don't marry a bride who shoots at you
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don't marry a bride who shoots at you

We previously met Male Concubine during our chat about underwater shooting. He wanted to let everyone know that the opinions expressed within these interviews are solely his own, not those of the management.

ED: Hey there, Male Concubine. Thanks for joining us again.

MC: No problem, my pleasure. That last interview blew up exactly how I told you it would, didn’t it? I warned you.

ED: Well, I hope you had plenty of popcorn.

MC: So what are we gonna talk about today?

ED: When I met you many years ago, one of the first things you ever told me about yourself was that you had once been married to someone who shot at you. There’s been a lot of discussion lately about domestic violence here so I wanted to ask you about that if you don’t mind talking about it. Because you’re still here and alive to tell the tale.

MC: I’m still alive to tell the tale.

Long story short, in my previous occupation, I met a female who was aspiring to become a physician. We began dating, but then my work took me to the Philippines, and while I was there she came over to visit me, at which time I hastily proposed and she accepted. So by the time I returned to the United States and got married, I’d had some second thoughts. But I figured, I’m a guy, I can fix anything.

My post-proposal experience, however, indicated that I couldn’t fix this.

ED: Was she someone who was trained in shooting or had experience with firearms?

MC: This individual had a high IQ with schizophrenic tendencies. Initially, she lacked the paranoid delusions associated with homidical actions. She had a master’s degree with Ph.D. work in artificial intelligence. On paper, she was about a 168 IQ but she didn’t have the coping mechanisms to deal with conflict.

So, as our personal relationship developed, when there was conflict, she responded physically. And then, very shortly after getting married, whatever tenuous control she had on alcohol consumption dissipated. So factor in emotional instability with drinking, plus she was putting herself through medical school after getting fired from the Department of Defense. She had some lower-quality weapons, and was capable of okay shooting Not great, not bad, but was extremely resistant to intelligent and methodical correction of shooting techniques.

ED: So you’re saying you tried to teach her?

MC: I tried to help her. She asked me to. One of the things I learned from being raised with four sisters is that I couldn’t tell girls shit. The only way that the information’s gonna resonate is if they ask you, and if they ask you when they are prepared to accept the input.

My ex wife was not capable of that kind of acceptance so I didn’t offer until she asked. At some point, though, her need to be smarter than me took over, so she finally asked. But since she considered herself smarter than me, she then wanted to do it her way. Skewed logic. No matter how smart you are, if it doesn’t work, you gotta change what you’re doing to make it work. Her mindset was that she was never the cause of any problem, though.

As she ran out of invented ways to express her displeasure with me, that was when she commenced shooting at me. The insult was that she was shooting at me with a weapon that I bought her so that she could have a conceal carry weapon. It was a Model 640 Smith & Wesson five-shot .357 with a stainless steel shrouded hammer. Basically a J-frame on steroids.

ED: So wait…It sounds like this happened more than once.

MC: It happened four times. Not one after the other. There was a remission period here and there of her symptoms. After the first time, I got her friends involved because they understood her grasp on reality was tenuous. After the first time, it was actually about a year and a half before she shot at me again.

ED: I have to ask. What was your thought process about continuing to be married to someone who had shot at you? For most people, I kind of think once would be enough.

MC: The easiest way I can explain this is that my parents were married until my mother passed away. And they weathered her extreme alcoholism along with all her aberrant behavior associated with that. The fallacy in my thinking was since my father could weather this, he must have had an active hand in keeping my mother from getting even worse, which was erroneous. I realized much later in life that he was actually dealing with it by just going to work and avoiding the whole thing and letting nature take its course.

When I began to take some type of active interest in gently trying to herd my ex wife in the direction of treatment, utilizing clergy, friends, and mental health professionals, we all thought that she was receptive. Initially she began to follow that, but it didn’t last long.

ED: So did you take her gun away after the first time she shot at you? You didn’t say she hit you.

MC: She didn’t hit me. The first time she shot at me she was from about 20-25 feet away. I replaced the door jamb after that 146 grain softpoint bullet broke it, since I couldn’t close the door in the house. I also had to repaint the pickup truck, since she put two holes in the cab and one in the bed. I had to fix those holes and then repaint.

ED: But you didn’t take the gun away?

MC: Nah, I left the house for a couple of days until she stopped drinking and calmed down. She was super paranoid about the public finding out, so I just talked to her privately when I went home.

Yes, I know I should have removed the weapons from the home at that point. But I started working with her and things seemed to kind of even out and there were periods of relative normalcy. The problem was that things could shift in a nanosecond. You could never tell whether she was going to respond appropriately or with violence.

As distance grew between us, I changed the combination on the safe so that she couldn’t gain access to the weapons. And I gave her that old five-shot Charter Arms that I talked about in our first interview that I still had laying around instead.

ED: Wait…you gave her another gun?

MC: I made the lesson less mechanically reliable to assuage her suspicion that I was limiting her exposure to weapons. So I just gave her one that didn’t work so well. It would fire a live round maybe once every 15 or 20 trigger pulls. It was like sawing a piece of wood, you had to work at it. You could get there, but you would work up a sweat doing it.

I gave it to her because I’d noticed that she would feel satisfied if she pointed a weapon at me and squeezed the trigger. The fact that it wouldn’t go off was completely secondary.

ED: But didn’t you feel worried that during one of those 15 or 20 squeezes it would go off?

MC: I figured I generated the original problem by asking her to marry me. I was either going to fix it or die trying. Hey, you asked.

So, the first and second times she shot at me were with the 640. The third time she tried to shoot me was with that Charter Arms. She just kept squeezing the trigger and eventually it went off. After that I locked up all the weapons and changed the combination on the safe. That was when she gave me the permanent scalp damage by hitting me over the head with a frozen liter bottle of Corona beer, trying to knock me out. It cracked my skull at the juncture of three plates. I’ve got a permanent depression in my scalp because of that.

After that happened, I sat down with her after she sobered up and said, “Look, I’m done. You’ve shot at me three times, so you’re leaving me no choice but to get the cops involved.” And then I made a near fatal mistake.

ED: What was that?

MC: I didn’t leave. We went on a vacation together, and when we came back, that’s when she shot at me for the fourth time with the 640 and the sheriff finally got involved. I still don’t know how she got into the safe. It ultimately cost me as small fortune to deal with a situation that ended in her being tasered out of the house.

ED: You must be glad that you actually couldn’t teach her to be a better shot.

MC: Until this moment, I’ve actually never thought about that. I’ve had several instances where I know the Lord has been a presence in my life, and the last time that she shot at me, there was ample evidence that despite my horn dog ways as a younger man before I got married, I had finally paid my debt for the ways I had hurt women earlier in my life. It was an act of penance that I believe was a result of my behavior earlier in life. Not physically, I was never abusive, but if it had a skirt, I was chasing it.

ED: So did you regard this as being kind of like doing Hail Marys, only through someone shooting at you?

MC: I never thought about it like that. I just knew that I was less than desirable. If I’d had a son, I would not have wanted him emulating my behavior. I would have been quite disappointed.

ED: Why do you think your ex wife missed you so many times?

MC: Oh, the Lord. The very last time, she was less than two feet away from me. I was looking down the muzzle of the weapon. But somehow it struck the ground by my left foot. I was so close that there was no powder stippling or burns on me anywhere. But somehow that round didn’t hit me, and then I watched her try to fire the rest of the rounds and the 640 wouldn’t go off. I know she tried. The Lord saved me that day. There’s no question about it. He wouldn’t let that gun go off.

I stood up and walked past her out of the house. And as I got to the door, the Lord whispered in my ear. He said, “It’s all on you.” That was my walk of faith.

In my life, I’ve been shot three times, stabbed twice, been in several rotary and fixed wing forced aircraft landings. And that day was the only time in my life I’ve ever thought I was going to be killed.

ED: And here you are.

MC: Here I am.

ED: Thanks for sharing all that with us.

MC: You’re welcome. Thanks for asking.

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    • Amen.

      How about an actual hands-on review of the sub $500 scopes?

      How about an actual hands-on review of the AR tools?

      How about an actual hands-on review of the .380 Buffalo Bore bear loads?

      How about an actual hands-on review of the latest in AR aftermarket parts?

      How about an actual hands-on review of the best shooting gloves?

      How about an actual hands-on review of the plastic gun cases?

      and the beat goes on….

    • I know a guy who was raped in a bus stop. Maybe TTAG would be interested in that fucked up story. The poor bastard, it ended up on the local news where I lived at the time too.

  1. Completely off subject, but since I’m not going to be online tomorrow – Merry Christmas (and Happy Hanukkah) everyone!

  2. Look, I’m done. You’ve shot at me three times, so you’re leaving me no choice but to get the cops involved.” And then I made a near fatal mistake.

    I didn’t leave.

    I agree with your analysis.
    If you tell her you’re done, then you’re done and you leave.

    Or, better yet, you have a moving crew help clear all your stuff out while she’s not there, then tell her you’re done, and never go in there again.

  3. Where were the “Red Flag” laws when they were really needed. Oh yeah, exactly what are the M.O.S. numbers on his DD 214? Just askin’, again.-30-

    • Eh. When you grow up that way, crazy feels normal.

      And, truth be told, some of our greatest warriors had the worst childhoods. And that’s no coincidence.

      • Yep. Every single guy I’ve talked to about being interviewed so far has a story like this. Every single one. It makes one reflect. At least it does me.

        • That might have something to do with partner selection. Or commonalities of partner selection in your potentials interviewees. Maybe they are attracted to ‘crazy’.

          “Avoid Crazy” is easy if you don’t let your smaller head take charge. (Alternately, dropping the white knight complex that might be driving the rest. I do now a few of those. They go out looking for crazy. It makes them feel good.)

        • Trauma does that, tends to break individuals and make them sociopaths or malcontents that end up in prisons. For a small minority, they possess the right stuff or just get lucky and use the hardship to fashion formidable character and will. Mostly prison though

  4. If only it were so simple as ‘leave.’ We come scarred from things that happened to us in our childhood, and our parents come to their marriage scarred from abuse / alcoholism and whatever. In this case, it’s the woman abusing the man. It happens, more than most want to acknowledge. Too many are the stories of women — most of which we never hear — who put up with abuse that, logically, makes no sense. But relationships between men and women — any relationships, really — are anything but logical. I’m glad he escaped alive. And he credited God. He sounds to me like a good guy. I wish him well.

    • Yep. And he is an enormously good guy. In all of the years I have known him – which is a good handful now – I have never known that guy to tell a lie, be late, or not follow through on a promise.

      Violence, and what to do about it, is a very complicated subject. Inside the home, and outside too.

  5. High IQ – Check
    Driven – Check
    Alcohol Problems- Check
    Issues– Check

    Attractive – Likely

    Highly Enthusiastic Participant – The only reason to be there

  6. I once knew the former chief of a PD in a small town in New Hampshire. He told me about a “shots fired” call he responded to. It turned out that a married couple were in their house taking shots at each other.

    Apparently, both of them knew how to use cover and so-forth, so neither of them were hit.

    The husband, the chief told me, was an FBI agent, and his wife was a CIA agent.

    They got divorced.

  7. This “operator” (lol) sounds like a complete jackass. TTAG must be running out of ideas, out of all the good/interesting people in the firearm world to interview you guys choose this idiot…

  8. In Esoteric Inanity’s opinion, Ed appears to be the rational one here, while it would seem that Mick has taken one too many hits to the head with frozen beverages. People can be rather tentative in their behavior, especially those that are mentally unstable. Granted that some men and women tend to be more so than others. In this one’s experience, the paramour of the nut is usually just as irrational as said nut for the aforementioned association. This makes for a union that is anything but copacetic.

    If Esoteric Inanity may articulate a brief account: In this one’s college days, he became rather acquainted with an array of intriguing characters. Such individuals included an Iowan illusionist and his entourage that were obsessed with occultism, a rather svelt and prepossessing Swedish gal that was the very embodiment of lagom är bäst (but a rather stern taskmaster and disciplinarian), a middle aged man that held quite a stringent view of the Constitution and Bill Of Rights (he also belonged to a militia and loved firearms), and a charming delinquent of a young man with heritage originating from an Irish father and a Canadian mother. For those that are fans of occultism, enthralling Scandinavian lasses or militias, Esoteric Inanity must apologize, for this anecdote involves the roguish Irish-Canadian.

    His name was something along the line of Bryce McHenry (according to him). He looked to be about in his mid twenties and stood around 5’ 6” tall with reddish-blonde hair and green eyes. He usually wore an attire consisting of aviator sunglasses, an old 1950s style overcoat, plaid pattern button up shirt, bugle boy jeans and leather bike boots. The man stuck out like a priest at a brothel, the only thing about him that was more evident than his appearance was his odd accent. He spoke with a mix of Irish and Canadian, and infrequently used what this one understood to be Gaelic curse words. The man never said “eh” but always shouted “aye” when in agreement.

    Upon this one’s initial meeting with Bryce, he appeared to be quite stoic and serious. After several subsequent encounters however, it was evident that he was in fact very outgoing and loved to party. Gradually, over the span of a year, Esoteric Inanity got to know Bryce quite well. He relayed to this one many of his personal troubles. Among those that his mother had recently passed away, his father was in prison in Ireland due to his connections to some group called Sinn Féin, he wasn’t in the states legally and issues with his girlfriend.

    As dire as Bryce’s problems were, none appeared to be more so than those brought on by Kim, his girlfriend. She was a gorgeous woman of Chinese descent, but dare one say psychotic with a terrible temper and a tendency towards pyromania. Kim once tried to ignite the gas tank on his car with kerosene soaked napkins and a lighter. She even took the batteries out of the smoke alarm in their apartment before setting fire to the kitchen at 2:00 am. The final transgression she made against Bryce was reporting him to the authorities for overstaying his visa. This was after he had her arrested for spraying him with gasoline and setting his overcoat ablaze at a gas station.

    The last words that Bryce McHenry ever said to Esoteric Inanity was that: “You can’t trust women, especially gorgeous Asian women. They’ll light a fire in your heart and pants until they light you up.” In this one’s opinion however, the grand architect of Bryce’s misery was in fact himself, Kim only facilitated his masochistic tendencies.

  9. Suggested subtitle #1: “interview with an idiot.”

    Suggested subtitle #2: “how not to live to a ripe old age.”

  10. I laughed to the end, that was funny. Thats close to home on that story, my x wife, hydrocodone, always whacked out of her head. Had a couple friends over drinking( reminiscing on the 70’s) and she pokes her gun in the side of my head. They freaked, lol. After nine years of that schzo I was hoping she’d pull the trigger. Snuck up behind me and clobbered me upside the head with a liter pop bottle once for cleaning up the house she tore up when she ran out of pills. It sure is quiet around here now, aahhh peace and quiet. By the way Elaine my guts hurt from laughing…..oh I’m catching the hidden message also. /S

    • It ended when she hit me in the face with a frying pan then bit herself ,tore her close and called the cops on me. I went to jail, DV charge, she didn’t show for court, thank goodness. Oh and why didn’t I call the cops on her( cop ask that too) I don’t call the cops.

    • Thanks Possum.

      I guess that I’m just as interested in – maybe even more interested in – the stories of the people who have invested their lives in weaponcraft. The aspects of gun culture that involve politics and equipment are already all very well covered here on TTAG.

      Despite being a Dem, I also think that political correctness can be a real scourge that ends up obscuring the reality of people’s lives and what they’ve been through. I’m interested in the unfiltered story with all of its gritty, complicated elements. Glad you enjoyed it.

      • “Despite being a Dem”

        You have inspired me to muse…

        “Being” and similar defining words with parties give me heartburn. So, why does that bug me?

        The idea that a particular political party should necessarily include doctrine on this issue or that, also seems odd. Maybe weakly: statistically Dems tend to have a position on, say, guns (lately, for the moment.) A bit stronger: conventionally, Dems have a position on guns (for now, as long as that’s the agreement.) The stronger form: definitionally, Dems have a particular position, say, guns (eternally, necessarily.)

        Parties don’t seem to me so much something you *are* as associations you *have*, vanguarding The Glorious Revolution aside. There’s a sort of Devil’s Bargain there with group-first: identity, meaning, goals, in return for your agency. The defining ideologues of group-first groups offer exactly that. There’s a continuity in this from pick-up team, through co-op, mission-organization, party, calling, religion, and cult.

        I’ve been slowly reading “The True Believer” for some time, so what owns what is top of mind for me. Related is Clay Shirky’s (in)famous “A Group is Its Own Worst Enemy.” Net: once a group becomes “a thing” as the cool kids say, being in becomes the goal, not whatever it was for, that attracted people to it in the first place.

        A club of mutual interest, if it becomes notable, becomes a cool-kids’ club, valuable for keeping the lessers out. Worse, as it becomes notable, and being in becomes a value in itself, it attracts people looking to grab that value by grabbing the group. And then keeping the wrong people out.

        Eric Hoffer — ‘Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.’

        • @Jim

          what a great post. Thanks.

          I actually think the ONLY thing that keeps any group honest are the people within it that dissent. One could always choose to just not participate in the system, but that doesn’t seem to be a real long term solution. If there aren’t people within any group that keep asking the tough questions, challenging the blind spots and weaknesses and pandering of that group – no matter what that group may be – it ultimately turns into exactly what you’ve described: a bunch of people who designate themselves as the “in crowd” who then create a hierarchical system of being “in or out” of the cool kids club. This is then used to distract everyone from the real issues.

          As humans we want to belong to communities, we are hard wired for it, and we also seem to be universally weak in terms of desiring just a bit more status than our fellow human. Ego, I guess. Being a human who belongs to a thing and yet continues to make everyone in that thing uncomfortable is important. Maybe the most important thing there is in terms of checks and balances.

          I save quotes and sections from things I read that I want to keep with me. Over the last week it’s been something written by Chris Pandolfo of the Conservative Review after 9/11:

          “…Regardless of who wins the presidency, who controls the Senate or the House or the judiciary — whatever political party or individual is put in control of the government — it is imperative, it is essential, it is good, and it is right that we as Americans never cease to fight for and defend freedom and justice for all.

          There is a specter of fear, of distrust and outrage, that is dividing us today. Discourse over ideas has devolved into bickering, name-calling, trolling, and contests of insult and ego. Each side of every argument seems less interested in showing how their ideas defend freedom and justice and more invested in forcing those who disagree into submission.

          I am guilty of this as much as anyone. And when I engage in that behavior, I am wrong.

          What is good and decent in America is under assault today from forces that hate us and seek to destroy us every bit as much as the people who hijacked those planes did. We do a disservice to the people who died on September 11, 2001, whether as victims or as heroes, and to our living countrymen and ourselves when we forget that defending the freedom of every American and ensuring that justice prevails for every American — even those who disagree with us — make this country good and decent.

          The purpose of American conservatism is to conserve freedom and justice for the good and happiness of all of us. Its purpose is to defend liberty from hatred and evil that seek to destroy. That is what we must remember on September 11, and on every day. We must never forget that.”

        • Holy shit,,, the story about my x n all was eluding to how a person can use a Domestic Violence charges as a way to get someone in trouble. Just like the direction of elaine lD”s story went with the not mentioned erpo”s. The domestic violence law was a good law at first, then it was a gun grab straight up, now it’s used as some woman’s and men’s ,’stick’. Of all the infringement we complain about the misdemeanor lose your guns for life is bullshit. And as DV law started out good and ended up a tool, so too will this protective order thing. Some of us old timers see where this erpo could be heading, that’s a reason some balk at the feed bunk……obtw I did catch one channel cat and hooked a pole bender, Im rusty it got away.

  11. Reading this story, I knew she was a nut when he mentioned she had a Ph.D. This means she had a sheltered childhood and probably never actually had any life experience do anything but going to school. I have never met anyone who has a DR. in front of their name or Ph.D. behind it that wasn’t a total douchebag. ( I worked in the medical community for a few years). You sir are an Idiot for staying in a relationship with such a person. A couple years in prison would have been the best treatment for her. Just can’t fix stupid.

    • He didn’t say she had a PhD, he said she had a Master’s and at some time had done PhD work, meaning she was working on her PhD.
      She had a master’s degree with Ph.D. work in artificial intelligence.

  12. This reminds me of the year I went to the Christmas party at my estranged wife’s employer. I didn’t really fly in expecting to reconcile with her, but that Argyle dude (my driver from the airport) was a smooth motherfucker farming some free range truth.

    I made my way up to an empty office and as I was experimenting with the unsolicited advice of a fellow air traveler I heard a series of stacatto reports emerge from the background din of office co worker chit chat. Shit, why did I take off my shoes on that new age hippy’s advice? Well, it looked like Christmas at the Nakatomi tower wasn’t gonna be such a silent night after all.

  13. Wow. Not interested in hearing anything else this guy has to say.

    The title should be…”When your wife shoots at you, call po-po and leave…..permanently”.

  14. Thanks for the story TTAG. I have also been married to a crazy woman. I suggested she get professional mental help after years of our arguments and fights.

    Only after our divorce she finally did seek help. Today she is a better person. Many times you only learn about a loved one’s troubled past after years of being with them.

    My mental health is also better. Not being with her, has been a very, very good thing.

    It was her parents divorce, aparently a very messy one with her parents using her as a weapon against each other. She was 16 years old back then.

    Any Liberal, or anyone else, who says divorce doesn’t hurt the kids. Is just a liar.

    • @Chris

      You are correct. More than 50 years of research on divorce has shown that it’s always negative for kids. At least initially. This is why people stay. Why they try all kinds of crazy things to make it work even though it’s obvious that it can’t work. You can’t blame them for trying. They’re trying to do their duty and keep their families together.

      • I am the product of divorced family. Parents divorced when I was 5.

        Made me happy as the stress level went down about 10 notches.

        I realized later what I had missed not having a father at home. But mine was an ass.

        He grew up hard and loved through the depression, spent 3.5 years in England in the Air Corps. All reasons for him being an ass but no excuse for it.

        I have been married about 35 years. Divorce does sneak up and infect you and I have only seen a handful where only one party was at fault in the divorce. ( usually mental issues).

        What I mainly see is that people quit working at having a good marriage. It takes a lot of work and deciding that the spouse matters as much as you. When kids are the only reason to keep a marriage together, I don’t want to be around that family in any social setting.

        However, mental illness is the big curve ball if you didn’t know they had issues from the start ( I have seen several that did know and married them anyway). It is one thing to defer to the mentally ill spouse to try to help them and keep the family.

        It is quite another if there are dangerous to themselves or others. Hiding that does not help anyone in the long run and usually leads to someone being injured or killed.

        Marriage is the hardest job you will ever have with the biggest rewards. It is not something you “give a try”. A 50/50 relationship always fail. It has to be 100% from for it to have a chance.

        • All that work maintaining a relationship and the acute stress from dealing with another person’s emotional bullshit just so you don’t have to sleep alone and have a f**k buddy…my god is it really worth it ?
          No woman, in fact no human being is important enough to me to endure even a fraction of the abuse that you normal guys put yourselves through just to get your “needs” met.

        • @Specialist

          So much in what you had to say.

          Yeah. If kids are going to be abused or in danger…one has to leave. At that point it’s a choice to preserve them and yourself. It’s a choice, at that point, between “bad” and “less bad.” Not “bad” and “good.” Path of least harm – but there’s still harm either way.

          What you say about marriage is so true. I know a lot of happily married people and they would agree with you that signing up for the work of it is the key. The other thing, though, is that whether by luck or wisdom, they also selected partners who were stable, kind, committed, non-addicted, non-violent, mentally ill people.

          When I’m working with young people who want to get married, I spend a lot of time helping them understand that this is a job that they must take seriously and be willing to put the time and devotion into; it’s not something to do on a whim. I also work with them on partner selection, especially if they come from broken, abusive, or emotionally cold families. If they haven’t seen a good role model for partnership, they are very likely to choose someone who is a lot like one of their parents and “try to make it work,” with similar results. Good partner selection is a key component. It takes time to learn those skills.

          And sometimes you have to decide not to go there because the other person has mental health issues. It’s a very hard decision to make. I’ve had to do it myself three times in the last three years. Dating a guy I really like and then it turns out he has something serious going on and I have to make a decision.

          It’s a very difficult call to make, to not continue with someone who is struggling who you know wants to do or be better. You – or at least I – want to help and support and be there. But since I work in mental health what I know is that some things are out of my scope, that even with all my training and skills, there are things that are so difficult that they will exhaust and tank the relationship no matter how much the love and goodwill from my side. If someone isn’t capable of acting in a healthy and non self-sabotaging manner, it’s inevitable that the consequences of their choices are going to deeply affect your life as a partner. It might not happen right away but it will happen down the road unless they take responsibility for their lives to the maximum degree they are able to do so.

          Marriage or long term partnership are a marathon and not a sprint. One needs long term skills and long term strength.

    • This reads a lot like Robert Farago’s love life. I seem to recall that he described several relationships and 3 ex wives that were all exceptionally attractive and nuttier than squirrel poop.

  15. WTF, TTAG

    I swore off this site after the last Elaine D post. I’ll admit I’ve been perusing in the background, reading the occasional actual firearms-related review or helpful article. I figured the first horrendous article from this nut case, and the honest feedback in the comments, would have clarified that TTAG viewership doesn’t want this nonsense. Guess not…

    Welp, Merry Christmas and see you fine folks over at gun sites that maintain a standard somewhere above this garbage.

  16. I thought it was patently clear from the prior interview with an operator that we all need to drink prior to completing the mission. Oh, my bad, meant reading.

    Write when drunk, edit while sober. or not.

  17. Fuck this place, fuck these things. No longer in the daily list of blogs to read, enough my time has been wasted. Have fun competing with TFB.

  18. Elaine is a problem here. Look through this article on a deeper level. She is painting a picture. It is a ugly picture. If there ever was a anti gun piece this is it. I don’t for a minute believe this operator exists anywhere other than her imagination. She hates men and is taking that out here on the pages of ttag. I can not for a minute understand why this would even be allowed to be printed here. It’s ok guys just give a crappy gun to your crazy wife and let her blaze away, you will make it through unscathed. This is a dangerous piece. Sad.

    • ED is, she says, a mental health professional.
      MC is a made up composite of several people. This should be obvious.
      The reason she wrote this is as an object lesson. MC is an idiot. Anyone who ‘operates’ at less than optimum, and remains married to someone who not only takes pot shots at him, but actually provides her with the means to do so more than once, is objectively an idiot.
      The lesson ED wants us to take away is that we usually provide our own problems. What we need to do is recognize that, and when the same problem occurs more than once, we are usually doing something wrong.

      • @Big Bill

        Close, but I actually didn’t intend an object lesson. When you are asking someone to tell their story, as I am with these guys, I think it’s very important and a sign of respect to allow them to tell it in their own way, including their thoughts and reflections, without interfering or editing any of it to try to make it more “politically correct.” It is my job to write down their story, not to alter it.

        What’s interesting to me is that pretty much every single one of the operator guys I have talked to so far in the interest of potentially being interviewed has a story like this – a story of being married to a violent woman. It’s made me think a lot about how men handle abuse very differently than women do, starting with sometimes not even recognizing that they’re being abused in the first place. It makes me think about how people whose jobs involve a lot of violence, or grew up with a lot of violence, are desensitized to it and may not even realize how much danger they are actually in.

        I should have thought to ask him if his mom ever shot at his dad. I would not be surprised if that answer was yes. His family was violent and they all had guns. I suspect that to him this was normal.

        A lot of men that have been abused are ashamed of it and won’t tell the story. But that keeps other guys from realizing they need to get out, too. I’m glad he shared what he did with me.

        • How interesting. Perhaps being a mental health professional skews the type of folks with whom you come in contact. Every former operator I know – including Tier 1 and SWAT dudes, have absolutely normal family lives. Mine is as well, though I’m not an operator, but simply a mall ninja.

          Are these patients you’re interviewing, or acquaintances of a different sort?

        • @Defens

          No. I would not interview a client. These are all guys I’ve met through shooting guns. Once you get past the stage of being the new girl who can barely handle a pistol shooting at sparkly pink targets and advance your firearms training into a more serious level, especially if you study carbine, that’s when you tend to meet more folks like the guys I have, because at that point they are the only people there are to practice with. There just aren’t a lot of women in the shooting community past the beginner level.

          There are certainly guys in the community who I’ve met who are happily partnered or married and have been for a long time, for sure. I would like to talk to them too but I am respectful of their marriages and the fact that perhaps their wife would not like my approaching them, so I haven’t gone there at this time.

        • Elaine, I see where you’re coming from, but I’m standing outside of your own personal experience (rather obviously).
          These are people you meet during your training, which, as I recall, is mostly tactical. I would suggest you’re getting training from the proto-typical tactical training dude: short beard, black clothing, never sit with his back to the door, paranoid, has many stories to tell (many of them he can’t get into too detail about because secret).
          I’ve met them, and I laugh at most of them. Some are genuine (maybe a lot of them), but it’s really hard to tell the glass from the gems, because they are really good at spinning the yarn.
          I’ve watched as a lot of these guys actually try to train people how to clear their homes, when the people who actually do this for a living would never (NEVER) attempt this on their own, because they know just how dangerous this is.
          Sorry, but having just a little actual training in this, I know how much bull you’re being fed.

  19. Many years back my dad gave me some great advice – “Never sleep with anybody who is crazier than you are.” End of story.

    • the fourth time wifey shot at me was a mixed blessing; sure, i had to replace the candelabras, take the router to the baby grand again and patch the peacock bass tank with flex seal, but at least i don’t have to listen to her anymore.

  20. I grew up in a home where my parents had epic fights- but no one, not ever, thought to pick up a gun to threaten a family member. If true, the guy quoted in this article is an idiot. The article is really about abuse, not “gun issues” as such.

    Many women feel that only men are capable of abuse. Many religious organizations only deal with abuse by men. My ex threatened me with a gun once after a lengthy argument. I disarmed her immediately while our son called the police who gave her a choice of jail or an extended stay in a psych ward. All the guns were immediately removed from the house and i filed for divorce when it became apparent that she couldn’t accept responsibility for that flawed decision. I didn’t sleep well until we were separated.

    It is very hard for most men, especially capable and chivalrous men, to recognize abuse by women and deal with it seriously. If you suspect that you are in an abusive relationship- get help. If you’ve been threatened with physical violence you need to leave. You won’t lose any rights by leaving if you feel endangered by a spouse. Best thing is to document everything. Having facts on your side really helps in a divorce or even forcing someone to get help.

    A really poor choice of an article at Christmas. Not to include info on what to do in a situation like this is irresponsible on a forum like this. Most people of the gun I know (and reflected in regular commenters) are obsessed with safety and hope never to have to use their guns in violence. Using a gun against a loved one is is a rare event (despite media coverage) and has everything to do with mental health issues rather than the weapon employed.

    Elaine is your goal to promote irresponsible gun use? I’m shocked this was published without comment or qualification as an extremely flawed and dangerous reaction to a serious domestic violence event.

    • I stayed with her because I thought I could fix broke, always the fixer. Our relationship just got worse, went from “I hate you, to I hope you die. She had a good heart, but a drug addiction and hate for the world and herself wasn’t working. She was kidnapped and raped when she was young, I felt I could fix that.

    • Not at all.

      MC is a real person. I have known him a long time. He is (these days) a very thoughtful and wise man. It wasn’t so much the case when he was younger.

      I asked him to tell the story, HIS way, because it contains so many of the elements that I see being talked about in the media these days: Mental illness. Violent people. Domestic violence. The question of whether to remove guns. When to get law enforcement involved. His story touches all of these elements, even though it was many years ago.

      I was also interested in his story because I have seen over and over again how hard it is for men, especially “tough guy” types, to acknowledge or sometimes even recognize when they are being abused, though it’s obvious to everyone around them that that’s what is happening. But MC is completely accurate in saying that guys think they can fix it. They also tend to feel sorry for her because she has mental health issues and therefore will tolerate much more than they should because they feel it’s their duty to try to get her well.

      I’ve seen it many times, both in clients and friends. Women are not the only targets of domestic violence. I think that’s a really important point.

    • Also, though this may sound strange, it’s actually appropriate that this was run at Christmas. The holidays are the time when many relationships end because a spouse realizes that they cannot go through one more season of their partner drinking, yelling, throwing things, threatening them, or what have you.

      The holiday season is the busiest time of year for both mental health professionals and divorce attorneys. Probably because it’s a time of year when families are supposed to be together and be happy. It’s a time of year that is very lonely and difficult for people who are in bad and toxic relationships because everyone around them has loving people to be with. Those people need to know that it’s OK to leave, and it’s OK to leave when you’re ready to leave, even if it’s Christmas.

  21. Okay so I get how we are supposed to admire this guy for being one of those pointy ends of the spear people. Who do in fact deserve our appreciation, lots of it. But these stories being printed in TTAG make this “Male Concubine” fellow out to be an idiot. Or Elaine D to be making up soap opera fiction.

  22. Cool story, bro.

    What’s not cool, is that I’ve witnessed the dynamic described often in enough relationships. I can’t file this under “fantastical anecdotes”, or even “cautionary tales”.

  23. Marriage…when dating goes too far. Or as my ex-wife put it so prophetically, “A woman doesn’t have to be a bigamist to have one husband too many.” She took off with my best friend…sometimes I still miss him. -30-

  24. @Elaine

    It is disappointing that despite overwhelming comments from the veteran community on the last post, you insisted with going forward with this piece. I half hoped the first piece was an attempt at satire that just fell flat.

    You need to vet your subject, and you need to consult people like JWT to make sure the person you are interviewing even fits the loose definition of an “operator”. Military Police and civilian law enforcement simply do not qualify. An MP is about 3-4 levels below what could even be considered an “operator” and a civilian consultant to a federal law enforcement agency wouldn’t even come close. This is also assuming his stories and background are real, which, based on my reading, I doubt.

    We don’t have an issue with the shenanigans, and we would all love to laugh and enjoy some funny “I was drunk on the FOB and made a landslide by shooting a MK19 at a mountain” (There is an SF guy somewhere who owns that story). The problem is that we know “MC” is a farce, we know his stories are false, and your insistence on calling him an operator is an insult to the VERY small population of men who have earned that distinction.

    If you want funny military /LE related stories, open up and set up a way for readers to get in contact you.I promise you, the truth is funnier than the fiction coming from MC.There is no shortage (well there may be now) of LE/MIL reading this blog. The content of this article was not as bad as the last, but I think it would be best to hit the reset switch, find some new subjects for your series, and see where that takes you.

    • @cg

      Again, allow me to remind you that all I have done here is chosen to interview a certain small subset of people that I know through shooting. These men are who they say they are and I have spent quite a bit of time around them. Anonymity is part of what they have all requested in order to tell me their stories, so as part of that agreement, I am not posting the wealth of detailed information that would reveal who they are to those who might know them from other contexts.

      I would also remind you that I do not invent the stories. I do not know enough about shooting, guns, or military service to invent such tales. I simply write down what they tell me and submit it to DZ, who makes the choice about publishing it or not. It’s a simple, straightforward process. Above all, I am going to honor the agreements for anonymity that I have made. I am not going to violate that. That is the way that it is.

      You always have the choice not to read what I write. I am not paid for this work and no compensation has gone or is going to the men who have chosen to share their stories with me. No one has anything to gain by lying here. There’s no money changing hands and in case you haven’t noticed, most of what I write for TTAG tends to be received negatively anyway, so it’s not like it’s bringing me some kind of fame or attention or monetary reward.

      I write about these men because I know them personally; because I have seen up close and personal, and benefited from, their immense experience both in terms of life and also firearms. If you don’t like the pieces you can simply click through to the next one. There’s nothing to stop you from doing that. Thanks.

    • Also, if you are concerned about vetting, it is worth noting that I have known everyone I am thinking of interviewing for quite some time. I would have no way at all of vetting anyone who contacted me through an open “call” for interviews. I am still absolutley open to doing that, and offered it within the context of the last piece on MC, but so far no one has taken me up on that.

      Anyone interested can certainly contact DZ and have him forward the email. I have already discarded a couple of false leads to people who had a certain reputation or story around them but, on conversation, it turns out that these were only stories and tales, not time served or work actually done. As far as the term operator, it is being used generally here because there is no other term that I know of that covers someone who has done a wide variety of work across military, law enforcement, contract jobs and other kinds of work. It would not work to call it “Interview with a LEO” because that doesn’t cover it. It would not work to call it “Interview with former NCIS” because that would not cover it. Those things are not broad enough.

      If there is a better term please share it, but “operator” is how I have heard active duty LEO and military refer to their colleagues who have done this kind of work across different contexts and cannot be categorized into just one area. MC just left for Kandahar for a job that was offered to him partially based on his previous operator experience, and that term was used in the hiring process. Thanks.

      • Elaine, thumbs up to you for posting an article that obviously struck a chord with a lot of us here. Thanks for taking time to respond to everyone.

        I find it a puzzle why so many are upset with the article. It’s an article, it’s a story, it’s something to read or not. Something we find interesting or not. None of us that I know of are paying any money to access this site. While I know our input is read and appreciated, it’s not our sandbox, so to speak. Our choice is to read, respond if we want, and allow others to do likewise — without getting into attacks on others’ intentions, intelligence, abilities, or judgment. The attacks happen; I’m just not sure that they do anything to bring people together more than drive them apart.

        I’ve learned a tremendous amount in the relatively short time I’ve been on this site. I’m grateful for all the time that you put in, that the staff at TTAG puts in, for knowledge and for the exchange of thoughts on things. I’m grateful for the extensive knowledge and hard-won wisdom that many share in comments here, far beyond what I know, about guns, law, history, and from articles like yours here.

        So call me grateful — for all of it. Keep writing and sharing. It’s very good stuff.

        • Thanks, Michael. That means a lot coming from you, as I know you’ve strongly disagreed at times with positions I’ve taken or things I’ve written. You are modeling what I want for all of us: a diverse and engaged, questioning viewpoint.

          I too am puzzled by the response to these interviews, especially as the men I have chosen to interview are undeniably in the top 5% of firearms people I have ever met. They know more about guns, and shooting, and real life deployment of weapons, than most of us ever will. I’ve shot with them, visited their homes, listened to their stories, met their friends and partners; these are connections that have taken a lot of time to build and unfold, as these guys are to a man very private people who don’t naturally talk a lot about their experiences. To me the stories are interesting because the men themselves are interesting. I’ve seen them shoot and teach and do a lot to develop new shooters most of all myself. I’m grateful to have them in my life and community.

        • “I […] am puzzled by the response to these interviews, especially as the men I have chosen to interview are undeniably in the top 5% of firearms people I have ever met.”

          You’re joking now, right?

  25. Oh, I get it now Male Dumbass… err concubine is Elaine’s D’s ex.

    Everything makes sense now, well besides why TTAG would post this drivel, it should be sent out printed on toilet paper.

  26. I can see Male Concubine is part of the high speed low drag tactical operator set. I can see that everyone involved in this article and the last was part of the gifted and talented group. Had too many relatives and friends who were actually combat veterans to believe this crap.
    On a more positive note; why not do some reviews on some real high speed operator weapons such as a .22 LR rifle or a highly tactical Opinel knife.

  27. This pile of manure finally did it!

    I have been trying to control my addiction on TTAG for years. I read everything posted, every day, except pocket dumps, usually couple days behind to get as many comments as possible.
    Unending technical problems and slowly declining quality of posts did not repel me. But this leftist anti-gun headshrink enemy within managed to push me off this site.
    Sorry, Dan, this is not the blog we grew to love anymore.
    How much extra time will I now have! Thank you, Elaine D.
    See you guys elsewhere.
    Yeah, I will make sure the door doesn’t hit me in the ass.

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