in the CNN article was not displaying the large badge we wear either. It has nothing to do with race. I had a black guy pull a knife on me for knocking on his door. if you canvas 100 residences a couple of people will call the cops

        Where is your *evidence* that this occurs more to one race than another?

        this reminds me of the case where Orpah Winfry walked into a top Paris boutique dressed like a bag lady with sunglasses and then was surprised when the store staff was watching her and she screamed “RACISM” when if she ever worked in an ultra high end store she would now she would have been watched if she was black, white or Asian dressed like that.

  16. Reminds me of the case where the Portland Police sent in SERT to serve a search warrent on an African American grandfather. A photo of the man’s son posing in USMC uniform with his M-16 service rifle inspired the cops to classify him as a “gun nut,” hence the SERT call out. The cops shot the family dog as it was cowering behind its doghouse then broke through a sliding glass door. Three cops armed with fully automatic MP-5 submachinegund opened fire. The home owner was shot 28 times including 22 times in the back after he collspsed face down over a chair. Thr cops claim that they opened fire because thr home owner threatened them with an unloaded, two shot Derringer but this pustol was found in a paper bag with tools on the coffee table. The shattered remains of a butane lightwr found under the body suggests that the man flicked his BIC at them. Then Police Chief Tom Potter warned, “The shooting is a time of things to come as criminals become better armed and police try to match their firepower.” The information compiled by the FBI for Law Enforcement Killed and Assaulted reveals this to be utter bull shit.

    • Bic lighter and two shot derringer better armed then a Law Enforcement Soldier, uh okay if they say so

  17. Are you black? Do you own guns? We’d like to hear from you. …. You have the right to remain silent.Every thing you say can and will be used against you. Was the best tip I’d ever gotten from a Law Enforcement Soldier

  18. Here’s the rationale for invidiously racist gun controls, as best as I can decipher it:

    “You don’t need a gun because John Burge, Justin Volpe, Andreas Mehserle, James Frascatore, Jason van Dyke, and Amber Guyger will ‘protect’ you.”

  19. Two of the three cases the NYT is citing and calling “putative ‘good guy with a gun'” were illegal carry.

    • I guess someone isn’t into the U.S. Constitution.

      It’s okay to kill all those illegal carriers in states where the government doesn’t want to give out permission slips? It’s okay to take away an adults right to consume what they please? It’s okay to deny a person their right to self preservation because they use certain substances?

      Are you an American or not?

      • Are all your posts so flat earth combinations of red herrings and strawmen? African Americans are not most people shot by cops in either good or bad shootings.

        The question is why would the NRA, which has defended many black gun owners in its Civil rights Defense fund (which is their arm that deals with this) go out of it way to defend every gun owners who is materially breaking the law like most of the cases cited by the New York times?

        why are you insisting that NRA defend crimials simply becasue they are African American and have a gun wiht them illegally?The NRA doesnt make comments on 99% of people arrested with firearms or shot with them.

        African Americans are about 5% of legal gun owners in the US. They are about 5% of NRA membership. they are more than 15% of the current cases defended by the NRA Civil Rghts Defense fund.

        Of persons elgibale to be legal gun owners by race the NRA membership looks to be exacly proprortional by race.

  20. The New York Times is a racist newspaper. They have never supported gun rights for black people. They are against gun for law abiding black people. They are a part of white Liberal America that fears the scariest thing in America. An articulate black person with a gun.

    They are many examples of police thanking blacks with guns. TTAG has covered these stories in the past

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