Mainstream Media (Finally) Wakes Up to Waco Biker Massacre Coverup

Waco protest (courtesy

“Four months after a bloody biker shootout, the criminal justice system in Waco looks more than a little out of whack,”‘s editorial board opines with unconscionable English understatement. “It’s one of the biggest criminal prosecutions in state history, yet authorities will say almost nothing about the May 17 confrontation involving motorcycle enthusiasts and police.” The News’ rant takes a decidedly low-key tone: “The wheels of justice need some oiling in Waco.” Even so, the recap of the Waco police, prosecution, coroner and judiciary’s post-homicide Machiavellian machinations is plenty damn damning . . .

After police and McLennan County DA Abel Reyna initially described those taken into custody as criminals, The Associated Press reviewed public safety databases and found no convictions for more than two-thirds of those arrested.

Yet the mass arrest morphed into many left stranded in jail for months on inexplicable $1 million bonds. Only after those sums were finally reduced were almost all of the accused released.

Just as troubling, Reyna wrote what defense lawyers describe as cookie-cutter arrest affidavits for the accused, documents that a justice of the peace approved without making any individual determination of probable cause.

Then came a gag order in late June — approved by a judge who is also the DA’s former law partner. No wonder people are asking questions about what kind of behind-the-scenes cooperation is going on among judges, prosecutors and law enforcement in Central Texas.

We expressed concern in July after word came that longtime Waco police detective James Head would serve as foreman of the grand jury that likely will hear the shootout case. Can the bikers get a fair hearing under those circumstances?

The Dallas Morning News is calling for the Texas Court of Criminal Appeals to nullify the gag order surrounding the case. (Lawyer F. Clinton Broden has filed a motion for nullification on Monday). There’s a lot the public needs to know . . .

Among the information that authorities refuse to release are the results of ballistics test that would identify whose bullets struck the dead and injured. The Waco police chief says officers fired 12 shots after bikers allegedly shot at them. Each time authorities avoid providing that information, the impression grows that many of the victims were killed by law enforcement.

Also illuminating would be the law enforcement dash-cam videos, along with other recordings including those from a camera hidden to document goings-on of the biker event.

The more we hear about this case, the more it confirms our initial suspicions that the police opened fire on the bikers from a stand-off distance. And are trying to conceal that fact. We’d like to be proven wrong. One way or another, I don’t think that’s going to happen.


  1. avatar Don says:

    Well, I guess if your political, religious, social views are not mainstream, it’s best to always give Waco a wide berth passing through. At least the law enforcement thugs didn’t immolate any children this time… that we know of yet. If they’d had more warning I’m sure some tanks could have been brought to bear. Anybody check to see if the FBI, or ATF, or any other Federal TLA group was involved? What a mess.

    1. avatar Vhyrus says:

      In one of the more widely publicized photos of the incident you can clearly see an agent with “ATF” on the back of his jacket.

      1. avatar BDUB says:

        Why is the ATF seemingly always at the center of every egregiously ham-handed, botched, or outright failed operation? And why is there ALWAYS a body-count in their wake?

        Those are rhetorical, of course. We know why.

        1. avatar Bob says:

          Why always a body count? Because they have their own para-military force and standing armies hate to just stand around. So they jump at any chance they can manufacture to go out their and shoot somebody.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          The ATF question is not rhetorical! The answer is “the Bureau has not been eliminated yet.”

    2. avatar Ben says:

      It’s terrible to be the target of a bunch of corrupt, violent psychopaths with authority.

      1. avatar Tominator says:

        You’ve just described the US Government….

    3. avatar B says:

      Waco, or as I like to call it, the Hellmouth.

  2. avatar derfel cadarn says:

    IF the facts backed up their position the cops would have released it through Disney Productions. They are lying and they are guilty.

    1. avatar Mark N. says:

      I’ve heard that all of the videos come with a disclaimer a the beginning: “No actual police officers were harmed in the making of this video.”

    2. avatar William Burke says:

      Absolutely true. Also obvious.

  3. avatar Dave says:

    Looks like the cover up started with the Justic of the Peace, who are hardly separate from the influence of the long arm of the law, since their working relationship exists and benefits from a SEE NO EVIL, HEAR NO EVIL approach and back scratching slapping co existence. The fact that a cop is in the jury at all is appealing. I can’t imagine why any attorneys for the defense didn’t object. Maybe the biker gangs consist of criminals, maybe the biker gangs are criminal enterprises entirely, who knows, who cares. The wheels of justice are supposed to determine if any criminal acts transpired without predjudice or bias. There is no impartiality here, therefore no justice. The cops lost the war here because they won the gunfight in such a lop sided and capricious manner. We will never know the extent of the circumstances because everybody is trying to cover their own ass. Let the bikers free, start over.

    1. avatar Fosi says:

      Unless things are different in Texas, grand juries are usually put together by prosecutors without much input from defense attorneys. It isn’t like a jury trial.

      1. avatar Ralph says:

        Yes, the Grand Jury will indict a ham sandwich if that’s what the prosecutor wants — but the Waco grand jury foreman is a Waco detective. A Waco detective! Are you fvcking kidding me! That is not the way it’s done in America.

        1. avatar William Burke says:

          But probably the way it’s done in Waco.

        2. avatar Tom in Oregon says:

          Yeah. An involved officer is GJ Forman.
          How blatantly effed up.

    2. avatar Mark N. says:

      I don’t know what the Texas practice is, but in the typical grand jury proceeding (which exists solely to determine if there are enough facts to warrant a prosecution and issue an indictment), the defense has no say in the make-up of the grand jury and no right to present evidence. In addition, such proceedings are usually conducted in secret. The defense gets it shot when the case is called for trial on any criminal charges to participate in jury selection and to object to biased jurors.

  4. avatar Gman says:

    Is there no honor left in this country?

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Is that a rhetorical question?

    2. avatar US Air Base Coffin Express says:


      Pick one.

  5. avatar Ralph says:

    There was a pile of dead and wounded bikers and not a single cop received as much as a scratch. That doesn’t sound like a gunfight to me. It sounds like a police ambush.

    1. avatar William Burke says:

      A regular bushwhacking.

  6. avatar TruthTellers says:

    Evidence is being hidden in Waco? Shocking…

  7. avatar CLarson says:

    Waco, Temple, and Killeen form a Texas Bermuda triangle. Everything bad seems to happen there. The Luby’s massacre, The Waco massacre, this Biker massacre, the Fort Hood shooting, C.J. Grisham was harassed, etc. Thinking about it, the last 15 years of Texas legislation advancing gun rights are all to correct the massive failures of the State and Federal authorities in that area.

  8. avatar Mark N. says:

    There are facts that make this case stink to high heaven. Is it past practice of the Waco police to stand guard at these gatherings (of which there had been any number previously) armed with ARs? If not, why this day? The stench strongly suggests that the police either have a confidential informant or an undercover police officer in the center of this mess. A hidden camera? That’s news–where’s the film? Why the gag order ont he security tapes from the restaurant? Their release cannot possibly harm the investigation, since they are not hte product of some undercover or confidential informant–thus suggesting a cover-up. Several of the coroner’s reports reflect that the decedent was shot on or going to the round, or fleeing from the shooting–as demonstrated by the downward track of what must have been a rifle bullet. and what is the ATF doing? Cooking the ballistics reports? Why the delay in a “fast track” investigation.

    1. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      There is another possible angle here. We are well aware of the “practice” that, once one cop starts shooting, they all start shooting. If one or more videos of the event show the cops shooting indiscriminately into the crowd, that is a criminal act and the justice system would be compelled to prosecute the offending cops. Would the courts then want to suppress distribution of the videos to avoid tainting the jury pool?

      No matter how you look at this case, it looks pretty bad.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Well, the claim is that the police fired 12 rounds, which doesn’t seem excessive, haven’t heard rifle or pistol but I can guess. I’d also like to hear whether any of the dead are just coincidentally persons of particular interest to the cops, ie targeted. Gang leaders, drug dealers, whatever.

  9. avatar gsnyder says:

    Inside job. They drew the groups together and lit the fuse. A bait job if I ever saw one. Not that the gangs are doing good things for society. But this is not how to slow them down. In fact, all we will see is retaliation. If I were a cop in the area, I might consider a different job.

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      Not that the gangs are doing good things for society.

      That’s certainly true. However, most of the people who were arrested had no criminal record and were not affiliated with any of the 1%er gangs. They were just guys who like to ride.

      1. avatar Geoff PR says:

        “…However, most of the people who were arrested had no criminal record and were not affiliated with any of the 1%er gangs. They were just guys who like to ride.”

        That is what I find particularly egregious.

        How many of those guys, just out for a fvcking ride, were tossed into the county lockup with a ONE MILLION dollar bail on their ass with no rational way to make the payments on the 100,000 dollars it would cost them to walk out of there?

        Think about it. 100,000 bucks. A 30 year loan on that would be what, 500 bucks per month for 30 years? A mortgage payment!

        How many lost their jobs, their homes, their very lives they thought they had?

        1. avatar Timmy! says:

          Horseshit! Dress like thugs, hang out with thugs, ride thug bikes, and DON’T expect to be associated with thuggery? I’m not saying all… or any of the wannabe bad-asses who were arrested/killed are guilty of anything, but… y’know, the “stupid games, stupid people, stupid places” applies here in spades.

        2. avatar PavePusher says:

          Hey Timmy, please define “thug” for us.

          And even actual “thugs” can’t simply be gunned down in cold blood in this country. Constitutional Rights apply even to people you don’t know and don’t like, fact-based or not.

        3. avatar B says:

          Just because someone dresses like a pirate and has a handlebar mustache doesn’t make them thugs. Riding a $20k motorcycle with your friends after you get off work doesn’t make you a thug. I’d say firing wildly into a crowd does. Which group seems to have done that? Black or blue?

    2. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      If I were a cop in the area, I might consider relocating across the country.

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        You obviously don’t know much about the area, the vast majority of the citizens and taxpayers in Waco and McLennan County are very supportive of law enforcement and never have problems or issues with law enforcement because the vast majority are not criminals, outlaw biker thugs or wannabe hangarounds, sympathizers, or enablers.

        There is no significant backlash and outcry from most local folks in Waco and McLennan County, just about all of it comes from outside the area, that’s why the biker defense attorneys are desperate to get the gag order lifted which will allow them to dial up the propaganda locally to change public opinion because they know it’s going to be an uphill battle to seat a jury that is in any way sympathetic to any biker thug defendant regardless of their role in the murderous rampage that left 9 dead.

        None of the liberal journalist at the Dallas Morning News could muster the nerve to author such a deceitful propaganda piece, the story that ran Sunday in the DMN was an Associated Press story written by Chicago liberal reporter Emily Schmall, likely at the behest of an attorney under retainer by one of the outlaw biker gangs. Only after running the Emily Schmall propaganda piece did the flaming liberal DMN editorial board cowardly opt to parrot the propaganda.

        1. avatar Ralph says:

          Yeah, the good people of Waco didn’t complain much about the Jesse Washington lynching either. And McLennan County is 18th on the list American counties with the highest number of lynchings without complaint from the population. But I guess some left-wing writer conjured up those statistics too.

        2. avatar Ted Unlis says:

          Too funny! You read it online (Wikipedia) so it must be true.

        3. avatar PavePusher says:

          So it’s O.K. to gun down innocent people as long as they are the Right people.

          Got it.

        4. avatar uncommon_sense says:


          First of all, how many of the people in attendance and more specifically how many of the people that Waco Police arrested and held for $1 million bond had no prior criminal convictions? Answer: more than 67% according to the article had no prior criminal convictions. Your portrayal of more than 67% of the people who attended as outlaws when they had no criminal convictions is not only incorrect, it is slander.

          Second of all, I wasn’t suggesting that the townsfolk of Waco have an ax to grind with the Waco Police Department. Rather, I was suggesting that the attendees who the Waco Police Department arrested/shot/killed have an ax to grind (or at least the friends/relatives of the deceased have an ax to grind).

          Finally, your attempt to discredit this article because it comes from a Progressive is a really bad approach. Why? Because, of all people, Progressives worship the Almighty State and their enforcers. Something really, REALLY obscene has to happen for a Progressive to smear their beloved enforcers of the Almighty State.

        5. avatar Ted Unlis says:

          Well uncommon, once again, you simply don’t have a clue what really happened, as far as “attendees arrested/shot/killed” the hard core patched members for the most part know or have a good idea who they shot and who shot them, and if it wasn’t law enforcement I guess time will tell if any of the attendees choose act out your fantasy and wish for violence against Waco area law enforcement in retaliation for an incident that was overwhelmingly biker on biker shootings and violence. Most of the hard core career criminals with a few years as patched members develop street smarts and survival instincts that usually don’t include a suicidal declaration of war on law enforcement, but who knows, maybe with enough urging and bull$#it from folks such as yourself there might be someone stupid enough to make your fantasy a reality, sort of like the losers at Black Lives Matters urged and bull$#itted sufficiently to trigger a cowardly attack launched by that piece of $#it in Harris County who executed Deputy Goforth. The rest of your bull$#it about “Progressives worship the Almighty State and their enforcers”, you’re delusional, don’t know what else to tell you Bubba. Stay safe.

        6. avatar Boxilar says:

          Wonder how much Ted is being paid to defend the Waco police department in various online forums and websites.

        7. avatar uncommon_sense says:


          Where do you get this notion that I have some “fantasy” about people retaliating against police?

          All I stated is that any police in the Waco area might want to relocate. And I stated that because:
          (1) It looks like the police opened fire, shot, and killed many attendees for no apparent reason.
          (2) It looks like the local criminal justice system was/is a sham.
          (3) I believe there is a non-trivial probability that survivors and family/friends of the dead victims will retaliate if the criminal justice system was/is a sham.

          There is no “fantasy” element to this. It is a simple observation of the limited information that is available and a simple conclusion based on that limited information, history, and human nature.

  10. avatar Rusty Chains says:

    Looks like there are plenty of Kangaroos in TX and most of them are employed by the court and the PD.

  11. avatar jwm says:

    Welcome to Texas. It was it’s own country once and still acts like it can make up its own rules.

  12. avatar Mike Smith says:

    Everyone please remember that this was a Political Action Meeting. A political group that the DPS and ATF wanted disbanded.

    If any media wanted to, they could actually run a line by line of what we all know happened with the various testimonies.

    Chief among them, that the LEO’s could have prevented what they testify that knew was coming. All they had to do is want to prevent it. They had the power, and those powers they use on a weekly basis.

    Then the Media could do a critique on what has been posited as “probable.” The probable is that the LEO’s involved fomented a riot between to clubs for political purposes. After all, they could have prevented it if they had WANTED TO PREVENT IT.

    The only good; but not great; publication for what happened and most importantly WHY it happened, is a short story on Amazon. “The Waco Texas Biker Massacre” gives a story that could well be true and one that every biker and nearly every citizen of Texas knows could be true.

    If everything that the LEO’s say is true, then they are responsible for not preventing the violence.

    If everything that they LEO’s say is true, then show us all every one of the videos that the LEO’s have been sitting on for four months. That includes the special surveillance cameras the ATF mounted on poles the day before the violence.

    The LEO’s (Law Enforcement Organizations) were gathered at the scene well before the violence erupted.

    Several days before the ATF erected “Pole Cameras” near the front door and the patio area of the restaurant.

    The largest Law Enforcement Union in Texas was on hand hours before the violence with supplies sufficient to last the officers during a protracted siege.

    The Justice of the Peace that wrote those arrest warrants was on hand hours before the violence. He was encamped with the LEO’s. No word on when those arrest warrants were prepared.

    According one eye witness; a member of the Cossacks MC in Waco; the Waco PD contacted members of his club and asked that they attend the meeting. According that witness, the Cossacks had not planned to attend prior to that.

    It is my belief, based upon decades of experience, that no one at the Twin Peaks was there with the advance intention of killing anyone else. I believe that the LEO’s were there to foment a riot and then use that riot as a pretext to arrest everyone present under the draconian state laws for organized crime. Then something went wrong and the scene devolved into a living hell for everyone there.

  13. avatar Larry says:

    Most of the pictures I saw they were all 3 patch clubs, so,certainly associated with 1%s. It’s the only way it’s allowed .

    1. avatar Ralph says:

      The meeting was arranged by the Texas Confederation of Clubs and Independents. The group was honored by the city council of Jacksonville, TX, the month before the Waco massacre, for helping to promote “Motorcycle Safety and Awareness Month.”

      Yup, that sounds scary to me.

    2. avatar PavePusher says:

      Did they actually do anything wrong, or is it O.K. to just shoot them at whim?

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        “to just shoot them at whim”, Pave you’re regurgitating the misinformation and propaganda that’s been put out for the benefit of some really hard headed and gullible souls.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          Then why is there a gag order, and why haven’t the videos been released?

    3. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      What’s a 3 patch club?

    4. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      3 patch clubs

      You mean like the Wild Pigs?

  14. avatar Ted Unlis says:

    The Dallas Morning News editorial is titled, “We appeal to the court: End gag order in Waco bikers case”. If such nonsense from the once mighty Dallas Morning News wasn’t so embarrassingly ridiculous it would be mildly amusing. Hard to believe a large news organization like the DMN could be so oblivious to the reality that both the McLennan County DA and Waco Police are completely and lawfully within discovery requirements pursuant to the Texas Code of Criminal Procedure and Rules of Evidence.

    Even if the gag order is lifted, the attorneys representing the biker thug defendants is the only party we’ll hear from with renewed indignant rants, spin, and propaganda carefully calculated to counter a massive amount of evidence they fear will expose a substantial number of the biker thug defendants to lengthy prison terms.

    Even if the Court relents to the demands of the DMN and other outlaw biker propagandist, the absence of a gag order can’t and won’t compel the DA or Police to release critical evidence in one of the largest murder investigations in Texas history such as a video depicting bikers executing bikers or conclusive and detailed ballistic evidence.

    It’s deceitful for the DMN to give credence to unhinged conspiracy theories suggesting the adherence to legal requirements in the discovery process amounts to misconduct by the DA and Police. Equally deceitful is the omission of any mention that the defense team for the biker thug defendants abandoned challenging probable cause supporting the mass arrests after losing examining trials from a visiting Judge not from Waco and appeals on defendants cherry picked by the defense as those likely to be the least culpable in the murderous rampage.

    If the Prosecution actually has the strong and compelling case it appears to have on a large number of the biker thug defendants, it would be negligent and unethical to release evidence simply to satisfy a misguided demand for political correctness originating from a minority of progressive liberal journalists and “1%er”s of the outlaw biker nation along with their wannabe hangarounds, sympathizers, and enablers.

    The Court was wise to issue the gag order to ensure a fair trial in a Court of Law. The defense teams for the biker thug defendants are desperate to commence the trial forthwith in the court of public opinion through misinformation, half truths, spin, and propaganda which is exactly what they’re doing currently through subterfuge by utilizing liberal operatives in the media like Chicago AP Reporter Emily Schmall and a clueless DMN Editorial Staff to disseminate their propaganda.

    Perhaps the most embarrassingly ridiculous aspect of this conspiracy theory idiocy are cries for Federal intervention; you don’t have to be very smart to figure out that the Obama Department of Justice would find it simply irresistible to pass on the opportunity for a civil rights action against the Waco Police Department which is located in the Christian conservative stronghold of McLennan County in a Republican dominated State of Texas. The fact that there’s been zero information or even rumors leaked from the USDOJ suggesting alleged misconduct or improprieties with the mass biker arrest means that the USDOJ has already seen the video of bikers executing bikers and read the ballistics report conclusively detailing who shot who.

    When all the evidence inevitably becomes known through discovery there’s going to be a lot of egg on the faces of the propagandist, enablers, and sympathizers; which of course they’ll respond to with updated and newly concocted conspiracy theories.

    1. avatar David Lo Pan says:

      Are you the grand jury foreman?

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        No, I’m not Waco Police Department Detective James Head. Actually there are two grand juries impaneled that will hear evidence on the murderous biker rampage, and I’m not the foreman on the other grand jury either. But I am someone who knows that all the conspiracy theorist are sure going to look like [email protected]$$es once the evidence and facts of the investigation become known.

        1. avatar PavePusher says:

          So, let it be known. Then you’ll be happy, right?

        2. avatar Ted Unlis says:

          They will let it be known just like is done in any other murder trial, by providing everything to the defense through discovery, and then during trial in a courtroom, no competent prosecutor is going to bare all the evidence to the news media, won’t happen. Here’s a link that may or may not help you grasp the concept of discovery in Texas. Generally with some exceptions, the State makes full disclosure of the evidence and everything else produced in the investigation after the defendant is formally charged, which in most cases is after indictment. The McClennan County DA, Waco PD, and any other LE agency involved in the investigation will comply with discovery requirements when required by law and not before.

    2. avatar Grindstone says:

      biker thug defendants

      What was that about a fair trial? Seems like you’ve already passed judgement.

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        Anyone that proudly identifies as a “1%er” outlaw biker and is a patched member of an outlaw motorcycle club which is one of the major gangs that’s been well documented as a criminal organization, yep that pretty well has it covered for my definition of thug, and the same goes for prospects, hangarounds, associates, collaborators, accomplices, and wannabe’s in lesser MC’s that affiliate and submit to the authority by paying tribute or dues to a major outlaw motorcycle club in exchange for the major gang’s blessing and permission for lesser club to exist, that describes the lesser clubs comprising the Confederation of Clubs. So if someone meeting any of the above described definitions has been arrested and their criminal trial is pending, yep, that would make them a defendant. Combine the two definitions above and there you have it, “biker thug defendant”. And of course they’re all presumed innocent until proven guilty in a Court of Law.

        1. avatar Grindstone says:

          But not in your court of opinion. Which is worth the paper it’s written on.

    3. avatar AD says:

      So, by all appearances, there are conflicts of interest involving the arrest affidavits, prosecution, and Grand Jury. There is some motivation by all of these parties who, in collusion with local judges, are attempting to cover up and suppress nearly all the facts. If their purposes were not nefarious then why the excessive bail?
      I’ve seen NO evidence that there is anything but some kind of conspiracy afoot.
      If there is indeed damning evidence against ALL of the nearly 200 arrested I would be very surprised. The discovery motions will be interesting, indeed.
      I don’t personally care if every single individual is guilty. However, justice is not to be done in secret, with corruption, and behind closed doors.

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        “By all appearances” according to the misinformation and propaganda you’ve read or heard. But those aren’t the facts and yes, you will be surprised.

        1. avatar PavePusher says:

          Tell us the facts then. Go ahead, we’re all ears.

        2. avatar LarryinTX says:

          You were there, or just “I know a secret”?

      2. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        And no, not everyone will take a fall on a murder rap, a number will manage to avoid prosecution in one way or another, and more will cop a plea to a lesser charge, but a significant number are screwed when the jury lays eyes on the video and their attorneys know or strongly suspect they’re screwed, which is exactly why they’re working so diligently to earn those handsome attorney fees they’re being paid to try the case in the court of public opinion using misinformation and propaganda.

        1. avatar LarryinTX says:

          You have seen a video? Why hasn’t anyone else?

    4. avatar uncommon_sense says:

      You want to talk about deceitful Ted? How about explaining all the dead attendees who died from rifle wounds — when none of the “violent biker dudes” had rifles on site?

      Read the autopsy report. Handgun bullets do not fragment and create large wounds. That would be .223 (or 5.56 x 45mm NATO) rounds from “patrol rifles”. The police shot and killed several “bikers”. The only question is, “Why?”

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        Did you make that all up by yourself or did all that speculative BS come from the forensic experts on staff at the Aging Rebel?

        1. avatar uncommon_sense says:


          People who comment often on this website read the autopsy reports that the medical examiner recently released. The autopsy reports described massive wounds with fragmented bullets. It is COMMON KNOWLEDGE among firearms enthusiasts that bullets fired from common handguns — which includes standard duty pistols that police routinely carry — do NOT create massive wounds nor cause bullets to fragment. It is also COMMON KNOWLEDGE among firearms enthusiasts that .223 Winchester / 5.56 x 45mm NATO bullets fired from common police “patrol rifles” DO fragment and cause massive wounds at close range.

          It is also COMMON KNOWLEDGE that a bullet cannot strike a person in the shoulder and travel down through their body into their abdomen unless the shooter was levitating up in the air above the victim and shooting straight down at a standing victim … or the shooter was on the ground shooting at the victim lying on the ground. Last time I checked, no one can levitate. That means the shooters were on the ground shooting people lying on the ground. Since the attendees were lying on the ground and the police were on the ground once the shooting started, that tells us that police were shooting the attendees lying on the ground. The fragmented bullets and massive wounds also tell us that police were using rifles to shoot people lying on the ground.

          I am not making up anything. These are FACTS from the preliminary autopsy reports. You should try reading them.

        2. avatar Ted Unlis says:

          Oh I see, common knowledge among firearm enthusiasts and preliminary autopsy reports, so you did make it up all by yourself.

          Let me ask you uncommon, once confronted with the reality that there is video of bikers executing bikers along with forensic firearms identification and ballistic test results establishing that only 2 or 3 of the 9 decedents were struck by projectiles from LE firearms, which will sway you, conclusive evidence or common knowledge?

        3. avatar LarryinTX says:

          I will still want to see the justification for police flat-out murdering “just” 2 or 3 of the dead.

        4. avatar Ted Unlis says:

          2 or 3 dead from a total of 12 rounds fired in an unquestionably justified use of deadly force by Waco PD Officers. Buy into all the bull$#it conspiracy theories and propaganda you want Larry, LE demonstrated amazing restraint that day, did their job, and still managed to go home at the end of their shift despite being greatly outnumbered in the middle of a $#it storm.

  15. avatar Accur81 says:

    Not good.

  16. avatar Former Water Walker says:

    Meh-I’m with Timmy!…like a biblical admonition “avoid all appearance of evil”…life’s ruff and you get lumped in with lowlifes…

    1. avatar PavePusher says:

      Odd, that’s not a part of any legal code I know of…..

      1. avatar Former Water Walker says:

        It means I don’t care PP. Stupid people doing stupid shite…

  17. avatar DCJ says:

    Let me see if I have this straight. The Waco PD is concerned about violence and public safety when the bikers gather at Twin Peaks right? So instead of putting uniformed officers on the premises (or blatantly identifiable plain clothes officers), they surround the area from afar? With weapons trained on the area? Really? WTF?

    What happened to crime prevention instead of near entrapment?

    And certainly the PD is not only at fault here. The local criminal justice system is as much thuggery as any one else involved in this debacle.

    This whole situation is a prime example of why we must always defend ALL of our rights and the rights of others.

    1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

      Waco PD got the heads up that there might be trouble brewing between the Bandidos and Cossacks and that their existing feud might boil over at the C of C meeting scheduled to take place at the Twin Peaks restaurant on that Sunday, that’s why Waco PD went to Twin Peaks management well in advance and first tried to convince management to cancel the event and then plan B was a suggestion to have uniformed officers stationed inside and outside of the Twin Peaks building during the event which management also rejected. So, on the day of the event about a dozen Waco PD uniformed officers in marked patrol cars and a couple of uniformed Texas State Troopers in marked patrol cars were in plain view on streets and parking areas adjacent to and in extremely close proximity (25 to 50 yds), but off the restaurant premises because Twin Peaks management did not want an LE presence on their property that might affect business with their valued outlaw biker customers. The massive police presence you might have seen in news footage came after the fact when LE officers on scene witnessing and responding to the murderous rampage despite being greatly outnumbered requested back up and boy did they get it; the closely knit LE Agencies in the Waco area sounded an all hands on deck alarm that resulted in it literally raining police within the first hour. Don’t know where you came up with the info “they surround the area from afar”, but I assure you it’s an outright lie.

      1. avatar LarryinTX says:

        You’re getting all these “facts” from the novel you’re writing?

  18. avatar Richard Hawkins says:

    Hey guys want to hear a great joke? “The American Justice System!” Badumtsh.

  19. avatar Azrael Mackay says:

    The people on here trying to claim these guys are just a bunch of innocent victims are horribly misguided. These guys are members of well known criminal organizations. I.E., The members of the Bandidos have been indicted and imprisoned for murder, drug trafficking and other illicit activities. The FBI considers them an outlaw motorcycle gang. I’m not too torn up about there being a few less of these sacks of s%[email protected]

    1. avatar Grindstone says:

      Then you don’t really understand the true meaning of the 2nd Amendment, if you blindly support government street execution.

  20. avatar Out_Fang_Thief says:

    Not that I’m defending the police in this matter, but I have known a few Harley Davidson riders who like to dress as though they belonged to a biker gang, even though they aren’t, and never were. What is the saying, avoid stupid people, doing stupid things? I you want to be mistaken by the Po-Po as an outlaw biker type, then by all means, dress-up like you’re a dangerous, outlaw biker type. Better yet, meet up in places that known outlaw biker types are gathering. So many people want to act like they’re dangerous outlaw bikers, until they don’t. Birds of a feather do, flock together. As we now know, they also can get shot together. Go figure?

    1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

      By your reasoning all 500,000 riders who attend the Sturgis Bike Rally are scium. All the ones I know are engineers and managers.

      1. avatar Ted Unlis says:

        The majority of folks who make the annual pilgrimage to Sturgis are just role players in their own little too cool fantasy where they can pretend and dress up like an outlaw biker for total immersion in the outlaw biker culture while observing and/or participating in outlaw biker antics and debauchery. So Danny, your engineer and manager acquaintances might well be decent folks in the real world and only act like scum when they’re in Sturgis.

        1. avatar Danny Griffin says:

          role players in their own little too cool fantasy where they can pretend and dress up like an outlaw biker

          You mean like the Wild Pigs?

        2. avatar Animal says:

          You are a friggin idiot. You have no knowledge of motor sickle clubs other than your twisted and one sided and prejudiced attitude. You have no idea what the term “1%er” means. It DOES NOT MEAN CRIMINAL. Cops have twisted it’s meaning to fit their own agenda. How will you act when it is your turn?

      2. avatar LarryinTX says:

        Danny, the best story about Sturgis I heard during 5 years in Rapid City was a pair of NYC investment bankers who took a month off work, spent 2 weeks prior to leaving without shaving or showering or putting on clean clothes, then trailered their bikes (70s Harleys were anything but reliable) to Rapid City before cranking up and heading for the rally. Everybody wants to be a bad guy. And that fits right into the stupid people doing stupid things.

  21. I have ridden over 500,000 miles and have facial hair. I am a life member of the NRA, DAV, ABATE of California and the BMW motorcycle club. I am a veteran and a Presidential candidate. After you elect me I will put NCIS to work finding the truth and there will be no gag order and those responsible for the cover will be held accountable. Thanks for your support and vote. Pass the word.

  22. avatar Animal says:


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