Ahmaud Arbery shooting protest
Protesters march after a rally at the Glynn County Courthouse to protest the shooting of Ahmaud Arbery, Saturday, May 16, 2020, in Brunswick, Ga. (Hyosub Shin/Atlanta Journal-Constitution via AP)
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By Kate Brumback and Colleen Long, AP

There was an abundance of evidence when officers arrived at the scene on a February afternoon in coastal Georgia: A man, apparently unarmed, lying on the street, soaked in blood. The suspected shooter, a shotgun, eyewitnesses. And video of the incident.

But no arrests were made in the death of 25-year-old Ahmaud Arbery for more than two months, not until after video of the shooting in Brunswick surfaced and stoked a national uproar over race relations.

Local prosecutors are now under investigation for their handling of the case. And a newly appointed investigative agency and prosecutor must untangle the criminal investigation, build a case and make up for lost time.

Among the questions: Did shooting suspect Travis McMichael and his father, Gregory, both white, get special treatment because the elder McMichael had been a longtime investigator at the Brunswick Circuit District Attorney’s office? Did investigators treat the shooting as a potential murder, or as a justifiable homicide? And might the outcome have been different if Arbery weren’t black?

___

The 911 operator sounded confused by the caller’s description of a purported crime: A man was in a house under construction.

“You said someone’s breaking into it right now?”

“No, it’s all open. It’s under construction,” the caller says, “And he’s running right now. There he goes right now.”

The dispatcher says she’ll send police, but “I just need to know what he was doing wrong.”

A second call comes in six minutes later: “I’m out here in Satilla Shores. There’s a black male running down the street.”

The operator is trying to get more details when a man yells, “Stop. … Damnit. Stop.” Then, after a pause, “Travis!”

Moments later, Arbery is shot.

Ahmaud Arbery Shooting
(Twitter via AP)

According to the police report, Gregory McMichael said he saw a person he suspected of burglary “hauling ass” down the street. He ran inside his house, calling for his son Travis. The two grabbed their guns, hopped into a pickup truck and chased him.

Gregory McMichael told police they wanted to talk to Arbery and tried to corner him, but he began to “violently attack” Travis McMichael, the report says. The two fought over the shotgun, and Arbery was shot. The McMichaels claimed self-defense.

The father and son were questioned, and police called the district attorney’s office, where Gregory McMichael had worked for more than two decades, for legal advice. They were released.

Meanwhile, Arbery’s mother got a call from an investigator.

“He went on to say that Ahmaud was involved in a burglary, and in the midst of the burglary he was confronted by the homeowner, and in the midst of that confrontation, there was a fight over the firearm and Ahmaud was shot and killed,” Wanda Cooper-Jones told The Associated Press.

She repeated that story to her family.

___

Law enforcement in Brunswick has a checkered history, and over the past decade police have faced numerous lawsuits and increasing scrutiny.

In 2010, two officers fired eight bullets into an unarmed woman’s car after a chase, killing her. An investigation found neither of the officers checked on her condition afterward — instead their in-car cameras caught them comparing their shooting skills.

One of those officers later killed his estranged wife and her friend before dying in a standoff with police.

Just days after Arbery’s killing, Glynn County Police Chief John Powell and three former high-ranking officers were indicted in what investigators described as a cover-up of an officer’s sexual relationship with an informant.

A November 2019 memo from the county manager described how Powell had “inherited a culture of cronyism, outdated policies, lack of appropriate training, and loss of State certification.”

The memo also described how supervisors had failed to document or investigate misconduct allegations and detailed a “culture of cover-ups, failure to supervise, abuse of power, and lack of accountability within the Glynn County Police Department” before Powell arrived.

Now, the version of Arbery’s death told to Cooper-Jones is under dispute, and authorities are again under scrutiny.

___

Officers in a small town calling the DA for guidance in a fatal shooting case is not unusual and would normally be uncontroversial. But there’s disagreement over what happened next.

Peter Murphy, an elected commissioner in Glynn County, alleged that officers were hesitant to arrest the McMichaels after the DA’s office told them it wasn’t necessary.

“I’m just wondering, what other investigation occurred over the next two months really?” Murphy said.

The district attorney’s office has called that a “malicious lie” and says it was police who raised the justified shooting angle.

Police say they were told the day of the shooting that more follow-up was needed but the McMichaels weren’t flight risks and could go home. A second prosecutor was brought in after the first recused herself because Gregory McMichael had worked for her, and he quickly decided no charges were necessary. He was eventually removed over his own conflict of interest — his son works at the Brunswick Circuit.

J. Tom Morgan, a former metro Atlanta district attorney who is now a criminal defense lawyer, said it would be a “big misstep” for the DA to advise against arrests if officers decided there was probable cause that a crime had occurred.

“I can’t imagine saying ‘stand down’ if I’m not there personally to talk to people,” Morgan said. “If police believe they have probable cause, I’m not going to second-guess them from my back porch.”

In any homicide, it’s important to interview witnesses immediately while the facts are still fresh in their minds and before they’ve had a chance to coordinate stories. If that was delayed because officers were told not to make arrests, it could be problematic, he said.

Bowling Green State University criminologist Philip Stinson said there is also a tendency to treat a crime scene differently if a current or former law enforcement officer is involved, as was the case with Gregory McMichael.

It could make it harder for prosecutors to bring a successful murder case, and easier for defense lawyers to argue that the crime scene is tainted by potential prosecutor misconduct that’s under investigation by Georgia authorities.

It looks like investigators started with an assumption it was a justified shooting, Stinson said.

“Because of that — because of all of the assumptions that are made, all of the steps in the investigation that are not taken — they made the job much more difficult for the AG’s office,” he said.

___

The case seemed to have stalled until May 5, when a video was posted to the website of a local radio station.

The shaky footage, taken by a man listed in the police report as a witness, shows Arbery, dressed in shorts and a white top, running from the McMichaels. The driver’s side door is open. Travis McMichael and Arbery appear to struggle over the gun. Gregory McMichael hops from the back of the truck. Arbery is shot and falls to the ground.

It doesn’t show Arbery with a firearm, nor have police said they recovered one.

The footage seemed to refute Gregory McMichael’s version and prompted widespread outrage and calls for justice. The case drew national attention, including from Jay-Z and President Donald Trump, who said he was “disturbed.”

The Georgia Bureau of Investigation took over the case. Investigators canvassed the neighborhood, talking to some people who had previously been interviewed and others who hadn’t.

They arrested both McMichaels on charges of aggravated assault and murder May 7, less than 48 hours later.

This photo combo of images taken Thursday, May 7, 2020, and provided by the Glynn County Detention Center, in Georgia, show Gregory McMichael, left, and his son Travis McMichael. The two have been charged with murder in the February shooting death of Ahmaud Arbery, whom they had pursued in a truck after spotting him running in their neighborhood. (Glynn County Detention Center via AP)

GBI director Vic Reynolds said there was clear probable cause and that local authorities had done “a good investigation, a thorough investigation.”

___

The legal case now stretches beyond coastal Georgia, with the FBI weighing potential federal hate crime charges. And more evidence is emerging.

A third prosecutor who had the case when the video surfaced was removed after the attorney general said it had grown in “size and scope,” and a fourth prosecutor from a bigger district has now been appointed. Cobb County District Attorney Joyette M. Holmes, one of seven black district attorneys in Georgia, is overseeing the prosecution at the direction of the state attorney general.

The first DA, Jackie Johnson, has defended her office’s involvement. So has the second DA.

“I’m confident an investigation is going to show my office did what it was supposed to and there was no wrongdoing on our part,” Johnson told the AP this week.

Asked if anyone in her office told police not to arrest the McMichaels or suggested the shooting may have been justified, Johnson said, “Absolutely not.”

More video has emerged of a man inside a house under construction — the home where the 911 caller reported seeing someone shortly before Arbery was shot. But the owner’s lawyer has told AP and others the house was wide open, and nothing was ever taken.

The McMichaels remain in jail and their attorneys caution against a rush to judgment.

For now the case is stalled once again, with courts largely closed due to the coronavirus pandemic and no way to call a grand jury until mid-June at the earliest.

 

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270 COMMENTS

  1. Its funny how these cases always involve tremendous amounts of stupid on both sides and a criminal past history in one or both parties’ past…

    • I was going to repost my question to everyone from the big thread but, interestingly it and some other comments I made are gone.
      But this gist of that is this:
      Would you interject yourself into a situation where someone may or may not have committed a burglary of a half built house where no one was home and and you have no idea if any property was stolen? You break into my house while I am home chances are you get into a shootout whether that’s what you came for or not. I will defend myself or my family or my property. I will not draw down on a guy running down the road and try a citizens arrest and possibly have it escalate to a point that I have to kill someone or that I may be killed over an empty house . At best, you have have apprehended a burglar of a house under construction. At worst has several options. One is that you shoot him and he lives. If he’s guilty of burglary, then you get to spend all you have defending yourself from his lawsuit. If you shoot him and he dies then you get to spend 2 and a half years in jail while awaiting trial for murder. In the meantime your house gets repossessed unless you have a very understanding employer who keeps paying you awaiting trial. If you’re found not guilty, great, rebuild your life if you have time. If you’re found guilty well good luck in a Ga prison as that guy who murdered the guy jogging unless you want to get some AB tattoos to keep you safe. The other option is you kill the guy. If it turns out he was burglarizing unoccupied dwellings and stealin things congratulations, you’ve killed your your guy. If it turns out he was just a jogger, well congratulations, you’ve just murdered your first guy.
      I don’t see any upside to try to detain, perform a citizens arrest or in general pull a weapon on anyone who is not an immediate threat to me or others. Call the cops. If the handle it, you’ve done your duty. If they don’t, that’s not on you. But that’s just me. It’s not the killing I object to, it’s the consequences.

      • Yep. This what we pay police for. Deal with this kind of crap and domestic abuse. Neither situations you want to inject yourself in on your own.

        Many here hate the police. I say this to them: How about instead of taking matters into your own hands call them and make them deal with this shit so you don’t have to. It’s why they get paid after all.

        • I’m just here to point out, over the last year, I’ve reported to law enforcement twice the ongoing situation. What did they do? Bupkis, nada, less than nothing. Audio, photographic, and video surveillance documentation on hand they were told. Their reply “We don’t need to see that”. Oh, & they had the temerity to falsify the report, intentionally misquoting me in an extremely misleading manner. Throwing in “quotes” I never uttered, and downright lying about what was said. Thank the heavens for bodycam to refute those falsehoods. That’s little comfort right now, with all this hanging perilously overhead.

          Now, let me ask you. They didn’t deal with the situation, so who exactly does that leave it up to? Can’t say anything more on it, ongoing case is ongoing. I don’t hate cops, but let me tell you, between this and other interactions heretofore…

          Once this all air’s out in court, the LEO community is going to be after me after taking these shit bags to task publicly. Just how do you think they’re going to react, hmm? Consequently, I’m making plans to move far away from here, as soon as the court shit storm is over. I’m kinda stressed, I’m quite sure you can imagine.

          Point being, don’t take everything at face value. Prima facie can be deceiving.

        • * It’s not the job of police to protect you as an individual. Protect YOURSELF or don’t get protected AT ALL.
          * It’s the job of the police to investigate crimes and apprehend suspects.

          I’m not a cop, I don’t want to be a cop, I don’t want to do the things that cops do, I don’t want people to think I”m a cop.

          Break into my home while I’m here, and you’re getting shot until you’re no longer a threat.
          Break into somebody else’s unoccupied, incomplete home and I’m calling the police.

          Whether the shooting was justified or not, why do the job of the police FOR them, WITHOUT any of the protections (some of them manifestly unjust, like qualified immunity) they enjoy, and when there was no immediate danger to a person? Sounds pretty dumb… or suspicious to me.

        • Yeah Ron, I am. I’m also the only one with solid audio, video, and photographic evidence supporting, and nothing but hot air on the other side. Remember that.

        • Wait, you were asking if I’m involved in the McMichael case? No, definitely not. What I posted, that is just my personal troubles with LE & the legal system, anecdotally used to illustrate my point. That point, is Edgar Allan Poe’s, “Believe nothing you hear, and only one half that you see.”

      • With those two guys, it was location, location, and location.

        In their ‘minds’ (*cough*), their ‘perp’ had the audacity to do it on their street, so they were gonna ‘take care’ of it…

      • I’m personally of the opinion that it doesn’t matter much whether or not what these two geniuses did was legal or not. It was stupid beyond belief.

        I don’t usually support the death penalty but in this case I’ll make an exception. The State of Georgia should strap both these fat morons down to a gurney and give each idiot a Drano injection live on TV.

        Such is the penalty, or at least it should be for violation of the Clean Gene Pool Act.

        • They could be 99.999% European like Warren. Why would you want that to go away from us? Actually, every European has a few percent of African DNA.

        • … So what’s your point? The fact that humanity evolved in Africa? That’s not some new or novel concept. It’s been around for quite sometime. Native Americans have a fair amount of Asian DNA, and one day Martians will have a great deal of earthling DNA.

        • @Ron

          I’m pointing out that everyone is related.

          White people have black people DNA. Without that African DNA they wouldn’t be the Europeans they are today. And without European DNA Asians wouldn’t be who they are today. So called Native Americans are Asians who populated the Americas.

          We are all relatives. There is no pure “race.” Separating people into colors is political.

        • I don’t see what race or general human genetics has to do with this.

          The Clean Gene Pool Act is colorblind and is used to clean the stupid from the entire species.

      • The short answer is no. Playing devil’s advocate for the longer answer requires bringing up something that you left out. These guys didn’t feel like this was just some random dude running from a crime. Right or wrong, they felt like it was the same person that was regularly stealing from the neighborhood, and they said enough, we’re going to detain this guy with the threat of violence. It was stupid, and it went from bad to worse.

        • They assumed it was the black man that stole from their white neighborhood. It couldn’t be the numerous white people trespassing at the same location.

          There was only two things stolen.

          I don’t believe the killer [Travis] when he says his gun was stolen from his open truck after he left his gun sitting on the seat. Larry English says he doesn’t know when his fishing line was taken and from what location.

          Arbery was blamed because he is black and poor. They assumed the black jogger was “casing the joint.” Why else would a black man run through a white neighborhood?

        • Was this the first time a black person was running through this neighborhood? Did they say they thought he was casing the joint because he was black or because there were prior burglaries or he fit the description of someone seen there before? I think it’s bad practice to assume anything.

      • Would I do it? Maybe I would if I gave a damn about my community.

        Highly controversial viewpoint, I know.

      • Klaus, these guys are claiming to be stupider than I can even believe. And backing up each other’s claims! “Yup! Sure enough! He is that stupid, hell, he’s even MORE stupid!” Doesn’t stop me from doubting them, I think they are a rare breed today, actual, no-shit racists, were just going out on a fun local safari to bag some wildlife.

    • It’s even funnier how the article goes into all the problems in the police department, but somehow omits to mention the criminal past of the deceased, or that he was seen in the site before. Honest oversight I bet, no attempt to rise racial tensions at all.

      • Arbery has a minor criminal past, however the corruption is very serious and quite possibly a contributing factor in trying to let the McMichaels off scot free. Whether he took a tool or not, it definitely didn’t demand a death sentence.

        • 3 DAs where corrupt ?no. These guys have likely committed a stupid but justified homicide.

          They haven’t t been charged with murder. The DA even admitted it was a defensive shooting by charging felony murder. I don’t see how she will prove the underlying felony she charged however. The evidence against it it substantial.

  2. TTAG: where it’s ok for a 11yo girl to open carry an AR 15 condition 1 into a courthouse, but it’s not ok for white guys to defend themselves against people who break into houses and “jog” with a hammer in boots.

    • Two tough guys with guns park their truck and wait for a man to jog by so they can make a citizen’s arrest without any tangible evidence that is required to strip a man of his right of passage, etc. And worse the buffoons actually thought the jogger would comply with their insanity.
      Tough guy with the shotgun persues jogger who goes left from the truck and off camera and is followed by tough guy with shotgun. Tough guy and jogger wrestle back toward truck in camera range where tough guy with shotgun shoots jogger very dead.
      There have been whitewashers who think the elder McMchael has standing because of his numerous years in LE. No matter who you are maintaining credibility is a day by day hour by hour minute by minute endeavor. One screwup and it all goes down the crapper and you can land in jail right alongside the McMichaels…or at least looking stupid supporting those two buffoons.

      • There is literal video of him breaking into a house.

        You can see the jogger attack a legally armed man.

        What is wrong with you lady? You watch too much TV.

        • By legal definition, I’m doubtful this could be called a “house.” Not even a “building” for purposes of the statutes.
          And I’ll ask you, what did he break when he broke into the house? Or was he merely trespassing at best?
          As a kid, houses under construction became forts on the weekends.
          I must have “broke into” a dozen of them.

        • Exactly….. as sad as it might seem to some, the “jogger” went for the gun…. WRONG MOVE HOMEBOY….

        • Um… Tom. You’re wrong. If it has 4 walls and a roof, it’s a building. If it’s a building designed for human habitation, it’s a dwelling. The Georgia precedent is clear on both points. The fact that there was some interior construction going on is immaterial.

        • Tom: Were you planning to steal from any of those houses? In Georgia, that’s all that separates what you did from felony burglary. (In my opinion, their burglary law is overly broad.)

        • Who was at imminent threat of death or great bodily harm if he did burglarize a half finished house?
          You are one of those people who are looking to shoot someone. There’s a couple of ways that goes. My bet is that you’re the kind that shits themselves when you see what you’ve done.

        • Not “legally armed” if he’s committing assault by pointing it at the jogger first.

        • Serpent, please indicate where on the video the gun was pointed at the “jogger” PRIOR to him charging the people trying to lawfully arrest him. I’ll wait.

        • So you want to kill a man for breaking into a half-finished unoccupied house? Who poses no threat to you or anyone else?

          That’s the thinking of someone who’s never had to kill someone or a true psychopath.

          I think many people here really don’t know what it means to take someones life so I’m leaning toward the former tough guy.

        • Well, the owner of the unfinished house said nothing was taken and the McMichaels murdered him. It kind of guts the narrative.

        • Way to strawman the argument cunt. If you break into a dwelling, I fully support arresting your ass. If you try to attack the people arresting you, I fully support shooting your ass until you stop.

        • Actually, tdiinva, the original report from the owner indicated he was missing $2500 in fishing gear. It wasn’t until XiNN threatened to dox him and his family that he started singing the party line.

        • There are neighborhoods where it’s safe to not lock doors. What’s your point? The original investigation had him saying one thing, and now XiNN has him saying something else. Who do you believe?

        • @Tom – When I was in the 5th and 6th grade I helped Mr Thompson build his house during the day and I would burglarize it at night. It was across the street from us. Best hiding place ever.

          I’m glad he didn’t shoot me or I would have never gotten that job framing houses in the summers of my sophmore or junior year.

        • I doubt he stored his fishing gear in an unfinished house. He isn’t backing you up, get over it.

        • “When I was in the 5th and 6th grade I helped Mr Thompson build his house during the day and I would burglarize it at night. It was across the street from us. Best hiding place ever.”

          Did you just hang out or did you actually steal from someone that you worked for? If you stole from him, then you didn’t deserve that job. Neighborhood kids will always hang out in a house under construction. I did it all of the time. No big deal.

        • What moron told you (or Abery) that it is OK to invade the property of another? You cross the property line, without an invitation, and you’re WRONG. And you set a chain of events in motion.

        • @Dude – Of course I didn’t steal anything. All us kids would just hang out there.

        • Oh okay. I did the same in many houses under construction. Some were almost finished and they didn’t even lock the doors. When I hear the term burglarize, I think of illegal activity in addition to entering the structure.

        • You are out of your f’in mind. Even IF Arbery stole property and they were justified, just because you can doesn’t mean you should. This will cost them their freedom, the money, their lives, and their reputations all over a what? Arbery did t steal anything and the home owner didn’t care.

      • @Serge I can see $2500 worth of rods alone from where I’m sitting here in my garage right now. I leave my garage door open at night sometimes (only when I forget though).

        So is $2500 your price to kill a man?

        • I believe I should be able to shoot someone that is stealing from me and refuses to drop the property when I tell them to and inform them I will shoot if they don’t. But I am one of the very few that think this. At the end of the day, America is not Brazil.

        • You can’t shoot people over property (which includes pets) in most jurisdictions, but in some you can. If they were just going to execute the guy in this situation, then they probably would have done that before he was within reaching distance.

        • pwrserge: The only place I’m aware of that permits deadly force to recover personal property is Texas and there are significant hoops you must jump through to keep it legal. You can use less than deadly force to recover property and, if the thief escalates to deadly force to resist you, you can use deadly force because, at that point, you are defending your life and health rather than the property. As a practical matter, it’s going to be pretty expensive property that costs more to replace than a good lawyer will charge to keep you out of trouble even though your actions were technically legal.

          Andrew Branca repeats endlessly that going hands on exposes you to a greater than zero risk of losing the fight or spending the rest of your life in prison. He says an innocent person faces a 10% chance of being convicted if his lawyer can’t keep him out of court because there is that much human error in the system.

    • Not wearing boots. I’ve seen videos of several people in that house, white and black.
      The father and the first DA now have a problem in that he was allowed to work as a cop with out being certified.
      Additionally there is an email that has been released that shows the local law responding to one of the residents stating that any trouble and they should contact the father(not a cop)

      From bad to worse this case gets.

    • It’s been long established that vigilantism and taking the jaw into your own hands is illegal and for good reason. Not that it doesn’t “feel good” when vigilantes get it right, especially against someone who deserves it, but they often don’t get it right. This is why we don’t create laws simply because they “feel good”.

    • Why do you guys keep trying to put smoke on the field. He wasn’t wearing boots according to the coroner, no hammer was found and there wasn’t any evidence of anybody breaking into a house and these guys had no knowledge of that anyway. Who are you shilling for?

  3. Every time it’s a white on black it’s a race thing & a hate crime. But……if it’s one of the hundreds of black on white….there’s nothing to see, there is no race mentioned & it’s not on the news…..Hmmmmm

    • Typical…… you need look no further than the connections in the media, banking systems and large corporations to find the problem….
      Just open your eyes….. that’s ALL you need to do to find the REAL culprits…

    • Because black people are more racist than white people! I got black friends or even tell you so. No I don’t agree with them chasing him down and it wasn’t their property but then again if you’re stupid enough to run up to somebody that has a gun and they tried punching them and taking it you deserve to get shot black white or otherwise! When it comes down to is a bad choice of decisions on both sides!

      • He couldn’t shoot all three like John Wick because gun control banned him from owning a firearm. He was forced to use his hands to stand his ground.

        Gun control is racist. Gun free zones need to be banned. No permit to carry.

        • How did gun control prevent him from getting a firearm? A handgun and carry permit are very easy to get in GA, and no race isn’t an exclusion. I lived in GA for many years and many black folks had a carry permit.

        • @Ron

          He got in trouble for carrying a handgun in a gun free zone when he was 19. He ran away when a security guard tried to check if he had a gun. He got in more trouble for running away. He got a few felonies and years of probation.

    • The do that on purpose. They show the worst possible photos of the people the media doesn’t like and the best possible photos of the people the media does like.

      The media lightened George Zimmerman’s skin tone to make him appear white and showed Trayvon’s suit photo instead of any of his street fighting pics he posted to numerous locations online.

      They did the same thing with Michael Brown, showing a young suit photo and not any of his “gangsta” online badass photos.

      So of course for these two they pick the deliverance mug shots. And for the running man it is a nice suit picture.

      And you saying what you said is no different than someone saying that Arbery being black means he looks like a criminal.

      • You think TTAG uses flattering pictures of anti-2A types? You seen the Biden or Watts pictures here?

    • @Debbie Easy there! that movie was made here in and around Lake Jocassee.
      The last scene is the Old Mt. Carmel Baptist Church graveyard being exhumed. I’ve dove on it, usually sits at 130′ full pond. Silty and can’t stay long unless you are sporting doubles, but you can get decent pictures of remaining headstones and empty plots. Some are still there when next of kin could not be found.
      lol..banjos all the time here.

    • That was my thought. Two guys who look like they are in Deliverence try to stop me I am going to turn and go the other direction. If they chase after me I am going to get ready to defend myself.

  4. I love how quickly the conservatives caved to the lynch mob.

    God help you if you’re ever attacked by a “jogger”.

    • Not so fast democRat drama queen…Can you supply the stats for joggers attacking gasbags brandishing firearms?

    • I love how you apologists are acting like the McMicheals were just out minding their own business when Arbery assaulted them for no reason at all. The fact is that they chased him down once, he ran away, they chased him down again, pointed guns at him, then shot him when he resisted. All to enact a citizen’s arrest when the closest thing to a crime he had committed was (at worst) a misdemeanor, and Georgia law clearly states that citizen’s arrests are only for felonies.

        • The statute clearly states that intention to commit a crime is a part of a burglary offense.

        • … and no jurisdiction on earth requires one to prove every element of a crime prior to arrest. Reasonable and probable suspicion of intent is sufficient. Flight is indicative of illegal intent.

        • You should quit your day job and become a homicidal maniac. I think you have the aptitude for it until you see some blood. The I think you’ll change your mind.

        • False. According to Georgia Law all conditions must be met.

          See Colion Noir’s last video. He is a member of the Bar. You, on the otherhand, are a Ukrainian.

        • He’s a member of the Texas bar… that qualifies him to do jack shit in Georgia.

          Please cite one case where an arrest was ruled unlawful due to a lack of proof of intent at the time of arrest… I’ll wait.

        • Jogging through a neighborhood at midday is hardly “flight” from the scene of a supposed crime.

        • Not what the surveillance tape shows. Try harder commie. I see a man booking from a dwelling he had no lawful reason to enter when confronted.

        • @Sergie
          My grandfather killed commies in 1919. My father killed commies from 1941-45 and again in 1949. My brother killed commies in 67-69. I killed commies in 1977-78.

          Fuck you.

        • Ok old fart… Your delusions do not change videos evidence or the statutes of the state of Georgia.

        • @Sergei
          “Not what the surveillance tape shows. Try harder commie. I see a man booking from a dwelling he had no lawful reason to enter when confronted.”

          So you’d kill him for that? Really? I can’t believe that.

          Really?

        • “I see a man booking from a dwelling he had no lawful reason to enter when confronted.” – Apparently what the McMichael’s saw as well. However, the statute requires reasonable AND probable grounds, not mere speculation. Is it reasonable, viewing the video, that he probably entered hoping to find something of sufficient value to steal, but that was small and light enough to jog away with? Seems a bit of a stretch even to get the felony, let alone “the offender is escaping or attempting to escape.”

          Will make for an interesting court case.

        • You were arguing citizen’s arrest because the corrupt DA was arguing that. Now you moved onto arguing he was deputized, thus a law enforcement officer that is not restricted to the citizen’s arrest law and has qualified immunity.

          As I said days ago, these men were not qualified to be law enforcement. The father would have been fired if not for the corrupt DA that gave him a wavier. They didn’t even argue citizen’s arrest, the suspects argued self defense. Greg got the video from Roddy to give to a radio station for them to “leak” the video on behalf of the self defense narrative they were creating. Now they are changing their story to blame the police department for “deputizing” their illegal lynch mob into a posse. Greg was forced into retirement because he was not trained/qualified to be a cop. Once Greg was no longer working as a so called cop at the end of 2019, he decided to call up the police and ask them to tell Larry English to inform him about trespassers so his “posse” could take care of it.

          Larry did not answer the texts from officer Rash and did not interact with the McMichaels. He did not give them access to the cameras nor gave them videos. Larry only gave Diego Perez access and only asked Diego to watch over the property.

          You said they had a Facebook group. Why would they need a Facebook group when Larry is feeding the video directly to Greg? Why would they need to contact the police to contact Larry and had over Greg’s number? If Larry had a Facebook group where he was posting no one would need to go through all that trouble and get a corrupt police department to get involved.

          Why do they need a lynch mob when they have evidence against Arbery? Didn’t they know Arbery from the year prior? Didn’t Greg finally have those police powers he was lacking for nearly a decade? Why is the government now looking into setting free anyone that Greg helped put in prison? Why couldn’t Greg write up a search or arrest warrant with his police powers?

          You do know there was at least one other black male on that property staring in October? Most of the trespasser were white. Larry contacted the police directly to report those trespassers, he never reported stealing. The tattooed black male that showed up around October could have been the one to steal from Travis’ trunk and Larry’s boat. The media haven’t talked about that black male since they released the censored videos of him days ago.

          Apparently the story I heard, that came from Diego, was not accurate. The 911 call from Travis tells the truth about that incident weeks prior. Travis sure sounded scared of the black man. His breathing didn’t sound normal and he was imaging the man armed. Then again, his mug shot look like he breaths like that all the time.

        • Klaus was your father on the Ost Front? Just wondering, seems like an interesting story if you care to elaborate. 4 years fighting in *that* war, on *that* front has got to be an intense story.

        • 1) Yeah I have read the Georgia law.
          2) “Flight is indicative of illegal intent.” So if I, as a private citizen, see a guy do something vaguely sketchy but not all that serious then run away, I can run him down, point a gun at him, and shoot him if he resists? Because that’s what happened here.

          Your move jogga.

      • I had a house built several years ago. After we moved in, everyone who lives on the road would stop and talk about how they had repeatedly walked through the place while it was being built. It never occurred to me to shotgun the 90 year old mother of my daughter’s cross country coach. She even took her dog in with her several times.

        • Yes… clearly they set out to shoot him… That’s why they stoped almost a hundred feet ahead of him and didn’t fire until homeboy tried to grab the gun.

        • Some friends and our girlfriends hit another one of our friends hot tub in the half finished house. At the house warming party he was pointing irls t out. We were like “yea, we know, we and the girls were in it as soon as it was installed. ”

          His wife was a little pissed.

        • If you approach someone for conversation, your pistol remains holstered. That kind of falls under gun etiquette. If you have a long gun it stays in the scabbard, or slung over your shoulder. Same thing. You don’t jump out of a truck with it in your hands. I was taught you unload your shotgun before you even climb over a fence. Approaching someone with a long gun in your hands is just about the most hostile posture you can assume short of pulling up in a tank. Arbery had three choices. Fight, flight or or simply hope they didn’t shoot him. Tactically, I think he made the best choice, none of the odds were in his favor. Travis old boy, you own this.

    • Reality check here.
      When I held (several) someone’s at shotgun point, no one ever got close enough that they got to wrestle with me over the shotgun. The police cane and arrested several people and NOBODY GOT SHOT! The whole point of a gun is Range!! If you’re going to walk up and poke them with it, you’re better off with a ….. well, ANYTHING BUT A GUN!
      They were in a motor vehicle, he was jogging down the street, and they had a phone. CALL THE BLOODY POLICE!! Follow him until they arrive. Problem solved.
      If I were jogging down the street and was attacked by a man with a shotgun, and he was stupid enough to get close enough to touch me with it, he would shortly be eating it. And if someone stepped in to help him (as in I was being attacked by multiple assailants!), I would do my level best to make a whole stack of bodies.
      As a white, conservative gun owner who tries to be as colorblind as possible, these two guys are idiots who have made MY life harder, because I will get tarred with the same racist brush.

  5. Ok, are we to have another riot LA style?

    Meanwhile, no justice for the unjust. The Clintons, Obama, Pelosi, Feinstein, shifty Shiff, along with certain state governors get a pass.

  6. why in the world would somebody attack another man when he was holding a shotgun on you sounds like somebody did not want to talk to the law

    • I can understand fighting the apparent lynch mob.

      I suspect you would do the same if you were in a spot that gave the two bad options of:
      1. Fight, having just a small chance of survival, or
      2. Not fight, with no chance of survival

      You might say that those were not the only two options, but did the victim know and understand that?
      The reasonable man standard is not easily applied when engaging in an activity, like jogging, whose purpose is to push the participant to the point of exhaustion.

    • Some possibilities:

      Fear, “Fight or Flight” response. An act of desperation trying to save your life when you believe you are about to be murdered.

      • If they were “about to murder” him, he would have been dead before they got out of the truck. Homeboy’s paranoid racist reaction to a lawful arrest does not make shooting him unlawful.

        • I’ve read every single comment down to this point. PWRSERGE is responding beautifully to the bullshit being slung around. I think of a reply and scroll a little further and there are the exact words I was thinking. Power on PWRSERGE!
          One point I will add, most counterpoints speak the truth up and until one important distinction and then the lie comes out to back their narrative. If they are correct, they shouldn’t have to change a fact into a lie to strengthen their argument. One can disagree on who or what crime was committed, but I disregard the entire argument when they include unfounded lies.

      • There are three things people do in such situations: freeze, run and fight.

        What are kids taught to do during a school shooting? Run, hide, fight. What happens when you are caught out in the open and can’t run? Well, investigations show people either freeze or fight, most simply freeze.

    • Attack the thugs brandishing weapons at you or hope you can outrun a load of buckshot being fired by said thugs. Which one do you choose?

  7. We had something similar happen here years ago. Must have been around ’92. I was attending the academy part time and working communications full-time. Walked into work one afternoon and the sheriff was there and the radio was blowing up. WTF? We had a 911 call. Caller, “There’s a nigger breaking into my neighbors house. You better get out here or I’m going to kill him.” On a recorded line. When Dale got there the suspect was dead. After the call he had armed himself with a Beretta 92 and confronted the suspect. A struggle for the weapon ensued. A round discharged missing both. The suspect disengaged. Caller shot him in the head. I asked the sheriff if we were going to send it to the SAO. He said, “No. That son-of-a-bitch (suspect) has been a pain in our ass for years. We’re going to buy him (shooter) more bullets.” Not long after the civil clerk called me to come to her office and pick an order for involuntary commitment to pass on to patrol. When I saw the name I told Mrs. L. she could send it back to the courthouse. L. “What do you mean? The judge wants this guy picked up!” Me, “We are picking him up. He was killed committing a burglary.” L. “Oh! I guess we can send it back.” Seems the deceased had been recently been released from DOC. After stealing everything of value from his mother and sister to support his crack habit. He then began burglaries in the neighborhood. His mother and sister were petitioning the court for the ex parte when he met his demise. It barely made the local news.

    • I went to jury duty on a case of burglary against two people. The white girl had a drug problem, her boyfriend helped her steal from homes. Even white people with drug problems will steal from their own neighborhoods or do so stupid stuff for money.

  8. Arbery took nothing and was running. No laws broken. That’s all we know for sure. And that he’s dead. How many of us would do nothing if confronted by a man with a shotgun for no apparent reason as we’re taking a run? In my view, he should have gone all in if he was going to fight. If there is no evidence of Arbery committing a crime then the men who accosted him are the criminals and deserve their fate.

    • Trespassing. Not sure why you all conveniently forget that one.

      I don’t agree with what the two idiots did but facts are facts and he was criminally trespassing

      • Except that the owner of the property has stated very clearly he objects to the killers going after the victim. He said his camera had caught people at the construction site many times, including just kids. At no time has anything been taken or damaged.

        He also made it very clear that no one but himself had seen the video until after the murder.

      • It’s not trespassing to go into an under construction home and look around if there are not any “No Trespassing” signs.

        • Texican, that depends on jurisdiction. If I recall correctly in Florida trespass on a construction site is a felony. No signs or fence needed. I know theft from a construction site is a felony. Even a single nail. Bottom line. If it ain’t yours, don’t fuck with it.

      • To criminally trespass you need to be told by the owner to leave and refuse or you the owner needs to put up no trespassing signs and make it hard to enter.

        Guess what I got on my gate?