There are a few situations where you think, yeah, OK, SWAT. Terrorist incidents, sure. Bank robberies with hostage-taking standoffs, maybe. But the days when a bunch of cops with guns and few snipers could take care of business (in the great Dog Day Afternoon tradition) are long gone. Nowadays it’s full military regalia, tactics and techniques and yay! We get to use our mil-spec freebies! wptv.com provides pics of the Palm Beach po-po responding to a stick-up at the TD Bank at Northlake Boulevard and US-1 in North Palm Beach. [Check out some more shots after the jump.] “SWAT members began entering the building at noon. They left about an hour later. The suspect apparently got away with an undisclosed amount of money before the SWAT team got inside.” Unless he was also wearing a ghillie suit, waiting for the SWAT team to RTB . . . [h/t Shane]
Home Police Procedure Incendiary Image(s) of the Day: Ghillie-gan’s Island
The suspect then casually strolled away before officers were able to put on all of their fancy toys.
So I guess the vegetation around banks in Palm Beach is pretty beastly, eh?
“You were an idiot to take the Texans over the Patriots. Now put this on, Loser.”
1st pic; Zombies with guns.
The Hulk has a rifle! Run!
Looks like “Swamp Thing” to me. Good thing they all have sooper neato tacticull gear, that makes them betterer.
I like the way that tree suit makes him disappear into the outline of that Dodge Charger.
I can hear it now: “I got busted by the creature from the Black Lagoon!” What idiot thinks that a ghillie suit will provide good camouflage in an urban environment? Hel, the same goes for olive drab camo as well. Totally ridiculous. Cops should wear their usual uniform stuff, whatever color that may be, and any kind of chest protector they want, but guys, leave the pseudo warrior ninja stuff back at the station house. You are not impressing Anyone, and you are not adding to your personal protection.
And as a response to the comment a day or two ago about the expense of police uniforms and how much more comfortable and practical the military style is, FINE, have the police uniforms made in the style and materials of the military uniforms in the same colors and with the same patches as your standard police uniform. This whole military camouflage and web gear and tactical vests thing is ridiculous and only reinforces the Standing Army argument.
As stated above, where do they keep this stuff. There certainly aren’t enough phone booths around any more for them all to change in. And I’m pretty sure they aren’t on regular patrol duties wearing the full Falujah gear.
they are wearing surplus US ISAF uniforms.
Surplus – are you sure??
The U.S. military is still transitioning towards Multi-Cam, why would they be giving it away at this stage?
Especially after the army’s decision to officially adopt Multi-Cam this year.
The above images would only make sense from a logistical POV if they were all wearing ACU or similar retired patterns.
…and seriously – Balaclava’s !!?? WTF!
The derp is strong.
their actually moving away from it with the draw down becuase its “just for GWOT” their supposed to come up with a new Universal camo pattern to replace ACU so their moving to that. in other words POG’s who resemble bradley manning cant where it in their comfy office chair or in their SHWANK dorm barracks so the army doesent need it anymore.
That’s what I was wondering. What the hell do they think they’re blending with?
Got the stuff! Gotta use it or it’ll go stale! Doctor’s orders!
SWAMP THING! Long time no see.
I’d like to see Adrienne Barbeau in a ghillie suit – or out of one.
I dunno – isn’t she abut 100?
She’s 68, Rich. And not half bad, either.
…and how much extra time did they spend breaking out and crawling into those costumes; time better spent deploying.
Give them a hammer and they will look for a nail
You all seen the Navy camoflauge uniforms? Grey on blue? Why, oh why!? Who are they trying to hide from on the freaking ship- the XO? The Captain? Their chief or LPO? Whether shore based or ship based they make no damn sense. Some idiot somewhere got the idea you’re not military unless you’re draped in camoflauge.
Navy camo is to cover up the dirt and wear and tear on the uniform, supposedly to save the sailors from excess uniform costs. From Wikipedia “The overall blue color reflects the Navy’s heritage and connection to seaborne operations. The pixelated pattern is also used to hide wear and stains, something unavoidable with the utilities and working khakis used previously. The colors were also chosen to match the most commonly used paint colors aboard ship, extending the lifetime of the uniform on long deployments where uniforms often come into contact with freshly painted surfaces. As of 2012, the uniform is authorized for wear outside of military installations.”
It’s authorized for routine stops, it is NOT a liberty uniform.
You’ve confirmed something I’ve long suspected: it’s to hide the coffee stains-at least until the Navy coffee eats through the fabric.
Not yet, Tom. Not yet.
Navy camo works best when you’ve gone overboard and actually want to be seen.
Its actually great for hiding in the blue tile areas of officers decks.
The Wikipedia article tries to put a nice gloss on the navy cammo. The real reason for it is this: Too many civilians found out that in the early years navy folks do a whole lot of rust removal. On most ships it is the single biggest consumer of man-hours, together with “cleaning.” Nobody’s going to sign up for that unless there’s a Nam-like draft to avoid. So they let them wear cammo as a matter of esprit de corp. “Am I in the military or on some building rehab crew two thousand miles from any chicks?” “Dude, you’re wearing cammo!”
You’d think they’d have picked something red, with all this rust removal.
I got an oil stain on mine that says that statement is BS. It’s actually a pattern that makes sailors less attractive to marine wives
The exact tactic used in The Mentalist a few weeks ago en one of the Red John suspects needed to escape. He precipitated a multi-agency SWAT call-out and then after they entered the building he walked out the front door wearing a full SWAT outfit including the face mask.
And what’s with the ghillie suit in an urban environment. That’s just silly.
Compensates for a tiny twig and berries…
And if it was a LadySWATer, would someone say, “Hey LOOK, burlwood!”
Hah. There was one level in Hitman: Absolution that I did that in all the time.
Way to blend!
It’s these pictures that make me sick. I’m an overweight officer with less training than an average airsofter but dammit I need me my Multicam and Blackhawk! Shell carrier for my Benelli M4…also IF YOU’RE STANDING BEHIND A CAR THE SUIT DOESN’T WORK
I wonder if the guy shooting over the roof of the car realizes that he has exactly 2 pieces of glass protecting his upper torso?
Is there a cop in that picture? All I see is a white car.
Yeah, but they’re blacked out, so, since all perps are stupid animals, the perp won’t know his torso is back there.
I like how the guy with the short barreled shotgun keeps it pointed down range while he’s pointing thing’s out to the other guy, as if at any moment, the robbers might come out of the bank door–100 yards away– and he doesn’t want to miss the opportunity to spray ineffective and ill-aimed buckshot in the general direction.
They carry slugs (at least the cops I talk to do). Still a long shot, to be sure, but it’s not “spraying buckshot” either.
It’s supposed to appeal to the intrinsic compassion in all people, including the bad guy. “Hey, that bush fell over on that police truck, it’s going to scratch the paint. I should go tell them even if they are going to arrest me!”
Wow, that ghillie suit and jungle camo really makes them there SWAT guys hard to spot in contrast to white and silver vehicles!
Seriously, as mentioned above the wasted time in suiting up is laughable. That is unless these guys come to work dressed like that…
Those numb nuts are SO in love with that stuff that they likely eat, shower, and sleep in it, as an True Operator must do…
that was good
Ghillie suit aside, I suspect the purpose of police in full tactical gear is that they WANT people to see them and be intimidated by the militarism. A favorite tactic of bullies is to appear indomitable and ferocious. They WANT people to see them and be afraid.
The problem is, to “People of the Gun” these morons look like, well, morons. They’re little boys playing dress-up.
If I ever see my local PD or SD playing dress-up like this, I’ll run for political office and make it my agenda to reduce the entire department to one person to hold a title.
The problem is with all those children pointing at them and laughing. Especially the girls.
Wait where are the cops? All I see are soldiers. Yes, soldiers are what they think they are
Well they look like idiots. The camo face mask is added touch for Maximum Tacticool. They want to play soldier but don’t have the guts to sign up or are afraid someone might shoot back. Calling them soldiers is an insult to the real soldiers. They are just wasting our tax money with their Rambo fantasy
The face mask is to preserve his anonymity. So folks don’t single him out at normal job – as a Meter Maid – to mock him.
Actually sorta a good tactic, if the perp was still inside and saw Ghillie-man. He would have to surrender, I mean who wants to be the person who says the were “shot by Swampthing?”
It could actually be a perverse incentive — to be the first guy the state pen who can say he shot the Swamp Thing.
Oceans 11 much?
Holy crap! Chewbacca’s a cop! When the hell did that happen?
When I used to play airsoft we called countersniper games “Wookie Hunts”. 🙂
I’ve always thought the comparison was funny.
Because jungle camo and Ghillie suits are excellent camouflage in an urban environment.
I’d think the proper “disguise” for North Palm would be more like a Carmen Miranda fruit salad hat..
Wait, all I see in the picture is a car and a bush. What does that have to do with cops?
What? Is it time for the next picture caption contest?
The ghillie suit is ridiculous on its face, agreed. But what’s more ridiculous is this; in a potentially time-critical situation, these guys took the time to put all of this crap on . . .
Newsflash, you’re cops. The bankrobber knows you’re there. You aren’t stalking him through thick underbrush or on combat patrol in Afghanistan. Is it so much to ask to just respond to the bloody call with gear that you need? More to the point, if you did in fact need to do a tactical entry, how exactly are you planning on doing that effectively with all of that crap plastered all over you? It’s just ludicrous.
You don’t get it. The outfits give them super powers. Surely you can’t expect them to leave their super powers behind?
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
How the Free Market creates Chicken Dinner: http://rich_grise.tripod.com/cgi-bin/stew1.pl
I wonder if the guy in the ghillie suit stopped and thought “man, I must look ridiculous in this thing. I’m taking cover behind a silver car, there is no dense vegetation in sight, and all my buddies have sweet-ass pasgt helmets and plate carriers instead. From now on I’m checking google street-view before I put this thing on to make sure there is nearby swampland to hide in.”
Nah, he found it in the top of Mom’s closet. He just has to hurry to get it home and re-wrapped so she won’t notice he got into his Christmas presents early.
Don’t they know that Swamp Thing doesn’t need a gun to take down bad guys?
This is my biggest pet peeve about Militarized Police…they DO NOT NEED CAMO!
And now ghillie suits!?! What a huge Douche!!!
There are actually three cops in the first photo. One is wearing a GI Joe costume, the second is dressed up like Jungle Jim and the third is disguised as a four door hybrid.
It was a stroke of genius enlisting Decepticop Transformers onto the force.
I thought that was Agent 13.
I wonder how they decide who gets to wear which outfit, or do they take turns?
“Dude, I get the boonie hat. I had to wear the lame helmet last time.”
“Yeah but before that you got to wear the ghillie suit two times in a row.”
Meanwhile, the robber walks around the corner and climbs into a cab.
Meanwhile, the robber walks around the corner and climbs into a cab.
Actually, he only thought it was a cab!
OK so as an OFWG I have all this totally useless information floating in my head….Let me tell you this quick story…
…Back in the 1970’s there was this whole “air piracy” thingie going on…folks looking for money (DB Cooper), fledgling political fanatics (Arafat crowd) etc. So some guy hijacks a plane. The plane somehow is at JFK airport. The FBI get called to help out since air piracy is a federal crime by that time. The NY FBI office calls up their “sniper” at the time. Probably an agent with some mil experience. Its a Sunday. He is home with the family. So he jumps in the car and off he goes. He shows up at the airport. Badda Bing Badda Boom…he shoots the bad guy.
Well it turns out that non other than J Edgar gets on his case because he wasn’t dressed properly. Like an FBI guy should be. He gets a ton of crap from Washington….
I rummaged around the Interweb and actually found the picture that was all over the NYC newspapers of the time….check out his attire and the gun he is using…..man have times changed…the picture is on ebay of all places…
Someone should show that picture of Waldo-the-Sniper to the Gillie man and the forest rangers.
Can you name one other money hijacking besides “D.B. Cooper”?
As for the dress thing (no, not the dress that Jedgar wore for Clyde!) a guy named Joseph Schott wrote a book on Hoover’s FBI called NO LEFT TURNS. The title came from the fact that Hoover wanted the FBI Building that would be named in his honor have no hallways that turned left!
He told a story about a class of new recruits. One day they walked past Hoover, and Hoover turned to his assistants and said, “one of them is a pinhead; get rid of him!”
They were understandably puzzled as to which one Hoover was referring to. In those days, all agents had to wear business hats, so they went and checked the new agents’ hats when they were in a class; the hats were all hung together.
They found that none of the hats was especially smaller than the others, so they just picked an agent at random and fired him. Hoover never complained, so possibly they fired the “right” one. Or not.
Actually there were quite a few hijacking for money at the time. Check out the “copycat” section in the Wiki entry on Cooper…
Found a great link to a blog from a writer who seems to have a book out on sky jackers….check out the Google doc links he has included to contemporary news stories. Looks like FBI agent Lovin went on to many other exploits in his career also…
I’m just going to ignore the ludicrousness (ludicrosity? ludicrociousness?) of the ghillie suit, because others have covered that well.
As a resident of Florida, let me tell you what I keyed on. The FWC on the front fender of the truck in the second photo stands for Fish & Wildlife Conservation. I’m trying to figure out what an FWC officer is doing responding to a bank robbery in the middle of suburban West Palm Beach.
A lot of officers jump at the chance to get in on some action and FWC has statewide jurisdiction and sworn law enforcement officers. They can enforce all laws and are not limited to just enforcing wildlife and hunting laws.
I imagine (but am not entirely sure) that as long as their supervisors approve it, they’re allowed to go out there and do their thing.
My guess is the douche in the ghillie suit…he was probably on a nearby “fishing and wildlife ambush” and got the call about the bank robbery and jumped all over it.
Probably for the same reason you see 5 cop cars at a routine traffic stop….they have nothing better to do.
I live around the corner from said bank. A couple things: the FWC does quite a bit in the area due to the many marinas in the area. Further, there was a nasty murder in the alley on the other side of US1 a couple weeks ago, and the local police have been on edge for a bit (its generally an extremely safe area).
That said: These guys are ridiculous. They’ve got a state wide mandate and they treat wherever they’re posted, in this case my neighborhood, like their personal fiefdom. These photos and the generally reaction of the LEOs in the area are pretty much standard. They take walks down my street in full BDUs regularly.
Thanks for the reply. I’ve lived in Florida all my life, so I know they have statewide jurisdiction, I’m just used to seeing them usually confine their activities to things that involve, y’know, fish and wildlife. But thanks for the additional info.
Nice catch, that would better explain the swamp monster outfits.
Trying out his new ghillie suit.
He’s only wearing half the ghillie and the camo seems to be working because no seems to have noticed he has another rifle in a case slung across his shoulder and sticking out a foot or so above his head.
Better photo: http://media2.wptv.com//photo/2013/12/02/Screen_shot_2013-12-02_at_11.17.54_AM_20131202113046_640_480.PNG
I noticed, but I’d seen the story already, with more photos than are shown here. In the only photo here in which it appears, it’s mostly hidden by the guy in the tan camo and balaclava. I’m guessing that he and the sniper guy work as a team.
That’s his sniper rifle in a drag bag…he’s an even bigger douche than I thought!
What is he going to do, slowly stalk the bank robber down the road as he gets away, follow him to his home/apartment, watch him for a couple of days to gage his movements, and then pull the trigger on him several days later as he emerges from his front door?
Talk about a Mall Ninja!
Well, come on. He’s got to keep his rifle in something. Should he store it in another case just to make you happy, and only transfer it to the drag bag when the situation warrants? Or should he just store it in the drag bag because it’s friggin’ convenient? Personally, if I was in his shoes (ghillie suit), I’d just leave it in the drag bag, and not worry about what the peanut gallery thought.
The fact that he has on a ghillie suit and thinks he needs a drag bag so he can stalk bank robbers should speak for itself.
Well, the drag bag needs to be a ghillie drag bag.
How about he keeps it in the car and just use the scoped AR
1. Why does he need the SwampThing get-up? There’s no conceivable situation in domestic law enforcement for such a rig.
2. Likewise the drag-bag.
This is just more “operator wanna-be” behavior, but now we’re crossing into the zone of “Ludicrous Speed!”
I agree the ghillie suit is stupid. My point was why would you have two different cases for your rifle, when just one would do? This case works as a drag bag, a backpack, and a generic “rifle case,” so it’s multi-role. If the rifle was simply kept in a generic case, then it wouldn’t fulfill the other two roles, and you’d have to transfer it. Why go to the trouble?
Actually, I can think of exactly one: an ambush situation.
@ Dyspeptic Gunsmith
“They’ve gone to plaid!”
Maybe he was hunting Palm Beach Turkey outside of town when the SWAT call came in?
Palm Beach turkey = peacock
Yay for everyone assuming things from a picture you know little about! :p
Do you have a reasonable explanation for a guy standing in a ghillie suit sighting over a car in a suburban shopping center? I think this photo is pretty much what jumping to conclusions was invented for.
We need to invent an urban ghillie suit. I’m thinking bits of cardboard and old sofas. Maybe used condoms and soup cans. Someone could make some money selling that to SWAT teams.
Thanks. Another keyboard falls victim to a mouthful of beer.
Even if you don’t know what there field uniforms look like you should realize by looking at the vehicles that the officers in camouflage and in the ghillie suit are Fish and WILDLIFE officers that were probably out in the woods or on their way out when they got the call.
THEIR uniforms; this shit is NOT rocket surgery. I guess your teachers failed you. More likely, you failed yourself.
The reason the guy in the ghillie is sighting over the car is because he is covering the movement of other team members, this was before he had the opportunity to work into a position of concealment. As for why is he wearing a ghillie. It is in North Palm Beach and in case you haven’t noticed, probably because you’re to busy hiding behin your keyboard tyring to bash the guys that are out there doing the job, there is plush landscaping all around this area; great for a hidden position. If you think you can do better, I encourage you to apply with your local agency and have at it. Otherwise sit back and let the real men handle this work!
I don’t want to be a cop, let alone a SWAT nazi, lady. YOU volunteer, since you love ’em so much. But if you see cops near your house, lock your dog in a closet in the basement.
I was expecting a “mom’s basement” comment in there somewhere, but you’re smart enough to know we don’t have basements in Florida.
Your comment made me smile. That is all.
Oh little man Billy. You don’t want to be a cop because you are not MAN enough to be one. So sit back and know that there are brave men and women out there to save your pathetic ass when needed.
Matt, I am not a mother however I am a cop. Don’t see the need for all the haters with the negative comments. I am glad I could make you smile.
Defend the rise of the Police State with all your might; you will not find the fans you are seeking here, Marissa. Why don’t you go out and roust a couple of winos instead? That’s about your speed, darlin’.
OK, here’s what I’m assuming:
1. The taxpayers are paying for this behavior, ie, these clowns are not doing this off the clock.
2. The taxpayers are paying for all the toys they’re using to parade and strut around with, ie, those aren’t the officers’ private stash of boomsticks and gee-whiz toys.
3. The taxpayers are paying for the absurd number of responding officers to this call-out. In the private sector, we call this “featherbedding.” Go ahead and google that.
4. The taxpayers are picking up a big chunk of the bennies and pensions for these clowns.
5. Add up (1) through (4) and I’d say that the taxpayers are being ripped off.
Tommy Tool in the SwampThing costume… that’s merely icing on the cake.
Ban Assault Topiaries NOW!
Urban Camo: Does that makes the urban dwellers animals to be hunted? Or are they enemy combatants?
BOTH, I think.
Where’s Adrienne Barbeau?
The rest of the cast from Swamp Thing showed up.
Yeah pretty much defines the SWAT low speed high drag mentality right there. What a bunch of tools.
They thought the expression was “On Speed, In Drag.”
OMG! That ladder has an assault shotgun! OMG!
Oh wait, it’s just Commando Fife playing dress up again. Whew! That was close. Move along. Nothing to see here.
The need to wear shinny new vehicle colors like the tin man to blend with the vehicles. Must have taken some time to put on the “macho military garb”. The’re a joke trying to play military in a civilian setting, the problem is not the garb it’s the attitude of aggressiveness play war. Incredible, even a squad from the Air Force could wipe out these little boys playing Army in ten minutes.
I wonder if Mr. Ghillie knows he just scratched the sh!t out of his squad car’s paint with that bi-pod he forgot to unfold?
He doesn’t give a rat’s back end-somebody else pays for the fixit stuff.
I don’t know whether to heap on the ridicule or actually feel sorry for these silly window lickers. You’d have to be semi-retarded to come to a gun fight in a parking lot in a ghillie suit. As for all the pointing of guns and over doing the gear; it suggests to me a group of men who seriously doubt their skill and readiness. When you see men who are confident in their abilities they appear considerably more casual and natural than these jokers. A bunch of children playing army is what these guys look like. It’s hard to be intimidated by that.
Inspector Callahan never needed a gillie suit. wtf ? the guy got away because these Rambo’s had to have time to put on their make up an halloweenie suits
I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of overtime hours myself and countless other taxpayers fund for this nonsense?
I am not being a hater but given my current (and most likely future) financial situation, I do not have the money to purchase my LE with the SWAT upgrade.
In the second picture, they’re trying to figure out what to do with a shotgun. The class clown holding the shotgun is pointing as he says “I think this end goes in front”, while the other two look on in befuddlement.
The more we see crap like this, the more we know we have far too many overpaid and under-worked police officers.
What really bothers me about these pictures are two things: the SBS and suppressor. Who here thinks that the full NFA process was followed for either of those? Just another example of one rule for us, another for them.
I swear it’s like all the PD’s from all over the country had them a big ol’ conference call and came up with the idea to raise the bar for asshattery as far as they could. Somebody gotta tell these guys just how stupid they look.
Just Google “IACP” for the asshattery conference venue.
Wait!..this is from Florida? He should hang some oranges off of that thing. That’d be perfect.
I personally sleep in a Ghillie suit just in the event of a home invasion.
I plan to confront them nekkid. I’ll have plenty of time to shoot while they are laughing.
Hopefully they can shoot straighter than the cops in NYC
Wearing military camo patterns is insulting, and screams wannabe. Blue, black or grey BDUs, with PD or SD patches, as someone above mentioned, would work quite well. I wasn’t that long ago that SWAT teams wore exactly that.
Sooooo………….wait. Bigfoot is real? And he’s a cop? In Florida?
Idiot thinks that his popo department is the freakin Army.
these govt terrorists are friggin’ ridiculous.
when the fuck was the last time they EVER had to face a citizen, or even a drug cartel soldiers with force and equipment parity??
this is nothing more than arrested development: no different than delusional NFL douchebag fans donning team jerzees. except their sports regalia don’t ‘kill by accident’
want warzone? go fucking back to Kabul motherfuckers.
so sick and tired of this bullshit “the entire world is a battlefield.”
huh, and here I thought “we have to fight them over there, so we don’t fight them here.” if so, ya fucking failed, miserably: why are you bringing the fight here then, or at least play dress up and pretend like the battlefield is here?
bunch of idiots: have no fucking clue that OBL & Al-CIA-da basically won: they made Amerika into a policestate, and these morons whom the same banks that looted the rest of the citizenry actually delude they’re in the ‘club’ and will have something, when the dust settles. LOLOL. You’re pensions are gone, bitches.
Ach, what the hell, it’s the last entertainment/policestate-porn before the fall.
enjoy it while it lasts, before you repeat the same lines the Nazis monkeys did at the Nuremberg Tribunals: “I was just following orders.”
Don’t be THOSE motherfuckers, po po:
And,,,no one even noticed the giant Multi-cam Drag Bag being worn by the Wookie
Nobody except the whole conversation we had about it about 2/3 of the way down the page. 🙂
Never mind me, I’m a potted plant.
No wonder suspect got way he was dress in normal street cloths blend in well to environment that got way in. Well Palm Beach swat team was in mass looking like bunch walking shrubbery that made them more expose than stiper spin round stiper pole at local strip clubs round there. Oh well those in Palm Beach now know where there tax payer money be spent on.
lolWhy even put on that ghillie jacket? He’s just more bulky now and it offers nothing.
Even if you don’t know what there field uniforms look like you should realize by looking at the vehicles that the officers in camouflage and in the ghillie suit are Fish and WILDLIFE officers that were probably out in the woods or on their way out when they got the call. The officers in all green are Palm Beach County Sheriffs SWAT, that is their working uniform minus the heavy body armor which they keep in their vehicles. Those would be the response teams that have offices closest to North Palm Beach and they would have gotten an all hands call for the bank robbery which means that any State or local officer that was close is required to respond unless they are already tied up with something important.
Joke’s on them. The robbery took place at a different branch, located nearby. They all look the same.
Why are so many of the officer’s faces covered? Gestapo tactics!
That’s so that nobody can take a phone-cam pic of their face and plaster it all over twitter, putting them at risk of getting capped by some actual nutcase.
Maybe they’re embarrassed to be seen in public dressed like that… but I doubt so.
I know I would be in that situation.
Go away. Now. Just GO AWAY.