Yep, everyone is getting into the pistol caliber carbine game these days. Can’t blame them — the market seems pretty excited about the prospect of shelling out big bucks for the guns. The space is starting to get a little crowded, what with two MP5 importers, the SIG SAUER MPX, a 9mm AK rifle, and the CZ Scorpion already announced, but POF-USA thinks that they’ve got a winner in their PSG 9mm carbine, revealed at the NRA Annual Meetings . . .
The gun looks pretty much like a SIG SAUER MPX, but without some of the bells and whistles.
Instead of a proprietary magazine, they appear to use Colt mags. Instead of a gas piston design, it looks like some direct blowback variation. And rather than re-designing the upper receiver to use a new recoil system, they just shoved it behind the bolt carrier while still making it small enough to work without a buffer tube. In short, it’s a less complex MPX that does the same job but without some of the extra added features.
Here’s the best part. MSRP? $999.99, or $400 less than the MPX. There’s also a customized pistol brace from the SB Tactical guys that will be on offer with the gun, which looks flippin’ sweet.
But I can still get a CX4 for $700. No thanks.
Or a Nano carbine 9mm that takes glock mags for $550.
Only problem is that Mag Tactical Systems apparently ceased production due to fail to feed issues, the Nano Carbine is no longer on their website and online dealers show out of stock with no backorder status.
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Or you could pay just $579.00 for your CX4 including shipping with 5! 17rd PX4 magazines.
Even less if you buy more than one.
Available at this price in 9mm and with 17rd PX4 magazines
I believe these guns can be converted to accept 92 magazines fairly easily.
Keep in mind, you may have to wait a few weeks for delivery.
I waited, but at this price I was happy to wait.
Beretta CX4 Storm 9mm Patrol Carbine w/FIVE 17rd Px4 Magazines
http://www.botach.com/beretta-cx4-storm-9mm-patrol-carbine-w-five-17rd-px4-magazines/
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That’s a great price! Too bad it’s from Botach. I’ve ordered a lot of stuff over the years from Botach and will continue to order small inexpensive items because the free shipping and low dollar amount makes it somewhat reasonable to risk not receiving what you ordered and the hassle of dealing with Botach’s notorious customer service, they don’t answer their phone and never return calls after you leave a voice mail. Online chat is the only way to communicate with Botach and I suspect the CS Reps you are chatting with are located in Mumbai India, so there is no way I would risk a several hundred dollar firearm purchase and then hope that Botach actually has the item in stock and then trust them to actually ship it to your FFL. Botach puts the burden on the buyer to get the FFL holder to send a copy of their license. Botach does not have a list of FFL Dealers with license on file like Buds or PSA, and there’s probably a good reason for that. Never make a web purchase of firearm from an online dealer that won’t answer or return phone calls.
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Ted Unlis says:
April 15, 2015 at 17:05
“That’s a great price! Too bad it’s from Botach. I’ve ordered a lot of stuff over the years from Botach and will continue to order small inexpensive items because the free shipping and low dollar amount makes it somewhat reasonable to risk not receiving what you ordered and the hassle of dealing with Botach’s notorious customer service, they don’t answer their phone and never return calls after you leave a voice mail….”
Here’s what happened to my CX4 order from Botach:
It took about three weeks for my CX4 to arrive.
The CX4 came with only two magazines included in the case and a printed note explaining
that the other three would be shipped separately.
I inquired by email after about two-three more weeks about the magazines.
They called me back the very next day.
The woman I spoke to was very nice on the phone and told me that the
magazines had already shipped.
They had in fact shipped and I had them the next day.
So would I order from them again? Absolutely.
I’ve had to wait on orders from Palmetto also.
For the prices offered I’ve been well paid for my time.
Yes, my FFL had to fax over his certificate. So what?
The FFL that I use doesn’t mind.
It’s no different for him than when I an item buy on Gunbroker.
All that said, I presume you’re buying this item on a credit card.
If you don’t receive your item your card company will pull the funds back from the vendor.
You are well protected with most credit cards.
I don’t work for Botach, nor do I know anyone involved with the company.
Do they have the easiest contact system, or the fastest delivery? Nope.
What I do know is I got a NIB CX4 with free shipping and three extra magazines
that don’t normally come with the gun, for $579.00.
If you subtract just $80 for the three extra mags the CX4 nets out at $499.00
There’s no similar deal for a pistol caliber carbine of this quality that I am aware of.
Since it’s unlikely anyone would have an urgent need for a PCC anyway,
why not wait and save yourself several hundred dollars?
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I can buy and make a HiPoint Carbine look like a CX4 for under half that 😉
Then you have to put up with a 10 round magazine? No Thanks.
CZ Scorpions need a trigger pack badly. If one was made that offered better feel than the factory pack then the Scorpion would be a real winner. Any rumors?
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2015/04/jeremy-s/cz-usa-announces-scorpion-folding-stock-922r-compliance-kit/
Yes, because the trigger pack counts as four, 922(r) parts, there will be an american one made. It’s also extremely easy to swap out so I bet there will be multiple aftermarket ones made domestically.
Have you put a few hundred rounds through it yet, or compressed the spring? Those will both do a lot to better the trigger feel. Currently no one is planning a new trigger for it.
…not quite accurate. A domestic trigger pack(s) are in the works now.
Is there any particular reason they can’t just sell the BCG? That looks like where the magic is, the rest is just a plain-jane 9mm AR-15.
“Money”
This might be a winner. The MPX is very expensive, and the scorpion can be a pain in the @$$ because of all the import rules and regulations. If it runs and is even remotely available they may have a knock out on their hands.
I am not sure why having to buy a single compliance kit qualifies as a “pain in the ass”. If so everything I have is a massive one as I have bought more than one thing for everything I own. And it’s a lot less work than what 90% of people do to their AR’s or glocks. Those pains in the ass.
Damn and here I am in the middle of getting all my parts together for a 9mm ak pistol… Choices.
That thing looks way handy SBR’d.
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AR-style platforms + pistol calibers = the thing of 2015. Fun to plink steel with, cheap to run.
Market is flooded with these kinda guns built to feed the ubiquitous Glock 9mm magazine, too: LWD’s G9, Centerfire Systems’ / Mag Tactical Nano, TNW’s Aero, JP’s GMR-13 and the DIYs like QC-10 and such.
I like options. Good stuff.
The only “pistol caliber carbine” I ever had any use for is my Winchester 94 in .44mag.
My 77/357 SBR is pretty handy as well.
If someone made higher capacity mags for the 77/357, I would be all over it. That would be a damn near perfect survival gun.
As it is, though, I can’t see a reason to choose that over my Marlin 1894c.
What would be really awesome is if Kel-Tec took that patent they have for rimlock-resilient magazines (which they use for PMR-30 and RMR-30 currently), and adapt it to other rimmed cartridges, and especially .357 Mag, and offer aftermarket hi-cap mags for 77/357. Even better if they took that mag design and made a Sub-2000 for it – that would basically be the modern-day M1 Carbine.
What a coincidence. I am also in Oregon, have the same rifle, and was thinking the same thing. Small world.
PCCs are fun to shoot, and cheap to shoot, especially if you reload. They don’t need gas systems and are relatively simple to clean and maintain. For those reasons I can understand the popularity of the Hi-Point Carbines, Kel-tec Sub 2000 or even a Mec Tech conversion kit. Cheap fun. And if that’s all you can afford for home defense, so be it.
In the $700-$1,000 price range there are so many superior choices for home defense or hunting, I can’t understand paying that kind of money for something that only pretends to be a rifle.
I was actually really surprised at the simplicity and easy of cleaning the scorpion. Takes down, cleans and lubes in a few minutes.
And IMO there is nothing better than a PCC for HD if it is SBR. Compact, easy to use, easy to suppress, faster follow up shots than a shotgun or rifle, cheaper to train with, therefore more training. Currently my Wife uses the Kriss Vector and I use an MP5 clone as bedside guns, and there is nothing available I would rather use at any price.
Not to sound like I’m stuck in 2013, but 300blk?
The couple hundred bucks you save by just buying an upper vs a whole new rifle goes a long way towers range ammo. And premium defense ammo in most calibers is .75-1.00 a shot anyway.
Well, Yeah, but you only need about 40-60 rounds of defense ammo, the rest is a bunch cheaper than that. .300 blk? Not so much, it’s still difficult to get much below $1. 9mm at $.30 presents a reasonable question. And with Win. Train and defend, they shoot the same for 1/4 the price.
My take on these pistol caliber carbines is that we’re an aging nation. A light, easy to handle carbine with a generous mag cap could be the trick for the over 60 crowd with less nimble hands, weaker eyes and shoulders.
I used to just automatically say shotgun for home defense. Now i put a lot more thought into WHO needs the home defense gun.
Any word on how good/ not good Thureon Defence PCCs are? They have a nice looking one in 10mm that takes G40 mags… Also .357 Sig., 9mm, .40.
Thureon’s products have pretty good reputation, higher quality than Just Right Carbines. I have a Thureon PCC and it feels good , I have tested basic functions in dry fire, but I still have not taken it to a range yet.
I have never been a fan of pistol caliber carbines. In my personal opinion, pistol caliber is just that meant for a pistol. However I know a LOT of people out there love them. The increased speed, accuracy at longer distances and so forth. They are just not for me. I have an AR-15 shooting 5.56 for longer distances. That’s just my two cents worth.
Rifles: .22LR for cheap shooting, intermediate and rifle cartridges when terminal ballistics are needed.
Except 22 LR is mostly vaporware or ten cents a round. I can dang near reload my 9mm at ten cents a round. I’m convinced PCC’s popularity is due to lack of 22
I wouldn’t want one of these for long distance either, but totally want one for a house gun. I am considering trading my AR in for a 9mm carbine for just that purpose, actually.
The barrel length probably gets 9mm +P near or at the range of .357 mag handgun performance, only without the muzzle blast or recoil. For me, the appeal is better personal accuracy and control under stress than I would have with a handgun just after waking in the night. That and having a common caliber to share with my EDC handgun, which is cheaper than 5.56 for target practice.
I used to have a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9mm that took S&W pistol mags and was a hoot to shoot. One of the many guns I regret selling.
A new category for the next TTAG awards: “Lost Opportunity” award. Sig can take it home and put it on the shelf, right next to their MPX “best rifle” award.
Antique 50’s style charging handle is a deal breaker for me just like the MPX. If they make a proper modern side charger I will look into it, but I cannot accept the charging handle being there.
I was under the assumption that I’d really like the side charging handle of my ARAK 21 so much better than my AR. Funny thing is though, I’ve shot my AR enough that I always reach for the charging handle in the back when shooting the ARAK, it takes a second to realize I have to reach to the front instead of the back. You can train it away, but there is something to be said for keeping it all uniform when it comes to controls on similarly laid out firearms.
Is the’customized’ SB pistol brace exclusive to the POF? I’d like more info about that.
Also- as mentioned a side-charger woulda made more sense to me.
Caption for the top photo:
“Starting today, NOBODY talks trash about my pink shirt .”
I understand these take specialized parts and machines to manufacturer, but I don’t see how a simple blowback design can cost so much. Until someone comes out with pistol cal carbine(PCC) that is still tacticool, and cost around $500 or less I think they are just going to be niche thing. I’ve seen too many of these companies coming out with PCC that is going to be “affordable” and they hit the market at well over a grand, the majority being blowback action. Blowback actions are just too simple to cost that much.
I’m with you there. If Hi-Point can sell a blowback carbine for $250 then someone else surely could make one that takes Glock magazines and looks a little less ugly for $400.
Less ugly than a Hi-Point? Under $400? Takes Glock mags?
Kel Tec Sub-2000. Handles nice, stupidly light, folds in half, and even has a good internet reputation.
I have two Hi Point carbines. The 995TS is getting close to 2,000 rounds without a malfunction. I have had a Classic carbine for over 10 years. I cannot recall the classic carbine ever malfunctioning since I fitted the magazine to the slide. The older Hi Points had an issue with the magazine hitting the bottom of the slide. Hi Point has corrected that issue with an updated magazine.
If you get a new Hi Point carbine it will be trouble free right out of the box. If you read the owners manual when you unbox a new carbine Hi Point says do not clean the carbine for 1,500 rounds. I followed the manufacturers instructions. Following instructions has paid off in spades.
Alright, how about, “Less ugly, takes glock mags, and can produce them in sufficient quantity as not to drive up the retail price to unobtanium.”
That is to say, not keltec.
I have both a Beretta CX4 Storm and a Kel-Tec Sub 2000 in 9mm whose magazines match match my Beretta M9 and while I love my Kel-Tec, I would not bet my life on it. Both the Beretta Storm (with the 30 Rd. factory Beretta mag,) the 9 mm Colt AR15 and the Stag 9mm AR15 are in a different league than the Sub-2000 and the High Point. I would mind having a Highpoint if they ever made a 20 or 30 round factory magazine. That is the beauty of these carbines, a lot of firepower.
As to the POF, here we are almost 4 months after their announcement and the product is not on their web site. That is poor planning.
Watching the video, it looks like there’s an adjustable bleed valve in the barrel not too far ahead of the chamber. I’m thinking this is so you can bleed off gas & pressure and drop supersonic ammo down to subsonic speeds. If so, this would be pretty dang sweet.
I’d love to have one! The Scorpion looks great as well but it remains to be seen just when and at what price the “simple 922r kit” will be available. My hunch is “not soon” and “$500 or more” but we shall see. I love PCCs! I already have a Beretta Storm and while I dearly love it the POF PSG looks like something I might add to the collection. The Storm has a lot of pluses but a few minuses as well. In the plus category it’s shorter than any other PCC I know of due to being laid out like a big pistol. The fact that the mag seats in the grip instead of ahead of the trigger like a rifle (or MP5, etc) cuts several inches off the OAL. It’s robust, uses inexpensive and widely available mags, is pretty accurate and extremely reliable. In the minuses category there aren’t many accessories for it (not that it needs them) and the controls aren’t ergonomic. I really hate the cross bolt safety! Since it’s laid out like a big handgun you expect a handgun-style safety, not a deer-rifle or shotgun style. It sucks. Not crazy about the bolt release, either.
The Scorpion will rock if the compliance kit truly is simple and affordable. But realistically I think if a person wants to SBR one it’s less headache and trouble to something domestic.
I’d love to add a POF PSG and an LWRC SUB45 to my collection!
Why not a lever action carbine in 9mm?
They’re both sexy.
If I saw those two chicks, I gotta say I’m hitting on the one on the left.
I’d have to be really drunk to take a cx4 or a hi-point home.
Those look like a fat chick and a crack whore by comparison.
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