“This year, 11 individuals were murdered and five committed suicide in Israel using privately owned weapons, said Internal Security Minister Yizhak Aharonovich Wednesday.” And? With so many enemies surrounding it, with a long, bloody history of terrorist infiltration and attack (and civilian counter-attack against same), you’d figure Israelis would accept that number as an acceptable trade-off for the security created by individual armed self-defense. Nope . . .
At a meeting of the the Internal Affairs Committee on reducing weapons, headed by MK Miri Regev, Aharonovich stated that as part of the gun reform in Israel, anyone who wishes to receive a gun permit will be required to undergo a medical and psychological examination. “If they won’t pass the psychologist’s test, they’ll have to see a psychiatrist.”
According to ynetnews.com, Israeli citizens seeking to renew their gun permit will be required to provide “liable cause.” What more . . .
The minister announced that a new police order will be introduced under which an individual who has not renewed his license in over six months will be subject to criminal investigation. Aharonovich said that over 290,000 guns are in the hands of private individuals and security guards, and that he strives to lower that number.
I guess “never again” means dial 100. Madness. [h/t DrVino]
That is just crazy!
290,000 guns and 11 murders? That’s probably a lower rate than people killed by cigarettes or car crashes. And, unlike cigs, guns serve a positive societal purpose. Especially in freaking Israel. 5 suicides? Gosh that’s low.
You know, the funniest thing about this is that if there were ZERO guns you’d probably still have 9 of those same murders and all 5 of those same suicides succeeding anyway!
Actually, if guns were banned, that homicide rate would skyrocket, since, as we all know, when guns are banned, only bad guys will have guns.
This just pisses me of RF! I know better than most what it is like to live there. Thank you Zipi and the rest of the left wing nuts jobs!
Progressives are like a cancer, slowly growing and spreading until the host dies.
It’s NOT like a cancer, it IS cancer! And it is way past time to nuke the hell out of it!
I actually believe that Progressivism is, like Islamo/Fascism, a political manifestation of sociopathy
You can replace “Islamo/Facism” with “fundamentalism, facism”. I have met enough crazy people to warrant that.
NOTE: Facism and fundamentalism are two different things.
It’s totalitarian communism by another name – one deliberately chosen to hide the truth.
The same applies to “liberal” when Socialist is the reality.
We should all be calling them by their real names.
There is indeed a big difference between the secular Jew (commie rat, atheist, libtard, evil) and the religious one.
As a member of the Tribe myself, I never cease to be amazed at my co-religionists’ self-destructive urges. We are plagued with individuals like Schumer, Feinstein, Boxer, Sugarmann, Lautenberg (thankfully deceased), Bloomberg, etc., etc., ad nauseam, all dedicated to disarming all the unimportant rest of us, plus all the Jewish liberals who support this nonsense. “Never again?” Fuggedabatit. An unarmed Jew is a dead Jew, AFAIK.
I thought there were TWELVE tribes! Make up your mind.
Yeah, ditto. NEVER AGAIN.
I’m sick and tired of these secular libs who were born to Jewish parents.
Their parents were Jewish Socialists a belief system that allowed them to deny their heritage
That is because they are Liberals first and conveniently Jewish, second, when necessary.
I don’t get the self-destructive urges either. It isn’t just the pro Leftist nanny-police/security state Jews leading the lemmings off the cliff. During the 1930s in Europe it was the Rabbis who urged the German Jews to ignore the Nazis who would go away like a bad dream. A decade later most of those Jews were mass murdered and they couldn’t dream anymore.
Sucking up to Obuma.
additonal evidence of the neutering of the West.
Not sure what you mean.
I’m in the tribe too, or as a ex-military friend once said, the “Bagel Mafia”….anyways the religion has a massive liberal/socialist streak in it. Amazing, 1/2 the world wants you dead and yet you do nothing to help yourself.
Fools like that only hasten evil things along. Sad. I hope the Government sees reason.
Oh and nice pic BTW! 😉
I’ll bet the magazine is real happy.
+1 That’s one nice AR accessory…
Tzipi is a loon. They need to get rid of her and Aharonovich.
I have tons more respect for Zippy the Pinhead than for that despot.
How do you say WTF in Yiddish?
Probably “Oy Gevalt” http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=oy%20gevalt
FYI Robert, I think you may have just had a minor relapse. ‘Cause for some of us, THAT is an Israeli super model!
Or they could fight that sh!t en masse and stop it before it begins. Confiscate 290 K guns? No thanks.
Just want to point out that no other nation in the world has the same view on self-defense as the United States. Currently, we own firearms almost exclusively for self-defense against other individuals. There’s quite a bit of rhetoric on this blog about owning guns to “defend ourselves against government tyranny,” but be realistic: we all know that a civil war is extremely unlikely to occur right now. In most “pro-gun” Westernized countries (and I use that term very liberally, considering how pro-gun the US is in comparison), such as Switzerland, Australia and Finland, firearms are used for militia service, sporting or hunting. You want to shoot Nazis in defense of the nation? Fine. You want to shoot the guy who breaks into your house at night? No dice.
Remember that the Supreme Court has recognized two separate rights in the second amendment: the right to bear arms in participation of a well-regulated militia, and the right to bear arms for the purpose of individual self-defense. We are lucky to be one of the few Western nations in the world which is pro-self-defense and pro-gun at the same time.
I can’t speak of all the countries you mentioned, but within limitations you certainly can shoot a burglar in the night if you have no options…in England and Switzerland.
You can shoot a burglar in any country as long as you have a shovel and a carpet you dont really want anymore
those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. sorry, but anyone is who Jewish, Black, or American Indian needs to be on the front line demanding gun rights. . . . . .
During WWII, Jewish partisans were murdered by anti-Semitic Polish partisans.
There are the same kind of people in the Libertarian Party. Jews have to watch their backs and their fronts.
WTF does this have to do with the Libertarian party?
I get that this site is becoming the go-to for all the American jewry’s airing of grievances, real and imagined, but seriously? If the group you’re most afraid of is LP USA, you’re ignorant, a lunatic, or a current politician.
And if you don’t see the mass of of anti-jewish comments all over the WWW coming from the immoral faux conservatives who voted for Obama for free pot and open borders and call themselves “libertarians”, then you’re blind or lying.
Huh? This site becoming the site for ALL of American Jewry airing grievances-
No, actually, speaking strictly for myself, as I’ve been here reading and posting once in a while since Feb 2011, I can say you are flat wrong- I see much less commentary about Jewish anything- other than hot-chicks of the mediterranean variety that happend to be the owners favorite flavor, that some of us more prudish-PC types have bullied him out of, sadly…
So you MIGHT be projecting a bit there Rand-Fan-Boy Anarcho-Nihilo Activist-Angry guy or whatever you are. (thats sort of a scatter shot insult to see if you spin the top of your head right off- its a dead giveaway…)
Truly, I don’t know enough about the Libertarian Party to give a complete opinion, but I do have to say when I read something particularly odious and stupid along the lines of NWO Agenda 21 Area 51 tin-foil-hat nuttery, it tends to come from that direction, rather than the old reliable KKK Aryan Militia jailhouse tattoo’d meat-heads of the past.
YMMV, and I’m waiting to be educated – pls – but on another thread- pls a link to your favorite toxic waste pit of the mind, as I am have stumbled upon way too many on the innertubes where the debate on Joooooossss is current and topical…and spit flies off maddened twisted lips…
The point here is about well meaning peaceful hippy wannabe types stupidly disarming themselves in a time of danger- more incredible in Israel surrounded by enemies, but equally apropro here in US, if you consider the changing nature of of the terrorist foe, and narco-criminals slowly spreading thru the southwest.
Has nothing to do with religion, actually- more to do with mental instability on the prog-marxist left, and young people raised in safe little suburbs who havent had the chance to travel to a big city, or someplace overseas in the real world.
Look at England if you need a historical example a few years ahead of us, of why it matters, to confront those well meaning nitwits, if you dont want to lose your right to defend your family when things get ugly, or you find yourself making a wrong turn into the bad part of town, by mistake on a trip someday.
and call themselves “libertarians”
Key part of this sentence be “call themselves”
These people are not libertarians by any definition of the word. Insisting on saying they are simply because they say they are is disingenuous at best.
No head spinning from me, I’ve been here a few years now and have seen both sides of the zionism coin in these here comments. Here’s the trick, if you’re “for” or “against” you can’t be a libertarian, because technically you would have to go with the third option, which is essentially “meh” as Israel has no bearing on the US whatsoever except as far as politicians manifest reasons from their addled brains.
Perhap you have heard of the Kapos as well???
Worry about the marxists not the Constitutionalists fella.
There are many wings and factions within the Libertarian Party. On a practical level, I’m far more concerned with the increasingly Leftist Democrat Party and the people in it turning on Jews than potential dangers from other Parties.
Dirk Diggler, yeppers. OFWG suburbanites need guns a lot less than a lot of other folks who might not be so welcome in the local gun shop. I know you’re well aware of the history of AIM and the Panthers.
Agitator, I’m going to play my anti-Semite callout card. You say:
“I get that this site is becoming the go-to for all the American jewry’s airing of grievances, real and imagined, but seriously? If the group you’re most afraid of is LP USA, you’re ignorant, a lunatic, or a current politician.”
Not in RF’s wildest Israeli Fashion Model dreams is TTAG a go-to for “American Jewry’s airing of grievances.”
Correct me if I’m wrong.
That said, I, along with about half of Israelis, believe that Israel has become a racist apartheid state, much to it’s own detriment.
The Hamas warlords are also a bunch of assholes.
“…those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.”
And those who do study history are doomed to watch in horror while it happens.
Most European immigrants have a slave in their family if you go back a generation or two. Very few people were landowners.
There have been more restrictions for years than most people recognize. The standard limit has been ONE gun for years, and at age 70, just when you can’t run so fast or use a baseball bat so well, they pull your permit. Tzipi had nothing to do with those rules.
As for Feinstein et al, it seems they view themselves as the priests. “Pay your Temple tax and shutup! You’re just trouble makers. We have armed guards for people like you!” Or so it seems to me. The minute THEY feel threated by enemies at the gate, of course, they’re shoving rifles in our hands and commanding us to soldier up on pain of prison.
“Tzipi had nothing to do with those rules.”
You’re right, Tzipi will only hand over half of Jerusalem and Israel to the jihadistinians.
I never could understand why Israel disarms its citizens.
Military service is mandatory and pretty much everyone
over 18 gets basic firearms training. If they were
untrustworthy enough to disarm, why give them military
weaponry for 3 years.
My guess is because the Arabs that live there are also full-fledged citizens. Would you want to make it easy for them to get guns, too??
Easy peasy – to legally carry require either military service or national service, and to get into either, make a public declaration ON TV of allegiance to the JEWISH STATE OF ISRAEL.
Set up a “Civilian Marksmanship Program” and an NRA and teach rifle marksmanship starting at age 5. Manditory particpation. Worked with the English longbow and 18 is too late start.
Or perhaps friend Obuma will take care of everything with our Patriot batteries and cute little model airplanes. Or perhaps not, as he dismantles DOD.
“JEWISH state of Israel”–this is the crux of the issue. Unlike the U.S., Canada, etc., full citizenship in Israel requires observance of the Jewish faith. Anyone can convert to Judaism (preferably, via the Orthodox route) and be eligible for Israeli citizenship like that. But Arabs (again, Christians as well as Muslims) whose families have been living in what is now Israel since before the first Kibbutznik pitched a tent can lose their rights to residency if they are out of the country for more than a few months. And what’s amazing is that Evangelical Christians in the U.S. and elsewhere (including Canada’s PM) seem unconcerned, or blissfully ignorant that this is happening to CHRISTIANS in the region:
I live in a city with a Muslim Mayor. New York has a Jewish Mayor. In Canada, America, or any other modern, pluralistic country, a citizen is a citizen, PERIOD, regardless of his faith. But could you imagine Ankara with a Christian Mayor, or Tel Aviv with a Christian Mayor? I really can’t fathom why an American–living in a country with a constitution guaranteeing equality and freedom, regardless of religion–would cheer a country imposing a religious requirement on citizenship. Really, gun rights are just the icing, here.
That’s what you get living in a theocracy. As far as I know the only ones on the planet are Israel, Iran, and Tibet.
And yet someone wrote a post on TTAG a few weeks ago about how Jews aren’t anti-gun….
No. It was about the fact that not all Jews are anti-gun, just as all gun owners aren’t old, fat, white guys. It readily admitted that a shocking percentage of Jews are anti-gun, especially considering the history of persecution. Now if you have skewed that into “Jews aren’t anti-gun” or “no Jews are anti-gun” then you are doing so because of a personal bias. At NO point did I say anything like what you claim I said. I suggest you read that post again; especially the very beginning. In fact, here’s the first sentence: “I truly do not understand how so many members of my tribe – that is to say, Jewish folk – can say and mean “Never forget,” and simultaneously push for civilian disarmament.”
Additionally, Israel being anti-gun is no more proof that Jews are than Japan, Australia, Mexico, the UK, or Chicago or California or African Americans being anti-gun is. The laws and policy decisions are not based on religious doctrine.
“Additionally, Israel being anti-gun is no more proof that Jews are than Japan, Australia, Mexico, the UK, or Chicago or California or African Americans being anti-gun is. “
Except for that fact that essentially the entire frakking population of Israel is Jewish. Probably more Jews there than anywhere else on the planet. So if they aren’t a good representative of what a Jew is, no one is.
42% of the world’s Jews live in Israel. 39.5 in the US and the rest are spread out in other countries. While much of the population of Israel is Jewish, nearly 25% are Arab or other nationalities. Just sharing the facts, I have no problem with your premise. I like facts, especially when it comes to Israel.
Jews in Israel are very different than most Jews in other parts of the world. Living in the land of Israel that also happens to be in the middle of the craziest countries in the world, changes you.
42% in Israel and 39.5% in the US.
And from a cursory glance, most of those two near-halves frequently support civilian disarmament policies. Jews in the US typically trend towards liberal progressive politics and engender all the bullet-list political beliefs that are expected of a good liberal..
Yeah, JPFO and all that. I know. Doesn’t change the fact that a large percentage of the gun-banning politicians in the US just miraculously happen to be Jewish.
I realize I have provided no statistics on either of these claims. I just figured that most “people of the gun,” as we would say, might have noticed.
Except for the fact that the jinos in America are as anti-gun as the CINOS are in America, while the JEWS in Israel are not.
But don’t let that get in the way of your need to bash Jews, ok Shickengruber lover?
In no way did the post/stats from Jeff bash Jews.
It is easy to research the real number of Jews, Arab Muslims and Arab Christians in Israel.
neiowa, I too was at first trying to figure out how I bashed Jews in my post, but it looks like he was talking to Totenglocke.
I just find the situation unfortunate all around, that the Jewish people by and large seemingly have bought into the disarmament BS, just like a lot of other cultures have today.
Judaism is a religion, and not a political ideology. Like, say, Catholics, opinions on everything from gun control to gay rights run the gamut of ideological directions. There are also many Israeli Jews who are bitterly unhappy with what the state is doing to Palestinians, and who risk jail and worse as conscientious objectors from the IDF.
What is very different about Israel is the political culture and legal traditions. Israel is NOT part of the Anglosphere, or post-War pluralistic European civil society. Israel is, like Turkey, a corporatist state, secular, but with a dominant religious group. Rights like free expression and dissent against the state are severely restricted. This is completely unlike the U.S., in every respect.
Murphy, Brady, Malloy, McCain, Leahy, Toomey, Markey, McCaskill, Casey, McCarthy, Quinn, O’Malley, Murray, Tierney, McGovern, Kennedy, Moran, McDermott — just scratching the gungrabber surface here and none of them are Jews.
Erin go bragh.
Shhh, you’ll give the moron a headache.
Another demographic, historically oppressed and deprived of the right to arms and self defense, who, one would think, would be championing that right so to protect the people from what happened to their (our) ancestors.
Dear Lord, Please send us some of those Sicarii fellows. We could use their daggers but modern firearms are okay too. In Jesus’ name we pray. Amen.
This article belies the myth that Israelis are more armed than Americans. The only Israelis who can get arms relatively easily are the ones living in Judea and Samaria. They have to defend themselves against the terrorists living on the other side of the fence.
In another post someone pointed-out how the massive number of civilian owned arms in the United States caused the Imperial Japanese Army and, apparently, Hitler’s Wehrmacht to dismiss the idea of invading the United States back in WWII. So, one would think an extra 290,000 armed Citizens in Israel would be viewed as a good thing since they are surrounded by hostiles and potential hostiles who greatly outnumber them and don’t even have to mount a Sea Borne Invasion to get at them. Even though a lot of those arms may be handguns, they shoot an enemy invader just as dead as a longarm in close quarters within a city. But I guess it would take some measure of insight and intelligence to figure that out, and, like the US, that is sadly lacking in Israeli Politicians these days. Sixteen dead…I think some Jihadists have killed that many in single suicide bombings, so WTF are they thinking?
Hopefully some of those 290,000 guns are used for their correct purposes, killing enemies to the state. Foreign and domestic.
Simply shameful. As a Jew with close ties to Israel, this makes me very angry.
Oy vey, you mean it isnt just Jews in America who are behind gun control? Its another Shoah!
“Hooray!” yelled the Palestinians.
Israel will come to us when they are overrun. And our government will bail them out.
An interesting anecdote regarding the WWII Liberator pistol is relevant here.Turns out the big reason why the French Resistance Leader( quit laughing) De Gaulle opposed its introduction is because his postwar political ambitions required that his likely opponents be disarmed.
That lesson reinforces the headline thus;whether the politician is a Frenchman ,Israeli,or American, they view armed individuals who do not report to them as a direct threat to their power.That Israeli politician fears their armed population more then any Arab army.
I think he just figured a way around the no links to supermodels rule. The chick with the AR is HOT!
A nice ass and great legs do not make a girl “hot.” She’s about halfway there. The question is, do I need a paper bag or not?
Well just Remember that Gun Control
… is Always about “Control”.
It provides a handy system to deny weapons to arab Israeli’s, Those “in the wrong party” as well as “Conservative, Religious, and Pissed Off” Israelis, when their national leardership cuts deals with killers for nothing in return, and bends over to take it in the rear from the likes of “Christmas in Cambodia”, John Kerry, Secretary of State of the US.
RF – I’d like to hear an Israeli’s take on this (one who sides with gun control). How do they rationalize “never again” with disarmament? Have any contacts who can speak/write well on this topic?
At least liable cause should be easy…dear minister I need a firearm because of the millions of Arabs that hate my guts that live so close I can hit them with a rock from my house.
Do we know which of them old guys was the primary pusher of the 2nd ammendment into our Constitution? I’d like pour a shot in his/their honor. At least get them a holiday, even if only some of us honor it.
Jews in Israel also barely tolerate each other. Conflicts between the secular Ashkenazi majority and the Haradim, Ethiopian Jews, Russian Jews, etc. have occasionally erupted into violence. And the IDF and settlers are not exactly warm and fuzzy toward the Arab population, which also includes (though America’s powerful Evangelical lobby tries to pretend otherwise) a large Christian population. Like Turkey, Singapore, or other similar political systems, the Israeli state relies on a police monopoly on the use of force, as well as a fairly brutal state security apparatus to keep the country intact.
The Second Amendment came from the English Bill of Rights. Israel’s legal traditions did NOT come from this source. Rather, the Israeli political system (Zionism) shares bloodlines with 20th Century European corporatism, not unlike Turkey’s Kemalism, or the Ba’athism that used to rule Egypt and Iraq. The citizens serve the state, rather than the other way around. Like Turkey, Israel is a democracy, with some concessions to things like religious freedom. But it is NOT a pluralistic, individual rights-centred country like the U.S., Canada, or Britain.
+1 Yep. Which is why Israel can compel all citizens, men and women, to serve in the military.
Can you imagine the outrage among the rich and shameless here in the US if their 18 year old spawn were forced to serve in the infantry in the Army?
“… Israel can compel all citizens, men and women, to serve in the military.” Unless you’re studying scripture (and making babies) full-time. Which annoys the Hell out of a lot of Israelis. They may have corrected that by now; I’ve lost touch.
Armed people fly their colors, disarmed people wear theirs. Never again. This kind of nonsense just boggles my mind. How quickly we forget and now it’s Jews disarming other Jews. I’m astounded by how my people embrace victim hood.
European Jews embraced Marxism as a means to escape the oppression they experienced there, because of Lenin there has been a multi-generational embrace of socialism which demands an end to individualism, humanity being envisioned as a sort of amoeba. Control of the Collective is far more important than individual rights/survival
“Armed people fly their colors, disarmed people wear theirs.”
Are we watching carefully?
Remember the disarmament that occurred, before Christ came, by the Iinfluence of the Roman Empire?
“History repeats itself, again.”
I could care less about what Israel does.
Its fitting that a nation filled with hubris and a tendency to flex its military muscle would have civilians disarmed.
“Its fitting that a nation filled with hubris and a tendency to flex its military muscle would have civilians disarmed.”
Sounds like the United States of America…
How about mailing a Yellow Star of David Arm Band to all the anti-gun Jewish politicians in America and Israel?
Israel, like it’s sort-of ally Turkey, is NOT a Western-style pluralistic society, centred around civil rights. The political system is more corporatist in nature, and full membership as a citizen requires one to be a member of the dominant ethno-religious group. Israel has an active interethnic conflict with the large and disenfranchised Arab (Christian, as well as Muslim) minority, as well as Jew-on-Jew conflict, with the Haradim and others. There is also a powerful and occasionally pretty nasty state security apparatus, with powers that make the Patriot Act seem tame. Torture, arbitrary arrest and violence, and often savage vindictiveness (e.g., bulldozing homes of relatives of suspected insurgents). The Israeli state does NOT trust people with guns. American conservatives have been brainwashed into thinking that Israel is some sort of U.S. clone–it is not.
Pharasees & Saducees (without the slightest concept of a True Faith) doing the same things over again, only this time, at the End of this System of Things.
“It is because of your hard-heartedness…”
Great thread in general. I’ve gotten some views on Israeli culture and politics I haven’t often encountered before.
More pictures of the beach in Israel, pls.
Nick Leghorn says:
May 12, 2013 at 18:09
The Truth About Farago
Nothing but Israeli models and funny YouTube videos.
I am still waiting for more funny youtube vids 🙂
A couple points here…
1) The Nazis didn’t START gun control in Germany. They RADICALLY LOOSENED it. The whole “1935 will go down in history. We’ve finally become gun-free” is quite simply a lie. During the Wiemar years and before handguns were essentially illegal. Rifles and shotguns were severely restricted. The Nazi government removed almost all long-arm and several handgun restrictions for most people. Certain classes of people like Party members were exempted from even more. The only exceptions were Jews and similar who were considered enemies of the State. If you were an illegal alien, criminal and suspected traitor (Jew, Roma, etc.) you were out of luck. If you were a good, law-abiding German citizen the Nazi years weren’t bad for gun owners.
2) Israel has never had a permissive attitude towards private gun ownership let alone a tradition of American-style CCW privileges. Neither has the other poster-child for gun ownership, Switzerland. At most, active duty soldiers and members of the ORGANIZED GOVERNMENT militia or Reserves have taken their duty weapons home with them. And even that has changed in both nations over the years.
3) Israel has a long history of dealing effectively with terrorism. The military, Intelligence and law enforcement institutions there do not consider random armed citizens to be an effective counter-measure. Armed, trained people in certain high-risk areas? Certainly. I knew parents who sat at desks in school entryways or accompanied students. They were given rifles and already had military training. But Israel’s experience has not borne out the fantasies or political agendas of some of the people on this list concerning widespread carrying of handguns and its effect on determined terrorist attacks.
4) Israel is Israel. The United States is the United States. They have different legal and cultural traditions. Importing one into the other will not work anymore than importing, say, Sharia rules about charity, concern for orphans and the poor tax into American Law would make the US more charitable.
5) That said, the US is not Israel. Adopting their much more restrictive laws wouldn’t be a good fit for this country with its traditions and culture. I trust Americans to know what works best for America and Israelis to know what works best for Israel.
I had a Palestinian client who told me that only respectable people like engineers, lawyers, and doctors should be allowed to own guns. I asked him how that worked out in 1947-1948. He got the point. He won’t be going back to the family farm anytime soon as people with guns made people without guns move somewhere else. Not everybody thinks gun control in Israel is a bad thing. His brothers in the refugee camps under Hamas and the PLO don’t have to pass a psychological test to own guns. If you exclude the people who can’t pass a “psychological” test or who don’t have a good reason to have a gun, when you need their help with defense, or to get your farm back, they won’t be able to help. I guess the Israeli politcians can decide what they have to do to be ready for the 1947-48 replay.
Gun control to keep the civilians from owning guns so as to reduce terrorist attacks from neighboring countries….
…yea, that aughta work.
Is this guy form Israel or California.