There’s a rumor flying around the internet: the folks at ICE (the Department of Homeland Security / Office of Customs and Border Protection / Immigration and Customs Enforcement sub group) is about to follow the U.S. military and issue agents the SIG SAUER P320.
ICE’s current duty gun is the H&K P2000 chambered in .40 S&W. They use a number of other firearms as well, including the SIG SAUER P229 DAK (also in .40 S&W).
According to a post on Pistol Forum reportedly showing an internal ICE website announcing the change, the P320 will be replacing the P229 DAK in CBP’s arsenal, not necessarily replacing the P2000 as the primary duty weapon.
According to the original poster CBP had done their homework on the new firearm:
The ICE live fire testing involved 10 guns, each firing 10,000 rounds in 250 round strings for a total of 100,000 rounds. 5 guns were tested with WML mounted and 5 without. Combined with the DOD MHS testing I’d say the design is proven. Whether AIG can maintain QC is another question.
Early 320’s had some issues – which were addressed. Barrel hood wear was an issue on very early (first six months of production) Full Sixe models. It was addressed, as were the guns with high POI.
In addition to external changes to the trigger and takedown lever, SIG strengthened the striker springs on all 320’s and changed the relief cuts on the Compacts to add mass to the slide.
TTAG was unable to confirm the reports through other channels, but we’re working on it.
The forum claims 9mm.
If that is true, what is fedzilla going to do with the eleventy billion rounds of .40 S&W hollowpoint that they
hoardedpurchased about two years ago?
Off to the incinerator.
There are still thousands of .40 guns in service. The USCG, Border Patrol, and CBP Officers all carry .40. I’m sure there are more agencies that do as well. When you factor in quarterly qualifications, and new officers going through the academy, that massive pile of ammo won’t last too long. Besides, ICE isn’t switching overnight. So, they still have about 10,000 officers that will be shooting .40 for the next year at least.
If we’re talking about ICE, I’d say we drive all the 40 cal & be P320s right across the border to Mexico. That’ll show ’em!
Just to follow-up on the story, late though be it necessary. The Article list ICE under CBP, so not true. ICE is a separate sub agency under DHS similar to CBP. Two very different missions.
CBP houses Office of Field Operations (OFO) and Border Patrol (OBP)
ICE houses Enforcement & Removal Operations (ERO) as well as Homeland Security Investigations (HSI)
Terrible choice. With that ultra-high Sig bore axis, they’re going to be shooting over Mexicans heads every time.
Sarcasm or nonsense?
That’s not how bore axis works. I used to think that until I shot the P320 for myself.
Officially: What caliber?
Can’t see them stocking both the .40 and 9mm.
At this rate I might have to stop carrying my early model p320 and save it as a collectors item.
I work for ICE and this is the rumor i heard too. I will stick with my Glock 17/TLR1-HL.
Don’t knock it ’til you try it.
ICE and CBP are two completely separate agencies. ICE issues the P229R DAK. ICE officers can choose from a small group of firearms to purchase on their own, and carry as a duty or back-up weapon. CBP issues the P2000. I have not seen any information that they are changing firearms. ICE is the only agency that I know of that has made an official announcement to switch to the P320.
This is correct.
I do believe that FAM has also gone to the P320 from the P229. I just hope BOP can get rid of these dang RUger P89’s.
I just talked to my friend who works for ICE and this is absolutely true about the switch
Ummm… any chance of we lowly peasants being able to get our hands on some surplus HKs cheap?
ICE only issues Sig 229 DAK’s, Firearms said they will probably melt them down.
Additional evidence that serious a housecleaning of ALL Obumer appointees and hires of the last 8 years must happen. ALL need to be fired.
I dont think it was an Obama appointee. I think that’s what they away do with the the used firearms.
CBP is the agency that issues the H&K. They are not part of this contract, and don’t appear to be changing firearms anytime soon. ICE is the agency that is changing to the P320, and dumping the P229. Regardless, I don’t think the Federal Government has ever allowed duty handguns to be sold on the private market. Besides, most of the guns in inventory have had a lot of rounds through them, and don’t always get treated all that well.
I believe you are right about the feds not generally selling off firearms to the private market but there are some exceptions. Several years ago, Bud’s Gun Shop had some CPO Sig P250’s in .40S&W with an extra barrel chambered for .357 Sig. The story was that they had been used in trials by the FBI.
They were so cheap that I bought two. One looked to have minimal wear but the second set had no signs of use at all. I figured it was a cheap way to try out the P250. I’m glad they were cheap. They were okay shooters but I never did like the weird trigger.
You’re probably right. But, I suspect those Sigs were submitted to the FBI to test, and never officially were FBI property. They were most likely returned to Sig after the test, and Sig is the one who sold them on the private market. Having worked for the Government, I can tell you Government doesn’t do anything that makes sense. ICE could easily sell off it’s duty guns, and recoup most of the cost of the new guns, but that makes too much sense. It’s just better to melt down the guns and sell the scrap metal at a loss. If you really want to see how wasteful government is, go to a local DRMO, or DLA, and look at the acres and acres of brand new gear being sold off for pennies on the dollar to a private company who “auctions” it for a profit.
Now we know why fedzilla ordered 2 billion rounds of ammunition.
I have two Sig P320’s, a Carry (.357 Sig) and a full size RX (9mm). Although they are relatively inexpensive (for the features and quality), these pistols have proven to be more accurate and reliable than some of the higher end Sig’s and other makes I own.
The Carry in particular is a superb pistol for concealed carry. Not too large, not too small, with the potent .357 Sig round it’s ideal for my purposes.
I can see why the military and agencies such as ICE are switching to the P320.
My p320 carry is easily my most versatile handgun. I can carry it open or concealed equally as well.
I’m more interested in the changes they did with the striker springs, how can I get a new one, I have an early production full size that has went click vice clickBANG. Putting the same rounds in my VP9, BANG. Primers were hit, enough that the range master agree they should have went BANG, before tossing them in the live round failure bin, fed them to the VP9 just to see if it was pistol vice ammo related. Anyone have part numbers and a source of the new slide release and take down pin too? Thanks in advance.
All new grip modules include the new slide release.
I would send you gun in if you are having issues with failures to fire. I have an early gun (in the first 550 of the B line) that has thousands of rounds with no issue.
The striker spring wore put on my first P320 at about 10000 rounds. I have not had that issue with the other two P320s I bought later. Other than that, these have been the most reliable stock pistols I have owned, and I have a lot of pistols. It took about a month to get the part from Sig. If you shoot a lot, I recommend getting an extra set of springs.
OK, I’m no where near your round count with the P320. Mine is within the first 1600 if they started with 0001. I do have a .40 X-Change for it about a year later, I’ll have to compare striker springs. I did swap in a Apex Tactical flat trigger, like it over the stock curved one.
Alright, I got to ask…what is up with everyone choosing this firearm all of the sudden. That has got to be one of the lowest grip to bore ratio I’ve ever seen. Is it the modularity alone that is driving this? Flame on, not trolling, serious question. I’m just having a hard time wrapping my head around this.
From what I’ve read, Army went with it because it shot and handled about even with the Glocks that were competing for the MHS competition, but the extra modularity and the supposedly insanely low prices won it out over the Glocks. I’m guessing the modularity is won it over with ICE.
I promise you the modularity has nothing to do with it. ICE will not allow agents to change around barrels and grips. They’ll give the guys a box with a gun and mags, and that’s the way it has to stay.
They might actually hook us up. Training and gear issuance has gotten a lot better the last couple years.
I hope you’re right. I keep forgetting we have a President who supports our mission, instead of one who tried to lock us in the basement for 8 years.
Modularity is not a plus for agents, not directly anyway. It’s a plus for armorers. Say the agency wants to improve accuracy by agents by improving fit in the hand. Agents are assessed and fitted for small, medium, or large frames and issued the proper size. The frame itself is a $50 part that the “firearm” drops into. They can just have a supply on hand from Sig for fitting and replacement as necessary.
1) It’s really easy to clean.
2) The modularity makes it really easy to replace busted parts – the plastic grip is just a piece of plastic (vs Glock where it is legally the firearm).
3) It’s pretty cheap compared to other Sig products.
Bore axis is an internet boogie man. The SIG 320 is a very similar bore axis to a 1911, yet you don’t have everyone on the internet complaining about the bore axis on that gun. And it is only one of many factors that are involved with muzzle flip or perceived recoil.
This bore axis thing is getting way out of control. If you learn to shoot properly, and practice, it’s not an issue. Granted there are some garbage firearms on the market, but if you’re shooting a reputable gun, I just don’t see how in reality it’s a problem. Maybe it’s just a keyboard commando thing.
Good on both of you. I’ve said the same thing and was crucified.
It was kind of pathetic.
The only guns where I personally notice any benefit from lower bore axis, is heavily recoiling revolvers. As in, the lcr flips harder and faster than the mp340 of similar weight, when shooting +p 38s. And, the Scandium N frame .357 TRR flips harder than a similar weight and barrel length L frame.
For autos, I simply don’t notice. Really fast, competitive guys, do. Hence prefer CZs to Sigs if they shoot DASA.
Bottom line, most professionals that have shot the P320 really like it. Most of the people complaining are either internet commandos, or simply ones that complain about everything. I haven’t shot one, and to be frank, I didn’t pay much attention to the gun until it started getting all the headlines. But it looks to be a sleeper hit.
Try one at the range, and you will know. But be warned, the P320 is an evil mistress with cookies. I have seen a lot of people switch to the P320 after test firing one of mine.
I predict there will be a run on this pistol following the DoD and ICE announcements. There is no rugged striker fired pistol out there with as good a trigger. The modularity makes it very practical. While the bore axis is slightly more than some others, the great trigger makes up for it on the target. There is a new X version that has a grip frame module cut to provide a higher grip and thus slightly lower the bore axis. It also holds 2 more rounds while not substantially changing the size. Rumors are that might be part of the new contract.
Good gun, if 9mm wrong caliber, know a Guy that capped a VC 4 times in the chest at about 15 yards didn’t slow him down, finally one got to the brain pan at about 1 foot from bayonet bait! also know the guy switched to a .45 maybe 2 shots on a drug induced body!
Actually two in the heart and one in the forehead gives a pretty good stop, also Adrenalin dumps in the bullet receiving body does strange things, like take a load of buck shot in the chest run a block then die really tired!
Why would they go with a gun from a manufacturer’s first attempt at striker fire? I don’t like it..